tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN December 2, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
regulated. >> i want this story of her death to be that cautionary tale that will save other people's lives. >> sara sidner, cnn sodona, arizona. >> tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. only here an cnn. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next. breaking news. trump risking a major international incident breaking protocol, doing something no president has dope in nearly 40 years. and trump and clinton aides come face to face and tempers fly. you will hear it tonight. and president obama's gift to the president elect. why frump is calling it a joke. let's go "outfront."trump is ca. let's go "outfront." breaking news. president elect donald trump shocking the world with a verboten phone call speaking
with the president of taiwan which is something no american president has done in nearly 40 years. the reason is china considers taiwan part of its territory. trump's move is said to start war. and saying these are major pivots in foreign policy without any plan. that is how wars start. the u.s. has had no diplomatics relations with taiwan since 1979, respecting the so-called one china policy. the trump transition team releases a statement saying during the discussion trump and the taiwanese president noted the close ties that exist. we are learning at this hour that an advisor to the trump transition steven yates is in taiwan and helped facilitate this call. this was no mistake. yates is a former advisor to
vice president dick cheney. known to be pro taiwan. and further shocking the world the obama administration was not told about this call, no idea that it happened until afterwards. jim sciutto based in beijing as a u.s. dploemtd diplomat. covered china for 20 years. this was a stunning development tonight. >> if there was an expressway to cause diplomatic up roar with china this is the way to do it. it is a deep relationship u.s. and taiwan. the u.s. sells arms to taiwan. it's never been simple between the u.s., taiwan and china. however in china it is based on the recognition. recognition of the beijing, as china as china. a one china policy. you recognize china as the seat at the u.n. security council. you recognize china beijing as the seat of government of china and taiwan something different. to have the us head of state
call the taiwanese head of state, there is a reason that hasn't happened for 40 years. because those communications between the heads of state should be between the head of the chinese state and the u.s. state. this is not just a disruption of protocol. it is something that has enormous diplomatic and political meaning, certainly to china. i'll tell you tonight it is a 100% certain there are heads spinning in beijing. >> it is in essence truly incredible that this is happening tonight. jim, thank you. i want to go to ivan watson now. our senior correspondent based in hong kong, actually here in new york tonight. and we're awaiting the chinese response. obviously early in the morning in beijing. >> 8:00 in the morning on a saturday there. so it is a bit early. and it will be very interesting to see the response. at every high level meeting you have between the chinese and u.s. officials the policies on taiwan are reiterated again and again. and the chinese will certainly see this as an infringement of their sovereignty. was a they view taiwan as a
renegade province. and do not like any sign that the u.s. could recognize it as a separate state, for instance, by talking to the president of taiwan. >> and this is for them a pretty stunning thing to wake up. barack obama sold them those weapons but when it came to diplomacy he stuck to the policy. this is the violation of that. >> the u.s. doesn't have an embassy in taiwan. it has an american institute of china there. so it doesn't have official diplomatic relations and it is a very carefully calibrated relationship. yes the u.s. sells weapon, billions of the dollars of weapon withes with taiwan but doesn't officially hold meetings with the government there. and china is the world's second largest economy. we have massive trade with china. as the growing super power there and that relationship has to be balanced very carefully. what will the reaction be? it is a little too early to say but i can anticipate the chinese state media will likely blast this conversation. >> you would imagine. ivan, stay with me. i want to go now to ambassador
christopher hill, assistant secretary of state for east asia under george w. bush. should trump have had this conversation with the president of taiwan? >> obviously he should not have. we've had for 40 years rather clear policies how to implement the one china policy. eight years of the reagan administration this never happened. four years of the bush senior administration. eight years of clinton. eight years of george w. bush and eight years of obama. so this is a real break. obviously it was an example of what is all too often happening now with this incoming administration. this tendency to wing it. what i'm concerned about is that rather than acknowledge a mistake, they will double down on it, say that this is indeed an effort to change some of the terms of our one china policy. and it is a huge mistake. we have a lot of stuff going on
with china. south china sea, north korea. we don't need this right now. >> and to your point about them doubling down this was not a mistake. we know a pro taiwan member of trump's team who worked closely with dick cheney facilitated this. call. no one called the white house or the state department before the phone call was made. was it done on purpose in secret. >> i do know the individual you are talking about, steve yates. he worked for dick cheney, and he worked on taiwan. and he beavered away with really a concept that there was no such thing as the people's republic of china. well there is. and this shouldn't have been done. and whether it was steve yates trying to organize this. there should have been someone in the transition, perhaps the national security advisor, say wait a minute let's think this through. and clearly there is just too much on the side of winging it and this deinstitutionalization that is going on.
