closed captioning brought to you by boom chicka pop. this is cnn tonight, i am don lemon. live with the breaking news for you. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani on the attack tonight, swinging around a lot of claim and what appears to be an attempt to distract and deflect omarosa's allegations and in the process making a bigger mess. claiming an interview with chris

cuomo that donald trump knew nothing in advance of the clinton campaign e-mails leaked by wikileaks and at the same time claiming that if he did, it would not be a problem anyway and claiming against the evidence that president trump never talked to james comey about michael flynn. thinks a smart strategy representing the president who just may find himself sitting down across robert mueller later. jennifer rogers, a former prosecutor and attorney bradley moss, good evening to both of you. tonight rudy giuliani was asked about omarosa's claim. >> omarosa also claims that trump knew about the campaign e-mails before wikileaks released them to the public. rudy giuliani says this. watch this. >> if she has some piece of proof that demonstrates that the

president was aware of what e-mails they had, what would that mean? >> 100% confident that she does not. i know he did not know. >> if he did? >> i know beyond being his lawyer. >> if he knew, is it a problem? >> no. >> no? >> i am not going to get into the hypotheticals. >> he did not know. he didn't know but if he did it would not be a problem, does this defense makes sense, making it better or worse for the president? >> these are legal defenses. these sorts of arguments are made in front of judges, you would say you know a, the facts support it but b if they don't the law supports it. sometimes it makes sense and sometimes the judge will rule for you on the legal question. i don't know if it makes a lot of sense in the court of public opinion. no one wants to hear, oh, he didn't do it and everyone if he did it, it is okay. >> let's make no mistake about

this. what rudy giuliani is doing is planting seeds that are not true and don't make sense. >> absolutely. he's snack in tnot in the court. when that happens, things will change dramatically. he's a spin guy and that's his purpose. >> here is more from rudy giuliani. >> i know she was lying because i was on the campaign more than she was. i was closer than she was. about june to november, i was with him 24 hours a day. the first wikileaks exposure he was surprised. he asked me do you think there will be more. i told him i have no idea. i heard some reporters on cnn or fox or i don't know where that there is a practice putting tout weakest ones first and he builds it up and builds it up. i said i think this guy may have more than that.

>> so bradley. the president's attorney is he a witness to a significant event here? >> he's making himself into a witness. s t this is rudy giuliani, he's making himself to be a material witness to numerous rinehapartse campaign who would have been there. he's putting himself in the position of possibly getting contradicted both in the public and proceeding on the facts. july of 2016, donald trump was talking about russia, i hope you can find the 30,000 e-mails and he's talking about the idea that there is going to be a huge releaser and a huge discovery and he got some big bomb shells coming up. does this prove that he knew in advance? no, of course not. anything omarosa says should be

taken with a massive grain of salt. the steps by rudy giuliani are not helping his client accepting the political base eating this up everyday. >> trump continues the attack on sessions if we had a real attorney general, this witch hunt never would have been started. the fact that he has not fired jeff sessions. so listen to rudy giuliani, he talks about sessions, listen. >> so clinton went to two people, he got two of them. >> and donald trump put sessions in there who was supposedly his best friend. >> it would be better -- >> jeff sessions. pete sessions is congressman in texas. >> remember the first two clinton people had new eastern span a nanny problem. >> i don't know what the hell

he's doing now. >> jeff sessions had nanny problems? >> he should not have gone to the president without. the president is far from an ethics expert. sessions did what he should have done and the president has to live with that or not, he can fire him. >> you said bradley that anything in your last comment that omarosa should be taken with a huge or massive grain of salt. do you think that someone like omarosa could be a key witness in this investigation given her role in the trump campaign? >> only if she, one, has proofs or some other audio recording. she appears to record everything and especially in the situation room which is a huge patrrotoco. look, omarosa was once one of the toppest tvvil ville yaans o

time. >> i want to put up this poll, jennifer. it is a cnn poll. two third s two-thirds of americans think that mueller should wrap up his investigation and what do you think this says of the mood of the country and the majority and people saying it is time to wrap it up. >> everybody wants to wrap it up for different reasons. republicans want it to be gone. democrats want it to be done because they think the mueller report is explosive and damaging to the president. everybody is ready for it to be done. these things take time and we need to let mueller do his work. he has not spoken to roger stone yet, for example, there is still more to do. >> don't you think both sides

