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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  February 10, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

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>> unless of course the show invites her and she accepts at the last minute. when it comes to president trump. >> living with this pig face. >> snake oil salesman. >> all eyes will be on "snl," thank you for joining us. anderson's next. a very good evening to you, i'm jim sciuto, filling in for anderson tonight on what is a very busy news friday night. at the end of the third full week of his presidency, donald trump has landed in florida aboard air force one, his travel ban still very much in the air. the breaking news tonight, after a loss in the ninth circuit court of appeals, and a tweet from the president saying, quote, see you in court. the donald trump administration may not in fact appeal the decision after all. at least not right away. that is according to a source familiar with the situation, the
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president himself meanwhile is still promising victory, while at the same time leaving the door open to just go back to the drawing board. here's what he said on air force one just a short time ago. >> the unfortunate part is it takes time to schedule it. we'll win that battle. but we also have a lot of other options including just writing another order. >> pamela brown joins me now with the latest. so pam, help clear this up about what the most likely next step of the -- he made it very clear that one of the options the administration is seriously considering is issuing this brand-new executive order with new security measures and he indicatesed that may be a better option because it could be more expedient than moving through the court system. listen to what he said. >> what are some of the changes you're going to make?
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>> in honor of the decision, we will perhaps do that, we will see, but on monday or tuesday. >> you talk about new security measures, is that separate from potentially writing a new -- >> we're going to have very, very strong vetting, i call it extreme vetting and we're going to have very, very strong security in our country, we're going to have people in our country that want to be here for good reasons. >> as the administration is figuring everything out, the federal judge in seattle has asked both sides to turn in their plans. >> so the obvious option is to reissue the order, amend the order, but he still could take this case to the supreme court? >> nothing has been ruled out according to the white house, but we're being told that is unlikely, though it could still happen, sources i have spoken to say the plan right now is not to immediately appeal to the supreme court, because there is a fear in the white house that it could lose again on a 4-4 split, meaning the ninth circuit
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court of appeals will -- a source close to the white house tells me that they would want the seat to be filled with nominee judge neil gorsuch, it's sort of like a rubics cube, there's a lot at play here they're trying to figure out. >> we're learning as well that you had a 3-0 decision, but it's possible that more judges, they call it on bonk, explain that, if you would. >> the full court taking up this issue, an on bonk, as you point out, but a majority of judges would have to agree, that is unlikely. that leaves the administration in a tough position because it has to decide whether it wants to move forward with an appeal
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or write an executive order. so this forces them to make a decision by next thursday. yet another twist in this legal drama concerning the travel ban. >> we're getting this sort of running civics and legal education. joining me is immigration services director, leon rodriguez. also harvard law professor allan dersowics. after the ruling came down from the nooirpt circuit judges, you called it, you said a whole new executive order was simply an option for the administration, is this what trump's listening to? is this the past he should follow? >> when i first proposed that, i propose posed oez -- he's being
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smart, he's understanding that he has many, many options. now there's a new option that just got presented. judge thomas who who's is chief judge and the administrator of the on bonk process, just responding on his own, asking to rehear the case on bonk, the government of the united states needs the approval of the solicitor general's office, and it's hard to understand how a court could take the case, when neither side wants to take the case. but the ninth circuit does this all the time. it's possible that on their own they may decide to bring 11 judges and reconsider the three-judge panel decision, and that would be a win-win for the trump administration, it wouldn't have to do anything, it would get a free appeal, if it loses, not its fault, if it win, hey, it has a victory. >> what's your reaction to the
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president's comments regarding the possibility of a new executive order? how would that look? and would it solve the problems that he has. >> i think you're director rodriguez -- >> apologies, turning to you, but let me go to professor foley first and then i'll go to director rodriguez. >> i think it could solve a lot of problems with trump's executive order, basically this would be a repeal and replace effort. he could go back to the drawing board, get it right this time, exclude the lawful permanent residence, probably also prospectively make the visa holders subject to the executive orders, which would essentially grand father those who had a visa already. that would mute out a lot of people that want to challenge the executive order, it would also give him the opportunity to put in that executive order, lay the foundation for the national security threat that he believes
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is posed by these seven countries, which would make the record clearer for any future court reviewing it. >> leon, you know how gaining citizenship works, if you were the president, what changes would you make to the original executive order to mairk it more likely to pass legal review? >> first of all, i would remind the president, that the procedure that is actually in place is very, very strong vetting, it relies on a multitude of intelligence databases, there are interviews by highly traineded officers and it's a process that's actually been working very well. so what i would tell him is to rely on the process that for decades has worked very well. and remember that one of this country's most honored traditions is that it has welcomed refugees in a very, very dire circumstances often.
