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iceberg? a car plows into students at ohio state university. 11 people are hospitalized, what appears to be the attackers facebook page is filled with threats and a warning to america. was this terrorism? we'll discuss that. and the man accused of killing 9 people at a black church in south carolina. dylann roof can represent himself. will survivors and family members be forced to come face to face with dylann roof. author of isis, inside the army of terror and juliet kui an. the new facebook post tonight is disturbing. let me read a portion of it. seeing my fellow muslims raped and killed in burma, i couldn't take it any more. if you want us to stop carrying

out attacks, make peace with allah. we will not let you sleep unless you give peace to the muslims, you will not celebrate or enjoy any holiday. every single muslim who disapproves of my actions is a sleeper cell waiting for my signal. i am warning you, oh, america. what does this tell us about how investigators proceed with this kind of information? >> this is a lot of proof, at least from our -- what we don't know is, is this the randings of a guy who has self-radicalized, has no contact with anyone, or has he been in contact or motivated and directed by ice isz and those abroad? that's where the investigation is going to lead. we can call it terrorism, because it looks like it is. and he's pronounced something akin to terrorism in these facebook posts. that is -- that does not prove

that this was directed by some terrorist organization. that's the challenging, if not chilling aspect of this form of violence that we're seeing throughout the united states. it's just these -- let's be honest, these guys online, waking up expressing some sentiment and using a car, very easy weapon to get, and a soft target like a university which with not be made harder because you want students to be able to walk around and engage in all of things that happen at colleges and universities. >> this man had spoken back in august, humans of ohio state, and here's what he said. he said, i wanted to pray in the open, i was scared with everything going on in the media. i'm a muslim, it's not what people portray me to be. if people look at me, a muslim praying, i don't know what they're going to think. i don't blame them. the tone of his comments is so

different. does this speak to how he became radicalized? >> there's the internal thinking versus what he wanted to externally express to a campus publication. we don't know enough about his psychology. the state in syria or the lavant. that would lead me to suspect isis and its propaganda had something to do with this. this is cookie cutter jihad stuff. everybody who commits an isis inspired attack, al awlaki is the starter. i would say this is an open and shut jihad terrorism. isis directed? we don't know the likelihood is small. isis inspired? greater possibility.

>> isis' state security apparatus trained up informants and people on the inside told me that isis is always looking to hit the united states. particularly minnesota and drawing from the somali community there. then we saw the attack in st. cloud, now we're seeing this, i asked today, do you know anything about this, isis is trying to set up recruitment centers in north america. not necessarily people who have been to syria and iraq, people who are remotely radicalized, who are agents of the califate who go around and recruit more people. >> if you ask me, and we does, i was on cnn six hours ago, i said not enough information. >> do you agree, julia? >> i do, and i think it's -- the investigation is going to be, are there foreign ties, were there conversations with people abroad oregon people here.

>> he's given us enough motivation. if i could add one thing here during this time in which you're going to get isis to try to inspire people to do these kinds of attacks, one of the things we have to look at, and i have to applaud them publicly, is the response apparatus at this university. the techs that went out, the communication, the quick response to kill him all of those are part of how we need to think about our counter terrorism strategy, which is, no one else died, and there was a very strong response. you're not going to be able to stop every single one of these guys it's part of the narrative that's going on right now. this was a horrible incident. but also, a plot in the investments made, first responders, the community, the college, the university to engage the students to protect

themselves. on earlier segments, you showed pictures of what the students were doing. >> would you mention more bloodshed was prevented by alan, who stopped the armed attacker. we owe him a debt of gratitude for sure. >> that's exactly right. >> thank you. >> go on. >> that's exactly right, you think about a homeland security strategy, given the terrorist threat we have now, there's going to be a focus on immigration, refugees, preventing this, cyber controls, making sure they don't have access to training or radicalization. there has to be an equal emphasis on preparing ourselves for these attacks. it's clearly put investments in in the technology, communication and the ability of shooter protocols to minimize the harms, and that's unfortunately in the world that michael and i are in, that's also a success that no

one else died. >> thank you very much. i appreciate that. >> i want to turn to the latest on the presidential election. donald trump's search for a secretary of state. good evening to both of you. today's attack in ohio is a reminder, whoever donald trump picks for secretary of state is going to have to deal with terror in so many ways. are we closer to learning who's likely to get the job? >> i think it's safe to say the pace of these meetings and interview interviews really is picking up, trump is putting a large focus on appointing this top spot. today meeting with general petraeus, tomorrow meeting with bob corker and having a dinner meeting with mitt romney. we also know that rudy giuliani is under contention for this post as well.