are setting themselves up for maybe something that's anticlematic. because we don't know what mueller is going to do and the senate. we don't know of any collusions or no one knows what he's doing. people think that it is going to drive the president out of office because of something mueller did -- that may be a problem. >> i think you are right but people are waiting and one of the problems with mueller investigation is he can't really talk and everyone spins things in their own head. >> bradley and jennifer, appreciate your time. thank you very much. i want to bring in our congress eric swole, good evening sir, good to have you on. >> hey don. >> he says james comey lied about the conversation where he says the president told him to lay off flynn which comey

testified in front of congress under penalty of perjury documented at the time with memos, who has more credibility in this case? >> don in america, we believe the people who raise their right hand and goes under oath. director comey has done that. the president is still unwilling. as the evidence stands, i think america trusts james comey. the credibility with five guilty pleas and two dozen indictments and a verdict that's about to come in the manafort's case is with bob mueller. >> today omarosa claims that president trump knew ahead of time that wikileaks would release the e-mails of hillary clinton's. she did not provide a shred of

proof. is that credible? what are your thoughts on that? >> you can say that again about her credibility because she's certainly a situation and so i don't know a warrant is taken into the situation room to fire her. what she's alleging of donald trump knew beforehand matches up some of the evidence we heard in the investigation which was that there was a deep obsession among the trump team to understand just exactly whether the 30,000 deleted hillary clinton's e-mails were out there or not. that's something we want to learn more about. i would not bank any cases on omarosa's words. >> rudy giuliani says omarosa's words were untrue. and he claims he was with trump when the e-mails released. >> he's certainly conflicted and i also just don't believe what most of what he says, he keeps on changing the version of the events because the original

version starts to look more guilty. >> i want to put up the polls again, two-thirds of americans want mueller to finish this investigation by midterm. that's big. has rudy giuliani been successful creating a deadline for this investigation, do you think? >> i hope not. i understand why americans believe that. right now this president because of all of his actions have basically taken our country into a trump-slump. aside from the russian investigation, healthcare costs are going up and wages are going down and because of just rapid corruption of the white house, people are capacity ra-- >> i will say this don. when you obstruct justice and lie, the investigation is going to take longer. he can actually bring this to a conclusion.

>> 70% say in the same poll that trump should testify in mueller's investigation which would help move the investigation along, what does it tell you? >> it tells me that most americans believe what donald trump said about hillary clinton. if you take the fifth amendment, you are doing what the mob does. if he want to prove the american people that he's above the mob, he should go forward to mueller and raise his right hand and come clean to the american people. >> the white house is defending president trump calling omarosa a dog. they insisted the insult is not about race. >> local man proves he's not racist by calling a black woman who called him racist a dog. talk to me about that. >> he insulted maxine waters and my colleagues.

he knows what he's doing. senator jeff flake tweeted out today, calling a woman a dog is wrong and other republicans should speak up. too silence. no republicans spoke up. don, i called on jeff flake, time to come over and switch parties. if your colleagues don't think it is wrong to call an african-american woman a dog, you should think who you would your colleague to be. >> what did he say? >> he has not responded. >> actions speak louder than tweets, don, we got a big open ten on our side. >> congressman, thank you for your time >> is there a secret tape of donald trump using "n" word while he was on "the apprentice." omarosa dlclaims that she heardt but offers no proofs. we'll dig into the feedbacacts,.

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called him to say there are no tapes of trump using "n" word. >> we reached out to the creator. tonight cnn national correspondent athena jones sorts out the tale of the tapes for us. >> it is a tape that may not exist. >> a story that won't die. the mythical recording has never been released publicly but omarosa manigault-newman says she has heard the tape and in it donald trump uses the "n" word. >> it is an allegation the president strongly denies. tweeting the show's creator mark b barnette called him to say there is no tape where i used such a terrible word. i don't have that word in my vocabulary and never have. she made it up.

jackson himself says in 2016 he me never heard trump used the "n" word but trump's actions like tauting the false claim that president trump w president obama was not a u.s. citizen but says he held a racist view. what i did get from donald trump of what i saw through the birther movement. after the release of the "access hollywood" on which trump was heard about grabbing women genita genitals. a former producer tweeted, i assure you when it come to the trump tapes there are far worse and trump critic, comedian tom arnold, told kirl in late 2016. >> he says every bad thing ever. every dirty and every offensive racist thing ever. >> but arnold has not backed up his claim by releasing the

supposed tapes in his possess n possession. when clinton supporter david brock promised $5 million to cover the legal cost of anyone who would leak the tapes, he found no takers. while not answering the question directly, kellyanne conway seems to acknowledge discussing the rumors with trump during the campaign >> i talked about it with his campaign. it is my job to tell the president every rumor and feedbacks or fiction. >> in her new book, manigault-newman wrote about how to handle the fallout should such a tape to be released. no one on the call heard the alleged tape at the time. >> katrina pierson says he said it. >> did that happen? >> sounds like she's writing a script for a mew viovie.

