tv CNN Tonight W Ith Don Lemon CNN July 7, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
well, that does it for us. we'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. eastern for another edition of "360." >> cosby under fire. what will the tarnished legend do now. shocking revelations he admitted giving seven prescriptions to women he wanted 20 have sex with. the man we knew as america's dad has never been criminally charged, but will he finally
have to face his accusers in court. tonight, we're going to have to talk to some of them. also, c oorosby's defenders says innocent until proven guilty. we have a whole lot to get to, but i, again, want to begin with breaking news about the gun used to kill steinly. good evening to both of you. sarah, breaking news out there in san francisco tonight. what can you tell me. >> don, we've learned from a source that have talked to us today that the close to the investigation, that has knowledge of the investigation. who told us that the gun that was used in this case by allegedly one sanchez actually belonged to a federal agent.
appare apparently, it was traced back. he stepped on it, picked it up. it was wrapped in a t shirt,-sh. the latest is that that gun apparently belonged to a federal agent. this is all happening and coming out as sanchez made his very first court appearance today. he was asked whether or not he was guilty of the murter and he said not guilty. >> that's right. and, also, in that interview, and we should make this very clear. he did a couple of different jailhouse interviews. and he's not consistent at all with hi e his story. it has changed several times. sometimes it seems like he doesn't understand the question, not in english or spanish his native language. he had an interpreter interpreting every single word
into spanish. he didn't seem to understand very schism questions. like when the judge asked him about court dates, h he just ke answering not guilty. his attorney was asked, a public defender, did say that he's got about a second grade education, don. but that he did understand the chauj charges against him, though he did not seem to be understanding everything that was going on in court, even with that interpreter. there was a lot more going on in this case. we should mention the victim and the victim's family. they say they want nothing to do with this big political fight. they are simply trying to bury their daughter. this has been a very tragic event for the steinle family. >> can he be trying to change his defense here to an insanity defense?
he spoke in the interview very clear answers and now this? >> there are a couple issues here, don. number one, the nature of the crime loenends itself to a posse insanity defense. not only that, but we may be looking at an incompetency issue here. insanity deals with at the time of the crime, did he not understand the nature and consequences or did he not appreciate the wrongfulness. incompetency is a different issue. there are many cases where you here word of an insanity defense because they say well, this is somebody just trying to get out of a crime. but one of the factors here that jumps out right away is the senselessness of the crime. the randomness of the crime. there was no real motive apparent from the crime. they didn't know each other. so we may be seeing not only an insanity defense, but a claim of
incompetency to stand trial. and then, as a third possible issue, certainly as to these confessions that we've seen on video, i expect the defense attorney to raise the issue of the language barrier. did he understand and make a knowing and voluntary confession if he fully couldn't understand the language? each of those three issues i expected under these particular facts will come up. >> that's interesting because it was in spanish. let me ask you about this new information that sarah got about the gun traced to a federal agent or agency. does this impact the case at all? >> it doesn't in terms of charging this defendant. but it may mean that somebody else is going to be on the hook and soon. the first inquiry is this. when talking about a firearm, and we only know that it was traced to a federal agent is, is it number one his duty firearm? the one that he's issued. or, number two, is it a personal use firearm that he bought to
keep at home. if it is his duty firearm, without knowing the particular e particular federal agency, i can virtually guarantee that any agency is going to have a procedure for not only if you lose a firearm, you must report it and do it in a documented way: i have to mention that is the rule across the board for every federal agency. on the other hand, if it is a private weapon, in california, all private sales must be routed through a licensed dealer. with some exception. for example, father-to-son transfers, a husband-to-wife transfers. these are possible ways that a trail could potentially go cold. so the first inquiry is what kind of gun, what agency and was it a duty firearm or the result of some private sale. >> all right, thank you very much. i want to get now to the very latest on our other big news now. bill cosby i want to bring in. montgomery county pennsylvania commissioner, a decade ago when
he was a district attorney, he declined to bring charges against bill cosby and he joins me now by phone. i want to ask queyou about this you didn't bring charges back in 2005 because you didn't have enough evidence. what do you think now? >> well, we still wouldn't have enough evidence. the revelations that came out of the depositions was part of a revelation because we were able to take away the fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination. so the choice i had when we realized and didn't have enough evidence because of the year delay and no forensics, the choice i had was to say nothing.
