tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN October 17, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
to remain that way, wolf, for a long time. >> what an awful, awful situation, a brutal situation and we'll continue to follow this story. matt rivers, thank you so much for reporting on this. we are grateful to you and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. "erin burnett outfront" with jake tapper tonight starts right jake tapper tonight starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com exclusive new details on secretary of state mike pompeo's meeting with the saudi crown prince, what really happened behind closed doors. plus, "out front's" race of the day, cruz versus o'rourke. will beto o'rourke's new attack strategy work or is it too little too late? and the secret service stopped him from questioning jared kushner on a plane last night and he has the video to prove it. cbs correspondent errol barnett is my guest. breaking news tonight, exclusive details, just coming in to cnn about the meeting
between secretary of state mike pompeo and crown prince mohammed bin salman or mbs yesterday. pompeo back in the u.s. about to land at joint base andrews, the photo op was all smiles but behind closed doors, our jamie gangal reports it was anything but, according to a source. pompeo said, by the source, to be direct and blunt and demanding the saudis get the investigation done and quickly and that every fact must get out. this, of course, after the saudi government for days now adamant that it had nothing to do with the disappearance and apparent murder of jamal khashoggi, a "washington post" contributor and critic of the saudi government. but is the saudi denial believable at all? cnn has identified one of the suspects in the disappearance and possible killing of khashoggi. and he has close ties with crown prince mbs. here are the two men back in march during a visit to m.i.t. in boston.
they were also seen together in houston back in april, touring homes that were flooded after hurricane harvey. is that something secretary pompeo asked the crown prince about when he was prompting him to conduct his investigation? cnn special correspondent jamie gangal just breaking this news for us. jamie, what more are you learning about what secretary pompeo told the crown prince? >> reporter: well, jake, as you just said, the smiles ended at the end of that photo op, and i'm told that secretary pompeo told mbs, the crown prince, in no uncertain terms that he had to, quote, own the situation, that every fact was going to get out, and he made it clear to the saudis that they had to get their investigation done very quickly and then he stressed, quote, that time is short and that the saudis, quote, have to deal with the people involved and they have to deal with them sharply. i'm told that secretary pompeo
was blunt and direct and told the saudis that if they don't, that, quote, the u.s. will have to deal with this, that he told the crown prince that the u.s. will take action because the world will demand it, and even said that the president's hand will be forced also because of how this is seen around the world. finally, jake, i think this is the most striking moment of the reporting. i was given -- secretary pompeo told the crown prince that whether or not he knew about it or didn't know about it beforehand, it's his responsibility. he has to own it and that, quote, his future as king is at stake. it doesn't get much more direct than that, jake. >> all right, jamie gangel, thank you so much for that reporting. we appreciate it. "outfront" now, leon panetta.
secretary panetta, always good to see you. you heard jamie's reporting, a source familiar with the meeting saying that pompeo told mbs in no uncertain terms he has to own the situation, have to get the investigation done quickly and if they don't do it, the u.s. will have to deal with this. i guess my first question for you is, do you buy that behind the scenes, pompeo conveyed this to the saudis? >> well, i think that secretary pompeo probably did present a very firm message to the saudis. you know, i know mike pompeo from his work at the cia, and you know, i found him to be a pretty direct guy when it comes to getting to the issues, and i think he recognizes that the whole world is watching right now, and the saudis have a clear responsibility to present the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth to the world as to what happened to mr. khashoggi. >> so, explain to -- i understand that diplomacy and what goes on behind closed doors is very different than what goes on in front of the cameras, but why would pompeo be pushing behind the scenes, as jamie gangal says a source tells her he did, when president trump is seemingly so credulous, openly, about saudi denials? >>el says a source tells her he did, when president trump is seemingly so credulous, openly, about saudi denials? >> well, i think mike pompeo understands that this is an important issue that has to be dealt with directly, and i think president trump kind of plays these issues by ear, by his own concerns without really considering, oftentimes, the consequences. mike pompeo has to worry about the consequences here, because if, in fact, the saudis did what
is suspected and killed khashoggi, there are going to be consequences, and mike pompeo is going to have to head up those consequences. so, i think he's much more serious than the president, frankly, about how to deal with this issue directly. >> as somebody who worked with the saudis as someone who ran the pentagon and the cia and when you were the chief of staff of bill clinton, do you think there's any chance, realistically speaking, that this operation happened and neither the crown prince nor king salman knew anything about it? >> you know, it's -- it's -- it would be very difficult to have a credible explanation that involved the crown prince not knowing what took place here. just look at the facts that we know. khashoggi goes into the consulate, he doesn't come out. there are two teams of saudis, some involving the security
