tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 4, 2019 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
an alien world where the president's tv lawyers scoured a besieged ally, ukraine for political dirt and pressured those for help and twitter, how you talk to the boss, former ukraine ambassador marie yuf nic niche. they're not fighting corruption in ukraine as the president continues to say. it adds up -- the two transcripts released today adds up to a stinging indictment. he did speak at a campaign rally in lexington, kentucky. cnn's pamly broela brown is the. what did the president say about
the inquiry and did he mention the transcripts? >> reporter: well, tonight here at this rally in kentucky, anderson, he focused primarily on the whistle-blower, continuing it poke at the whistle-blower, continuing these escalating attacks we've seen in recent days, where he's pushed for the whistle-blower to be unmasked even though the law protects his or her identity. he mentioned how the whistle-blower has been quiet ever since the transcript of his phone call with the ukrainian president was released. the whistle-blower wants to remain anonymous -- >> the whistle-blower is locally allowed to remain anonymous. it's the law. >> reporter: right, right, it's the law. the whistle-blower, you know, filed the complaint and wants to remain anonymous, but yet despite this, the president continues to lash out, focusing his ire toward the whistle-blower despite the cooperation from reporting and the testimony that has come out from current and former
administration officials but this crowd here tonight, anderson, is aware of what's going on behind the president. several supporters are wearing the t-shirt saying "read the transcript." you heard the president say that many times, he believes reading it is vindication for him. he said he wants to read it during a fireside chat, even though republican allies on capitol hill feel uncomfortable about this, you know, the president saying it's a personal phone call. they, a growing number, are saying they are concerned by the phone call, it's not something they would do, it may be inappropriate but not an impeachable offense. now you're seeing the president change his tune on quid pro quo saying even if there was quid pro quo, it wouldn't be a big deal, anderson. >> i assume the t-shirts saying "read the transcripts" are not the transcripts that have been released today, it's the president's fantasy version of the perfect transcript. thank you for joining us.
we'll talk more about where all this leaves the president. anthony scare muamucci joins us. why is the president still focus on the whistle-blower? that what's the advantage? >> he's the best at locking in a crowd and he's got a lot of people who believe in him and they're forced through this cognitive dissonance and by focusing on that, they can cling to that. i literally just left a personality code exhibition at a university i won't name, i'm up there speaking and they're locked into read the transcript. i had one 20-year-old woman tell me everything the president does is perfect. so they're locked into it. he does a very good job of this, anderson. >> so by focusing on the whistle-blower, that ignores what's actually happening, just
focus on this. and anthony and anderson, they're, quote unquote, never trumpers and that we're now scum. >> so we're now scum. >> yes. >> and don't focus that nobody should be above the law, focus on what i'm telling you. david koresh was brilliant at that, jim jones was brilliant at that. you're going to have to delayer this in a different way that we're currently delayering it. and we're doing that -- >> how -- everybody said about mueller, wait until mueller testifies. >> the testimony is going to come out. it way worse than mueller. you and i were talking at the break. he's the o.j. simpson of presidents. he got away with the whole
russian collusion situation but he's not getting away with this because he's a lawless guy and there's succession of lawlessness. i submit to you and everybody else, 29, 30 months is president, you think this is the only call he had with a foreign leader there's 193 nations in the united nations. you think he had one call like this? give me a break. there had to be 25 to 50 calls like this. this stuff is going to come out. it's going to come out in the public domain and then there will be one, possibly two republican senators that will be the margaret b. chase of the situation. >> you think there will be somebody to come out? >> if there isn't, we're not living in the country that you and i grew up in in our social studies civic course. no one's reading the constitution, no one's reading what ben franklin wrote or what james madison wrote? no one's reading it? if we're not, i don't know what to tell you. we'll figure it out. it's a great nation and we'll figure it out. he has broken the law. he's broken the law systematically and he's using
the forces of his communication skills and his manipulation to discredit people like you and me and to reinforce to his people like oh my god, i've made this decision, i've got to stay welded to this guy. full-blown cognitive disowe dense. this is rank lawlessness, he has to go. >> there were four officials from omb and the white house who were supposed to testify today didn't even show up, not really any ramifications, the democrats don't want to have this tied up in courts. do you think that's a mistake? >> i think the quicker they get this out in the public domain, the greater the likelihood that one or two rationalists that really love the country and want to go down in history.