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>> that's just rhetoric and it won't work, the administration is not going to accept the current situation, even the obama administration didn't accept the current situation, it named the seven countries. there will be a change and the change will involve these seven countries, and it may involve additional countries. if they can find a nonmuslim country that stimulates terrorism, they would obviously want to put that in there. but, no, they're going to keep a lot of the restrictions, particularly on people who have never come into the country. so the civil libertarians are not going to gets the whole loaf, the people who want the old process are not going to get their whole loaf. we're going to see some compromise and my hope is in the end we'll have something that secures the safety of all americans without compromising the security of anybody.
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>> according to the administration official not ruling out taking this to the supreme court, you heard pamela round reporting, it's very unlikely because they might face a 4-4 split there, that is unless they can get their nominee, judge joan lefkgorsuch place. >> i think taking this to the supreme court would be a losing proposition, which is why i think president trump said what he did today, i think he finally realizes that, i think the lawyers and his administration are getting through to him. he's finally starting to trust some of the lawyers the way he should. you already have bad precedent on the kourtz on the issue of standing, that's been about that technical procedural issue, you don't want to make things worse by possibly taking the risk that the supreme court could affirm
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that bad precedent on standing. so i think you just let the sleeping dog lie, and if you want to sort of expedestriitiou repeal and replace obamacare, and their original goal was to get these revised vetting prosaid seed yours from the original executive order. i think there's tremendous pressure on the trump administration to go ahead and place those orders in the next few days. >> coming up, our exclusive new reporting about allegations raised in that highly controversial dossier compiled for political opponents of donald trump. u.s. investigators confirming to cnn for the first time that at least some of the information
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contained that dossier is corroborated and national security advisor general michael flynn now changing his story about whether he had conversations with the rush someone ambassador over the lifting of sanctions against russia. # shocked by your wireless bill every month? additional fees. tacked on taxes. come on! with t-mobile one, taxes and fees are now included! get 4 lines of unlimited lte data for 40 bucks each.
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. there is more breaking now tonight, c nrkcnn has learned aa collection of memos claimed by a former political agent for political opponents of then-can date trump. for the first time, u.s. investigators tell cnn that they have corroborated some of the communications details in that 35-page dossier compiled by that former british mi-6 agent. cnn was first to report last month that then-president donald trump and president barack obama were briefed as to the existence of the memos before the nomination. >> why is this corroboration of some details contained in this dossier important? >> until now, u.s. officials have said that none of the allegations have been verified. but law enforcement and intelligence officials tell us that intelligence intercepts of
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foreign nationals concerned described in the dossier took place between the same individuals on the same days and from the same locations as detailed in the dossier, the corroboration is based on intercepted communications that give u.s. intelligence and law enforcement officials quote greater -- as they continue to actively investigate it's contents, we should be clear that cnn has not confirmed the content of the calls or any of the content relates to then-candidate trump and none of the newly learned information relates to the salacious comments in the dossier, this story this afternoon, white house spokesman sean spicer says, quote, we continue to be informed by cnn fake news reporting. the cia director and the director of national intelligence -- >> help me explain to our
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viewers what investigators are telling us that they have confirmed and not yet confirmed? >> remember that the goal of this intelligence investigation is to figure out whether there was truth to those aelllegation that that russians were trying to promote donald trump. to give them a sense of the credibility of the author who is already someone they're familiar with as having credible source, and the memos detail about a dozen conversations between senior russian officials an other russian individuals, so that was one of the starting points and the one thing the u.s. has i foreign call intercepts. and u.s. intelligence officials are emphasizing to us, that the conversations they now verified were solely between foreign nationals including those in or tied to the russian government. intercepted during routine intelligence gathering. but some of the individuals involved in the intercepted communications were known to the
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u.s. intelligence community as heavily involved in collecting information damaging to hillary clinton an helpful to donald trump. now sources would not confirm which specific conversations were intercepted or the content of those discussions due to the classified nature of u.s. intelligence collection programs. >> we have been very careful throughout reporting this story going back weeks of specifying exactly what's been confirmed and what's not been confirmed. help explain to our viewer what is investigators still cannot verify at this point. >> one of the officials stressed to cnn, that they have not corroborated the, quote, more salacious things in the dossier, and cnn has not reported any of the salacious allegations, but when we first reported this story, u.s. intelligence and law enforcement said they had not corroborated any of the memo. none of the officials we spoke to would comment or provide
