tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper CNN November 10, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪ wall to wall. the impeachment inquiry enters a new public phase. americans will hear for themselves the allegations against president trump. >> i'm not concerned about anything. >> will televised hearings change that? and the buck stops where? top officials suggest that the quid pro quo went all the way up to the white house acting chief of staff. >> we do that all of the time. get over it. >> and a former adviser signals he could reveal new information. so who was directing the u.s. stance toward ukraine? i'll speak to ron johnson next. plus room to grow. a surprise announcement shakes up the 2020 presidential race as
michael bloomberg makes a play for the democratic nomination. is he right to doubt the 2020 contenders? >> we have to make sure that we have a candidate that brings people with us. >> amy klobuchar joins me to discuss, next. hello, i'm jake tapper in washington where the state of the union is on the brink. today is the beginning of what could be a pivotal week in the impeachment inquiry. when americans will get to hear for the first time directly from three witnesses at the center of the investigation. the public hearings are set to begin after the release of transcripts showing two key witnesses, staffers dr. fiona hill who has since left the white house and lieutenant colonel alexander vindman testified they were told that the push to get ukraine to open investigation news the bidens and the 2016 election was
coordinated by chief of staff mick mulvaney. on friday mulvaney defied a congressional subpoena refusing to testify, instead asking to join a lawsuit that will settle whether certain current and former white house officials can be forced to testify. this could set up a potential constitutional crisis. as the white house exerts executive privilege over some of the witnesses kolgs believes -- congress believes is most crucial to the investigation. republicans have released a list of witnesses they want called to publicly testify as part of the inquiry including hunter biden and the whistle-blower. in a letter released late saturday house intelligence chairman adam schiff said the whistle-blower will not be called saying that testimony is, quote, redundant and unnecessary. joining me now to discuss all of this, a republican senator who has been directly involved in u.s./ukraine policy, senator ron
johnson and the chairman of the senate homeland security committee. thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> good morning, jake, how are you doing. >> so if we can first, i would like to try to get some information because you had a window in a lot of this that the rest of us don't have. on august 31st you called president trump to ask him, point blank, whether military aid to ukraine was being held up in exchange for ukraine publicly announcing these political investigations and you say that the president strongly denied it. but one day later on september 1st ambassador sondland as he testified to congress, quote, spoke individually with mr. yermak the ukrainian adviser where i said, this is sondland speaking, that the resumption of the u.s. aid would likely not occur until they provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for weeks. and just to be clear what that means by the abt corruption effort, theef tort to prompt the
ukrainians to investigate joe biden or his son or to investigate the 2020 election campaign. how -- so how do you reconcile they needed to announce that publicly if they wanted the aid one day after president trump told you strongly that was not the case? >> well, first of all let me correct your pontiffication of where i called the president. to try to convince him to let me let president zelensky know i was go tock make a trip to ukraine the following week and i met with him with senator murphy on september 5th and i was trying to get him to give me the clearance to tell president zelensky the aid would be provided. so when i asked him that, again very consistent. he said, ron, you know what a corrupt place it is. and besides ron, why isn't european stepping up to the plate. and i talked to angela merkel and why don't you provide
funding and she said you will. you're shmucks and that is the rational provided to me and other peoples after why he had serious legitimate reservations for providing hard earned tax dollars for did. >> and can i just -- >> listen -- >> go ahead. it is not true that you're -- it is not true that europe doesn't help the ukrainians. i just want to -- this is not you saying it. it is president trump. >> i'm just -- i'm not here to argue with you. >> i want our viewers to know. >> i'm here to provide, i wasn't to correct the one thing that president trump said because the organization of economic and cooperation and development said the eu contributed $204 million. and the president's impression is in correct. go ahead, i'm sorry. >> yeah, jake, i'm not here to
