voice. you can hear a little bit of pit that's -- funny. >> satire is part of -- >> democracy. >> -- certainly part of democracy or at least it used to be. but the president-elect has to get used to it. this comes with the job. time for the news. room with carol costello the woman in that room. she is the embodiment of news. >> i couldn't have said it better smiefl. you guys have a great day. "newsroom" starts now. and good morning, i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. any moment now we'll go live to a news conference in oakland, california. officials there will update us on that horrific fire that raced through a converted warehouse during an electronic music show. at least 33 people died, but only a handful of bodies have been identified. they include 32-year-old donna kellogg, and 35-year-old travis

hough. and just a few minutes ago received this photo of another victim 23-year-old cash askew. he was in a band that released its debut album just last year. investigators expect the death toll to climb as they painstakingly sift through the charred runs of thifs building. a criminal investigation is under way. stephanie elam live in oakland with more. good morning. >> the local fire chief telling me they had to sees operations around 10:00 p.m. local time for fear the building would collapse. they're working to shore up the building. there's something they plan to do today to continue the recovery efforts. officials launching a criminal investigation team and an arson task force to inspect the deadly fire that engulfed this warehouse hosting a party over the weekend. >> it doesn't seem like a fire that's survivable.

so the reality i think for all of us is beginning to set in. >> reporter: of the confirmed dead, a teenager, and an oakland deputy's son. >> this tragedy has hit very close to home. >> reporter: but with less than half of the two story warehouse searched, authorities fear the worst. >> we anticipate that the number of victims will rise. >> reporter: officials say firefighters with shovels are methodically removing debris, bucket by bucket. >> our first priority is the humane and compassionate removal of the victims of this tragedy. >> reporter: the warehouse, known as the ghost ship, was an illegal residence home to some artists. now, currently under investigation for city code violations, for hazardous trash and debris and an illegal interior building structure. friday night's electronic dance party, one of many held in the space, operating without a permit when the building quickly erupted in flames. >> broke my ankle. i need you to pull me out. >> reporter: one survivor an artist who used the space describes the horrifying moment

he had to leave his friend behind. >> it was just like pull him out, and the fire was just getting too hot, and the smoke was just getting too bad and i had to -- i had to -- i had to leave him there. >> horrifying story, so now we have a live presser right now where they're updating us on the proceedings overnight. >> -- everyone has watched, or has information about what has transpired since last friday. last friday, december 2nd, at about 11:32 p.m. a fire broke out in the 1300 block of 31st avenue here in oakland. last evening, the victim loss was 33. that's 33 families who have lost a loved one. that's 33 of our loved ones who, here in the city of oakland, we

have lost as a community. this morning we'd like to update you regarding additional information regarding our losses. not only to families but to our community. we have deputy sheriff who is going to provide you additional information regarding victims, loss, and families that vt been notified. we also have battalion chief braden who will be able to update you regarding the work that the fire department has done, along with other agencies who have been assisting. i'd like to turn it over to deputy modest. thank you. >> good morning, my name is t-y-a m-o-d-e-s-t, spokes american for the alameda county sheriff's office. since our last update we have located and recovered the 36

victims. yes, since our last update we have located and recovered 36 victims. of the 36, 11 have been positively identified. and their family members have been appropriately notified. that number is inclusive of the eight that were -- the number eight that was given last night. at this time we won't be updating this morning the list of names. the located and identified vick tips. we are giving the family members an opportunity to update other family members, to notify them, and give them an opportunity to grieve together before we release those additional names. >> hi, good morning, once again, can you hear me? the fire department last night at approximately 10:00 was asked

