bernie sanders. so it's a mix of people, but, of course, he's saying what we heard him say during this conference on the changes in the global economy in the last 25 years, stressing as was the topic of his paper, the urgency of a moral economy. >> all right. ben wedeman reporting live from rome. thanks so much. thank you for joining me today. i'm carol costello. at this hour with berman and bolduan starts now. hello, everyone. i'm john berman. kate is off today. what you've just been watching is something really, really interesting. bernie sanders at the vatican. hopefully we'll have pictures of what just happened. bernie sanders just spoke to a group at the vatican. this is sort of a think tank there. he was invited or asked to go

depending on who you ask to talk about income inequal can i, the moral economy, as bernie sanders likes to city. this event coming one day after the big debate in brooklyn. just a few days before the big new york p new york primary. there were a lot of questions on whether it was smart for bernie sanders to leave the state and the country with so little time before big votes were cast here. but obviously senator sand heer thought it was an important moment. just a few minutes ago we spoke to reporters and said the reason he went is the issues are crucial to him. he also spoke about his admiration for pope francis. he said pope francis speaks about many of the things he thinks are crucial, not just income inequality but also the fight against climate change. we recorded the entire speech he gave. that sound will come to us in just a few minutes as well. joining me now to discuss what

just happened in the vatican and the ramifications for new york, i'm joined by jeff zeleny, also with us patty salice doyle, angela rye, jonathan dasini and bob beckel. thank you all for being with us. i want to start with jeff zeleny here with us in new york who is covering the sanders campaign and the clinton campaign. but that campaign at least when it comes to bernie sanders, a lot of miles away at the vatican. jeff, what went into this decision. >> the decision was very personal for the senator. some of the advisors did not mask the fact that they weren't sure how wise it was for him to leave new york four days before the critical primary. he insisted on it. he's connected to the message of

the pope. he's connected to the issues of social justice, and the economy. and he got an invitation to speak at this conference. his campaign has shown us a copy of that. it came a week before he announced it. there was a controversy over how it was announced. setting that aside, i think this is a moment to show he's more than just a vermont senator. he's more than someone who is creating an uproar in the democracy party. he has better issues. what a better place to highlight them than in the vatican city. it's a bit of a zoo as it always is, but he really wants to make this case here, and in the speech that we'll hear, he absolutely does that. and i also asked him, taking time off the road, is that smart. he said, look, hillary clinton is going to be in california raising money this weekend longer than he will be out of the country in the vatican. so probably a fair point. >> she's with the clooneys. you have the clooneys and the pope. this is major star power,

although he's not meeting with the pope. >> we think he's done. he spoke and answered a few questions. that's a long way to go to the event. you know bernie sanders. jeff zeleny said this was personal. why? >> i think jeff said it and it was on the mark. i think he feels powerfully about the pope. he quoted him during the campaign trail and has said you think i'm radical? listen to what the pope is saying. and from his speech which we just got, he says that the people of america, they suffer not some from the boom bust cycles on wall street but from a world economy that puts profit over pollution and arms trade over peace, and pope francis has given the biggest name to the globalization of indifference. i think it speaks to bernie is motivated by changing the country and the world. he knows the politics of this. he wants to win new york. what's motivating him is the

political change. >> he quotes pope francis frequently on the trail. he talks about the pope's writings on money and climate change. that's clear. but the campaign can calendar is real estate, and he seeded some of that to the clintons. was it a risk worth taking? >> yeah. i'll tell you why. one of his political problems is people wonder if he has any foreign policy. you go out of the country, and it makes you look a little more presidential. that's one. and so that serves a purpose. and secondly, let's remember that we're going through the catholic belt here. i don't think anybody from bernie's commitment, the things he is, the first populous this year was the pope. he caught onto this three years ago, and so they agree with

that, but it's perfect as sort of a backdrop for bernie. he couldn't be in a better pl e, and particularly so many catholics in new york and new jersey and pennsylvania. i don't want to be cynical. >> none of us ever want to be cynical. that's why we do it so much. patty, let me bring you into the conversation. i've spoke to speen yoenior adv for both campaign. they're both ambivalent. the sanders people saying we're not so sure it's a great idea as of yesterday they were like we don't think he's going to meet about the pope. they weren't excited about that, but the clinton people weren't willing to say it was a bad idea. your view? >> i agree with bob. were it not on the timing, five days before the new york primary, this is a good thing for bernie sanders to do. it puts him on the international stage. when you're running for president, that's a good place to be.

