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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  June 16, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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good evening. we begin with breaking news in upstate new york. police are shifting the focused on the search for david sweat and richard matt. search teams are being deployed to surrounding areas. this after days of scouring an area near the prison. a prison worker is charged with helping sweat and matt escape. accord together a course, mitchell's husband, lyle, visited her today. we don't know what the visit was like, how long it lasted or what was said. tonight, we are learning a lot more about what went on between
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mitchell and the killers she befriended. she should say more. we also have new information about the danger her husband may have faced from her prison lovers and what she allegedly did to protect him. randy, i understand you have new information about this plot to kill joyce mitchell's husband. >> reporter: that's right, anderson. we have that information from a source with direct knowledge of the investigation. joyce mitchell warned her husband that he was in danger. as you know, she knew about the escape plan. she also knew about the plot to kill her husband by these two men. apparently, she grew so worried that she spilled everything to her husband, lyle. she told him about the escape plan and told him his life might be in danger. that is how lisle mitchell is connected to this whole thing. at first, investigators thought, maybe he took part in the plan, in the escape plan, but now, they're looking more at the fact that maybe he was just made aware of it because his wife warned him that these two men may come after him and may kill him. >> in terms of -- actually, first of all, do we know when she warned him? i mean, if he had prior
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knowledge of the escape plan and said nothing, is that what, in fact, we believe happened? >> reporter: right. we don't know when. that's the one thing the source would not divulge, was the date on that. >> in terms of joyce's relationship with richard matt which last night we learned was a sexual relationship, have you learned more? >> reporter: we have. be when david sweat, the other escapee, this sexual relationship was with richard matt, but the other inmate, david sweat, was removed from the tailor shop where joyce mitchell worked with the two men and her husband who did
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maintenance in the shop. sweat was removed in 2013 and that's when her relationship with matt started. e tailor shop. i am told that's the only place that richard matt and joyce mitchell were together in that prison. >> are they looking at anyone else involved in the escape? >> reporter: as you know, this plan was so elaborate. of course, they're looking at a lot of other people. one thing they're considering is whether or not any of the other prisoners may have created some type of diversion, whether before or after, even during this escape, as the two men made their way through the prison. i was told today that joyce mitchell is not the only prison employee they are looking at. they are considering everyone. >> i appreciate the latest. thank you. i want to bring in a former u.s. marshall who commanded the u.s. marshall service regional section. also the head of the northeast fugitive service, and fbi profiler. these revolutions, it seems like every night, we hear of a different version of joyce
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mitchell's relationship, what she told her husband, what her husband knew. does it make sense to you? >> again, it's my gut reaction to this whole thing about joyce mitchell. she not only plan b, but she was
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caped. they're going to tell her whatever they need to. this is my personal opinion. sure, i mean, they fed her everything. she had a prior complaint against her with david sweat. they're going to go to her as soon as they escape. she'll be on the top of the list for law enforcement. >> they would have known that. these guys have thought this out carefully. >> well, they had an elaborate plan to get out and none is adding up with respect to her. i hope they're contained in the perimeter and they stumble upon these guys. >> does it make sense to you, john? >> i agree wholeheartedly. it appears they cultivated this female staffer to get what they need, to get to the outside. they probably kept her in the dark or certain aspects. with the search going on up there, and the absence of anything being developed in terms of concretely saying they've been there or not there, you have to conclude that there is a probability that there was a plan b by these guys, another get away driver, so to speak. or they're outside of the perimeter, contained. they had eight hours or so to get elsewhere, and they conceivably could be in a house outside of the area that's being searched. possibly holding a family at bay or something of that nature. there has been no calls, no 911 calls about cars being stolen, houses being broken into, things like that. >> mary ellen, we now believe -- okay, she has a relationship with sweat, and he was moved out of the tailor shop.
