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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 5, 2018 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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good evening. we begin tonight with breaking news on the ground and aboard air force one. the president making headlines tonight, breaking his silence on stormy daniels. speaking out for the first time about the $130,000 hush money payment his own lawyer made to daniels. talking about his embattled and some say ethically challenged epa administrator scott pruitt. the president has been considering pruitt to replace jeff sessions. the president denies it. the president also returned to
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key campaign themes today. immigration, alleged voter fraud and more, uttering as you'll see, a whole string of red meat slogans that are actually untrue. we want to begin with the president talking for the first time about the hush money facilitated by michael cohen to keep daniels quiet. today on air force one the president was asked by a reporter and he answered. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen make it? >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney. you have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> no, i don't know. >> well, both daniels and a former playboy model, karen mcdougal have alleged affairs with then citizen donald trump. but until today the president has refused to answer questions about either woman. >> thank you all very much. >> -- lying about the affairs? >> mr. president, is karen
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mcdougal telling the truth? >> will you watch "60 minutes"? mr. president, are you going to watch "60 minutes"? >> is stormy daniels a liar, sir? >> in the past, he's left it up to the white house spokespeople to try to answer. they've never said any more about them than variations on this. >> look, the president has addressed these directly and made very well clear that none of these allegations are true. >> the president's denied the allegations. >> the president strongly, clearly, and has consistently denied these underlying claims. >> i would refer you to the president's outside counsel. >> i haven't spoken with him about that specifically. the president has denied these allegations. i don't have anything further to add on that. i believe i've addressed this question pretty extensively. and ongoing litigation, i'm not going to comment any further than i already have. >> so now the president has broken his silence, denying any knowledge of the money paid, the hush agreement and putting it
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all on his attorney, michael cohen. >> we wanted to ask mr. cohen directly of course. we reached out to invite him on the program, we have yet to hear back. joining us on the program is stormy daniels' attorney, michael avenatti. you tweeted out earlier this makes your case stronger. how so? >> it's a great night for us. it's like christmas and hanukkah all rolled into one. you can't have an agreement if one party claims they knew nothing about one of the principle terms of the agreement. so the president has just shot himself in the foot. he's thrown his attorney michael cohen under the bus in the process, put him in dire straits with the state bar of new york. according to the president, mr. cohen was negotiating this agreement and doing it all on his own without consultation with the president. we don't necessarily believe that, by the way, and we're going to test the veracity or the truthfulness of the statement.
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but you know, anderson, we knew sooner or later he was going to crack. this is a man that is not disciplined. he's not a disciplined client. we knew sooner or later it was going to happen. we were patient, and lo and behold, the gift came from heaven this afternoon when he responded to this question on air force one, which he never should have responded to, he should have left it alone and now he's put mr. cohen in a world of hurt. >> i want to read you a statement that was released in response to what the president said. he said, quote, this is an accurate assessment of the facts. this is exactly what i have been saying all along. michael cohen made the payment to protect reputation, family and business. it had nothing to do with the election. you obviously believe it's no coincidence this was done 11 days before the election. if the president is right and he didn't know about the payment and mr. cohen did this, in fact,
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as an in-kind campaign contribution, that would be a violation of election laws,, correct? >> correct. and michael cohen could face felony charges in connection with that and could face serious, serious problems. and anderson, i think what we've seen over the last seven to 14 days is, an effort to effectively put michael cohen in the cross hairs. the president and others are putting a lot of weight on this man's shoulders, and they better hope that he holds up. because if he doesn't hold up under questioning by me or mr. mueller, if he caves, the president and the administration should be -- could be in a very, very bad place. they could pierce the attorney-client privilege based on a crime fraud exception. they are putting michael cohen in the cross hairs, anderson. it's clear as day, and i don't think it's going to work out well. >> you talk about interviewing michael cohen. you obviously want to depose the president as well. your motion to do that, and you
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can correct me on the legalities of this, or the legal terminology. essentially, the judge declined or said it was premature to rule on that because the other side had not filed their motion. they have now filed. so are you going to refile that motion to depose the president and michael cohen? >> absolutely. as we said when we got the judge's order, we were going to wait for them to file their motion to compel arbitration, they filed it on monday. this next monday we will be filing our opposition to that motion together with a motion to take the deposition of the president and michael cohen, a two-hour deposition of each, and we're going to get to the bottom of what happened here relating to this payment, relating to the agreement, et cetera. you know, anderson, it's one thing to answer a question as you board air force one and potentially deceive the press, it's a completely different story when you're placed under oath and you have to raise your right hand and attest to things. we saw that with bill
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clinton and other politicians in years past. history teaches us that those things are vastly different, if you will. but make no mistake about it, our case just got a whole lot better. we knew the day would come. i just didn't know it would come this quickly. >> well, michael cohen's side, david schwartz, said that you're not going to be deposing them, because this is going to be -- the judge is going to push this to arbitration because that's what the nda calls for. >> david schwartz, let me just put this kindly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. the motion, the federal arbitration act is very clear that if the other side contests the existence of the agreement, which is what we are doing, we are entitled to a jury trial on that question, and that's before the court makes any determination as to whether the case goes to arbitration, and in fact, when the judge issued his decision, calling our motion premature, the judge backed us up on that point and bolded it in his order.