by atf, our local investigators, to stop our recovery work in the back of the building based on the fact that we now feel very strongly that we have the section of the building that was the area of origin of where the fire started. the investigators will be here in just a few hours to start building out their team, and really getting deeper into that area of the building. again it's the back of the building. so when we enter and go straight back, the back wall, center of the building, we've got a square footage area that has been quarantined off for additional investigation. just after midnight, we had some crews doing some surveilling, and reconnaissance on the next door roof, and noticed a slight lean in the parapit on the "a" side of the building, the front of the warehouse, at the very top of the exterior wall. we have about a three inch lean

going into the center of the building. for us firefighters working under a wobbly, potentially collapsing, exterior wall is extremely dangerous. we will not put our firefighters in danger at this point, and we will not put alameda county sheriff in that precarious situation with us. so we did a full work stoppage at approximately 12:18 last night, and have not been continuing with body recovery since. all of the structural engineers, and contract workers will be here at approximately 8:00 a.m. to develop a game plan. we hope that we'll be back in the building between 12:00 and 2:00 today to continue the recovery effort. >> we know you'll have some questions so we'll start over here and work our way to the left. >> can you describe what a parapit is?

>> so at the top of the exdoor yore building if you imagine where the roof meets the call, there's about a five foot unreinforced section of the exterior wall. it's leaning in three inches. it should be straight. we're concerned that that unreinforced area potentially could collapse. >> -- the search, is it 70%, or where are we at or is it still 40%? >> absolutely. at this point, we are using the number 70% as the area of the building that we had searched, and efficiently and effectively done recovery on. again the small area in the back, the area of origin, and the front area based on the safety concern, has not been searched yet. >> so do you believe that there's still more victims, and also are you confident of finding a cause for the fire? >> we're no closing to finding a

cause and we absolutely believe that the number of fire fatalities will increase. >> so when 70%, you get to 100%, will you then recently say there are no more -- and will more aftermath to go through the fast tl i to say for sure? you get to 100 today or tomorrow will the search be over at that point? >> can you speak up a little bit louder? >> when you get to 100%, once it's done at that point, will the search for remains be over at that point or are they going to have to sift through the remains of the building looking for more? will it be completely done at 100%, for bodies? >> once the search is completed, the primary focus has been on the location and recovery. that's what we've been talking about for the last three days. we're actually on day four. we started last friday, december 2nd. so we're really on our fourth

day. primary focus to answer your question, sir, has always been on the search and recovery. once that has been completed, then we'll start having the conversation of shifting this investigation to whichever direction is appropriate. right now it's a little bit too early. again battalion chief said atf has been here. they need to do investigative work to determine which direction this investigation is going to go. very good question, we'll certainly keep everybody informed. again, we have right now 36 families, not only grieving for their lost ones but also they want to have answers. we as a city collectively are working to find those answers. we want to provide answers not only for the family but for our community. and also what can we learn from this to, in our attempts to prevent this happening again, if there are lessons learned, absolutely. go ahead. >> i'm wondering -- i know you've been methodical and slow

but you've also got rain coming. can you tell us how they're grappling to balance those two factors? >> right. so we anticipate based on the weather reports that rain will start on wednesday, and increase by friday. the fire department feels very reticent in getting in too quickly today. obviously, the natural desire for firefighters, and anyone in public service is to quickly get in, mitigate a situation, mitigate an emergency, and effect rescue. in this case recovery. we will not be going faster to get ahead of the rain. so we're going to be just as comprehensive, just as methodical, and just as analytical to make sure that we are successful in a full recovery in the next few days. >> battalion chief, i know you're still going through the building. do we know where the bulk of the victims were found? were they near the door? meaning almost out of the

building? or are they all over the warehouse? >> so, as we've been saying for the last few days, the majority over the last two days, since i've been on scene, were in the center of the building. >> how [ inaudible ]. >> this is a question for you, johnna, we know there's been a lot of talk about how inspectors had not been able to gain access to the building. but we know police had been in that building at some point, even this year. would they have been required, if they saw something in there, to let the city know that, looks like people are living in here, maybe you guys can go check that. what would be the policy in that sort of case? >> that's a very good question. and we anticipate a lot of those answers to come in the next days, next weeks -- and i'm going to answer your question. >> the policy -- >> so any time law enforcement such as the oakland police department, first responders, go

