very good monday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto in new york. >> and i'm poppy harlow. we are learning dozens of migrant ds make it across the border but not making it past tear gas wield be border patrol agents. donald trump tweet iing w ining

morning. >> it is open again now for the moment. miguel marquez is there. tell us what's happening now and was it your sense from your reporting on the ground that this rushing of the border was a one-off? part of a plan? >> they may have been emboldened by this demonstration that took place and that's what led to this mele. this is one of the areas that got closed off yesterday. the border crossing, foot border crossing where many migrants come, especially those from central america, they come up here to try to apply for their asylum status. it's also a place where thousands of residents of tijuana use it every day to go to work or school in the u.s. it's upsetting the course of life on both sides of the

border, certainly. one thing that the chief of patrol for the san diego sector is saying, you can see this bridge over here. they went under this bridge and pushed on to several different parts of the border and the head of the san diego patrol says that many of them tried to push through to the u.s. but they were stopped. >> 42 crossed the border and were arrested. to be frank, many people made it across the border. we're in the process of building a new border wall here. we don't have it completed. there were sections that have dilapidated border wall. the group tore down one small section, started to rush across.

that's another time they were starting to assault our agents. we were able to hold them back. >> border patrol using pepper ball guns and canisters or tear gas at those groups in order to get -- hold them back, made several arrests. the mexican government also now saying that if individuals try to cross illegally and engage in this sort of behavior, they, o too, will deport them back to their home countries, most of them from central america. the mexican government, for many months now, has been deporting thousands of central americans coming through mexico if they break the rules here in mexico. back to you guys. >> miguel marquez, thank you for being there and for that important reporting. >> those are certainly troubling images we're seeing at the border now. let's bring in the most highly decorated officer, i should note, in the history of the u.s.

immigration nationalization service and author of "deep in the shadows: undercover in the world of human smuggling." who, to your knowledge and with your experience -- the president pass has portrayed it contains criminals, unknown middle easterners, et cetera. is this an accurate description of this group of people? >> i think there's a large description of -- we already know there is a large group of central americans. in that group you have every sector we're talking about. there's criminals in the group, there's possibly hundreds of individuals who have lived in the united states before who were deported back to their home country and, of course, they're trying to take advantage of this organizati

organization, the organizers bringing this caravan south of the border. you have a wide segment of individuals. you have a mix of criminals, people who have been deported from the united states. for example, there was a recent interview of an individual who had been deported twice and had an extensive criminal record. he was interviewed on major outlets. you have a wide section of individuals coming into the country. but i would like to make one point. you know, we see the tactic of rushing the border by several hundred individuals, a tactic that was used in southern mexico, but we didn't see the violence down there. it's interesting. we have hundreds of people fleeing violence and they're using those same tactics here on the u.s. border, throwing projectiles, rocks against our border patrol agents. we have a very dangerous, volatile situation. and, obviously, you know, the caravan progress has stopped. it's frustrating for the hundreds of people that are in that group. they expected to be in the united states before then. they don't want to stay in mexico which, by the way,

they're safe from any violence or aggression in their home countrie countries. >> let me ask you this. the president has deployed active u.s. military on the border as well. is that deployment of force -- one, is it necessary, in your view? and does it help the process, right, or is it possible in your view that these migrants can be handled in what is the existing asylum process at the border? come, apply, tell your story. have that adjudicated, et cetera. >> there are asylum processes throughout the world. they can apply for asylum even in their home countries but the reality is that they have used a third country to traverse through, mexico, which by the way several thousand mile as way from their home. i thiching the security -- let me just add that i believe that the administration is going to

be unbending, and it should. this not the appropriate way to come into the country, seeking asylum with 4,000, 5,000 people along the southern border. i think mexico is feeling the brunt of having several thousand people traveling through their country. the citizens of tijuana are under a tremendous amount of pressure with 4,000, 5,000 people without the appropriate facilities, appropriate resources and, obviously, they're looking for some kind of relief in that particular manner. i think in this sense, i want to say i spent three years as director of the u.s. embassy in mexico city. mexico needs to take responsibility for having allowed 5,000 people to have come into the country. and they're realizing we're not going to allow them into the united states. >> hipoli tochlt acosta, thank you very much. appreciate your expertise on this country. >> thank you. >> national security analyst julia keim. the president is warning this morning, threatening this morning really if this does not