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then it seems a relationship with matt that went on for apparently quite some time. goes back several years at least. as you've learned more about her, what do you make of what was going on inside the prison? >> the one thing that's very striking to me, when we do assessments of individuals for their possible involvement in whatever the criminal activity is, she was able to maintain a pattern of deceptive behavior for as much as two years. she was deceptive not only to her employer, but she was deceptive to her family as well. she was able to go along with this and keep it quiet. at least up until the end. that's the part that i think is, to me, causes me to think that, at this point, she's probably continuing to some extent being deceptive. the second thing i would say is that as much as they probably hated to depend on her, these were two guys that really had burned all their inter personal relationships before. there would be very few people that would want to help them and put their neck on the line. so investigators should be able to determine who did they -- who else did they talk to? who has visited them? who did they communicate with? unfortunately, these guys didn't have very many people to choose from that could help them, once they got through the tunnels and needed a ride some place. as much as we'd like to say they had a plan b, there are few people that would help him. >> it's interesting you say it's possible she's continuing to be deceptive. all of these -- randy's reporting, miguel's reporting, all is based on sources on what really it all boils down to what she is telling authorities. it seems like there are differing stories we have heard now over the course of several days.
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it seems like the stories have changed. at first, it was some sort of relationship. now, it's, well, they threatened me. now, it's, i told my husband. to your point, it seems very possible that she's still being deceptive or we don't have the full story. >> that's right. if being deceptive is part of her personality, it's part of the way that she minimizes kind of bad behavior that she engages in. that's part of what she does. we could expect that deception to continue. and for her to attempt to kind of save face with what she's done. the question is, i know she's supposedly said she loved her husband. that's the reason she got cold feet. but, you know, the prosecutor is going to say, well, did you love your husband when you brought the blades? how about the first time you had sex with richard matt, did you love your husband then? it seems like the stories have changed. at first, it was some sort of relationship. now, it's, well, they threatened
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me. now, it's, i told my husband. to your point, it seems very possible that she's still being deceptive or we don't have the full story. >> that's right. if being deceptive is part of her personality, it's part of the way that she minimizes kind of bad behavior that she engages in. that's part of what she does. we could expect that deception to continue. and for her to attempt to kind of save face with what she's done. the question is, i know she's supposedly said she loved her husband. that's the reason she got cold feet. but, you know, the prosecutor is going to say, well, did you love your husband when you brought the blades? how about the first time you had sex with richard matt, did you love your husband then? this woman is a game player, and it's probably something she's done her entire life. with that said, i would suspect that there continues to be some degree of game playing in her story. >> continues to be fascinating. i appreciate it.
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guys, thank you very much. as a reminder, set your dvr and watch 360 any time you want. up next, rachel dolezal talking about the controversy over her racial identification and her racial identity, and what is the truth of it all. details on that. rachel dolezal spoke out in i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. or wonder... ...whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients... ...who've had no prior treatment.
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detail for the first time. until recently, she was the head of the naacp and spoke in washington. as far as anyone knew, she was a light skinned african-american woman. that's what she portrayed herself as. her white birth parents said otherwise, and she stepped down from her job, which she got credit from doing well. now, she's talking and it seems so are many people in the country. here is a portion of her conversation with matt lauer. >> let me ask you the question in simple terms again because you sent mixed signals over the years. are you an african-american woman? >> i identify as black. >> you identify as black. let me put a picture of you in your early 20s. when you see this picture, is this an african-american woman, or is that a caucasian woman? >> that's -- not in my early 20s.