by taking the laddtter course, took away the possibility for claiming the fifth amendment and i'm happy to see that that is, in fact, the case. i wasn't able to comment on it until -- >> until after it was unsealed. so let me ask you this. speaking of the deposition, here's what he said during this 2005/2006 deposition. he said when you got the quaaludes, was it in your mind that you were going to use these quaaludes for young women that you want today have sex with. cosby replies yes. so, hearing that, do you see some sort of criminal charges brought against cosby based on this newly-released document or information? >> not in montgomery county, not in the case that i had. they might be able to use that
as part of the common scheme plan or design in the other cases. but under pennsylvania law, in order to use a statement made by a suspect against them, you have to first be able to prove that a crime was committed. once a crime -- you can prove a crime was committed, then you can use so-called confessions or statements against the suspect. so there's nothing that's going to make this into a criminal case on sex july charges, based on the newly discovered transcripts. it does not mean that we're totally out of the box here. anything he said in that deposition back in ' 05 would be subject to perjury.
>> that was the question. why did people -- many people wondered why did he say that? why did he supposedly tell the truth about quaaludes? i'm wondering if someone knew something about how he acquired the drugs and he had to tell the truth about it. >> i think a little bit of a twist on that. i think it's likely that he lied to his own lawyers about other criminal behavior and his lawyers told him not to say anything that was false based on the assertion from cosby, that he wasn't involved in any criminal behavior. and he also thought that the deposition would never become public. you always have to wonder, when you're under oath, does the person asking questions know more than you do? so it's very risky to not tell
the truth for fear you could be locked up for perjury. >> appreciate that one. i want to move on now and talk to glor ya. thanks for joining this show right now. it's almost unfathomable to say 17 of cosby's alleged victims and there are five women with suits against your client, judy huff. could we see some more cases? >> i guess it's possible. i don't know that it's probable because of the statute of limitations. because of this arbitrary time period which is different in every state, different for adults who have been sexually abused as adults, different if they've been sexually abused as children. so it's really hard to say. i had someone new contact me today. but i doept knn't know where th
going to go. we'll have to see. i think the likelihood is not high that they're going to be new cases. most of the cases that have been filed are defamation cases, except for the one that i have filed and that i am litigating on behalf of judy huff. it's a case where she alleges child sexual abuse. she alleges she was 15 years old when mr. cosby created sexual acts kwens e against her. >> are there any circumstances where cosby might be arrested or end up in jail. >> okay. as to criminal liability, i think gloria would agree, it's highly unlikely. here's why more so than a civil case. a prosecutor has the challenge of the burden, beyond a reasonable doubt. and you just heard from the words of bruce castor, the former district attorney, in the area where i practice, the philadelphia area, he's a montgomery county vet.
in this case, they did not have enough evidence. it was a year later. there was not enough, in his opinion, to prosecute. however, a civil case is an entirely different matter. and, because there is the -- there is the lower burden and the fact that really creative plaed pleading, a creative theory of your case, could get you passed the statute of limitations if you plead the kraegt e correcor action. that's why we're seeing things like defamation cases. the reality is there's just no way around the statute of limitations in most of these cases in most of these states. it simply has been too long. to get this case before any court will require a creative theory of liability on the zifrl sierd. >> okay. i want you to listen to -- this is cosby's famous 2004 -- because the judge, that's when the judge used this example of taking the moral high dwround.