subside that the u.s. would be willing to permanently close the border. i get, you know, the play to the base. i get the rhetoric. what i don't get is, you know, why he would do this when it would arguably just weaken his argument. because you can't do that. he's not going to do that. the impact of trade, the economic impact of permanently closing an international border would be huge. does it weaken the argument that he has here and take away his goal of a wall here to permanently close an international border? >> yeah. let me be clear here. the border is not going to be permanently closed. it would hurt the united states as much as it hurts mexico, or the immigrants. our trade and economic viability relies on the millions of people that come between the border monthly, let alone the commercial activity between mexico and the united states. so it's not going to happen. his tweet this morning is more of a ploy to say that, you know,

we're going to be tough and harsh and close things and build a wall. none of it is sustainable. and none of it is effective. i thought it was interesting that the san diego sector cvp guy said the military built some fence and they got around it. i don't think he meant to undermine the military but the wall is not a sustainable, long-term option. this is all atmospherics. it's also violent atmospherics that put our cvp officials as well as immigrants in harm's way. all of it, let's put it in perspective. at most a couple thousand of people in a country where over 350 million. in a country which has lawful immigration in the millions on a weekly basis. so this is elevating the temperature when actually this could be dealt with as a problem but just a public policy problem. no reason to get -- to change who we are as a nation for this. >> forgive me for imagining that

politics are part of this discussion at this point. but those images this weekend certainly serve the president's interests as he focuses, particularly during the lame duck session, on getting the money that he wants for his wall. i wonder how you see this changes the dynamics of that vote with a december 7th deadline coming up on funding the government. do the democrats have to cave at this point? >> the optics are two-pronged really. the images of migrants rushing the border, violence that's occurred between them and law enforcement, mexican authorities and our cvp officials certainly makes the case, strengthens the president's case that there is a crisis along the border. but as juliette said, we're talking about a few thousand people here. a lot of this crisis is a crisis that's been manufactured by the president, by his decision to change asylum rules or try to

change asylum rules so people who expect to be able to come to the border, as they have for many, many years, saying i'm in fear of my life, i'm asking for asylum in the united states, he's trying to shut that down. you have a lot of frustration and as miguel said earlier, a peaceful protest that got violent and so certainly the optics build a case for the fact that you need security at the border. but it also shows that barriers are not effective. they're not the answer here. and i would also add that, you know, the images of women and small children being gassed at the united states border, i think, really undermines the president's case and makes democrats, i think, on capitol hill who are trying to, you know, puzzle through the optics of this and the politics of this for the coming weeks and a potential shutdown fight makes them more determined to stand against this and be very public about that. that is not what anyone wants to

see projected as american values on the world stage. >> this is one of those classic issues where each side is going to harden positions effectively on each side. >> julie, quickly, before we go, remind us where immigration falls in ternls of importance, especially for republican voters. >> well, i mean, what we've seen is the president really play up this issue because he knows that it really animates the republican base, conservative base. and he has, in talking about immigration in the way that he does and in taking the alcohols that he has taken, he has elevated the importance of the issue across the board. when you look broadly, public opinion is much more on the side of a comprehensive solution that does include some border security but i wouldn't say that generally speaking you have a lot of support in the country broadly for the kinds of approaches that he has been taking here. and i think we'll see that play out. >> julie, juliette, thank you so much. >> thank you. one of the first people

charged in the mueller probe is heading to prison today. will he be the only one? >> on paper or if history is any indicat indicator, this shouldn't be a close election. on the eve of a run-off in the mississippi senate race, president trump is looking to help the republican in a state where, frankly, a democrat hasn't held a senate seat in a long, long time. can he do it? ahead. whoa! the mercedes-benz winter event is back and you won't want to stop for anything else. [ barks ] ho! lease the c 300 sport sedan for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. ♪ bum-bum-bum-bum-bum t-mobile believes it's better to give than to receive. some may disagree.

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welcome back. at any moment, ex trump campaign aide george papadopoulos is expected to report to prison. he was the first person charged by mueller prosecutors. will the mueller report really see the light of day? will the public get to read it? republican jim himes, happy post-thanksgiving. thanks for being here.