this morning, manigault-newman released a snippet of the tape. >> she had a conversation with trump about whether he ever used the racial slur. >> i said, well, can you think of any time that this may have happened and he said no. >> well, that's not true. how do you think i should handle it, i told him omarosa what exactly saw said. depending on what scenario you are talking about and why don't you put it to bed >> he said it and he's embarrassed. >> a new segment pierson acknowledged there were rumors

in the campaign but it was circulated by omarosa and her alone. athena jones, cnn, new york. >> thank you, athena for that. >> president trump claims the "n" word is not even in his vocabulary, i am going to ask my next guest if he believes that. sfx: [cell phone dialing]

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is not in his vocabulary, do you believe that? >> no, i don't. just based on his actions and the way he has talked about african-americans in the past and we didn't need the "access hollywood" to verify that he says vulgar and crude things about women and we don't need the "n" word tape to verify that he says racist things about african-americans. don, unfortunately, there are a lot of people of his base that does not matter to them. they are currents of the results than the rhetoric. i don't see his numbers changing. we have a liar on the one side and a liar on the other. i don't think we'll get to the bottom of this but tape or not, i don't think his bases will change. >> do you think he said the word? you don't think it matters if there is a tape or not. >> not to his base. he campaigns using the same type of rhetoric he's using now and

he won. look he's got the 42% approval rating by the people across this country. that's higher than reagan and carter and clinton at that time during their presidency and a lot of people are not looking so much of his tone but at the results he has in the white house and that's the most important thing to them. >> mark, we heard from both katrina pierson and glenn patton, omarosa says she taped the conversation. it is plausible, what do you this i? >> anything is plausible when you talk about omarosa and donald trump. e everything he says and done reflected of a view of ideology of consistently using the "n" word and if he does not use the

"n" word but he certainly treats people with the "n" word. >> i am not surprised that he uses it a whole lot. >> are we surprised that we are having this conversation that we have in the past 24 hours. >> yes, and no. >> this is my question to you, i am surprised though. alice, sarah sanders said today that she can't guarantee that we'll hear president trump saying the "n" word on a tape. what sort of reality are we living in? >> an alternative reality. i can't imagine under what universe i would ever work with someone that i can look them in the face can you guarantee me if i go out there and say this to the world that i am not saying something that's factually inaccurate and to be able to have a situation where that's

the case it is unfortunate. and, furthermore part of what we heard today was pushing this off and the highlight on this on the media saying that the use of the medium that the media is using is furthering this narrative and the reality is the president has tweeted about this eight times in the past 24 hours and he has 53 twitter followers, that's an aggressive use of his flplatfor that further this narrative. i would rather talk something much more important to the american people like jobs and economy and reality star books that filled with in accuracies but this is what we are. >> this whole idea of omarosa thing and taping and that's all really absurd. the issue of racism is an issue that's really important as well. can i ask you about mark barnette, the president assured

him there was no tape. he put up this tweet yesterday and he called them and said there is no tapes and he called omarosa wacky and deranged. >> that's hard to believe. to act like it is a foreign concept, nyou know to donald trump. all the people who are close to him and spilling the beans of his internal working of his business prior entering d.c. for him to faint outrage of that level is unbelievable. i believe that either donald trump, there is no tape or donald trump has paid someone to say there is for tapes or he's lying. >> or he has not responded >> i don't know - i am not saying that donald trump has said it or not, donald trump affirm th affirming it does not happen,

his words mean nothing to me because he consistently lie on twitter and on a 24-hour period. we don't know. >> in 2005, he was on "the howard stern" show, she talked about how he wants to have an apprentice show with blacks verses white. >> there was a concept that was throne out by one person, nine blacks against nine whites. >> this i like. >> and it would be -- >> it would beni nine blacks against nine whites, all highly educated and very strong people. do you like it robin? >> well, i think you will have a riot. >> it will be the highest rating show in television. >> let me ask you a couple of questions. i am pretty good with this stuff. >> very dark black or light skin

black. >> sortmeassortments of blacks. >> how many blonds? >> probably none. >> would that set off a racial world in this country. >> i don't think it would. i think that it would be handled very beautifully by me. >> by him. >> by him? >> listen it is howard stern if you ever listen to the howard stern's show, it is a free for all. there is a concept of pitting blacks verses whites on a reality show, alice. >> yeah, it is unfortunate. look, we'll give him the fact that this was well before i am sure he considered running for president and he was more of a reality tv star want-to-be than anything else. that tape really is pretty damming in my view when he's trying to offset criticisms about whether or not he has said the "n" word. and the fact that we are here today talking about this after