argue the individual points i'm trying to give you what exactly happened. >> please. >> so your listeners hear different view points and per spe spectives so with gordon sondland the day before he described some type of -- something that ukraine had to do before president trump would release the funding and when i brought up that scenario president trump immediately and i've described as adamantly and vehemently denied it. and that is the purpose. so going back to the may 23rd meeting in the oval office and this is what kurt volker testified that president trump basically said. i can't -- i don't have the -- my impression with the exact quote was but this is largely true and kurt volker said this is what president trump said about ukraine. they're all corrupt and i don't want to spend any time with that. that is his general feeling of ukraine. one of the things i was trying to do, we're all trying to do is get him to meet with president zelensky. we felt he would be every bit as impressed with president
zelensky's dedication to fulfilling his mandating to not only defeat and fight corruption but as he said in hi speech in ukraine that murphy and i attended to defeat corruption. we were very confident that if president trump would meet president zelensky he would feel a soul mate and the support would flow. and also, jake, i have to point out, found out about the with holding -- or the hold up about the end of august, august 28th or 29th and the funding was released by september 11th due to pressure put on by people like my and senator portman and durbin -- >> and also the whistle-blower complaint. >> go ahead. >> and the whistle-blower complaint came out days later. >> a lot of us were putting the pressure on. but i remain sympathetic with president trump's legitimate concerns about the corruption when you provide hundreds of million dollars of hard-earned american taxpayer dollars you
want to make sure it is not corrupt. he's been consistent that is the reason for with holding the funding. >> i think the thing is when he spoke with president zelensky on july 25th, the president in all his opposition to corruption only brought up two items, one of them had to do with crowdstrike and this conspiracy theory that the ukrainians actually hacked the dnc and the other one had to do with joe and hunter biden who he named in particular. and that i why a lot of the people who have testified as we learned this week and these are not anti-trumpers who either work for president trump right now or have worked for president trump, they have testified that they came to see that when people talked about corruption, they meant biden. that is what it meant. people, whether it is gordon sondland or fiona hill or lieutenant colonel vindman, one after the other understood your
point of view from oh, for the president to pose corruption in ukraine and who wouldn't oppose corruption but in actuality and i think fiona hill used the term this is code for investigate the bidens. >> again, that is their impression. i've never heard the president say no i want to dig up dirt on a potential 2020 opponent. what i always heard the president consistently concerned about is what happened in 2016. why did this -- how did this false narrative of russian collusion with my campaign occur? why was i strapped with the special counsel. >> and there are two investigations about that, right. there were two investigations -- >> it is a very human desire. jake, you are interrupting me but go ahead and interrupt me again. >> i want to say, in terms of the investigations into the origins, in may the attorney general appointed a former u.s. attorney john durham who is very respected to investigate the origins of the russia investigation. there is also the inspector
general for the justice department investigating whether or not the fbi conducted any fisa abuse or any other abuses. there are investigations into that already by the united states law enforcement community. >> and by the way i continue with my oversight with certainly chuck grassley and interesting things have occurred. the political article back in 2017 named alexander chapula as a american ukrainian hired by the dnc and we found out she visited the white house 27 times during the campaign. in our oversight letter we point out that she had a meeting with 68 ukrainian journalists later and a month later the drop on the dime on paul manafort occurred and nelly orr talking about walking -- >> paul manafort is in prison -- >> politicians completely admitted trying to dig up dirt on president trump as well. so there is a lot of smoke out there. and a lot of questions that remain unanswered and from my
perspective it is a legitimate concern on the part of the president trump to find out what happened. why have i been tormented? where is this effort to sabotage my presidency since the day after the election. i would be asking the same questions. and by the way, i am asking the same questions. >> that is not what president trump is pushing for when he talks about this dnc crowdstrike conspiracy -- >> listen to president trump former homeland security adviser, tom bossert when it came out that president trump was pushing for an investigation into the conspiracy theory, this is what bossert had to say. >> it is not only a conspiracy theory, it is completely debunked. let me just again repeat that it has not validity. the united states government reached its conclusion on attributing to russia the dnc hack in 2016. >> so that is not me. that is president trump's former homeland security adviser.