>> good morning, poppy. >> good morning. both jim and i were struck by what alan dershowitz said yesterday on abc. he is an attorney, prominent supporter and defender of the president but said the mueller report will be, quote, devastating for the president and he said devastating politically for the president. do you share concerns that some are voicing that the mueller report may not be made public and may not be made at least immediately public? >> well, i sure do, poppy. you know, this has been such a divisive episode in our history with the president on a daily basis claiming there's nothing there. of course, that's notwithstanding the many guilty pleas and people, including today, who are off to jail, et cetera, et cetera. it's been such a divisive episode in which the basic facts and basic truth have been litigated usually on social media. but the american people need to know the truth. as a member of congress, i think congress will need to sort of figure out -- we don't know what bob mueller intends to do. i don't think anybody does.

we'll need to make sure that this is, in some way the truth is out there, whatever that truth may be. >> right. let me ask you this. you have warned about essentially overdoing it come january, when democrats take control of the house and the intel committee, which you sit on. you said we need to make sure we don't get too carried away with investigations. are you concerned about that, frankly, from what you're hearing from your fellow democrats is too much about focusing on the president and his allies and not enough on bipartisan and finding, for example, a solution to the immigration crisis in this country? >> actually, the reverse is true. we've been back together for one week since the election, and i will tell you, everyone from maxine waters, who held a meeting of the democrats on the financial services committee to the caucus meetings we've had, the ethic is one of making sure yes, of course we're going to do the investigations. i want to be clear here. this administration, every single day, gives you, you know,

reason to investigate, reason to do oversight. my point -- i think the leadership and the general environment within the democratic caucus is, yes, of course we have to do that. it's what the constitution says we should do. we also need to make real progress for the american people. there's only so many days in a year. you said immigration, yes. but on transportation infrastructure, on wages, retirement security. at the end of these two years we better have some accomplishments for the american people to say you trusted us and here is what we did for you. >> that sounds like a message to your fellow democrats and republicans as well. you chair the new coalition and have been asked over and over on this network and others, will you vote for nancy pelosi and you consistently said, including last wednesday to my colleague, i'm not going to answer that until i'm done doing all the interviews. well, now you're done so i'll ask you, will you vote for nancy pell owesy?

>> breaking here on cnn because you got me, poppy. yes, you're right, our process is done and i intend to support leader pelosi to be speaker. the whole attack on leader pelosi was that you can't win with nancy pelosi. well, son of a gun, we won in oklahoma, kansas, south carolina, places we never imagined we would win. so this idea that you can't win with nancy pelosi is just plain wrong. does that mean we don't need to be plotting a succession, a younger group of leaders who are taking over -- that will eventually take over? of course we need to do that. >> okay. >> the whole attack on nancy pe pelosi is just not consistent with what happened on election night. >> there you go. some breaking news. you will vote for nancy pell os. now you won't have to take that question any more, congressman. i was reading in the connecticut post that you intend to tell nancy pelosi that you would like to chair the house intelligence committee instead of the ranking democrat, adam schiff. is that correct? >> no, that's not correct.

no, not instead of. adam is one of my closest friends in the caucus. he has done a superb job. ultimately the decision as to who chairs that committee is up to the leader. i don't have any reason to believe that she'll make a change there. as the second ranking member on that committee were the opportunity to rise, i would accept it. adam is a close friend. it's not some sort of macavelean attempt to change the leadership of that committee. >> we've never seen anything macavelean in politics before. as it pertains to adam schiff, he said on cnn, making a lot of news, that he has been briefed by the cia on the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi and said, quote, i think the president is being dishonest with the american people. have you seen the report and do

you believe that the president is being dishonest with the american people about the murder of jamal khashoggi? >> i probably haven't seen all the thaenlintelligence that ada seen but i have seen some. nothing happens without the leadership position there, plus the intelligence i've seen and the conclusion of the cia as reported, i don't think there's any doubt that the crown prince ordered this. the president, obviously, who is not necessarily a good friend of the truth has other reasons for trying to muddy the water here. he claims that sawed a arabia is important to our economy. i believe that the leverage is on the other side and we have the leverage here. i completely disagree with the president on this. >> you think he's being dishonest with the american people, as adam schiff does. yes? >> is that breaking news, poppy? >> i'm asking you, congressman. thank you for being here. thank you for answering the

