tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN April 19, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
and her crew, amazing job. >> amazing man indeed. i think i speak for all of our viewers. we want to thank andrew needum for doing what he did. our deepest condolences to the family of jennifer riordan at the same time. that's it for me. thanks for watching. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next. breaking news. deputy attorney general rod rosenstein revealing trump's standing in the michael cohen investigation. this as one of trump's long-time attorneys warns cohen will turn on the president. he is my guest. also breaking, rudy giuliani now joining the president's personal legal team. is this a game changer for trump? plus comey's private memos now on their way to capitol hill. could be released? let's go "outfront." and good evening. i'm erin burnett "outfront" tonight. a major warning to president trump. the lawyer who handled both of
his divorces says beware of michael cohen, that cohen will flip on trump. joining other former trump advisers and start cooperating with the feds. that lawyer sounding the alarm to the president is jay goldberg, and i'm going to be speaking with him in just one moment here. today a reporter asked the president if he was afraid of cohen flipping, and here is how the president responded. . >> are you worried he is not loyal? >> thank you, everybody. i hope you saw the crowds in key west. never seen anything like that. it was really very inspirational. >> talking about crowd size. of course turning to his favorite topic as a crutch to avoid addressing a possible major threat to his presidency. michael cohen is under criminal investigation by the feds in the southern district of new york. an investigation that has been going on for months. and then after a referral from the special counsel bob mueller, turned into a raid of cohen's home and office. private recordings have been seized along with a whole trove of other information.
and even though cnn is learning the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein told the president he's not the target of the fbi investigation into cohen, it's unclear. it doesn't mean he couldn't become one, which may explain why sources say trump is consumed by this investigation. cohen flipping on the president could be a seismic event. cohen has been the president's fixer, his personal attorney for more than a decade. back to 2007. here he is with trump in 2011 at the time helping the president, then mr. trump, set up the website, quote, should trump run. here he is with the president in new hampshire in the same year, at that time telling cnn he takes care of trump's problems. >> i protect mr. trump. that's what it is. if there is an issue that relates to mr. trump that is of concern to him, it's of course concern to me. and i will use my legal skills within which to protect mr. trump to the best of my ability.
>> then 2013, traveling with trump to las vegas to meet with wealthy russians. cohen dined with them as well. and you see him here with aminah agalarov, you remember the guy that helped organize that infamous meeting at trump tower. cohen was also at the president's side during the campaign at n 2015 and 2016, introducing him there and during the presidential transition, and even the presidency. they're close. and the president has returned cohen's loyalty with praise. >> michael cohen is a very talented lawyer. he is a good lawyer in my firm. >> federal prosecutors could threaten cohen with some serious jail time. trump defender alan dershowitz even says cohen could be facing life imprisonment, which makes you think about the choice of loyalty versus spending the rest of your life in jail. what cohen chooses is significant. and that's why one lawyer, who also has intimate knowledge of trump's business empire is
raising the regular flood. i mentioned him jay goldberg, he has known him for decades. in fact, he helped negotiate trump's go divorces decades ago. he is predicting cohen could end up cooperating with the feds. we're going to talk to jay in just a moment. i want to go to jeff zeleny "outfront" first in west palm beach. jeff, how concerned is the president tonight? >> well, erin, it's interesting, because so much focus had been on james comey. but i was talking to a white house official who said he has weathered james comey. it is michael cohen that is consuming him. and the key point, erin, is this. michael cohen is viewed in the west wing at least as a wild card, someone who never came in the administration, although he wanted to, but he was blocked for a variety of reasons. so he never came inside the administration. and frankly, the white house officials have no control over him. so i am told the president has been asking multiple people what he should do about this, if he thinks that michael cohen will flip. i'm told the president still does not think that he will, but that has not sort of calmed all these questions here.
and erin, we have pointed out again and again how different michael cohen is than all the other advisers, the other people mentioned. it's probably confusing to some viewers here. but michael cohen is as close to the president as it gets here. so that's why the president is concerned. all this coming as the president is adding new lawyers to his legal team. a familiar name rudy giuliani. he was here in florida meeting with the president in palm beach for some 30 minutes or so at mar-a-lago at least the other night, talking about this. rudy giuliani being brought on board here. but it is those questions about michael cohen, what he might do that i'm told is worrying the president tonight. erin? >> all right, jeff zeleny, thank you very much. and a very fair concern. "outfront" now, jay goldberg, long-time attorney, personal friend of president who represented him in both of his divorce cases. and you spoke to the president about michael cohen. you're also a former federal prosecutor. >> yes. >> you've known him a long time. you know new york extremely well. he called you? >> he did.