clearly he's been well received from the footage we saw, and bob is right. the catholic vote is very important. but it is five days before the primary, and when you're 17 points down, um, you probably want to be in new york right now. >> hillary clinton still in new york right now. i'm getting word she may speak shortly. that will be interesting to have her speaking to reporters in public in new york city while bernie sanders, himself, is at the vatican. you know, angela rye, where is the camp -- we have live pictures of hillary clinton at a senior center in harlem. as soon as she starts talking, we'll take the comments live. angela while we're waiting, tell me where you think we are right now hours after the cnn debate, just a few days before the new york primary. >> i think to tie it back to the vatican trip, i'm going to be cynical and say this has everything to do with a weak spot for bernie sanders. bernie sanders was criticized

for his religious believes and how he's engaging religious people. were him to go to the vatican at a time where it looks like he says he's deeply spiritual but didn't say much more, i think it was smart. and maybe his campaign folks will realize that one day. it's also interesting because the debate last night was fierce. i don't know that we expected anything different with them being brooklyn. one of them an adopted daughter and one a native son as he referred to hymn. because it was so tense, it was time to bring civility back to the discourse. what better place than at the vatican. >> you can't turn the page more than this right now, can you? we've been watching hillary clinton. she's in harlem. when she starts talking, we'll bring that to you live. >> i would say, i didn't know i was on camera. there's another important point here. if you're going to be a serious candidate for president who

happens to be a jew and there's been very few of them, if any, this is exactly the right place to be to deal with that issue. i can't understand all the whining about it. >> okay, bob. bob, let's listen to hillary clinton. she's just getting ready to talk in harlem. >> i am so happy to be here at the senior center with my friend, the speaker. thank you so much, melissa. [ speaking foreign language ] >> i've had a chance to meet some of you who live here. thank you for making me feel so welcome. >> and i now know where to come when i want a good game of dominos. [ translating ] [ laughter ]

>> look, i wanted to come here to really make a very strong plea that we do more when i am president to help the people who live in developments like this. [ translator translating ] >> today too many new yorkers are struggling to pay rising rents. they're being priced out of communities where they've lived were years, pushed further away from jobs and quality schools and good transportation, and latino and black families are being hit the hardest. [ translator translating ]

>> that's why i'm making investing in affordable housing a major priority of what i call my breaking every barrier agenda. [ translator translating ] >> so we're going to create more incentives from the federal government for affordable housing. we're going to boost funding for what are called section 8 vouchers. we're going to give people more choices as to where they live and do more to help particularly young people afford to buy a home. i want to provide $10,000 to match the money for a down payment so your children, your grandchild, all of our young people can get a home if they want that. [ translator translating ]

>> and at the same time, i'm going to work hard with leaders like the speaker to put more federal money back into public housing like the senior center. [ translator translating ] >> you know, over the past 15 years federal funding for the new york city housing authority has decreased by nearly 30%. you've lost nearly a third of

the funding that used to come from the federal government to new york. [ translator translating ] >> and i know that the new york housing authority is billions of dollars behind in making repairs and maintenance. i saw some of those problems in the apartment we visited. [ translator translating ] >> residents are forced to live with mold -- >> all right, hillary clinton at a senior center in harlem here in new york. we're going to keep our eye on that. we'll let you know if she takes questions from the press or makes any news there. jeff zeleny, fascinating timing here. this is the first we've heard

from hillary clinton today. you get the sense the clinton campaign wanted this. wanted hillary clinton in harlem within minutes of bernie sanders being at the vatican. >> first thing, i've spent the last year covering her campaign. it's one of the first times she's been on time to an event, speaking right after bernie sanders. this is classic hillary clinton in a good way. she is running for president this nomination as though she's running for nasenate in new yor. that was about as granular of a speech how she will do things as bernie sanders was sort of lofty, what we must do. that's kind of the difference here. but this is her own public appearance of the day, and as soon as she's finished, she's flying to danlos angeles for a fundraising trip. they wanted to create a dueling image that she is a doer. we'll do things, specific policies for housing.