that why ask the state department? why ask the national security council staff? why not just go ahead because it feels right? and this is not going to be the last of these kind of things. things need to get cleaned up and cleaned up in a hurry in washington. >> ambassador hill, thank you for joining us tonight. joining me now our panel. >> ben you just heard ambassador hill this is a real break with policy. trump is winging it. does trump know what he's doing? >> this may be the most calm i've ever been on your show. one this is not winging it. two, i think it was simply a phone call. and three, i think this can be
used for leverage when you are dealing with china when it comes to trade deals. this is well-thought out by trump and the people around him. the other thing is this is not going to start a war. this is a simple phone call. there are many people who say trump was winging it. this is well thought out by him and i think his team. and the other mistake here is let's not over react to this. i think a lot of people appreciate the fact that we know about this early on before he's even been sworn? >> what do you think about that david? interesting point. defense saying it is a simple phone call. no president has made such a simple phone call to taiwan's leader in 37 years. but is trump right to throw protocol out. keeping protocol and one china has not stopped china in going against the united states in the military build up, in south china sea, in north korea or in trade. >> well donald trump has given new meaning to an old phrase. "bull in a china shop." i'm among those who are seriously taken aback by
learning about the call. this this has been the most carefully thought out relationship for years and years by republicans and by democratic presidents going all the way back to richard nixon that it is important to maintain a one-china policy, carefully maintaining the independence of the taiwan but the assurance that chinese across the straits don't attack taiwan and taking it over. and they can cannot go independent. the taiwanese government has a new administration now in place that leads very heavily towards independence. and for donald trump to make this call is going to infuriate the chinese. because they are going to see he's actually making a huge shift in policy. and if that is the case it is going to cause a serious disruption in our relationship with china. >> would you i infuriate is the right word? >> absolutely. and the taiwanese are very isolated. so any time they see some --
>> president obama sold taiwan nearly $2 billion in weapons. something ivan talked about a moment ago. that deeplying anered china but he kept the one china policy in tact. he kind of said one thing. and did another. what is so different about trump saying guess what i'm going to come outlet and say. enough dancing around the issue. i'm going say it and put it out there publicly. is that so wrong? >> well there are different layers and degrees of what's public. barack -- president obama made sure there was some kind of conversation happening with china. but in the diplomatic community in the way things work in the rest of the world, in the relationship with the rest of the world when you suddenly talk to a foreign head of state it elevates everything and to do that before you are even in office is unprecedented. this is the president elect and he has ever right to decide to change policy. but really what's concerning about this, is that it doesn't seem to be based on any type of strategy or recognition of the relationship and the importance
with u.s. economy has with china. for example china has the largest foreign debt holder of the united states. they have a big influence on our economy which is part of the reason we try to play nice in the sand box with them. >> with all due respect this goes back to donald trump's campaign promise where he said china has been getting the better of us for the last 15, 20 years. look what they have been doing with building islands in the middle -- let me finish. >> you cut me -- >> -- which one has been more aggressive towards the united states. >> -- let's talk about building. >> -- or trade war issues or military expansion in building islands in the middle of nowhere. donald trump is saying guess what, you are not going to keep pushing us around and he made a simple phone call. if people freak out in china over this that is what their media -- >> -- this is exactly what we're concerned about is the buildings that are going on in the trump
universe. actually the only evidence we have of any strategy behind this is confirmation from a mayor in taiwan that trump has explored and declared interest in building hotels in taiwan. the american public has an expectation that when the president engaging with foreign leaders it is for the safety and security of the united states and the advance of the american economy and not of trump international. >> thank you. trlg point. next trump and clinton aides faces off for the first time since the election. >>interesting point. next trump and clinton aides faces off for the first time since the election. >>. plus trump's pick for defense secretary, general james "mad dog" mattis. my next guest a navicey seal wh served with mattis on the
