tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN June 10, 2015 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
kind of having to show that you have the experience judgment and gravitas for the top job. >> ron brownstein thanks for coming in. >> thanks, wolf. >> i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern for "the situation room." "amman "amanpour" is next for our international viewers and "newsroom" with brooke baldwin starts right now. >> wolf thank you so much i'm brooke baldwin. you're watching cnn. we begin with the manhunt for the two escaped killers that's taken now the shocking new turn because here's what we know now. a source making some pretty explosive allegations about this woman here. this is joyce mitchell. she's a female prison worker. she's a mother and wife who apparently befriended convicted killer richard matt while working in the prison tailor shop. according to this source they say she was supposed to be waiting in a getaway car for these two but apparently she had a change of heart, perhaps cold feet. she bailed and her son though not buying it.
>> she's not the kind of person who is going to risk her life or other people's lives to let these guys escape from prison. >> reporter: there's a report out there that your mom went to the emergency room with a panic attack. did that happen? >> yes. she was in fact in the hospital that evening. i don't know the exact details. i just know that she was having severe chest pains. >> meantime another one of her sons -- another son is speaking out, soften escaped killer richard matt fugitive who dismembered his boss limb from limb and he says he's not surprised his dad escaped. >> reporter: do you have any respect for your dad at this point? >> i don't know him to say i respect him or not. obviously he was in jail when i was younger and he wasn't there for a father as 100% so there's that but i don't know him well enough. might just be his nature
escaped from at can atica before too, so i don't know. >> want to bring in brendan lyons and u.s. marshal art roderick who has hunted down the u.s. most wanted and investigated the alcatraz prison escape. brendan, first to you, i understand there's even more of a law enforcement presence here in this town of wolvesboro. as i speak they want to find these two, if in fact this tip is valid. are you hearing from sources? i mean how confident are they that they are following the right trail? >> well they got what they think is a very credible tip yesterday when a female driver reported that she had seen two men run into the woods when the headlights were cast on them. they have gotten many many tips of reported sightings, but this one they are taking the most seriously as part of a two-pronged approach. the other approach is they are
going back to the village of dannemora today and starting the search again. as we said to you yesterday, the fbi is still believing that they could be within a five or ten-mile radius of the village as well. >> incredible how they could be that close. under their noses. art, i want to ask you about the manhunt. first, this is something we got from anderson cooper's show last night. he talked to a former accomplice of this inmate richard matt and he actually witnessed matt snap his boss' neck. this was back in 1997 watch his break his fingers. watched him shove a knife sharpener in the victim's ear and he calls this man the devil. listen to this. >> he can make friends easy. he's a master manipulator. this is a 481-year-old man that knows a prison system that knows street -- the streets, street smarts and is a very cunning and dangerous individual. if he has a goal set in mind he's going to go and do
everything he can to achieve it. >> art, you hear those words, master manipulator cunning, street smart. knowing that, put yourself in these police officers' shoes, how do you find this kind of guy? >> brooke that's right on. these guys are boat psychopaths, able to seek out vic estimation and manipulate them to do whatever they want them to do and that's what happened in this case and i'm fairly sure at this point that the new york state police and the u.s. authorities, u.s. marshals fbi probably know mitchell's involvement in the escape and if she got cold feet and backed out, that is excellent news for law enforcement. that means they are probably still in the area and i have heard reports of more law enforcement being brought into that area so i think these are very credible leads. any time you have multiple sightings on any fugitive case you have to take them seriously, and they will track these leads
down or run them to ground. >> you referenced mitchell is the female worker, and brennan, you wrote about this for the paper and we here at cnn say that her cell phone was used. i don't know. she allowed someone else to use her cell phone in relation to one of these inmates, apparently was used multiple times and don't know who they were calling, why they were calling, but what can you share on that. >> our information is that her cell phone was in fact used to call relatives of matt. now, whether she made the calls or allowed him inside the facility to make the calls, it's unknown to us. we don't have that level of detail yet. it's also possible that she gave him a cell phone that he still has with him. if that's the case i'm sure the state police would be glad for that -- to have that information. >> yeah. wouldn't they know art, if one of them has a cell phone? isn't that pretty easily pingable for lack of a better