he called me on april 13th. >> so this is after the raid. >> yes. >> so what did he ask you? >> he asked me about a number of lawyers and what i thought the lawyer best suited for him would be. and i didn't accept the notion of flip. flip means to me that when faced with the potential of spending time in jail, he will tell the truth. i don't think that's what the president was concerned about. and that's not what i'm concerned about. i'm concerned about a person whose facing a lengthy prison term is likely to say those things which in the witness' mind would best position himself for a 5k-1 letter which would enable the government to
recommend that he be shown leniency. that doesn't necessarily mean that he tells the truth. flipping is an expression that we use when a witness is of a mind to tell the truth. but history has shown that people under the threat of heavy litigation glean what the prosecutor is interested in hearing, and they can form their conduct so that they can get what's known as the 5k-1 letter. >> so you're saying he will turn on the president. basically, he will indict the president, but it wouldn't necessarily be by telling the truth. >> that's right. >> do you know michael cohen? >> i do. >> why do you think that? >> i do know him. he is of a type that i've recognized in the past as one not suited to stand up to the rigors of jail life. and don't forget he is under pressure not only from his own personality, but from his family. they don't see michael as taking
the pressure or a fall for somebody else. and if the government requires a certain kind of cooperation or gives out a hint as to what could be necessary, the record has shown -- >> so you think he is a weak, weak character, basically? i do. i do think so. i think in many ways, and it's difficult to say this, prison has a racial overtone. and the person like michael doesn't see himself walking down broadway while people are clamoring you're going to be my wife. and so he is under pressure from his family to try to figure out what it would take to bring the government aboard as his sponsor. >> so you're saying -- i want to make sure i understand. >> yes. >> you're saying michael cohen, it sounds like you believe did do something wrong, that there
could be something criminal here. you won't be worried about jail otherwise. but you don't think he would have the goods on the president. he would simply say what they wanted to hear to get out of his own prison which you believe he could very fairly have deserved? >> i don't say that the government has importuned him to say certain things that are not true. but a witness in michael's position is able to glean what it would take to get a letter of cooperation from the government and thereby avoid a lengthy prison term. the record is clear. it corrupts the system, said one important federal judge that witnesses under a threat of going to jail for a long period of time generally try to conform their conduct in such a way that they can earn what's known as a 5k-1 letter. >> leniency. >> that's what the president is worried about. >> so what did he say when you told him this?
did he share your curb about michael cohen? >> he said he understood. i said to him that the southern district of all the dribs in the united states, some 96 districts, engages in body recordings. >> wires essentially? >> wires. that doesn't require any judicial oversight. that just is the prosecutor's decision. they educate the witness to say certain things and then the witness can say something that would possibly jeopardize his position. this is a case you run the risk of a perjury trap. calling a witness, calling donald to testify, and knowing that you have a couple of witnesses who can contradict him that would be a perjury trap. the government does that. >> so -- so when you told him,
he understood. he didn't say i'm worried about michael cohen or i agree. did he give you any color as to why he is so deeply concerned about the cohen situation? >> at one point i said to him that the chief deputy of mueller is a person of questionable honor, in my view. >> rosenstein? >> no, no. andrew weissmann. >> okay. >> he said he heard that from a number of people. i was then told that andrew weissmann has been walled off. he is not going to involve himself in any investigation involving the president. and i thought that was a naive assurance given to a member of the president's staff. because even though he may not be out front, his disciples, people he has chosen to be on his staff, after all mueller is not sitting and working on the case himself. it's the chief deputy that calls
the shots. >> so you were telling the president you think the mueller investigation could be compromised and unfair? what did he say? >> i think people are starting to lose interest in mueller's investigation. i think his approval rating has gone down. america doesn't like a marauding black hooded individual with a lance going around the country with few restraints and trying to indict people. rand paul, the senator from kentucky said that few people could withstand the scrutiny that mueller has placed upon trump. and after all, erin, please understand that while he is not involved in any collusion, collusion is not a crime. >> of course it's not a criminal crime. no. >> and the only thing they worry about -- >> but we don't yet know what mueller's conclusion will be. >> nixon, a cover-up can be worse than the alleged crime itself. >> yes.