bernie sanders is in the vatican talking about it. but she's been on the foreign stage policy stage much more than him, so i think it's a nice contrast. after last night's shout fest. >> neither candidate has even mentioned the debate out loud. just a few hours after what was by far the most dramatic democratic debate. stand by. a lot more to talk about including those words at that debate. the gloves, they were off amid a number of other cliches as well. bernie sanders and hillary clinton exchanged some of the fiercest blows yet. we'll discuss who came out on top if anybody. donald trump blasts a rigged system that is stacked against him? we'll talk about his new attack on his party, a wall street journal op ed. pretty dramatic words. neutrogena® cosmetics. with vitamins and antioxidants. now with foundations in shades

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life feels a little lighter, potency probiotic, livelier, a little more you. ultimate flora probiotics. >> we are still basking in the glow of last night's debate. we're back with our panel to discuss. let me bring in jeff zeleny first. this debate, this was different. >> it was different. i think largely because the moment in time.

this was debate number nine. but it is coming right before this critical new york primary. bernie sanders has some explaining to do to the rest of the democratic party. he's been raising questions about her qualifications. she's been raising questions about is he ready or not. at the end of the day, the race is frozen in place in the state it was, but so much more testy. if you look at the tone from six months or so ago when bernie sanders says enough with the e-mails, i'm not sure he would have answered that the same last night. this has gotten raw and intense. i was backstage watching this. these two former colleagues are locked in this incredibly intense fight, and it is raw and personal. certainly among their supporters. the question mark hanging over this, will the party unify? how difficult will it be for the party to unify? >> interesting to see. it looked like there were two people on stage a little bit sick of each other. >> how could they not be after all these words and all these months and all of us. >> i want to play a little bit

of sound. if you summarized it, it was sort of dreechliaming versus do. listen to this. >> we have got to understand that in america we should be thinking big, not small. >> i think you've got to go at this with a sense of how to accomplish the goal we are setting. >> incrementism and the little steps are not enough. >> i don't take a backseat to your legislation that you've introduced, that you haven't been able to get passed. i want to do what we can do to actually make progress in dealing with the crisis. >> i wanted to play that sound. that really does sum up the entire theme of the night, is sides that both candidates were taking. bob, i want to go to you first. given that that's the battle that both campaigns were choosing, who do you think came out on top? >> i really don't -- i think it's sort of a wash. here's what happens at these stages of the campaigns when they're close.

the people get tired, the campaign gets tired and so do the candidates. all the momentum that sanders has had will disappear if he loses new york by any margin at all. he's going into a group of states that aren't good for him. this is much more important for bernie sanders than hillary clinton. i can get hillary clinton to the nomination 15 different ways. i can't get bernie sanders there until he gets a second ballot. >> we have a new poll which gives a new sense of where the race is in new york. right now hillary clinton at 37%. bernie sanders at 40 %. it seems to be moving in her favor. let me play a little bit more sound about what i was talking about where bernie sanders hitting hillary clinton, discussing the themes that he generally talks about, and then hillary clinton demanding or asking for more specifics. play that. >> when millions of people lost their jobs and their homes and

their life savings, the obvious response to that is that you got a bunch of fraudulent operators and that they have got to be broken up. that was my view way back. and i introduced legislation to do that. now, secretary clinton was busy giving speeches to goldman sacs for $225,000 a speech. >> he can't come up with any example because there is no example. and it is important -- it's always important. it may be inconvenient, but it's always important to get the facts straight. i stood up against the behaviors of the banks when i was a senator. i called them out on their mortgage behavior. >> oh, my goodness. they must have been really crushed by this. and was that before or after you

received huge sums of money by giving speaking engagements for them? >> again, you see both sides drawing the lines. we don't have tons more time, so i want to go to angela and then jonathan and then patty. given that's how they framed it, quickly, is there any movement today? >> i think there is no real movement. bernie sanders needed to have a knockout night, and i don't think that's what he had. it was strong but not strong enough. in order for him to coast to victory, there has to be a miracle. >> i think he's going to win new york because of the ground game. there's tremendous energy out there. transport workers union endorsed him. i've never seen thousands of people knocking on doors. that makes a difference. i think there's a debate about the future of the democratic party. that's where the conflict is coming. political revolution versus the status quo establishment politics, establishment politics that's a wash in coronet monpor