detail related to the crown prince who were present, plus a forensic doctor who's trained in autopsies, plus a bone saw. none of that, i think, would take place without permission from the highest levels in the saudi government. we know what the turks are saying about what took place. they say they have audio and videos. we haven't seen them but that indicates that a gruesome murder took place within that consulate. and lastly, look, this is two weeks now since this happened, two weeks, and it took place in a saudi consulate. there is no question in my mind that the saudis know exactly what happened there, and that they've been stonewalling for two weeks, and the time has come for them to tell the truth to the world as to what took place. >> it's so brazen, what it appears to have happened. and i'm just wondering, mbs, the
crown prince, is said to be so savvy, so sophisticated, so brilliant, if ruthless. what would make him think that he could get away with doing something like this or ordering something like this to be done on -- within the borders of another country that he doesn't control the cameras at the airport and he doesn't control the cameras outside various embassies. why would he think he could get away with it? >> well, i think it involves understanding the saudi mentality. i think, you know, obviously, the crown prince is really interested, i think, in trying to promote reforms and to bring saudi arabia into the 21st century. but it's very difficult for them to operate with one foot in the 21st century and the other foot
in the 15th century where they basically go after people and do the kinds of things that we saw take place. so, there's kind of that double standard that is involved here. and i think they went ahead, they probably viewed khashoggi as an enemy, and went ahead and did what they did, but i think they have to understand that this is the 21st century, and that those kinds of things cannot take place without consequences. the relationship with saudi arabia is going to change as a result of what took place here. >> leon panetta, always good to see you, sir. thanks so much. >> good to be with you. "outfront" next, breaking news, michael cohen, the president's former fixer, meeting with state and federal investigators. what they're looking for from the president's former fixer. also, breaking, expectations growing tonight that robert mueller is getting ready to deliver key findings from the russia investigation, possibly
within weeks. and the man taking on republican ted cruz comes out swinging. >> he's dishonest. it's why the president called him lying ted, and it's why the nickname stuck. >> but will the attacks work? stay with us. when did you see the sign? when i needed to jumpstart sales. build attendance for an event. help people find their way. fastsigns designed new directional signage. and got them back on track. get started at fastsigns.com. tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.
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we have some breaking news for you. michael cohen meeting today with prosecutors investigating president trump's family business and his charity organization. that's according to people familiar with the meeting. here's cohen leaving his lawyer's office today after the meeting. this just one day after president trump attacked his former lawyer in an interview with the associated press, claiming that cohen lied about a hush money payment cohen said he made at trump's direction. cnn's senior justice correspondent evan perez is "outfront" and evan, what else can you tell us about this meeting? >> reporter: well, this is a meeting, jake, at michael cohen's attorney's office and this is a meeting that occurred with prosecutors from the southern district of new york as well as the attorney general's office in new york state. now, these -- both these offices are still doing investigations into the trump family business and organization and so michael cohen spent, as you saw, a few hours there. he's already previously spent hours talking to those prosecutors from the southern district of new york as well as the prosecutors from robert
mueller's office who everybody's interested to know what he's providing behind the scenes as part of this cooperation agreement or whatever cooperation he's providing to try to get a better deal when he gets sentenced later this year. >> all right, evan, stay with me. also joining me now, we have with us "new york times" white house reporter julie hish feld davis and a former aide to the trump campaign and paul manafort who is now cooperating with the mueller probe. let me start with you. how significant do you think it is that cohen had this meeting today and were you president trump, how worried would you be? >> i would be very worried if i was president trump and it's because this is somebody who was right at his side and we even heard in that little excerpt from the tapes how unguarded trump was talking to him and he's used to letting his hair down, talking freely, musing about things, that's what makes somebody like cohen so dangerous. he's right there and they're not planning litigation. they're not planning to defend against an investigation.
they're just talking so he's going to be forthright. >> and when your colleagues at the a.p. sat down with president trump and asked about michael cohen, boy, the hurt feelings are still right there on the surface. president trump lashing out, still we saw this in the immediate aftermath of when michael cohen's office was first learned of the extent to which they were going into his office, into his files, into all of the information that he has, which is huge about president trump's business and personal affairs over the last, you know, more than a decade, and even though he said to the a.p. yesterday that michael cohen lied and that, you know, he really just had a bit part in my business, i mean, we all know that this was donald trump's legal fixer. he did all manner of things for donald trump, and so one of the reasons he's so angry about this is because he knows that michael cohen knows a lot of stuff and he also knows now, given the plea agreement from a couple of months, that he's willing to provide some of what he knows to investigators to save himself.