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and yet again they stepped right into it. they went ahead and filed their motion anyway, which i consider to be a legal blunder. we're going to get a jury trial on the question of whether there was an agreement and discovery in the leadup to that jury trial and we're going to find out what the president knew, when he knew it, and what he did about it. we're going to place both of these gentlemen under oath. >> michael avenatti, appreciate your time. thanks very much. let's get some perspective now. mark, i'm wondering what kind of impact you think the president's statement today might have on this case if any. >> i think michael's spot-on. i was actually waiting for how long he was going to get to it, and he got to it right towards the end. you've got a whole truck load of ways to get into the attorney-client privilege. i think he's absolutely right that now there's a real question as to whether there's an agreement.
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i didn't think they had a whole lot of hope in that area, but i think they do, and i think they're in a much better spot today than they were yesterday. had. >> well, explain why you think it's a better spot today. >> when he tells the reporters, i didn't know about it or something to that effect, and then go talk to my lawyer. that's a one-two punch. i didn't know anything about it is an admission that he wasn't a party to the agreement. and, go talk to my lawyer is an invitation to drive right into the attorney-client privilege. so it's a -- in just that one simple statement, the president took a case that was extremely difficult for michael to make, and he just helped him make it. >> susan, do you agree with that? for weeks, the president has refused to answer any questions at all regarding stormy daniels. why do you think he chose to do that today? >> you know, i don't think he chose to do that today. i don't think he came back with the intention of answering that question. i think if he had thought about
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it his plan would have been not to answer the question as he has declined to do over and over again in the last couple weeks. i think what happened was, he came back on air force one because he wanted to talk about other things and reporters being reporters, they ask about the things the person doesn't want to answer. and very difficult in those close quarters to pretend you can't hear it. that's why he spoke so briefly. that's just a 25-second clip, i think he just felt compelled to respond to something that the white house has spent almost a month convincing him he must not talk about in public, so i'll leave it to the legal experts, what the legal consequences of this could be, but politically speaking, this is a kind of turning point. because the president has addressed this with clear answers that the other side is going to contest as being untrue. >> mark, the judge's previous
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ruling on michael avenatti's motion, saying it was premature, the judge's ruling was not merit-based. do you believe michael avenatti is correct when he says he's going to get a jury trial on this question of an arbitration? >> i don't know that he's necessarily going to get a jury trial, but he's a lot closer to surviving and not having this compelled arbitration, and i mean a lot closer than he was yesterday. the idea that he's just conceded, the president is telling the press, basically telling the american people, that he didn't know about it, you know, that -- then how can he come in at this point and tell a federal judge, by the way, i want to be a party to an agreement i knew nothing about? i mean legally, it's a very difficult position, as much as the law favors compelling arbitration, this may be one of those cases where a judge just says i can't do it.
