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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  May 5, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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er. you can tweet the show. please be sure to join us again tomorrow right here in the situation room. you can watch us live or dvr the show so you won't miss a moment. thanks for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the "the situation room." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> "outfront" tonight, breaking news. baltimore's police commissioner blind sided by the prosecutor's charges against his officers. why was he told the news ten minutes before she announced it to the nation? >> plus more breaking news. the terror attack on a prophet muhammad cartoon contest. was this the first isis attack on american soil. >> and the death of dave goldberg how did a run on the treadmill turn fatal? let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, we begin with breaking news. we have learned baltimore's
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police commissioner was kept out of the loop by the prosecutor. learning about murder and manslaughter charges against six of his officers. only minutes before they were announced on national television. in his first interview since freddie gray's death, police commissioner anthony bats told our evan perez that the charges caught him completely by surprise. >> i found out that the state attorney was going on and what she was going to present probably about ten minutes before she went on. she gave me a phone call and told me what she was about to do and that she was going on live. she told me what the charges were. >> what were your first words out of your mouth when you heard that? >> i don't want to get into that so much. i could say that i was probably surprised, you know by the information that i heard. >> batts also admitted his officers were unprepared for the protests and riots that engulfed baltimore. evan is out front now. an exclusive interview and major, major news there. finding out just minutes, i
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believe he told you ten minutes before she told the world. why does the commissioner think she didn't tell him? >> well erin he was being very diplomatic when he said that he thought the prosecutor was simply trying to show some separation from the police department. but there's no doubt what you heard just now from him was also a sign of his displeasure. the fact that from a public safety standpoint you know he wanted to make sure his officers were ready to see what reaction there was on the streets of baltimore when she made this announcement and to give him only minutes was something that he just did not really find helpful at all. >> all right, so commissioner batts also in your interview admitted his force made mistakes. that's crucial because it was that admission when he said for example that should have reached medical help may have emboldened and enabled her to go ahead with charges. what did he say to you about
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that that there were mistakes made? >> yes, he said the freddie gray case certainly set back the department. you know it's something he's been working on for a couple years. he's been here two and a half years and trying to rebuild this department that has problems that go back decades. here's how he describes the problem as he sees it. >> there is a lack of trust within this community, period bottom line. that's going to take healing. that's going to take us acknowledging as a police department not just here in baltimore but law enforcement as a whole, that we've been part of the problem. >> and erin to hear commissioner batts say he knows that he has to go into the community there and rebuild trust, he also has to rebuild trust with the state prosecutor's office so clearly he has his work cut out for him. >> evan perez, thank you very much with that exclusive interview and major headline that he found out just ten minutes before. joining me now, bill stanton, our political commentator, mark lamont hill also a professor at
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moore moorehouse and on bempt mpt t. news. and paul martin also a former prosecutor. all the angles of the story right here at the table. bill you're closest to me. you heard evan reporting that commissioner batts told him he got a call ten minutes before. she didn't decide to press charges ten minutes before. she decided well before that. are you surprised? >> well i'm surprised, but i'm not surprised, because i think what we're seeing here is law play out but also politics play out. it's highly unusual, the fact that she just gives him a ten-minute heads up no chance to be prepared. it's highly unusual that she's not going through a grand jury bypassing that. so all these things are adding up. not really looking good for the prosecutor in my opinion. >> and paul you've been on both sides as a defense attorney and also a prosecutor. i know when you were talking to our producer you heard ten minutes. your initial words were that's disrespectful. >> that is disrespectful, probably to the commissioner. i understand the nature of why
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the prosecutor would do it. listen there's -- >> why would she do it? she doesn't trust him, she thought he would leak it. >> there hey be issues of leaking. she wanted to be the individual to make the statement and not come from some underling or be leaked to the press. would she have preferred to make it earlier? i'm sure she would have. >> she's charging them with murder. this is not a small thing to wait on. >> that's why i think she should not notify the police department. >> you thought she did the right thing in not telling frankly the guy responsible for peace on the streets afterwards and all these six men and women report to. you think she did the right thing? >> absolutely. i think it comes down to the context and the nature of the decision. had they decided not to tell the officers you give people a heads up. i was in ferguson when they decided not to indict. what you saw was bedlam on the streets. this time they knew. it was like fourth of july in
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baltimore when they announced there were going to be charges. we saw leaks many people believe came from the police department about the nature of the injuries about the guy having spinal injuries and they didn't trust the police. >> i hear all of you, isn't, paul part of the problem if you want to say now we're going to respect the system and have this go through the system that one way to do that would be to not play the same games? don't wait until ten minutes before? >> i don't think she was playing games. i think she was afraid about leaks, afraid about the information being decimated in the improbable way. this investigation was conducted by her office. it wasn't conducted by the police department. so as a courtesy would she have preferred to notify him earlier? procedure, but what was best in her situation -- >> you're using the word disrespectful, but you understand. >> what we're seeing is a lack of trust. what i'm hearing is the complete lack of trust. the d.a.'s office has no trust whatsoever with the police commissioner or its department.
