tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN April 20, 2017 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
it's amazing, so many decades later, these are still the same questions that we're asking. >> if we really want to honor martin luther king's brilliant legacy today. i think we have to try to enact what he was trying to do and make it a reality, rather than just a dream. what's wrong with this picture? this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. sarah palin with her own rogue's gallery of kid rock and ted nugent in front of a white house portrait of hillary clinton. is she throwing shade at the former first lady? president trump says he's closer than ever to a plan to repeal and replace obama care. maybe just days away.
is the obama turning up the heat just to get a win in the first 100 days? and new details in the case of aaron hernandez. why was a bible verse written on his forehead when he was found? we have some breaking news tonight. a fiery hillary clinton goes after the trump administration right here in new york. here to discuss, nia mallika henderson, david gergen, selena zeto and hilary rosen. kevin madden and alice stewart. good evening to all of you. nia, hillary clinton is speaking out tonight. speaking at the lgbt community center in new york. and she sounds feisty. >> i think we have to face the fact that we may not ever be able to count on this administration to lead on lgbt issues.
let's remember 2018, the midterm elections. we can never stop fighting. we need to dedicate these next years, the next two years, the next four years and beyond. to supporting people and organizations that are advocating for the best of american values around the world here at home, and we also have to win elections to make it clear where our country stands. we need to resist, insist, persistent enlist. and make sure our voices and our votes count. we're going to keep fighting together side by side for equal rights. and we're going to make sure that nobody turns the clock back on what we have achieved as americans. >> nia, she's kept a low profile since the election. she's been coming out lately, but now it seems like she's
going to take a higher profile. do you think we're going to hear more from her going-forward? >> probably so. >> it could have been ripped from her campaign speeches. and you see now the democratic party really at war with itself. what wing should be the dominant wing of the party? the bernie sanders wing or the obama/clinton wing of the party. what will be interesting to see, she talks about 2018, she talks about 2020. i think the question right away is, will she be out there? if you are john osoff in georgia, running in a district that hillary clinton almost won, is john someone who will ask hillary clinton to come down there, raise money for him or be on the stump. that's the immediate question, how she can be most helpful to the party and whether or not people who are running in these races think she can be helpful. >> don't you think that people asking -- at least hillary clinton supporters where was that feistiness, the energy during the campaign? >> oh, sure they are. that's the thing, right?
>> she's unleashed, right? >> i think this is terrible news for democrats. the democratic party right now is going through a transition. they have to get out from under the weight of hillary clinton. 2016 did not work out for them. there's a realization of that. and if they're going to move forward, they can't have the voices from the past serving as the main thing that's shaping the profile of the party. so there are leaders inside the democratic party, they're trying to break out right now. having hillary clinton out there, all she's going to do is energize so many republicans. they will see hillary clinton, and that will unify republicans, at a time where democrats, if you look at kansas and you look at georgia, those special elections, they're very energized right now. >> i'm sorry. everything is not about elections. i love you guys, but this is not only about an election. one of the first things that gone ald trump did when he became president was let the
justice department take away protections for kids, for transgender kids. you know, this conversation that hillary clinton is having tonight in new york is about fighting back on policy. not standing -- not taking it. >> is she the right person to deliver that message? >> it doesn't matter, because people have ignored the issue. if hillary clinton is the one who will be out there reminding people at the center dinner. i'm okay with that. >> that's great -- >> i think we can't make everything be about an election. >> we have to -- >> we have a president -- >> i'm sorry, hillary. >> no, no, no, you don't. >> they are. that's why they're called elections. >> we have two years of damages that this president and congress are doing to kids, to lgbt folks, to women, and you know what, we have to fight back now. we have to talk about it now, we can't be putting everything in context of 2018. and i think the fact that hillary clinton's talking about that like more power to her.