word? >> it is. you know a lot of those that are involved in crime these days know exactly what can be done to track those types of devices, so you know when we look at any fugitive case regardless if it's this one or another one, we always look at two things communication, who are they talking to and what's their support system so i'm pretty sure that was done right off the get-go as far as these individuals are concerned and if they have got a cell phone that's good news for law enforcement. >> brendan, back to you, because, you know we're reporting about these tools that these -- these -- these fugitives use to get out, this small electrical saw, power by extension cords and this 20-pound sledge ham their was used to like break the lock on the other side of the manhole. you mentioned when we were talking yesterday that this guy tar case and the cell that they use to high some of this stuff in. how did they use it all in their escape? >> well the saw -- it's
unclear. nobody has had the level of detail yet or hasn't been released to know when they cut the holes in the backs of their cells. it could be they did that that night and everything unfolded at once or it could be that the holes were cut in advance and they had some trial runs down there to explore the bowels of the prison. but the grinder saw that they used cut a clean cut. i think that was left behind down below as well at their last cut on the pipe that they entered in order to escape. and so these tools -- my understanding is that they may have carried these tools with them in the guy tar case as well as other items, possibly a change of clothes. i don't know. they wouldn't have been able to have money legally in prison not a lot of money, but certainly they could have found ways to have some of those resources. our information is a little different than cnn's. now it's changed today on the getaway vehicle.
we've heard from one law enforcement source that the plan may have been for an employee to leave a vehicle for them that they could use to escape and that there was no vehicle when they came out. >> how would they have even known they needed a sledge hammer? how would they have known that there would be a lock on the other side of the manhole, to either of you? >> well i think from -- from -- you know we're never really know until they charge somebody with aiding and abetting or assisting in the escape so a lot of those facts are never going to come out but it's quite obvious that based on the escape they had help from either the outside or inside by either getting these devices or somehow smuggling them into the facility and you'd be amazed at the type of contraband that gets smuggled into facilities even though it's a maximum security prison. >> i have one more for you, art, and then i'll let you go. brendan mentioned something that i hadn't thought about before a
trial run. in all these different escapes you've been a part of in terms of investigating, is that pretty typical that you would have a trial run? i would think it would be fairly risky. >> it is fairly risky, but i have been involved in escapes where there have been trial runs. it's not unusual, but it is very risky. obviously the potential of being caught and the whole thing being given up is always a risk when you try to do a trial run, so it's -- i mean i've even heard that there's a possibility that somebody might have come and assisted them so there's all kinds of speculation flying around on this. we're never going to know about the actual escape until they either charge somebody or somebody cooperates and then they just let the information out to the public. >> well we have just learned, we should get more information, there will be a news conference at the top of the hour top of the 3:00 p.m. eastern hour. they are from upstate new york so stay tuned for that, art roderick and brendan lyons, thank you both so much.
>> thank you, brooke. also any moment the lawyer for the officer who just resigned after that pool party takedown in texas. he's about to speak -- the lawyer will speak about his client's behavior and his future. we'll take that live. also my candid and stunning interview with the two active officers from the city of baltimore. this is the first time we have heard from cops since the riots, the freddie gray arrest and the city's deadliest month in 42 years, and they let go and give me their thoughts. ♪ color is a beautiful thing, i know, i know... ♪ ♪ color is a beautiful thing, i know, oh yes i know... ♪ ♪color is the i ching ching for sure ding dang... ♪
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you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. want to give you a head's up on two items that are happening live throughout this show. number one we'll take you and show you pictures live from dallas texas, we'll have the attorney representing the police officer from the pool party melee in mckinney, texas over the weekend. we'll hear from her. the big news item on that is the fact that he will or has resign.
