tv The Hunt With John Walsh CNN July 17, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
has been evacuated or evacuation orders in place. eight, more than a dozen cars burned out there. you've are seeing the fire still going on. being battled from the air. and also on the ground. stay tuned to cnn throughout the night for updates on this. thank you for joining us. cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. shocking information about the chatanooga shooter. shocking new information about the chatanooga shooter as america mourns four slain marines. this is "cnn tonight." investigators digging through dozens of tips desperately trying to get inside the mind of a killer. here's what we are learning now, mohammod youssuf abdulazeez got a job in a nuclear plant in ohio in 2013 but was dismissed after ten days. traveled to the middle east recently as last year. a long time friend tells cnn something happened while he was away that changed him. he also says abdulazeez had guns and would go shooting as a hobby. police seized after the shooting
three at the scene, one at the shooter's home. plus, we'll have an update on that spectacular wildfire. look at that in california. we'll get to that. but i want to begin with our breaking news on the investigation of the chatanooga shootings. cnn's evan perez has more now. good evening to you, evan. what do you know about mohammod youssuf abdulazeez's job at the nuclear power plant? >> don, this job was a provisional job. it lasted about, for about ten days. he worked as an engineer if you recall. he had an engineering degree from the university of tennessee-chatanooga. according to first energy he worked at a nuclear power plant in perry, ohio, for about ten days, in 2013. according to the company, according to first energy, he was dismissed because he did not meet their minimum requirements. now, they're not saying what those minimum requirements were. associated press which first reported the story described it as failing a background check.
the company says that is not so. they say that they're not going to describe what this was. but they have reported it to the nuclear regulatory commission. and to the investigators who were investigating the shooting yesterday. >> evan, can you tell us about these weapons and the equipment that abdulazeez had? >> we had four, in all he had four fire farms seized. at the scene, two long guns, one 9 millimeter. at the home which they searched after the shooting they found an additional rifle. we're told investigators believe that these were firearms he had for some time. these were not something that were purchased recently. we do know the fbi is very much interested to figure out who helped him obtain the firearms and whether or not there is any crime committed there that could be charges brought against anybody who may have helped him with that? >> any more you can tell us about the guns or how he obtained the weapons? >> it's not clear whether or not the fbi is not saying, right now what they're frying to figure out, don is in the transfer of
the firearms if that was done properly, the paperwork was done properly. if not they want to bring charges. >> what's the fbi saying about how he died? >> they're saying, what we first reported here don. charlotte police killed him during this massive fire fight which, you know is incredible now, now that we are learning a little bit more about it. they chased him into that second, second scene of the second shooting, the second shooting which was a naval training center. they finally cornered him and were able to bring him down only after an extensive fire fight which i believe you will show video of later in your show. it is incredible scene. and according to the fbi the police officers saved lives by killing him there. >> evan perez. thank you. nick payton walsh is in amman, jordan. mohammod youssuf abdulazeez had a temporary passport.
"the new york times" and reports that abdulazeez spent seven months in jr. dordan last year. what can you tell us about that? >> we know he was here to visit his uncle. exact plly where that meeting happened in the middle eastern country. don, i think they're looking deeply now into the paperwork. you've mentioned jordanian travel documents. uncommon for some one of palestinian heritage, palestinian parents to have a jordanian passports of sorts. he did it traveled here on the u.s. passport a number of times. in 2010, number of months in 2014. what they'll be looking at, what he did when he was here, who he spoke to? did as many people have done, used jordan as a transit hub to go on to iraq where we know there were a lot of extremists, isis included? did he, less common travel north into syria from jordan where also isis is clearly an issue?