in to any situation, if they should notice any type of violations, if they should notice any criminal activity, we record it, we document it, we forward it. i also want to share with you the oakland police department was one of the first law enforcement agencies in the country to have body cameras so a lot of activity we do is often recorded. so let's say we came to this location, and there were some concerns, whether it's criminally, a criminal concern, or whether it's a violation. we may have captured that on our own body-worn camera footage. again this is a very large, not only incident, but a tragedy. and so we immediately, working with other city services, klektively, everyone has been working through the weekend, and we have a lot of answers to provide the families, and to provide to our community. >> and as we're looking at those answers we're looking at

everything from our body-worn camera footage, how many calls we at the oakland police department have gone to, what types of calls, documentation when working with our planning and building department, with our alameda county district attorney. so we have a lot of moving parts to this, and we'll certainly find answers to all of these questions. we do request patience, time, we want to do a very thorough investigation, whichever direction that takes us. whether it's criminal or remains right now as an investigation. we want to be factual with our information. and yes, you have a question. >> yes, can you tell us more about the potential points of origin that is being investigated by the atf? >> i think her question was, more information about the potential point of origin? is that correct? >> yes. >> based on the significant charring and damage in the building, we've got some areas

where the steel is actually twisted, and wrapped in the back of the building. we can see fire spread. atf and our local investigators feel very strongly that they have identified the section of the building that is the area of origin. >> is it some sort of kitchen or anything that we know of that could give us a clue? >> it appears to be the back of the building where we imagine the artist's collective was on the first floor and potentially during the concert the dance floor was just above. >> any idea what kind of fire could make the steel do that? does it have to burn at an especially high temperature? >> hot. >> is it an electrical fire -- >> extremely hot fire. >> can an electrical fire cause that? >> an extremely hot fire. no way of telling the cause. >> so do you -- you don't have any -- victim yet? and also just to clarify, you

had stopped -- >> that's correct. a couple of folks are having a hard time hearing your question. yes, work stoppage, absolutely concern for the structure and the safety of the workers that are going in there. and additionally, i know we want to get in to a lot of the questions about cause of fire, where it started, i think that the fire department is doing an excellent job of facilitating a lot of complicated situations. but we also want to talk with atf, and have them have their opportunity come in and do a full inspection where we can provide you more information. one last -- i'm going to take one last question. sir, go ahead. >> -- fire officials here, you just said something, did you indicate that this area that they're looking at that theen orren would it be on the first floor more likely than the second floor? >> it's hard to determine based

on the fact that we have fire damage all the way through to the roof on the back wall, in the rafters, on the steel beams, and until we have an absolute, i don't even want to speculate on whether it was the first or second floor. [ inaudible ] no. >> so again we'll certainly provide more information, but we would like to really have atf on board, and have that opportunity to determine causes, areas, things like that. we're going to conclude this portion of our media briefing. throughout the day we will continue to provide information to you. we'll send out a media availability for the next time and location. right now, because of the work stoppage, because we have other crews that will be coming back and joining us, it's very difficult for us to set that time. we want to come back to you with

more information, again, as the alameda county sheriff's office has stated, we'll provide names of the lost loved ones later today. we'll make sure that you do have that information. thank you very much for your patience. >> all right. so we're going to step away from oakland. as you heard, 36 people now confirmed dead inside that warehouse fire. and the fire department had to stop working because the building is so unstable. you know, that, that oakland fire bears haunting similarities to the 2003 night club disaster in warwick, rhode island. a massive fire during a rock concert there ignited a fire that killed 100 people and just like in oakland investigators soon focused on overcrowding, too few exits and a lack of sprinklers. john varlick is an attorney who represented victims of the rhode island tragedy. he also wrote killer show the station night club fire america's deadliest rock concert. welcome, sir. >> good morning. >> could you hear that news