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>> younger, i guess? >> i think i was 16 in that picture. >> is that a caucasian woman or african-american woman? >> i would say, visibly, she'd be identified as white by people who see her. >> but at the time, were you identifying yourself as african-american? >> in that picture, during that time, no. >> your parents were asked this question this week, and they didn't have any trouble answering it. they said, she's clearly our birth daughter, and we're clearly caucasian. that's just a fact. your father went on to say, she's a talented woman, doing work she believes in. why can't she do that as a caucasian woman, which is what she is? how do you answer that question? >> well, first of all, i really don't see why they're in such a rush to whitewash some of the work i have done and who i am, and how i've identified. this goes back to a very early age, with my self identification
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with the black experience, as a young child. >> when did it start? >> i would say about 5 years olds. >> you began identifying yourself as african-american? >> i was drawing self-portraits with the brown crayon instead of the peach crayon, with black, curly hair. that's how i was portraying myself. >> you've changed your appearance. your complexion is darker than it was in the photos of you as a young lady. have you done something to darken your complexion? >> i certainly don't stay out of the sun. i also don't, as some of the critics have said, put on black face as a performance. >> let me address that. some people have said the way you changed your opinion is akin to putting on black face. the "washington post" wrote, black face remains racist, no matter how down with the cause a white person is. do you understand what he means by that? >> absolutely. absolutely.
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>> do you agree with it? >> i have a huge issue with black face. this is not some freak mockery black face performance. >> not a black face performance, she says. yet, on a purely physical level, there is the tanning, the makeup, the hair and her statements over the years. she says it speaks to who she is inside. as for everyone else, says many things to many people. we have a writer and the author of "near black, white to black passing in american culture." there's a lot to talk about. first of all, the idea that she stays out in the sun is just -- that's just not true. i mean, does anyone buy that? >> i don't know. are we supposed to take this seriously? the idea that she is now the -- our jumping off point for a conversation about something that is very real and is very kind of a scab for a lot of black people in particular is grating to me. i can't take that seriously. the idea, you're 5 years old and
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you're really into the black experience. i'm sorry. it's hard to -- >> which, by the way, her parents deny. saying that didn't happen. >> she never drew a picture of herself with a brown crayon. i don't know how to take it or what to make of it. >> if at age 5 she is so down with the black experience that she's drawing herself like that, in those later pictures, as larry said the other night, she's like -- >> i think it's academy jargon. >> the scab that you were picking is very real, particularly to black women. what this is getting at, how
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this is getting at our identify. in other interview today, when she was asked, does she understand the rage that this is causing black women, she said, yes, i understand. but never did she acknowledge it. never did she say, i understand and i am sorry. i understand this time that we're having this conversation. to not acknowledge this time, this black lives matter moment, and never even say, i'm sorry. i feel your pain. you are not a black woman in this moment if you don't understand that black mothers are burying their boys. i -- it is the most insulting moment.
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we're in a civil rights moment, and she's talking about her hair and her skin and not even taking into account what we're negotiating now, as black people, and as black women who have been under constant attack on our very beauty. it is -- i think she's out of her mind, to be quite honest. the bow and arrows, but put that aside. >> she said that she lived in south africa with her family, was whipped with a baboon whip by her parents, who punish people based on the color of their skin. she never lived in south africa, but her parents moved there later. >> only a white woman could have those set of circumstances, being investigated for hate crimes that probably didn't happen. talking about being whipped with a baboon strap. we're talking about her as if
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this is something credible. that is the scab. that is the rub. >> she knows how to drop the vocabulary, but she doesn't know how to push the envelope in terms of the discussion. it's knowing how to throw the right phrases around but not knowing how to go there in depth. >> in your book, you explore the idea of what you call reverse racial passing, where legally white individuals with imagined to be passing for black by themselves or others. what do you think is going on? >> i think there is a long legacy in american culture of racial masquerade. black is normally passing for white out of social necessity, all other things. there is this tradition of white passing for black, that goes back to the 18th century, 19th century, and continues into the present day. it is founded on a historical idea of blackness that runs through american culture and always has.