it's really this giuliani versus romney infighting within the trump transition team that is ruling the headlines right now, that said, the decision over secretary of state is donald trump's and donald trump's alone. he has not yet made that decision. he's moving forward with other cabinet picks. transition officials confirming he has chosen for hhs secretary, congressman tom price, we expect that announcement to be made tomorrow. >> notice meantime, he's tweeting about voter fraud, retweeting angry posts about journalists reporting on jeff zeleny. >> trump has been claiming that even though he won the election, that he believes that he is a victim of voter fraud, claiming he believes he should have won the popular vote. we know that hillary clinton is ahead in the popular vote by more than 2 million votes at this point. these are basic allegations, one

my colleague has reported doing some great reporting on all day, saying no one on the trump trarnz igs team nor donald trump himself producing any evidence whatsoever to back up these claims. trump seems to be not too happy before that. he's taking to twitter, retweeting, a whole series of people on line, complaining about this sort of reporting. one, notably, according to their twitter, that person at filibuster, tweeting to jeb tonight. pathetic, you have no sufficient evidence. donald trump did not suffer from voter fraud shame, bad reporter. donald trump also retweeting something else, talking about jeff's reporting, what proof do you have donald trump did not suffer from physicals of fraud votes? now, to note, again, cnn has been reporting on this all day, no one from the trump transition team has produced any evidence to back up these claims, and very notably, the election officials in all three states

where donald trump himself is claiming voter fraud says, that is baseless as well. don? >> selena? >> donald. >> it's just don by the way. my legal name is don, not donald. despite evidence of voter fraud, he's sending out these tweets. they do appeal to his supporters, why? >> back in september, when i interviewed him, i quoted my friend of saying, voters take him seriously, but not literally. we take him literally, but not seriously. >> it's great reporting. it all made sense after that. >> thank you. >> as much as it could make sense. >> we need to think about that. words mean completely different things not only to him, but to his supporters and his voters. we as reporters and politicians, we take words incredibly seriously. we -- that's how we conduct our business, in how we report, how

we look at things and how we tell stories and how we find facts. >> don't you think leaders around the world may not be able to make that distinction? >> it's an interesting distinction on your part don't you think that's important for leaders around the world to take him literally and seriously? >> absolutely. i'm just explaining what's going on, right? and that's how people view him. after he went on his rampage tweet about hamilton, and when he was talking about these millions of voters, i reached out to the trump voters that supported him. they're fine with it, they want -- they like this guy. they feel as though he has their back, and they also feel like they're speaking -- he's speaking to power. and he's just letting them know. >> he's gotten a lot of press, he appears to be backing away from the campaign promises, which they may not care about

either. they don't care. >> well, about obama care, i interviewed him in april, he did say that back then, that he wanted to keep the 26-year-old part in the obama care, he thought that was important. and he thought the pre-existing conditions was important to keep in place. >> what was the other yes, i forgot? >> we talked about obama care, building the wall. >> i did a piece for the washington post about a week ago. i said, so what about this wall? >> we never thought he was going to build it anyway. >> we never expected him to build a wall. that's what people don't understand about this election. people don't think we heard them, we didn't listen enough to them. >> and all of it is just a big distraction from maybe conflicts of interest because he is a master at manipulating the media. >> he is a businessman first. whether he will be a good or not good president, it's way too

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did russia influence our election? what does vladimir putin want and how will president-elect trump deal with limb?