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proof of any alleged comments or meeting between u.s. officials and russian citizens. they have not reached any judgment on whether the russian government has any compromising information about the president. and we should remember that president trump and his staff have repeatedly dismissed this dossier as phony. >> i can assure our viewers that this is a story we're going to continue to follow. sean spicer called us back to emphasize his very severe displeasure with the stoirks and i'm quoting him directly. it's about time cnn focuses on the success of the nation and strengthening relationships with japan and other nations, trump won because of his vision for the nation. thanks to e van perez and pamela
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brown. national security advisor michael flynn and the u.s. ambassador did speak about sanctions in at least one phone call. jake tapper reports the details. >> reporter: a bombshell out of washington today. nine current and former government officials told "the washington post" that national security advisor michael flynn discussed u.s. sanctions with russia with russias ambassador before taking office. both flirn and the white house insisting that's not the case. sources tell cnn these meetings occurred in september, just when obama was announcing retaliatory sanctions kbrens russia for interfering in u.s. election. >> it's not just that, oh, this subject came up, it's that flynn is conveying a clear signal to the russian ambassador, don't
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overreact to these sanctions obama is announcing, we're going to revisit this later. >> reporter: discussions were explicit contradictions to president obama's actions, but this is what vice president mike pence told cbs. >> those conversations that happened to occur around the-time that the united states took action to expel diplomats had nothing whatsoever to do with those sanctions. >> reporter: that forceful denial turned out to be false. did the vice president know he was repeating a falsehood or did general flynn lie to pence? the white house says the reports are a problem they will get to the bottom of, adding that the vice president had only conveyed what he had been told, creating tension between flynn and pence seen here earlier today. here's what sean spicer had to say about flynn's call to the russian ambassador. >> the call centered around
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logistics of setting up meeting between the president of russia and the president-elect. it was about logistics about how that call would take place. >> flynn himself denied the call when he was asked about it by the post. we asked him twice, did you ever discuss this subject with the russian ambassador, no, was the answer. and then the answer changed the next day. >> reporter: but a source close to flynn says his boss can't rule it out. the likely reason vladimir putin did not retaliate against the u.s. >> you have to wonder whether he was told hold off, don't do anything. >> reporter: then president-elect tweeted, great delay by vladimir putin, i always knew he was smart.
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was he smart or did he just have information the rest of us did not? the news about flynn is apparently news to the president. the original report came out last night, but trump said today just a short time ago, he didn't know anything about it. jeff, this story on flynn breaking in a major way today, the president telling reporters he has yet to hear about them? >> reporter: he was traveling down to florida and he was asked about a number of things, his executive orders and this story specifically. he said it was news to him. take a listen. >> i don't know about it. i haven't seen it. what report is that? >> the pennsylvania post is reporting that he talked to the ambassador of russia before you were inaugurated. >> i'll look into it. zbrr there's no doubt that he ahood a busy day meeting with the prime minister of japan here, other meetings, but it is
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very difficult to believe he did not know about this report, a, he reads the newspaper, it was on the front page of the "washington post," he reads that every stay and other channels as well. his administration confirms it, hi vice president was concerned by the fact that this happened and he was not aware of it. it's pretty difficult at this late in the day, the president did not know about it. >> i realize it's early in this investigation, but what potential repercussions could general flynn be? >> reporter: first, the vice president went out on television and said that simply didn't happen. and i talked to aides around the vice president and throughout the administration today, and they said, the vice president was simply taking mike flynn at hiss word there. so i think more than the
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discussion of the logan act, and that's something that might come down the line in terms of a government official talking to another government doing business with another government, it's a little murky during a transition period, but credibility inside this house as the national security advisor i think is the biggest question hanging over him tonight. >> a big question, thanks very much. certainly a lot to talk about. joining me tonight, chief political analyst gloria borger, kirsten powers, cnn political commentator and senior writer for the federalist. cnn military retired army, and cnn security analyst and former assistant for homeland security. julia, you have some reporting on the danger that flynn may be in? >> i think the first question is the vice president of the united states, i was told today by a
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senior administration official that mike pence himself is not going to escalate this situation at all, but i was also told quite firmly a senior administration official, that pence was, quotes, very intentional before he went on those sunday shows in questioning flynn about what he said to the russians, his communications to the russians. so this becomes as jeff was pointing out, an internal problem, i was told also that, you know, flynn is kind on of thin ice at the white house, there are a lot of people who think he hasn't managed well, and they believe that if this white house were going swimmingly, or any other white house, perhaps he would already be gone. but that's not the case right now. and nobody knows how the president will feel about this. but pence is not going to push it. >> the management issue was one of those issues that came up and was fired in effect by president obama. do you believe the president hadn't heard about this story?