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as top advisors came face to face for the first time since the election. the clinton team criticizing the trump campaign of fuelling racism to run the white house. >> if providing a platform for white supremacist makes me a brilliant tactician, i would rather have lost. i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> that's very clear today, no you wouldn't, respectfully. >> and tangling over steve bannon. trump's chief strategist. >> it is a very very important moment in our history of our country h. and i think as his presidentially goes forward iasm going to be very glad to be part of the campaign that -- >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? are you going to look me in the face and tell me that? >> do you think this woman who
has nothing can common with anybody -- >> a postmortem on the presidential race. a staple on the campaign since 19772 erupted in these extraordinary exchanges. the advisors looked one another squarely in the eye across a table as they argued about clinton winning the popular vote and trump the electoral college. >> >>[chatter]. >> sure. nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere -- >> i'm not -- >> -- >> i premised my statement by saying -- >> -- we won. you don't have to respond. why is there no mandate? you have lost 60 congressional seats prince president obam seats since president obama. you just reelected a guy who represents liberal new york and a woman who represents liberal san francisco as your leader. you learned nothing from this election. >> -- intended to write a first draft of history amid the
campaign. >> one thing that was missed all along in this election is something we noticed early on. is there is a difference to voters between what offends you and what effects you. >> voters overwhelmingly wanted change. and we saw that. i think anybody look at the race saw that. and obviously that did create some head winds for hillary. >> so the clinton campaign in denial or simply defend her one last time? erin perhaps it is a little of both. but sitting in that room yesterday was so tense. this is fifth one of these forums i've been too. bush/gore was the first back in 2000. that was calm and civil compared to yesterday's exchange with the trump and clinton campaigns. erin. >> thank you jeff. and stay with me for a moment because i want to go to jake tapper now. you also had a chance to speak
directly with trump and clinton's campaign managers at this event. incredibly heated. what was that like? >> well it was really interesting. and again both of them talking about the flaws and the faults on the other side in addition to focusing on fbi director comey and russian intelligence allegedly hacking into the dnc and john podesta's e-mails. robbie mook talked a lot about the truth and this horrible development of so called fake news. take a listen. >> steve bannon ran breitbart news which was notorious for peddling stories like this. i'm not attacking him personally but they peddled a lot of false stories on that website that are just false and not true and reinforce sexist, anti-semitic notions in people. headlines that just make your -- you know, are shocking and
insulting and shouldn't be part of our public discourse. >> kellyanne? >> i think the biggest piece of fake news in this election was that donald trump couldn't win. so there is that. and that was peddled probably weeks and months in the closing days. especially. >> you heard in the response there from kellyanne conway, no real acknowledgment of the fact that there was this propaganda, this disinformation put out there, just crazy stories about hillary clinton, crazy conspiracy theories. some of them put forward by members of the trump team themselves. instead just focusing on what she thought was the problem which was the media writing off donald trump. again neither side willing to give ab inch when it comes to things they could have done better. false and mistakes that they made. >> jake, thank you. >> thank you erin. and you can s and. >> you can see more of his discussion on state of the
european union union monday morning at 9:00. you heard jeff zeleny a moment ago say that this was extraordinary. has this ever been this heated this personal? >> no. no one can remember it. it's been remembered as a civil affair. one, and actually where campaign managers put down their swords and often they become friends. they become comrades in arms. same trade, same industry. and they get along together. so this is a shock. i do think we have an unprecedented campaign and now we have unprecedented aftermath. the war goes on. and wounds are deep. the war goes on. and it does not spell good days misdemeanor in terms of governance. because if people are this angry at each other and distrust each other this much. it is very very hard to if govern. >> and just reflecting what some in the country feel. you heard, do you think i ran a