i don't -- i'm not worried about whether she's our next candidate or our best representative, she won't be. now we have a problem. >> david, should she be -- i'll let you finish, i want to get the other guests in, i know you want to respond. >> no one disagrees with that, the fact that she's going to be shaping the profile of the party individually, that does matter to those people that are trying to little gate those policies. >> david, there are a lot of people who believe that she should just sort of ride off into the sunset. there are those who believe maybe she's not the right person to be delivering this message. especially for democrats, if they want to win going-forward. >> i respectfully disagree with kevin, i may be wrong, but in my sense, it's a false choice, between whether she ought to be out there supporting rights for gays or energizing democrats for the elections in 2018. the democrats need to seize on some issues now, and then the next few months that are really
central to who they are as a party, and run on those issues in 2018. they can't simply run an anti-trump campaign, which has steal ideas. and i believe hillary clinton can be a piece of that. there are a lot of women in this country who believe in hillary, think she was robbed for one reason or another. and are more likely to be out there if she's out there. that does not preclude. i don't know why having hillary on television one night in the last three weeks precludes a lot of democrats. it's going to be sustained enthusiasm, they need some issues, and some -- a number of surrogates to carry that message. the clintons will be very good at doing that. >> she did win the popular vote. some people think she should ride off into the sun set. >> maybe they do want to hear her voice? >> i always think it's interesting to me, throughout our history, what the loser of
the presidential race does. in a lot of ways, what they decide to do shapes the party, so mitt romney went away, he lost, you didn't hear from him for three years. the same for al gore. but clinton has been throwing out hints that she plans to be part of the discussion, even if she's not running, she plans to sort of continue to express her platform and the things that she thinks is important. now, she was talking about lgbt rights this evening. it would be interesting to me to see if she picks different -- other components, economic components, climate components to see what her overall message is to be -- what she wants it to be for the party. >> i want to hear from you, alice. >> i think the secret would be for tom perez, the head of the democratic party, would be to
try as much as he possibly can, incorporate the bernie sanders wing of the democrats as well as hillary clinton and barack obama. that's the secret recipe for success. >> and that way they would be able to continue to push their message leading into 2018. what we saw in georgia, and the cd 6 race. we saw not necessarily a referendum on trump. but the republican that won, she didn't embrace trump fully, she didn't fully support him. i will go to washington, i will be a conservative, i will be a check on barack obama. that's what people, at least republicans want, and so ossoff was smart to make this more of a national campaign, and a referendum on donald trump. that's what we're going to see in a lot of these races across the country. and certainly in 2018, it's going to be a check on donald trump. >> i want to move on and talk about this. sarah palin, one of the president's earliest backers is in the news tonight. she was invited to the white house for a dinner, posted photos, including this one. posing with ted nugent and kid
rock in front of the portrait of hillary clinton, do you think that was disrespectful of hillary? >> well, i think it's classless, but, you know, i don't think anyone cares that much. look, if donald trump wants to turn the white house into sort of the d-list of celebrity apprentice, i guess he got the right to do that when he was elected president. i don't think it exactly endears a significant portion of the country to him. i don't really think he cares about that, nor do i think stair rah palin cares about that. >> here's the thing, ted nugent called president obama a subhuman mongrel. he called hillary clinton a worthless bitch. should he be invited to the white house and included in that picture? >> i don't think there's anything wrong at all for donald
trump to have people like that in the white house, it shows -- it's a sign of disrespect. they were snaring at her in the photo, it was intentional. one of the party members thought they ought to give their index finger -- that went too far. they were having fun at her expense. i think it's inappropriate in the white house. i think hillary's right, we shun the go too far with this, the trump people do have an argument, that saturday night live and other institutions have been skewering him for weeks. if it's the clintons, bill clinton always show utter respect for the white house? not in the minds of a lot of conservatives. i hope this is a one day story and we can move on to more important things. >> but the difference between snl and calling the president of the united states a subhuman mongrel.
>> oh, that was totally out of bounds. his language is horrific. he said a lot of things that shouldn't be out there in public print. is it -- i agree with the point -- he's not a classy guy to have in the white house, but does he have the right to invite whoever he wants in there? >> yeah, that's how a lot of rich people get in there. you may not like it very much, but they're important to the president's political life. >> sarah palin was on with jake tapper earlier, here's what she said. >> president trump called to invite, just to touch base, ask me to get to d.c. and we'd be able to chat over dinner, and ask if i would invite a couple fiends. >> so you brought kid rock and ted nugent? >> jesus was booked so i invited my buddies, bold, courageous all american dudes, who i knew would have good conversation with the president, and get to express a lot of good -- middle class work
ethic type of issues and policy proposals that they could all relate to, and that's exactly what happened at the dinner. >> there's an interesting picture of the three of you next to the portrait of former first lady hillary clinton. >> yeah, i think the picture says it all. >> so first of all, all american dudes, nia, and middle class values, last time i checked ted nugent was wealthy, kid rockwellthy, sarah palin as well. >> you know, i think this is a fitting photo, in many ways, i thought that sarah palin was donald trump, before donald trump was donald trump. she was the one who was on facebook, using social media, way before donald trump was, and i think he kind of stole her playbook. it's fitting that she's there in that crowd there, ted nugent and kid rock.
