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tv   Amanpour  CNN  December 3, 2015 11:00pm-11:31pm PST

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hello and thank you for joining us. it is 11:00 p.m. on the u.s. west coast. i am isha sesay in los angeles. >> hello, everybody. i'm john vause in san bernardino, california. we would like to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. you're watching our continuing coverage of the mass shooting at this california conference center. investigators are trying to figure out if this shooting was an act of terrorism, if it was a workplace dispute, or somehow if it was both. we're hearing a chilling account from one of the first police officers on the scene of wednesday's massacre. first there are indications that the gunman, sayeed rizwan farook
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was under investigation for terrorism. smashed stoves and a missing computer hard drive suggest he and his wife tashfeen malik tried to cover their tracks. they were both killed in a shoot-out with police. >> yeah, and the county coroner has released the names of the 14 people killed in the shooting. and john, as you well know, the majority being county officials. they work for the county, the majority of them as among the injured. and we're getting a firsthand account of what it was like inside that community center on wednesday. police say farook and malik fired between 65 and 75 rounds. most of those killed and wounded. health department employees. police officer mike madden was on his way to lunch when he got the call about the shooting. >> as we entered into the conference room, the situation was surreal. it was something that i don't think, again, we prepare for.
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and an active shooter, we talk about sensory overload. they just try to throw everything at you to prepare you for dealing with that, what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're smelling. and it was all of that and more. it was unspeakable. the carnage that we were seeing. the number of people who were injured. and unfortunately, already dead. and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need, and needing to be safe. >> when it comes to people who engage in these kinds of vicious, brutal acts will spare nothing in bringing them to justice and protecting the people along the way. so i don't know what this means going forward. but i think we have to be on our guard. we can't take anything for granted. and i just want to assure my fellow citizens here in
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california that we're going to go just as far as we have to make sure that public safety is protected. >> the evidence seems to be mounting that these two attackers had been planning something like this for quite some time and had terrorist ties as well. jim sciutto has the details. >> reporter: signs the deadly california rampage could be tied to terrorism. investigators searching for a motive have found evidence shooting suspect sayeed rizwan farook had been radicalized. he had contact with known terror subjects overseas. >> large armed response here. >> reporter: however, they have not determined definitively whether those extremist beliefs or other workplace grievances or possibly both triggered the mass shooting. >> there was obviously a mission here. we know that. we do not know why. we don't know if this was a -- this was the intended target or if there was something that triggered him to do this immediately. we just don't need. >> reporter: the shooters, sayeed rizwan farook, a
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28-year-old u.s. citizen and his wife tashfeen malik, a 27-year-old u.s. permanent resident were not previously known to the fbi. and were not on a list of potentially radicalized people. however, law enforcement officials say that farook was in contact by phone and social media with international terrorism subjects under fbi investigation. the subjects were not considered high priority. investigators are also examining farook's travel to pakistan and saudi arabia. where it is believed that farook met his wife malik during the annual muslim pilgrimage, the hajj. malik, who was born in pakistan, eventually came to the u.s. on a k-1, or fiancee visa before obtaining a greencard. farook's brother-in-law says he is stunned by wednesday's bloodshed. >> i have no idea why would he do that. why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i am in shock myself. >> reporter: police are now working at the couple's home to
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determine how they managed to amass an enormous arsenal. two assault rifles and two semiautomatic handguns. more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition and high capacity magazines. police also found what they described as a bomb lab in their home with a dozen improvised pipe bombs. in addition to three others rigged to a remote control car left unexploded at the scene. signs that a bigger plot could have been in the works. >> nobody just gets upset at a party, goes home and puts together that kind of an elaborate scheme or plan to come back and do that. so there was some planning that went into this. >> thanks to jim sciutto for that report. and investigators have found electronics they believe belonged to the suspect, including a computer without a hard drive in it, which they hope will give them some answers. cnn's justice correspondent evan perez has those details. >> reporter: investigators have recovered two smashed cell phones. this may be a sign investigators believe that the two shooters