questions. >> okay. >> see you soon. >> thank you, poppy. >> now to the scliting conflict, the violence between russia and ukraine. over the last 24 hours, russia opened fire on three ukrainian had navy vessels headed for the port. they seized their crews there. the incident taking place in the kerch strait. it occupies crimea, eastern ukraine all within ukraine's internationally recognized borders. u.n. set to hold an emergency meeting in under two hours on this latest activity. matthew chance is in moscow with more. matthew, this is quite a remarkable escalation of violence, perhaps a signal that the west's sanctions against russia have not changed russian

behavior, russian aggression against ukraine. >> well, i think it's certainly true that the very stringent sanctions that have been imposed against russia by the united states, its allies in the european union and others as well may have had an impact on the russian economy but don't seem to have done much to change russian policy, which was the stated intention of them. in that extense sense, many experts look at this carefully and say they've not been a success. that doesn't mean there aren't going to be more sanctions that could have an impact, of course. it's exactly this kind of escalation this kind of tension as it bubbles into actual violence that may provoke a much stronger reaction. what's taken place the last 24 hours or so, ukrainian navy say at least six of its sailors were injured when russia opened fire on three of its vessels in the kerch strait, very narrow stretch of water that exists between the russian mainland and

the crimean peninsula, which it an ex-ed. russia controls that strait, giving access to the sea. u.s. officials and, of course, ukrainians have been accusing russia of interfering with international shipping, with preventing ukrainian vessels, getting into ports of sea by disrupting them. this is the latest kill minutation of that and it could escalate further, jim. >> we'll see what the west response is. matthew chance, thank you very much. >> president trump is back on the campaign trail this time for an embattled republican senator in mississippi on the eve of a run-off election, will the president's visit be enough to keep the seat red? moechlts away from the opening bell on wall street, dow set to rebound after a rough week last week. watching how cyber monday plays out. we'll have that next. let's begin.

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democratic senator since 1870. you said on cnn, look, republicans should be concerned about this. are they, in the state and is the president enough to help cindy hyde-smith hold this seat? >> i think so, certainly. this race has tightened up, especially in the last couple of weeks since, like you said, these videos have been released. president trump, of course, he came to mississippi about a month ago, actually, to stump for hyde-smith, which even then was seen as a surprise here in the state. republicans are clearly sort of nervous about this. this is sort of unprecedented, at least in terms of a democrat challenging a republican, an incumbe incumbent, effectively incumbent

republican for senate. >> right. >> it's interesting that trump is coming and certainly that's what we're all watching here today. >> even the latest political ad from her team is not her. it's president trump. clearly they made the calculation that this is really going to help them. some new reporting that cnn has over the weekend on hyde-smith. we know from our reporting she introduced legislation resolution back in 2007, praising a confederate soldier for, quoet, defending his homeland, new reporting from the jackson free press that he attended a segregationist high school and sent her daughter to one as well. are these new tidbits of information coming out, are they enough to take the seat away from her? >> well, you know, i think it's important to say that in mississippi, this confederate stuff, the legislation she's introduced, her attending what they call segregation academies, essentially private schools set

up in the 70s to avoid integration, that's part of the daily life in mississippi here. that's not to take away from the importance of pointing these things out when a senate candidate is running, of course. but for mississippians, the folks going to the ba polls to cast votes it is par for the course. it is a big deal, of course, and has gotten national attention. that's certainly added to the national intrigue of this race and i think that certainly adds to why the president feels it's necessary to come to mississippi and help in this close race. but like i said, for the majority of mississippians, i'm not sure how much that will resonate tomorrow when the polls open. >> it's an important point. you're there, covering it locally. and people in mississippi get to vote, not people around the country. quickly, what will it say if they manage to lose alabama and mississippi in the same year? >> that alabama race, of course, a lot of people have drawn parallels to the race here in mississippi. it's hard not to.

we have this sort of late national intrigue come in to the state in both of these races. you had republican candidates who, you know, were seen as sort of these controversial, you know, interesting past type situations and two democrats that really have sort of the statewide appeal that we were able to reach crossover voters potentially. the parallels are there. we'll see how it plays out. certainly the mike espy campaign here in mississippi has utilized that playbook from alabama in a lot of ways, shared a lot of the same political operatives from that doug jones race in december 2017. we'll see how it plays out. >> adam, appreciate it. good luck. i know you'll be up late tonight. thanks so much. >> thanks so much, poppy. millions are now on the brink of starving to death because of the war in yemen, according to international aid groups. those charities are begging the u.s. to step in and stop the