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>> there is no way to know, only donald trump knows that. but as you mentioned, this is someone who consumes an amazing amount of news every single day. i think it's probably more likely that he has heard about it and they don't know what they want to say about it. this is someone who was an early supporter of donald trump, very loyal and was behind him when people didn't believe in him and i don't think trump is eager to be throwing him overboard. >> you certainly with michael flynn, during your time in service, from your point of view as a military man as well, his actions, were these conversations appropriate? >> hey, look, jim, it pains me to talk about mike flynn because we were fellow officers, we both wore the cloth of the country, he was j-2 when i was commanding in the north and we were working together against the north
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terrorists. he has shown a complete disrespect for the office of the president. now whether or not you agree with the person who's occupying that office or not, it doesn't matter. as soldiers, as a guy who has won the rank of general, this is an integrity crisis, the problem with mike flynn right now, i see it in three ways, either he's had an extreme case of the dumb ass, he thinks he was above the law, or there was an integrity violation, all three of those things is something we don't want in someone who's working next to the most powerful man in the world. and too, we have a president, you know, we say in the military, an organization takes its lead from the top. and it becomes like the leader. we have seen a disassociation
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with integrity from the entire administration, as you have seen tonight with sean spicer and kellyanne conway and now mike flynn, so i think we have some problems in this area. >> you served in government and administrations, just to play devil's advocate here for a moment, don't u.s. officials, even service officials regularly have comments about issues at hand? we don't know the exact contents of the conversations with the russian ambassador, but isn't it plausible that the conversations were okay on the up and up? >> that is certainly plausible, but then why would flynn have told pence and pence have told the public that those conversations did not take place. at some stage there's so much smoke that there is fire, i think that's what mike flynn is discovering now. an correct and integrity, serves
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as national-security advisor, at this stage the rest of the world is looking at what's going on, they know the chief, the national security advisor, the person closest to the president, is maybe not under investigation, but is in this scandal, sort of like the real housewives of the situation room. there's just so much drama, and if you're a foreign intelligence agency, and you're sharing information with the united states, you've got to be a little bit concerned about what this guy mike flynn and the russians are up to. so i'm very nervous if he stays how other countries will respond, to protect our national security. so at some stage it's beyond the calls and it's what's in the best interest of the united states. >> is that fair criticism? >> i think it's a little over the top at this point. i'm thinking about sandy berger peeling off his socks and taking
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classified information out. we need to realize, what did he say, if he said anything at all? this is a source that's leaking information that should not be leaking information so the source itself is in question. in an introductory conversation where he and the ambassador were talking about logistics about the two heads of state meeting, they were talking about the holidays, they were taking a plane crash, would sanctions come up in passing? maybe they would. and would mike flynn not even think about it? it's possible. >> sandy berger was prosecuted as well. >> why did he answer the question two different ways? this isn't just reliant on sources, this is reliant on what he said. i mean how can you not remember that? >> the other thing that's surprising, there are written
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transcripts of these conversations. >> we assume that he knew he was being recorded. he was fired for talking to the press and saying things. he's a guy who should have known better. >> conversations president president obama. >> people do make mistakes, even seasoned professionals, but we don't know what he really said. they're asserting that he said, we're going to drop those sanctions and that's a different question. >> is it a mistake or is it a violation of law? we're going to come back with the whole team, stick around for the conversation, we're going to talk about the name that donald trump had with elizabeth warren, stick around, it will surprise you. i have the worst cold with this runny nose.