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there's enough of a doubt there that we're going to let somebody, a fact finder, make that decision. >> susan, now that the president has spoken out on this, do you think he can then remain quiet or do you expect more from him? >> well, you know, the president, i think, on most issues likes to speak out, especially when he feels like he's under attack. and it's been the anomaly with stormy daniels that he hasn't either spoken or tweeted about her, despite this barrage of attacks that she and her lawyers have made and the very interesting interview that you did a week ago. i think his instinct is to punch back. and it, maybe it becomes more likely to do that in the wake of having broken ground today with the exchange on air force one. but i don't think we know. because i think it is pretty clear that his advisers, his lawyers, do not think this is a great idea. >> great to have you on both,
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thank you very much. coming up next, late reporting on scott pruitt and how he's somehow both reportedly on the brink of losing his job over ethical concerns and somehow under consideration, recent consideration by the president for attorney general. later a texas sheriff weighs in on the border wall. and the president keeping troops at the border until the border wall is built. my name is jeff sheldon, and i'm the founder of ugmonk. before shipstation it was crazy. it's great when you see a hundred orders come in, a hundred orders come in, but then you realize i've got a hundred orders i have to ship out. shipstation streamlined that wh the order data, the weights of , everything is seamlessly put into shipstation, so when we print the shipping ll everything's pretty much done. it's so much easier so now, we're ready, bring on t. shipstation. the number one ch
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there's breaking news tonight about a member of president trump's cabinet whose job has been reported to be in
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jeopardy for weeks now, yet at the same time as new and potentially damaging details emerge about some of epa administrator scott pruitt's alleged ethical problems, and it seems his appetite for vip treatment, seems that president trump was on the way to making him the country's top law enforcement official. that's right, the president was thinking about naming him attorney general of the united states. his statements on pruitt late today on air force one add another layer to the story. but it means as recently as this week, the president has been thinking about firing jeff sessions, whom as you know, holds a grudge against for a number of things including recusing himself from the russia investigation. later aboard air force one the president spoke to scott pruitt. >> i think that scott has done a fantastic job. i think he's a fantastic person.
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i just left coal and energy country. they love scott pruitt. they feel very strongly about scott pruitt. and they love scott pruitt. >> let's get more on breaking news from one of the correspondents who broke the story, cnn's pamela brown who joins us from the white house. explain what you learned about the president and pruitt. >> reporter: we've learned as recently as this week, the president floated replacing attorney general jeff sessions with embattled epa administrator st scott pruitt. even as pruitt faced this growing list of negative headlines about ethics concerns. at one point, it was said that the president was trying to protect pruitt. this reveals how confident he remains in pruitt, despite a dizzying number of ethics issues. pruitt has remained in trump's good graces for the most part. though a source familiar with
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the matter said the president's confidence in him has faltered some earlier this week in light of some of the ethics issues that continue to surface. he is hesitant, however, to fire him, because he likes entertaining this idea of replacing sessions with him eventually, and that he will continue to advance his agenda at the epa. on air force one, trump maintained that pruitt has done a fantastic job. that he needs to look at those reports, though, raising these ethics concerns. reports that have been out since last week, and our reporting is that he did watch pruitt's interview with fox news about the revelations and he wasn't happy with his performance. so he is aware of what's going on. the president also saying aboard air force one that he doesn't have plans to switch pruitt from his role. but as we know, the president has said similar things about other cabinet members and then done the opposite of what he said he would do, and he's also
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repeatedly complained about firing many in his administration, in this case including sessions. it doesn't mean he will, anderson. >> kelly and others in the white house, do you know their feelings on this? >> reporter: kelly has a different posture on this, i'm told. he does not have the same level of confidence in pruitt that the president does. in fact, he had advocated to the fire him before the headlines got worse. i was told by a source that he called pruitt on tuesday morning and basically said, if there's anything else out there, we need to know. you better tell me. and i'm told that the interviews that pruitt did with fox news and the washington examiner only made matters worse. that the white house told him not to come out and do these interviews. he did them anyway, as we know. and i'm told from sources that if these negative headlines about him continue to come out, that could be very problematic for pruitt, anderson? >> all right, pam, stick around. i want to bring in cnn political commence tay or the ryan lizzen