conference from oakland? >> yes, i did. i did. >> so i -- i -- i think what struck me is you could hear the frustration in the fire chief's voice that they had to stop looking for the bodies of victims inside that warehouse because the building was so unstable. this -- this sort of tragedy has an effect on the psychry of everyone involved, right? >> it really does. particularly in a state as small as rhode island where there are two degrees of separation, it -- there was a ripple effect. and right now, the families in oakland are going through the same terrible waiting and anxious period for recovery and identification that the families did here in rhode island. >> we understand a criminal investigation has been opened. what specifically are they looking for? >> as with any fire and mass disaster of this type, one has to look at whether fire codes were willfully violated. whether things were overlooked

by inspectors. it usually takes more than ordinary negligence to give rise to criminal charges. but, in cases as in rhode island, where there was stunning negligence, it gave rise to criminal manslaughter charges. >> okay. so, so the fire in oakland we understand a city building inspector just visited the property on november 17th. not so long ago. there have been persistent complaints about this property. so, what does -- what does that tell you about this ensuing tragedy? >> well, i can't speculate about the specifics, as your press conference noted, the particular source and origin of the fire has not been identified as yet. but the same factors of negligence and grief that held forth in rhode island appear to contribute here. >> there are a number of complicating factors to this. the building is owned by one person. but it's managed by another person. we understand some people might

have been living inside that building illegally. so who ultimately is responsible for things like, you know, making sure there's enough exits, proper stairways to escape a fire like this and fire sprinklers installed in the building? >> i think in this case, responsibility could lie both with the ultimate owner of the building, and with any master tenants. it has been reported that there were two master tenants who subleased to various artists for studios. it's also been reported that those studios were used for illegal residences. and of course the party was not permitted, as well. so anyone who had a hand in permitting those illegally activities potentially has criminal and certainly civil exposure. >> but i want to go back out to oakland and bring in stephanie elam. have we heard at all from the person who managed this warehouse this building? >> no. we have not heard from them. we -- we know about the fact that they've been cited.

but the fact that this building was allotted as a warehouse. but yet to actually hear, we've reached out to them but we have yet to hear back from them at this point. >> what about the people who owned the building? do they live in oakland? >> that i don't know yet, either. i think that's a big question that a lot people have it seems very evident to a lot of people that people were living inside this building and it was structured as a warehouse. that is what people are trying to find out. even in the presser they're staying away from actually calling that but saying that they're investigating this fully to get more information on why there could have been as one of our guests said on the air today, that there were some 25 people that were actually residing in there and also using that as a creative space. >> so john the rhode island case dragd on for three or four years. we might not have answers in what caused this horrible tragedy in oakland for many years. or at least some sort of -- >> that's correct carol.

i think even though you may not have specifics, though, we have the once again general fooem theme of running an operation on the cheap. ruining a business on the cheap and trying to maximize profits at the expense of safety. >> all right i have to leave it there. thanks to both of you. i'll be right back. oon as i beci changed as a person, drastically. ♪ i tried hard to quit smoking. ♪ but when we brought our daughter home that was it. ♪ now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. can you say thanks nicoderm cq? every great why needs a great how.

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here we go again. so trump makes another big hire tapping ben carson for housing secretary. at the same time the secretary of state search expands. it now includes the former presidential candidate jon huntsman. huntsman also happens to be a former ambassador to trump's latest twitter target china. facing leet from breaking with decades of international protocol. more now from cnn's jessica schneider outside the trump tower. good morning. >> good morning, carol. the uncertainty continues to