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i see her as being in line with the tradition. >> she fetishizes black culture? >> right. we're used to be one that comes in the hip hop culture, the exaggerated performance of an imagined notion of what blackness is. that's become easy for us to dismiss. this one, because it has the complexity to it, becomes even more intriguing because the performance is not quite the caricature, as the one we're used to. >> in some of the answers she gave, they just didn't make sense. when you start to scratch away at them and listen, i want to play something she said on msnbc to melissa harris perry. let's listen. >> are you black? >> yes. >> what do you mean when you say that? what does it mean to you to assume the identity of blackness? >> well, it means several things. first of all, it means that i have really gone there with the
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experience, in terms of being a mother of two black sons and really owning what it means to experience and live black. blackness. >> i mean, i just -- >> please. i'm sorry. >> what did you say? >> lady, please. it's funny in a way, but also, it's tragic because it does show a struggle. it's the idea that you've gone there. >> that's the line that bothered me. >> what does that look like? >> what does that mean, and how does it mean to go there? is that available to everyone, to be able to simply say, today, i want to go there and i want to live your experience. then i want to emulate your experience. >> she said she could only be a black child -- couldn't do it as a white person. >> which is ridiculous. i grew up in a black neighborhood. there were white women who dated
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and married into the black community. they talked like black women or dressed like them sometimes, but didn't pretend to be anything else. they didn't change who they were to be loving parents to those children. you don't have to do that. >> it's insulting to parents who adopt. that's what transracial is, in the adoptive industry. you can be a loving parent. why can't you -- why can't black be beautiful to you as a white person? why must you own it? again, this is why this is a spectacular display of white privilege. that you can't admire and help and be an ally, without having to own it. that's the language that is disturbing to me, the own it. ownership. >> we have a take a break. great to have you here. thank you very much. also, charles, stick around. up next, how this woman became who she is today, step for step, for better or worse, her adoptive brother joins us for his perspective on what his sister is doing.
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certainly a spectrum of perspectives on the rachel dolezal story, as well as a spectrum of offense that has been taken and feelings hurt. here's another point along that line. kareem abdul jabar wrote a piece and credited her in giving him the courage to admit he's been living a lie for years. he is, he says, only 5'8". more seriously, he says her accomplishments outweigh her dishonesty and the hurt it caused. others disagree. long before rachel dolezal hit the headlines, kurt vonnegut wrote, we are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be. here's how rachel dolezal did it. >> reporter: rachel dolezal was born november 12th, 1977, in montana, according to this birth certificate provided by her parents. while no race is listed, this is her mother and father. >> we are her birth parents. we do not understand why she feels it's necessary to misrepresent her ethnicity. >> reporter: rachel says she started to identify as black around age 5, something her parents dismiss. although they say she felt a connection with african-americans at an early age. when she was a teenager, her parents adopted four black children. rachel went to college in mississippi and grad school at howard university, a black institution on an art scholarship. while she didn't identify
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herself as black on the application because there wasn't an option to, her parents believe the school thought she was. >> because her portfolio was all african-american themes, they only saw she wasn't black when she arrived. >> eyes were popping when she went to finalize her registration. >> reporter: howard honored the scholarship and married moore. the parents are on either side of the newlyweds, and the adoptive siblings. she sued howard for discrimination as a white woman, saying she lost a job opportunity. a judge and appeals court found no basis for her claims and she was ordered to re-pay court costs in 2005. it's unclear when she started to publicly identify as being black. in 2010, while teaching a studies program at eastern washington university, she identified as black with an african-american father and white mother. >> black women much more than an aesthetic. >> reporter: she became a defender of civil rights and a leader in the black community there. in 2014, she was appointed to a commission that provided