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president trump apparently has pulled one of his old favorites out of his bag of nicknames, during a meeting with senators this week, that the president said of elizabeth warren, pocahontas is now the face of your party. trump used the term several times in an analysis of the democratic party. offensive? >> i am perfectly willing to criticize trump when he gets off the cuff on these sort of things. in this particular case, he's making fun of her for having done something that's actually offensive which is, she pretended and claimed she was a native american for many years
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during her career and then it turned out she had absolutely no prove of it during a campaign when she was asked about it. and that violates all the privileged rules for her side of the aisle, so he's a paragon of liberalism, so he's picking up on her having done something that's a little offensive. >> are we dealing with to wrongs make a right sort of thing? >> maybe, if he was doing it with his supporter, and and speaking about a democratic senator seems inappropriate to me. >> there was something that went on during this meeting, which i think bears repeating, the president making a false claim again, saying that there were thousands of people bussed from
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new hampshire to minnesota. why is the president of the united states making these claims? >> time not certain, but i'm going to say this, as a guy who knows how to plant stories and get people running off in a direction, there's an expression in washington, if there's a secret among three people, you got to get rid of two of the people in the room to each the secret. here's my point, anything that was said in that room, particularly in the bipartisan crowd, he absolutely wanted to broadcast it outside of that room. so probably throwing something out there as a topic, maybe takes his critics off something else. >> this is something the president has repeatedly tweeted about, he's made false claims about, 3 million to 5 million fake votes of which there's no ed. >> the pugh foundation said that 24 million people were registered improperly. >> there's a difference between
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problems in registration, like the trump family, and that there was voter fraud. there's no evidence of that. >> there probably will be. >> have you seen evidence. >> we will find out as time goes on. >> first of all there is no evidence and there won't be any evidence, it would be the greatest heist in political history, if that many people voted and we didn't know about it. but there's a largest point here, the larger point is that donald trump has not made the transition between campaigning and governing. >> he hasn't made the pivot. >> he is acting like a candidate, calling elizabeth warren, what he always called her during the campaign, except he was saying it to a bunch of democrats who he actually needs to vote with him on certain things if he's going to try and get some stuff through the congress. >> if there's anything that the democrat party has proven right
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now is that it is in the hands of franken and warren and ellison. he said she's the face of your party. >> he could have used her christian name, right? >> maybe kevin is right, it was an affectionate name that she earned. >> i don't think it's affectionate. >> there's many members of the native american community -- >> they're offended by him, not her. >> i don't take issue with that. it's the use of repetition. >> he's trying to win these people over, he's not trying to alienate them. >> hating trump isn't a plat fortunately, and while there's plenty to say, the administration might not be doing right, the reality is they're doing a heck of a lot right on substance and on policy and the democrat party has yet to introduce any meaningful policy alternatives.
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>> let's speak to what we're talking about, is the argument if she was actually was native american it would be okay to call her pocahontas? >> the original offense is actually -- we're going to say he's offense, but she was never offense. >> mary catherine, career tkirs. disruptive protests across the country as progressives bore a page from the tea party. people spend less time lying awake with aches and pains with advil pm than with tylenol pm. advil pm combines the number one pain reliever with the number one sleep aid. gentle, non-habit forming advil pm. for a healing night's sleep. i mwell, what are youe to take care odoing tomorrow -10am? staff meeting. noon? eating.