item number two is out of upstate new york the latest on the manhunt for the two fugitives. we'll be hearing from the governor of new york governor cuomo so stay tune for that. that's at the top of the next hour. meanwhile, i want to pivot and talk about baltimore. i want you to hear from a couple of voices we really never get to hear from. six weeks ago riots erupted in baltimore after the death of freddie gray. he died in police custody and six officers are now charged in his death. since those riots the city has just had its deadliest month in 42 years. why? that depends on who you ask, but it's rare that we hear from the actual people who are patrolling the streets and protecting the community. i sat down with two veteran police officers who have not been given permission to speak from the department. because of that and in an attempt to allow these officers to speak candidly cnn agreed not to use their names or show their faces. we have also modified their voices but what you're about to hear throughout this show is their reaction to the riots, why
they are afraid they say, to be proactive in their jobs and why they also say people in power do not have their backs. in this first clip they talked to me about freddie gray's arrest and whether the officers involved were justified. they told me they wanted to speak on behalf of the officers who are afraid to speak their minds. listen to this. so you're here today to help speak your mind and we'll get into the bigger picture issues but first i have to ask you about the death of freddie gray. i know you're familiar with that familiar with the arrest. you've seen the videos. do you feel like those officers acted appropriately? >> they have done nothing different than what we've always done as police officers on the street street. those types of arrests happen on a daily basis. >> the fact that they said they had reasonable suspicion, although you see the video, he's
being dragged. he doesn't have a medic for 40 to 45 minutes, you would have done the same thing. >> absolutely. it's being complaint. if you're complaint you will not have to be engaged by officers. force has to be used with equal force. if you're not complying, that is why, you know police are able to restrain subjects that are not complaint. the officers did nothing wrong. >> that wasn't the intent. i don't think anybody woke up that day and said we're going to go find someone to kill. >> what do you think the public's biggest misconception is about that whole incident the arrest the video, the death? >> we've seen in-custody deaths throughout the country, that you have a bunch of activists that come to the scene and get everybody charged, and when i
say charged, get the community in an uproar and then they leave and that's for their own personal gain. it's for the attention, but when they leave the people that live in those communities are left with moving on and the police is left with trying to rebuild these communities. >> so that's your frustration, but what's the biggest misconception? what are people not getting right in your opinion about what happened? >> that this was an intentional act by the police officers. i don't think so. i don't think there was any attempt to do -- there was no malicious. there was no malice from the officers. >> officer two? >> obviously the officers knew that they were being videotaped. that's the biggest thing. you can't tell me -- >> by a cell phone? >> of course. >> and even not being videotaped you have six officers that are
involved in this. the two officers that were placing him inside the wagon, and a normal person, you would think -- there's nobody especially a law enforcement officer, that you're going to jeopardize your life your career your families your friends and everybody else to -- to -- for what to you know to throw an extra punch or throw an extra kick? there's no physical violence that was involved in this. he was non-complaint. >> there was no physical violence? when you look at the video and you see the takedown is that all -- >> it was a takedown and like i said before force has to be met with equal force, you know. if per se you start, you know throwing punches at me i will defend myself. it's not my duty or my job to retreat and let you be in control of the situation and let
it escalate. we're there to de-escalate things and he was placed in restraints. the situation was de-escalated. he was placed inside the transport vehicle. whatever transpired after that only eddie bray knows and perhaps the other suspect that was in the wagon which he had no view of exactly what you know the suspect was doing inside the vehicle >> i think people would take issue with -- and here's an issue with a lot of these stories. there's video but it doesn't cover the entire confrontation, right, so when you talk about equal force meeting equal force. when you watch that snippet it doesn't certainly appear that freddie gray is exerting the same amount of force as those police officers. >> you're correct and, you know our training and expertise, we're trained to be able to deese-escalate things before they escalate.
there had been no deadly force that had been utilized at that point. he was taken under control. he was placed inside the wagon and the unfortunate thing the results of it it ended up with somebody dying which i'm sure you know all the officers not even officers, the public and the family for freddie gray everybody has lost something because of this and, you know -- >> what did the officers lose? >> their lives. i mean -- they will never be able to go back to their normal life at this point. it doesn't matter. if they are exonerated which they should be it doesn't matter. this is a life-changing event which can't be turned back around and you know it's not only for them but you have to account your children their families mothers, brothers sisters, friends, everybody is affected by this you know. any place they go now, you know
there's going to be fingers pointed at them. >> even if they are not convicted? >> of course. >> coming up next the officers tell me what's behind the city's deadliest month in 42 years. it's not drugs. hear why they say criminals are empowered and while they are holding back in the fight against crime. their candid revelations exclusive to us here at cnn. we'll be right back. you wouldn't take medicine without checking the side effects. hey honey.