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so then how does the police department trust the d.a.'s office? >> that may come from earlier, from the leaks. >> i think it's a question of how do we restore public trust in all of us if you're the prosecutor's office. and having too cozy of a relationship between the prosecutor's office and the police department is one of the problems that people have had in the past. this separation i think establishes that. i don't think it's disrespectful. and i think this is the opposite of business as usual. they're saying we're no longer going to do that. >> there's also though of course the perception of a cozy relationship. you're talking about between the prosecutor and police but also between possibly the prosecutor in the case and the freddie gray attorney. their attorney is a big sponsor of hers financially. was a chair of her transition campaign. there's been criticism of that the police union has asked her to recuse herself. she has said she's not going to do that. here's the question. did she feel pressure for the charges? from that but also from the people on the street? she didn't have a choseice.
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she had to charge. >> i would ask the council, as a defense turn wouldn't there be a problem with a rush to judgment and making such aggressive statements that we will bring the people to justice, just a day after the police department brings the report to her office. >> what should the prosecutor do? >> the media is saying rush to judgment. we do not know what information the prosecutor had at the time she decided to charge the individuals. we don't know the statements the police officers made we don't know the frezic evidence. i'm not so sure it's a rush to judgment. they may have had to address the situation before further leaks went out. >> it's unclear whether it's a rush to judgment. >> there's no reason to believe that it is and i'm not sure why we would assume it is. every major shooting like this forget about the local everyday ones that happen all the time i'm talking about the ones that make the news. there's a clamor for an arrest for an indictment, and they don't get it. it seems to me she's bucking the trend of most prosecutors. even black prosecutors.
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i don't think it's race here. she had an boons of evidence that she felt was compelling. >> is there fair to say there was racial pressure? if she had not charged, the anger on the street might have been overwhelming and the calculus may have been safer to charge maybe even overcharge but don't let them wait. don't let there be violence on the streets. >> i don't know all the evidence but based on what we have seen this isn't fuzzy like michael brown. this isn't debatable as george zimmerman. it's certainly compelling. the guy could run and then he couldn't. he was arrested there was no charge. he didn't have an illegal weapon. there's no reason for me to believe she was charging for political reasons. >> now they're saying the weapon may have been illegal in baltimore city but not in maryland. >> it's still an incident in the stop. they didn't see the weapon and chase him. my point is there is nothing here to make me believe she acted out of politics and not out of a sense of duty. when she says i'm going to bring these people to justice, that's
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what you're supposed to do as a prosecutor. the problem is we're so used to prosecutors not doing that that we act shocked when they say we're going to prosecutor these people and bring them to justice. >> i applaud your intellectual honestly you believe it's not race. i agree with you. >> you dobt think it's race. >> her decision not to charge isn't about race. >> i don't think this is necessarily about race. i think if a cop is bad, he's not a cop, he's criminal and that will play out. what i do think is happening is there is tremendous political pressure. what happens if there is an acquittal? i think there is tremendous pressure and is the law enforcement or is the judicial system going to be held hostage based on the court of public opinion and the fear of rioting. >> before we go and this is part of the problem here there's clearly an issue in this country, but you don't want to adjudicate that through one case. you don't say we're going to convict someone, and again, we don't know the facts, but no one
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wants a wrongful conviction because it satisfies people. that doesn't solve people. we haven't gotten one here we haven't gotten one here we finally deserve justice as if everyone knows the right and wrong answer. that's a dangerous position to be in. >> don't think that's what the prosecutor in this case is doing. she's evaluating the case for what it is. she charged officers black and white, and i think during the process we'll find out what the facts, what the circumstances are. i don't think this is the mantra for us to get justice through the last 200 years of being stepped on our necks, to be quite frank with you. >> i appreciate all of you very much coming on. a great conversation. thank you. next breaking news. we're learning one of the gunman who attacked a prophet muhammad cartoon event in texas was in contact with isis before. it could be a huge development. >> and dave goldberg was only 47 years old, married to the famous facebook executive sheryl sandberg.