>> and implicate president trump in those things. evan, you also have some new reporting tonight on the state of the mueller investigation. repeated meetings between his team and paul manafort, also about when mueller might issue his report. what are you hearing? >> well, yeah. so, this is supposed to be a quiet hearing because we're leading up to the midterm elections in november, but behind the scenes, the mueller team has been very busy. they brought in the paul manafort for at least nine interviews, hours that they've spent with the special counsel's office now getting information from paul manafort. we don't know exactly what he's provided, but we know that among the questions he's being asked is about interactions with russians over the years, and so that goes, obviously, in addition to the cooperation that we now are seeing from michael cohen, we know that behind the scenes talks have intensified between the special counsel's office and the mueller -- and the president's legal team. they've now received questions that they're trying to provide written answers to the take home
test that we always talk about, and then there's people associated with roger stone who have come in, they have been subpoenaed, some of them have been having talks about providing more information as well as we are team that sits at the courthouse has seen multiple interactions between the mueller team and the judges that oversee the grand jury to try to make sure, you know, whatever testimony they're trying to line up. so, we know that there's a ton of activity coming that this seems to indicate that after the midterms, the mueller team is going to gear up with additional indictments. we expect that a report will be sent up to rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, perhaps in december. we don't know, obviously, when exactly mueller will report whatever he has to report, but we're going to -- we're expecting, jake, at least november and december to be extremely busy. >> just to be clear, nine meetings between mueller and manafort? nine since this conviction? >> exactly. >> what do you make of that, nine meetings and a pending report possibly after the
midterms? >> they've got a lot to talk about. and that's the kind of intense interaction you're going to have when you're a cooperator. there's nothing you can hold back. they're going to ask everything you possibly know. i think it's interesting with this much grand jury activity, though, as evan is pointing out, it seems like they'd be hard pressed to do a final report even that quickly on that timetable, so it's possible there's going to be more than one report. i mean, i suppose there even could be some sort of interim report, but it just seems like there's a lot of activity going on to actually finalize something. i think it's a little bit of a victory if the president does not have to submit to that interview. i think that's something his legal team has been working very hard to avoid, and so i mean, that might be a bit of a kudos to them that they avoided that, but of course mueller's report is then free to say that the president wouldn't meet with us so this is what we have and then the president's free to spin it to say, we would have wanted to meet with them, but they weren't reasonable. >> and julie, obviously, the president's legal team, rudy giuliani included, talking about how much they want this to wrap
up so i guess if they hear that report's going to be issued after the midterms, they might be happy about it but then they hear that nine visits between manafort and mueller, that wouldn't fill me with confidence. >> they've been eager for this to wrap up as soon as possible for more than a year and had been telling the president as early as last year at this time that it's just around the corner, thanksgiving maybe, and you know, here we are a year later. i think for sure, they want this tom to an end but there are still so many unknowns. evan's right. it's been a quiet period. they've been quieter than unusual on the mueller team because of the approach of the midterms but that also means that apart from the back and forth that giuliani and the rest of the legal team are having on the president's actual answers to questions that they're submitting, they don't really know what they're dealing with, so they're seeing things like that, that manafort is extensively cooperating with the investigation, and they're wondering what more is going to come forth. and also, whether it's going to be the final word, whether what we see in november potentially or december is going to be the beginning or the end. >> right. >> and that's the important part
is that they have no idea what paul manafort is saying behind those -- behind the scenes in those nine interviews. >> you remind me of -- it reminds me of the movie cliche, it's quiet. too quiet. that's what they're thinking in the white house. evan, julie, shan, thank you so much. coming up, "outfront," democrat beto o'rourke building a massive war chest to take on ted cruz but will money make up for how far behind he is in the polls? plus, the secret service shutting down a cbs news reporter from trying to ask jared kushner a question. >> i'm with cbs. any comment? >> that reporter, errol barnett will be my guest. stay with us.