it's part of the reason why he unsealed thoo documents. take a listen. >> where were you when he was 18 and how come you don't know he had a pistol? these are not political criminals. these are people going iing coc. people getting shot in the back of the head for a piece of pound cake. and then we run on outrage oh, he shouldn't have been shot. what was he doing with the pound cake in his hand. >>. >> the judge went through a deiled analysis of the law. the attorneys, during their
deposition bickering decided to file motions for sanctions and they just cut and pasted portions of that tript. but the judge here concluded that cosby should be treated not as a private person, but as a public figure. not guilty becau not because he's a celebrity, not because he's a comedian, but because he chose to insert himself into a public dialogue. which is a false nating position for a judge to take. you could equally argue that any social commentator injects himself up to the level or raises himself to the level of public figure and the public figure is, like, well, the comparison that was made is this is like a senator or a politician. and he said, essentially, that cosby is throwing himself into the fray with things like his pound cake speech, which he cited in the memorandum opinion, was an example of cosby taking himself from comedian and making
himself a politician. >> gloria,i have to run. but this is certainly, you believe, is going to help your case? >> oh, absolutely. if and when we're able to take his deposition, which we hope we're able to do, then i'm going to use some of these bomb shell comments from his prior deposition that he will be forced to sit down and have, in the case involving judy huff. so we're looking forward to that day. we want her day in court. we want justice for judy and we want justice for all of the other alleged victims, however they can get it, as well. >> gloria, thank you. we've got a lot more on this coming up. coming up, i'm going to talk to cosby's accusers. and hillary clinton's exclusive
sooimpx. more than two dozen women accused bill cosby of assaulting them over the last 40 years. thank you, ladies. i wish we were talking under better circumstances. you know, how are you handling this? he had the equivalent of seven prescriptions of quaaludes. how are you handling it? >> i'm handling it by being shocked that he finally admitted the truth. he was forced into being honest and that it was released. that's the shocking part. i want to just congratulate the judge who agreed to let the world in on this. >> did you ever think in a million years that you'd be sitting here on international television talking about this? >> no, no, never. not to bill cosby admitted to
getting seven prescription of quaaludes. >> i never lost hope. i knew some way, some day, the truth would come out. the thing is, it's remarkable what he master minded. it was decades of deceit and manipulation and not just with his victims, but with the people around him. all of the minds that he ma nip lated. you know, it was -- >> let's talk about some of the people who supported him, initially. some still supported him. first off, barbara. and then this is going to be for you. remember actress and singer jill scott? she was an ardent defender when all of these allegations were coming forward.
about bill cosby, sadly his own testimony offers his deeds which is all i required. she went onto say i stood by a man i respected and loved. i was wrong. it hurt when you get it all right, meaning when you get everything all right to the public, holler. so what do you think -- you've been called a liar all of these years, what do you think of comments like that sdm. >> well, a couple of things. first of all, you know, when you have accepted and grown up with an icon, that is something in your life, that is realitily the fabric of your existence and your morality and the way you
look at life -- when something comes crashing down on you like that, it's very, very difficult to shift your thinking. you're mourning the death of a part of your own life. and there's a lot of elements to that. there's a lot of denial. there's fear. it's shattering illusion. we're dealing with a man who has had a very strong circle of protection. he's also not a stupid man and understood who to deflect attention away from the facts. and, in my personal opinion is that some of his strategies of having moral integrity and trying to express that he's a
cultural expert on family life and good morals was just another reflection. >> we haven't heard from his wife. do you think it is time to hear from her? >> oh, don, i'm so glad you asked that question. i don't know that i'm the person to answer that question. i have my own theories, i have my own opinions. and i will say this. that i would say that it is time to reach out and probe at the enablers and the handlers in this world. i'm going to give you a global yes. >> i agree. i mean, i think she had their own motives for being silent the
fact that she's been married to him for maybe 25 years. i don't want to discuss what her motives are, because they're not really pleasant. but i think she may have been excited about being camill camille cosby. >> talking about this, because you're saying people who were defending him and, also, you believe that people were enablers. this is in your words. a big talker on -- i don't know if you guys saw "the view" this morning, take a listen. >> i don't really like to talk about it that much because he's the reason i'm on this panel in the first place. he gave me my first job. but, at the same time, you need the proof and then i'll be able to give my judgementmement here there. >> i don't like snap judgments because i've had snap judgments made on me. so i'm very, very careful. in america, still, i know
it's a shock, but we're actually innocent until proven guilty. he has not been proven. >> so i have to say this. whoopi is a friend of mine. and on this one issue of the public eye, people often say things about you that are not true. when he has admitted under oath that he intended to use these drugs, how much information do you have to believe before -- or that maybe the drugs were consensual. >> is this a snap decision? 49 women coming forward and saying the same thing is a snap decision? i don't see it that way. i see it as an outstanding barrel of evidence. women that didn't know each other.