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how did he die in a gym jogging on a treadmill? and hillary clinton moments ago calling for a path to full citizenship for undocumented immigrants. the only other woman in the race will be my guest coming up "outfront." listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. ohhhhhhh. the sunshine vitamin! ensure now has 2x more vitamin d to support strong bones. ensure. take life in.
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breaking news at this hour. a u.s. official telling cnn now that two terrorists who attacked a muhammad art exhibit in texas
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were more than just inspired by isis. at least one of the terrorists according to officials was exchanging messages with a well known isis recruit leading up to the atab. that could be a very significant development. not just a lone wolf operation but maybe something more coordinated. isis also claiming today that it was behind what would have been the first isis attack on american soil. an attack the white house today called a terrorist act. jim sciutto is "outfront," and what are you learning? because this obviously could be significant. we heard about people who, you know are inspired by isis and then they act in the name of isis. this could botentially be getting marching orders from isis leaders. >> picture you have have pure inspiration, a lone wolf acting on his own, all the way up to getting command and control from abroad. we're in between, closer to inspiration, but there was connectivity between these two. there was twitter messages,
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tweeting back and forth between them. there were individual twitter messages from one of the againman talking about the ease of traveling to syria to fight. they were certainly on isis' radar screen here and that's why one official describing to me how this is more than just inspiration, more than just a lone wolf acting entirely on his own. today, isis took responsibility for the garland, texas, shooting. the first attack it has claimed on u.s. soil. u.s. officials are now probing connections between one of the texas gunman elton simpson, and isis. to determine to what degree the attack was directed from abroad. though there is no evidence the terror group gave the gunmen specific instructions one u.s. official tells cnn the shooting was, quote, certainly more than just inspiration by isis. >> because of the quick and professional and brave work of local law enforcement officers
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and attempted terrorist attack was foiled. >> the attack fits a well-known pattern of isis recruitment and incitement encouraging sympathizers via a sophisticated social media campaign to join the fight in syria or if they cannot, carry out terror attacks closer to home. simpson apparently had public exchanges on twitter with this prominent british born isis fighter about the muhammad cartoon event in garland. and another person tied to the somali based terror group al shabaab. >> i don't know you can say isis said go to garland, texas, and attack that location and that activity but they're part of the psychological approach to this that causes people to be radicalized. >> those who knew simpson and his fellow gunman nadir soofi, tell cnn they never suspected they were terrorists. >> they didn't show any signs of radicalization or any signs of even thinking about those things
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in that manner. so when that happens, it just shocks you. >> it's interesting, erin a senior intelligence official was describing to me the other day about how prospective jihadis often shop around in his words, for a terror group. here you have a case of one of these gunman who was at first reaching out to al shabaab, talk of going perhaps to somalia to fight. he had tweeted his support for anwar al locky in gemmen, and then he makes these connections with isis and carries out the attack perhaps in their name. doesn't mean that he had hard operational ties. never traveled to syria to train with them, but it shows purely by social media, purely by inspiration a group like isis can extends its reach all the way to the u.s. i can tell you from intel officials it's this attack that are most likely to happen on u.s. soil. >> thank you very much jim sciutto. "outfront" now, jim jones,
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director of security policy at rand and phil mudd. thanks to both. phil when you hear american officials believe there's more to an attack than two men inspired by isis athing in the name of isis what does it say to you about what's just changed, about the role of isis? could that mean isis was funding this? >> look how much we've changed in the last 15 years. we start with 19 hijackers on 911 woo were wholly owned by al qaeda, trained, funded, directed. we go to 2009 to detroit, an underwear bomber not affil yalted with what we call core al qaeda or al qaeda central, but with a group in yemen that had a al qaeda ideology. fast forward to 2015. we have moved so far down this realm, this kind of counterterrorism revolution, we have individuals who have never been part of a group, never part of an affiliated organization in a place like yemen or somalia