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civilian oversight for the spokane police department. on her application, she identified herself as african-american, white and native american. in a posting from january on the organization's facebook page, this man is identified as rachel's father. she was questioned about that in 2010, while teaching a studies program at eastern washington university, she identified as black with an african-american father and white mother. >> black women much more than an aesthetic. >> reporter: she became a defender of civil rights and a leader in the black community there. in 2014, she was appointed to a commission that provided civilian oversight for the spokane police department. on her application, she identified herself as african-american, white and native american. in a posting from january on the organization's facebook page,
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this man is identified as rachel's father. she was questioned about that just last week. >> is that your dad? >> yeah. that's my dad. >> reporter: that is the moment when rachel dolezal's story began to unravel. >> are you african-american? >> i don't understand the question. >> joining us now is ms. dolezal's adoptive brother, ezra. thank you for being with us. as you know, i don't know if you have seen all the interviews today, but your sister continues to say she is black. she identifies as black. she's not white. when you hear her say that, what do you think? >> i think she should actually
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admit to -- and start telling the truth to actually say that she's -- she was not born black, that she actually is now taking on the identity, i guess. but she was not born black. she continues to say the same story and seems to believe it. >> do you have a sense of when she started to do this? today, she's saying, when i was 5, i was drawing these pictures of myself with a brown crayon. teachers or my parents said, use the peach crayon. you obviously were not around. you're much younger than she is. you weren't around when she was 5 years old. but do you believe that's true? >> no. the first time i ever remember her actually taking an interest in actually doing this was 2011. she actually told me that she was doing this, that she was going to say she had different parents, say that montana wasn't her home, that she was from there and grew up there and
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everybody should not consider her black, but she wanted people to think she was black. >> she said that to you? >> yes. >> why did she say she was going to do that? >> she never gave a reason. >> did you think it strange or unusual? >> well, she'd been slowly turning from the family for a while, so i wasn't completely surprised about that. i was actually surprised about, like, a few things. now, she's trying to say she was born a tp, grew up in africa, and other stuff that wasn't true. >> she told people she lived with family in south africa. your family moved there for several years -- >> she was never there. >> she'd left home already? >> she's never been to africa. >> she's never been to south africa at all? >> she never has. >> she said her parents would discipline her with a baboon strap based on skin color. >> that never happened. she never lived in south africa. i don't know why she's saying she got punished in africa. she never has been there. >> what would you want -- your parents were on cnn earlier today, and i want to play something that they said. >> she did not ever refer to herself or draw pictures or anything that indicated she thought of herself as black.
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it was disturbing because the false statements continue. as much as we're concerned with rachel's identity issues, we are also concerned with her integrity issues. >> do you think she has a problem with integrity? >> oh, yeah. >> really? >> oh, yeah. she's said very dishonest things a lot of times before. for a while, she was saying stuff about certain members of the family and kind of trying to turn them on each other. she told a bunch of lies about my parents to try to get custody of isaiah a while ago. >> she was making allegations of abuse. >> yeah. she basically said that stuff just so the courts would see her as a better parent, i guess. so she'd end up with isaiah. >> you haven't had contact with her for four years? >> four years. >> do you want to still have contact with her? >> i could. i doubt she wants to talk to anybody in the family anymore. she shut everybody off. she shut my parents off probably last year. the rest of us was before that. i mean, the whole thing with isaiah got a lot of the people in the family to shut her off kind of. >> well, i'm sorry for all you're going through and i appreciate you talking about your sister.
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thank you very much. >> thank you. >> nice to meet you, ezra. >> thank you. just ahead, would rachel dolezal make the same choices if she was given a do over? would she lie about her race? more of the conversation with matt lauer ahead. plus, a town's response to the shark attacks at the same north carolina beach. officials reportedly vowing to kill any aggressive sharks that come too close to shore. the question is, how will they determine what shark was responsible and what an aggressive shark is?