before the break, we played you part one of my exclusive interview with these two active baltimore police officers. they agreed to speak with me under the condition of anonymity. because of that and allowing the officers to speak with me candidly cnn agreed to not use their names or show their faces and we've modified their voices. since the depth of freddie gray they have made a startling
admission of holding back and not being proactive on the street against crime and they suggest the reason crime is up right now is because criminals are running wild. >> since the riots baltimore has had the deadliest month in the city's history in 42 years. i was just reading the paper this morning. a 16-year-old died. over the weekend an 8 and 10-year-old shot. why is that happening? >> because the criminal elements feels as though we're not going to run the risk of chasing them if they are armed with a gun, and they are using this opportunity to settle old beef or scores with people that they have a conflict with. i think the public really really sees that they actually are a softer less aggressive police department and we've given them that and now they are realizing that their way of thinking does not work.
>> are the criminals right in thinking that you all will not arrest people as you would before? >> you have to -- you have to run the risk of -- you have to look at it like if i choice this guy who possibly has a gun and he gets hit by a car, will i be charged with criminal negligence for chasing a possible armed suspect that i did not see the gun? that roll of the dice is greater than me just riding to the next call and writing a report so these are things that we have to weigh when we're riding past a group of guys on the corner and we can't make that decision because we run the risk of being criminally charged. >> so there are additional conversations you're having almost with yourself in your head as far as whether or not you want to pursue. is it because you don't want to be wrongfully your word charged, or is it because the they you reference, those above your pay grade are wanting the softer
more gentle police department? which is it? >> we believe that there are outside influences such as the activists that request us off of the police department. some of the citizens requested us off of the police department and now they have the softer police department. i mean we've survived through -- >> but you took an oath to serve and protect? >> we've survived through commissioners changing the color of our cars to being a light blue color, to appeal to the public and everybody wants officer friendly but we respond to people's situations and we encounter people while they are at their worst. the worst thing that could ever have happened to a person we respond to and we understand that these are not our problems. we are coming to solve problems and help. you know whenever there's a call for someone firing a gun every day, our officers respond with the same amount of vigor that they have always done even
before freddie gray. >> so then what's different? >> well what's different is the proactive self-initiated policing has stopped. >> we're now in a reactive mode. >> we're in a total reactive mode. >> and this is the result that you get, and ultimately it -- it does a disservice to the law-abiding citizens. it does a disservice to the business owners. it does a disservice to everybody except the criminal element because they are in their glory right now. they know that pretty much the whole police department has shifted all to a reactive side you know. you have no more initiated stops per se you know. an officer is worried. he's riding down the street and even though you have a reason of
suspicious suspicion and you see a guy walking down the street and there's a bulge coming in from their waist bandband and different characteristics that we're trained for to look for an armed person and i can tell you this and it's the truth nine out of ten times that officer is going to keep on driving. >> i understand the desire to self-protect but at the same time i'm thinking if i am a resident of the city of baltimore, i'm sitting here watching you all and thinking this is not okay. >> you're right, it's not. but we need the public's help and that's the only -- the element right now that's going to be able to fix this but a the people on our side do not have our backs. >> you're both fathers, i can say that and here you are, you're risking your lives each and every day. you have taken this oath to serve and protect. do you though think that sometimes some officers abuse
that privilege? >> i think that if someone abuses that privilege, then they need to be charged and, you know that we need to get rid of them. we don't want that negative statement. >> does it exist? obviously we're not naming names here. >> the thing of it is every profession. >> it exists. >> it exists. >> coming up next the current baltimore police commissioner just moments ago responding to my interview and reveals his blunt word for these two officers and any other officers who think like them. it's next after a quick break. new york state is reinventing how we do business by leading the way on tax cuts. we cut the rates on personal income taxes. we enacted the lowest corporate tax rate since 1968. we eliminated the income tax on manufacturers altogether. with startup-ny, qualified businesses that start, expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs.