women from different parts of the country. who's making a snap decision here? >> i would like to add something to that. i'm a mother of teenagers. and one of the basic less sons that i teach both of my teenagers, daughter, 13, a son, 15. it's one thing to be alert and aware in the world and sharp and takt kal. it's another thing to be cunning and sly, a liar and fall under the radar and be a manipulator and learn how to work the system in a way that works to your advantage, regardless of the consequences that it has on others. and that's really what we're talking about. there's no cut and dry. and i have nothing personal to say about whoopi goldberg or anyone else that might have those opinions.
but, you know, let's face it. this is not a cut and dry situation. any perpetrator, any thief, any person who gets away with stuff, it isn't always cut and dry. let's face it, also, bill cosby is not a stupid man. he wouldn't have been able to get away all of cha what he's gotten away with all of this time if he were stupid. so it takes a sly mind, it takes a sharp mind, to be able to maneuver through the weeds of the law and right behavior. >> barbara, we'll continue on with this conversation. i think both of you are. >> thank you, don. >> i'm sure we will. >> aprieshuate the opportunity. >> we have much more to come on bill cosby. when we come back, dr. drew penske is here and i wanted to ask him about those quaalude
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bill cosby for america's lovable dad. but, now, more than two dozen women have come forward accusing him of rape and assault. i've been wanting to speak to you about this because he admitted that he acquired seven prescriptions for quaaludes to get to women that he want today have sex with. first of all, i don't know how he got them, but describe to our viewers what quaaludes do to you. >> i'd like to know who these physicians are. but after the essentiallies, they were essentially gone. they're related to barbiturates. the valium-like drugs took over. but a quaalude is a medication that causes memory difficulty, severe intoxication, sleep and sort of an atonic muscular situation where people are sort of floppy.
you'll notice a lot of these women describe that. they dribbleescribed two or thrs and they were out. the other substance that's been implicated is ghb. ghb is a common substance that's sort of day rape drugs. joan, who he had sitting there, i talked to earlier this evening on my program, and says she thinks she was exposed to ben strks odiazapeme. . >> is this quaalude a drug that is used for is ex? >> at one time, it was. in fact, there's a lot of lure of people calling it for something that was used for drug
facilitated sexual assault. now, we look at this with absolute horror. but i'm telling you, there was a cultural moment there that we need to take noet of, when a woman can say she was raped, step up, tell her boss and they told her to shut up. this is just unbelievable the way we used to treat women. and this is sort of symptomatic of what was going on at that time. >> let's talk about his behavior. he's clearly living a double life. >> he's note the first artist to do that. you can't take away the impact his programs did, in fact, have. there was a positive impact that he was a central part of. >> does this negate all the good that came from that? >> it doesn't negate it nor
measure against it. he soert of fits a profite. a lot of them are older, in middle ages of life. i keep hearing that there were other men around sometimes when he'd offer these women drinks. it sort of fits a profile where men fit a title. they want to be completely dominant. that's, in fact, if these allegations are true, what he was able to carry out. >> do you think he -- people can tell themselves things over and over so much that they believe it. do you think that may be the ace? >> in a way, that's sort of dismissing the depravity. yes, there was a cultural moment, yes, there's a psychological crisis here.
>> we asked people on social media what they wanted to ask you. overall, they said how would you characterize cosby's behavior? >> well, again, it's this drug-facilitated sexual assault which is a syndrome that's not that well studied. when there's serial rape, i would call it, you know, people want to call it sociopathy. you certainly see the that are narcissism. and the lack of empathy is the most serious liability associated with narcissistic personality constructs. >> coming up, an exclusive interview with cnn. hillary clinton takes a swipe at donald trump for his inflammatory remarks about mexican imgramts.