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we've been talking about whether a person can, in fact, racially transition or experiment with black identity or appropriate the african-american experience, or whether this is all some kind of pathology on rachel dolezal's part. then there's this, could she
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have been just as effective as an advocate for african-americans without the pretense as a white woman at the naacp? here's another clip touching on that theme from her conversation with nbc's matt lauer. >> would you make the same choices you've made, rachel? >> i would. >> when you say that, wouldn't you go back and perhaps be a little more transparent about certain things in your life, or correct some of the things that were said about you that you knew to be incorrect? >> you know, there are probably a couple interviews i would do a t i know now. but overall, my life has been one of survival, and the decisions i have made along the way, including my identification, have been to survive. and to, you know, carry forward in my journey and life
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continuum. >> you resigned your position at the naacp out in spokane. do you feel you could have been as effective -- by the way, you should get a lot of credit. people feel you breathed new life into that chapter -- you you can be as successful or had as big an impact had you been a caucasian woman, as opposed to being identified as an african-american woman? >> i don't know. i guess i haven't had the opportunity to experience that. in those shoes. i'm not sure. >> i don't know what that means. she might not be sure, however, our next guest is. he runs the arizona chapter of the naacp and joins us with charles. donald, you have been a successful president of the naacp branch as a white guy. i wonder what you make of all this? >> i'm not happy about it. it's a slam against the organization. it will ultimately hurt the organization for some period of time. you have to recall, anderson,
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this is a race-based organization. a national association for the advancement of colored people. being a race-based organization, when you have a leader in any capacity, whether it be on the local level, nationwide, et cetera, you have to have credibility. once you lose that credibility, the efficacy of your leadership fails. we have a person who did wonderful things as a president and a member of the board of directors there in the spokane branch, but is also ultimately brought down a lot of harm to the organization. it's become a laughing stock matter across the country, except it's not funny. when this thing first broke, i said, you know, this is like a thread sticking out. they're going to start tugging on that thread and bad things are going to happen. the suit is going to fall apart. sure enough, that's happened. >> she doesn't know if she'd be as effective in the naacp if she identified as a white woman. when you hear that, what goes through your mind?
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>> i don't believe it. i'm in that posture, and i know i have to go out in the community. i deal with both african-americans. i deal with caucasians. i'm dealing only on a daily basis -- not only -- with police chiefs from the community, but mayors, town council members, city managers, people who lead civic organizations. the life's blood of our organization is fund raising. what runs the national association for the advancement of colored people are benjamin franklins. that keeps things going. >> fund raising is critical, obviously. >> critical. >> what more do you want to say? i do think this is complex. >> what he just said is it. using his white male privilege to help the american project, right? so that's what she could have done. she could have used her privilege to help get structural racism and help black women in a
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real way. we can't be white. what he articulated is really what we have been trying to get at. how you can be white and still work in social justice is clear. >> charles, she was hired as a black woman to teach african studies. >> there are a lot of white processors, so you can do that work. the whole idea of the naacp was to take african-americans when they were at a real position of vulnerability and oppression and still exist, to some degree, and try to lift that to an equal status. try to chisel away at the structural problems that were standing in the way of equality. that's all that people are asking anybody to do. anybody can engage in that work. all of us, in fact, have to be engaged in it for it to be a successful experiment. it cannot just be a black people striving issue.
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it has to be a society-wide accepting of this is a real possibility and it is an admirable goal that we want equality in our society. part of what our history is is that we have privileged some populations and pressed down others. until we acknowledge that, we don't get rid of it. she could have used her position in our society to -- for the advancement of that cause. >> do you see you as a form of blackface? her saying that, well, she doesn't not be out in the sun, there's more to it than that. >> she is -- >> there's more to her presentation. >> i do believe that it is -- it has been performance because it has been deceptive, right in. >> right. >> if it were honest and you
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were saying, i was born to two white parents, however, i think that black women are beautiful and i think black hair is beautiful and i would like to look like that, even though that was not my birth experience. that would have been an honest expression. this is actually performance based on deception. therefore, whether you call it blackface or not, it is a deceptive performance and insulting in that way. >> donald, do you feel it has lasting harm to the naacp? >> no. the organization is bigger than one person. >> that's right. >> what has happened has mushroomed because the press has mushroomed it. it's a unique story. the black-white angle is -- how often do we see something like this come along? we have it in our laps. it's all around the world. we have someone who has taken the opportunity to try and present herself as an african-american and, yet, when it came time to sue howard university, because they denied her access to the master's
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program, she's a white woman again. that, to me, belies all of her arguments. >> pretty much. >> that simple thing. >> that dismantles the transgender comparison, by the way. >> totes. >> the ability to switch on a moment's notice for your own benefit, back to someone else you said you abandoned, she can do that. transgender people can't do that. you can't say, i'm going to abandon this is concept, that i wanted to transition in gender. >> thank you all for being with us. two near fatal shark attacks at a north carolina beach is what some people reportedly want to do to the sharks that is touching off a controversy. tonight, we'll tell you about it and talk to an expert who calls the plan a terrible idea.
