tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 23, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
thanks very much for joining us for the second hour of "360." tonight, there are growing calls for police dash cam and body cam video to be released in the fatal shooting of keith scott in north carolina. scott's family does want that video to be made public and so the do many of the protesters. today hillary clinton called for the video to be released. she's scheduled to go to charlotte on sunday. the mayor of charlotte, jennifer roberts, also says she believes the video should be released. the question is about the timing. i'll speak with mayor roberts in just a moment. first, i want to show you video that has been released, not by the police, but by keith scott's family. it's cell phone video that scott's wife took tuesday afternoon when her life changed right in front of her eyes. tom foreman tonight has details. tom? >> hey, anderson, the video starts with her basic call to the police, don't shoot him, as he is unseen in the white vehicle farthest away from the
camera. watch. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ bleep ] drop the [ bleep ] gun! >> don't shoot him! >> it is difficult to hear the police, but maybe you can in the background there. around 15 seconds, you can hear them shouting that he has a gun and saying, "drop the gun." >> don't shoot him! he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! >> now, she insists they're wrong and says that he does not have a gun and he does have a brain injury. >> drop the gun. >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. >> drop the gun! [ bleep ] >> at this point, about a half minute after the video begins, she changes tactics. like the police, she begins shouting at her husband, keith, warning him to get out of the
vehicle and not to do something. what, we don't know. don't let them break the window, don't resist, we just don't know. >> keith, don't let them break the windows. come on out the car. >> drop the gun! >> keith. don't do it. >> drop the gun. >> keith, get out the car. keith! keith, don't you do it! don't you do it! keith! >> you can hear the increased urgency there and for the first time, 18 seconds after she starts saying that, you see him come into view right here, momentums after that comes the gunfire. >> keith! keith! don't you do it! [ gunfire ] did you shoot him? did you shoot him?! did you shoot him?! he better not be [ bleep ] dead! he better not be [ bleep ] dead! i know that [ bleep ] much! i know that much. he better not be dead! i'm not gonna come near you. i'm going to record you. >> then she moves much closer.
in all, in that single minute she says, "don't shoot him" five times, "he has no gun or weapon" three times, "he didn't do anything one time," and "keith" or something to him nine times. plus, the police yell things too. we hear this because she is holding the phone. whether the police could hear her at maybe 30 to 40 feet while they're shouting at this man, we don't know. and based on this video, we cannot tell what, if anything, he has in his hands and even objects like the one thing pointed out by one thing they're seeing on the ground, there's no real indication of what that might be. anderson? >> tom, thanks very much. joining me now is charl mayor, jennifer roberts. mayor, thanks very much for being with us. first off, i want to get your reaction to the video released by mr. scott's family. does it give you any better idea of what happened leading up to
him being shot? i know you have seen the police videos, as well. >> it's a very difficult video. it's a very painful video. and i think as with the police video i have seen, it is inconclusive. it doesn't paint the whole picture. and that's why we have asked the state bureau of investigation that is currently handling the case to finish their investigation as soon as possible with all the facts, with the complete picture, so they can fill in those gaps and have some sense of integrity of a whole story of what happened in that incident. >> and as you know, a lot of the protesters are certainly calling for all the videos to be released, as soon as possible, to be released right now, frankly, many of the protesters want, and the family wants that as well. i know the counterargument, which is, you want the investigation, the witnesses, to be interviewed, and perhaps re-interviewed, you know, their testimony being affected by what the video shows. when do you think the videos
could be released soonest? or should be released? >> well, it's really up to our state. the state bureau of investigation has control over that now. i have urged them to do so with all possible speed, to devote as many resources as they need to conclude that investigation, to get a complete picture of what happened and to release the information as soon as possible. >> the -- the -- in turns of tonight and what you're seeing on the street, are you concerned at all the video that family released could in any way affect the protests tonight? they were largely peaceful last night. it seems like tonight, so far, they are much calmer. >> well, so far, it does seem calmer. last night was calmer. i know that there is just a lot of uncertainty and we just want to urge peaceful protests. it's a great for demonstrator to be heard in a peaceful manner. we hope it stays that way tonight. we appreciate all the resources