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to the discussion. what do you think this says that not only was he thinking with firing sessions but replacing him with pruitt with this growing list of ethics concerns right now. >> it seems that the president can't decide whether he should get rid of pruitt or give him a promotion. and that pruitt, with these ethical issues is sort of thwarting this plan that the president seems to be bandying about. there are a lot of issues, legal issues, with whether, even, even if pruitt didn't have any of these other issues and trump wanted to replace sessions with pruitt, it's not totally clear that he could even do it, right? if you fire the attorney general, normally, the next in line moves up as the acting attorney general until someone is appointed and confirmed by the senate, right? and that would be rod rosenstein. i don't know if trump would want him in that role. so trump's whole plan here is built on a sort of legally tenuous argument that he could use something called, use the
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vacancies act to put pruitt in place of sessions. it's not, it's clear that that would be challenged. and there are all sorts of issues of whether pruitt would have to recuse himself from the russia investigation, right? which would thwart the idea behind this. not to mention, would mueller view firing sessions as another act in his, in his case of obstruction of justice, similar to how the firing of james comey is being investigated for obstruction of justice. so i think there are a lot of reasons that this plan might not get off the ground, you know, and of course pruitt being mired in this scandal makes it even more unlikely, but the fact that trump is thinking about it and that he is obsessed with this idea of getting rid of sessions, that he would still consider this tells you something. >> yeah, i mean, pamela, if the president replaced sessions with
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pruitt, could pruitt fire special counsel mueller, because pruitt wouldn't have to recuse himself -- ryan said maybe he would have to recuse himself, but it's not clear that he would have to recuse himself from the russia investigation as sessions has. >> hypothetically, if this plan were to take off and he did become the attorney general, he would then oversee the probe if he didn't have to recuse himself, and therefore he could fire robert mueller. as ryan pointed out, there are several reasons why this all may not work out, even just getting the confirmation, in and of itself would be difficult. there are the other factors at play. but i think what this shows, beyond just the fact that this is out there, that the president has floated this is that he isn't that bothered by the allegations surrounding pruitt. he was floating this earlier this week, amid these growing allegations, scandals surrounding pruitt.
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so if anything, it shows even if he's not serious about it, because it's tough to take his temperature on the seriousness of it, considering how much he floats names for cabinet officials, that kind of thing, it shows that he really hasn't been that bothered by the allegations, anderson. >> ryan, what's also interesting about this, this obsession with jeff sessions and his anger at jeff sessions and his public humiliation he's directed at jeff sessions, jeff sessions has been among his cabinet secretaries executing the president's policies very effectively throughout the judiciary. i mean, he's not only one of the president's earlier supporters on the campaign trail, but he's actually pushing the president's agenda hard at the justice department. >> absolutely. i think that's why a lot of republicans like sessions. you look at immigration, civil rights, across a whole spectrum of issues, sessions is more trump than trump. we all know that the president is not nearly -- he's not an ideologue. he has his views. but he cares, frankly, about himself and the legal jeopardy
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he's in far more than any conservative policies that sessions is pushing. i mean, one, one theory about this is that he wants sessions to resign so that he can very cleanly use the vacancy, theoretically could use the vacancies act to fill that role. the legal question is, if he fires sessions, can he do that. so trump pushing sessions to resign gives him a stronger hand to replace him with a hand-picked temporary successor. that's one theory, that his torture of sessions is to push him out without having to fire him. >> hmm. appreciate it. thanks very much. as we've heard tonight, president trump is in full-throated support of his epa chief, scott pruitt. at least he is tonight. when we continue, a closer look at just why pruitt is in so much trouble in the first place. from delivering the color you want.
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he's one of the president's most ardent enforcers, scott pruitt has won raves from conservatives for carrying out trump's agenda and as we reported earlier, was even being mentioned as a possible replacement for attorney general sessions by the president. something the president himself denies. as we've been discussing
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tonight, scott pruitt has faced a dizzying number of issues. randi kaye has more. >> reporter: on air force one, the president is asked about his epa administrator, scott pruitt. the >> i think scott has done a fantastic job. i think he's a fantastic person. >> reporter: a confidence boost from the president, despite the ethics questions hounding pruitt. just weeks after he took over the epa, he asked his security detail to turn on lights and sirens to avoid traffic. he was told no, that it was only for emergencies. later the head of his security detail was reassigned and replaced by a new agent who has since determined pruitt needs to fly first class because of specific ongoing threats associated with his air travel. which brings us to pruitt's recent flight to see his home team play in the rose bowl, and another trip with his family to disneyland, all with his taxpayer funded 24/7 security detail in tow.