>> so i urge the president not to let his guard down when he has a conversation with -- with michael, and to be aware of the penchant for tape recordings. nobody knows this bethan giuliani. and for somebody to say he hasn't tried a case in 20 or 30 years is beside the point. he knows the way the system works. he is a person of great intellect. >> and i want to ask you one important thing. there are many things. but one thing before we go. you represented trump in his divorce. >> yes. >> so you have worked with him. >> yes. >> you know a significant amount about his personal life. probably more than many people. >> yes. >> obviously, a part of all of this, maybe a small part, but we don't know when it comes to perjury. we just don't know is alleged payments including the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. >> yes. >> do you know of this being the
way the president would act, would use these sort of nondisclosure agreements? >> well, i was with him for 20 years. i was in the office majority of the week. i never saw the president engage in conduct that he couldn't be proud of. it may -- >> i mean, he was cheating on his wife. >> well, that's -- when i think of bill clinton, it fades in significance. and when i think of john kennedy, it fades into significance. >> so you're talking aside from personal morality. >> yes. i don't think people are that concerned that the president may have an affair or co-chief in some regard. i don't think that is of interest to the people in the heartland. i don't think so. >> what you're talking about me is professional morality? >> no. i'm talking about his personal morality. stormy daniels. let's assume there was a relationship. i don't think people are that
concerned about it. they're concerned about larger issues. syria and north korea. >> i'm simply pointing out it would still be a weakness in moral character. >> it could be, yeah. it wouldn't be the first time it happened between sexes, i grant you. but when i think of past presidents, be it kennedy or bill clinton, what donald is accused of fades in significance. >> all right. jay goldberg, i appreciate your time. thank you very much tonight. >> okay. good to be with you. >> thank you. and next, breaking news. rudy giuliani, you heard jay mention it, joining the president's legal team tonight. could this be a game-changer for trump? plus breaking news. chief of staff john kelly's role in the white house. a big change tonight to talk about. and two new hires gaining power tonight. we'll tell you who they are. and michael cohen dropping his suit against buzzfeed. this is something he is personally passionate about.
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special counsel bob mueller's investigation, saying, quote, it needs a little push. giuliani is a district attorney for the southern district of new york. he met with president trump for half an hour this week at mar-a-lago. also joining the team gene and marty raskin harry sandik, carrie cordero, and our political analyst mark preston. a lot to talk about, harry. let's just start with rudy giuliani. he said he is going to push for an end to the mueller probe. trump says giuliani wants to end this quickly. that's been the president's drumbeat for a long time here. is that just big talk? >> i think it's going to be very hard to deliver. rudolph giuliani has had a long and distinguished career, but he is not a magician. and he can't disappear an investigation that has been going on for 11 months there are multiple people who have plead guilty as cooperating witnesses whom. are they cooperating against?