we have here, appreciate our men and women in uniform, who are helping. and also our community leaders, who are actually out on the streets tonight, some faith leaders, folks from 100 black men, folks from -- just regular volunteers from different faith traditions helping to spread that word of peace. i think until we have some sense of closure on the investigation, it's going to be hard for people to feel like we can move forward. >> the city issued a midnight curfew last night, which didn't seem to be enforced when it came to protesters. the police chief said today, he can use discretion when deciding when and where to enforce it. will that continue tonight? >> yes, the curfew is still in place, from midnight until 6:00 a.m. and again, the police have discretion. if there is a peaceful demonstration that doesn't seem to be causing any harm or blocking anything, they have discretion to allow that to continue. we're asking folks who have, you
know, trips they don't need to make and that sort of thing, to not be out after midnight, and we're trying to help our city remain calm and peaceful. >> secretary clinton, who's obviously a fellow democrat, said to come to charlotte on sunday. donald trump might be making a trip down later in the week after the debate. a few hours ago, you said you would prefer if the candidates delayed those visits. can you explain why? is it a question of a distraction of resources? what is it? >> well, we appreciate the fact that both candidates are following what's going on, they care about what's happening in charlotte, and i certainly look forward to further conversations about how we can work toward reducing disparities in our cub. i appreciate the candidates' interest. we do have, you know, resources that are deployed. sunday, we have a sporting event here. and we just want to be
thoughtful and careful and we can handle, you know, whatever they decide to do, but i wanted to, you know, be open about that, that we know that it is -- it's still a developing situation. >> have you talked to either campaign, to tell them you want the visits delayed? or you're just sort of saying it publicly now? >> we have not been contacted directly, but i am just, again, helping to create that complete picture of how we feel. and again, we appreciate so much the interest and concern. i have talked to secretary clinton about what's going on. she did call me before this visit was in question. she called me to offer support and say that she's thinking of charlotte. and we appreciate that. >> mayor roberts, we're thinking of charlotte, certainly, and we wish you the best. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> there are peaceful protests tonight in atlanta, as well, as well as in charlotte.
we'll check in -- in fact, let's check in with brian todd who's on the streets in charlotte. >> the protesters have just movmove ed on to interstate 277, which is where they were last night if that's where they were last night when police dispersed them and used tear gas. this is one of the things the police and mayor did not want to have happen, for them to start blocking streets and intersections like this. streets and intersections downtown, they tolerated just fine, but coming on to the interstates is where they've had a bit of a problem and police have interceded. a big theme tonight, they have been calling for those videotapes to be released. the police dash cam and body cam videos of keith lamont scott being killed. if you can hear this back here, there's a police cruiser honking at them. i think they're trying to move -- yeah, they're trying to move the demonstrators off the
highway. they're cheering. so, we're going to see how this crowd proceeds from here and where the police may intercede. >> okay, brian, appreciate that. we'll also check in with our boris sanchez, who is also in charlotte. he joins me now. boris, explain where you are and what you're seeing. >> hey, how you doing, sir? boris, if you can hear me, how are things going where you are? >> hey, anderson. we're actually walking on highway 277 right now. there are several hundred protesters here, walking on the highway. i'm alongside a member of the charlotte-mecklenburg police department. sir, did you expect them to get on the highway today? >> well, once they started to move this way, we certainly suspected it. it's unfortunate that we couldn't just continue the peaceful march on the streets. >> well, so far this march appears to be peaceful, doesn't it? nobody's throwing anything, right? >> it is, but we really wanted
to stay off the interstate. it's dangerous on the interstate and requires a lot of resources to sort of shut that down. but looks like we're in good shape now, making good choices and heading back to the streets. >> reporter: are you concerned at all people coming from out of town, coming here to incite violence considering what we've seen over the past few nights. >> i'll talk to you in just a few minutes. >> i was just asking you if you were concerned that other people were going to be coming from out of town to incite violence. >> we expect people from come from out of town, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be violent. >> how do you feel about the response from the past few days. has it been adequate? >> i think it's been great. i think we've been out, we've been peaceful, they've been peaceful. there are a lot of resources inside the group that are doing the lion's share of the work that's helping to keep this peaceful. >> i appreciate your time. anderson, as you heard, charlotte police had to mobilize very quickly to take care of these folks that got on the highway. i should also mention, i just talked about people coming from