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so this morning, five countries are pleading for the united states to end its coalition with saudi arabia in yemen. more than 14 million people are at risk for starvation and starving to death if conditions on the ground do not change immediately. look at these images, starving children. incredibly difficult to see but important. our senior international correspondent who has covered the crisis in yemen extensively joins us. this is a rare report and points the finger directly at the united states and says, quote, the u.s. is deepening and prolonging this crisis. >> and it speaks partly to the pretty extraordinary circumstances that those within the humanitarian community have found themselves in yemen. it has now been three years into this conflict and 35,000 children killed later and yet that does not seem to be a

strong message coming out of the u.s. administration. i want to read you a little bit of this statement. the united states, the statement says, is one of the most generous donors of humanitarian assistance in yemen but these contributions pale in comparison to the harm cause bid u.s. military support and diplomatic cover to saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. if it does not cease its military support of the saudi/ua coalition, the united states may bear responsibility for what could be the largest familiar inin decades and they are comparing it far beyond what we saw in somalia where hundreds of thousands of people died. it's not just these humanitarian agencies that are speaking out. head of the world food program who came out of yemen recently said we're tired of warning that there will be a catastrophe. he said, poppy, we are already there. this is already a catastrophe.

>> and one we will keep covering, day in and day out right here. nima, thank you for all the work you do on this. we appreciate it. >> the ceo of the international rescue, one of five people asking the u.s. to change course. >> good morning. >> because of you and your organization's experience on the ground in yemen. for folks at home here in the u.s. today, who only see periodic images of the suffering there, describe in your terms what you've document there had. >> i was in yemen in september. 800 staff are working for the international rescue committee there. the country is in meltdown. and i can visualize the health

centers where mothers are bringing literally starving children to get some form of relief. i can visualize the port which i should be delivering not just humanitarian aid but commercial traffic. i can see in the eyes of the workers, who had to evacuate, the fear but also the sense that their country is being lost. that statistic, 14 million people at risk of starvation, is a figure from the united nations. the world food program have confirmed this. and so whoo have a man-made catastrophe here. it's not a natural disaster that we just have to put up with but the product of years of war, 18,000 bombing raids and a failed strategy. >> mr. miliband, of course, the u.s. backed saudi arabia's military activity there, supplying many of the weapons,

including weapons that have been used against civilians and diplomatically backs saudi arabia. is it your view that the u.s. is complicit in this manmade humanitarian disaster you describe there? >> the u.s. is certainly supportive of the military strategy and it's a failed military strategy. secretary pompeo and secretary mattis both called for a ceasefire 25 days ago. now or organizations have been calling for a cease fire for much longer. there was an admission from the highest levels of u.s. government that it is a failed war strategy. they've called for a cease fire but there's been no follow through. we're now in a situation where there's defiance of the investigations of the united nations, who found war crimes, defiance of the u.s. department of defense and the u.s. secretary of state, who have called for a cease fire, defiance also over the fact that far from being won, this war is actually only of benefit to al qaeda and isis, who are thriving amidst the chaos. so you have the perfect cocktail here of a manmade disaster that has humanitarian toll and

political toll, too. and today at the yupted nations -- sorry. >> you have mattis and others saying it's a failed war strategy. is it correct to say that saudi leaders take their orders from the top, from the president? it's relevant here in that president trump has not held saudi leaders responsible for the khashoggi murder and has yet to make a strong public push against this war. without trump himself intervening, is it really trump that saudi leaders are going to listen to and not the mattises of the world or not your committee? >> you're absolutely right. the president of the united states has power in his words far beyond any member of his administration or anybody else. there is a common link between the khashoggi murder and what's happening in yemen and that is the notion that there's impunity for actions around the world, impunity in the killing of one