that's something that i think -- and even sort of the disrespect to hillary clinton there, that's something that obviously a lot of conservatives can relate to, and something donald trump picked up on as well. i think it's pretty fitting. >> president obama's official photographer later tweeted this photo of president obama with william daley, be respectful. are the president's aids giving him good advice on things like this? alice? >> i think with regard to the photo, there's nothing that could have been done about that. i was able to spend a few minutes with sarah palin today, in talking about that, she said the dinner itself was good, the two of them were pretty involved in the presidential campaign. ted nugent was supportive of ted cruz for quite some time. they had a good respectful conversation as far as the picture, they have outspoken
view views. they have a different way of expressing themselves and whether or not they should have done it in front of hillary clinton's portrait is up for discussion. but that's who they are. >> do you think this would have been as big a deal had they just taken a picture of the dinner where she said they had a great conversation? >> no, let's not overanalyze or try to rationalize this too much. i think this is a president who just likes and feels comfortable around celebrity. those are three celebrities in the white house, and it's also a reflection of just how this information goes viral. we've heard stories about willie nelson spoking a joint in the white house. that's a story that's a legend. it was told by willie nelson and then passed on. nowadays with social media, and the way you have these pictures
go viral. willie nelson would have live so i think -- i just think we should not try to overanalyze it. >> i have to run. kevin, you're always the voice of reason. he likes being around celebrities, and that's a very, very astute point, i think. i have to run, we'll be right back. go ahead, david, just quickly. >> i was going to say, richard nixon had elvis presley in there, and that was quite a scene. i think it's really telling that the same day, the last 24 hours, ted nugent had been in, kid rock has been in, the same day president trump standing with the italian leader and said, praise pavarotti, he's a good friend of mine, a very good friend of mine. pavarotti has been dead for a decade. >> and his widow yelled at him for using his music. we'll talk health care when
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chaffetz, saying he will not run again and may not finish out his term. what is the story here? >> some people were wondering whether or not there's a looming scandal, right? here's this ambitious guy who all of a sudden says he's not going to finish out his term. not going to run in 2018, and he wants to return to the privat sector. he's told politico there's no scandal looming, no ethical issue he's running away from. there are a couple things, he may run for governor in 2020, he wants some sort of television contract. he certainly is ambitious. not necessarily very well liked on the hill. he's sort of ambitious even given the level of ambitions of people in congress. so, you know, we'll see what happens. i mean, it's not clear that he can kind of seek a job in the private sector as he's a member
of congress. he's said that he could -- he might leave in the next couple months or he could could also -- here's a guy who has been on the house oversight committee, going after clinton and benghazi, talking about impeaching obama at one point about. >> he came out against president trump -- well, then candidate trump. >> does anyone on the panel snow what the skinny is, it does seem strange, no? okay. hillary, i'm going to ask you, chaffetz, this is from john podesta, he says, when they say it's about family, it's never about family, hillary? >> well, i don't know if that's true, but i think it is true that members of congress don't typically announce in the middle of their term that they're going to leave and be mysterious about where they're going or what they're doing.