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davis, mr. madden, who has worked for mitt romney's campaign as among others. >> let's take a listen. >> i'm very disappointed in those comments. and i feel very bad and very disappoint disappointed with him and the republican party for not responding immediately and saying enough. stop it. but they are all in the same general area on immigration. they don't want to provide a path to citizenship. they range across a spectrum of either being grudgely welcome.
i'm going to talk about comprehensive immigration reform, i'm going to talk about all of the good, law-abiding, productive members of immigrant community that i personally know that i've met over the course of my life that i would like to see have a path to citizenship. >> i give her a ten for pivot. that was a goot pivot. so what's your reaction to her? >> well, first of all, she looks great. i any that's the hillary clinton that so many people appreciate. she did answer the question. she's disappointed. and she did a pivot and talked about issues that people care about. so it was a good answer. >> you know, she also said that the whole group, the whole gop,
all of the candidates are on the spectrum of being grudgingly welcomed or hostile towards immigrants. is that a little harsh? is she right? >> it's not quite the full spectrum. it's a very narrow spectrum. but we can tell what she's up to. she can sort of attach donald trump to the rest of the party and sort of who what he says infects the rest of the folks who are running. she wishes that they would have come out immediately. but the others, in no uncertain terms come out and condemned him. but we see what she's up to. they very well know that jeb bush has some strengths among latino voters. so they want to damn the party, as a whole, right now.
>> look, fir of all, i was a little bit surprised. as a republican, i'm out raged by donald trump's remarks. i've labeled them as offensive. i think many other republicans have. she did have a big, technical pivot. what she wants to do is die tonld trumps sentiments to the rest of the party. jeb bush is married to a mexican american. marco rubio is the son of mexican immigrants; so is ted cruz. there are going to be a number that stand up and offer a much more modernized approach. i still think she's going to
have a -- she sees it as a huge opportunity. i think a number of these republicans are going to fight back. >> i have to ask you, do you think it's the right strategy and they're stating how they feel? do you think it's the right strategy to back away from donald trump? he seems to have connected to what some people in the voting public, how they feel about imgrants? >> i'm also the son of immigrants, irish immigrants. you wi i think it's more important not to become away, but to confront donald trump. we absolutely have to fix a broken season system. . >> we're not done yet.
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grows. today, guys, pga decided to move its 2016 grand slam of golf from trump's los angeles golf course. and then today, there's this. a trump company may be relying on some undocumented workers to finish the new trump luxury hotel in washington dchlt c. >> ouch. you know, the gift that won't stop giving. i do agree with kevin and meehan. all the republicans have really stood up admirably. i do think on the pathway of citizensh citizenship, i greatly admire jeb bush. but he is not in favor of a pathway to citizenship the way
that senator, for example, senator mccain, over a period of time, should earn their way back. that will be an issue debated in the campaign. but the outrage towards trump, and, really, the racism is almost not add quote to describe what he said. i agree with kechb. the out rage should be on both sides. >> i think i'm surprised that it's gone on as much as it had. i think what's been interesting about trump is he came out and said he would be the greatest job creator that god ever created.
he's talking about how he's a great negotiator. companies in mexico are very up set with him. he's been very damaging. it's very hard for him to carry that message. >> and his appeal and the reason he has stort of jumped to second place is that he seems like this truth teller, this straight talker. a no-nonsense guy. if you look at the donald trump collection, it's made in china. it's made in mexico. so now, what's introducing to this is hi pock ra sill. interesting toe see -- >> i want you to continue on with that, but let's listen to the donald. here he is. >> it is a bad subject in this country and people don't have the guts to address it.
>> that's what you're talking about. >> but it's also not true that people don't have the guts to talk about it. everybody's talking about it. they're just not talking about it in a way where they're trying to define the issue. instead, it's what's the solution? modernize our system. instead, it is a blustery persona for a while. it will be interesting to see if it lasts very long. >> the issues that should be debated, rather than focusing on trump, which is exactly why he wants this kind of a program. she did focus on the solution which is an earned pathway to citizenship. for millions and millions of people. that should be debated.
but that's the issue that she usually does focus on. >> yeah, i'm really out of time here. but democrats, like hillary and others, is that the way that they're going to have to focus on, too? >> yeah, i think so. it was a smart move. i think the big question for republicans is how long does trump last? does he rast until the debate sta state? many are hoping that he gives up really soon. >> thank you. i'll see you all back here many times. >> donald trump sits down for an exclusive interview tomorrow night, "ac 360," of course, right here on cnn. when i started at the shelter, i noticed benny right away. i just had to adopt him. he's older so he needs my help all day. when my back pain flared up we both felt it i took tylenol at first but i had to take 6 pills to get through the day. then my friend said "try aleve".
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