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welcome back. the controversial new secretary of education, betsy due vos was
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not well received when she visited a washington, d.c. elementary school. >> ms. devos did make it into the school, and said i will not deter in the vital mission of the department of education. polls show the country is deeply divided, but you don't have to look at the polls to see it. lawmakers are taking a lot of heat back in their home districts, it looks a lot like in 2009 when the tea party sprung up. but it's progressives using those tea party tactics at town hall meetings to get their point across. >> reporter: just by watching the very end of republican congressman jason chaffets left
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the town hall. and in the midst of the event in the suburbs of cottonhood heights, the kind of reception, he's not -- republican politicians facing fiery backlashes at the republican town halls, from utah to tennessee. at this town hall sponsored by the college republicans at middletown state university in fur murfreesboro, the town hall only had a capacity for 78 people. >> we were let in, even though there were fire codes and we sat on the stairs, if we don't get it, shut it down. >> reporter: inside three state legislators and congresswoman briuy black, the chairman of th
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house budget committee. >> we're going to change it into something that's going to be good for the american people. >> reporter: for the most part, that statement didn't go over so well. >> i can't put all my trust in someone saying we're going to make a plan, but we have had six years and we don't have a plan. >> exactly. [ applause ] >> beside the quote that was business the president that if you like your plan you can keep it, which was one of the greatest lies of the -- >> oh, give it up. get on to the question. >> the second was that the republicans don't have a plan. paul ryan had a plan even before the affordable care act. >> where was it? >> reporter: even for some of the people in the crowd who don't like obamacare, unhappiness, there's no new plan ready to go. >> you're sitting in the chamber, what's the holdup? >> the holdup is that we kwachbwant to do it right. >> reporter: anger from
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americans in these opening weeks of the donald trump administration, the déjà vu of the anger in the protests at the beginning of the barack obama presidency and what would become the tea party movement. this past weekend, republican congressman tom mcclintock left his town hall early. a gauntlet of police surrounding him, offering him protection after he found plenty of angry constituents. >> certainly lots to discuss. joining me now is robert reich, he's the former labor secretary and author of "saving capital ism for the many not the few." also cnn commentator, he's a contributing editor and a donald trump supporter. i can begin with you, how worried should republicans be? republican democrats were riding
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high, control of the white house, both houses of congress. then you really had the seeds formed of the tea party, issome something on the other side? >> they shouldn't be worried about the progressives, what they should be worried about, though, is their own base. somewhere in that package was an obvious and i think good question. why was the republican leadership and congress not ready with a plan that should have been on the floor of the house the day they were sworn in. i can tell you there is increasing restlessness from republicans at the base level, saying why don't you repeal it, we want the plan, do it now. and that seems to be, there seems to be some hesitation here, that's what they really should be worried about. the rest of it, that's the of situation, they lost the election, we're going to go in a different direction, but, boy, you better have that map and
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that chart ready. >> secretary white, no evidence that they do have that map and that chart and the plan, is this an opportunity for the democrats. >> i think it is an opportunity for democrats, it's an opportunity for independents, it's an opportunity for everybody who is basically fed up with what they have already seen over the last three weeks of a trump administration. one of donald trump's promises, among others, but one of the major promises he made was repeal and replace obamacare, but i will agree with jeffrey lord. >> we can't have that. >> i will agree on this particular point and that is that republicans had no plan. and they cannot get a plan, because there's no way of replacing obamacare, the only way you replace obamacare is if you come up with some way of preserving the preexisting condition provision, which depens upon the mandate that
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requires healthy young people to get health kay, without that you can't cover preexisting conditions. >> the mandate doesn't work, when you have a lot of people >> we can debate whether it's worked or not. every cost is increasing, and dedu deductibles are going up. and thank goodness, the obama str administration stopped them. are they going to stop the big health insurers from coming together and monopolizing? >> jeffrey does raise a fair
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point there, which is that the balance so far hasn't been achieved of the mandate getting enough of those young people in the system in effect to counter balance the older people who are in effect more expensive. >> i disagree with that. you are, the mandate is working pretty well with regard to preexisting conditions, now you also have another part of obamacare, and that is 80% of the people on obamacare, affordable care act have been getting subsidies, and those subsidies have been coming from taxes mostly on very wealthy people. and f and if the republicans want to repeal those taxes, how are they going to subsidize health care for all of the people who need health care. do you have a solution for that? the republicans have nothing. they have come up with zilch. the only alternative is basically a single payer system.
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>> socialized medicine simplies to not work. >> there's a very simple question. what's the replacement. >> what's replacement. >> slogans aside. >> why should eye, i, in pennsylvania, not be able to buy health insurance from a good plan i see in california or florida. >> you think merely allowing anybody to buy insurance from any carrier in any state, you think that's going to finance preexisting conditions and sub at thises th subsidies. >> i have to give you the final thought. >> there's no thought. >> jeffrey lord and robert reich, you raise some of the big issues on both sides of the conversation. just ahead, van jones and the travel ban, what he learned when he talked about the ban to survivors of the san bernardino terror attack.
