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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  July 13, 2018 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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than eight hours ago and no sign the white house will give them up. so it is either a big deal or it isn't. and i know people will say everyone lies in politics. no. the truth matters. especially now. and someone lying a lot doesn't make their lying less of a lie. we should not apply a different standard to our president than we do to our kids. could you imagine letting your 8-year-old get -- getting away with lying about doing homework. >> have one at home. but it is okay when the president calls out the media and attacks anybody who calls him out on a world stage. no it isn't. produce the tape. if not, sarah, get after it. make the truth known. this is a put up or shut up moment. all right. that is all i have. we'll be live from helsinki on monday night for the president trump big meeting with vladimir putin. "cnn tonight" with don lemon. >> what a week. remember what we started with on
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monday? supreme court. and then the kids were to be reunited. what a week. and then him on this trip ov-- overseas and meeting with vladimir putin and theresa may and now the indictment. so a lot to cover. >> happy friday night. >> see you soon. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. on the brink of the meeting with vladimir putin, a huge development in the mueller investigation. the justice department announcing indictments against a dozen russians and not just some shadowy hackers, all of them intelligence officers in vladimir putin's military. accusing them of engaging in a sustained effort to hack democrats' e-mails and computer networks during the 2016 campaign. the indictment announced by deputy attorney general rod rosenstein at almost exactly the moment that president trump met queen elizabeth at windsor castle. and make no mistake, robert mueller was very much aware that the president's next meeting is his planned summit with vladimir
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putin himself, and in just three days. a meeting behind closed doors with only interpreters present. well rod rosenstein said today he briefed the president about the allegations earlier this week. but listen to what president trump said just this morning, again calling the investigation a witch hunt when he knew what mueller had. >> i think that we're being hurt very badly by -- i would call it the witch hunt, i would call it the rigged witch hunt that really hurts our country and our relationship with russia. he think we would have a chance to have a very good relationship with russia and a very good relationship with putin. >> a sustained effort to undermine the credibility of the russia investigation. and that is the only example of trump's own words coming back to haunt him. this is july 27th of 2017, months before election day. >> russia, if your listening, i hope you're able to find the
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30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> that is candidate trump publicly asking the russians to get hillary clinton's e-mails and the russians tries to do that. from the 29-page indictment, on or about july 27th, 2016, the kpeer tors attempted to spear fisch for first time e-mail accounts at a domain hosted by a third party provider and used by clinton's personal office. hat tip to my colleague jake tapper who pointed out the russians took him seriously and literally. and the u.s. intelligence caught some of the very same russians named in today's indictment congratulating and celebrating the success of the operation during the campaign. in the wake of this senator john mccain saying if president trump is not prepared to hold vladimir putin accountable, the summit shall not move forward. and the white house is insisting the summit will go ahead as planned. this is a crucial moment. will this president call putin
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to account and make him answer for his crimes? will he defend american democracy? what is a strong leader does. but a deliberate and pre34ed tated attack in the strongest possible terms you have to ask yourself why. let's bring in dana bash. our chief political analyst, gloria borger and shimon prokupecz. good evening. i'm asking if the president of the united states will defend the american democracy. what strange times. shimon, you first. break down what the indictments of the 12 russians military officers lay out because of the mountain of evidence. it is extraordinary. >> it certainly is. there is quite a lot of evidence in this indictment and the people that this indictment has targeted are not just some folks in russia. these are senior level military
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intelligence officials. you have a commander, a major, a lieutenant colonel, sort of running this hacking operation on behalf of the russian government and the indictment lists how they went about it. the hacking of the dnc and the dccc and then the spear phishing of people attached to the hillary clinton campaign and the chairman john podesta and then the indictment talks about how they went about distributing some of the e-mails that they were able to obtain, the information that they were able to obtain, creating two personas, guccifer 2.0 and then dc leaks which they used to distribute some of the material and then also, though not named in the indictment, wikileaks was used as well, according to the indictment. and really the other thing here, don, in the indictment they talk about how a member of the trump campaign was in contact with