we don't know. but there is no indication that the investigation will just fold up because giuliani asked bob mueller to do it. it seems hard to imagine. >> it's fair to point out you have guilty pleas. you have indictments. you have charges. it's not as if any of those have not happened. they have happened, putting michael cohen aside in the southern district. carrie, we know the president was turned down by multiple a-list lawyers, that he had gone out and asked to join his legal team, and none of them wanted. to giuliani, though, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. he has worked with mueller. the other two hires who are married, which i find to be a fascinating part of the story are white crime prosecutors, decades of experience there. all of this announced together. how significant is it? >> well, erin, i think one of the most important things as the president continues to build his legal team is are these new lawyers, giuliani and the additional two lawyers, are these lawyers that the president is going to listen to. is he going to trust them. is he going to take their
advice? because what's evidenced from the interview, the president is on the phone, asking people who he happens to know, who he has a history with, what he should do. and that indicates to me that he is struggling to have trust in his legal team that he feels he is getting advice that he can rely on. look, if rudy is the guy that the president will listen to, will keep confidences, will establish a proper attorney-client relationship, then that potentially could be useful to him. >> so, mark, speaking of loyalty and a relationship, right, giuliani and trump, they go back, right? when nobody, and i mean nobody. we remember the weekend when the "access hollywood" tape came out. chris christie wouldn't go on the peekd wooeweekend shows. nobody would go. but guess who went out there and just ate it. rudy giuliani. and here is what he said. >> first of all, i don't know what that he did this to anyone. this is talk. and gosh almighty, he who hasn't
sinned throw the first stone here. the fact is that men at times talk like that. not all men, but men do. >> you talk like that? >> he was wrong for doing it. i am not just fight it. i believe it is wrong. i know he believes it's wrong. i believe that this is not the man that we're talking about today. >> i mean, that was a pretty incredible moment, mark. no one else was willing to do it. no one else was willing to say it. and now i guess this is his reward, if you can call it that, to represent the president in this investigation. will the president respect, listen to, adhere to the advice of rudy giuliani? >> i think he will. but the question is to what level. and will he go through with all of his advice. what's interesting about rudy giuliani right now is you have to wonder why wasn't he brought into this case earlier than what we've seen right now. is he being brought in because we keep on seeing, and as you noted, these really top shelf lawyers are refusing to join this legal team. and donald trump's looking around and realizing my god, i
got to get somebody else in there. but what else rudy does bring to this, not only his knowledge of the southern district of new york and understanding of how these prosecutions move forward, but he does give a sense of comfort to donald trump. look around donald trump right now. he doesn't have very many people surrounding him that he can trust. he has his daughter ivanka, his son-in-law i guess to some extent, his two sons. but there isn't very many other people that donald trump can trust. >> right. >> and rudy giuliani is one. >> harry, this also comes, you know, we're learning, the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein, who had referred this michael cohen matter to the southern district of new york. >> right. >> told the president at a recent meeting that he is not a target in the investigation of michael cohen. now, obviously the southern district of new york had been looking into this in a very serious way for months before mueller referred whatever mueller referred to them that happened to be about cohen. what does this mean when rod rosenstein tells the president don't worry. you're not under criminal investigation right now?
>> i think it means two things. first, the target of the investigation -- only the target the government decides once the government decides they're ready to indict. with the mueller investigation, is the president the subject? we don't know the answer to that. the second -- >> you're saying it's the cherry on the top. you don't hear about it until it's done. >> at the very end of the investigation. the other thing is the real concern as has been reported is the southern district investigation into cohen is very strong, and that cohen has the motivation to cooperate. and who will he cooperate against? it may not be that he cooperates against people relating to the crimes that are under investigation in the southern district. if cohen cooperate, he'll be made to cooperate against anyone about whom he has bad information. >> and on that note, you know, carrie and mark, we just heard jay goldberg, right, who knows the president for 20 years, knows michael cohen, thinks michael cohen is a weak character and will turn on the president. but he said i wouldn't use the
word flip essentially saying the president didn't do anything wrong, but michael cohen will tell the feds whatever they want to hear to avoid going to prison. here is what jay goldberg said. >> a witness in michael's position is able to glean what it would take to get a letter of cooperation from the government and thereby avoid a lengthy prison term. >> carrie, is that what the fear here is? >> well, that seems to me the advice that mr. goldberg gave the president that michael cohcohe cohen. look, something under the investigation that michael cohen is obviously under in the southern district of new york, given the search warrants that were executed, given the proceedings that we're seeing, his whole life is being turned upside down. i think the point that mr. goldberg is trying to make is that is a person who might be in his experience motived to try to cooperate with the government in any way the try to bring some better resolution for his own self in this case.
but the advice that mr. goldberg is giving really seems to be based on his experience. he said one thing about the special counsel's investigation that i just wanted to point out, that i disagree with, which is that he said he didn't think the special counsel was sort of managing the case, or was running the investigation. >> right. >> on that side. and knowing how mr. mueller, the former breast cancer mueller operates, i think that that is probably incorrect advice if that's what mr. goldberg told the president. >> it doesn't fit with what we've heard about bob mueller. that's for certain. thank you all very much. and next, breaking news. the president's new national security adviser john bolton meeting with the russian ambassador at the white house. we have details on that and also breaking this hour, the president bypassing his chief of staff. sources say it is clear two new advisers are basically reporting directly to donald j. trump. is john kelly headed out?