>> but jake -- jake, that is -- no, listen, listen. that is the server and that is correct. but i just pointed out alexander chalupa worked for the dnc and that is a question that remains open. that is a legitimate concern. and you see in the article asked why was the funding withheld. i would ask a different question. why weren't the ukrainians asking -- concerned about that well before i met with president zelensky on september 5th? i was with president poroshenko on september 18th and there is no problem with this and at the inauguration this wasn't raised. nobody raised the issue of the military funding being withheld so from my standpoint and this is the way i said it to president zelensky, this is a timing issue. this is the end of the -- >> so let me ask you about that timing issue. >> i know mick mulvaney and -- and they're fiscal conservatives why are we spending this three weeks left in the fiscal year. there is another plausible
explanation. >> but they testified this is not being a fiscal conservative for mulvaney, fiona hill and vindman said sondland this agreement, you have to -- to announce public investigations into the bidens was being coordinated by mick mulvaney, does it not concern you that the white house chief of staff reportedly supported this, what is clearly a you have to do this if you want the money. because literally and you know this because you have been a strong advocate for military aid to ukraine literally ukrainians desperately needed this military aid and were dying -- were dying literally being killed between the time that the money was held up in july and when it was released in september. so this isn't just about political games and throwing out names and alexander chalupa, this is about people desperately needing military aid and getting it. >> there is a war going on.
and president obama we authorized weaponry he never supplied it. i would take things that colonel vindman said with a grain of salt because in his testimony he said the obama administration provided javelins and they didn't. it was march 2018 that 210 javelin weapons were finally approved in terms of movement over to ukraine. >> right. >> so again -- >> it doesn't concern you that mulvaney is bringing up this quid pro quo? >> why weren't the ukrainians-why weren't the ukrainians asking me about where is all of the support. >> but sir it doesn't concern you -- >> poroshenko didn't in meetings and it wasn't until the end of august, a few weeks before the end of the fiscal year. >> social murphy said they within concerned about the hold up of the aid. and does it not concern you at all -- >> in september. in august. when they all found ought about it. >> and doesn't it concern you that mick mulvaney has been asserted by gordon sondland that mick mulvaney was saying they
can't get this military aid or a white house meeting unless they publicly announced these corruption investigations which are about burisma and the bidens. that doesn't concern you at all? >> well, from my standpoint, i understand that most of president trump's advisers wanted the military aid released. and they were trying to figure out in some way shape or form to convince president trump to approve that release. what i was trying to do in my phone call to him on august 31st. so i don't have a problem with advisers trying to figure out some way shape or form to convince the boss to do this. but the relevant question is -- >> was this a political investigation into his opponents -- >> when i raised the issue he vehemently and angrily denied there was any kind of condition to release that. he was concerned about corruption and the fact that europe doesn't accept up to the plate and provide as much support as they should because it is in their backyard.
>> that is not true. >> i'm telling you about my oeb conversation with president trump. >> senator ron johnson, we appreciate your time today. thank you very much. >> have a good day. michael bloomberg filed paperwork to join the 2020 campaign. we'll ask amy klobuchar next. stay with us. great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-seven vitamins and minerals. ensure, for strength and energy. there's a company that's talked than me: jd power.people 448,134 to be exact. they answered 410 questions in 8 categories about vehicle quality. and when they were done, chevy earned more j.d. power quality awards across cars, trucks and suvs than any other brand over the last four years. so on behalf of chevrolet, i want to say "thank you, real people." you're welcome. we're gonna need a bigger room.