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guccifer 2.0 and we know based on the reporting and even roger stone's statements tonight, he is likely the person in touch with guccifer 2.0 about some of the material that the russia intelligence was able to obtain through the hacks. and then lastly, don, another point, according to the dime, russia intelligence, this gru unit, hacked the website of a state election board where they obtained some 500,000 -- information from 500,000 voters, driver's license information and a -- addresses and social security numbers and this information is in the hands of the russians, don. >> as you were going through that, it is amazing. because it is really complicated, dana. and it is a lot. and not only complicated, it is extremely serious and you have to wonder why the president may not be taking it seriously still calling it a witch hunt even
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after rod rosenstein briefed him. we remember that clip of donald trump from july of 2016, russia if your listening. what we're learning in the indictment is the russians were listening on the same day they started the spear phishing attacks on the campaign. it is remarkable. >> it is remarkable. the exact day that you played the clip, you showed the quote from the indictment and it was public so you certainly could make the argument that that it wasn't privately colluding. but they were paying attention, they, the russians, in a big way. and just to answer the fundamental question that you're asking about why the president is still calling it a witch hunt, why he called that more than one time during this trip he's on even though rod rosenstein, his own deputy general announced he briefed the president several days ago about this and thence and it bears repeating, and we've said it many times over the past year and a half, the president when he hears russia and meddling, he
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hears my presidency is illegitimate and that is the accusation on me and it still is even to this day, even with the incredible detail that we see in this indictment about the lengths to which these russians -- high-ranking officials went to built this elaborate highly technical scheme, very expensive scheme, in order to meddle in and disrupt an american election. >> yeah. gloria, you could hear me? >> yes. >> because you are nodding your head. the response from the white house, you would think -- there was great forensics, i want to thank our justice department and our investigators, they are topnotch. >> you would think. >> but this is the response from the white house today. it says today's charges include no allegations of knowing involvement of anyone on the campaign and no allegations that the alleged hacking affected the election results. this is consistent with what we
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have been saying all along. why do they even need to say that? why didn't they say russia attacked and hack our election and they will pay and they need to be responsible. >> they declared and this will not stand as one former president said. this will not stand. instead, what we got was an incredibly narcissistic statement from the white house which said this is about me, as dana was saying, this is about the legitimacy of the trump presidency -- >> is he daerelict in his duties -- >> when you are the president of the united states it is incumbent upon you to talk to the american people about the risk the democracy is at as a result of this russia hacking. presidents are supposed to rise above. and they're supposed to tell the american people the truth. and tell the american people what is at stake here. and it was very interesting to
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me today, don, because i was listening to rod rosenstein very carefully and he went a little bit beyond just talking about the indictment, et cetera, et cetera. and said in fact the politics should not get in the way here. and we should not judge this indictment by who was victimized. i.e., hillary clinton and the campaign. and i think that is -- that is the way donald trump judges it. which is that hillary clinton was the victim here. he was the beneficiary. if it had been reversed, he would be screaming about the russians. but it isn't. and so this is the way he sees it and i think rod rosenstein was sending a very strong signal like, stop this. >> not just with what he said but with doing it today. >> exactly, on the eve of the summit. >> exactly. >> very astute assessment. matthew, let me bring you in. because i spoke to dana about
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just how listening to shimon and it is a lot to take in if you are thinking we cover it every single day and for the average person at home and they are like guccifer and 2.0 and all of these folks involved and is roger stone and what have you and you have to put the names together and systems and spear phishing and what have you. but the remarkable amount of detail, mueller even knows how they paid for it with bitcoin. what can you -- what do you learn -- what did we learn about the level of detail in this indictment? >> the bitcoin stuff is remarkable. espionage is a cash business. you have to pay for it somehow some way. the bitcoin allows one to kind of remotely pay for something anonymously. this is also a situation to figure out who made the what payments through the kind of bitcoin register which might -- if you are a future criminal or spy, maybe be more cautious about which cryptocurrency you use. >> this is a new world we're