or go some where else in the region into? jordan itself while it has the pockets of radical its m and has had radicals around in its past, not a hotbed of isis is itself. authorities here are pretty tight on that. that is though exactly what they're looking into now, with american counterparts. who did he talk to when he was here, don? >> roll iteeuters is reporting have traveled to yemen, what's the significance? >> yemen is any many ways the key des natitination of yemen wracked by internal turmoil. significantly worse, saudi arabians, bombing campaign inside the country. where al qaeda and the arabian peninsula have their headquarters where isis sprung up recently. if you want to yemen, investigators will hone in on that. we don't know if he did right now. it would be a place where he may go to learn skills, be radicalized. i have to say what you are seeing in the attack in
tennessee. doesn't show bomb making or something else you would pick up necessarily in al qaeda or isis training camp. i think they'll be looking more closely into what ideological change maze have hs may have ha you mentioned the friend who said he changed. >> nick paton walsh, amman. >> now, drew griffin, in chatanooga with more on the shooter and his family. good evening, drew. i know you have been looking into mohammod youssuf abdulazeez's past all day. some notice aid change when he got back from the middle east, didn't they? >> yeah, this all conforming with what the fbi is doing, what investigators are doing, even your day in self is trying to find out what went on during his extended visits to the middle east. the reason is as a friend told us a long time friend, a kid who grew up with mohammod youssuf abdulazeez, that after he came back from those trips the friend told us, something happened over there. he noticed a change in his long time friend who was suddenly
distancing himself. let me read you this quote. he never became close to me like he was before he went overseas. reiterating, don, that something happened. obviously, the investigators we, chatanooga, looking for anything that would try to explain why this person snapped or was given some kind of ideology behind what is a mass killing. right now they don't have it. but they're, they're really, really chasing these lead pretty hard. >> drew, sometimes as you know. sometimes family life can tell a lot about someone. can reveal a lot about someone. what are you learning about the family? there was a divorce case, right? >> yeah. this was a typical american muslim family. devout family. but in 2009, there were serious marital troubles in the family. the mother, filed for divorce. and in those papers accused her
husband, mohammod youssuf abdulazeez's father of physical, mental, verbal, and sexual abuse. she said that the husband would also beat the kids. she said that the beatings were so bad at one time she fled to a woman's shelter. sought a temporary retraining order. but this all happened in one month, don. within that month. there was family intervention by who of her brothers. one of whom traveled from kuwait talked to the husband. they agreed to drop the entire case if the husband stopped beating the kids. stopped beating her, and went into counseling. that apparently took place. and so the divorce did not go through. but there was a very chaotic time back in 2009 within this family. >> that was on the domestic front. on the family front. what about this, suppose lead a fast fbi investigation into abdulazeez's father. is that true?
>> that is true. i think that is very much less serious. the father was gifving money to middle east charities. he was investigated briefly in 1999. quickly cleared up. and then after 200 -- 29/11 happened. he was investigated again because he gave money to charities. that was not uncommon then. a lot of people with middle east ties had been giving money to charities back in the middle east for years and years, decades. after 9/11. that all changed when the fbi and others began realizing some of the charity money may actually be going to nefarious activities. so they wanted to clamp down on that. in both cases, investigation took place. no charges were filed whatsoever. and, and nothing ever happened to the father. >> all right. in the days leading up to the shooting, what have you learned tonight about what -- his behavior or activities?
>> it all seemed pretty normal. he was working at a job in the nashville area. he had apparently called in sick or took vacation days this past weak to come down for the final week of ramadan to be with his family. he was visiting his family. friends and others tell us he was attending mosque prayers. locally here over the weekend. and even -- one as late as tuesday. he was in town. it was a visit. he was visiting with his family. nobody apparently saw anything radically change add but this guy. in fact, he seemed to be doing okay fine. so we didn't see any changes in his behavior then. there was one dui, we have been talking about. back in april of this year. erratic driving. was pulled over. smelled alcohol. they smelled marijuana.