person but also in the potential starvation of 14 million people. we do have one piece of evidence. president trump did speak once last december about the yemen crisis and it did bring a bit of a pause in saudi activity. there's no question in my mind, both from a humanitarian point vuf and a diplomatic point of view that the president has it in his power to call time on this failed strategy. we're not asking him to end the u.s. relationship with saudi arabia. we're asking him to use the u.s. relationship with saudi arabia to call time on this failed strategy. >> if he doesn't call time, is the u.s. complicit in the suffering there? >> yes, of course. because all of the members of the united nations security council are sitting on their hands at the moment. rather in particular the five permanent members. a draft was circulated, the so-called pen holder at the u.n. on the yellen file. it's still doing the rounds. we know daily people's lives are being lost and daily the political situation there is

becoming worse with radicalization and fragmentation. that's why we have this incredible sense of urgency at the extraordinary danger in yemen today. >> david miliband thank you so much for taking the time. >> thank you very much. >> we'll be right back. introducing le vian links of love, only at jared. visit jared.com for $100 off any le vian purchase. hi, my name is sam davis and i'm

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democratic congressman adam schiff tells cnn that president trump is being dishonest with the american people about the brutal murder of journalist jamal khashoggi and what the saudi prince did and did not know about it. >> very concerned about the president's inaction. mike lee of utah, going so far as saying, quote, the president

is siding with the saudis. susan collins calls it a grave mistake for the president to ignore the cia's assessment. with us now, former republican chair of the house intel committee mike rogers. good morning, sir, and thank you for being here. the words from republican lawmakers have changed dramatically over the weekend since the president's comments have come out. what is the assessment of the republican appetite to tie the president's hands here if need be? >> you see more of that bubbling over. as more information comes out and the information available from the cia assessment expands in the broader membership of the house and the senate, you'll see, i think, an increased appetite. i think the real challenge for the president is going to be it may, in fact, strategic relationships that you have. it's a big mistake for the president, white house security council to stick their head in this issue. i say that i mean arms sales,

military assistance in yemen to saudi arabia and other relationships that intelligence services and others have in saudi arabia. >> chairman of the house intelligence committee. you dealt with issues like this all the time. if it puts u.s. national security at risk here, because this has become a habit for this president. he ignores intelligence that he doesn't like, russian interference in the 2016 electi election, evidence that north korea is continuing nuclear and missile activity, despite those ongoing negotiations and now here, high confidence assessment from the cia that the crown prince is behind this. does that put america in danger when the commander in chief ignores the intelligence, ignores the facts? >> i do think it certainly jeopardizes relationships we have across the middle east, including very special relationships with the saudi arabian government, their intelligence services. that certainly will get frayed in this process, no matter what.

again, here is where i think -- i get that the president is probably getting these briefings and they're trying to say we have to balance this strategic relationship with what was clearly a murderous act of a reporter by the crown prince, and i think the president is just not doing a great job of trying to balance those two issues. the administration will need to go back and start putting pressure on the saudi government about trying to get some accountability on what happened. and that means that the crown prince has to step aside or do something. and when you heard really solid saudi arabia backers like senator lindsey graham say, hey, mbs has got to go, that's pretty significant. that's really significant. so i think that pressure is only going to get worse. >> that's a good point about lindsey graham, right, saying we're not going to give an autocratic leader a pass. the president seems to think

they're up to interpretation, these reports. are they? >> by the time they come to an assessment, and normally -- certainly when i was chairman, i did this. we would have -- you know, can you have dissenting opinions in these assessments. and that's okay. i mean, nothing is as clear as you always want it to be. but i will tell you by the time they make an assessment, it is pretty well vetted by people who are experts in this field and they can lay out the case as why they came to this conclusion. every once in a while, you might be able to say i disagree with their conclusion, but when they came out as strong on this particular issue, i just would disagree with the president on this. if they feel that strongly, it's based on electronic interceptions, source information and whatever forensic information the tuchlt rks are sharing, that's probably a pretty good conclusion. >> the president described them as feelings of the cia. >> no. >> they don't often express feelings in intelligence assessments. >> that happens at the bar at the end of the night not during

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all right. top of the hour. good morning, everyone. i'm poppy harlow. >> and i'm jim sciutto. president trump is threatening to close the border permanently if need be to prevent more scenes like we saw yesterday. >> hundreds of central american migrants stuck in mexico rose up, facing u.s. border officers who held them off for the most part with tear gas. we learned on cnn's "new day" that dozens of protesters did manage to enter the united states and were promptly arrested. border patrol agents were hit by projectiles thrown by immigrants, we heard. what is the situation there now