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presence of his family, his children other parents and children. eric assisted the officers the mckinney officers who responded, he assisted them in securing the scene, photographing the body and collecting statements. eric also spent a considerable amount of time consoling the man's grieving widow. immediately thereafer he responded to a second suicide call. this one was involving a teenage girl who was threatening to commit suicide by jumping off of her parent's roof. eric assisted by calming the girl enough so that she could be transported safely to the hospital. eric's compassion during these two incidences are a testament to his character and all the officers who work for the mckinney police department. the nature of these two suicide calls took an emotional toll on
eric casebolt. they serve as a reminder that while police work is often dangerous, it is fraught with emotions and family tragedy. when the craig ranch neighborhood incident came over the radio, eric casebolt was reluctant to respond to a simple trespassing call given what he had just been through. he was content to let the other officers handle this call. however, once the call was escalated and responded to possible violent assault he felt and believed it was his duty to respond. eric's actions at the craig ranch neighborhood were only an attempt to investigate the reports of violent assault. his purpose was to interview as many persons as possible to determine who was involved. he believed that those who fled were possible suspects. he was not targeting minorities.
in fact he also detained a white female who you do not see on the video. his efforts to gather information was hampered by some teenagers who were instructed others to defy police instructions. with all that had happened that day he allowed his emotions to get the better of him. eric regrets that his conduct portrayed him and his department in a negative light. he never intended to mistreat anyone but was only reacting to a situation and the challenges that it presented. he apologizes to all who were offended. that day was not representative of the ten-year service to the community of mckinney, and it is his hope that by his resignation
the community may start to heal. i thank you so much for your time. >> will you take any questions, ma'am? >> no, sir, i'm not going to take any questions at this time. >> good afternoon. on june 9, 2015, member eric casebolt resigned his position as corporal with the mckinney police department. the decision made by eric was one that was extremely difficult to make. eric made this choice with the hopes of unburdening the mckinney police department and the entire community of mckinney from many further negative publicity. eric understands the pressure that was being placed on the department and city administrators. he hopes that his resignation will restore the peace in mckinny that was disturbed by this incident. eric faithfully and honorably served the mckinney pd for ten years. he was a dedicated and decorated officer who in this incident was placed in a high stress environment he was not fully prepared for. eric was a top performer within the department and received the
officer of the year award for his conduct and service. this incident and the seven minutes worth of video does not fully depict eric's moral and ethical character along with his contributions to the department over a span of ten years of committed service. the mckinney fop and eric are extremely grateful for the outpouring of support that he has received from the mckinney community as well as from citizens across the country. unfortunately, this positive show of support has and will always be overshadowed by hatred and those set on creating racial tensions in america. this includes the countless death threat calls and e-mails being received that are not being conveyed to the public. the mick kinny fop along with the state -- texas state fop lodge will continue to provide any assistance necessary to eric and his family. the mckinney fop is confident when all the information is justly and unbiasedly
investigated the truth surrounding this incident will be uncovered. thank you. >> are any of you taking questions? >> no sir. >> she left a big question hanging. are you guys suggesting that out of the 12 cops that were there at the scene that casebolt was the only one who responded to either the suicides and this? >> one minute. >> we -- because there's still an active investigation being done by the mckinney police department we think it's inappropriate for us to comment on something like that as much as we'd like to. >> you mentioned an apology. is that apology to the 14 15-year-old that's involved in that? >> yes. anyone who feels, you know -- who was offended yes. >> what about the death threats? you say that you're in the
telling people about that. can you guys elaborate? can you -- how often? who are they going to? were they phone calls, e-mails? we also heard some talk about people vandalize inging, any truth to that? >> i'll try to answer the questions you asked all at once. i can answer to the death threat calls and e-mails. those are coming in daily, on a daily basis to you know -- i can't speak -- i'm not here to speak for the mckinney police department at all. i can confirm that i've received some. i know eric casebolt has received some as well. as far as your question regarding vandalism, again, i'd have to refer you to the mckinney police department. >> can i just ask you, several people in the community said that they believe assault charges should be filed against eric casebolt with regard to his
treatment of the teens. is he to your knowledge the subject of a criminal investigation regarding the actual physical treatment of the 15-year-old girl? >> i believe to answer your question i do not know any more than you all know. all i know is what chief connolly reported in his conference yesterday. beyond that we have not been notified of any independent investigations, any other criminal investigations or whether an investigation is even being done. >> why didn't he come today? >> honestly the death threats. he's worried for his family. he's worried he may be followed and until that -- until that threat subsides he's going to, you know be in an undisclosed location? >> are the death threats against his family also? >> i'm not sure that they are against his family but are
definity will against him. >> they have been forced to leave their home? >> yes, they have been forced to leave their homes. >> is it e-mails, phone calls? >> i believe it's been phone calls, phone calls into the police department regarding him. he has tried to remove any ability to contact him directly. >> did he make it aware to you that some people were doing this as a racially tinged act and his response and him working there, when did he become aware that it was viewed in that manner by some? >> i think he became aware immediately the minute that it was reported by the media and interviews were being done. i think he knew immediately that that was an issue. >> [inaudible question ]. >> according to the city of mckinney he does keep his pension and benefits.