mount as to donald trump's stance on china especially after his tweet storm this weekend and the phone call to taiwan on friday. in terms of the tweet storm, donald trump criticized china for what he says manipulation of its currency, also criticizing military action in the south china sea. when it comes to china the foreign minister there says it refuses to speculate on donald trump's actions or whether or not this could be a break in policy. the president-elect lashing out at china. only two days after his unprecedented phone call with the leader of taiwan. donald trump accusing china of keeping its currency artificially low. monetary experts say it's fairly valued. and decrying their military presence in the south china sea. trump stepping up some of the tough talk from the campaign trail. >> they've taken our money and our jobs. our manufacturing -- they've taken everything. china is responsible for nearly half of our entire trade deficit. >> but the timing of his tweets

indicate those campaign promises could potentially become policy. over the weekend, china launching a formal complaint about trump cease call with taiwan's president. >> that was nothing more than taking a courtesy call and congratulations. >> but "the washington post" reports that the call had been planned for weeks. experts warn the call carried major diplomatic risks citing the u.s.' one-china policy which considers taiwan to be a part of china. this is the first known communication between the u.s. and taiwan since 1979. trump also taking to twitter this weekend to threaten any business that leaves our country. warning of a whopping 35% tax on products shipped back into the country as, quote, retribution. trump tweeting he would keep jobs in the country by lowering taxes for companies and slashing regulations. all this playing out as the president-elect is widening his list of contenders to be secretary of state. a process starting to look more like a reality show.

>> other candidates for secretary of state and other cabinet positions. >> reporter: former republican governor of utah jon huntsman, president barack obama's first ambassador to china, now in the running. and disgraced former general david petraeus making a public case for the top post. >> five years ago i made a serious mistake. i acknowledged it. i apologized for it. >> arguing that his guilty plea for revealing classified information to his former mistress should not disqualify him from serving as secretary of state. >> i paid a very heavy price for it. and i've learned from it. >> so while the secretary of state intrigue continues the issue of ballot recounts also continues to bubble up. in fact, green party candidate jill stein will be outside trump tower today at 10:00 a.m., holding what she is calling a recount rally. she is moving for recounts in three different states, where donald trump won by a narrow margin, wisconsin, pennsylvania and michigan. in fact a federal judge ordering

that the michigan recount will begin at noon today. jill stein also filed this morning for a recount at the federal level in the state of pennsylvania. carol? >> all right. jessica schneider reporting live for us this morning. let's talk about this. with me now julian zelizer, and cnn global affairs analyst david rhodes a national security investigations editor for reuters. so i'm just going to step back and i'm going to tell you what donald trump supporters think about the whole china/taiwan thing. they think america's been wimpy. they want someone to take a strong stance and see donald trump tweeting out these things about china as taking a strong stance. what's wrong with that? >> there's nothing wrong with it politically. it's very popular with his base. the question is what does it lead to? a military confrontation with china in the south china sea? could it lead to a trade war with china and i'll throw out a third thing, north korea. north korea's getting very close to have a nuclear weapon it

could place on a missile. china is our leverage to stop north korea from doing that. >> but, but isn't it possible, china's also building military installations in the south china sea, right? it's becoming more and more aggressive militarily. the united states is worried about that. cheap steel on states like ohio cheap chinese steel and that makes the manufacturing jobs go away in the rust belt of america. so, when you consider those things, which are more important to people's lives, frankly, in the short-term, right? then, then, again, donald trump's supporters would say, go for it, donald. >> right. well there's a lot of agreement that there are problems with china. but i think that two issues. one is how is he conducting this kind of diplomacy. twitter is not subtle nor are the statements he makes. that can have dangerous consequences. and two, i think the consequences of what he is doing might not make things better. if we enter into a trade war with china, there might be fewer jobs here for the united states,