out of town, i heard someone in the crowd mention that there were a contingent of people here from ferguson, missouri. about 20 people here, very spirited, marching on the highway, yelling slogans and again, walking further and further away from downtown. i'm not sure if this is a planned strategy to keep the protest continuous, but we saw this last night, as well. and i think that's part of the reason that there wasn't a conflict with police, there was ant big line of police in riot gear, for them to confront drktly. so it appears that things continue to be peaceful right now. we'll keep monitoring this, anderson, and send it back to you. >> back with me, criminologist and former lapd officer, david klinger, cedric alexander, van jones, and former federal prosecutor, laura coates. david, the mayor has asked for this investigation to be completed as soon as possible. says she doesn't want the integrity of the investigation compromised. that goes to what you talked about earlier. at what point do you think an investigation an crosses the threshold? reaches the point at which the release of a video like this or
videos can be done? >> once all of the relevant witnesses who have been identified have been interviewed and as i indicated, perhaps re-interviewed, and that may take a few days, maybe a week or two, whatever the case may be, but unless they are saying, the mayor is saying there are witnesses they have yet to interview, it doesn't make sense to hang on to the videos any longer. my concern as i keep emphasizing is that the integrity of those interviews be protected. once that's squared away, it means, go ahead and release those videos. >> cedric, given the release of this new video by the family that's also certainly inconclusive, certainly raises questions, not sure how many questions it answers, would you be surprised if we saw the police video sooner rather than later? >> i would hope that we would, because that's what the community is asking for. but i think it's important, very important, that the integrity of this investigation is protected. so that it is fair and balanced for everyone involved.
but they need to, as best they can, to expedite and get those videos out to the public, so they can share and they can get that put aside, because that is critically important to the emotions and feelings in this whole peace of transparency, just continuing to bubble up. because people don't feel that they can trust the police. that's historic. and in this particular case, which is a very visible one, and one in which we need to get information out to the community as quickly as we can, as to here is this footage, so that people can make their own assessment. it's not going to be judged in the street. it's going to be judged in a court of law. but it's important that people see, as best they can, what occurred. and they're going to see a variety of different things. >> van, you were focusing, obviously, on this most recent incident with mr. scott. but for many of these protesters, and it's a point watkins raised in the last hour, and i think it's an important one, this isn't about this
latest incident. this is not something that's happened in a vacuum. this is about, this is about history and i'm not talking about long-ago history, i'm talking about recent history and relations between police and communities of color. >> yeah, absolutely. and one of the dangers for a protest movement is to focus on demanding things. you're going to get, eventually, anyway. they're demanding to see these videos. they're going to see these videos tomorrow, in a week, in a month. in a moment like this, you've got to expand what you're asking for. this is probably going to turn out to be, in part, a case of a mental health issue, being escalated. to a point where someone loses their life. there are a whole series of things they could be asking for in terms of retraining, in terms of -- there are ways to handle people who are just noncompliant, nonresponsive, not
because they're dangerous, not because they have a gun, they're going to shoot you, but because sometimes people cannot mentally process a series of verbal commands. people always say, well, if you just do what the police say, you'll be okay. everyone doesn't have that capacity. and police need to be trained to deal with people, to recognize when people are not mentally able to respond to escalating verbal commands. that should be a part of the demands here. and so, part of what's going on right now is, people are so upset and rightfully so, and you have this one issue, which is present, show me the video. when you see the video, then what's going to happen? we've got to get to a better understanding of the whole series of reforms that can lessen the violence, not just focus on something you're going to get anyway. >> you know, laura, one thing you also hear from the police, her shouting guns to put down the gun, multiple commands. i'm not sure the actual count in the video that that family has released. we also hear scott's wife to shout at her husband, well, scho shout, "keith, don't do it."