>> the police department now is actually getting angry and in some cases racially elevated calls in accusing the police department of not supporting the people people on his behalf calling the police department? >> i have no information or no way to confirm that. >> can you answer that question? >> no, no ma'am, i can not speak on behalf of the police department at all. >> have you heard that those reports, because that's what i've heard in mckinny is they are now getting angry phone calls of a racist nature people angry at the police department for not supporting. >> not standing by? >> not standing by. >> i can't confirm or deny any of those accusations. i can't speak on behalf. mckinney police department. >> is there an investigation going on as to who made the calls tracing them back? are they trying to find out who did this? >> once again, i can't talk on behalf of the pd. >> yeah folks, they only know
what they are being told by the mckinney police department and pause they are representing the officer they are not getting all the things they asked for so to ask them to comment on that is sort of unfair. i'm sure the mckinney police department will do their due diligence to deal with that but in this case where we are trying now is to try to let member them get an opportunity to get officer casebolt's sorry out. >> the fop actually -- >> see's the attorney that represents him for the fop. she's the fop attorney in this case >> [inaudible question ]. >> i can't answer to that. right now he's waiting for this process to go through. he does -- he has received a lot of support from many individuals around the country.
he's sad. it's his lifelong dream to being a police officer and that's pretty much cut off for him now. doesn't really have plans for the future specifically yet. still waiting for the process and for the investigations to be done. as chief connolly said he's facing possible criminal charges, so he has to prepare for that as well. >> did you watch the video with him and what was his reaction? >> i did not watch the video with him. >> you talked about his emotions. responding to the pool. what were those emotions? >> i'm going to allow him soon enough to answer those questions where his state of mind was. i can't really answer to that right now, as much as i would like tock. >> in his apology what exactly is he apologizing in. >> apologizing that his conduct offended -- he recognizes and i
think i said this he recognizes that his emotions got the best of him and that the prior suicide calls but him in an emergency place that we believer not nobody in. >> [ inaudible question ] >> that i do not know. appreciate you all coming today. i'm not going to answer any questions. >> i don't think they are going to answer any more questions. sunny hostin let me bring you in with your legal mind. we've been listening to the lawyer fraternal order of police order who is representing officer eric casebolt who is the one who drew the weapon over the weekend at a pool party involving teenagers and so you know obviously a lot of people have said that kind of activity is outrageous. even the police chief has said that that is against training. >> yes. >> and here you have this
attorney laying out, he responded to this suicide call and this suicide call, was hesitant initially and went in and responded to what could have been what do they call it, a possible violent assault at this pool. >> mm-hmm um him. what is she doing strategically speaking because he's not charged yet, right? >> certainly trying to paint a picture of a conscientious officer who just had a bad day, but, unfortunately, when you are a law enforcement officer, you can't have that kind of day, the kind of day that we saw because in my view what we saw was false imprisonment of a child and brandishing a weapon at a child and there are penalties for that behavior. that certainly could be a felony. >> a felony. >> and coax pose him to a significant amount of jail time so i think she's trying to head that off at the pass. >> she says his emotions got the best of him. >> sure. again, as a law enforcement officer you can't have that kind
of day. you're a trained professional and that is why you have the authority to arrest. that is why you have the authority to carry a weapon and what we saw quite frankly in my mind were potential crimes so i think the fact that he resigned is important. i think we can't make too little about that but the bottom line here brooke is i think what we are expecting as a society is people that have that type of power must be held accountable for their behavior and so i -- i suspect absent some sort of criminal charge people in our society are going to say that he wasn't held accountable, because if you just resign as a police officer, can't you get another job in law enforcement. i mean is that what we're going to see so again, i think, you know his resignation was an important step but just the first step. >> okay. >> thank you so much sunny hostin. he's at an undisclosed location
on the receiving end of multiple death threats. next back to my exclusive and incredibly candidate interview with two baltimore police officers. their boss the top cop in the city the baltimore police commissioner just responding to my interview moments ago. you'll hear what he said in very blunt terms about these officers and any officers who think like them. that's next.