money. that's the question. >> if you went into that debate a bernie supporter, you came out the same. hillary supporters came out the same. bernie needed a game changer to make up the deficit in the new york state and he didn't get it. >> and neither candidate will be in new york within the hour which is fascinating. thank you to you all for being here. interesting morning right here. reminder, the new york primary a little over three days away. you can watch cnn for complete coverage all day and all night next tuesday. coming up, they fought for a chance to work for donald trump. now they're fighting to keep him out of the white house. why six former apprentice contestants are coming together to say the republican front runner should not be president. you never thought it would happen. the contestants coming together for common cause.

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how's that been working out for you? that's the question that donald trump is posing to voters this morning. it is continued attack on what he calls a rigged republican primary system. in an op ed he writes i am not interested in defending a system that for decades has served the interest of political parties at the expense of the people. what we're now seeing is not a proper use of the rules but a flagrant abuse to the rules. phil mattingingly joins us now. this was an interesting read. in some ways, explains what

donald trump has been saying over the last few days. >> one of the biggest questions when you talk to gop officials over the last few days is where is donald trump going to take this? wasn't necessarily going all in in the me versus the establishment rules issue. he just went all in. i think the calculation by his campaign is this. they have a very good map coming up ahead for them. they can roll up a lot of delegates in the next three or four weeks. they are absolutely essential to donald trump getting to a point where he doesn't have to go to an open convention. rally those supporters. get them excited. and potentially put yourself on that pathway to 1237. now the republican national committee not super thrilled by this and reince priebus pushing back this morning on good morning america. take a listen. >> the system has been around for a long time. it was good enough for abraham lincoln. i think it's good enough for whoever our nominee is going to

be. >> and sean spicer, senior advisor, putting out a lengthy memo this morning explaining the rules were always in place. you've just had to take the time to actually read them. one of the most interesting elements, john, and you know this well, if donald trump does get to 1237 and he's the general election nominee, he's going to need to work hand and glove with the rnc. they have the digital and data infrastructure and the donor infri infrastructure yerks and a lot of the frustration at the rnc right now is his lack of willingness to grasp that. and this is only escalating. >> the other thing is that the rnc may need donald trump and his supporters no matter what happens as well. so both sides need to be careful. stick around. there's a lot more to talk about. i also want to bring in doug high and john philips. doug, i know you disagree with donald trump's argument here. i know you think he's wrong. i want you to suspend the fact that you disagree and talk about

the why that he's saying it. today in this op ed he ties the delegate system, the primary system to the greater system. donald trump essentially says he wants to stick it to the man in the delegate selection process because he wants to stick it to the man overall. he says the only an ek dasoluti bold infusion of popular will. aside from the fact that you disagree with the premise of his delegate argument, is this a smart strategy to tie the two things together? >> it may surprise you, i think it's a smart strategy. as wrong as i think it is, it's a smart strategy and consistent with what we've seen from trump. the us versus them mentality but also talking about anything other than tacksxes, jobs. he never wants to talk about issues. he creates a fake fight. this is another example because he didn't read the rule books of the 50 state system and hasn't hired the staff or the

organization to do what's necessary as a normal candidate. >> you can make the case it makes something that's small into much bigger, a larger argument about the system and popular will. john, i want to ask you about something else that's out there in writing. it's an endorsement from the new york post. i suppose you should put endorsement in air quotes, because it says something interesting, the endorsement. it says should he win the nomination, we expect trump to pivot not just on the issues but in his manner. the post pivot trump needs to be more presidential, bet informed on policy, more self-disciplined and less thin skinned. that's like saying we endorse him, but we want him to be very different. >> they read the polls and know who is going to win in new york, and the winner will be donald trump. it really was an easy call for the new york post and for some of the other new york papers that have endorsed donald trump.