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living in. >> it really is. i think overall, the -- the level of detail built on a narrative since january 2017 when the intelligence kind of -- the agencies released their assessment. and what they said back then was that russia, during the campaign, had developed a -- this is a quote, developed a clear preference for mr. trump. and that is continued here. and when you look at the white house statements and denials, trump and his supporters said it about the assessment and again today, saying, well, nobody said any votes were changed. that is missing -- it is a dodge in a lo-- in a lot of ways. >> but that wasn't their role. >> that wasn't their role. the intelligence said that wasn't the role of the investigators here. we have no idea if votes were changed or not and that is another piece to look at in today's indictment. the hacking of state voting machines, state election systems -- not voting machines. misspoke there. that is a subject that remains
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kind of deeply shrouded in mystery and haven't been any kind of complete investigations of any of the states. so a little bit here and there but we actually don't know what went on in a number of states where electoral rolls -- and there were problems with voter registration. and we don't know if any of that was a result of hacking or not. we still don't know. >> it makes one wonder if the old-fashioned way where you go in and punch a ticket and everything is on paper instead of this electronic way, which one is better? any time you talk about bitcoin and cryptocurrency, you're over my head because my niece's boyfriend at christmas tried to explain what cryptocurrency -- is it money or not? is it cash? i have no idea. otherwise i'm not getting it. but stick around. because we're having this as an incredible conversation. the mysterious congressional candidate would asked guccifer 2.0 for documents and got them. going new places. (oh!) going out for a bite. going anytime. rewarded!
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rod rosenstein briefed president trump this week on the indictments against 12 russians intelligence officers for election interference but at his news conference with the britain prime minister before the charges were announced the president once again slammed the mueller investigation as a rigged witch hunt. his words. back with me now, dana bash, gloria borger, shimon prokupecz and matthew rosenberg. and you have information on how the intelligence congratulated each other. what could you tell us.
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>> this is extraordinary. giving us the indication that the u.s. government and the fbi and the intelligence folks were all over this group once they determined what they were up to and what they were doing. and they were able to collect essentially intelligence of -- that though how this group, the russians, some are named in the indictment, were celebrating the success of the operation, that is the hacking operation, the way they got into the dnc, the hillary clinton campaign. they were celebrating. and then also after trump's victory, there was intelligence that indicated this group -- some of the people named here were celebrating his win. and all of this sort of has given the intelligence community and the fbi that feeling that these guys were behind some of this operation, the hacking, sort of the entrance to the dnc and the contact with the guccifer 2.0. because what they found was sort of -- why would they be celebrating or be so happy about
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some of the success and they used some of that to form their opinion and certainly in getting evident and bringing this indictment. >> dana bash, another thing that we're learning in this indictment is congressional candidate requesting stolen documents. so i just want to read some of this. it says on or about august 15, 016 the conspirators received a request for stolen documents for a candidate from the u.s. congress. they responded using the guccifer 2.0 persona and sent the candidate stolen documents related to the candidate's opponent. does that have a whiff of collusion? >> i think it is more than a whiff. i think the stench is pretty thick. but we don't know who we're talking about here. it said u.s. candidate. it is unclear if that candidate won. unclear what party that candidate is from. and certainly we and others are digging to find out. i'm glad you brought it up because there is so much information in here in terms of the -- what shimon was talking
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about, all of the russian attempts -- successful attempts to kind of -- on an election in a presidential level and the candidate for the u.s. congress, who, according to the indictment, was proactive in reaching out to this -- what turned out to be the russian intelligence officer and not the other way around. and i want to quickly say about this, talking about congress in particular, it is not just about 2016. we're looking at 2016 now. but talk to republican and democratic operatives and members of congress as they did today, it is happening now. there is evidence that it is happening now in a way that could affect and -- and probably will effect this november's election. and the concern among republicans on capitol hill is that what is the ultimate goal in russia? to keep things churning and chaotic. so how do you do that?