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a flake. follows a fiery debate between o'rourke and cruz, a debate in which we saw o'rourke throw some real punches for the first time. >> he's dishonest. it's why the president called him lying ted and it's why the nickname stuck. >> it's clear congressman o'rourke's pollsters have told him to come out on the attack. >> the big question, of course, will beto o'rourke's strategy work? ed is out front with our race of the day. >> senator ted cruz. >> reporter: ted cruz has mastered the postcard size political punch. >> if you want a big government gun-grabbing liberal, well, the democrats have given you one. >> reporter: the rapid fire jabs at democrat beto o'rourke are designed to deflate the el paso congressman's soaring campaign. >> on job-killing regulations, he's for them, i'm against them. guns. i'm for them, he's against them.
on taxes, he's for them, i'm against them. >> reporter: in the last few weeks, senator cruz has unleashed a wave of television ads criticizing o'rourke, painting him as dangerous and radically liberal. o'rourke has been hesitant to fire back directly, saying he prefers to follow the positive path that has brought him to this point so far. >> beto o'rourke is no friend of texas energy. >> reporter: the cruz television campaign and laser-focused message seem to have halted o'rourke's forward march in the polls. a cnn poll shows o'rourke 7 points behind. >> beto o'rourke wants to be a senator. >> reporter: for weeks, as o'rourke has literally run and barn stormed through every corner of the state, we've asked him how he would respond to the cruz campaign's criticisms, which seem to be working. >> are you worried that those critiques and those things are going to stick? >> yeah. >> are you fighting back? >> i think people are sick of the pettiness and the partisanship and the smallness. >> reporter: can you take the
gloves off and fight a little bit tougher and dirtier if you have to? >> we're fighting for a positive future for this country. we're not fighting against anyone. it's not against another party. >> reporter: but with early voting starting next week, o'rourke is shedding the nice guy approach. >> senator cruz is not going to be honest with you. he's going to make up positions and votes that i've never held or have ever taken. he's dishonest. it's why the president called him lying ted and it's why the nickname stuck. >> reporter: democratic strategist harold cook worked for ann richards, up with of the last democrats to hold statewide office in texas. cook says o'rourke must sharpen his attacks before it's too late. >> you can be high-minded while you're drawing a clear contrast between yourself and your opponent. >> reporter: beto hasn't done enough of that. >> he hasn't done it yet and he needs to get on it because it's time. >> reporter: an anti-ted cruz pac has rolled out an ad
roasting ted cruz for cozying up to president trump. >> if somebody called my wife a dog and said my daddy was in on the kennedy assassination, i wouldn't be kissing their ass. >> reporter: o'rourke has rarely talked about ted cruz and president trump in his campaign speeches, but in recent days, that has changed. >> we need a full-time senator. >> reporter: he ripped into cruz for shutting down the federal government and rolling back health care protections and even unleashed his sharpest criticism yet of the texas senator for campaigning with the president. >> senator cruz will put his political ambition, his prospects in the next election ahead of anything else. including his family, including those he's sworn to represent here in texas. texas has lost its voice in the u.s. senate in senator cruz. >> reporter: the showdown will continue for another three weeks in a race that's captivated a state not used to this kind of political clash.