ted cruz essentially disqualified himself as a candidate in the state of new york when he ran earlier in the race and never expected new york to matter, assumed he would sweep all the southern states, get the delegates he needed in the deep south, and new york would be an afterthought, and california. he made that remark at the debate like he's in a 1980s commercial where he was attacking new york values. well, you can go ahead and do that, but if new york matters, there are koconsequences, these are the consequences, and the newspapers didn't have a choice. >> the poll was a national poll from fox news which is pretty interesting in itself when you put that back up. it shows donald trump in front and ted cruz in second, john kasich in third. but if we can see it, there you go. it shows that ted cruz has slipped in the fox news poll since march despite all the victories that he's claiming in the last several contests, his national numbers have gone down. john kasich's have gone up,

phil. that's pretty interesting. >> the little engine that that could is john kasich always likes to prefer to his campaign may be moving here. i think one of the -- the kasich campaign is thrilled by i've go about it. i think one of the interesting element here, and the cruz points are pointing this out. look at the delegates. john kasich is 600 delegates behind cruz. kasich is not in a position to win states going forward or surpass rubio by the time they get to cleveland. but the kasich campaign has worked over the last 10 days throughout new york and pennsylvania and maryland, to set themselves up for the run he's been pushing toward. this is his moment if he's going to have one. the polling isn't showing on the state level he's going to have the moment, but he had a big speech in new york that his team was happy about. it gave him the opportunity. the polling nationally is starting to show that maybe he's

creeping up a little bit. could he get to that moment? that's the big question. >> and doug, john was saying ted cruz may have some bad days ahead of him. 44 may have had a night last night that didn't go as well as he wanted. all three candidates spoke to republicans in new york city. i don't know if you were in that room, phil, but a lot of people there said as cruz was speaking, the crowd was not paying attention, turning their backs, finishing their deserts and getting up. that he had a rough time there. you know, doug, what if this is a rough stretch for ted cruz? what if he finishes third in new york and as you go to connecticut and maryland and delaware things look similar? >> well, i think it means this process is going to continue to go on all the way to the convention which, unless donald trump gets to 1237. i think the new york post highlighted for a lot of republicans like myself what the challenge would be, the problem with donald trump as our nominee. the new york post basically said i love you, but change.

i'll tell you, i've been on the receiving end of that a couple times. it never works, and it's not going to work in november for republicans up or down the ballot. >> john, last word from you? how many delegates in new york out of 95 possible? >> i think it's probable that he wins a clean sweep. he's north of 60% in one spol, north of 50% in all polls. i think he has a good night. >> gentleman, thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. a lot more to discuss today. six former apprentice contestants have a message for donald trump. they've all heard it. you're fired. well, sort of. they're speaking out against the republican front runner trying to prevent him from getting fto the oval office. plus he's one of the first members of congress to endorse donald trump. there were meetings on capitol hill yesterday. what happened at those meetings and are more members of congress about to hop on board the trump train? that's ahead. don't let dust and allergies get between you

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fresh fire this morning, the escalating battle between drurch and the rnc. trump blasting the party for what he calls a rigged delegate system. the party hitting back saying the rules are grass roots driven, effective and easy to understand for those willing to learn them. joining me is tom marino. congressman, thank you for being us. i want to talk about the idea of a rigged system in a moment. first, there were meetings on capitol hill yesterday. the trump campaign set representatives to speak to members of congress to brief them on the status of the campaign. what happened behind closed doors? >> it was a good meeting.

the representative from the trump campaign told us where they think we stand on delegates. considering pennsylvania and new york and new jersey seems to be looking good, and out in california. we talked about what we're doing at the grass roots level, and how we started contacting delegates, how we started opening offices. it was a good meeting. >> it's a hand full right now, of members of congress. you're one of them supporting donald trump. >> yes. >> any new members coming, do you think? will there be coming endorsements? >> i think there will be in the coming days, a week or so. we just left the floor voting. i had a couple of my colleagues, the republicans, come up to me and ask me some questions knowing that i'm the chair in pennsylvania for the trump campaign. and by their comments and questions, i think we're going to see more in the next several weeks and after that even more. >> you've been a member of

congress for a few years. you were in pennsylvania government or an elected prosecutor before that. maybe part of the system. is the system rigged? >> the system is very difficult. it's archaic. it's the responsibility of each state to set their system up. but don't forget. these systems may be tweaked, but they've been around for decades when there were party bosses and party bosses controlled things. and party bosses controlled people by patronage, and now with the media that we have and people like you getting information out to the public, people are aware that i'm a voter and constituent, i vote, not a hand full of people at some level whether it's at the campaign level or whether it's the national or state level. i have a say in this, and not one of two people to pick their delegates as they want to to serve their own purpose.