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we offer 35 voice features and solutions that grow with your business. at&t, not so much. we give you 75 mbps for $59.95. that's more speed than at&t's comparable bundle, for less. call today. breaking news. fired fbi director jim comey's memos on his conversations with president trump are expected to be delivered to congress any moment. it could be this evening. the public expected to see the memos as well. now they will be, you know, redacted for security reasons, for parts of them at least. comey in an interview with cnn says that's fine by me. >> i'm totally fine with transparency. i've tried to be transparent throughout this. and i think what folks will see if they get to see the memos is i've been consistent since the very beginning right after my
encounters with president trump, and i'm consistent in the book and tried to be transparent in the book as well. >> justice correspondent evan perez is "outfront." these memos are very significant, at the heart of all the conversation here as it began about the obstruction of justice possibility with the president. they could pay a very important role in the russia investigation. >> absolutely, erin. and we know that the fact that these memos existed and the fact that comey decided to have some of them, or at least one of the contents of one of them leaked to a "new york times" reporter is partly the reason why robert mueller's investigation even exists. he wanted for there to be a special counsel because he didn't believe that the justice department could handle this investigation. let's remember that at least four of these memos according to chuck grassley, the senator from iowa, he says that at least four of them have some classified information, which is why as you mentioned perhaps some of them are going to be redacted before they're made public. we're told that the white house did review these memos. the president himself didn't
read them, erin. but -- >> interesting. >> but he was aware of what the contents were and the white house didn't make any redactions. the justice department is making them. and let's remember also that one of the memos talks about comey and the president having a one-on-one meeting in which he asks for the investigation to michael flynn, his former national security adviser to be dropped. and that is why this forms an important part of the investigation into whether or not donald trump committed obstruction of justice. that's a key part of this investigation that is still ongoing, erin. >> evan, thank you. and i want to go now to the former white house special counsel under president clinton, lanny davis, author of "the unmaybing of the president 2016." also with me former fbi supervisory special agent josh campbell who was a special assistant to the former fbi director jim comey, knows him incredibly well. you were there with him the moment he found out he was fired. josh, let's start with this. you were close to comey. what are we going to learn from these memos?
he says it's going to be consistent, don't worry. every single thing i've said adds up. will it? >> let's focus on what these memos represent first of all, which is quite stunning. jim comey didn't document every single conversation he had with everyone throughout the day. but what he said, as we will continue to see that he was so concerned with the nature of this relationship that he wanted to document in contemporaneous fax fashion in realtime so he would have later on down the road a representation of what took place during the meetings. we're going to see that come through. i'm a big fan and favor of transparency here in seeing these because i think it will tell a side of the story, especially with a lot of the noise we see coming from the other side. >> so lanny, we now can confirm congress has the memos which means we will see them. we've been told from gop members of congress they're coming out, right? they'll be redacted. comey says he is fine. go to congress. go public. does this carry risk or not? they will be some significant redactions, we presume. >> no, i think he has laid it out in his book and in his interviews.
but there is something he needs to be asked in, the new attorney for president trump needs to be asked. rudy giuliani on october 25th, 2016 went on fox and said "something big is coming, ha ha ha." three days later in the morning, october 28th, he said current fbi agents are telling me something big is coming. i want to see the day when he meets with mueller, and mr. giuliani representing mr. trump is handed a subpoena by mr. mueller now you're called before a grand jury. we want to know who leaked this information to you, and was it jim comey? i want to see all your e-mails between you, giuliani and you comey. a theish that mr. mueller should have to be interested in. >> what does it have to do with memos? >> i said i think the memos have been revealed. i admire what mr. comey did in standing up to mr. trump. it's one of the few things i admire about his conduct. what he did on october 28th in the afternoon when it busted with his letter to congress that
violated justice department policies, i'd like to know about his communication with mr. giuliani. how did mr. giuliani know three days before. is he the subject of a mr. mueller investigation as well? because i think what giuliani did may have been a crime. >> we're talking about memos. that's what i'm trying to get to the bottom of. >> it implies what you're saying is comey did too if comey is the leak. >> that's correct. >> where could that even come from? to allude to the guy that was going out and defending the president on the "access hollywood" tape that would be the last guy you would leak to, isn't it? >> it's a question that hasn't been asked by anyone of mr. comey. did you talk to giuliani? is that he how he knew on october 25th leaking information, which giuliani admit cod be a crime. and it's another part of this irony that now giuliani -- remember, he is supposed to be secretary of state and attorney general. suddenly he disappeared. >> i see what you're doing there, lanny. we can pose a question and say i wonder if jim comey talked to rudy giuliani.