it's not clear whether she's saying, "keith, don't do it." there are other times she says, "keith," then says, "don't do it" to police. when she first heard it, i thought she meant, "keith, don't do it," like she was telling him not to do it, but it could very well be she was saying, "keith," then telling the police "don't do it." what she says is pertinent to this case. >> absolutely. this case is much bigger than one incident. we're talking about the national domino case of this case of distrust. but for the prosecutor, it's about the specific facts in this case. not making it about an officer or the victim himself. so what they have to focus on, was there a moment in time when this man provoked the officers to use lethal force? we don't know that. and that is why videos that may
be inconclusive to that particular fact, putting them out in the community is not going to undermine an investigation to determine if there was provocation or a justifiable use of force. what we're talking about now, anderson, is form over substance. we already know the substance of the police dash cam video according to the officers now let us see it in its form. >> stick around, everyone. there's a lot more to talk about ahead, including the police shooting that rocked charlotte three years ago. i'll talk to the family of the jonathan pharrell, a former college football player who was killed while he was trying to get help after a car crash. the outrage over his killing has been in many ways renewed this week. plus the latest on the other police shooting that sparked widespread outrage this week. the tulsa officer who opened fire on terence crutcher has been charged with first-degree manslaughter. the victim's family sharing new details about his health. ...anda replacement... ...in just a few clicks. with safelite you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! thank you. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace.
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former college football player was unarmed, presumably shaken when he knocked on a stranger's door seeking help. he had just been in a car crash, a pretty serious one, but instead of helping with the owner of the house called 911 and reported someone was trying to break in. the dash cam showed what happened next. one of the officers shot pharrell nine times in the chest as he ran toward him. the city settled a wrongful death suit with the family. earlier, i spoke to georgia and willy pharrell, jonathan's mom and brother. georgia, first of all, i'm so sorry for the loss of your son. i know last week marked three years since he was killed. a lot of people who have been protesting have said that anger that they have is not only because of mr. scott's death, but also because of your son's death in 2013. i'm wondering when you hear that and see everything that's happening right now in charlotte, what goes through your mind? >> i could understand everyone being angry, because we are not
getting any justice. we need justice. people are looking for justice. we're losing faith in our justice system. >> willy, what do you think? does this angry we see from the community, does a lot of it stem from the fact that justice was not done in your brother's case? >> not just my brother's case, not just the guy who was murdered at state or the guy who was murdered in charlotte, i think yesterday or a few days ago, it's so many different cases that are going on around the country that a lot of people are really upskpet a let and a people are fed up. and i think we have to come up with more solutions and really put things to action whenever it comes to this situation. we must understand how to handle this situation without tearing down cities, without doing harmful things to one another. because at the end of the day, all of us are humans. >> georgia, i'm wondering, mr. scott's wife released her video today.
police have still not released the video they have, the body cam, the dash cam video of the incident. do you think they should release those videos and do it quickly? >> yes, i do. because the video can tell a whole lot. they release the video, if they have nothing to hide, release the video. and let the people see what's going on. and it could bring back peace. >> you think that might actually help calm things down? >> yes, it will. i believe it will. >> willy, in your brother's case, video of the incident was not released until the officer was actually on trial. do you think that was a mistake and should police release the videos they have now? >> honestly, i'm glad that you mentioned that. when -- during my brother's situation, the video was not released, like you say, until trial started. and then i think that a lot of people were not table able to see the video beforehand. the jury did not really get the full effect. you can see the video, then you
hear the testimony from the defense team. when you're a jury member and you're not able to see the video before trial, you have -- you get -- you can get persuaded to think a certain way. they already paint the picture -- they painted a picture of my brother a certain way before the video was released, before the trial even started. so if the video is released and it's good that the wife released the video today. >> georgia, you, i know, have family members who are in law enforcement, and you've actually kept in touch with the charlotte police department since your son's death. you say you don't actually blame law enforcement as a whole for his death. i'm wondering what in your opinion needs to change. >> the training needs to be changed. to go from zero to deadly with an unarmed man, it needs to be changed. because i truly believe, if it had been any other person, jonathan probably would be here today. they've got to change it. >> and georgia, what do you want people to know about jonathan?