and if we are in a war that requires troops, that might not be very popular with trump's supporters either. so, these have to be thought through very cautiously before these kind of statements are made. >> okay, so, so, the one thing that's a little well it's a lot confusing to me if donald trump really wanted to demonstrate strength, why, why not own it because trump tweeted out that taiwan called him. but "the washington post" is reporting that this call between taiwan and the trump transition team, was, was long in the works. so why not own it if you want to like be strong? >> i think he did in the last round of tweets. but it is a bit confusing. you know, i think it was planned. i think it was intentional. i think people advising him are very hard-line on china and they supported this call. to his credit maybe he's being a businessman and starting out with a really tough negotiating position at the beginning of his administration and he'll back down. again, his base doesn't want him to back down. he's -- he's -- on so many other

issues just like with china he's promising to get tough. but also deliver jobs in the u.s. can you do those two things at the same time. >> you mention these ensuing tweets. i want to put them up on the screen for our viewers in case you missed them. so trump tweeted out quote interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but i should not expect a congratulatory call and then he went after china later quote did china ask us if it was okay to to devalue our currency making it hard for our companies to compete, heavy tax our products, going into their country, the u.s. doesn't tack them, or military complex in the middle of the south china sea? i don't think so. so, he is tweeting tough. of course. is china's really unnerved by this? >> well, it's not -- i mean it's not clear initially they're showing some restraint. and this might be a consequence of understanding who the president-elect is. having doubts about him and saying we're not going to respond initially.

but at some point, this will cause a reaction from china. and that's inevitable. and that's why at this point i think people are watching to see what did his advisers say that they keep pushing him in this direction or do they somehow convince him you need to stop and we can handle a strategy in a different way? in a more deliberate way if we actually want to change relations, and policies toward china. >> i just want to go back to a question i should have asked you at the beginning because i don't think most americans understand why it's a big deal that donald trump talked to the leader of taiwan. >> it was the first formal communication and public communication between the u.s. government and a chinese government since 1979. you know, the potential u.s. policies ignore taiwan and there's been very heavy criticism from the chinese public at their own leaders, at their government, for not pushing back harder against trump. so you've got a nationalist force, the nationalist, you know, drive in china itself to stand up to the u.s. to be outraged about this communication with taiwan, if, you know, trump plays on

national -- >> just to be a little more clear. china consider's taiwan a rogue nation. it considers taiwan part of china. and the united states sort of like accepts that. or at least doesn't mention that taiwan might really truly be a separate -- >> well we followed this policy since president jimmy carter agreement, the one-china policy. we do have relations with taiwan. as the president-elect has pointed out. we sell arms, but we have maintained this diplomatic structure. so this is a big break. he knows this. and i think his advisers know this. i think "the washington post" is suggesting at least from some advisers, this was an intentional push. whether he's fully aware of the ramifications, we don't know. >> julian zell czar, david thanks so much. a major win for pipeline protesters. but will it be short lived? e in. and i know a thing or two about trading. so i trade with e*trade, where true traders trade on a trademarked trade platform that has all the...

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after weeks of police clashes and brutal winter weather the standing rock sioux and thousands of their supporters are celebrating. ♪ drums and chanting and tears of joy as the army corps of engineers decide it will reroute the dakota access pipeline. but the celebrations could be short-lived. there are fears the decision could be reversed by the trump administration. cnn's sara sidner live in north dakota with more. good morning, sara. >> good morning, carol. yeah, i mean there were -- there were crying people in the crowd. there were people drumming and cheering and chanting and feeling so hopeful. feeling like their voices were finally heard, especially the members of the standing rock sioux and the sioux nation. or the oceti sakowin as they're known in their own language. they felt like this was finally a victory in a battle that has

gone on for months now even through these frigid temperatures and a blizzard. they have been fighting to stop this pipeline from going under the missouri river just about a mile and a half up that way, worried that one day the pipe will leak and will poison the water that they use, and that millions of other americans downstream use. so here's the reaction when they heard the army corps of engineers had decided not to give a permit to allow that to happen, which essentially made the pipeline reroute. >> a new day is dawning for our people. we are waking up, not just indigenous people, but american citizens are starting to think twice, starting to be cognizant of their constitutional rights, their civil rights, and their human rights. and we need that right now, more than ever, as we face a new presidency. we need to make sure that president-elect trump can override this decision here