campaign where white supremacists have a platform? are you going look me in the eye and tell me that? and for the clintons, it did, kellyanne. it did. >> and she did look her right in the eye. the reason there aren't pictures of this. this is just sound. there is not intended to be a scream fest. this is an academic exercise. but they were around a small table about 8 or 10 feet in one another. and when jennifer palmieri looked her in the eye she obviously believed what she was saying here. it is also important to point out the clinton campaign decided to come to this i'm told because they wanted to offer a defense. they wanted to defend her one last time. but they did offer a couple of things they could have done differently. particularly in michigan and wisconsin. robbie mook said yes i wish we
would have advertised more there and had more organizers on the ground there. he said on election night when he saw things going south in florida with white voters turning out in higher percentages in the rural parts of the state. he said boy i hope that is a phenomenon in only florida but soon he found it was not. >> and next donald trump naming another general to his cabinet after saying generals in this nation have been reduced to rubble. plus the trump bump on wall street. bump may be an understatement. stocks are at an all time high. unprecedented postelection surge. can it continue? and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight.
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tonight the secretary of defense ashton carter weighing in on trump's pick to replace him. carter saying he holds general james mattis in the highest regards. mats gets another big endorsement from robert gates who met with trump today at trump tower. >> i told him i thought his selection of secretary mattis for secretary of state was terrific. very supporting. >> trump and mattis disagree on some fundamental issues. jim sciutto is "outfront." >> we are going to appoint "mad
dog" mattis, as our secretary of defense. >> "mad dog," the nickname general james mattis earned, leading u.s. marines in the bloodest battle in the iraq war. is donald trump's pick for defense secretary. >> he's our best. they say he's the closest thing to general george patton that we have. and it's about time. >> madison is a seasoned combat commander with 44 years of service in the marine corps and key commands in both afghanistan and iraq, where he led troops in the 2003 invasion and later in the battle for fallujah. >> the u.s. military is quite capable of giving our enemies their longest day and their worst day if ordered to do. >> since retiring at centcom commander mattis has been critical of the obama administration. >> the next president is going
to inherit a mess. >> reporter: like trump mattis is hawkish on iran. >> the iranian regime in my mind is the single most enduring threat to stability and peace in the middle east. >> reporter: still trump and mattis disagree on several key foreign policy challenges. trump has praised russia. >> wouldn't it be nice if we actually did get along with russia? >> reporter: mattis sees russia and putin as a threat. >> putin goes to bed at night knowing he can break all the rules and the west will try to follow the rules. that is a very dangerous dichotomy. >> reporter: trump is in favor of bringing back the illegal practice of water boarding terrorists. mattis opposes water boarding. trump telling the "new york times" that during a meeting mattis told him it is in effective. >> i said what during of water boarding? he said i've never found it to be useful. he said i've always found give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and i do better with that than i do with
torcher. >> reporter: mattis is highly respected up and down the military ranks. a marine's marine and voracious reader. >> very dedicated. very focused and smartest man in the room. >> carried around with him throughout his career a library of around 10,000 books and he's ready most of them. >> reporter: now n 2005 he came under fire for remarks in a pale discussion which seemed to make like of killing people in combat. jim sciutto, cnn washington. >> reporter: and "outfront" tonight republican congressman, former navy seal, the author of american commander. he served with general mattis in iraq. and general mattis was leading the first marine division. so congressman you are a regular contact with general mattis. you have northeastern him for more than a decade. served him with frankly in one of the fiercest battles in modern times. trump proudly uses his name "mad
dog." why is general mattis called "mad dog"? >> well that is a term of endearment, quite frankly. and i know general mattis from fallujah. and this is the right guy at the right time. what he'll face is an uncertain world which we have to shore up relationships with our allies. he also will face a very bureaucratic department of defense. and the cut through the red tape is going to take a warrior. he understands the backbone of the military is the chief and the sergeant. and we have to make very calculated and slow decision to go to war. and if we do, let's make sure our troops in the front lines have the right equipment, right training, right rules of engagement to win effectively and decisively in the field of ballot. general mattis brings that to the table. >> let me ask you. you heard trump say repeatedly you think he's in favor of water boarding. he recently said general mattis feels differently.