>> jonathan was a very kind-hearted person. he loved everyone. he did not see color. and i often think to myself, i never say this to anyone, but if he could have met jonathan, he probably could have been one of jonathan's close friends, because jonathan just loved people. he loved people. jonathan, he didn't have a mean or hateful bone in his body. and he was a truly, truly loving person. some may say he was a mama's boy, but he loved his fiancee. he was a good person, all-around. >> georgia and willy, again, i'm so sorry for your loss, but i do appreciate you coming in and talking with us tonight. >> definitely. thank you, guys, for having us, always. >> ahead tonight, the latest on the other police shooting that sparked outrage in tulsa. an officer has been charged with
protesters are marching tonight in charlotte and atlanta. i want to check in with martin savage, who is in atlanta, georgia. martin? >> reporter: anderson, the crowd continues to be organized and orderly. it's several hundred people. their goal tonight was to get to the king center. they've done that already. they've covered about two miles, moving through the streets of downtown. they have organizers who move ahead, block traffic, and then allow the crowd to move through. it's been very peaceful, it's been very loud. this is a protest that is supposed to be statewide and will continue through midnight eastern time, because they say the symbolism is, it is midnight in america. given what is taking place this past week, and with other police-involved shooting. this crowd is made up of a very diverse group of people, both by race and by age. and again, the organizers were just stressing, as they moved to what is now being called an undisclosed location, to remain in line and above all to remain
peaceful. and that has been the way this evening has progressed so far. no arrests, no incidents, moving orderly through the streets of downtown atlanta, disrupting traffic, but then moving on. anderson? >> martin savage, we'll continue checking in with you and all our other correspondents in charlotte and elsewhere. while charlotte has been rocked by protests and unrest this week, tulsa has served as a counterpoint. terence crutcher was shot and killed friday night in tulsa after his suv broke down. he was 40 years old. the tulsa police department released videos of the shooting on monday. the images sparked intense by peaceful protests, calling for charges against betty shelby, the officer who opened fire. now that has happened. sara sidner has the latest. >> reporter: an officer turned suspect in tulsa. officer betty shelby turned herself into authorities. she was booked and bonded out. the district attorney is charging her with first-degree manslaughter, a charge that means a minimum of four years in prison. a maximum of life in prison if a
jury convicts. shelby's attorney told cnn by phone the d.a.'s decision to charge her was a rush to judgment. but the family of terence crutcher, a father of four seen here in this police helicopter video, sees it much differently. is this a rush to judgment, as he says? >> well, if it was turned around and if it was you or i or anybody else that would have shot a police officer, then it wouldn't have been a rush to judgment. get 'em, we need to get 'em, throw away the key. but because it's an average guy, my brother, june, a bad dude, oh, there's a rush to judgment. he shouldn't have been shot down. it's not a rush to judgment at all. >> reporter: the reference to "bad dude," from someone in a police helicopter on the day of the shooting. >> that looks like a bad dude. >> reporter: officer shelby's attorney says his client didn't hear that comment, but feared for her life. >> based on her past specious and training, this person posed
an immediate threat of harm to him -- or to her and everyone present and she thought if she didn't take action right then, everyone would be in peril of serious bodily harm or death. >> reporter: officer shelby's attorney says she thought crutcher was reaching into his vehicle, while refusing to comply with her orders to get on the ground. the crutcher's attorney says that he couldn't have reached into the vehicle because the window was closed. the district attorney's lead investigator says that shelby had already cleared that vehicle without finding a weapon. court papers say she approached the vehicle and cleared the driver's side front and then proceeded towards the passenger side of the vehicle. and crutcher's sister now telling cnn something that has not been revealed publicly before. >> we clearly saw how slowly he was moving and people don't know this about my brother. my brother was disabled. my brother had a prosthetic eye. my brother had hearing loss. you know, we have to ask
terence, terence, over and over again, because he can't hear. >> reporter: bad eyesight, bad hearing, and crutcher said he was simply doing what he was taught to do by his father, attempting to put his hands on the car and wait for police. instead, he was killed. he had just left school. >> he wanted to make us proud. he wanted to do something bigger. he wanted to grow. he he wanted to become a better person. he wanted to be better. and he didn't want this. he didn't ask for this. and so, that's what i think about. sorry. i'm going to miss him. >> reporter: sara sidner, cnn, tulsa, oklahoma. >> a lot to discuss with the panel joining me again, david klinger, cedric alexander, and debora coats. the affidavit said that she reacted unreasonably by escalating the situation and she