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who say i like the ideology i'm not familiar with the group. i've not joined the group, but just because of the ideology i'm going to get a vest and a weapon and attack. that's in summary what we have seen over 15 years of this campaign. >> it's a frightening change. seth an official is telling cnn one of the gunman elton simpson, i'll show his picture, may have communicated with another isis member a british guy. these messages are said to have taken place right before the attack. american intelligence saw the messages. they were aware of the messages but they weren't able to stop the attack. how troubling is that? >> i actually went through a range of the tweets from elton simpson. i think it is a challenge, though because if you look at his past tweets at simpson's past tweets one of the perpetrators he's talking about these kinds of attacks both in the west and elsewhere. what's difficult is to respond quickly once he really starts to get violent. i mean he starts talking about
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the charlie hebdo attack in paris. i think from an intelligence standpoint what is difficult is to move that quickly and to arrest him when it's not entirely clear he's going to do it. just calling for this kind of attack doesn't necessarily mean that you can go and arrest him. i think that's actually the challenge. and we have a lot of people on social media that are saying these kinds of things erin. >> phil this is a point you've made before. there are a lot of people on social media. right? so they can't -- you say, okay, there were these tweets out there. how could they have not stopped these guys? a point you make on this show give me them i'll give you 10,000 others. how are they supposed to go who is going to do something. >> let's do the after action. you walk in the room with the fbi or the cia. you have this event. you're going to direct a task force to say we want to look through all cases. meanwhile, while we have a few hundred kids from canada and the united states who today are
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going to syria and iraq we want to look through cases three, four five years old, thousands of them and try to discern which one of those kids is going to have a switch turned on that says today i'm going to pick up a weapon. when you do the one individual case it looksey. the guy looks easy. he's talking about "charlie hebdo." go in reverse, find a couple thousand and try to predict which one is going to turn tomorrow. that's not doable not possible. >> and seth to the point phil is making one of these attackers, elton simpson, was having an exchange in which "charlie hebdo" came up. someone tweeted, the brothers did their part. it's time for the brothers in the u.s. to do their part. after this tweet exchange elton simpson travels to texas. is there a line? should officials have stopped him, or is that again, asking too much? >> again, it's thought clear how much they were following at this point, but i do think it does become more important to be identifying triggers for these individuals. tweeting is becoming very serious concern, but to add one
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final comment to phil's you know, it's one thing to be monitoring these people and what they're tweeted, but it's another to put the 24/7 resources and fbi team to cover them. i mean that's a lot of resources for one individual let alone 1,000. we don't have those numbers at field offices across the united states. >> all right, thanks very much to both of you. and next the husband of facebook executive sheryl sandberg dies after running on a treadmill. what happened? and carly fiorina laid off 20,000 workers in her time as a major high-tech c oh oe in america and now she wants to be president. how will she explain this to photoers? she'll begin "outfront" tonight. carly feoiorina is my guest. we never thought we'd be farming wind out here. it's not just building jobs here it's helping our community. siemens location here has just received a major order of wind turbines.
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tonight, we're learning new details about the sudden death of dave goldberg his of facebook executive and billionaire sheryl sandberg. he was only 47 years old, father of two. he died in what appears to be a horrifically freak accident in a family vacation in mexico. local authorities say he fell off a treadmill. today, friends from silicon
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valley and hollywood paid tribute to him. ben affleck, george lucas, and mark zuckerberg were there. >> my closest adviser is my wife. >> facebook executive sheryl sandberg called him her best friend and the love of her life. >> i have an awesome husband. we are at 50/50. >> the life of her other half surveymonkey ceo david goldberg was cut short by what mexican authorities say was a freak accident at the gym. resulting in severe head trauma. the family checked into the exclusive hotel near the mexican resort town of puerto vallarta last thursday according to the state attorney general. a day later, authorities say goldberg was exercising on a treadmill when he slipped, fell and hit the back right side of his head creating a three centimeter gash. >> people can have fairly small