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welcome back to "state of the union," i'm jake tapper. you could call it the revenge of the billionaires as top 2020 candidates target the uber rich, michael bloomberg is considering jumping into the race. concerned about the strength of the current field. joining me now so discuss is amy klobuchar. senator, thank you so much. congratulations on making the debate stages. we have a lot to get to. >> thanks, jake. >> i want to ask you about impeachment. house republicans are asking to call many of their own witnesses including hunter biden to testify in the impeachment inquiry probe. would you be okay with hunter biden testifying? >> adam schiff has said this, and that is what this is all about, which is a sham investigation that the president was trying to push. and for now the house simply is
gathering relevant evidence about what the president did. that is what this is about. i know they also want to try to get the whistle-blower to testify when, in fact, all sources tell us that what the whistle-blower said was secondhand information and they now have firsthand information of diplomats, military people, others that actually heard these actions occur where the president was pushing for ukraine to start an investigation against his political opponents in exchange for military assistance. that is what all of this mounting evidence is showing. and that is why i would agree with adam schiff, why would you reveal the whistle-blower when you're supposed to have protections which republican senator grassley is vehemently argued for, protections for this whistle-blower. >> so that is a no on hunter biden? >> i see no reason why you would have hunter biden testify when from what all of the report we've seen is this is not a
valid investigation. something with the president was messing around to try to get information against a political opponent. >> let's turn to the latest in the 2020 race. michael bloomberg filed in the 2020 election in alabama, the first state with a filing deadline. the mayor seems to be concerned according to aids that elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are too liberal to beat trump and the moderate candidates such as yourself are not strong enough to win the nomination. is his analysis incorrect. >> yes. very incorrect. i'm gaining momentum all of the time. we're doubling offices in iowa. we got an extraordinary amount of help after the last debate raising $2.1 million at amy klobuchar.com in just six days so we're building an operation that can win. and i have the most endorsements of anyone in iowa of any of the candidates. stepping back to this assertion from his spokesperson, i have seen a lot of excitement about all of our candidates.
i think all of them have served our country and in one way or another and when people look at the white house and see this multi-millionaire including by the way independents and moderate republicans and now he's messing up so many things, i don't think they say oh, we need someone richer. i don't think that, jake. i think you have to earn votes and not buy them. and i certainly welcome mayor bloomberg to the race. he's done incredible work on gun safety, on environmental issues. and it is work of merit. but i don't think you gist waltz in and say in stead of i'm good enough to be president, your argument is the other people aren't good enough that is not how we've been conducting the debates. we're having legitimate debates about who is the strongest person. i think i have the strongest person being from the heartland the place that we need to win. being the one that has won every red and purple congressional district over and over again and someone who can govern from
strength and gotten through the gridlock of washington. i'm looking forward to debating mayor bloomberg about that and not if he comes in to say the rest of the field is not good enough. >> two recent polls show the moderate breaking is south bend, indiana mayor pete buttigieg and you don't believe that he is qualified to be the president. am i reading that wrong? >> yes. i don't think i want to dwell on various press articles. but i'll say this, i think any of the candidates that were on the debate stage were more qualified than the president of the united states right now. >> so more qualified than trump? >> mayor pete -- >> did you think buttigieg is qualified, period? >> yes. but let me explain why i think i am the better candidate -- and by the way we get asked this all of the time. welcome to politics and that is what was in the article. various candidates get asked about each other all of the time and i made what i think was a cogent case and that is that i'm
the one from the midwest that is actually won in a statewide race over and over again including bringing in those voters that just voted in kentucky and those kind of voters. just voted in virginia. brought them over the edge so that he with had strong leaders that were able to win those elections. those are the kind of voters i've won and that is not true of mayor pete. that is just a fact. i also am someone that has passed multiple bills as a lead democrat, important bills in washington, d.c. he's had a different experience. we should be able to have those debates about candidates without being accused of being negative. all of this is questions asked and the last point i made in the article of women on the stage i'm focusing here on my fellow women senators, senator harris and warren and myself, do i think we would be standing on that stage if we had the experience that he had? no, i don't.