think about the way we look at mccarthy now. in the bubble of mccarthy, dwight eisenhower failed to make a speech to denunsate mccarthy based on the criticism he was giving to george marshal. he folded the speech due to political expediency. eisenberg said this was one of the biggest times of his political career, he couldn't stand up to mccarthy. that's what the republicans are like right now. one of those republicans, man or woman, will say enough is enough, i'm voting against this guy when it comes time to impeach him. >> you're talking about mccarthy, roy cohen was whispering in mccarthy's ear. >> if they had a baby, it would be donald trump and he happens to be running the country. i'm just giving you the visual. >> the visual of those two actually having a baby is not
something i wanted to think about. >> anyone can have a baby. this is a situation that's going to unfold. and there's more lawlessness. there will be more facts that come out that are more damning than the current facts that are out right now. we're doing a very, very good job on the ground in these swing states. yes, some of those swing states the president is neck and neck with people like joe biden but i'm talking about the impeachment issue. >> do you think he's going to win -- >> do i think the president will win again? >> do you think president trump will win again? >> i think if he survives the impeachment -- >> what -- >> he'll be out. he'll say i'm not running for reelection or he'll have to leave office due to the rank -- >> that requires more republicans, more than one or two. >> just remember, nixon seemed safe coming into late july. into early august all of a sudden tapes were out -- >> at least with nixon, did you have republicans voting to
proceed with an impeachment inquiry. same with clinton. >> different time, different personality. weirdly, if you read nixon's memoir, he had a respect for the law and the system. he was trying to cover it up. but once he was rank, found out about it, he had to capitulate. the president is not going to do that. we're going to have to get him out of there in a different way than richard nixon left but he's equ equally lawless, in not more. when we get to 65, he's done. either there will be virtuous and righteous republicans that will come forward and say, okay, enough is enough, this is absolutely berserk or we'll get him with a polling nulmbers. y -- he had a 15% move in the polling numbers. i believe in the laws of compoundi
compounding. >> does politics go back to whatever it was before and however broken form or is this the new normal? is this the future of candidates in both parties? >> it's like the night king. the night king goes out, all the zombies will disappear and they'll forget about the night king. so no. it doesn't go back because the country is a lot of pain and stress. the economic is strong, the stock market is strong but there's a disparity in the country as it relates to wealth. until we can fix that, there will be a lot of anger and resentment in the country. we need transitional leadership, transformative leadership, sort of like a post-partisan presidency, more concerned about right or wrong and closes the gape for americans, irrespect i of special interests or whatever their party ideologies are, they're like okay, these are the right policies. the bad thing is these policies are five-year fixes.
they don't have a two-minute fix for the country right now. >> sant any scanthony scaramucc you. >> did you like the analogy? you almost vomited in your mouth a little bit. >> we'll tell you how the president might react as to what may be ale roing wave of testimony as the week goes on. new reporting on attorney general barr's role, traveling the globe, asking governments to help investigate the intelligence community. we'll be right back. ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪
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for his client just for good measure. how does his client, the president, see ukraine. >> josh, president trump's distaste for ukraine is nothing new. according to roaring, it goepor far, far back. >> the president was skeptical about giving ukraine aid. he said everyone was telling him to oppose this aid, even though most of the top advisers was saying to give the aid. it was quite confusinconfusing. he was hearing from rudy giuliani and he believed ukraine was essentially a thicket of officials who wanted to bring him down, who were hillary clinton supporters and who he also feared if he helped ukraine it would further aggravate vladimir putin and he didn't see
it as worth it. our reporting indicated even though there was vigorous efforts to build a better relationship, the president's vitriol toward ukraine never really abated. >> mark, you just have a fascinating report about the ukrainian president's predecessor, the guy who was the president in ukraine before zelensky, who essentially laid the groundwork for a quid pro quo kind of relationship with president trump. can you explain what you found out? it's really interesting. >> we kind of looked at it from the ukrainian side. what happens is effectively the ukrainian government in 2016 kind of bet on the wrong horse. they bet on hillary clinton, poroshenko, the president, met with hillary clinton before the election and of course president trump wins and the ukrainian government is incredibly concerned that effectively the new president, president trump, will cut them off. of course they're particularly worried about this war that they're fighting with