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external injuries especially to the skull and to the scalp, and that can bleed quite significantly, and it also indicates there's some type of internal injury to the brain. >> investigators say goldberg went to the gym at about 4:00 p.m. his brother robert found him on the floor in a pool of blood two and a half hours later. he was still alive. his brother called for help but by the time the silicon valley exec got to the hospital it was too late. he was pronounced dead according to the attorney general spokesperson. >> the timing is absolutely important. studies have shown that repeatedly you have to get the patients to the hospital the well equipped hospital as soon as possible. >> goldberg's sudden death has shocked many around the country, including president obama who took to facebook saying in part david goldberg embodies the definition of a real leader someone who was always looking
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for ways to empower others. we're hortbroken by him leaving us far soo soon. the woman known for leaning in has not made a public comment, only responding to president obama on facebook. thank you, president obama for this beautiful tribute and for your friendship to our family. dave goldberg admired you for your leadership passion, and your deep love of sports. now about the investigation, the state attorney general telling me this afternoon that an autopsy was performed, that foul play was not found, and that it was pretty much deemed an accident. and that the family didn't ask for further investigation. erin. >> thank you very much. just unbelievable story. now, forensic scientific lawrence kobilinsky and a doctor an an stheethologist join me. let me start with you. people hear this and it's shake shocking and terrifying because it's something everybody does a lot of days in their lives. how can someone die from falling
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off a treadmill? >> well there are a lot of possibilities. one is it could have been a cardiac event that caused him to lose consciousness and then he would fall off the treadmill and hit something. and gyms are often made in ways where you can hit solid objects and cause gashes. but no matter what the cause, there really are three real points that your viewers, every viewer should take home. >> yes. >> one is that only 5% of sudden cardiac arrests are due to exercise. so it's rare. exercise is really protective. this is not a reason to stop exercise. you should keep at it. the second thing is when you're on a treadmill or any exercise equipment, you're on a piece of equipment that can be dangerous. so i often work on a treadmill desk. and i do 3.3 miles per hour 2 degrees centigrade elevation, if you will while talking on conference calls. if you forget you're on the
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treadmill, it will flip you off and you can hit something. >> yes. i think everybody has had that sort of moment. >> you have to think about what's behind you and plan for it. the third real key point is when you travel, think about emergencies and what you want to do with emergencies if something happens. so that you're prepared for it. >> and larry, what do you think happened? >> well i agree with everything the doctor said. i think it's very possible if not probable that he died as a result of a cardiac issue. that could happen if there is a major coronary vessel that is obstructed. >> in other words, not by falling off the treadmill. >> not by falling off the treadmill. it could be other reasons like the enlargement of the left ventricle. you get an electrical conductivity problem, and essentially, a person, the vent ventricle starts to fib ruilate
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unorganized contractions and you fall off the treadmill. >> the treadmill is secondary. the other issue is he was found on the floor by a brernl they were down there for some family event in mexico two and a half hours after he left his room. had he been in a public gym, they had a private gym at their proposal had he been at a public gym and someone saw him, is it possible he could have been saved in. >> if it was a matter of defib rlting him to save him, you might have a defibrillator, if he fell and then hit his head and it was trauma to the head he certainly could have been brought to a hospital if it was a public setting and people would have been around. >> all right, thanks very much to both of you. absolutely tragic story. "outfront" next breaking news. hillary clinton just moments ago calling for a path to full citizenship for undocumented immigrants. well you see the other woman on the screen the other woman
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running for president this time around. presidential hopeful carly fiorina will be my guest next. >> and is the federal government planning to invade texas? you think, erin have you gone deep to the world of crazy conspiracy theories? i have not, the texas governor is ordering state troops to keep watch. the promise of the cloud is that every organization has unlimited access to information, no matter where they are. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power to instantly deliver critical information to people, whenever they need it.
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breaking news at this moment. you're looking at a live picture of hillary clinton at a campaign event in las vegas. just moments ago, she made a significant announcement on immigration. let me play it for you. >> we can't wait any longer for a path to full and equal citizenship. now, this is where i differ with everybody on the republican side. make no mistakes. today, not a single republican candidate announced or potential is clearly and consistently supporting a path to citizenship. not one. when they talk about legal status that is code for second class status.