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tonight, a controversial response to those near-fatal shark attacks in north carolina. two teenagers were bitten within 90 minutes. both were in waist-high water when attacked. bystanders helped save their lives. by all accounts, a terrifying scene. life changing for the teens and their families. now, according to the los angeles times, the town manager
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of oak island says beach patrollers are prepared to kill any sharks that exhibit aggressive behavior. joining me is the curator of the international shark attack file. george, what do you make of this idea of basically looking for any aggressive sharks, however that's defined, and killing them? >> pretty archaic approach to a situation. this response was something you would have expected in 1950. not this year. of course, the chances of you finding the culprit or culprits, as they may be, is like chasing a needle in the hay stack. the only reason you go after sharks at this point is out of a sense of revenge, i suppose. >> it's interesting. it's exactly what happened in the movie "jaws." people freaked out about the shark attacks and went out to kill sharks. they're defining aggressive behavior as darting in and out of the surf line or swimming within 100 feet of the beach. is that aggressive behavior? >> every day, there's thousands of sharks that are swimming in and amongst swimmers along beaches from miami up through north carolina. if that's the case, essentially, all sharks are eligible for shooting. >> that's one of the things you and i talked about last night in the wake of the shark attacks. most people have actually had
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encounters with sharks. you said most people have been -- if they've been swimming in the ocean, they've been within six or seven feet of a shark and didn't know it. >> the fact of the matter is most of the encounters don't result in any bites to humans. the sharks recognize humans as being a non-normal prey item and move away. that doesn't mean that bites don't occur, and obviously, on occasion, a series of bites do. we certainly feel bad for the victims. >> is there anything that can be done? i mean, is there anything you would recommend? >> well, what needs to be done is heightened awareness on the beach, among beach safety personnel, and education efforts to get the people understanding better where and when to be in the water. those aren't things that happen overnight. there's no instant solution. other than keeping people out of the water in an effected area for a period of time. that certainly would be the strategy i would employ. >> george, i appreciate you being with us.
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george burgess, thank you very much. more is happening tonight. amber has a bulletin. tropical storm is pounding texas with flooding in some areas. up to a foot of rain is possible in places. this is a double whammy for the houston area still recovering from flooding last month. a balcony collapsed in california. seven are hospitalized with serious injuries. most victims are students from anderson tropical storm bill is pounding with flooding rains. this is an area that's still recovering from deadly flooding last month. >> six people are dead after a balcony collapsed in berkley, california.
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most of the victims are students from ireland. and a saint lewis cardinals are being investigated by the f.b.i. for allegedly hacking into computers and trying to steal information about players and trades. the new york times reporting the suspected hacking was done leaving the cardinals to become the astro's general manager. the fda has announced tgs giving the food industry three years to e lichl nate art ri clogging transfats. health officials say it will save thousands o of lives. take a look at this. those are crabs. thousands of tiny crabs covering acres and acres of newport beach. they are nate ifr to baja california. they were first reported in san diego and then made their way north. >> cameron, thanks very much. we'll be right back.
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ireland. the st. louis cardinals are being investigated by the fbi for allegedly hacking into the computers the astros and trying to steal information about nd the donald wants to be the president of the united states. donald wants to be the president of the united states. his big annoyance and his jabs at current politicians. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. thank you for joining us. i'm rosemary church. >>