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and there's more. the epa boss was renting a condo in washington, d.c. for just $50 a night and only paying when he slept there. turns out that condo belongs to an oklahoma couple that donated money to pruitt's campaigns as a state official and lobbied his agency, too, on behalf of an oklahoma energy company. the white house is looking into it, as well as a substantial pay hike of more than $80,000 given to two of pruitt's employees. speaking to fox on wednesday, pruitt suggested he had no role in his employees' pay hikes. >> i corrected the action. we are in the process of how to place -- i did not know they got the pay raises until yesterday. >> reporter: pruitt's future uncertain. >> i can't speak to the future of scott pruitt. likely because trump is torn about whether pruitt, a loyal foot soldier, should stay or go. cnn has learned that many of pruitt's supporters are in the president's ear telling him this guy gets things done and that
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pruitt's work at the epa is far more important than draining the swamp. among his accomplishments, rolling back a series of environmental regulations and advocating for trump to pull out of the paris climate accord. pruitt himself just this week clearly trying to keep the president happy. >> this president has shown tremendous courage to say to the american people that america is going to be put first. >> reporter: pruitt has aggressively pushed to repeal president obama's clean power plan and weaken many of the epa's clean air and water enforcement programs. the president likes pruitt's progress on deregulation. >> i just left coal and energy country. they love scott pruitt. they feel very strongly about scott pruitt, and they love scott pruitt. >> randi kaye joins us now, so scott pruitt has had some problems with those working for him at the epa as well. >> he certainly has, anderson.
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he's having some issues within his own agency. the "new york times" is reporting that a handful of epa officials were reassigned, demoted or requested new positions after they raised concerns about pruitt. their concerns had to do with epa spending on office furniture, first class travel, security details such as demands for a bullet-proof vehicle. one of those epa employees was an early hire in the trump campaign but was placed on administrative leave without pay after raising concerns about pruitt. a spokesman for the epa told the "new york times" that the agency disputes those agen accusations. >> randi kaye, thank you very much. during that shot on area force one, the president thinks between 2,000 and 4,000 american troops will be deployed across the border. gary tuckman will talk to a texas sheriff who has back it had move in the past but now he's not thrilled. why he's against the move when we continue.
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in his brief session with reporters on board air force one today, president trump didn't provide any details about where or when those national guard troops will be deployed once plans in place, tonight all the pentagon will say is that the guard will support border patrol agents. both presidents bush and obama sent national troops for support to the border. tonight our gary tuchman travels to the border to talk with a local sheriff who's seen it all before.
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gary joins us now at the border. gary? >> reporter: anderson, we're in maverick county, texas. behind me, the rio grande, behind the rio grande, the nation of mexico. you can see two men over there. they are not planning, as far as we know to swim over there, they are fishing on their side of the rio grande. but this area is where troops did come to watch over when the illegal immigration problem got very serious. many people supported it back then. but we're finding in this county right now, there are a lot of people who are not supporting it, including the sheriff, who doesn't want to see it happen. tom was a u.s. border patrol officer for more than a quarter century, and now he's a sheriff, the top law enforcement officer in texas' maverick county on the mexican border. do you want to see the u.s. military come to your county to help patrol the border in >> no, no, i don't.
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i think that the border patrol are well trained, well equipped. i don't think we need the military here on the border. >> reporter: the sheriff did support the national guard coming to the border under president bush in 2006 and president obama in 2010. he said the help was needed then. but things are different now. >> that was when we had groups coming in, groups of 20, 30, dope. but everything has changed. >> reporter: so you're saying that's not happening anymore in your county? >> it's not happening anymore. >> reporter: so when the white house says this is a crisis and things are getting worse, your feeling is? >> not here, not in this county. >> reporter: the sheriff says illegal crossings have been dropping for the past decade here and he equates that to aggressive policing. dobb's ranch is right on the border. what year did you move to this ranch? >> 1949. >> almost 70 years. >> exactly yep. i grew up and raised my daughter hear. >> reporter: his ranch is on the
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left side of the rio grande. the right side is mexico. in the past he's given the military permission to stage troops on his ground. he signed a form. >> we signed a lease that would allow them to come in without us suing them i guess. >> reporter: and he was grateful at the time. climbing from the rio grande to dobb's ranch is not easy. you have to climb steep hillside, covered with thick vegetation and the occasional rattlesnake. but cunningham says he's seen it happen thousands and thousands of times in the years he's lived here. however, like the sheriff, he says things are now different. >> we had groups of 20 or 30, up to 100 in a group. and they would come one group to three groups every day. >> reporter: do you ever see groups that big anymore? >> no, no. definitely, no. we don't really need any help right now, other than what the border patrol provides. >> reporter: there are certainly still plenty of people illegally crossing here, and this remains a drug smuggling route.