today when he takes office. >> that was chase iron eyes who has also run for congress. and he is not the only voice saying that there's a lot of people here celebrating but knowing that this could change. and it has changed. because we have heard now, from the company that owns the pipeline, energy transfer partners, and here's how they responded to the army corps of engineers' latest move not to give them a permit, basically making them reroute this pipeline. they said, quote, we are fully committed to ensuring that this vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting. nothing, this administration has done today, changes that in any way. so at this point in time, that now brings everything back to a head. brings the flashpoint back to where it was before the army corps decision because now basically what they're saying is, we're going forward with

this. and the worry is, here, that the donald trump administration once in office, will allow that to happen. >> sara sidner reporting live from north dakota this morning. still to come, an armed man opens fire in a d.c. pizzeria. his motivation? well it came from fake news. we'll talk about that next. the first survivor of alzheimer's disease is out there. and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you.

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fake news stories do have consequences, potentially deadly consequences. police say 28-year-old edgar madison welch stormed into the restaurant in d.c. armed with a shotgun. he told the cops he wanted to investigate, quote, pizza-gate a totally bogus online conspiracy theory spread by, among others, our new missional security adviser's son michael flynn jr. cnn's joe johns is following this from northwest washington. good morning. >> good morning, carol. this is the restaurant behind me

and police do say 28-year-old edgar madison welch walked into this restaurant holding a rifle. he apparently fired it. no one was injured. police arrested him. he was charged with assault with a deadly weapon. when they sat down and talked to him, he said he was here to self-investigate pizza-gate which police themselves call an online fictitious conspiracy theory. so, he's taken into custody. this is a problem, apparently, that this restaurant has been dealing with for quite awhile. several weeks, in fact, there have been death threats against people who worked for the restaurant, we're told. now the owner has put out a statement, and he said, in part, what happened demonstrates from promoting false conspiracy theories comes with consequences. he also wrote essentially that they're not going to be put out of business. we're heartened by the support and loyalty of our customers and our community. they're our life blood and we'll continue to serve them joyfully,

he says, for decades to come. still, despite the fact that sunlight has now been placed on this issue, very the fact of the matter is it's still not clear how long it's going to take before it's put to rest. carol, back to you. >> joe johns reporting live from northwest washington. with me to talk about this is cnn senior media correspondent and anchor of "reliable sources" brian stelter and dino badalla from sirius xm radio. welcome to both of you. so this bogus story, in short, hillary clinton and john podesta, her campaign aide, were supposedly involved in running a child sex ring. there is zero evidence of this. totally, totally bogus. yet michael flynn jr., the new security adviser's son, tweeted this out sunday after this incident went down. quote, until pizza-gate proven to be false it will remain a story. the left seems to forget podesta

e-mails and the many coincidences tied to it. again, d.c. police say pizza-gate is completely fictitious but frin's tweet has been retweeted 1100 times as of 7:00 this morning. >> dangerous territory to think that until you can completely disprove something that you assume it's true. this is the kind of theory that i was starting to roll my eyes and laugh when you were describing it. it's so ludicrous, it's one of these anti-clinton conspiracy theories during the election that was so ridiculous i tried not to pay attention to it but that's part of the problem. these even ridiculous theories are serious and this one individual from north carolina apparently felt compelled to drive to washington, d.c. to investigate it, allegedly walk into the restaurant with a gun as a result. thankfully no one was -- >> fired off a shot, by the way. >> this could have ended up very different differently. this is an example of fake news having real consequences and causing real violence. >> i know it was general flynn's