maybe we're held to a different standard. but my goal is to get the best candidate to lead the ticket. i believe that's me. that is why i have been able to attract the kind of support that i have in the early states and i'm doing this the right way, running a grassroots campaign. >> senator, you're 2020 opponents former vice president joe biden and senator elizabeth warren are feuding, i think it is fair to say, after biden say the way warren is pushing for medicare for all is, quote, elitist. do you agree the way she pushes her plans and suggests that her plan is the right one and joe biden should run in a different primary if he's going to repeat republican talking points? do you agree this is elitist? >> let me separate these things. i don't think elizabeth warren is elitist. i don't think that is -- that is not the adjective i would use to describe her in any way. i think she's pushing for a policy that i don't agree with. and would kick 149 million americans off of their health
care in just four years. their current health care. that is a fact that says it on page eight of the bill of the sanders/warren bill. that being said, i think there is a better way with one big bold idea and that is having a competitive nonprofit option that could compete with the insurance companies and bring the prices down. i also think that we need to take on the pharmaceutical companies in a big way. work that i've done with senator sanders and that means bringing in less expensive drugs from other countries, that means allowing unleashing medicare to negotiate and getting rid of the prohibition, i lead that bill and i will get that done as president. and it also means looking at the house proposal which is a great one to put a cap on some of the prices and save taxpayers $350 billion. those are bold ideas, jake. and there is no monopoly on good ideas. and that is a point i would make about senator warren's and senator sanders proposal.
i would not call them elitist. >> but they would say the individuals would be kicked off private insurance and covered by the medicare for all. thank you so much senator klobuchar. no firsthand knowledge is he right? we'll break down the testimony next. them.s here to help serve that's why we're offering 50% off family lines for military, veterans and first responders. so they can stay connected, on our newest, most powerful signal ever. and now, we are also offering half off our top samsung phones for military, veterans and first responders. our service is just one way we say thank you... for theirs. whwhat do you see?he world, we see patterns. relationships.
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it seems that nobody has any firsthand knowledge. there is no firsthand knowledge. and all that matters is one thing, the transcript. and the transcript is perfect. >> not sure about the transcript being perfect but he is true that the firsthand testimony has not come yet. president trump distancing himself today -- or this week, from new testimony released this week where are key officials with the firsthand knowledge. they're not to be found. and first i have a little house
cleaning, i want to hold up car ieb jean pierre book "moving forward." thank you very much. and we have two veterans at the table and i wan to say thank you so much for your sacrifices and your service. really appreciate it. congresswoman, let me start with you. it does seem essential that rudy giuliani and mick mulvaney who has the first hahand knowledge testify and are we ever going to hear from them. >> that is a great question. i've been a congressman for just about a year or so, so i could remember when i could remember not watching tv and in afghanistan you see how ridiculous politics is. and if there is nothing to hide. then just come up and speak with these committees. this is not difficult. this is checkers, not chess. >> and we're on the trump campaign advisory committee, david. what do you think? it is not a bad argument. if there is nothing to hide then
mulvaney and giuliani should testify. >> and this is politics at the highest level played on both sides. this isn't about an truth as much as it is politics and so i think there is absolutely zero to gain from earth gentleman to testify and the perjury trap that mr. sondland that he almost got himself into. >> what do you think. >> there is zero to gain. there is truth to gain. if you put somebody under oath you hope to get the truth and these are the people who do have firsthand knowledge. mulvaney is now joined the lawsuit to say court tell me what to do. because i'm caught between two branches of government. and there you have the president saying oh, yeah, mick mulvaney, yeah, i'm fine with him goodi - going up and if you are fine with him going up, why not send him up. >> this is a potential constitutional crisis because there is no way that giuliani and mulvaney want to go willing
will, they've made that clear. and so it is the question of the executive privilege being asserted by the white house versus congress saying we're subpoenaing you. >> i go back to this. the do me a favor though. >> in the transcript. >> in the transcript. and we saw the memo of that transcript. and this is what donald trump says. he admitted to it. so when they talk about the whistle-blower, ah, that argument is kind of moot now. and we talk about the -- the depositions and diplomat after diplomat have gone on record to say that to give their first account of what happened. the president has admitted it in the memo. he admitted in front of the cameras. mick mulvaney admitted it. his lawyer giuliani admitted it. we already know where we stand with this because the truth is out there. we're just digging in to make sure to connect the dots. >> this is where we disagree and the testimony -- there is no testimony and, jake, you said this earlier in your earlier