became, quote, emotionally involved to the point where she overreacted. were you surprised that a charge came so quickly? >> i wasn't surprised. i would have been surprised had they charged her with first-degree murder or homicide, a much higher charge. that would have shown that there was some type of premeditation and not kind of a deference to officers who don't intend necessarily to go in their daily tasks and commit murder. this was looked at as a lapse of judgment, a rush to judgment, ironically, as was discussed in the video here. the person being judged for the rush judgment was actually miss shelby, and that is why she was ar charged. and think about it, tulsa, we already have an area where there's a proactive prosecutor involved in tulsa, where you have volunteer officer bates just a year ago who was tried and convicted for the same charge, for mistaking his gun for a taser. i'm not surprised that we have a proactive prosecutor here. >> david, it also says the
charge that she was, quote, in fear of her life and thought mr. crutcher was going to kill her. couldn't that be used to justify deadly force? >> she can raise that claim, but as i've said on other cnn shows, this is a stuinker. it doesn't make sense. there may be something that we're not seeing, because when the helicopter loops and you've got the vehicle in between the helicopter and where the shooting goes down, there could have been something happening. but there was nothing on that video that i saw that made much sense to me, from the way that the officers approached, to the way that they were treated. it just, i'm befuddled. >> what do you think it's a stinker, it doesn't make sense? you mean, it doesn't make sense that she shot? >> it doesn't make sense to me. you should be able to handle something like this. it's not a dynamic situation where someone's moving towards you. he's moving away from you, the arms are up. you should be able to find out some way, unless he did something at that door where he's reaching in skprm aing himself, that would be an
appropriate time to use deadly force. but short of that, it doesn't make any sense to me. >> cedric, what crutcher's family told sara sidner about him, that he only had one eye and poor hearing, does that factor into the case against officer shelby? >> well, she didn't know that coming up on him, of course. there was no way for her to know that. but, you know, this particular case, if she was indicted this quickly, i'm going to make the assumption that there was just clear evidence and probable cause very early on to suggest that this officer violated the law. i don't think it's going to be considered a rush to judgment. what i think it's going to be is not a delay in judgment where the facts are there, it is clear, and i'm going to be confident enough that that district attorney made a decision based on the evidence that was presented to him and it was whole and it was done in a manner and a time frame in which they felt was appropriate. >> and van, as far as community
reaction, just three days after the shooting, tulsa authorities released the chopper video, the dash cam video from three different cop cars, audio of police radio traffic, 911 calls, we even hear that in the chopper, you know, somebody saying that that guy looks like a bad dude or words to that effect. the officer has been charged. obviously, you don't want to bring charges to mitigate a bad reaction from protesters. but the differences between charlotte and tulsa do seem pretty stark. >> very stark. and again, you have to give some lenience here. i do think that because there's -- there are many, many more -- it looks like many more officers involved, you may want to hold that videotape back a little bit, to get a better outcome. let me say a couple of things. one, both of these cases have something in common now, which is this idea of disability. it's apparently, in one shooting, you have someone with a brain injury who can't comply. another one, someone is hearing impaired, you can't comply. if you are black and disabled -- another, somebody is dazed after
a car crash, maybe they can't imply. if you are african-american and you cannot comply, deadly force will be applied against you, because the assumption is always, you're a bad dude. that looks like a bad dude. so that is something i think we've got to start taking more seriously. how these factors come together pip also just want to -- there's an elephant in the room here. this is a female police officer. and i just want to point out that sometimes you have a clash of stereotypes. you know, the bad dude and the panicked woman. and i want to make sure that we do wait to get all the facts in here, because it could be that some officers are willing to throw another officer under the bus because she's a woman. i'm not saying that i believe that, i want to make sure we're looking at all the facts here. there could be a clash ofster o stereotypes. nothing i saw justified that shooting. i think probably the other officers said it wasn't justified, that's why you got this charge. but you could have a clash ofster y types. >> good to look at all the angles. ahead, we'll shift gears looking ahead to monday's presidential
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airbnb has given me is such a priceless gift. i was able to take three months off to take car of my family during a family tragedy. the extra income that i get from airbnb has been a huge impact in my life. protests continuing for the fourth night in charlotte. we're seeing them in atlanta, as well. as we reported earlier, secretary clinton planning a visit to charlotte on sunday. that would take them we from their debate prep for the debate on monday night. both candidates are said to be preparing in markedly different ways. trump is said to be strategizing with key advisers while maintaining an active campaign trial, while clinton has been mainly out of sight, prepping at her momentum in chappaqua, new york. the expectations are certainly high. and we wanted to know what should both candidates be doing over the next few days.