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>> "outfront" tonight, carly feo fiorina fiorina, the first republican woman presidential candidate to jump into the 2016 race and author of the new book "rising to the challenge." and she joins me now. great to have you with me. you just heard hillary clinton. she then continues to say, and i quote her at this event in las vegas where she's literally signing things autographs right now. as president, i would go further than president obama, and of course his executive order allows citizenship to the children of undocumented workers. she said she would go further. what do you say? >> well unfortunately, i think she's pandering. i think we need to start with some basics. you know we need to secure the border. it hasn't been secured under gorgeous w. george w. bush or barack obama. it needs to be secured because the problem keeps getting worse. by the way, we should saciru secure the northern border as well as the southern border. drugs are coming across the
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northern border. our enemies know our border is porous. we have to fix the legal immigration system which has been broken for decades. >> this is something as a former ceo you know a lot about. i guess the basic question you can talk to in a way no one else can, democrat or republican running for president, is the economics. you have more than 11 million people living in the united states most of whom are fully committed to the country and have lives here for a while. sending them all home is not a practical option. they live here. the argument is if they are legalized, it is better for the economy. you're the only person with the standing to have a point of view on that. is it better for the economy? >> i think that's totally unclear. i also think the people who worked hard to earn citizenship the right way are fully committed to this country. i mean i know a lot of people and you do as well who took the oath who studied up who said you know i'm going to earn the privilege of citizenship. and people who came here illegally and who have stayed here illegally have not done any of that. >> would you send them home?
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that doesn't make sense. >> i agree with that but i think first we have to secure the border. then we have to fix the legal immigration system, and finally for those who have come here illegally and stayed here illegal and haven't committed crimes they can earn in my view to a path to legal status. i think it isn't fair to say to people who have worked hard to earn the privilege of citizenship, never mind that you played by the rules. people who didn't get to have the same privileges as you do. >> you're going head on against her. you used her image actually even in your announcement video for president, and you talked about her many times in the past. let me give a taste to our views. >> i'm running for president. >> our founders never intended us to have a professional political class. like hillary clinton. i, too, have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles around the globe. but unlike her, i have actually accomplished something. >> she wants to talk about the war on women. she wants to talk about being
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the first woman president. it's just with me she can't do that. so what she's going to have to talk about is her record. >> it's you and her. the two women. you have something no other republican candidate has, right? your gender. do the optics of woman versus woman help you? >> well i have many things that other republican candidates don't have. my resume is totally different. i'm not a professional politician. >> right, all of that being said and that being a fair point, but you do benefit from the fact that there's only two women, and one of them happens to be the most famous politician in the world. >> yeah it's true. look she's a hard working, intelligent wunt but she's also a personification of political class. there are republicans who are members of the professional political class, but hillary clinton will be the nominee for the democratic party. she is who i, if i'm the nominee of the republican party, will run against. so then i think we'll be able to have a conversation about the issues and about track record
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and accomplishments and the difference between our policies. and in the end, isn't that the ground on which elections should be fought? >> it absolutely is. when you bring up accomplishments, this is something you talk about in the book leadership being the ceo of hp. let's get the good out here. the revenues doubled, the growth rate triples. those are things you're proud of. i, of course was a financial journalist. i covered when you were fired from hp. you were known as a ceo who spearheaded a bad deal. some of the headlines when your got fired. why carly's big bet is failing. usa today, can fiorina trump competition for worst tech ceo title. and i'll quote, nobody likes carly's leadership. they had lost all faith in her. how do you convince people your record is successful? >> in business facts matter a whole lot more than headlines.
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the conventional wisdom is so frequently wrong. these are the same reporters who said that consolidation in the technology industry wasn't happening. it clearly was. these are the same reporters in the technology industry who said that a diversified tech portfolio would never succeed. it clearly did. years later, it was clear that the merger was a good idea. but the facts are clear. during the deepest technology recession in 25 years fought only did we do all the things you talk pded about, but we tripled the level of patent invoigz, we went from being behind in product category to leading. the only way you succeed is by leading, not lagging. if a leader listened to conventional wisdom they would never change the wisdom of things for the better. i was part of a boardroom brawl. i have been open about that. >> that's true. >> of course the headlines were what the headlines were. but the facts are also what the facts are. and i continue to be very proud