white poud ewder across his lip. he said was crushed caffeine. the toxicology tests have not come back yet. that was out of character for him. his first real run in with the law. that was in a roll of the year. don. >> drew griffin, in chatanooga. thank you. breaking news out of california. take a look at this. spectacular blaze. in san bernardino county. it jumped the i-15 freeway engulfed multiple cars. a miracle only two people were injured. minor injuries. at least 70 cars abandoned on the free way. 20 vehicles were destroyed. 10 damaged. a seeing the to see though. lack at that. unbelievable. five homes have burned. 50 more are threatened. all the cars on the freeway have been put out. look these are live pictures you are lacking at from san bernardino county -- looking at from san bernardino county in california. unbelievable pictures. when we come right back, more on our breaking news from chatanooga. the latest on the investigations into the fatal shooting of four
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really the entire country is mourning right now. want to bring in mike sanavassa, he served with thomas sullivan, and now military adviser in kabul, afghanistan, he joins me via skype. mike, thank you for joining us. really appreciate you joining us tonight. >> your'swell k're welcome. no problem. >> how are you doing? >> doing okay. early in the morning here in kabul. devastated over the new that i heard yesterday when i got up. >> tell us about gunnery sergeant thomas sullivan. [ indiscernible audio ] -- i took over as battery gun gunnery sergeant. he was just the greatest person you ever want to know. a selfless leader a the time he was a fairly young marine, lance corporal sergeant, if i
remember. gunny was just like i said. a selfless leader eer give you shirt off his back. hardest worker in the battery. alwaysaccomplish. everybody loved sully. they respected him. it is a huge loss for mat reasons that he served with, especially for his family. and i'm just heartbroken over this. >> yeah, understood. that's completely understandable you. know, mike, i know he received, two purple hearts. how many tours of duty did he serve? >> my understanding, after 2002, we both went separate ways. but we kept in touch over the years. but it is my understanding that gunny served four tours, four comb batt combat tours wounded twice in action. so for him to be killed in the
states, makes it even harder to understand. you know, especially after surviving two combat wounds. >> i understand that he fought in the battle of abu garib? >> he did. i believe that was his second purple heart. he was wounded before abu garib, a huge battle, he was wounded in that battle as well. once again, stayed with his marines, even after bei finishe tour. obviously that took a lot of courage. he was just a strong individual. just strong character. strong heart. and incredible guy. >> yeah. >> via skype. you are breaking up a little bit. it is understandable. we are coming to us from so far away. you know, you mention how you
were doing. you're in afghanistan tonight. what's been the reaction there to the -- to the shootings? >> well, all of us are heartbroken over this. we just, we, we, our prayers and our thoughts are with everybody back home. we have a mission here to do, working with the afghans, the afghan army that is, so we are just are thinking abut eve ingi everybody back home and praying for them. >> sergeant sullivan any brother, joe, owns a bar, the bar is nathan's bills, nathan bills in his hometown of springfield, massachusetts. and there is a flag there. they posted these pictures of him on their facebook page. and he was a -- he was a real hometown hero wasn't he? we'll get the pictures. he was a real hometown hero wasn't he? >> well i'm sure he was.
sully was liked by everybody. you know, like i said, he was a selfless person. give you the shirt off his back. he was always willing to help people out. but yet he was a disciplined marine. who was well respected by his peers. and always went above and beyond to accomplish the mission. everybody loved sully. >> yep. thank you very much, mike santivassi, joining us from kabul, afghanistan. appreciate it here on cnn. joining me julio pedraza, david axford, friends of slain marine skip wells. gentlemen. thank you for joining me this evening. how are you doing, julio? >> hanging in there. hanging in there, definitely. >> david, how are you doing? >> it has been a weird and difficult day, but like julio said, i'm hanging in there as well. >> julio, i am sorry about the loss of your friend in this terrible attack.