as i understand, jill, we have a delay, so i want to warn our viewers tell us about these reports of russians trying to influence our election through the spread of fake news on social media. >> you have a lot of things going on. let's back up, we have the allegations that they hacked into computers for election officials. we also had the hacking definitely of e-mails by the dnc, and john podesta. and you have this murky world which is fake news. i think that's what people are talking about right now. it's a complex world in which yes, russia has an operation, a very big operation to kind of spew these stories. sometimes they're blatant lies, sometimes they're half truths all mixed up, they put them out

and they kind of get into this circular situation of fake news being put out by other people for their own purposes. it could be alt-right, white nationalists, european people on the right as well. i think overall the question is, did this really affect the election. it's very hard to really pin that down. because how do you say how many fake stories does a person believe? >> what do experts think happen? is it hard for them to pin it down? do they have an idea of what happened? >> there are a couple reports that have come out, actually, i would say three pretty new and very interesting reports. and what they have done is, they've taken the metadata for all of these fake news stories, and they've kind of traced them back and said, okay, there's some people out there who are using click bait, you know what that is, getting people to click

on and making money from it, so eliminate those. but look at the people or look at the conversations that are engendered by fake news. are they designed to kind of -- you know, attract people, get them talking about fake stories? let's say hillary's illness was a very good example? some of the earliest reports of her when she fell were -- came out from the russian media, from russian tweets, they analyze this metadata, and then they can kind of say, okay, this probably came from an organized source. but don, you know, and we can talk about this more, the overall purpose is not always individual tweets about individual facts or nonfacts. it's really at least for the russians, to give the impression to people that american democracy is chaotic, it's not working, that the system is a mess, and, therefore, don't

believe in american democracy, it's not hard to make that point by the way, when you have a candidate in fact, donald trump himself, saying the system is rigged. >> douglas, what does putin want. what does russia want to get out of this? >> traditional russian expansionism, we tried to contain it in the cold war, it's rearing its head again. they want more of a free rain in the ukraine, they like to have assad back in power in syria. they'd like to be left alone by the united states in doing that, they see in donald trump, somebody that's going to treat them as a partner. barack obama has zero love loss for the putin government. george w. bush flirted with putin for a moment, and then backtracked from that. for putin, who is feeling the economic sanctions, who's feeling isolated, oil presses have dropped, he'd like to get back into the game with the

united states, but on his term and what the trump administration is going to have going for them, is we both have the same enemy in isis. there's a possibility of seeing us doing joint military exercises. it may be russians that kill civilians, not us. >> as a historian, have you ever seen this kind of thing before? a foreign country meddling in u.s. elections? or is this a new online world with news spreading by clicks and shares and meddling by foreign governments? douglas? >> well, there used to be. there was a zimmerman telegram that was kind of insighting mexico to declare war on the united states in the world war i era. if they would do that, germany would give them back arizona and new mexico. this kind of intrigue has gone on, but not in the way where

russia is supporting wikileaks. going after the democratic party. and this strange love affair between trump and putin there's never been anything like it. yes, there was interest with nixon and brezhnev. what's going on with trump and putin is one of the stranger developments of 2016. >> yeah. just the average person in russia, what are they saying about this? >> well, i think it goes along with with what they're getting from their own domestic media. which is the united states is a mess. if i'm sitting here as a russian, i might say, yes, there are allegations that we here in russia have elections. and many russians would agree, that have not been totally above board. but look at those americans, it's even worse? and their own presidential candidate is saying that that's

the system that exists there. should i think that the united states is a paragon of virtue? and that i want that? i think this more than anything, don. is what russian propaganda, if you want to put it that way, is trying to do. which is not so much say, hey, our system is a lot better. watch russia do what we're doing, to say the united states is a mess, the united states is weak and falling apart and democracy is just a fake. don't believe it, it's more tearing down than building up an alternative message. >> all right, jill. jill and douglas, thank you very much. when we come back, dylann roof accused of a brutal shocking crime, the killings of nine people at a black church in charleston, south carolina. he's being allowed to represent himself at trial. is that right?