and jake, cruz' campaign manager reacted to this new o'rourke strategy by saying last night after the debate that, quote, when an unconventional candidate goes conventional, that's typically when they get split open like a cantaloupe. now, cruz 'em bra' embrace of d trump has pitfalls of its own. even though trump won the state of texas by nine points in 2016, his approval and disapproval rate here in the state are even at this point. >> all right, ed, thank you so much. "outfront" now, senior adviser and national spokesperson for moveon.org and scott jennings, former special assistant to george w. bush. beto o'rourke now sharpening his attacks against ted cruz but with less than three weeks until the election, o'rourke is down by seven points among likely voters in the cnn poll, 89% of whom say their minds are made
up. can he really actually hope to make up any difference here? >> i think it's -- i think he can. look, we're talking about texas, deep red texas, and you have someone who is -- and you have someone, beto o'rourke, who's actually making it competitive, and like you mentioned in 2016, trump won it by nine points. in 2012, mitt romney won it by 16 points. he has this amazing war chest which i think also is showing the grassroots energy around him, small dollars, not accepting money, pac money or corporate money. and another thing, too, is since the midterms, it was 1.6 million new voters on the voter rolls in texas. 1.6 compared to 2002 and 2004 where it was 100,000. so, beto o'rourke can take that money and really do a ground game, i think that it will be a very tight race at the end and we'll see if he can pull it out. >> scott, in races all over the country, we're seeing democrats
outraise republicans. according to the national journal, 92 house republican incumbents were outraised by their democrat challenger. obviously we see a stark example of that in texas. does that concern you as a republican? >> well, it concerns me in a lot of these house races, absolutely. i think some republicans are going to lose house races because they didn't raise enough money and they didn't prepare themselves. i think in the case of the texas senate race, though, democrats are going to look at this the day after the election and wonder, boy, oh boy, if only we'd had another couple million in north dakota or missouri or indiana or west virginia or florida or any of these other states where democrats are actually running close races. you know, democrats every cycle, they're always looking for a southern messiah, they're looking for the next -- which democrat can compete in the south and they fall in love with these candidates and they pour money into these races and it never pans out. a democrat hasn't won in texas in 24 years, one's not going to win this year. this is not a close race. i can't believe any democrat in texas is getting a good night's
sleep given the loud flushing sound of flushing $61 million down the toilet trying to knock off ted cruz. it's not going to happen. >> karine, i know you disagree with everything he said. >> everything he just said. >> but i want to ask you, president trump is campaigning with cruz in texas on monday. you heard ed say the president's approval ratings in texas, even though he won that state handily, it's pretty even, 49%, 48%. do you think that trump actually will be a boost to ted cruz, especially considering the bad blood between them historically, not anymore, but historically and the fact that, as beto o'rourke puts it, you know, he went after his family. he insulted his wife and his dad. >> and ted cruz still goes back to the person who started all of it, insulting your wife and your dad? that's pretty low. that's lower than we've ever seen, even if people do this in the past where they go after each other and then come back together. look, beto o'rourke just recently had a event where
55,000 people, donald trump said he wanted the biggest stadium, and he's going to one of the smallest stadium of 8,500. i'm not worried at all. >> scott, president trump and ted cruz obviously have had a really ugly relationship. here's just a small sample. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward, and leave heidi the hell alone. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being, you know, shot. i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. >> the man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist. >> lying ted cruz, lying ted. lies. oh, he lies. >> so is it all just water under the bridge now? >> well, i think republicans want it to be water under the bridge, and look, if i were ted cruz, i'd still be super pissed about some of the things that donald trump said, but i'm not a u.s. senator and i don't need to get reelected so i guess i could be super pissed about it.
ted cruz has done what he had to do. he's gone to the senate, played nice with the white house, helped trump, and he's helped the senate leadership, mitch mcconnell and john cornyn when he used to be a thorn in their side so ted cruz learned a lesson. he was chasened by the presidential campaign and he's now become more of a team player, which is precisely what the republicans in texas want him to do. the reason they have a good voice in texas right now is because ted cruz has actually started playing ball with the party and the party is getting results and that's the agenda that the people in texas most want to see. >> i just want to say one thing. a year ago, alabama, we had -- we didn't win that u.s. senate seat in 25 years and it happened. so, just wanted to throw that out there. >> all right. >> whoa, whoa, are you saying -- >> alabama, we did. >> are you saying there are comparable conditions in alabama and texas? that is an outlandish assertion. >> i don't think she's saying that. anyway, scott, karine, thank you so much. appreciate it. don't miss the special cnn town hall on the texas senate race with dana bash tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. eastern. "outfront" next, this is
what happened when a reporter dared to ask jared kushner a question on an airplane. >> jared, errol barnett with cbs. any comment on -- >> why did the secret service react like that? is that their job? plus, a stunning eight-month investigation into the trump organization and what was uncovered is a troubling history of lies and deception. stay with us. before i had the shooting, burning, pins and needles of diabetic nerve pain these feet... ... made waves in high school... ... had a ball being a dad...