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were trying to hide their tracks and it difficult for investigators to figure out who they were communicating with in the days leading up to wednesday's massacre. the two cell ones were recovered from a garbage can near one of the three crime scenes. now the work for fbi technicians is to try to recover information from the cell phones as well as from computers that were found at the home of the two shooters. investigators hope that this information could offer some indication of what the motive might have been behind wednesday's shooting. evan perez, cnn, washington. >> so much work still to be done. but john, we're hearing from more people who knew sayeed rizwan farook and his wife tashfeen malik. one of those speaking out is a man who shared a cubicle with farook at work. that colleague's story is quite chilling. [ siren ] >> just minutes before the
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killers opened fire on the holiday party, patrick baccari left to use the bathroom when the attack started. >> i thought somebody had booby-trapped the towel dispenser because i was being pummelled while i was pulling the towels out of the dispenser. i looked back this the mirror. i could see i was bleeding in my temple, my nose. >> reporter: he hid in the bathroom while syed farook and his wife fired off 76 rounds, killing 14 people. farook and baccari shared a cubicle for three years. they talked about car, farook's 6-month-old daughter, regular chat between two coworkers. >> why do you think he did this? >> well, i think his beliefs were contrary to our american dreams. you would think that somebody that is working to the capacity and educated to the level that you are has similar respect and values. >> reporter: law enforcement sources tell cnn that farook apparently was radicalized and
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in touch with people being investigated by the fbi. talking by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism. but a law enforcement source says those talks were infrequent. the last one had ban few months ago, not raising any alarms. no red flags either say u.s. and saudi government vehicles when farook went to saudi arabia. the fbi says the 28-year-old had also travelled to pakistan. the couple's landlord who rented the apartment they would later fill with weapons and bomb-making materials saw no sign this was coming. >> it's beyond my comprehension. because they seemed like such a gentle, mild person. just can't tell a book by its cover. >> reporter: farook's brother-in-law didn't know. >> i have no idea why would he do that. why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i am in shock myself. >> reporter: a sentiment echoed by patrick baccari. >> who wants to call their
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16-year-old kid to tell them that you just survived the attack? many people that didn't that we love. >> reporter: baccari says the multiple bullet fragments will remain in his body. now turning to anger and fear. >> i believe every citizen here should be armed to defend themselves in the case of this happening. but that's not everybody else's belief. i couldn't have defended anybody from the position i was in, even if i was armed. but at least if they tried to come in and get us in that rest room, i'd have some way of maybe protecting the rest of us. >> reporter: we could not find anything as far as a criminal background on farook. but there are some court documents from a 2008 divorce between he's parents that suggest that he had a turbulent childhood. his mother filed a temporary restraining order.
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she described her husband, farook's father as being violent, mentally ill at times, often not on his meds, and frequently saying that he would commit suicide. she also described him as being violent, throwing once a tv on her. john? >> kyung, thank you for that. let's go down to paul vercammen. he joins us now live. paul, what we are hearing is from one of the livers who was the first on the scene. and his account of what he saw when he got there. >> yes, john. it is fascinating. this is lieutenant mike madden. 24-year veteran from san bernardino. this is his hometown. he was simply off on his lunch break when he heard this call of mass casualties. of course, they were all fearful that there were multiple gunmen still active inside. and he described at first what struck him. and it was the smell. let's listen. >> when we entered, there was fresh gunpowder and the smell of gun powder in the air, leading
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me to believe that there was in fact -- there were in fact shooters still. >> and then scary moments for madden. he describes that sprinklers, fire sprinklers were going off, fire alarms were going off. he could hear the wailing, the crying out of the injured. people inside were so fearful, many of them in a hallway, that when madden first approached them, they were doubtful that he was indeed a law enforcement officer. maybe he was dressed portray himself as one of the attackers. but he says once he convinced the first of these terribly frightened people that he was indeed a police officer, they then followed him out in a flood to safety, john. just harrowing moments in there. just scary beyond belief for madden and others who first arrived. >> lieutenant madden also talked about how difficult it was to not attend to the wounded. because they had to secure the scene because there was an active shooter. he had to walk past all of these
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people who had been wounded. and we're learning that many of the people who were shot, many of the people who were wounded had a direct connection to farook the shooter. >> that's absolutely true. in fact, statistically, you can find that out this started as a training exercise for county health employees. and then it transited to the holiday party. of the 14 people killed, 12 worked for the county. of the 21 injured, 18 work for the county. no doubt farook worked alongside many of them. and as these two narratives come together, he was at once upset with some of his coworkers. and on the other side, all these indications that he was radicalized, that he was perpetrating, you know, a massacre for perhaps religiously zealous reasons. it may be that both were very much at play in the mind of farook. >> and now 14 people are dead. and 21 injured.