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of the people of hewlett-packard and what we accomplished. and the facts and the record are clear. >> in february you told cnn and i'll quote you, hp requires executive decision making. the presidency is about executive decision making. you were responsible for layoffs. >> and job creation as well. >> 30,000 layoffs for a ceo can be something to be proud of. it helps your stock pice. but in politics it's livelihoods that were lost and people are going to care about that. >> i really get so tired of the characterization of chief executives as liking to do layoffs. i managed through the worst technology recession in 25 years. every other technology company laid people off. it's the worst thing a ceo can do is have to say to someone, you don't have a job. but in very tough times, remember the nasdaq just recovered 15 years later to its
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dotcom highs. you look at every other tech company in that time cisco, microsoft, apple, ibm, everyone had to manage through tough times. i think that's honestly what distinguishes leadership. there are sometimes very tough choices that have to be made. but make no mistake. there is no more difficult decision for a chief executive than to let people go. >> and before we go i want to ask you about the story in texas. obviously, the president now calling this an attempted terror attack. people trying to attack an exhibit where they were showing cartoons of the prophet muhammad. pamela geller is the event organizer. >> we should be able to have this conversation. we can't have an event discussing or showing muhammad cartoons or a muhammad play? this is america. this is not saudi arabia. >> that's what she said. she also is behind an antiislam ad campaign that i spoke to her about a couple years ago that appears in subways and buses which said quote, yesterday's
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mot moterate is today's headline. there is free speech and then there is hate. just because you can doesn't mean you should. many conservatives say what she's been doing is wrong. where do you stand? >> it clearly was provocative just like white supremacist protesting is provocative, yet be we do protect free speech. i'm pleased the president called it what it is which is an attempted act of terror. in other acts he hasn't been willing to call it what it is. he said the attack on a jewish grocery store was a random act. it clearly wasn't. the beheading of christians or people who are the wrong sect of islam is clearly not random and neither was this terrorist act. so we can say that this was a provocative gathering. i think that's true. i think it's fair. but it never justifies this kind of terror attack and we should call it what it is a terror attack. >> should she have done that though what she did, pamela
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geller? should she have held a cartoon contest contest? >> a lot of people do things in this country i don't agree with and i don't approve with. but nevertheless in this country, they're free to do it. >> thank you very much carly fiorina. i appreciate your time. now running for president in the 2016 rasz. next texas troopers ordered to keep a close watch on military exercises. they actually think that the united states you know, federal forces could be invading texas. this is a real story, and it's next. e have a very special guest. come on out, flo! [house band playing] you have anything to say to flo? nah, i'll just let the results do the talking. [crowd booing] well, he can do that. we show our progressive direct rate and the rates of our competitors even if progressive isn't the lowest. it looks like progressive is not the lowest! ohhhh! when we return we'll find out whether doug is the father. wait, what?
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it is the-is the pentagon trying to take over texas? you have not tuned into some crazy conservative web-log? no. some people think they are. they think a multi state exercise is set up to exercise marshal law in the state. the governor has order the state guard in texas to keep an eye on these activities. the former governor rick perry is doubtful and i quote, civilian leadership you can question that but not the men and women in uniform. barbara starr is out front. >> by directing the state guard to monitor the operations. >> don't mess with texas is the message to the pentagon. abbott called out his state guard to keep an eye on a u.s. special operations forces
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exercise called jade helm 15. it is an exercise some believe is a plan for a military takeover of the lone star state. >> it is texas. there is no texas takeover. the united states government already controls it. >> the governor said it is no joke. he wants to make sure texans constitutional rights and private property rights and civil liberties will not be infringed during the upcoming military war game which involved 1200 troops, including army green berets and navy s.e.a.l.s. it has led the internet buzz insisting it is all a plan for the army to wage war on americans, even publishing a military powerpoint slideshowing texas as a military red state. >> i've never heard anything like this unless they are planning an invasion.
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>> senator ted cruz said he understands texans' worries. >> i think part of the worry is we've seen a federal government disrespecting the liberty to citizens. >> chuck norris said on world net daily, what is under question are those who are pulling the strings at the top of jade helm 15 back in washington. the governor abbott said all he meant to do was to have the militia coordinate with the pbt-- with the pentagon. >> we've had assurances there is nothing for the world to worry about. >> but now there is a call to apologize to the military. >> and even the governor said they went to far. >> i think it is okay to question your government. i do it on a regular basis.
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but i think our military is quite trustworthy. >> the white house is trying to stay out of the governor's fray. >> i have no idea what he is thinking? i have an idea. i appreciate the opportunity though. >> and the defense department said the whole thing is ridiculous and they are not taking over texas or any part of the united states. erin? >> barbara starr, thank you very much. that is a true story, folks. we'll be right back. and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.
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>> thanks for watching. record "outfront" so you can watch any time. be sure to watch anderson right now. >> and was this the first isis attack in america? and we have new information about possible isis recruits. isis claims credit for the attack which the white house called an attempted attack by isis but stopped short of saying they ordered it. pamela brown has the latest. >> cnn has learned that there was an order on this account, believed to belong to an