i'm joined by former jeb bush campaign spokesman, tim miller, bob shrum, and also with us, former u.s. senator, jud greg, who played a crucial role in debate preparations for george w. bush. and ely addyi, former chief speechwriter for the gore campaign. senator, you played both al gore and john kerry for debate preparations in george w. bush. can you explain the contingencies you run through in these final days and what you expect the clinton and trump campaigns are doing or should be doing tonight? >> we did everything. there was virtually no stone left unturned relative to what we thought al gore would say, how we thought he would deal with an issue, how we thought he would try to go on the offensive against the then -governor bush. and of course, he was a very aggressive debater. and basically, i studied for months what he said, how he said it, and tried to replicate that and not ad lib it, because it was basically, i wanted to repeat what gore was saying, so
that the then-governor could hear what gore was saying in the right context. >> and tim, i mean, you saw first hand, what donald trump did to your accompanied, jeb bush, on the debate stage. is that the dronald trump you expect to show up against hillary clinton? >> i don't for two reasons. one, i think the worst moments of his primary debate is when he took on carly fiorina. it's a different animal trying to bully around a woman. you can come off as demeaning and misogynistic. and when trump tried that against fiorina in the primary debates, it didn't work. so i'm sure what roger ailes and his debate team is telling him is to come off gracious. but whether he can pull that off, i'm skeptical. >> so if donald trump is trying to come off as presidential, do you try to poke him. not physically, obviously, but try to get him riled up? >> but not in an obvious way. if you're obvious about it, i think you'll pay a price.
i think you can bother him by almost -- you can say something perfectly reasonable, it gets under his skin and he has a really bad reaction. but i think instead of spending all their time on that, i hope that what they're doing is thinking about the moments they want to create. thinking about the strategy and thinking about something that most people don't necessarily understand. which is that framing the debate on your terms is more important than anything else. >> what do you mean? >> well, jfk in his opening statement in 1960 framed the debate. and nixon, who had won the coin toss and chose to go second foolishly did nothing but rebut what kennedy had said, and in the process, repeat it. so what you want to do is get your message frame out there. >> eli, you say if you combine donald trump and hillary clinton into one candidate, they would be the perfect debater. what do you mean by that? >> hillary clinton is good government and donald trump is good television. and i think her goal in the
debate should be all about style. she'll really been preparing her whole life about this moment. she knows the issues. she has enormous experience, she knows how to talk about anything related to policy. it's about her affect, it's about whether she can conduct. whereas trump, i don't think he's preparing for the debate now. i mean, that's the thing. he's kind of prep-resistant. i was reading this morning that his advisers can't even get him to stand at a lectern and they're worried about his ability to listen for 90 minutes. >> that sounds like -- >> yeah, i think they're lowering the bar. >> lowering the bar to the floor. >> i think there's a huge amount of spin in here. i think trump has been prepping. i think they've been doing it in a serious way, just as i think it's spin when clinton people won't tell us who's playing donald trump. they picked a donald trump three months ago. >> right, senator greg, i think i talked to stewart stevens a while back. and i want to ask you about something he said. because that famous moment in 2000, when al gore kind of invaded george w. bush's personal space, walking across the stage to him. i understand that you actually -- when you were gore, and as you said, you'd watched a
lot of his debating, he was an aggressive debater, you'd actually run through that possibility in rehearsals. how did you -- was it just from watching past debates, you knew he might do that? >> well, i knew al. and i'd also watched his debate style. and he was always on the offensive. and not to be too denigrating, but al really thought he was superior to george w. bush. and one of the ways he felt he could express it was to physically get in his space and look down on him because he was bigger than he was and help get an answer. so i thought he would do that, and we did practice that in debate prep. we only did it once, because the governor's reaction, soon to be president, was the exact same as on the stage, he looked at me as if i was -- with a bemused smile and moved on to the answer. my experience in these debates, the person who wins is the person who establishes himself with the american people, through the audience, it's going to be a huge audience, as being one reasonably likable. in that case, that's going to be a very big hurdle, because both are fairly disliked.