you were all in the rotc together. had skip always want to be in the military? >> since the day i met him. we met sophomore year in high school. i was running the rotc program there. he didn't really get into rotc until his senior year in high school. he was marching in band. ever since i met hip. first words out of his mouth was, he has extensive family that have served in the military. he was really proud of his mother who was in the navy. he was telling me he was basically going to go marine corps all the way. >> i want to read, david, this is from skip's mom, a statement. my son died doing what he loved for the love of his country and his family. what can you tell me about skip? skip in a word was the happiest person i have probably ever encountered. whenever you talk to him or just sat with him he always had a smile on his face. he always wanted to talk to-up
about how you were doing, and if something was wrong, he always wanted to make you feel better. he was just the happiest person. he made everyone else around him happier. >> you know we have just heard a little bit about sergeant sullivan, very experience mad reason. skip was just starting out his career. so what did he have in common -- what did he have ahead of him, i should say, david? >> ahead of him? i would say that he -- like mike said about the gunnery sergeant -- skip was just such a trooper. he would do everything with a pech in h pepe in his step and smile on his face. such a happy guy. when we would go pt on the football field. he would be leading the pack. doing one of the people, the most pushups, most sit-ups. afterwards be smiling about it.
he was just such a fighter. he carried out everything he did with a smile on his face. and that nothing was going to stop him. >> he made everybody look bad. >> yeah. >> he was so good at it. >> jewsince the day you met him wanted to join the rotc. did he xeever express fear abou joining the military? >> not at all. he embraced it. from day one. he had no problems, discussing the military. what he wanted to do, give back to the country. i remember -- when his first year of college came around, it was, he was telling me basing low he wasn't okay with just sitting around and taking the classes. like he wanted to make a difference. he wanted to do something. at which point that's when he went ahead and, and enlisted, and joined mat reasothe marines. >> thank you, guys. our hearts are with you. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you. >> when we come right back, was isis behind the deadly
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and also looking closely at his trips to the middle east. let's take with michael weiss, senior editor at "the daily beast" and co-author of "isis inside the army of terry roar" and a former fbi agent and founder and ceo of south asia middle east con suitasultants, always want to call you michael weiss. >> happens all the time. >> okay, great. breaking news, mohammod youssuf abdulazeez was employed at a nuclear plant in ohio ten days before being let go. what questions do you have about that? >> will he wasn't in a secure part of the nuclear facility it would appear. i don't think there was ever any danger to the public. but nevertheless pretty concerning to hear that given what has now transpired with these, with the shootings, don. >> so, we had new cell phone video from a woman who recorded
the shots being fired during the chatanooga attacks. i want you guys to watch this. >> my goodness, that is a terrifying scene there. does law enforcement now have a handle on stopping these lone wolf actors? >> yeah, i think it is a real tough thing. with the issues of radicalization. you have individuals that identify with the countries of birth and other locations. so they have a big issue with america's foreign policy. they're going after american soldiers. and i think identify with other individuals from other countries and their issues. and you know as he said in one of his blogs he is focused in the afterlife and considers it his duty to do something about this american foreign policy that he disagrees with.
so, radicalization is a tough problem. the white house had a summit within the last year. i still don't think they have any good solutions on some of these, use. >> to that point though, you have to know about it, by all accounts. unless you are watching him very closely. he didn't really exhibit any signs of someone who had been radicalized? >> actually that is the real problem. in america, a great country where we have excellent freedoms now. you have all of these guys, he is getting more pious, he is traveling overseas. none of these in themselves are going to draw that much attention to him. it's really looking at the family. did they notice or did he start speaking of violent extremist acts? a very tough issue for american law enforcement and this idea of isis and radicalization, these lone actors. this is going to continue to be a problem for us in the future. >> indeed. we will discuss in moments here
"cnn tonight." >> michael, the gunman wasn't on a terror watch list. the field says they don't know of any links to terror groups. the chairman of the homeland committee said this was an isis inspired attack. he had this to say. listen. >> there are isis investigations in all 50 states across the united states of america. they're permeating our society and this country through the internet. and through social media. it is very, very difficult to stop it. and i believe yesterday, unfortunately, we couldn't. we want to take the fight to them, over in syria and iraq. to stop them from doing what they did yesterday. we need to drain the swamp so we don't have to swat the mosquitoes over here. >> what's your take on that? >> look, it is very difficult to say who inspired this guy. i mean it was, was it al qaeda inspired. isis inspired. i will say this though.