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and some of those remain in a critical condition right now. paul, thank you for being with us. we appreciate it. of course, isha, that question of radicalization is one which authorities are looking into right now. if farook was in fact radicalized, anyone close to him, say at least publicly they knew nothing about it. they managed to hide it from those who were closest to him, both farook and his wife. >> yeah. many questions to be asked to really flesh that out. and you know earlier i spoke with former fbi agent bobby chacon whether he thought the shooters were radicalized or the attack was a hybrid attack of workplace revenge and terror. >> clearly there was some dispute at the party. that's clear. clearly, obviously he went back to the party and did this act. so it doesn't take a stretch to think that somethng happened at the party that made him go back there, whether it was planned to go back there or whether this was just something that set him off to go back there. that's all yet to be determined. but clearly there was an
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antagonism. workplace violence? sure. by the very definition of the words, it's workplace violence. these are coworkers of his. he visited violence upon them. the terrorism aspect also is obviously coming into play. that's being run out. so i think there is something, some credibility to this hybrid. >> but it's clearly -- and i guess this is the thing, given what they found in the home of farook and malik, the amount of weaponry. it clearly points to something bigger, does it not? >> absolutely. >> do you think this was the original target? >> absolutely something bigger, and maybe something additional. now what's to be determined is whether or not there was another initial target planned. and this just was a target of opportunity because of the antagonism at the workplace. and maybe they were going to hit that first and go to the secondary target, which at this
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point was their initial target before they went to the workplace. or whether they were going to do a secondary attack. but clearly there was more planned because of the amount of weapons, ammunition, devices that they had. was much more than would be needed for this particular attack. >> and because of that, just what you mentioned, the weaponry, the ammunition device, does that suggest to you that other people could have been involved? because of the quantity? >> yes, it does to me. both by the purchasing of all the materials that would be needed to build these, the building of them themselves, and i think we had some initial reports that there were other gentlemen being seen coming and going from the residence in the past. witnesses in the neighborhood say i think that they saw other people coming and going. this doesn't sound like an activity that was hid nene the house. so if you were in that house, it sounds like you new their were ieds being built and there were ammunitions and guns around. i think by the very nature of the amount and the type of activity that was taking place
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in the house and the fact that gentlemen were seen coming and going from there, that others could have been involved in the planning and maybe the execution of this and obviously they're still out there. >> former fbi agent bobby chacon speaking to me just a short time ago. still ahead on "cnn live from los angeles" we remember the victims, including a woman who fled iran for the u.s., in fear for her life. we'll be right back. you get used to sweaty odors in your car
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has wife. law enforcement is also examining two smashed cell phones recovered from a garbage can near one of the crime scenes. they found a computer with a missing hard drive as well. authorities also say farook was apparently radicalized, but they're not ready to say if that was his own motive. there may have been some workplace grievances as well. he worked with the victims and was attending the holiday party. farook and his wife tashfeen malik caused a lot of pain, a lot of suffering on wednesday. that pain and suffering is continuing, and we'll continue for some time. the mayor of san bernardino said he saw that pain this the eyes of the relatives of the victims, and isha, there are so many unanswered questions here. but there are facts that we know. we do know that 14 people lost their lives for no good reason on wednesday. 21 others have been seriously hurt. a. a lot of people are still asking that question, why did this happen. >> and the youngest of the victims being 26 years old, the oldest 60, it spans the gamut of people just beginning their