and secondly, one who's willing to lead this country in a positive direction and people sense that about them. if you win on those two accounts, you're more likable than your opponent and show you want to lead this country in a positive election, you'll win the debate and probably win the election. and that's where people have to focus their energies when they're getting ready for these debates. ho uh how do you project that? for hillary, it's a big issue, because of the problems she has on the ethical side. on trump's case, it's a big issue, because he's so erratic. >> eli, i talked to jim fellows from the atlantic the other night who wrote this big article about debates and looking back on debates. one thing he said, you can actually watch debates, perhaps they're best watched, with the sound down, and a lot of it has to do with how people respond to things. it and goes to the senator's point about how governor bush responded to al gore approaching him, just kind of laughing it off. ronald reagan saying, there you go again, and kind of, you know, kind of confidently brushing off jimmy carter. and jimmy carter kind of looking
peeved about it. do you think there's something to that, that sort of body language, and how people respond to stuff, is almost as important as what they say? >> well, i think it's certainly as important. you know, this is, to some degree, for voters who are deciding who to vote for, it's a bit of an audition. who do you want to invite into your home every night for the next four years, as a kind of -- voting for president is a very personal choice. it's a bit like choosing a new tv character in your life. and i think while trump has a kind of a raw authenticity, i don't think he radiates -- i don't think he puts people at ease. i think the people who want to hurl a molotov cocktail into the white house, he's got their support already. and i think for him to transcend that and to expand his vote, he's got to reach out. he's got to seem more presidential, and he's got to seem more temperamentally fit. i actually think that the bar is to incredibly low for hillary clinton right now, unfairly low, but, you know, if she doesn't come across as a dissembling robot with circuit boards kind of spilling out of her, i think she'll cross that bar.
she is a warm person and a smart person and a genuine person. i've worked around her. and i just think that she doesn't come across the way she's been chaaricatured. >> pope benedict xvied her trip to charlotte. clinton has tentatively planned to go to charlotte next sunday instead. coming up, in parts unknown, anthony bordain sluslurps noodln vietnam, in this segment coming up, they tried liver coming up, that's next. we got a tempur-flex... and it's got the spring and bounce of a traditional mattress. you sink into it, but you can still move around. and now that i have a tempur-flex, i can finally get a good night's sleep. change your sleep. change your life. change to tempur-pedic. what aremaking a cake!ht now?
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...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. anthony bourdain is back with new season of parts unknown, and travels to vietnam and has a meal with president obama. we sat down at an amazing restaurant in new york to talk about it. >> reporter: this upcoming episodes is in hanoi. i went to the university of hanoi back in the last six months of the u.s. embargo basically in '91. there were no cars in the city. it's completely changed now. >> hanoi has changed but the bones are still there. the things you probably loved about the place are still there, the french architecture, the boulevards, the smell of vietnam that grabs you and keeps you
forever. >> and although the food stands on the streets. >> the food stands, the sweet culture, the senssensibility, t colors. >> you sat down with president obama and went to a meal with president obama. how cool was that? >> we've been planning this for sometime, coluding. no one knew. the camera people didn't know. very few outside of white house knew. we knew we were going to do something and when we heard that the president was planning -- >> whose idea was it? >> the white house called. >> really? they're like the president likes you and we want a show with you? >> i don't know whatever wording but whatever reason, he seemed willing to play and my feeling was if we're going to do this, we should do it right, we shouldn't be sitting at a banquet room in the hilton, we should do what we do, we'll just hang out in some working-class place. >> did someone in the restaurant know he was about to pop in? >> no one knew in five minutes
the president of the united states is going to rollup. >> did people flip out? >> they flipped and really one of the great -- one of the great things that came out of it was the reaction of ordinary vietnam easvietna vietnamsese, as my mother approaches me with liver. >> i've never had liver. i love the tartar. it's incredible. >> i've never seen a guy enjoy a cold beer and a little plastic stool more than president obama, by the way. >> i can't wait to see that. tune in for "parts unknown" sunday on cnn and we'll be here for a live edition of 360 at 8:00, looking ahead to monday's presidential debate. we'll be right back. people say,
i rent this place and then i started home sharing. my roommates help out all the time. they are glad to meet the guests and that opportunity that airbnb has given me is such a priceless gift. i was able to take three months off to take car of my family during a family tragedy. the extra income that i get from airbnb has been a huge impact in my life. that's if for us. thanks for watching and i'll see you sunday night. cnn tonight with don lemon starts now. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. right now, you are looking live at charlotte, north carolina. protests, largely peaceful tonight for the fourth night after the fatal police shooting of keith lon