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dylann roof is accused of killing nine people at a predominantly black church in charleston, south carolina last year.

there are already questions about the proceedings. let's discuss now, jeffrey tube en toobin and jennifer. i want to start with you, you were inside that courtroom today, what happened? tell us about the proceedings. >> the morning had started pretty predictably. people were arriving, expecting jury selection to begin. the proceedings had been delayed for three weeks at that point. waiting for a competency hearing. and roof's hadn'tal state on friday, the judge ruled he was competent to stand trial. most people were expecting that to go forward. when the judge took his seat, he discussed the fact that he received a last minute motion for roof to represent himself and he moved forward with that

pretty quickly made a decision that roof had the right and the capacity to represent himself, suddenly the entire nature of the day and the proceedings changed. >> what was his demeanor? >> he was like he always is, when i've seen him in court. he was quiet, respectful, answered the judge with yes, sirs and really did not elaborate a lot on much of anything, other than to ask the judge questions. he was dressed in his gray jail jumpsuit, and so he really looked a lot like when we see him. docile and shy seeming, didn't communicate with his attorneys, didn't say much other than to answer the judge's questions in very succinct manners. really seemed very docile is the

best way i can put it. >> he was granted the right to represent himself after the judge declared him competent. from a legal perspective, is that a smart move? >> it's a ridiculous move if you're trying to limit your punishme punishment, to try to get acquitted. i think, the paradox here is, we all know dillon roof committed this crime, anyone who could commit a heinous, horrific crime, has to be crazy in some ka loch weal sense. legally, he is probably not insane because that's a very difficult standard to meet, if you're trying to meet it, the fact that he committed this crime, makes it understandable he would want the focus of attention to be on himself as the lawyer in the trial, when everyone knows he's not going to be acquitted and it is a virtual

certainty he'll get the death penalty too. >> i asked jennifer to take us inside the courtroom, what he's like inside of a courtroom, remember the emotional moment during his bond hearing, it was on television, let's listen to this. >> we welcome you wednesday night in our bible study, with open arms. you have killed some of the most beautiful people i know. every fiber in my body hurts. and i'll never be the same. this is my son. he was my hero for all the world, my hero. but as we say in bible study, we enjoyed you. may god have mercy on you.

>> it's really surreal to watch it. >> it's awful. this whole case. i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. >> jennifer, you have been very close to some of the family members of these victims, what do you think of him being able to represent themselves, what do they think? >> well, i think a lot of them feel this is his attempt to make a circus out of this trial and deprive their loved ones of any real justice. i think, however, if dylann roof is imagining that he'll be able to question them on the witness stand and they may fall apart or they may be frail, weak people, i think he's going to find he's wrong. the woman whose voice you just heard is one of the survivor's of the shooting, she and polly sheppard, the other woman who was in the bible study during

the shooting, they both were in the courtroom monday and they're both very strong wise women of faith, i think they have some things to say to dillon roof as well. his decision to represent himself may open doors for them to speak their minds on some issues. they are just remarkably resilient and strong. and i think that that's what we may wind up seeing. i'm not sure i would concede the turf to roof, there's been some discussion, perhaps he wants to have control and the power in this trial, i think what you'll find is that the survivors of the shooting in particular are extremely wise and grounded strong women. he may find that that approach backfires if that's what he's thinking. >> there's another factor as

well, and jennifer can correct me if i'm wrong. i think the judge is going to take a firm hand here and not let dillon roof turn this case into a circus. federal court tends to be a place where the judge exercises a lot of control. the judge gets what's going on here, he's not going to let these victims suffer unduly beyond what they have already suffered. i think to the extent dylann roof thinks he is smarter than everyone in the courtroom by making this effort, it's wrong. mass murderers often do this. >> we saw ted bundy, we saw charles manson. >> zacarias moussaui, the 10th hijacker. the narcissism of committing a crime like this, manifests itself in trying to draw attention at the trial as well. >> jeffrey, jennifer, thank you. appreciate it. we'll be right back. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette.

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donald trump won the election, why is he questioning the vote? here to discuss, kayliegh mc mcenany. let's get into some of these incendiary tweets, he claims millions of people voted illegally. what's your reaction? >> i think we can call that a bold faced lie. donald trump needs to focus on governing and running the country. every moment, every breath. this brings us another point. donald trump, we can see the fervor in which he tweets about this voter fraud, which is a flat out lie. we can see the fervor at which he tweets it. we don't see the same fervor

when we're talking and asking him to repudiate the hate attacks going on. we asked him to dedicate some energy in bringing this country together. when people question us about what more do we want donald trump to do? i want donald trump to repudiate the attacks, the hateful attacks that are going on in this country the same way that he talks about voter fraud. >> he probably never will do it. do you think he tweets more as a distraction than anything of substance and we should start ignoring the tweets? many times they're not true. >> she probably doesn't know -- i felt it was a distraction from conflicts of interest, from the bloomberg article, about the state controlled bank of china which is his largest tenant