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but the sheriff says his department, combined with the border patrol have it under control. and cites the sad story of a 18-year-old texas high school student who was shot and killed in 1997 by a u.s. marine who mistook him for an armed illegal immigrant. >> i'm afraid of that happening here. some soldier getting nervous with a weapon. seeing someone, one of my constituents walking toward the border, and shooting. >> reporter: for now, the sheriff waits to see what's next. has the governor, the white house reached out to you as a border sheriff to tell you what's going on? >> never. no information. not from washington d.c., not from austin, our capital. nobody. >> does the sheriff expect to get any notification from the governor or the white house that national guard troops are coming to his county before they
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actually arrive? >> reporter: he certainly thinks he's entitled to get notice, but he doesn't think he will get any advance notice. particularly in light of the fact that he has been exposed as a nay sayer. he is a democratic sheriff in a mostly democratic county. i asked what's the first thing he would say? he said he would say it's a waste of money. more money should be used for the sheriff's office and the board patrol and more equipment for the sheriff's office and border patrol. >> we like to hear from different viewpoints. that texas sheriff is one end of the spectrum. on the other end is former arizona sheriff paul babeu who joins us. you heard what that sheriff said. what do you make of that and what's your opinion? >> well, our border patrol heroes are well trained and well equipped. they're undermined, not only by
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current law with immigration, but the fact that those numbers preelection to trump, those numbers are returning. we saw 70, almost 80% decrease in illegal entries after trump was elected, because he was saying he was going to build a wall, he was going to enforce the law. many in his cabinet, namely jeff sessions and secretary kelly at the time, said we're going to add all resources to the border. so that had a real impact, because people south of the border, namely, the coyotes who were escorting those who were being brought illegally into the country and drug smugglers understood that, hey, there's a different president, a different approach. there will be consequences that are real if you break the law, and enter into the united states. now we're seeing a probing of that, a testing of that, if you will, when you see this caravan that's coming up from honduras, with the thousand to 1200 that are down near mexico city, and to see what happens as they
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approach and look to request either refugee or asylum status to come into the united states. >> so, but you view that as a probe. i mean apprehensions at the border are at their lowest level since 1971, and obviously, the most illegal immigrants, immigration occurs from people overstaying visas in the u.s. i guess critics of the president say this is basically more about politics to kind of please his base, because he hasn't been able to start building the border wall like he said he would. >> well, nearly 40% is the number that we often hear, could be half of the 12 million illegals who are here currently that are overstays of their visa. the rest are those who have entered illegally. that's a big number. so when you're talking that we're hearing numbers from the border patrol that these numbers are starting to tick back up, yes, it never was to the same numbers that it was under president george bush when he had deployed under operation
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jump start, there were 600,000, 700,000 just here in the tucson sector that were apprehended in one year. so we're not seeing those numbers, but if we have 300,000 illegals coming across the border that are apprehended, is that too many? i would say yes. i think because not only we need a secure border, but it's not just about the illegals. it's about the drug cartels we're fighting. most of the heroin, 90% that comes into the united states is coming from this unsecured border, and lastly, the national security concern that few talk about, that people from countries of interest, possible terrorist threats that can easily slip through an unsecured border with mexico. >> but i mean, have, you know, the president talked about enemy combatants coming across the border. what's evidence of that? >> well, i could tell you, i don't look at it as, in terms of enemy combatants, i served as a commanding officer down in yuma
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for a year and a half, and what we saw there, we didn't have rules of engagement. we had rules of force. our soldiers and air men did not have law enforcement authority. we actually served in direct support of our heroes in the border patrol, and it worked famously. there in the yuma sector, we saw a 94% reduction in illegal entries and drug smuggling. so it's not a -- mexico is not a -- >> were there terrorists or enemy combatants coming across? >> well, we saw, there was next to nobody coming across, because we had armed, national guard soldiers and air men that were directly on the border, and even at nighttime, very different than anything we've done in the military, we had a bank of lights that actually lit them up, operated by a generator, so anybody south of the border could clearly see that my god, there's armed soldiers right there. that acted as a real deterrent. there was no incidents. there was no conflict.