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and we have been talking here about some of the police officers in baltimore and how in the weeks after the freddie gray arrest and death it has been difficult for them to do their jobs effectively. two active duty officers talked to me because they did not have permission to -- to talk. they describe feeling like they can't be proobjective in trying to thwart the crime and many are holding back in terms of being prosecute. joining me now is miguel marquez who has been covering this for weeks and weeks. at the news conference held by the commissioner there. also joining me is baltimore councilman stokes and i hear the commissioner has responded for our interview with these two officers. what did he say? >> well a bit of a bizarre situation. this was -- the u.s. attorney holding a press conference with lots of federal officials and the state's attorney marilyn mosby and the police
commissioner to combine their efforts to go after crime across the city. the commissioner then spoke and we tried to ask him about the people speaking out. officers both publicly and unanimously, as you know saying that they have lost confidence in him, in his leadership that they don't know how to act as police officers because they fear that they make too aggressive an arrest that they will then end up being prosecuted themselves. i tried to ask him that question. here's how he responded. >> the question is -- your question is kind of oxymoronic because you're saying they don't do this for that. i'll say this. my job is real clear. i come to work every day, and i roll up my sleeves and i put my nose to the grindstone. i don't worry about hyperbole. i don't worry about the other stuff that's going on and the political stuff. my job is to give direction and make sure that we get it done. these officers have an ethical responsibility to this city to the babies to the kids to the
mothers, to the weak ones that are out there to protect this city as a whole and keep their job going in that direction. we've provied them insight and peer counseling an an opportunity to share what they need to do. but at the end of the day we get paid to get a job done. >> reporter: but that is the question are they doing their jobs? all the statistics we've seen up until this point is that murder rates, crime rates across the board are up and arrest are way down. put in many questions for more statistics more recent statistics and the police commissioner rather than answer question mocks the question and doesn't answer so it's very clear the state's attorney has refused to answer any questions with regard to her. police officers feel that she will go after them if they make arrests that are deemed not
proper. >> right. that is exactly what those officers told me. appreciate you trying to get a question in there. councilman stokes i want to ask you something specific. these two officers -- >> hi. >> they said to me they were blaming activists and some of the demonstrators, those who don't live in baltimore, came in from out town when you and i were on tv and gettings things ride up over brublt their word and then they say they are clearing at a town leaving pat baltimore to have to deal with the aftermath. i want you to respond to that. >> i do respect officers at the fact that they der of our somewhat. the tone was somewhat disingenuous. didn't take outside agitators to come to baltimore and say look
at the uneven history, happen in our city so it is not try that people came to down an caused the riot. >> i am they cawed it but i think they would say they agitate it had. >> they edged it had on. i don't think that's true. that's what southern segregationists would say when martin luther king and white jews and others from upstate new york would come down to the south, that these outside agitators are coming here and stirring up our people and that wasn't the case then. it's not the case now. now, i respect police in this ski and most of the state sense there. have probably toughest job in america and they would also expect they would have sop greatest resolved in america and i would have suspected by this time there would have been some
remind. me -- no officer has been arrested for jog his. no officer has gone to jail for doing his or her job. hardly any police have gone to jail for not doing their job. it's not right to put out this then that if they do their charge, they will be convicted arrest will and put in jail at. >> no i think, again, having spent and other with this they would say -- i quizzed them i said you took this job and they recognized them and feel like the leaders in the city don't have their backs, including you as a member of