having to renegotiate. i think donald trump is just a scared man, i think he's scared someone is going to take this away from him, and he's tweeting in reaction to this. >> okkayleigh we talked about this, serious bias, big problem. is he at risk of undermining his own legitimacy. >> i don't think so, to paris' point he made the last hour, you have people trying to delegitimize the president-elect of the united states right now. not only saying you lost the popular vote over and over again. he would have won it, because he would have campaigned definitely. you have people out there calling for recounts that are unsubstantiated. you have jill stib coming on our knelt work suggesting there were hacks or potentially hacks and

we won't know until we count the votes. >> why would he care? here's the other thing, though, don't you think that people are going on maybe the current president is sitting there going, now you know how it feels to have people try to delegitimize you as a president? >> i think you do. and in some ways the president of the united states is sticking up for donald trump. he asked his question and got his answer and he moved on. >> no, he never moved on. >> i have to praise president obama, he's slapped this down, and said, hey, the people spoke, let's give him a chance. >> i don't have -- i have into idea what you're saying. >> i'm saying president obama has been great in all this, and i want to commend him for standing up for the people's vote and let's give this guy a chance. it's fantastic. >> now he knows how it feels to have people say, at least insinuate you're not a legitimate president. what does that have to do with

the president saying, you know -- the president is being gracious and classy saying, we must accept the outcome of the election. >> the president is doing that, but elements of the left won't do that, jill stein, now hillary clinton is jumping on board with this, and i wish they would follow the lead of the president of the united states. >> go ahead, paris. >> i think kayleigh's absolutely right. this is a moment for secretary clinton to be the senior states woman that she is and not entertain this radical belief that mr. trump is not going to be or is not the president-elect and these silly frivolous recounts. i think she should not be doing this, because it takes her down another rabbit hole that is not tasteful, and it's frankly beneath her. >> let bakari get in. >> they're fundamentally incorrect and wrong. hillary clinton campaign is not doing anything other than sending lawyers to monitor a recount that's going to happen

anyway. she didn't commence this recount, she's not spending any money or resources on this recount. all she's doing is going to send lawyers to monitor a recount that's happening anyway. to say this is somehow hillary clinton's recount or she's not being a states man or she's supposed to do more, is completely outrageous. i absolutely enjoy the hypocrisy and somewhat -- it's a good giggle for me, when people say, people are trying to delegitimize donald trump, after year after year after year in which donald trump made his political stone -- >> did you not just hear me ask that question. >> there's a big difference. >> you have to appreciate the irony. >> there's a big difference between -- >> i see it, and i think people at home see it, and most of the voters see it. paris, it's also false for trump to say that the electoral college vote was a landslide. it was certainly an upset, it was far from a landslide. you go back to 1980, he had a

smaller margin than the reagan elections, george w. bush, barack obama's two elections, he tops only george w. bush's two narrow wins, can he call this a landslide? why is he calling this a landslide? it's not a landslide. he got way more than most people thought, you can't really call this a landslide? >> i think you can if you look at how much he -- how better he did than secretary clinton. >> you're changing the definition of landslide? >> well, i think it -- >> you can say he did better because he won, but can you call something a landslide when it's not actually a landslide? is that what you're doing? >> if you look at how well he did against secretary clinton in the electoral college, it was a landslide. you can go back and say -- >> it wasn't a landslide, paris. a landslide is only a landslide, when it's the definition of a landslide. that's not the definition of a landslide. that's you changing the definition of a landslide. >> it's you not liking my

explanation. >> you look at the definition of a landslide, this is not one. let me read this again, it is also false to say the electoral college vote was a landslide, you go back to 1980, his 306 electoral votes, give him a smaller margin than both reagan, george w. bush, bill clinton's two elections, obama's two elections. he only tops george w. bush's two narrow wins. i'm asking you the definition of a landslide. yes, he won, he won by a big margin, it wasn't a landslide, why is he saying that? >> because it was a landslide. i believe it was a landslide. >> thank you, paris, we'll be right back. "exercise more." i know that. "try laxatives..." i know. believe me. it's like i've. tried. everything! my chronic constipation keeps coming back. i know that. tell me something i don't know. (vo) linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation,