the atmospherics if you look of jihadism in the past, two, three years. particularly, emphasizing with the found iing of the caliphate. they don't think they have interrupted a plotted terrorist attack. either inspired by isis, or the so-called self radicalized lone wolf attacks. what i find interesting about this particular example is this guy had on his blog, or at least what we think is his blog it hasn't yet been confirmed i guess. certain cadences and turns of phrases that remind me actually of al baghdady, first ramadan sermon delivered in mosul almost a year ago today. he talked about the attacker in chatanooga talked about the prison of al -dunha. and al baghdady talked about the
prison, the certain parallels. that doesn't mean anything beyond maybe this guy googled his way into jihad. it is very difficult if you want to become fa thnat it is very difficult if you want to become fa thnaical muslim no to come across isis propaganda or isis ideology. so permeated social media. in this respect, mccall has a point. again we mustn't draw these conclusions immediately. i don't want americans to go to bd tonight thinking isis is sleeping under their mattresses. it's not quite that stark. >> it is easy for them to sort of penetrate america or anywhere. >> for sure. >> anywhere in the country because of the internet. you wanted to weigh in on these blogs? >> yeah, you know the blog would make him appear to be a fundamentalist. but it is nothing now which necessarily points to support
for al qaeda or isis. there seem to be some sympathy for jihad in what he is saying he is saying, look, we muslims need to realize that the companions of the prophet of mohamed at the beginning of islam were jihadis. they weren't priests in some monetaries he was saying -- monasteries he was saying. sympathy for jihad. we weren't seeing pledge allegiance to isis or al baghdadee. we have seen that in other attacks. notably in garland, texas. where one of the shooters actually tweeted out a pledge of allegiance to baghdadi before carrying out at take. we saw a similar dynamic in an attack in copenhagen in february. and of course in paris, the attacker of the kosher market he recorded a video before attacking the market in which he pledged allegiance to isis.
in this case the shooter has not positioned himself to kind of allow isis to easily take ownership. >> yeah, also, and in the cases you mentioned. people who had traveled overseas to yemen, jordan, other places and we know investigators are looking into the shooter's travel to jordan, possibly yemen. and this is still an if at this point. if he wanted to meet with a terror group how easy would that have been? >> well it would definitely be easier than in the united states, obviously. when these second generation american citizens go back to their countries of birth, they really do find something that they might not have in the u.s. especially if they're not succeeding in the u.s. now he goes back overseas. and just even the average newspaper don't go to any extremists side. if you pick of average newspapers. look at the average media. there is a lot of anti-american things. they have pictures of babies being killed by u.s. soldiers. and these are everyday events.
then if you have your own family members talking to you about the big, big empire of america, and what they're doing overseas, this could have affected him. he might have taken it a step further. maybe going to extremist locations, yemen or syria and picking up more idea and just getting his head filled with more of this hate that he had. >> i want evan eryone to stay w me. we'll talk about this when we come back. much more on the shooter and the investigation. s all i was doing. so when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;
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investigators digging into the background of mohammod youssuf abdulazeez trying to piece together the picture of a young man who just in a few years apparently went from popular student to killer. the big question -- was this terrorism. back with me, michael weiss and guests. the media footprint is pretty small. we talked about his blog post. doesn't seem to be that much else, is it scarier that attackers learned to lay low online now? >> sure, or the other alternative is he decide to undertake this sort of act of barbarism rather recently. this wasn't somebody planning to become a terrorist.