what does general mattis do? he's obviously a military man. he follows a chain of command. if president trump were to order him to water board, would he do it? >> well as the commander in chief you also have a set of advisors around you. i think general mattis will be a terrific advisor and give the president the right advice at the right time. >> so you don't think that order will come. >> well if you had a decision of whether water boarding and the city of new york city was in jeopardy and you knew an individual had information that would save the city, i think -- certainly i would. i would use any means available to save new york. but those decisions are yet to be unfolded. i think general mattis gave the correct response, in his experience he hasn't seen it used effectively. we've heard reports of water boarding being used 200 plus
times. that clearly is not effective. we need a leader and a policy behind it, a warrior that doesn't want to go to war but if he's tasked to go to war we're going to go war to win. >> here is what he said last night congressman and what he said repeatedly while running for the white house. here is donald trump. >> i love the generals. i know more about isis than the generals do. believe me. >> they don't much because they are not winning. >> i mean, this is a totally stunning change, right? do you think the president elect truly respects mattis and the other generals in this country? >> well he respects general mattis enough to name him to the secretary defensof defense. and he knows isis, he knows the problem set and he also knows iran continues to be the number one sponsor of terrorism.
and in the middle east we need a policy so the military can support a known policy. but when we're rudderless in policy and don't have any idea what do with a relationship in persia and relationship with russia and aircraft flying the same air space and that is a reese pea f recipe for disaster. lot of problems, i think general mattis is the answer. >> congressman, i want to ask one question before woe go here on the breaking news tonight. donald trump on a phone call with the president of taiwan. something no u.s. president has done in 37 years. democratic senator murrphy sayig this is how wars start. multiple members of the george w. bush's foreign policy team saying this is a major breech and should not have happened. a major mistake. what do you say? >> well yonl this will lead to war. and certainly china has been aggressive in the south pacific,
building islands and fortifying them. i would not have made that call. but the president has clearly a different agenda. i don't think it will result to war. but what i do think that china itself has been enormously aggressive too. in the south china sea's example they said they wouldn't arm islands. they are making islands and arming them. and to date we've not had a policy pushing bang back on chinese or pushing back on russia. and this is another example why we need a warrior in the department of defense to shore up relationships with our allies and when we make a red line we need to make sure we hold it. >> thank you. next, donald trump trying to stop recounts in several states with razor thin margins of victory. his numbers in pennsylvania show his lead dwindling tonight. and trump picking a billionaire to head the microsoft cloud helps us
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nearly 5 million votes in the state. this is when there is a very thin margin of victory of 10,000 votes. the recount could start as early as tuesday. wisconsin court also blocking a bid there. and trump's lead this is shrinking in pennsylvania where his lawyers are filed suit as well. sunland surfati is "outfront" in trump tower. these are razor thin margins and could change things. it seems the trump campaign is taking the recounts seriously. >> yes. certainly erin they don't want anything that questions the legitimacy of donald trump's win, even if slightly out there. so they are making efforts to make sure that these -- to try to make sure these recounts don't go on. we've already seen them, donald trump himself, members of his transition team really blast jill stein's effort in these three states.