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you help along the democrats to beat the republicans in the house. if you have a split government it is more chaotic and that is something by ignoring what happened in the past you're not able to deal with what is happening with russia, what they are doing in the present. >> gloria, i heard a comment -- someone comment on another network trying to down play it and saying the russians have been doing this for ever and interfering in our elections. that may be so, but to this degree and with this sort of technology and looking at the means and ways they are doing it, this is unprecedented and this is huge and should be taken seriously. we shouldn't say -- we shouldn't try to down play this? >> no. of course not. what you're just saying is, in fact, what the president has said to some of his friends whom i've spoken with, he dismissed
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this as they spy on us and we spy on them and this goes on and he doesn't want to admit in any way, shape or form that his presidency might be delegitimized and they were pushing on an open door here and they got a lot of response. the detail in this indictment to me is stunning. and maybe there is a lot of detail in this indictment because they know these guys will never be brought to trial unless the president in some way gets them extradites, which he won't. or if they go somewhere where we could get them, which they won't. so the level of detail here should scare anybody. of any party. about any election. because they're invading our democracy. and it is nefarious and i don't see how any republican or any democrat cannot pay attention to this and just dismiss it as
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business as usual because it is not business as usual. it is beyond that. way beyond that. >> i wonder, matthew, what republicans, talking about the lawmakers in washington, what they are so afraid of when it comes to this. meaning, why won't they push back harder on the president to admit that russia influenced, hacked, tried to sabotage the election and is still doing it. this point politico they are -- the house freedom caucus, mark meadows had the impeachment document on the floor of the house when rosenstein spoke to the press. what do you think this could mean for the mueller investigation at large and what are they so afraid of? >> i think there is a gamut within the party. one side you have people like richard burr, the senator leading the senate investigation into russian interference who
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has pushed back on things from the white house and looking to have a credible investigation. and then the other far end of the spectrum you have house republicans like devin nunes who ran the house investigation they shut down and offered up some bizarre conspiracy theories at times and people like meadows. there are some people in the house who do genuinely believe this is a witch hunt. there are elements in the republican party who do see overlap. >> some of the -- >> one person, we're talking about van der swaan and richard gates and 35 defendants and 191 charges. let matthew finish and then i'll let you go, dana. >> i'm certainly not -- don't see a witch hunt here. but i think you do have some people there who broadly see the kind of -- the trump message, i guess and that kind of
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nationalist world view. and they see putin as in line with that. and you're seeing here their response to an investigation that threatens that. >> dana, go ahead. >> exactly. i was going to say exactly what you just heard. and that is what you presented there with that graphic are facts. and what a lot of the president's ard ebt supporters are hearing is an echo chamber and frankly i'm just going to say it, propaganda from him and from the media outlets that are symbiotic with this president. and so they hear deep state, they hear witch hunt and this is not working. rudy guiliani and the rest of the president's team have been very effective in the absence of -- there was a big lag in the indictments and the first one was kind of hard to understand. and so the public opinion has been waning when it comes to this investigation. and so it hasn't been just the
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base. it is expanded and that is why you've actually seen -- and i've heard from republicans who have said that they actually think that this russia investigation is a political plus because people think, oh, it is just the media and the deep state going after this president. >> well tell that to paul manafort and michael cohen. i have to go because we're over but i enjoyed the conversation and i appreciate you joining us on a friday night. have a great weekend. when we come back, rod rosenstein said he briefed the president earlier this week on the robert mueller indictment of 12 russian intelligence officers so why did president trump say this about vladimir putin? >> he's not my enemy. and hopefully some day maybe he'll be a friend. it could happen. (♪) i'm a four-year-old ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff.