russian-backed separatists and the aid might get cut off. there's this intense campaign undertaken to try to win trump over and that includes flattery, it includes politically expedient trade deals like buying coal from western pennsylvania, which might help trump for his reelection, it involves kind of embracing rudy giuliani, all in aid of trying to get this military weaponry particularly, anti-tank missiles that they hope that the president will sell to them. so it's, as you said, kind of laying the groundwork for this very transactional relationship that trump then brings to the next president, zelensky, which has gotten trump into the impeachment inquiry now. >> josh, the president also went so far as to suggest that ukraine wasn't even a, quote, real country. in what context did he say that? >> well, he was being briefed by kurt volker and many others who were looking for a more
supportive relationship with the united states and ukraine. the president would continually tell his advisers he didn't understand the importance of having a good relationship with ukraine, that he didn't want to frustrate vladimir putin, they thought they were out to get him. he said are these even real people? he was told they were corrupt, told that the ukrainians are out to get hill and he said what is the point, why should we even do this? >> ukraine was trying to cultivate its relationship with the president through cooperation or lack of cooperation on aspects the of mueller investigation. >> that's right. so if you recall as the mueller investigation is going on, there are several parallel cases in ukraine relating to the president's former cam ppaign chair, paul manafort, who did work in ukraine and there was concern in the trump white house that these ukrainian cases might escalate and create more problems for the president.
what's interesting that happens is president poroshenko and his advisers effectively freeze these cases that were potentially damaging to trump. now, we don't know ---y don't ha -- we're don't have evidence they were frozen at the request of president trump or rudy giuliani but it's interesting as this campaign is going on to flatter and win trump over, there is this order to effectively freeze these criminal cases that might hurt the president and of course the sale of javelin missiles gets approved at the end of 2017. >> they also according to your reporting, correct me if i'm wrong, they led was it konstantin kilimnik go back to russia, right? >> he was suspected of having ties with russian intelligence, worked for paul manafort, was indicted in the mueller investigation, he very mysteriously leaves ukraine, is now living in russia. the question is how and why was
he let go? so this is possibly one other thing that the poroshenko government allowed to happen possibly to help trump. >> mark, both of you, fascinating reporting. pamela brown at the top told us the president had a lot to say about the whistle-blower, less to say about today's testimony and the substance. i'll talk to paul begala and joe lockhart for their perspective when we come back. more coverage. it's a network that gives you... with coverage from big cities, to small towns. introducing t-mobile's 600mhz signal. no signal reaches farther or is more reliable. and it's built 5g ready.
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president will have plenty to react to in the weeks to come. the president calls him his own war room on impeachment. the question is is that a good idea. joining us is joe begala and joe lockhart, both veterans of the clinton war room. we haven't really heard the president -- he was sort of throwing out -- it seems like there is this spaghetti approach, throwing out as much stuff as possible, see what sticks and ride that horse, to mix metaphors. >> the spaghetti western sort of thing. >> yeah, perfect. today he's not saying the transcripts have been faked. it seems like that's a one-day thing because there's plenty of republicans and witnesses who said that's not what i said. >> it's not even a one day -- it's a one news article, one tweet. he may win it because the shoot
a man on 5th avenue prediction turned out to be right. i'm not as optimistic about anthony scaramucci. >> i'm surprised scaramucci seemed so confident on that. >> i'm sure the partisanship is baked in. >> on clinton -- >> 31 democrats voted for the inquiry and only five to impeach. 25 of the 31 said it doesn't merit impeachment. >> the revelations are, they're only going to keep coming. and the question is does bolton testify on thursday and, if so, what game is he playing or what is he talking? >> the facts only get worse. and i think the democrats will release these in a story-telling way where they'll build up and the last couple will probably be