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it's reporting that you'll only see here on cnn. and moments away, at the top of the hour, van hosts another "messy truth" town hall. bill maher is his guest tonight. so if you switch to esurance, saving is a pretty safe bet. auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call. i am benedict arnold, the infamous traitor. and i know a thing or two about trading. so i trade with e*trade, where true traders trade on a trademarked trade platform that has all the... get off the computer traitor! i won't. (cannon sound)
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after losing in appeals court, president trump is considering issuing a new executive order on a travel ban, which he says is necessary to keep americans safe. the ban two weeks ago disrupted thousands of lives. it's been messy, to say the least. at the top of the hour, van jones hosts another "messy truth" town hall. he recently visited san bernardino, california. >> so the trump administration has been using this attack that happened right here in san bernardino as a way to justify the travel ban. i wanted to be here, i wanted to understand, what do the people who are actually affected by it think about the whole thing.
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>> you could hear screaming and all of the gunshots. >> sally and hal are survivors of the san bernardino attack. >> he came in, started spraying from the north side to the south side where the christmas tree was. and he ran out of bullets right about the christmas tree. he killed three guys to the left of the christmas tree, but i was saved because he ran out of bullets and was reloading, and at that point i said it's probably a good time to run. >> your lives have been changed and the political environment seems to have been changed in a very major way. when you hear the new president talking about what happened here and calling for keeping sort of countries out, does that strike you as good or bad? >> i disagree with it, mentioning san bernardino in that context as a justification, i fell like it doesn't really make any sense. >> why not? >> well, the people who did this, one was home-grown, and the other one was from a country
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that's not on the ban the list. so it won't have prevented our shooting. >> after everything you went through, everything you saw, you don't think it's worth it to hold them all back? >> i think if you're going to hold an entire nationality or religion responsible for the actions of a few people, that that's really walking the line of civil rights violations and human rights violations. >> i know you care about civil liberties, but does trump's policy make us safer? >> i don't see how it's making anybody safer. i think there's a concern for people who are already in the country, that are united states citizens. what were we doing to address that. >> you are somebody who's been a trump supporter. you the voted for him. what do you think? >> well, i hate it when it's called a muslim ban, because, you know, we had a couple muslims in the office that are the sweetest people in the world
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and were shot by another islamist, whatever you want to call him. so i had to go look into the law a little bit more. okay, these are countries that don't have very stable governments, you don't have good information abilities to screen people from those countries. that's the rationale i saw. >> is there not a danger that by being this tough on these countries and maybe doing too much of a broad brush, could you blind wind up creating more terrorists? >> if that's what's trumped up to use as a recruiting people, it's possible. but they haven't had an air forbes sin force since 1978 because of severe screening. >> a lot of trump supporters are happy about this. they feel like obama wasn't paying attention. trump is paying attention. is that a good thing? even if he's maybe, he's not
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getting it all right, is it a good thing that he's at least trying to do something? >> that seems to me to be appealing to the lowest common denominator, because those people who believe that these countries are all inherently bad are outside the fringe of normal. they don't speak for me, and i know they don't speak for a lot of conservatives. somebody asked me the other day, do you feel any safer because of the ban? no, i don't, because it would not have affected my situation one iota. the president has made a valiant effort at doing something right and kind of screwed the pooch and needs to step back a little and clear it up a little. but yeah, i have no problems for screening for radical islamic terrorists. we found out we need to start at home with that, too. >> you guys went through this together. you come out pro-trump, you come out anti-trump. are you still able to be friends? >> absolutely. >> yeah. >> how is that possible? >> i think if you rye move the labels and talk about the
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issues, there's a lot of common ground that people have. i think it removes that animosity. >> i'll tell you that's, if you guys can go through what you went through and have different political views but still find a way to take care of each other and support each other, the rest of the country has no excuse. and i hope that becomes a lesson out of san bernardino. >> i hope so, too. >> fascinating, meaningful conversation. thanks for watching 360 tonight. the messy truth, hosted by van the messy truth, hosted by van jones, starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- [ applause ] welcome to "the messy truth." i'm van jones. first off, god bless coretta scott king. now no matter what you think of