or he just snapped. or moment of radicalization occurred rather quickly. or the point at which it reached critical mass occurred rather quickly. i don't think we are about to see groups like al qaeda or isis scale down on their use of social media. if anything they rely on this. this is the main campaign, disinformation and propaganda. in this instance, yeah it is rather remarkable. in all of these other lone wolf attacks or terrorist attacks, we have seen, you know a very long digital trail going back to facebook pages and twitter accounts. so i am rather surprised actually. then again, i mean, it hasn't been very long. you know i am sure people are digging for everything that they could possibly find about this guy. and you know, instagram accounts, pinterest and the rest of it. who knows what turns of in the next few days. >> i have to ask everyone. according to investigators there is not enough evidence now, or,
they don't know if it was radicalization. is that the assumption that everyone on this panel that this young man was radicalized. >> i believe he was radicalized to a violent degree. i mean, he, saw something whether it was his life was in dysfunction with him being fired from his job, not passing the background check which meant there was something there. something did radicalize hem to the point where he decided to use violence heft specifically targeted the american military. it wasn't just average citizens on the street. so i think that trip home probably had a lot to do with it. i think his own personal life issues had something to do with it. and i think if he wasn't succeeding in his life in america he figured that the afterlife he would be at least happy in the afterlife. i think that was his journey. a journey of violent extremism. >> before i go to the panelists. you said home, he spent most of his entire life here in the united states you. still say it is home for him? >> we do see this with a lot of
these violent extremists. even though we look at them as americans, some are american born citizens, they will not identify in terms of a lot of their idea with what american idea are. they look at life from the position of where their country of origin or heritage is. now i am not saying everybody is like that. but a lot of these violent extremists. >> i understand what you are saying. i understand what you are saying. paul go, ahead. do you think this was radicalization? >> certainly looks like that. if you think of the target, the u.s. military, if you think of the timing, the last day of ramadan, isis telling their supporters, around the world, that if they launch attacks during ramadan they would get ten times the rewards in the afterlife. and the afterlife seems to be something he was obsessed with. on the blog he talks about life being a test. either you are going to go into hell fire or paradise. we have seen this idea of rewards in the afterlife as a very big motivating factor for
almost all of these al qaeda, isis, islamist terrorist plots. they really truly believe they're going to get the reward in heaven. and not only that they believe that their friend and family may also get the same reward because of what they do. >> michael, i have some breaking news to got to. as close to a yes or no as possible. do you believe it was radicalization? >> undoubtedly. >> thank you. proosh all appreciate all of you. the violence in chatanooga is shocking. not the first time our military has been under attack at home. how do we protect our bases? and we'll talk to an agent that was shot in the attack in ft. hood. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security.
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update now on the breaking news out of san bernardino county in california. that fire that you are looking at. now more than 3,500 acres it has burned. it jumped the interstate, 115, freeway, 115, engulfed multiple cars. 20 vehicles were destroyed when it did that. the fire still going there. these are pictures from our affiliate, kabc. and also there is some more information. i've want you to take a look at these pictures. these were just sent to us from a student, high school student,
her name is taisco fonte. she tells us they were in the middle of this. they saw the fire from a distance. she said then quickly in a matter of minutes it just came right over to where they were. she said that police were on loud speakers saying to stay in their cars. she said there was 15 of them. it was a high school soccer player in the van. they started to panic when they saw this. these are the pictures from the interstate-up are looking at from earlier. and these fires were, these cars, vehicles e. were on the interstate. it was just a parking lot. and completely engulfed many of them. they had to abandon their vehicles right there on the interstate. we'll continue to update you on this breaking news and that soccer team is fine now. they had to run up a hill. they said there was a pregnant woman. had to help her out. they're safe right now. now there is breaking news tonight on the pentagon. boosting security in the weak of the chatanooga shootings. marine corps closing recruiting stations within 40 miles of the