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tonight, the secret service defending itself after an agent covered up a reporter's phone camera as he tried to ask senior white house adviser jared kushner a question about saudi arabia while they were both on an airplane. here's part of what happened. >> how you doing, jared, errol barnett with cbs. any comment on --
>> "outfront" now is the reporter who was trying to ask kushner a question, errol barnett. thanks so much for joining us. tell us what happened and what did you want to ask kushner? >> well, jake, this seemed to me much ado about nothing, initially. i'm boarding a plane from washington, d.c., to new york, a flight i take regularly . i saw that jared kushner and ivanka trump were the final two people to board this flight, surrounded by secret service agents and in communicating with my bureau, cbs, in washington, d.c., it was simply agreed that, look, there are burning questions we have for this administration on its response to saudi denials that the saudi royal family had nothing to do with the disappearance of jamal khashoggi, so this was an opportunity to ask jared kushner, who is key in the trump administration's thinking and relationship with the saudi
royal family, how he responds to the denials. that was the purpose. and as i got this question out, wearing my cbs lanyard and white house press badge, which as you know you have to be vetted by the secret service in order to obtain one, i thought it an opportunity for an adviser to the president to speak about the administration's response. we do know that he had a phone conversation with the crown prince, mohammed bin salman, last week, so it's a burning question at an important time, and the secret service intervened and you see what happened there in the video. >> cnn law enforcement analyst jonathan tweeted in part, quote, i give a pass in this case as agents were focused on dynamic security elements over a press inquiry. reporter exposed kushner being on the plane, increased exposure equals increased risk. i don't agree with that, but what do you say? >> well, look, reporting on the white house and traveling with president trump, reporting on him on air force one and
traveling with the previous president, barack obama, us in the media have such great respect for secret service agents and what they do, and i have to note, and i've been saying this all day, they are some of the most respectful agents within law enforcement. it is extremely rare to see a secret service agent cover a camera. in fact, i was reached out to a contact who said, look, as a secret service agent, that is a no-go. we're not supposed to impede or interfere with the press at all, and the secret service says that was not the intent in that moment. they released a statement saying they in no way were trying to inhibit access to jared kushner. they perceived the phone in my hand as a type of threat. they did not realize i was a member of the press and it all unfolded within just a few short moments, and so the tweet went viral, i think, because it struck a chord with what people are seeing in the country right now. >> they say that they thought the phone was a threat? how so? >> well, secret service agents are, as other police officers,
trained to respond on instinct and immediately and so in conversing that i've had with the secret service since and the statement that they put on the record which we're allowed to share, they say that the offering responded to a movement, an abrupt movement, they say, by an unknown individual who later identified themselves as a member of the media. now, you can see in the video, the very first thing i say is who i am and who i'm with, and i'm wearing the name of my channel around my neck, so you can make what you think of that statement, but from the secret service perspective, they don't think this officer did anything wrong and they were not trying to inhibit access to mr. kushner and for the record, we've reached out to the white house for an interview and press secretary sarah sanders says she'll let me know if the opportunity presents itself. >> i'm sure she will. of course, the secret service agent, errol barnett, said not the time or place so i think he
did understand who you were. thank you so much for being with us tonight. "outfront" next, money and lies, new details tonight from an extensive eight-month investigation into the trump organization. i'll talk to one of the reporters about what her team uncovered. plus, michael cohen now threatening to take on president trump on the campaign trail. stay with us. flood, and rain event.to primarily be a wind, ♪ how many people are in the car? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
new tonight, a stunning eight-month investigation revealing that president trump and his family regularly misled and deceived potential investors and buyers to make a profit off their real estate projects. just look at some of the examples. from 2008, ivanka trump told reporters that 60% of the units at its tower in soho, new york, have been sold. in reality, only 15% of the units had been sold. that tower has since gone bankrupt with the trump name removed. ivanka trump said that trump international hotel in toronto was, quote, virtually sold out of units in a 2009 interview. in reality, less than 25% of its
units have been sold. according to a 2016 bankruptcy filing. and the trump name is off that property as well. and then there is a planned tower in tampa. donald trump said in 2007 the building sold out of units. in reality, the developers failed to sell a minimum of 70% of units there and the project was never even built. "outfront" now, a reporter for pro publica. heather, welcome. this investigation shows these were not one-offs or mistakes. this is clearly how the trump family did business, but i have to ask, did anything that you found that the trumps did, did any of it fall into the category of illegal? >> well, that is a very good question. thanks, first of all, for having me on. we spoke with one federal prosecutor who said that a lot of the behaviors that we were finding and describing, this
pattern as having, were things that he had seen in fraud investigations and in fraud prosecutions before. now, fraud is not uncommon in real estate, as many people know, but it is illegal, and there were people who were hurt by these prosecutors who had for making -- the trump family suggested that they were developers or part equity owners twh in fact they were not. take a listen to mr. trump touting a project in waikiki during a season finale of "the apprentice." >> honolulu's world famous waikiki beach is one of the most popular tourist destinations on earth. that's why i'm building a trump
international hotel and tower here. the trump international hotel and tower will feature just over 460 units with state-of-the-art amenities and breath-taking views. >> he later told "the wall street journal," quote, this building is largely opened by me and being developed by me, unquote. that wasn't true either? >> right. exactly. what we found was that the trumps and donald trump would tend to inflate not only the sales figures, but also their own stake, ownership stake or involvement in the deal and role. they were typically not the developer, but they would say things that would lead people to believe that they were either the developer or that they had put a lot of their own money into the project. and that was something that some buyers said gave them false confidence about these projects because many of them went belly up. >> how lucrative were these projects and how much money could have been at stake here? >> well, we are talking, in
terms of the projects, these are hundreds of millions of dollars. in terms of the trumps' take, there is not as much information about that. a lot of these documents are not public. but we found in panama that trump likely took between $30 million and $55 million from that deal. remember, this is a deal that went bankrupt. so we're talking tens of millions of dollars. >> heather vogel, thank you so much. amazing work. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. "outfront" next, michael cohen saying he will campaign against the man he once said he would take a bullet for. opportunity is everywhere. like here. and here. see? opportunity. hi! cinturones por favor. gracias. ev-er-y-where. about to be parents.