and specifically today the trump team of lawyers filing a motion in a court of appeals court in michigan basically to expedite the process. we have that court document and basically asked for this pushed very quickly to the michigan supreme court of appeals where it is their hope that this will be killed essentially ending the recount in michigan. >> the michigan attorney general siding with trump. >> reporter: right. the attorney general earlier in the day in essence did the same thing the trump team did later in the day, filing this motion in the court af of appeals saying this needs to be pushed to the supreme court. and but a refulz to accept that state-verified result poses an expensive and risky threat to hard-working taxpayers and abuses the intent of the michigan law. and jill stein firing back
really at both this morning but specifically to the attorney general saying that she believes this is a politically motivated attempt by the attorney general to side with donald trump. >> sunland, thank you. >> i want to go straight to jeffrey toobin, author of "too close to call" when people hear numbers like 500 votes cast in michigan and a 10,000 vote margin. that seems to people so close that it could go either way. >> and it --. you refer to razor thin. it is a razor thin margin from a political perspective. but from a recount perspective it is really not that close. >> you never recount and change 10,000 votes. >> you never change -- >> how many would change? >> 500 tops. florida, 2,000. the margin there was just over 500 votes. that is a state where a recount was really justified and really could have changed the results.
here you can talk 10,000, 12,000, 50,000 votes. it never works. and there you see on the screen. the margins all close in terms of an election result. but not for a recount. >> so razor thin politically but mathematically -- >> absolutely. absolutely not. >> jill stein has called herself an underdog. she's gone out and raised the money to these recounts is she really the david to trump's goliath? >> no he's a griftoner. exploiting the grief on the left to gain money for the campaign. and she's acting like hillary clinton's advocate here when her votes may have cost her the presidency. and what's even stranger, is why the trump campaign or people affiliated with the trump campaign aren't just saying go
ahead? count all the votes you one. >> why are they fighting? >> i think it is just the trump way. which is you fight when people defy you. and if the trump campaign succeeds in stopping any of these recounts, they are going to count the seeds -- >> it is going embolden people to say the election was stolen. >> if he said look count all the vote, go ahead. if he said i'm completely confident, he's going to wind up the winner anyway. then there would be no argument. but the trump brand is aggression and aggression it will be in the court. >> jeffrey toobin, thank you very much. interesting as he says. razor thin politically. not so mathematically. not going change with a recount. next stock-setting records. record after record. trump is touts and proud of it. will the bull market last? and new questions about one of trump's top cabinet picks. trip o the grocery store anything but simple. so i had an important conversation with my dermatologist about humira.
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celebrating a nine year low for the country's unemployment rate. down to 4.6%, the lowest since 2007 which of course was at the peak. jobs added in november 178,000. as far as what this means for markets there lease been a trump effect, no question about that. fourth straight week of gains after a series of record highs. "outfront" now paul hicky. this is pretty incredible. donald trump is proud of this. everyone said -- you know, mark cuban came on the show and said stocks are going to fall 20%. and we'll see what happens in the future but so far that's been dead correct me if i'm wrong. >> the market reaction has been great to trump's election. it is second -- third best, behind only ragen and nixon. really a big deal here.
>> in the middle of the night people were, when the shocking results came in market sold off around the world. >> it was so short-term. >> and it wasn't done in the united states. it was done by traders over seas and once u.s. traders started it went occupy. >> people came in and started buying. a flood of retail money. and i think there is just, you know, you tend to measure the market on fundamentals or technicals, which is the chart patterns. but the often overlooked aspect is sentiment. and the sentiment here is what's clearly driving this market and it is relief that regulation is going to be rolled back. there is going to be tax relief and infrastructure spending in the market. so there is a lot of optimism here. but, you know, again, no -- nothing -- this is sloo like the honeymoon phase. but nothing goes up forever.