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lives, really, and people who had so much to look forward to. so many people's lives shattered and needlessly. so a lot of pain. a lot of pain. and a lot of unanswered questions, job. among the 14 people killed, michael wetzel, a father of six. and in a statement his wife said he was the most amazing person that she has ever met. also dead 52-year-old nicholas thalasinos, a county employee. 40-year-old robert adams was a husband and a father of a toddler. they were planning his daughter's first trip to disneyland. and 45-year-old shannon johnson was from los angeles. 12 of the victims were county employees, including bennetta badal who moved to the u.s. to flee religious persecution in her native iran. her family and her friend shared her story with our own anderson cooper. >> she was an 18-year-old girl. fled -- christian woman. she fled because of the
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religious persecution against christians that was taking place. she came to the crews on to start a new life. eventually moved to california where she met her husband arlen. had three children that you see here. graduated from cal poly in chemistry. she was hired by the county health department as an inspector, worked there as a number of years. myself and the family, we just find it sadly ironic and horrible that a woman that came to the country under these circumstances would find herself gunned down by religious extremists. >> someone who fled islamic extremism. >> only to lose her life all these years later in america at the hands of religious extremism. >> arlen, do you want to say anything about bennetta? >> just a lovely wife, a beautiful mother. everything she touched bloomed. doing what she did for the
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county, there not one person that will say anything negative about her. >> she was making a presentation yesterday? >> correct. also, she is a plant checker. if anybody is opening a new restaurant, businesses, she went above and beyond, even on her own time to help these new clients to the county. >> how did you two meet? >> well, we had as syrians, which are christian like armenians, once a year we meet at the convention center where young people meet and adults meet. and for three days friday, saturday, sunday and mondays, actually, there is activity for the friends and people. and back in 1995 i met her through that as a friend. and became good friends, best friends. and two years later asked her for marriage. >> and what an incredible family you guys created together. >> thank you so much. >> 14 dead. so many lives lost. and for their families, their
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lives will never be the same. also important to note that 21 people were also wounded in the shooting. we will take a closer look at the investigation when we come back. and why police and the fbi say there are so many unanswered questions.
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you are watching cnn's live
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breaking coverage of a mass shooting at a conference center here in california. i'm isha sesay in los angeles. >> i'm john vause in san bernardino. just coming up to 11:30 here at night. and law enforcement officials say they have recovered two smashed cell phones from a garbage can near the crime scene. they also recovered a computer, but the hard drive is missing. sources say the gunmen syed rizwan farook was apparently radicalized. he had been in touch with a number of people under investigation by the fbi for international terrorism. farook and his wife tashfeen malik killed 14 people at a conference center on wednesday. they were killed a few hours later in a shoot-out with police. investigators say they found 12 pipe bombs and a trove of ammunition at their home. the couple met in 2013 when farook traveled to saudi arabia. one of two trips he made there. now the chaos began at 11:00 a.m. local time and continued for hours. cnn's poppy harlow has more now on the minute-by-minute response
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by police. [ gunshots ] >> confirmed we got a shooter in that car. >> reporter: police zero in on syed rizwan farook and his wife tashfeen malik, who just hours before had brutally shot and killed 14 people at an office event. acting on a tip, officers head to a house in the town of redlands, just ten miles from the scene of the mass shooting. as they approach the home, a black ford suv drives by, slowly at first, then speeding away. >> we are in pursuit of the suspect vehicle eastbound on san bernardino avenue from richardson. we've got shots fired out the back window. >> reporter: one shooter fires at police who are in hot pursuit. the chase headed back to san bernardino. all of it playing out on live television. >> we have units at san bernardino and richardson that are taking fire. >> reporter: the suv comes to a stop, and a full-scale gun battle breaks out. [ gunshots ]


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