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the kremlin slamming indictment claiming the sole purpose is to, quote, spoil the atmosphere from br monday's summit between trump and putin. the director of kenneth institute and the former ambassador to the united nations arms control director under president reagan and the author of "reagan, 48 hours that ended the cold war." matthew, you first. >> good evening. >> the kremlin denies the indictment but how will they react? what will they do? >> i think the indictments raise the political stakes for the summit. there is no question there is more at stake for president
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trump not only what he faced directly with the mueller investigation, what shoe is going to drop next and how much opposition from the democrats and the run-up to the election and from his own party but the stakes are high for putin as well. this could easily by the last summit that putin gets in a trump administration if trump is seen to walk away from this summit with either extreme. either with nothing, in a sense having been defeated, proven that putin somehow out-negotiated him or with the deal that trump thinks is a good deal or for the russians but it is more than the structure will bear back in washington. and congress passes a law saying, you can't deliver on this deal. either one would be the failure that is a big problem for the kremlin as well. so i think it is high stakes for the russians too. >> should this meeting, kenneth, between trump and putin happen? should it be happening. >> i don't think it should be happening at all. >> why not?
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>> well because we've just seen from the indictments that the russians were very active in trying to interfere with our election. they wanted to delegitimize hillary clinton and to in essence help donald trump. and why do they want to do that? we can see from the last few days why they wanted to do that. they got riches beyond anything they could imagine. what did putin want? he wanted to separate the united states from its allies in europe. boy, trump did that with spades over the last few days. he wants to delegitimize the democratic process. we now have a president who doesn't believe in real law enforcement, who doesn't believe in independent judiciary or independent intelligence apparatus and who doesn't believe in truth in any sense and third what putin really wanted to do was to get someone who adored him and, boy, he got
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that in trump. trump adores him. so what the indictment shows is that there was a very vigorous russian real move and push to interfere with our elections and to help trump get the presidency. now i've heard of this program and heard lots of time, that didn't move very many votes. we don't know that. >> they said that wasn't the charge, to figure that out. >> that wasn't the charge. that is right. and we do know that lots of states were very close. and there are a lot of factors that go into something. and to delegitimize a candidate could be very powerful. >> let me read this to you and get your response. this is an article by sussan glasser from -- for the new yorker and she also is a contributor here on cnn. you were asked about the worst case scenario for the summit and you said putin's flattery policy shoved aside lost among all
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gushes of great, truly great personal relationship trump unlike any other presidents miraculously established. talk to us about that. >> well the fact is we saw the trump summit with the north korean president kim jong-un. and trump gave up lots of things. he got absolutely nothing from the north koreans except one thing which is the only thing he wants, enormous flattery. enormous -- >> a photo op. >> listen, i was with president reagan during his summits. he had a clear agenda what he wanted to accomplish for america. it was not for ronald reagan. he was not there to have someone say, you are the greatest human being that ever walked on earth since chester arm you are or anybody else. he was there for what was good for america and in the book that i've written and thank you for
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mentioning it, on sunday afternoon, the last moment of the summit reagan leaves the room and he comes back and he asked a group of us with his final offer in his hand, he goes around individually to us and said, is this good for america? sand yo -- and we all said, yes, yes. and he said thank you and then he left. he knew at that big moment that what he really wanted was good for america. it was not good for himself. and to have a president now who just wants flattery and just to get a -- a person -- and i think putin will be wonderful at this. to say, oh, my god, we have such a great rapport and just get along so well. that is all trump wants. >> different times now. matthew, rod rosenstein -- >> it was a different president. >> he briefed president trump on the indictment this week and we're not sure exactly when but i want you to listen to all of the things trump said about russia while he's been overseas
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this week. >> i hope that we're going to be able to get along with russia. i think that we probably will be able to. >> and frankly maybe everybody will have a good relationship with russia. >> just a loose meeting. it is not going to be big schedule. i don't think it should take a very long period of time. >> he's not my enemy. is he a friend? i don't know him well enough. but the couple of times i've gotten to meet him, we get along very well. you saw that. i hope we get along well. i think we get along well. he's not my enemy. and hopefully some day maybe he'll be a friend. it could happen. >> i hope that we'll be able to get along. >> i think getting along with russia also would be a very good thing. >> it is -- it is mind-boggling. but listen, matthew, he tweeted two days ago calling the russia investigation a witch hunt. why would he make these comments knowing the indictment would be handed down? >> this is the problem that we face now in doing something that is fundamental for u.s. national security. which is managing relations with
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the world's other major nuclear power. it is a relationship that we have to manage. it is not one that we can turn off in a peak of anger because they messed with our democracy, because if you are a democrat they supported maybe a candidate on the other side or because if you are a republican, they try to do other things that upset you. this can't be a partisanish -- issue for the united states. but both sides are making one. it was a attack on the united states. a president of any party needs to push back very hard against the russians and be crittal clear about what the consequences for doing this again in the run-up to november and all of the evidence is they still doing it and in any future election. but another point here is there is value and things that an ambassador would be good for america that could be achieved through dialogue with russia. here is the challenge. it is probably the case that this president in this summit