so there's clearly more to this story. and i think it is worth noting that chaffetz would be just like any of these republicans are in a very tough position, with a president with clear ethical challenges. and, you know, the leadership telling them that they're not allowed to investigate them. >> yeah. >> so what would he be doing if he were there anyway, he's completely ineffective. >> saying you're not going to seek re-election, is one thing. for an ambitious, it's another thing, kevin. >> well, look, it did come as a surprise. >> republicans speak this for us. >> particularly when you just get to power, it makes no sense. >> people don't give up power. >> i don't think there's any republican speak here, this has happened to democrats before. i think what's clearly surprising is, it took a lot of people by surprise, he's not somebody who is aging, he's not somebody who got passed over for a gavel, he's a sitting
chairman. he's very popular in his particular seat. i think nia's reference to a potential gubernatorial run is very realistic, and maybe you want to spend more time with your family before you go back into public service, or potentially engage with the private sector before doing that. it wasn't possible. i wouldn't speculate about anything negative without any evidence. so until i'm presented with other evidence, i'm willing to totally take him at his word. >> i meant republican speak, because you're a republican, maybe you had some inside info. >> it came as a surprise. it came -- for anybody who covers capitol hill, it came as a surprise to a lot of people. >> this is what i teased before the break. the president held a press conference today with the prime minister of italy. the issue of health care came up. let's listen to what he said. >> we're doing very well on health care, we'll see what happens. this is a great bill, a great plan. and this will be great health
care. it's evolving. the plan gets better and better and better. and it's gotten really really good. a lot of people are liking it a lot. we have a good chance of getting it soon. i'd like to say next week, but it will be -- i believe we will get it. and whether it's next week or shortly there after. >> next week, could a bill be on the table as early as next week. where do these negotiations stand, david gergen? >> i -- the aids in the white house who are telling the press -- they're setting a deadline for the end of this next week are doing the president a real disservice. they're basically saying, we have a pr deadline, the 100th day of his presidency is coming a week from this saturday. we want to get a victory so we can claim something in the pr battles. they want to win the pr battles so they can save their jobs and not have the president bring them -- you know, come down hard on them after the 100 days are
over. the second thing is far more important. this is not healthy for the country. the congress has to do this next week, keep the government's lights on, and keep the government moving, and that deadline is also coming up at the end of the week. it should be their number one priority, number two priority, and number three priority. health care, if they really are going to try to pass a bill, they could have 24 million people lose their insurance. it ought to be carefully done with deliberation, showing the country what's in it, letting people know everything before it's done. they should not rush this through, keep the government going, and then do a deliberative job on health care. >> alice, i'll get you, it didn't go well the first time. we were here a couple weeks ago talking about it. >> why go at it again, and so close to the time? >> well, it's important to go at it again, i think what's even more important is to not use that sort of false red line, oh, we have to do it by the 100 days. i think it's important for the
president and for congress to show that they're working on it, they're working back and forth with each other, from what i understand, the tuesday group, and the freedom caucus, which will be the moderates and the assumer conservatives have been hammering out on the initiatives that kept them from coming together. if i were all three of them, i would just put my head down and keep working, you can't get the tax reform without the health care. >> here's the thing, alice, you heard what david said. they should -- now, there are bigger things that they should be doing, keeping the lights on. selena is saying, talking about the false deadline as well. this false red line. if we can put this quote up from politico. the multiple white house gop insiders say the white house doesn't understand how congress work. just because trump officials say there will be a vote next week doesn't make it so. it goes on to say that.
why the rush now, is this about the first 100 days? >> it is absolutely about the first 100 days. they want to have a concretes identifiable victory before they get to 100 days this is something they really want all the members of -- certainly those in the house campaigned and won on repealing and replacing obama care. >> are they setting themselves up for failure, alice? >> as selena said, the conservatives and the moderates, the house freedom caucus and the tuesday group, they had a conference call today, and ironed out some details. the limited waivers for states to opt out. we could actually have something on paper for a more formal discussion as early as tomorrow. i think putting as we all say, putting out deadlines on this, is not the way to go, we need to slow down, we need to take it easy, and make sure we do it right, as opposed to doing it right now. >> you carpet rush this, it needs to be done slowly and
methodically, lowering premiums. >> epic fail the first time, why? possibly terrible headlines. >> every time the republicans unveil a proposal for health care, it turns out that it hurts people, takes something away, that people have. and hurts them in their district. so they're trying to do something in secret, it's not going to work, because eventually sunlight will happen, and they'll see, they'll get the same push back again. >> appreciate it. here's a twist for you. remember this? >> i have a judge who is a hater of donald trump. a hater. he's a hater. >> well, now that judge will hear the case of the first major challenge to president trump's new deportation policies. we'll discuss that. i'm trying to get the first. over here we have quiet spaces for deep thoughts. the latest smart technology. and of course, personal mobility solutions... functional and pragmatic.
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for remarks he made about hawaii and the federal judge there, who put a hold on the second travel ban. listen to this. >> we are confident that the president will prevail on a deal and particularly on the supreme court, if not the ninth circuit. this is a huge matter. i really am amazed at a judge sitting on an island in the pacific can issue an order that stops the president of the united states from what appears to be, clearly his statutory and constitutional power. >> an island in the pacific, by the way, hawaii about. >> it's actually several islands, you have oahu, maui, the big island of hawaii, kauai. >> several islands. all of them in the united states of america. >> for almost 60 years now. >> i think he was being a little flippant. i find it weird that a single district court judge can issue a
nationwide injunction. barack obama learned that when a judge in brownsville, texas, also part of the united states put a hold on obama's immigration reform plan. this is the rules of our legal system. hawaii, part of the united states. i was about to say ohio. also part of the united states. >> i know all 50 states, okay? i can name them all. >> can you name them backwards? >> president trump previously called a federal judge in california a so-called judge, now attorney general sessions appears to dismiss hawaii as an island. our federal courts establish under article 3 are co equal partners with congress, and the president. congress and the president -- it is disappointing that ag sessions does not acknowledge that.