taylor and vindman, and that which really underlines the criminality of what trump was up to. whether bolton testifies or not, i don't think he will because i don't think they'll wait for it. you know, it's -- the poll titi are different now than in '98. in '9834 democrats voted for this because they thought it was in their interest to show their constituents. there isn't a republican right now independent of donald trump. the only people who will speak out about donald trump are people who are retiring. >> or mitt romney, who has -- >> yes, but he's got a stranglehold on them and they're intimidated by trump because he's has taken a few of them down. that's different, i think, than '98. >> and a lot of republicans represent districts that have a strong military component. i was listening to your interview with valerie plame and she talked about how security is being hollowed out here. the testimony that was released
by ambassador yovanovitch about how the state department has been hollowed out. virginia beach, newport news, it's all navy. people are telling me trump's favorables are dropping a lot. it's wonder if it's because they understand better than civilians do how national security could be compromised in this. but they do have to worry and the democrats should do their job saying this is how it affects you. it's not just people we've never heard of arguing about places we've never been, this is your security. friends of mine have kids in the military. we need -- the democrats need to make sure that our security is being played with here allegedly in this case. >> in the clinton white house, "the new york times" wrote aides to president and president clinton studied watergate to see
what went wrong and what went right in that and one of the less takeaways was that nixon talked about what was going on constantly and the lesson was send the message to the american people that the president is conducting forthem, this is not hobbling the president. that seems the complete opposite with stephanie grishham saying the president is his own war room. >> the president doesn't talk about it. paul will know he did privately, he engaged us on this subject occasionally. but he was going to focus on the people's business and he actually did focus on, we got a lot of stuff done during that period. there are a couple of fundamental differences, though. i've been thinking about this. i think the president's ability to speak on twitter and on fox without a filter is something that we didn't have. if bill clinton wanted to go out and talk every day, he'd have to go through the media filter and
it wouldn't have been pretty. trump has these tools, has these platforms that didn't exist in 1998 or in the form they exist now, and, you know, if he survives this, i think in large part it will be because of that and roger ailes will be right, which is he said i started fox news because nixon would have survived with a republican. >> i think it's a great point. i think the most important thing he needs is an agenda that people liked. that's what saved bill clinton. during the 1998, the year of the starr scandal, president clinton doubled funding for head start, passed a child care any tich, child support, nursing home standards, class size. the wye accords, the kyoto accord and operation desert fox. president clinton didn't have a
house or a senate. he got all of that done and it made life better for folks. so i think this were more forgiving. >> up next, bill barr's. >> why american allies might be clinching their teeth. be right back. most people think of verizon as a reliable phone company. (woman) but to businesses, we're a reliable partner. we keep companies ready for what's next. (man) we weave security into their business.
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attorney general william barr is traveling the world to learn if russia's meddling in our election really happened but the world apparently isn't offering much in return that discredits u.s. intelligence agencies. from london, nic robertson shows us how our domestic probe is creating irritation among some of most important global partners. >> reporter: behind the smiles, there's tension in the special relationship. president trump wants boris johnson to investigate his political opponents, figure out if mueller and others tried to smear him a day after his controversial call with the ukrainian president in july and just two days after johnson became prime minister, trump called him. now parliament wants details. >> did the prime minister as today's "times" reports receive a request from president trump
for help in trying to discredit the mueller report. >> i'm not going to comment on discussions with president trump that i held in private but i can give the assurance that of course neither the prime minister nor any member of this government would collude in the way that he described. >> the white house and downing street published brief notes on that conversation. neither made any mention of the investigation that trump is demanding. days after the trump/japohnson call, attorney general barr was in london moving trump's investigation forward. british sources were shocked at the requests coming from washington. >> the way it began to emerge in their eyes was this was the u.s. government asking for information, not about the russian, not about the chinese, not even about the french.