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meeting given all of the political context can't achieve those things right now. there are a lot of reasons why that is difficult for him, domestic politics is reason number one. you the thing about meetings at the presidential level, if you don't do them it becomes very difficult for government officials at lower levels to get work done. that is a principle that this administration recognizes as well and i think that is part of why they are setting up the supposi -- the summit to send a signal now it is okay to talk and that doesn't mean we make concessions but we negotiate the hard issues where we need the russians to come along. >> and thank you very much. i think it is your first time here and i appreciate have you on. would you come back. i would like to talk more about the difference between now and the reagan era when -- >> i will talk longer if you give me longer. >> that is great. but we have to go. thank you so much. we'll be right back. i'm all about my bed. this mattress is dangerously comfortable. when i get in, i
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the indictments filed today by robert mueller don't mention any americans by name but one individual with ties to the trump campaign is acknowledging the document probably refers to him. so i'll bring in legal analyst laura coates and harry litman, a former deputy attorney general. and let's talk about the people facing some trouble here as a result of the indictment. first roger stone after denying that the person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of donald trump, that is how it is written in the indictment, while communicating with guccifer 2.0 was him and roger stone said he finally admitted to chris cuomo how much that it was him he believes -- and how much trouble could he be in? >> well so far, according to mueller and the absence of an indictment for anyone really named as an american, it doesn't
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seem as though he's facing a great deal of legal peril at this point in time. however, just because somebody is not named in the indictment does not immunize them in some way from future litigation or prosecution. what is likely is the missing element of intent. these people knew and including roger stone who he was engaging with was perhaps a russian operative or somebody with that nefarious intent. clearly you knew they were up to no good but that missing link is not there and until they have it it is hard to evaluate how much legal jeopard he's in and his came keeps coming up again and again and there must be a reason for it. >> harry, you had a great observation on twitter earlier and you wrote, you said remember these choice twoeets of stone. trust me, it will soon be podesta's time in the barrel. wednesday hillary clinton is done. assange will educate the people. lock her up. think there might have possibly been some coordination?
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could those be a big problem for roger stone? >> a huge problem. look, this indictment specifically was on the russia side. but we've now built a bridge that is within inches of the u.s. campaign. and by the way, stone himself said oh, i was in fact in regular contact -- not with officials, but with trump himself. and of course these -- his knowing in advance, his continually predicting certainly suggests knowledge and not that far from intent. this indictment specifically does not go to those charges. but i think mueller is loaded for bear and as i said, i think stone has to get his affairs in order. i think he'll be indicted shortly. >> laura, the indictment identifies a candidate for congress who sought and received information from guccifer 2.0. is that illegal? what kind of trouble is that person in. >> if they are trying to collude and use a foreign agency to interfere with the elections and
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they are aware that is an illegal act and vying for incumbent for congress they are away of that particular law, trying to be a part of a legislative branch. so there is a violation. i'm curious as to why mueller has chosen not to name that particular candidate. maybe because it would obviously allow people to insinuate and infer there was absolute evidence beyond a reasonable doubt at some point to connect that person to a crime. and it may just be they don't have enough evidence built up before a grand jury to present an indictment. so we're all kind of waiting to see what is going to happen there. but certainly trying to do that is a crime. >> harry, after the indictment was announced today, trump's lawyer rudy guiliani, here is what he tweeted out. the indictment of rod rosenstein announced are good news for all americans, the russians are nailed, and no americans are involved and time for mueller to end this pursuit of the president and say president trump is completely innocent. is that what this indictment means? >> stunning. one more step in the complete
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demolition of the former reputation of giuliani. first of all, the indictment says expressly in paragraph 44 that americans were involved and then as he should know better than anybody, what it doesn't say -- it doesn't mean that it wasn't and it means it is for another indictment. that indictment i think is coming. but for him to suggest now that we're at the threshold that it is time to abandon the whole effort, we're talking about a really serious attack by russia military against free and fair elections. and to just say, let's close up shop now and not think about what happened on the american side, it is irresponsible. >> thank you both. have a great weekend. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. deal? i do. check out the new united explorer card. saving on this! saving on this! saving in here. rewarded! learn more at you shouldn't be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia's add-on advantage,
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from complaining about free trade to attacking immigrants, to leaders who welcomed them, donald trump sounded like steve bannon this week. he maybe out of the white house but he's still in power. joining me now, april ryan and josh mcgreen, the author of devil's bargain, steve bannon non donald trump and the storming of the presidency.