24 hours is not a surprise. we have two money grubbing back stabbing fame staking reality stars who are no longer a member of society and here we are having this conversation. >> including the president himself. >> i want to make sure this is the president you supported, right? >> yes, that's true. i supported his policy and i voted for him. i wish that we are not having this conversation. >> are you stunned of what he said? >> do you think it reflects the man he is today? >> are they going to be white skin or black skin? >> an assortments. >> the way he talks about them is deeply troubling but not surprising coming from donald trump. this is part in part of his presidency. >> i will say this don, not that it makes it better, he's a mutual -- he's across the board

blacks and whites and men wom, n insulting people. >> he insults everyone. >> it is different saying a white guy getting fired like a dog or calling a woman a dog. >> thank you both, i appreciate it. history is being made tonight. a vermont democrat will be the first transgender major party nominee more governor. there it is. we'll talk to her right after this. thank you so much for joining us. we'll see you on the other side of the break. eep tathem. he skipped orientation for the beach? he takes after me. join t-mobile, buy an iphone 8, get an iphone 8 on us.

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here is the breaking news, christine hallquist won the democratic nominee in vermont. i am joined now by christine hallquist, congratulations, thank you for coming on. >> thank you for having me. do you see this is a victory for all transgender americans, all americans? >> yes, i do see it as a victory for all americans. it is no surprise to me living in vermont, i love vermont and this is pretty typical for what vermont is. vermont has been a loving state, a leader in civil rights and we'll continue to show the rest of the country what good democracy looks like. >> you are a former energy company executive, right?

tell me why you went into politics? >> my passion was to show how the electric grid can solve climate change. we got to the point where we are 96% carbon free and we are offering incentives to move away heating and cooling transportatio transportations. for five years so that was my passion but when i look at what's happening of the rest of the country and our state, november 9th of 2016 really changed everything. i really probably spent 2017 in a bit of denial but if i look at what's happening in vermont, we are being impacted by what's happening by the rest of the country and our governor is using the same tactics as the national gop. >> you are talking about the incumbent phil scott, right? >> yes, i am. >> why should they vote for you instead of him? >> well, you know, our governor,

his motto is no new taxes and of course we are going to -- he's kind of attacking our public education system. now, i am not a person that talks about taxes because certainly being physically responsible is important. but, i want a leader who has a long-term vision. a 20-year vision, how are we going to get more food on the table and how are we going to raise the living conditions for all the people on the lowest economic ladder. >> i think we need to have leaders to have visions beyond their gubernatorial shift and their own life span. we need to have long-term visions of what our states are going to look like. >> you ran as a transgender woman, you are an lgbtq candidate running in this cycle. how important is it to have a seat in politics?

>> i like to talk about all marginalized community. one of the things i learned in my transition, one of the things to talk about the transgender and the other thing is experiencing it. if i look at what's happening a t the national level, you know there is a systematic attack and it is going to start with the most marginalize of the communities. the fact that our president has gone after the transgender community is no surprise. i think everybody should be afraid. >> other democrats like alexander and acosta cortez in new york also has a story. is this the right time for new voices and ideas? >> absolutely. i think in the physics world, every action there is opposing reaction. people like myself who would not be in politics rising all over,

i think that's what healthy democracy looks like. i am hoping that years from now we can look back and say is american democracy wonderful? we survived it. >> you talked about vermont and why you think vermont is the right place to show the country. what do you want people to know about transgender people that you have this opportunity right now? >> well, i want people and the rest of the country to know that we are a small percentage of the population but you know that really, i would want people to look beyond that. you know many people have not met a transgender person and i understand that it is different. but, at the end of the day, we can contribute to the betterment of the world. when you think about it, if we write people off because of who they are, we may be writing off the next cure for cancer or the cure for climate change. >> christine, thank you for