>> one other thing you point out is they have honeymoon and then sort of from now, from early december until inauguration day the markets went down. >> yeah. >> do you have that fear for trump? >> well i think what you would see is we have come so far so fast. what are extremely overbought levels in the market as of last week. so you could see a pullback here. but the long-term implications for the market i think are going to be positive. how much of what this optimism comes through and actually gets legislated is another question. overall the s&p is up about 4%. that is not a huge move in a grand scheme. >> when you use the world retail money what that means is regular people. regular people putting in small amounts of money. if you talk about this election as elites thinking one thing and regular americans thinking another it is regular -- >> and we've a bull market for seven years right now. but individual investors mostly
sat out most of this run and sitting on the side lines and the day after the election comes in you saw a flood of money coming in. and the whole forgotten man ideal trump appealed to was the forgotten investor. individual investors were not in the market. >> earlier this week, wilbur ross called out the recession saying they are dead wrong. he said i see record breaking prices. pretty soon next year you are going to see real run up in the economy. this is going to effect the economy. jobs. not just today. but quality jobs. jobs that pay more. is he right? >> i think so. let's not forget what we've wean in the last seven years. it's been a great market but we're see wag can be real movement in washington. the people trump is appointing are pragmatists and willing to get things done. on both sides. and in washington on both sideways we haven'tene any interesting in getting things together. i they are wire going to get things done and that is going
grease the gears of the economy and ultimately be a positive for equity prices. >> thank you very much. paul hickey. >> "outfront" next a controversial trump cabinet pick. we're going break down her record, as a billionaire. when you have a cold, you just want powerful relief. only new alka-seltzer plus free of artificial dyes and preservatives liquid gels delivers the powerful cold symptom relief you need without the unnecessary additives you don't. store manager: clean up, aisle 4. alka-seltzer plus liquid gels. the market.redict
tonight new questions about the record of one of donald trump's top cabinet picks. the president elect tapping betts devos for education secretary. could it mean the end of education in america? >> i may cut department of education. >> and if he does betsy devos would be the right foreign make that happen according to the head of her advocacy group. >> he's not in this because
she's looking for a condo for eight years in washington. mrs. devos and the president elect both agree we should be reducing the footprint of the federal government. >> she's a controversial figure here in michigan. advocate of school choice, often called an architect of michigan's school system. and she has many creditics. >> when i hear her name i think about choice without quality. >> devos's husband is the air to the amway fortune. her family has donated millions to political kah causes and even starting its own lobbying group, mostly to promote her own educational ideas. more school choice. less regulation and unlimited number of for profit charter schools. >> i would be really concerned if michigan was the role map for the country. i actually think we should be looking at michigan and sayings this is what we should not do. >> nearly half of charter schools are ranked in the bottom quarter statewide.
20 percent were given a d or f grade. and there is no rule about where charter schools should be placed. so kids like 11-year-old judis shelton often end up going to schools far from home. >> it is somebody else's neighborhood that i'm traveling to while passing three or four other schools and six ore seven closed schools to get to his school in the neighborhood i don't live in. >> in your opinion has choice worked in michigan? >> choice has not worked. it is a joke. especially here in detroit. what we don't have is quality choice in our neighborhoods. >> even the popular --. ranked in the bottom third for performance in the state, according to the state department of education. but devos supporters say many places in michigan have long struggled with education and the charter schools have helped.
>> i think there's been an actual drummed up multi year effort by the critics in charters in choice. mainly the democratic party and teachers unions to discredit charters. >> he says decades of betsy devos advocating for students will help make changes at the national level. >> we're going to be doing things differently than we've done in the past and i would say to people hold on to your seats. >> reporter: we tried to talk to betsy devos ourselves. we were not successful. but i talked to many people who said she cares kids and democrats who said they are for charters in michigan. but people on both sides of the political aisle say the current system here t free market for schools is not working for children. >> thank you very much. and thanks to all of you for joining us. have a good weekend. don't forget you can watch "outfront" any time anywhere on cnn go. we appreciate your team.
ac 360 begins right now. good evening, thanks for joining us. we begin with breaking news. even before taking office the president elect of the united states of america has in one phone call potentially changed more than three decades of u.s. diplomatic practice. today donald trump spoke on the phone with president of taiwan a highly unusual move that could have tremendous implications for u.s. diplomacy. trump tweeted a short time ago the president of taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. thank you. this call between president elect trump today and taiwan's president, why is it such a big deal? i think to a lot of people listening tonight they will think well, okay. so
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