you know, it's about their own intelligence services. >> reporter: bar has also been to australia and italy in what is now a criminal investigation into the origins of the trump russia investigation and intelligence it used from overseas. the italians had nothing to offer barr. on his agenda likely the role of this maltese academic. he told acquaintances that the russians had dirt on hillary clinton. one of those acquaintances, george papodopalous. >> the apprehension is they are
getting drown into american politics. >> the obsession could cost america the trust of its allies. >> i want to bring in our chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. the gentleman in that piece said essentially what barr is looking for is not information about the russians or hacking or the chinese but about the united states. >> the remarkable -- >> the intelligence services of the united states. >> right. the barr has ordered an investigation of the origin of the mueller investigation and the whole russia investigation, russia's connection to the 2016 election. there have been many investigations of this and they have all pointed to the same set of origins, that alexander downer, an australian diplomat went to an american -- went to the u.s. intelligence services
and said george had inside information this hacking was going on. that has been the origin from the very beginning there have been all these other conspiracy theories always refuted, even the republican house intelligence committees that there was some other origin, that the steele dossier had something to do with it. this appears to be this incredible investment of u.s. government resources in proving a conspiracy theory that's already been discredited. >> it's also remarkable that the attorney general of the united states, with all the things you would think would take priority, he's actually traveling around the world to our allies, to australia, to italy, to lob done, to prove this theory. >> because he's pleasing his boss. that's entirely what this is all
about. the same obsession with finding out dirt on his political enemies that we're saw in ukraine is going on here in a slightly updated version. now, there's no quid pro quo. we're not giving aid to the british in return for this -- >> you're saying -- i mean, this all stems from the president's belief that this whole russia idea, which he doesn't really buy into or at least publicly doesn't buy into it because he feels it takes away from his legitimate election victory. that's what really is motivating all of this. >> that's exactly right. he feels that the russia investigation discredits what he accomplished in 2016 meep also thinks that raising this issue, raising the specter of some sort of improper conduct on the part of the intelligence agencies will help him in 2020, too.
so it has a double advantage for him if he can keep the story percolating. >> this is a criminal investigation. there's an attorney in connecticut who is in charge of it. >> well, he is the head of the justice department and the u.s. attorneys do a lot of investigations and they don't have the attorney general traveling around the world for their benefit. so the fixation that barr is showing and the priority that he's assigning to it seems wildly disproportionate, unless you recognize that his boss, the president of the united states, is obsessed with this theory, even though there's no evidence to support it. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. we have more news ahead on this busy monday. new polling today shows president trump staying fairly competitive in several battleground states. coming up what voters think in one of those states, wisconsin.
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. there's new polling that shows president trump in a relatively competitive position. in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin according to the "new york times" siena college poll he's either even with joe biden or not behind by much but the president is ahead of elizabeth warren in michigan and wisconsin and pennsylvania. he's ahead in north carolina. wisconsin of course is one of those all-important states won barely by president trump in 2016. cnn traveled there to gaej voug voter reaction as the peeflt inquiry ramps up. >> let's do that, wisconsin. let's turn it blue. >> reporter: the 2020 battle for wisconsin starts now. >> good morning. we'll get you a clip board.
>> reporter: democratic foot soldiers fanning out across the badger state. are people talking about impeachment here? >> it's not what you're hearing at the coffee shops or the hardware store. >> reporter: a year from election day, this is a door-to-door mission to find out what matters most to voters here. >> so what's important to you in this selection in. >> the jobs and environment especially. >> reporter: do you feel it is a house-to-house bats stle? >> it is. this is a county that voted for president obama and also for donald trump. >> president trump won wisconsin by fewer than 23,000 votes. we meet democrat bruce dunn. >> reporter: how long did you work for chrysler? >> 36 years and two weeks. not too many jobs like that now. >> reporter: he's lived racings's ups and down. during trump's terms, he's seen some jobs come back.
he cares most about the economy and health care. >> reporter: what about impeachment? you didn't mention impeachment. >> i kind of don't like the impeachment. the people on his side, i don't think they're going to jump ship because of it. >> absolutely ridiculous. >> reporter: unlike the democrats, wisconsin republicans are talking about impeachment. this packers and politics parties is one of the 150 gop events in wisconsin this week. >> these republican people are >> i think it's definitely helping the republican party right now. i say go for it. bring it on. >> we're just digging in our heels deeper to fight what they're going to do. and we will do it by voting. >> hi. my name is alicia. i'm with the democratic party. >> reporter: but driving democrats, the bitter sting of 2016, and the determination to not have it happen again. >> if i can convince at least one, maybe two every time i talk
and i take a packet out, that's going to sway an election. >> reporter: we're talking and it's snowing out. >> i'm going to keep doing it through the snow. i've done it through worse. we're a swing state, but we can swing back. >> cnn. let's get some perspective from van jones and jess mcintosh, a former communications director for hillary clinton. van, is there any surprise for you in these numbers in battleground states? >> yeah. you know, i think that those national numbers have been looking so good. you know, everybody sees the national numbers. like every single democrat. >> i don't know why anyone pays attention to national numbers at this point. >> they feel so good, you know. every single democrat beats trump by 30 points. then you look at the battleground states. we have two extraordinary progressive candidates, bernie and elizabeth warren. and in the enthusiasm is there.