joining us, good luck, okay? >> thank you. when we come back, the trump campaign taking legal steps against omarosa claiming that she violated a non-disclosure agreement. is this the kind of thing that's as business as usual for trump? ! like my father before... [telephone ring] like my father before... ahoy-hoy! as long as people talk too loudly on the phone, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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contributor, michael dantonio. she's the author of the book, the book is called "all alone on the 68th floor." good evening to both of you. michael, i am going to start with you, i talk about the atmosphere around people are being paranoia and everyone involved in the saga, blind and shifting stories inside the white house and aids are guarding the next omarosa's tapes. is this usual for donald trump? >> as far as i can tell, yes, it is. >> he's a paranoia individual and believes in conspiracy theories and tries to manipulate reality to reflect his favorite scenarios. he's going to have around him people becoming quite paranoia as they try to deal with him and deal with each other.

there is going to be so many cross currents and lies told in various directions that it is not a surprise to me that someone was recording these conversations. there is probably a great many recording devices being used in these encounters because people don't know what they have to prove tomorrow. >> he's suing omarosa from talking and releasing any tapes. is that a standard tactic in trump's play book? >> absolutely. >> and to have the non disclosure agreement? >> there were no non-disclosure agreement when i was there. if somebody that got let go or -- since i was not let go, i didn't have any. >> assuming you said that i iis -- >> i have to be the plaintiff and he would sue.

>> one thing is important to remember is that threats are so much apart of the dynamic here. this is a man who threatens everybody. he threatens the nations and nato and threatens canada and mexico. he also threatens individuals. when tony schwartz starts talking about his engagement of the deal, he threatens him and he had michael cohen threatens me and he makes people crazy around him because he prefers it that way. he prefers people to be insecure. >> you said, michael, that omarosa is the latest defector of trump. what do you mean by that? >> by now it is become a personality cult around the president. this is true in many administrations but not to this extent. people are judged upon their

loyalty and not their competence. and so the president makes ease demands and you are supposed to deny reality. you are supposed to lie if necessary. if you stand up for yourself, you are likely to have your legs cut out from under you. so this is very much like a cult, he's got people running scared and the end will come when so many of the defectors start to tell the truth and regain their dignity d powand p and omarosa is doing that. >> why is omarosa and michael cohen, why do people feel the need to tape this president? >> i think they know that they can't trust him. >> he'll throw anyone under the bus to protect himself. you got to be a certain kind of person to want to go out and tape your boss but you got to be in that environment. as michael says it was a whole environment of deceits and nobody is challenging him. very different from what i was

used to many years ago. >> especially to record your boss but also in the white house, in the situation room. that wraps up it up. >> can you believe we are having this conversation? someone recording someone and the press secretary can't definitively say there is no tapes of the president using the "n" word. >> i am not surprise. >> why is that? >> because the way he carries on. when i worked for him, he did disparage racism and nationalities. he did disparage black people. >> did he use racial words? >> i don't remember. i remember him talking about the germans and the italians and the jews this and blacks that. it was common. >> trump is now planning michael, he's opening up another

legal battle. this one is now against omarosa. he's currently tied up in a number of other legal battles. omarosa's investigation and stormy daniels and the list goes on and michael cohen, is this another battle the president want? >> well, this again is a threat. i would be surprised to see actually him following through of omarosa. this is a display more than anything else. he wants to get everybody attention, the idea is hey, i am the biggest and scariest person around. i am going to get your attention by doing this often. the paper are not vital. so i don't think we are going to see them squaring off and i don't think omarosa has a thing

to worry about. >> real quickly, i have to ask you, this no guarantee that there is a tape that you know exists or does not exist, how do you think the president reacted when he heard that remark from sarah? >> i can't guarantee that it does not exist. >> he's probably upset about that. i imagine he wanted her to say that it does not exist and impossible. >> why do you think she didn't say that? >> i can't imagine. the truth never held her back. i can't imagine why. i think maybe they're all afraid that there is something out there and he's not telling them that. >> thank you both, i appreciate it. >> thanks for watching. our coverage continues. the digital divide is splitting this country. we have parents who are trying to get their kids off of too much social media and computers, and then we have parents who would only hope their children have access.

middle school is a really key transition point, right. the stakes start changing. students begin to really start thinking about their futures. what i like about verizon's approach is that it's not limited to just giving kids new tools, it's really about empowering educators to teach in different ways, and exposing kids to more active forms of learning. giving technology is not a total solution. teaching technology, now that is.

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