by posing a question you're implicit in that is an accusation. what's the accusation? >> my accusation is rudy giuliani said he heard from current or former fbi agents and three days before the letter, it seemed that somebody told him. >> comey is not an agent. >> i have no idea. all i'm saying -- >> information that should be looked into. >> who knows, lanny. but completely out of right field. that's all i'm going to say. rudy giuliani knows a whole lot of guys in the fbi. >> all i'm pointing out, and you're not allowed -- >> he sure did. and maybe someone told him. but for you to jump to comey seems a very big leap indeed. lanny, i want to move to something else here. >> okay. >> listen to what comey says whether he could be compromised by the russians. i think he's wording here is something you both will be able to discuss. here you go, lanny. >> what you asked me now why did i say what i said when people asked me if i thought it was possible that the russians had derogatory information on president trump. i think it's unlikely, but i think it's possible. >> repeating "it's possible."
what do you say, lanny? >> i say what jake tapper said. i think it's possible that men are from mars sleeping under my bed. an fbi director should not say it's possible shirks doing to trump what you're doing to him. >> interesting. >> a direct quote on july 5th, 2016. although the fbi had a forensic investigation of hillary clinton's server and found no evidence of hacking, a direct quote, it is possible her server was hacked. he likes to do that. and jake nailed him. isn't that unfair to donald trump? is that unfair to hillary clinton? >> josh? >> only lanny davis could take a question into the actions of donald trump and somehow pivot that back to hillary clinton. let's look at what we're dealing here with trump. and i agree with what jake was saying. for someone in jim comey's position who was a director of the fbi and a former director, it says a lot to even bring that cloud to ait's possible, this is possible, that. i'm glad that they hit him on that. i think if you look at the book, if you look at what he said in
the past, that based on the totality of the circumstances, based on the fact the 39 elected at the time, later on the president continued to bring up these allegations which he found a little bit peculiar led him to believe it's more probable than not. >> he used the word probable? >> he said unlikely today which is a little bit of a walk-back. >> here is what josh and i appear to agree on, but he doesn't get the connection. he used the exact same device when he said it's possible that hillary clinton's -- >> back to hillary. >> that hillary clinton's server was hacked, even though a year's worth of investigation found no evidence. now he says something else is possible. jim comey does that. >> you're making a case he is a guy who likes to use the same word all the time. >> it's improper word. i agree with josh. in both case, it's an improper word because he is not stating a fact. in fact, they investigated the server. when he said on july 5th it's possible it was hacked, that was just as irresponsible as what jake called him on today during the interview. >> you had the first word. quick final word, josh? >> i mean i think having a conversation with lanny, who i
really like, sometimes it's like swimming through jell-o because i don't really know what we're talking about right now. i thought we were talking about donald trump and his interaction with jim comey. we kept circling back to hillary clinton. i have more questions than i do answers, but i look forward to doing it again with lanny. >> thank you. next, john kelly losing even more power tonight. we have breaking details just ahead. and more republicans refusing to say whether they will even back president trump as the candidate for 2020. >> i haven't even thought about that election. >> it could be a completely difficult world by 2020. >> that's a long ways off.