segment, senator johnson said this as well, the testimony from all of the officials say we're talking about a meeting, a potential meeting between president zelensky and that is the only firsthand knowledge that anybody has to talk about. you'll see whether it is tim morrison who said -- >> the national security staffer. >> he was first on the call and so vindman was too. the only two people who were participants in the call said -- morrison said i didn't like it but i don't think it is illegal and nobody talks about there was no discussion of aid during any of the -- >> yeah, vindsman was so upset about this. this is a leent colonel, a decorated veteran and a purple heart recipient that he went to his boss and john bolton didn't want to be part of the drug deal and they went to -- >> don't disagree that colonel vindman doing what he thinks is correct. people have differences of
opinion. in you go to foggy bottom and ask about iran or the paris accord you get a lot of people pushing back -- >> one person can vote on this. >> way too much in the weeds right now. okay, so there is just very important questions here. why, when the president of the united states, had the opportunity to bring up anyone -- anyone in the world, why did he bring up the biden family during that conversation? >> in a rough transcript. >> and moreover -- one sec, one sec. is it okay though for a president, a senator, a congress person to use their office to advance their own self-interest. i'm sure you don't think that is okay. and so that is all we're trying to get to the bottom of and we continue to obfuscate and deflect and talk about this person and that person. you are not seeing the big picture here. which is the fact that potentially -- potentially and that is all we're trying to get to, the president of the united states talking about draining the swamp and he became part of
it. >> so what the president says and with the answer to that question is, is talking about corruption. talking about corruption with senator johnson and talked about corruption on a numerous attempts. saw ukraine as a cesspool of corruption. >> but that is not true. >> i have to -- i have to squeeze in a quick break. we'll keep the conversation going. coming up, several democrats are sharpening criticism of elizabeth warren and are some of the words rubbing voters the wrong way. that is up next. searching for a way to help stop your cold sore? only abreva can get rid of it in...
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i have no, no probe with him getting in the race. >> i think he's going to hurd biden actually but he doesn't have the magic to do well. little michael will fail. >> oh, my goodness. how important. how monumental that he's running for president. >> it is not enough just to have somebody come in, anybody, and say they're going to buy this election. >> the candidates standing between former new york city mayor michael bloomberg and the oval office weighing in on his possible 2020 bid. let's discuss. karine jean-pierre what do you make of the surprise announcement from bloomberg. >> if he does decide to do it it is clearly an uphill battle. it doesn't matter how much money you have, you can't, like they say, buy an election. and there is another piece of
this. which is you cannot win the democratic nomination or a democrat can't without getting overwhelming support from african-americans or the black community. one of the problems that michael bloomberg has is stop and frisk that he over saw at mayor of new york city and that overwhelmingly put black and latino men in prison which was seen as a civil rights violation. so how does he get through that? so there is more to this than he -- he really needs to think about. >> he was your mayor. you're a fellow new york city moderate democrat. >> sure. >> what do you think? >> a few things. one is another short new yorker, i'm deeply offended by the president and i would like to aplau mayor jenkins is who the only one not to involve himself in 2020 drama. this is not about left or middle. where the american people are, both the primary and the general leeektor
leeektorat is the special interest and are you side of the hard earnings that are ripped off and the more the merrier. let's see what happens. it is a year away. he can't buy it. so let's see what he will say. >> it is sort of unfortunate because bloomberg does have two very important issues which should matter to the democrats, climate and guns. and he's spent a lot of his wealth promoting these issues so he should be a credible candidate but i have to agree with karine, it is a difficult uphill battle. i thought he would have gotten into the republican primary and challenged president trump and then at least we'd have one real billionaire in the race. >> a recent fox news poll before he announced, only 6% of democratic voters would definitely support bloomberg and 8% for michelle obama and 30%
for hillary clinton and that is the highest over the 30% please don't run for hillary clinton. so he doesn't come into the race popular with democrats. >> it is amazing what a billion dollars will do for you. you spend a billion dollars of your own money. kevin sheikhy who is the strategist who is a talented guy and michael bloomberg is a very smart guy and i wouldn't put it past him to move the numbers. i think it is interesting that democrats have two billionaires running in the primary, tom steyer and michael bloomberg and two socialists and that shows you the expanse between the party. they can't figure out which way they are going -- >> -- is not a socialist. >> close to a socialist. it shows you the expanse and the struggle for the soul of the democrat. >> party and where they end up. he's a moderate. that is where america wants to end up but two different spectrums. >> you're talking about democrats and the soul of the -- of the party and your party has donald trump?