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i guess you might know some stuff about steve bannon, wouldn't you don mcgreen? good to be with both of you by the way. >> i know he's over in london, even though he's no longer a trump function fair, over there striking a lot of the statement notes he struck during the presidential campaign, if we could hear what he said in some of those conferences and interviews -- >> let's play it first, here it is. >> i just think it's changing the culture, i think it's a very negative thing for europe. i think it's very negative. i think having -- germany and i have a great relationship with angela merkel, great relationship with germany. i think it's very much our germany and very much other parts of europe. i know it's politically not necessarily correct to say that but i'll say it, and i'll say it
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loud. and i think they better watch themselves because you are changing culture. >> not just refugees or undocumented immigrants but all immigrants changing the culture. >> he's not just talking about immigrants but immigrants in the way of europe and germany in particular, and about them changing the curl and what the country stands for in the way trump is clearly implying is negative. that's the same argue he makes when he degrades mexicans in the u.s. >> i don't think it's even in codes, it's dog whistles. it's obvious. >> well, he didn't call them rapist like he did on american soil. i think it's similar. >> april, president trump defended monuments in similar ways. he said sad to see her culture and history being ripped apart.
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what does donald trump means when he uses the term "culture?" >> you know what he means, don. this is a president that says he's for all america but comes out saying things that stands for that group, the unforgotten white man. this president has stirred the pot when it comes to racial tensions. there are people that call him the divider and chief now. going back to the question that you asked about steve bannon, he's indirectly getting words from steve bannon again. steve bannon is part of the problem with this division issue. because when steve bannon left, there were some people in the white house, i will say that the president's children were saying, hey, steve bannon is gone now, we're going to get everything backing to. more inclusive. steve bannon is back indirectly
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through people like rebecca mercer. he's listening again. >> josh, steve bannon is over there in europe, promoting nationalism in various countries. is this the bannon influence or do they align on this issue? >> i do think they align. i think it's unfair of putting off this off on steve bannon, trump is capable of racial whistling himself. i do think bannon was one of the people early on who helped trump to understand he could forge a connection with a very loyal base of unhappy, largely white men who feel as though they've been displaced in american culture by other people who feel threatened by the rise of immigrants, by gay people, all the people that tend to gravitate toward the democratic
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coalition. but, trump, by signaling them as he has since the moment he came down to the elevator to announce his candidacy, can win their undying loyalty. if you talk to people in the white house, not just steve bannon, but people around him, trump is consumed with keeping that connection with his base, into his voters. he does that in the u.s., overseas, this isn't about foreign policy. it's being signaling to his voters he is politically incorrect, he's the same guy he's always been, he's not going to let these tricky european leaders sweet talk him into doing something that will cause him to break with his base. >> i got to run. >> to the detriment of what nation. >> i got to go. april, where ever your going tonight have fun. have a great weekend. we'll be right back. they spend at thousands of hotels. brrrr! i have the chills.
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