so wheeze your reaction. by the way, attorney general jeff sessions voted to confirm judge watson when sessions was in the senate. >> you know, administration officials often get mad at judges, because they are ruling against them sometimes, and judges have life tenure. unlike senators, unlike attorneys general. but you have to live with it, and sessions has to live with it. >> nia. hawaii senator, mazey tweeted this. this #islandinthepacific has been the 50th state going on 58 years, and we won't succumb to your dog whistle politics. >> i think this is going to be the role for jeff sessions. democrats haven't liked him, they gave him a rough confirmation, they all but called him a racist during those confirmation hearings. that's what you're going to see over and over again with jeff sessions.
he's at odds with where they want to be, in terms of this ruling, in terms of the travel ban, but any number of issues like criminal justice and police reform. we saw that with republicans and eric holder too. he was a big target of republicans and i think for democrats. jeff sessions is going to continue to be a thorn in their side. and also, somebody they can kind of rally the base around. because we've seen that already. >> how is this for just a weird coincidence, the universe works in strange ways. the federal judge that president trump criticized during the 2016 election, he's back in the news. because a strange twist as i said, he's now presiding over deportation case involving a dreamer. what are the chances? >> not that -- >> actually, not that unusual. there are a bunch of these cases involving the travel ban. you say donald trump criticized
him. it wasn't criticism, it was racist insults. i mean, in a -- there were low moments in the campaign. but when donald trump said to jake tapper that he couldn't sit on the case, judge cure yell couldn't sit on the case, because he's a mexican. >> he's actually born in indi a indiana. >> well -- >> he's from indiana. >> he's a mexican american. i mean, the idea that a mexican american judge couldn't sit on a case involving him was sao racist, and so repugnant and so -- didn't matter in the outcome apparently. but it was a memorable moment. when we come back, aaron hernandez death ruled a suicide, the latest on the investigation. and medical school. it's no wonder he said, "you don't have to pick me up." at lincoln financial, we get there are some responsibilities of love you gotta do on your own. and some you shouldn't have to shoulder alone.
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brennen and allen dershowitz. good evening. christine, you first. we learn new details today about aaron hernandez' death. it was ruled a suicide, i know there were questions out there about what had happened to him, why would he try to kill himself? the authorities have said it was a suicide. there were apparently three notes that were found. he wrote the verse john 3:16 on his forehead. or it was written on his forehead. and about eternal life from the bible that's a lot to process. it's just another sad, bizarre, horrible turn in a story that has the lead of that story, that this man is a convicted murderer, was a convicted
murderer. and now here he is. >> even though there were conspiracy theorys yesterday. >> you thought it was a suicide all along? >> as a result of this being ruled a suicide now, the families have some chance of saying, look, the principle you void a conviction when a person dies is one thing. when a person takes his own life, maybe you shouldn't void the conviction, you're giving him control over the conviction itself he may have had reasons for killing himself, to help his family, against the victims it's possible the courts will look at this old english notion. it's important that we understand that the apellet
process is an important part of the process. i've reversed many convictions on appeal, you don't want to say a person's guilty when he hasn't had a full chance to have his appeal heard. >> again, i'm going to reiterate what allen said, now that his death has officially been ruled a suicide, what does this mean for his conviction. do you agree with what allen just said? >> i think the law is pretty clear in massachusetts, under this abatement law. his attorneys can go into court and basically, we go back to where we started from. and the conviction no longer stands. that's the legal outcome, in the court of public opinion, i think people will still consider aaron hernandez to be a convicted murderer. it also has implications for the civil suit that lloyd's family has pending against hernandez' estate. you can't use that murder conviction to establish liability in that civil lawsuit.