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order now at ancestrydna.com and save 30%. offer ends monday. back with me, paris did come back. he said we were just having a little fun. everybody at home, don't take it so seriously. >> don knows he won by a landslide. >> okay. if you makes you happy, it was a landslide. we'll call methe dictionary and change the definition of a landslide. >> i'll tweet it. >> let's talk about the people on the trump camp being opposed

to mitt romney because of his speech in march. >> there's plenty of evidence his promises are as worth less as a degree from trump university. he gets a free ride to the white house and all we get is a lousy hat. >> if he picks mitt romney, will this grass roots supporter, his grass roots supporters, will they forgive and forget? >> i think they'll need reassurances that president elect trump will governor like he ran. i think the person who should be put in place is the person who most closely wants to advocate for trump's foreign policy. for me, that's rudy giuliani. >> paris? >> i think the challenge for governor romney is how does he walk back all the things he said and say i'm going to wear that lousy hat, as he called it, and champion the trump

administration vision worldwide. it will be a tall order for him to do that and seem credible or seemed like he was not just become a political opportunist. i think it will be difficult for him. >> he's not the only one. people who are close to donald trump right now and even on his team who criticized trump harshly during the election. why is mitt romney so different? >> i don't know what they're doing with him other than publicly tormenting him. >> should he withdraw his name? >> withdraw his name and keep some dignity. mitt romney doesn't need this job. he can still contribute to the world and peace throughout the world and can continue to be a diplomat if he chooses. but to take this lashing he took from kellyanne conway on state of the union, from various supporters around the country, trump supporters around the country, i'm just not sure why he's going through this public embarrassment. the fact is i hope that rudy

giuliani is the pick. the confirmation hearings will be exciting. i don't know how he gets through screening. you have an attorney who doesn't believe in the voting rights act. a secretary of education who doesn't believe in public education. you look at the long litany of things that are going on in this administration, and it's off to a bumpy start. >> and it gives us a lot to report about over the next four years to say the least. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. place." "hey!" "hey!" "ahhhh." "charades?" "yeah, let me check my score too." "try credit karma. it's free." "check out credit karma today." "credit karma. give yourself some credit."

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gotta tune the "a." (humming) take a closer look at geico. great savings. and a whole lot more. voting is underway for the cnn hero of the year. here is one of the top ten heroes. meet brad lunen. >> rivers are amazing teachers. i've learned about what makes me happy and what i want to pursue and do each day. the idea came to me when i was 18. that's when i started working on it. my aunt was diagnosed with cancer as a young adult. that affected my entire family,

me included. a few years later, i chose to pursue kayaking. i realized i wanted to find a way to give that sport that experience back to other people who could benefit from it and the natural choice was people with cancer after seeing what my aunt went through. young adults with cancer are the most underserved and their facing unique challenges f. for these reasons and others, the population deserves attention. you see it at the bottom of the rapids. the look of accomplishment and pride on their faces. you can't give to that someone. it's something they have to earn. this allows them that opportunity. you can vote for brad or any of the favorite top ten heros now at cnn heros.com. so glad you could join us. thank you for watching. ill see you back here tomorrow. good evening, thanks for joining us. day 20 of the trump transition

has been high on drama and intrigue. we'll get to all of that shortly. but from internal feuding over whether mitt romney should be tapped to be secretary of state, to allegations of voter fraud absent any evidence at all coming from the president-elect, himself. to the recount effort being steered by green party candidate jill stein. she joins us tonight. first, the breaking news from ohio. tonight, investigators are working to determine if an attack on the campus of ohio state university was, in fact, terrorism. the source telling cnn the attacker posted grievances about attacks on muslims on facebook. this morning, students just returning from thanksgiving break came face to face with the unthinkable. a car drove into a crowd, a man with a knife jumped out. he hurt 11 people before he, himself, was shot dead. as we do on "360," in situations like this, we try not to overuse the attacker's name, not to give him the attention he might crave. we do think it's important you're aware of, what else we're learning as authorities continue to look for clues. brynn gingras has the latest. >> reporter: tonight university police naming the suspected attacker as osu student abdul