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breaking news. we're learning president trump's new national security adviser john bolton met with the russian ambassador to the united states, and that meeting happened at the white house today. kaitlan collins is out front. this is very significant, the first meeting between the two. it happened at the white house. what did they talk about? >> erin, it is significant. it's also significant for what they did discuss. of course the white house has issued a readout of that meeting between john bolton and the russian ambassador, and they say that among the things that they discussed was russian interference in the american -- in the 2016 american election, the poisoning of that former russian spy, the situations in ukraine and syria. and it's not typically what should be studied because th
because when spoke with vladimir putin, he discussed none of those things. so now we see john bolton, the new national security adviser, somebody who is carrying a lot of weight in the west wing is talking about those things with the russian ambassador. >> so that's very significant from what you're learning. when you talk about john bolton, clearly a star on the rise. you're learning tonight he is just one of two advisers. the other being larry kudlow, top economic adviser. the sources are telling you are incredibly now just reporting directly to the president. there is no john kelly in there? >> john kelly is still there. to be clear, the president has not expressly told larry kudlow and john bolton that they're reporting directly to him. but my sources inside the west wing say that is certainly the understanding of the new hierarchy, a dramatic change to the pecking order. because of course when john kelly first became the chief of staff, he had everyone, including ivanka trump and jared kushner reporting to him. and now the president has really given john bolton and larry
kudlow a lot of leeway in their areas of focus, hiring and firing whoever they want. and he is viewing them as these mini executives, essentially how he ran things back at the trump organization. and that's evidenced by several things. of course we saw the scuffle between the united nations ambassador nikki haley and larry kudlow this week, something that we're told the president was not that bothered when larry kudlow said that nikki haley had a moment of confusion there. but also with the departure of that homeland security adviser tom bossert. of course john bolton was just a few days on the job when bolton informed bossert he was going to be dismissing him, and bossert was stunned, and he asked to speak to john kelly. and bolton made clear it was not john kelly's decision. clearly he is reasserting his authority as the new national security adviser over the chief of staff. these two are favorites of the president right now, erin. we'll have to see how long that lasts because we've seen this movie before. >> oh, we certainly have. well put, kaitlyn, thank you.
let's go to the national review editor rich lowry out front. so pretty clear from what is describe john bolton, go ahead and talk to kelly. two guys who are the new favorites who are going to report directly to the president, sidelining kelly. what do you make of it? >> it might be a further diminishment of john kelly's clout. but i'm also not sure whether the national security adviser has ever reported through the chief of staff. this is a very assistant position itself. and john bolton is a very tough bureaucratic fighter. he learned at the knee of one of the best, james baker, the former bush secretary of state. he has sharp elbows and he is going to protect his territory. >> what do you make of a president who thrives on chaos, playing each other off. whatever word people want to put around it. letting nikki haley flail and be brought down by larry kudlow who i'm sure felt very, very upset when haley was mad at him.
i'm sure larry felt upset about that. he is a gentleman. but the president had no problem with any of that. having all these people think he is reporting to him but it's not clear and playing off each other. and they're the new guy so they're the favorite. how long does it last? >> i'm not sure any of that was deliberate. what happened is i think the president changed his mind of the policy of the russian sanctions that had been briefed to nikki haley. she goes out and dually talks about them. she feels she was thrown under the bus. >> she was thrown under the bus. so she pushesback against larry. everyone who works for trump realize there's is some expiration date on their surface service. they're going to ride the bronco as much as they can. push the ball along as far as they can. >> i like the rodeo analogy. giving me good visual. >> it's not going to last forever. >> to this front, cnn lawmakers, more than a dozen of them, our manu raju has been talking to them, whether they would support the president reelection.
they're republicans. it's their party. and almost all of them refused to answer. here is a few. >> it could be a completely different world by 2020. we have a 2018 election first. >> i think it's far too early to be discussing what the political landscape will look like in 2020. >> i haven't even thought than election. i'm worried about the midterm election. >> i have no idea whether the president runs for reelection, nor what the field will be on the republican side. so i think it's way too early to weigh in on who one might support. >> okay. they're all full of it. he has already hired a campaign manager. that's ridiculous. the he knows what he wants to do. they know what he wants to do. >> one thing certain he wants to run for reelection. >> i haven't thought than reelection is untrue. >> yeah. but it's unusual, but i think like ron johnson saying we don't know what's going to happen, that's sincere. no one has any idea what's going to happen. >> that's true. that's true. >> there is some chance. i think a primary challenge
would be very unlikely if anything like the status quo obtains. >> but other sitting presidents who have been challenged in primaries, they haven't been beaten be they person. >> right. but they have lost reelection. >> usually it's a very bad sign. if you get a serious challenge, it's a sign you're going to lose. thank you very much. great to see you. >> thank you. >> next, stormy daniels attorney with a dire warning for the president. the worst is yet to come. out front next. to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing... me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections,
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>> long time lawyer for president trump warning him tonight that michael cohen will turn on him. why trump should be worried about his personal lawyers criminal investigation. >> concerned about a person that's facing a lengthy prison term is likely to say those things which in the witness's mind would best position him to enable the government to recommend that he be shown leniency. that doesn't necessarily mean that he tells the truth.