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click or visit a retail store today. this is cnn. the most trusted name in news. as news breaks about the president's former fixer michael cohen meeting with the mueller team and with officials investigating the trump family business and charity, the president's former fixer is threatening to take on his former boss on the campaign trail. m.j. lee is out front.
>> hi. are you meeting with special counsel? >> reporter: an extraordinary transformation for a man who once said he would take a bullet for donald trump. >> the next president. >> reporter: michael cohen, the president's former attorney, was for years trump's most loyal supporter. not anymore. cohen reportedly changing his party afillration from republican back to democratic. a source telling cnn he is now willing to campaign against his former boss to help the democratic party in the midterms and the 2020 collection. cohen tweeting this weekend, the midterm elections might be the most important vote in our lifetime. get out and vote. >> hello, mississippi. >> reporter: trump returning the hostility, slamming his former fixer as a low-level pr person who only did small legal work. trump selling "the associated press" he wasn't in trouble for what he did for me. he was in trouble for what he did for other people. he wants to try to get a little bit lighter sentence for what he did. but in fact cohen pleaded guilty to ate criminal counts in august
including campaign finance violations related to his efforts to silence porn star stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. cohen saying he did so as trump's direction. trump denied having affairs with either women. the public feud between cohen and trump a drastic 180 from the previously ironclad relationship. >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump. i am obviously loyal and very dedicated to mr. trump. >> reporter: the president defending his former attorney as recently as april after the fbi raided cohen's manhattan home, hotel room, and office. >> i just heard that they broke into the office of one of my personal attorneys. good man. and it's a disgraceful situation. it's a total witch hunt. i said that is now in a whole new level of unfairness. >> reporter: but as cohen fell deeper into legal trouble, trump began changing his tune.
>> mr. president -- >> look, i did nothing wrong. this stuff would have come out a long time ago. i did nothing wrong. >> is he still your friend? >> i haven't spoken to him in a long time. >> reporter: as he awaits sentencing in december, according to his lawyers he is speaking to investigators, including from special counsel robert mueller's office. likely an attempt to receive shorter prison time. >> and cohen is talking about the possibility of hitting the campaign trail, which obviously begs the question, is anyone asking for his help? >> reporter: yes, he is willing to hit the campaign trail. it is probably not likely we will see him out on the road until his sentencing in december. keep in mind, a federal judge has limited where he can travel in the country. you could also imagine not all democrats are necessarily going to be comfortable with this idea of michael cohen becoming their new surrogate. i should note, we did ask the democratic national committee for comment on this story, and
they declined to comment. >> you know who i bet would like him? avenatti. think about it. >> two michaels. >> yeah. thanks so much. thanks for joining us. ace 360 starts now. sfrz /* frz . we begin with breaking news. new reporting on what was said at this meeting between secretary of state mike pompeo and the power behind the saudi throne. crown prince mohammed bin salman known as mbs, also known as the man who would have known in advance about the alleged torture, murder and dismemberment of jamal khashoggi in saudis. according to a source, the smiles you see between the prince and the secretary of state pompeo which raised eyebrows today were only for show. even as we bring you this new account of a tougher tone with the saudis or alleged