attacks and telling workers there not to wear military uniforms. other branches of the military also increasing security at least temporarily. but will it be enough? will it be enough? joining me now a man who has experience aid shocking attack on a military base staff sergeant alonzo thanks for joining us this evening. alonzo, yesterday's incident must have brought back some terrible feelings for you. what was your reaction? >> it brought back a whole lot of terrible feelings. the first thing that came to my mind is oh, not again. i'm thinking about how the family members feel of my four marine brothers and, also, the navy personnel that's in the hospital right now. so it's very disturbing. >> what i reported just before coming to you that the pentagon is telling people not to wear their uniforms for security. what do you think about that? >> well, that's typical
protocol. the same thing happened when the bus got shot up in germany where they told the soldiers not to wear the uniforms. i think that's a good thing as far as a precautionary measure. but if they really want to go full flejed, how about arming our military personnel in the workplace? meaning not every military personnel, at least everyone that's nco and above. to have them to carry a side arm and then, also, to put measures in place to beef up security of the recruiting stations i.e., bullet proof glass and also bombproof doors, as well. >> so you think that military personnel at the recruiting station should be allowed to have firearms? you think that would have made a difference? or that would make a difference? >> yes, i would. if you think about it, as soon as you start receiving fire, out of instinct, we go for cover and
then we see where the threat is coming from and then we can return fire. that's just our battle instincts that's kicking into play. but this is not something that has occurred that we cannot stop. we can, but, again, we have to be allowed to fight with both of our hands and not with one behind our back. so we have the training, we have the restraint to use these weapons. it's obvious that the war is now on our home soil. so let us fight on our home soil so that everyone can be protected. >> okay. so i want to -- i want you to react to this, if you will. candidates have weighed in on gun-free zones. and here's what donald trump tweeted today. end gun-free zones. our soldiers must be able to protect themselves. this has to stop. and they just spoke about gun-free zones. so let's listen to it then. we'll talk about it. >> i'm a big second amendment person. you know, yesterday, with your
gun-free zone where you had the marines shot down because they didn't have guns. but this sick guy had guns and shot them down. and these are decorated people. these are people that could have handled guns very easily. they would have had a good chance if they had a gun. and you had the same problem in '09. you had the same thing. >> yes, so he's speaking about in '09. jeb bush telling reporters that laws should be reviewed to allow recruiting officers to carry guns. and you agree with both of those men, don't you? >> oh, absolutely. because i'm a firm believer. had i had a side arm on me in november 5, 2009, the outcome would have been a lot different. >> how do you view the threat of isis and other jihadis? >> the threat is very real. let's go back a couple years ago
when the british soldier was killed with those guys with machetes. the guy is standing above the soldier with bloody hands and his reply is america, your women and children are next. that's a couple of years ago. so the plane is already in motion. isis has already said what they're going to do on u.s. soil. isis is already actively recruiting our young future leaders that have no direction or no guidance. so it's not just that we need to repair this thing from a military stand point, from a law enforcement standpoint. but also from an education standpoint, as well. if you have a young person's mind that they don't have any direction or they're bored, then that's a breeding ground for extremists to come in and take over. so we really need to start getting proactive and stop being reactive. and they need to listen the powers that be. >> thank you. >> they need to -- >> yes. we're out of time. thank you so much. we appreciate it.
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they're being remembered in vigils across the country and mourned by their families and friends. and at one service in chattanooga, they played a clip by ronald reagan. words just as powerful as today. >> sometime back, i received in the name of our country, the bodies of four marines who had died while on active duty. i said then that there is a special sadness that accompanies the death of a serviceman. for we're never quite good enough to them. not really. we can't be. because what they gave us is beyond our powers to repay. and so when a serviceman dies, it's a tear in the fabric, a break in the whole. and all that we can do is remember.
they gave up everything for our country; for us. we owe them a debt we can never repay. all we can do is remember them and what they did and why they had to be brave for us. >> back in 1981, i had the american dream and a beautiful 6-year-old son. and one day i went to work, kissed my son good-bye and never saw him again. in two weeks, i became the parent of a murdered child. and i'll always be the parent of a murdered child. i still have the heart ache. i still have the rage.