son sending out that tweet but general flynn himself who is going to be our new national security adviser tweeted this on november 2nd. quote, you decide. nypd blows whistle on new hillary e-mails, money laundering, sex crimes with children, et cetera, must read. again, a totally bogus tweet, but the tweet is still on general flynn's feed and has been retweeted more than 9,000 times. >> we are living in a world where facts don't matter. it's very scary. the man online who did this, who went to investigate with a gun, i wonder if a muslim guy went to a pizza place with a gun to investigate how that would have went down. i think much worse. these guys, we used to have the expression you are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. now you have your own facts and you have people who retweet it and it gives it credibility. it is stunningly scary. >> general flynn is going to be the national security adviser. >> he is, and breitbart had something to do witnesh it, wrig

an article so steve bannon is involved, now in the administration. donald trump is the great purveyor of fake news. according to proritifact, he ha 175 statements which were made up. if you are misinforming people in this country and flynn and bannon doing it, it's unfortunate. you have good people misinformed and in this case, the man was radicalized online. >> radicalized is an interesting word. conspiracy theories, the swamps of the internet can cause people to embrace extreme wild views. because it's reinforcing online, self-reinforcing. you read all these articles and weird clues on twitter and facebook that make you think a preposterous idea like pizza-gate is true. >> it has wide-ranging repercussions. the owner, npr interviewed the owner, and he talked to npr months ago and described how

these fake news sites use children, real children, to spread the sick story of this clinton sex ring. listen. >> essentially, they would go into our social media accounts and they would take graphs on my instagram of my friends' or associates' children and post them around thousands and thousands of fake news sites and on reddit and youtube and use images of happily playing innocent children as proof of some kind of human trafficking scheme led by the clintons. >> okay. so that's sick. >> there's no words for this. there's a flipside to this. i read an article last week for the daily beast, documented the hate instances against people, hate crimes, women having their hijabs ripped off. i have tons of trump supporters telling me i'm lying, i'm making up these cases. i would send them local news stories with images and some of it maybe they are playing a game

but some of it's real. >> it's through the looking glass. i would say the vast majority of people don't get caught up in these crazy smears and ideas. to them and to their relatives and friends, refuse to be confused. refuse to be played and tricked by these conspiracy theories. i was glad i'm going to be in that neighborhood later this week so i can go buy a slice of pizza and support the local business. >> it's such an awesome restaurant. >> that's one of the other concerns. that business, others on the block have been affected by these threats. let's hope there can be a reaction the other direction, supporting these businesses. more broadly, for facebook, google, twitter, big media companies have to do more to rebut these lies because that's what we have to face. >> public officials must come out and say you know, this is just not true. >> absolutely. the issue with paul ryan refusing to denounce the claim three million illegal people voted, said i can't say if it's true or not, you are furthering

lies. the problem is if you are going to deny the real suffering of people like with hate crimes, it can lead to a very dark place in human history. we have seen it. people, please, use critical thinking. look at the source of the material sent from you. that's the problem. people give credibility to things that don't have credibility. my articles, all credible. some people's articles have no credibility. look at the source and double and triple check. i used to be a lawyer. i have critical thinking skills. >> leaders, public officials, individual users, media companies, big social media companies, there is really shared responsibility here. >> thank you so much, both of you. the next hour of "cnn newsroom" after a break. mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas.

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have identified where that fire broke out. it broke out in the back of the building. meantime, the death toll climbs. at least 36 people now confirmed dead. we are learning the names and ages of some of the victims. we'll have more on that in just a minute. right now let's take a look outside trump tower where former green party candidate jill stein is about to hold a rally and news conference. the stein camp still pushing for a recount in pennsylvania despite mounting costs. while pennsylvania hasn't gotten the go ahead, a district judge in michigan has ordered election officials to begin counting ballots later today. meantime, president-elect trump makes another big hire. tapping dr. ben carson for housing secretary. at the same time, the secretary of state search expands. now in the mix, former presidential candidate jon huntsman, who also happens to be a former ambassador. trump's latest twitter target, china. the president-elect now facing heat for unleashing an online tirade and breaking with decades of international protocol.