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it was just the fact that hey, you're not coming across the border, and that's essentially what the president is saying, that until the wall is built, he's going to deploy these soldiers, so i hope he does it in this capacity and not mechanics or support in the offices or doing surveillance. >> sheriff paul babeu, appreciate you being on. as always. thanks so much. coming up, the russian saga heats up. russian oligarchs entering the united states questioned in several cases by the special counsel's team. we'll talk to michael hayden. get his take on that, and the president getting troops south of syria. on it was crazy, like.. it's great when you see a hundred orders come in, a hundred orders come in, but then you realize i've got a hundred orders i have to ship out. shipstation streamlined that wh the order data, the weights of , everything is seamlessly put into shipstation, so when we print the shipping ll everything's pretty much done.
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russia state run media reported the bussing carrying expelled diplomats left the embassy in moscow today. russia kicked out diplomats
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today including 60 americans. a familiar sounding accusation from russia ambassador. they called the poisoning allegations a fake story. joining me is cnn national security analyst. general hayden does expelling on each side make a difference. as far as collecting intelligence is concerned? it takes a long time to get people trained up to get into russia and do what the cia does. >> it will make a difference, anderson. the bullets aren't being forced away. the individuals are being kicked out. we can replace folks but the training line for folks going to russia is quite long. frankly, i think the russians have a bit of an inherent advantage here. they will find it easier to
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replace their people than we will ours. they have more people that speak english than we have people who speak russian. i think russia is a more difficult operating environment that requires more training than is required. for russians who want to operate inside the united states. both countries will suffer. it will take us longer to recover. >> i want to ask you about mueller has taken the step to stopping several oligarchs, what does that tell you about where the investigation is. as the former director of the nsa, is that the most effective way to net electronic communication? >> it's actually quite an effective way and takes advantage of provisions in law that allow government at a border to actually have pretty invasive rights into these kinds of electronic devices. there's another reality here to
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that i think we're seeing. that's the use of the russians of cut outs for what it was they did or doing with regard to the united states social media. our electoral process. the lawyer who met with don junior in trump tower. a lawyer concerns with orphans. not technically an agent of russian services. the business partner for manafort. the contact with other members of the campaign. the internet research agency in st. petersburg. the troll farm. all of these are indirectly connected with the russian government. so they have plausibility deny blt. if you want to inject money into the electoral process doing it through oligarchs gives the russians the plausible denyability again. >> whether or not to withdraw
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u.s. troops from syria. seems he's been convinced to hold off on what he talked about publicly last week. if you were advising the president, what would you tell him? i go back to an example on air. >> when we planned to go do these things we have four phases. deploy, shape the battlefield, fight. that's the part we all call war and stick around to create stability on the ground. stabilization operations. those who do this for a living know if you don't do phase four you get to do one two and three again. three, five, seven years in the future. unfortunately, i think the argument with the president now between the president and his military advisors is not about phase four. it's about allowing them to finish phase three and so even if they talked the president into staying a bit longer, it will be about simply the combat
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destruction of remnants and not phase four that's desperately needed. otherwise we turn the future over to iranians and russians, and turks and syrians. >> if it were still toward the end of phase three, isis is still not destroyed, the amount of time you believe u.s. forces would be needed on the ground than syria is longer than the president might be imagining. >> they know what they're doing in their heart with the president who wants to leave. he really does sound like president obama in 2011 with regard to iraq. the tide of war is receding, iraq is on the run. it's time to build nation building at home. that's what we did and the requirement for us to go back into the region and fight another war.
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