so it could have a profound impact on the family's ability to recover civil damages. >> it's interesting, they have already found liability. and the only issue now is damages, will they undue the finding of liability? it's going to be very complicated. this does create problems for the family, undoubtedly. >> if hernandez' conviction in the oden lloyd case is now void, we're talking about the possibility of what happens next. the patriots owe the hernandez estate the money they didn't pay him after his arrest. >> keep in mind when this news first broke, don, the patriots cut ties with aaron hernandez as quickly as they could. and wanted to distance themselves from him as quickly as they could. so the fact now that this is all thrown back in the mix, i think, in many ways the patriots probably wish none of this were
occurring, of course, and the fact that aaron hernandez committed suicide as tragic an ending -- an unexpected ending in this horror show that is the entire story. patriots are now thrust back in the news. yesterday they were at the white house, and we're talking about them in an entirely different light. >> i don't think the patriots are going to have to pay him any money. they were entitled to fire him based on his moral terpitude. a good clean salad is so much more than green. and with panera catering, more for your event. panera. food as it should be. we're out ink,nk! not ink. printing doesn't have to be painful. now, during "hp savings month" at staples, get up to $180 off hp printers.
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still a lot of unanswered questions about the suicide of ex-nfl star aaron hernandez. his family made an announcement am today about hernandez's body. here's his attorney, jose baez. >> everyone's well aware of chronic traumatic encephalopathy which in short is known as cte. the family of aaron hernandez has decided to donate aaron's brain to the study, so that we can possibly help other young men who decide to play football. >> so cte, christine, is
essentially damage to the brain. you and i have talked about these stories a lot. could it have played a role in what happened? >> it throws another big question mark into this story, don. this is the topic of the last decade in the nfl and will be for the foreseeable future, concussions and how they impact players. and have they caused dementia, do they cause other problems. obviously, again, let's make the point as big as we can, aaron hernandez was a convicted murderer. and i don't know that we can make the link and say, oh, cte, now, of course, he's a murderer, no, of course not. but the fact that his brain will be donated, remember, he was only 27 years old. so we're not talking about frank gifford here. we're not talking about tony dorsett or other players we've seen donate their brains, have the family donate their brains, have issues, mcmann is having issues now in his 50s. this is a very young man. it will be fascinating to see
how it plays out. no way to see what the conclusions will be. >> areba, for a brief period of time baez said they were holding his brain illegally. >> there was a dispute going on about the release of the body and the release of the brain tissue. the medical examiner wanted to complete its investigation, do its medical investigation to determine the cause of death. once the cause of death was determined a suicide, apparently the brain was released to the family per their wishes. that was to the university so that this research can begin. i also want to point out there has been some studies that suggest cte does cause mood swings, and aggressiveness. the unfortunate part about it is the studies on the brain can't be done until the individual dies. so you can't even find out what's going on with the person until they are dead. so i think it's a courageous move on the part of hernandez's family, to donate his brain for
research and science and hopefully it will help other young men and women who play sports where they're subject to these head injuries. >> alan, considering the cte, you know, he was just acquitted on a double murder on friday. already serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. most people can't even imagine what the reality must have been like for him. and the cte, he had played football. do you think he should have been under suicide watch? >> you know, people don't commit suicide after they've won a big acquittal. he had his appeal pending. he had a really good shot at getting his first-degree mudder conviction reversed, perhaps reduced to second-degree murder which would have given him some light at the end of the tunnel. he had a superb legal team working for him. no, i don't think the circumstances were such that anybody could have suspected that this is a man who was likely to take his own life at that point in time. i think it came as an absolute shock to his own lawyers, to his
family, to the family of the victims. and i'm still in shock. i loved him as a ballplayer. he was an elegant, fantastic ballplayer, really important part of the brady receiving team. i was shocked when he was arrested. and much, much more shock when he took his own life. i can't fault anybody for not putting him under suicide watch. >> just to punctuate that point, the family and legal team said they had no communication with him to suggest he was depressed or sad or had any concept of killing himself. in fact, he was excited about the possibility of this appeal, and maybe having his first murder conviction overturned. >> yeah. you say, christine, this is a true american horror story. why do you say that? >> because when you think about it, what ellen was just saying, when you think about how this young man started, in the home of espn, a sports american story, part of the fabric of our culture, when you think of going
to the university of florida, catching passes from tim tebow, winning a national championship in florida, catching passes from tom brady, going to a super bowl with the patriots, that is a resume and biography that we know, we have heard thousands of times. and when you think that the next sentence is, convicted murderer, my goodness, you know, you would never have envisioned that. of course, that, i think, is why this is such a tragedy for all. and going back to the cte question that you just asked about, maybe the positive is, if you want to look at this and say, horrible heinous actions, terrible, obviously lloyd is dead, now aaron hernandez is dead, if there is a positive note out of this, maybe we'll learn something from his brain. wouldn't that be quite a turn of events from what has been a horrible story. >> areva, ellen, alan, thank
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