>> up front now the attorney for stormy daniels, michael, goldberg obviously confident that cohen is going to flip. do you have any doubts that cohen will turn on president trump? >> absolutely none and i haven't had any doubts for weeks. i predicted that two or three weeks agoened i think he's now on the band wagon along with a lot of other people. there's no doubt that he's going to flip. the choice of serving prison time versus flipping on the president is no choice at all for michael cohen. he has a family. he's not going to want to abandon his family just to back the prison. it makes no sense. >> the white house of course says there's no way that this will happen and the president was asked about it today about cohen flipping and he basically didn't respond at all. let me play it for you. >> are you worried? >> thank you, everybody. i hope you saw the crowds in key west. never seen anything like that. it was really very
inspirational. >> do you think, michael, that the president has directly promised michael cohen that he will pardon him? >> i don't know that he's directly promised it to him but i think he may have illueluded t but that's a false hope and the reason is because they have effectively telegraphed that that's a possibility to prosecutors and i have to believe that the attorney general of orthot gener general of new york will communicate with federal prosecutors as it relates to the charging decisions in order to guard against that. what i mean is they're going to leave a window open to bring state charges against michael cohen and michael cohen cannot get a pardon for the state charges from the president. it will do him no good. so they have effectively shot themselves in the foot by even eluding to this or by people believing it ahead of time. >> now michael cohen has done something pretty interesting and
surprising today. he dropped his liable lawsuits against buzzfeed and fusion gps over the russia dossier which had allegations against him. he always brings up the buzzfeed situation. he was passionate about it. so dropping it is not a small thing and his lawyer said okay we're backing out. we need to focus on other matter which is presumably is the criminal investigation here in new york. is there any chance, michael, that you would consider settling your current case with michael cohen given that they appear willing to do just that with almost anyone? >> i don't think there's any chance, erin, because we will never settle this case and when i say never, i mean exactly that. never settle this case unless it involves full disclosure by michael cohen and the president about what really happened here relating to the agreement, the cover up -- >> who knew what when? what the president knew? >> the full, full montey.
without that there will be no settlement. today it appears michael cohen is smarter than the president because michael cohen is cutting his losses on the other cases. appears to be focussing on our case and the criminal matter. it appears that he's focused where he needs to be. meanwhile the president is focused on the crowd size in key west. >> now as you know, there have been questions raised about for instance what brought storemy daniels to new york. he's under criminal investigation here in new york. hear what josh holmes that was the former chief of staff to mitch mcconnell and megan mccain had to say about that. here they are. >> at this stage, clearly she wants to be on camera. there's no need for her at all to be at the courthouse yesterday. >> it seems like a publicity stunt on some level. i mean, i think yesterday because you didn't have anything to do with the case, it seemed a
little like you were just trying to get attention. >> what do you make of that criticism? would it be better if stormy daniels and you stayed lower profile? >> well, erin, you didn't play my answer to megan mccain. i blew it out of the water when i gave my answer and the answer was she absolutely was entitled to be there. the judge on friday, the previous friday had stated that we effectively had standing to address the court. here's the bottom line. people that are supportive of the president on the right are getting very, very concerned so now what they want to try to do is distract away from the issues. the claim that somehow all of this is a publicity stunt. they don't like it. they are worried and they should be worried and, you know what, they're going to get more worried because the worst is yet to come. >> the worst is yet to come? >> correct. >> anything specific you mean by that? >> well, again, michael cohen is going to be indicted. it is a near certainty. it is a near certainty that he
is going to rollover on the president. there's a lot of evidence, erin, i'll tell you that. >> all right. thank you very much. i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you. thank you for joining us and don't forget you can watch out front any time, anywhere, you have to go to cnn go. we'll see you tomorrow night. anderson starts now. >> good evening, thanks for joining us. the president said often and as recent as yesterday that he wants the mueller investigation to end. there's a smear campaign against mueller being carried out by the president's supporters that reached pretty bizarre levels but tonight there's also news about another man that seems to think he can be the one to help bring the investigation to a close. rudy giuliani is joining the legal team saying the probe needs a little push. we're joined now with the latest. is it clear what giuliani's role is going to be? >> according to our sources he's going to be the guy that goes in there and says to mueller what's the lay of the