but i think people are going to have to start to think about what does the country really want? does the country want peace and normally, or do we want more of, i guess, a counter-disruption. that's the question right now. is it time to heal from the wounds of the trump era, or is it time to try to fix the system that led to the trump era? i think this party is still working that out. >> jess, there certainly still seems to be a lot of folks on the republican side who are energized and outraged by the impeachment battle. >> absolutely. i think that, you know, the candidates are more or less within a margin of error in terms of who beats trump by one or loses by two. but this should be a really chilling poll for democrats everywhere. trump can win this election. i think it's really easy while we're sitting here in impeachment, looking at the national polls, seeing the incredible turnout of 2017 and 2018, to think that we've got this. but trump can absolutely win this. >> just in conversations with people in the airports and
wherever i go, i say that all the time. he very well might win again. and people -- like democrats, i don't know if they're living in a bubble or if they're just delusional, but they seem shocked by that. >> we have to remember we don't just have to win the electoral college this time. we have to win despite the racist policies that unfairly suppress a lot of our base and despite whatever foreign help he's going to solicit during -- we have a deck that is stacked against us as democrats largely, and we have to overcome that with more people. >> and there's still the debate about -- i mean as you point out, centrist policies is taking -- is medicare for all or fix obamacare or -- >> i think for the progressive wing of the party, we just don't want to lose the same way twice. that's the thing. it's like put up the moderate that can get it done. don't go with the bernies. that's too crazy. it's like lucy and the football. if we lose the same way twice, oh, we hate the world and ourselves. but on the other hand, these
numbers are very, very chilling. and the reality is if nothing else, i think progressives have to be honest and say, look, this is going to be an uphill climb for an elizabeth warren or for bernie sanders especially in the battleground states. if we're going to sign up for that, it's going to take a lot more work. >> also if you look at fund-raising, the trump campaign has been doing great. >> oh, yeah, obviously. and we're being outspent massively online right now and have been for many, many months. we are just starting to catch up to that. >> which also explains -- some of the numbers are -- the trump organization is doing a really effective job of advertising right now into those states, and while we're fighting each other over how much opening of the border should we do, the other side is relentlessly defending the president online and elsewhere in those battleground states. >> so what's the next step? what should democrats -- >> i don't actually see this as much of a narrative that feeds
into the progressive versus moderate conversation that we're having. i don't think that the solution is winning over trump voters from 2016. only 26% of the country voted for him in the first place, and hillary clinton got 3 million more of the votes that were actually cast. i think at this point what we want to do, the smart strategy is on building on the success that we saw in 2017 and 2018 with dramatic expansion of the electorate. the margin in wisconsin that she lost by was smaller than the number of black voters we now know were unfairly disenfranchised. that should be a focus. >> jess mcintosh, appreciate it. van jones, always. at the end of the another day for the history books, the president has just spoken out, if you can call it that. we'll show you next. at bayer, we're helping put more gold into the golden years. with better heart treatments,
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business of the country. we end the program with his latest tweet. quote, vote for sean spicer in dancing with the stars. ize a great and very loyal guy who's working very hard. #maga. what more can you say? the news continues. let's turn things over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. thank you so much for joining us. tonight house democrats are handing republicans exactly what they claim that they wanted publicly, to publicly release the closed door testimony from two big witnesses in the impeachment inquiry. well, the former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, who was abruptly recalled in may, and michael mckinley, a former top adviser to secretary of state mike pompeo who quit last month, and what they have to say tells a story of the ambassador -- how she got booted from her job, because she was getting in the way of what the president wante