>> even if the game stinks, don't you have to play it well? >> sure do. that's why i've been asked to advise and asked to start up what we did in pennsylvania. and we are doing that. we're getting more and more people involved, more volunteers, and you have to play the system. you have to play the game. it doesn't mean that it's a great system. it just means we have a mission we have to accomplish, and we have adapted to that. >> you think the trump campaign needs to play that game better? >> i think we are playing it better, and i think it's going to get even better as we go along. we have people in the field. this is the point where now we're talking to delegates. we're making phone calls and doing eye to eye contact. we're listening to what they have to say. that is key. before it's the party told you what to do, but people are so moved in this campaign. donald trump has brought together millions of people from all walks of life from both

parties and people who have never voted. they want to vote in this. that's how it should be. the american people decide this, not political insiders. >> you talk about a strange system. pennsylvania, you have one of the strangest. you have some delegates that are awarded at large by the state but also direct election of delegates who are largely unbound. >> right. yeah. we have -- >> the trump campaign up to this? this requires really granule work and identification, and if you want to get your people on board, you've got to identify delegates, people who support donald trump, in each one of the con depressigressional district. >> you come to the 10th and 11th congressional districts. i'm a chair. and see what we're doing across the state in opening these offices. and it is working. we've been working on this since i came out and said i endorsed donald trump, and i did it before supertuesday, and i'm the only candidate that came out and

endorsed him without endorsing anyone else. the people we have working for us and the constituents that are involved in this, we have it down. >> quickly, out of 71 delegates available in pennsylvania, how many will go for trump? >> i think mid 50s, maybe higher. >> all right. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. interesting projection. i appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> thanks. we're going to hear from reince priebus and the dnc chairman this afternoon. that is on wolf at 1:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. all right. the apprentices versus donald trump. why six former show contestants don't want donald trump to go from the boardroom to the oval office. that's next. [beekeeper] from bees to business expenses,

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from apprentices to adversaries, six show the apprentice they are slamming his campaign. one called for voters to "choose kennedy over kardashianism."

it was hard for everyone to say, frankly. trump is firing back. brian stelter, host of reliable sources is here. this is happening. >> it is happening ahead of the primary. these contestants media savvy holding a press conference. we can show you what they said a few minutes ago. >> we stand united as former candidates on "the apprentice," not to denounce donald trump the man but donald trump the presidential candidate's message. >> donald trump is validating hate and big gotry in a way i believe has potential to tear this country apart. >> trump corrupted the republican party to his own per rel and taken key air time from candidates like john kasich and forcing other candidates to join him in the race to the bottom. >> that's the message from the former contestants about the candidate. i have to show you trump's statement in full. it is a doozy.

let's put it on the screen. it begins with how quickly they forget. nobody would know who they were if it weren't for me. i couldn't have been nicer or more respectful. they want back in the limelight like they were when they were with trump. they should be careful or i will play hour of footage of them individually praising me. asking how successful when they left. so sad. i gave randall pinkett an opportunity of the lifetime by accepting him as aprentice and he worked for me and did a terrible job. it is a strr trump response. >> unbelievable. he was more upset by that than -- >> it is almost as if he is back on "the apprentice." donald trump learned a lot by being on tv but maybe this is the down side by contestants that love him so much anymore. the legacy of charles manson

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2016. "legal view" with pamela brown starts right now. hello, everyone. happy friday. i'm pamela brown in for ashleigh banfield. and welcome to "legal view." the candidates for president, one is not in the country anymore and one is heading for a state that doesn't vote for two months. bernie sanders in vatican city and he is not meeting the pope. he is busy with a trip of his own but is attending an economic conference there and told reporters why he made the trip today instead of working for much-needed votes in new york. >> i believe the pope has played a historical, a