>> he's -- >> providing the country constantly -- >> in the republican party he's 90 plus percent. >> you want to talk about tuesday or virginia and how it turned blue. >> sure, it is fine. sure. >> how republicans are leaving the republican party. >> that is true. >> i think david makes an important point and it is one -- >> say that again, linda. >> and there is actually is diversity in the democratic party and there is none in the republican party. >> and happy veterans day. thank you for honoring us with your presence here today and you two. it is aquestion on a lot of people's minds what happened to senator lindsey graham? that is next. lf the story? at t. rowe price, hundreds of our experts go beyond the numbers to examine investment opportunities firsthand. like a biotech firm that engineers a patient's own cells to fight cancer. this is strategic investing.
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from us this sunday, we invited the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, lindsey graham to the show this week. we were told he was unavailable. we wanted to ask graham about his views of the mounting evidence that president trump's team was pushing ukraine to publicly announce an investigation into the bidens. about the $400,000 in aide would not happen without that announcement. graham's public statements on the matter have been confusing. on september 25th after the white house released that rough call transcript between president trump and ukrainian president zielinski, graham called the call a, quote, nothing, nonquid pro quo burger. >> if you're looking for a circumstance where the president of the united states was threatening the ukraine can cutting off aide unless they investigated his political opponent, you would be very disappointed. that does not exist. >> then in october, graham told
axios that other evidence beyond the rough transcript might change his mind. >> if you could show me that trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing? . >> we now have reams of evidence. testimony from multiple trump administration diplomats and national security officials current and former suggesting that outside that phone call ambassador gordon sonland, rudy giuliani, acting white house chief of staff all were pushing ukraine to investigate the bidens if they wanted that aide in that white house meeting. now the judiciary committee chairman has a different and brand new take. >> what i can tell you about the trump policy toward the ukraine, it was incoherent. it depends on who you talk to. they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo.
>> on october 9th he tweeted if house democrats refuse to release the full strans script of kurt volker's testimony as requested by congressman jordan, it will be an abuse of power. as they were released, the chairman of the senate judiciary committee said he was not going to read any of the transcripts. >> reporter: do you plan on reading any of the transcripts? >> no. i don't care what anybody else said about the phone call. the phone call i made up my own mind is fine. i think this is a bunch of bs. >> beyond the fact that reading the transcripts is, you know, grap's job, as senate judiciary chairman. his statement recalled nothing so much as earl landgreen when asked about a new set of nixon
tapes, the congressman said don't confuse me with the facts. i've got a closed mind. i'm going to stick with my president. now, we see plenty of folks like that in congress today, but it is jarring to hear similar sentiments from graham who as house impeachment manager during the clinton impeachment, and then saw and perhaps still sees himself as someone willing to be independent with allegiance not to any politician but to the public, rule of law, to the u.s. constitution. graham spoke on the senate floor after the loss of his friend mccain. >> don't look to me to replace this man. look to me to remember what he was all about and try to follow in his footsteps. >> is senator lindsey graham trying to follow in the footsteps of john mccain? or is he trying to follow in the
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this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'll fareed zakaria. we'll start with the tour of the globe. french president macron's claim that nato is facing brain death in the trump era. ukraine's continued central role in america's impeachment inquiry. and china, will xi get a new trade deal with trump? all that with our panel.