tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper CNN November 17, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. ♪ secure line? a u.s. official said he heard president trump push for ukraine investigations. again. >> nothing about the first time. >> as the man on the other end of the line prepares to testify publicly. what will he say about the president's orders? i'll speak to a republican on the house intelligence committee, congressman mike turner, next. and unforce the error? the president goes after a witness on twitter. while she was testifying about feeling under attack. >> it's very intimidating. >> democrats seize on the tweet as potentially illegal. >> we take this kind of witness intimidation and obstruction inquiry seriously. >> democratic senator chris murphy joins me next.
plus, taking the lead. there's a new frontrunner in iowa. >> it's encouraging and there's a long way to go. >> the sound bend, indiana mayor surpasses his rivals in the first caucus state. can he do the same across the country? ♪ >> i'm jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is trying to keep up. after a difficult week, president trump is waking up to not so great news politically. john bell edwards narrowly won re-election in louisiana. and traveling to the state to campaign twice in the past two weeks. trying to make the louisiana race a referendum on impeachment. this as new details are piling up quickly on saturday. newly released transcripts revealed that former national security council tim morrisson testified that ambassador sondland claimed to be acting in president trump's direction in he his dealings with ukraine.
it included, according to morrisson, sondland telling the ukrainians to publicly announce investigations into the bidens, if they wanted the military aid released. it wants more push on sondland, ahead of his expected public testimony on wednesday. this on top of new testimony on friday from david holmes who described the phone call he overheard between sondland and president trump. according to a copy of his opening statement, holmes heard sondland said "president zelensky loves your ass." joining me now a member of the house intelligence committee, republican congressman mike turner of ohio. congressman, thank you so much for joining us this morning. i want to start with that testimony from david holmes, the top political advisor at the u.s. embassy of ukraine. he heard president trump ask whether zelensky was going to do the investigation and sondland made it clear that the president
was asking about the investigation into the bidens. what was your reaction? >> the travesty, jake, this is testimony that continued to happen down in the basement of the capitol. you should be playing the tape. not leaked transcripts. i'm currently under a gag order because the way the adam schiff is doing this in secret, you don't have the actual testimony and i can't comment. i think this is important. you know, clearly we all understand that zelensky of ukraine would not do anything for donald trump. the investigations never happened. let me give you an example of real time of the danger of this happening in secret and why this shouldn't be happening. nothing classified is happening down there. and the testimony that you just heard from ambassador taylor last week, ambassador taylor spoke of a phone call between sondland and taylor. it was a phone call speculations in the media. they were texting and ambassador sond land said "call me."
many networks reported it was scandalous and he was trying to hold back the information as to what the conversation was. in fact, sondland had testified in the secret chamber the reason he said wasn't nefarious. he didn't want to continue typing. and ambassador taylor last week confirmed once they got on the phone together that sondland reported there was no quid pro quo. there were reports that text was going to be the smoking gun. and the reason why you didn't know that all those sondland had testified is because it's happening in secret and, jake, it should not be happening in secret. >> okay. you have an issue with there being private depositions, even though, of course, that's how republicans ran the committee when they were in charge, as well. beyond that, sir, i'm asking you to address the -- >> we did classified. but you should have a problem with it, jake. >> i like all the information. of course, i like all the information to be in the public, and i'm happy they're releasing the transcripts and happy they're having the hearings in the open and the public now. absolutely 100%. more transparent si, please.
that said, i'm asking you to address the substance of what holmes said he heard which was president trump telling sondland, he's going to do the information. that must alarm you? >> well, i can only comment on the portion which is public, which is, you know, ambassador taylor in his opening statement last week. >> right. >> referenced this phone conversation. i'll talk about ambassador taylor. under the gag order from adam schiff, i'm not able to talk about what holmes said. what ambassador taylor said is that the aid had overheard the word investigations. now, as you know, you personally watched donald trump at a microphone say he thought that ukraine should undertake an investigation of burisma and the biden's connections to that. you actually know as much as he does. that's a scandalous about the fact he claims to have overheard this conversation, which happened the day after the conversation with president zelensky. that conversation, which you
have the read out of, the words of the president and he's confirmed is the same thing. he offers nothing new. he offers the same information, still no quid pro quo. still no smoking gun. still the same information but according to the democrats, because they're leaking information to you, it's a bombshell >>well, i mean, gordon sondland, according to tim morrisson, who testified -- the transcript was released on saturday, so you can talk about it. there's to gag order. it's been released. tim morrisson said that sondland went to euromax one of the top aids to zelensky and said -- this is morrisson saying, sondland, quote "relaid to me that the president was giving him instruction. sondland and mull vvaney report the president. according to sondland, he said if you want the money released, publicly announce these investigations." does that not alarm you?
>> well, of course, all of that is alarming. as i've said from the beginning, thing is not okay. the president of the united states shouldn't even in the original phone call be on the phone with the president of another country and raise his political opponent. so wi so, no, it's not okay. if you look at sondland's testimony, which is public, he said the direction he received was no quid pro quo and he said he wants nothing. he wants him to do the right thing. so sondland testified and this is the first time, by the way, that you have direct testimony of someone speaking to the president and relating what the president has said and what he says directly contradicts these statements that are largely hearsay of someone saying i heard from someone else who heard from someone else. when you asked sondland, you've got his testimony, around page 124. he said i was told by the president of the united states, i want nothing. i want him to do the right thing. we'll center to wait for sondland's testimony, which is
direct not testimony. it's not testimony that heard from somebody who heard from somebody. >> i hope sondland tells the truth. he had to amend his deposition. >> i hope everybody tells the truth. >> agreed. >> and what i would like is the people who are leaking information to you guys tell the truth. because story after story happens where you report what happened in triptds and then when they come out, they don't match. >> that's not true. >> being straight with you. >>well, most of them -- >> what happened on that phone call between sondland and taylor and you can go to page 225 -- >> okay. i'm -- in the interest of time, i would like to focus on what the president did and what you think about it. because i guess one question i have is perhaps sondland and you have mulvaney publicly saying that in order for people -- either publicly saying it or saying in the depositions behind closed doors. in order for them to the get the money or the white house meeting, they need to do the
investigations. we have giuliani pushing for political investigations into the bidens. do you think that sondland -- >> actually -- you don't have that. you don't have that. because you have the testimony sondland where he says the opposite, jake. he says the opposite. >> he said president trump -- that's another thing that is interesting. he said president trump says there's no quid pro quo. tell them. but they need to do such and such. so just saying something isn't a quid pro quo when you're demanding someone says or something does doesn't vanish. it doesn't make the quid pro quo inherit vanish. do you really think that there are no ukrainians -- let me ask you this question. do you think there are no ukrainians under the infraction they needed to publicly announce these investigations in order to get the white house meeting or the aid, the $400 million they desperately needed. you think no you crukrainians t?
>> the only thing i can speak to, the foreign minister came out with his statement, both stated they were not under that impression. that they did not believe it was tied. and they didn't believe there was pressure. i can only tell you what is the public accounts of what you yan began statements have been. and their statements have been that's not true. >> let me ask you another question. president trump was attacking ambassador -- apparently blaming her for what happened in somalia and ukraine and other places. chairmanship read her the tweet during the hearing. i'm sure she would have read it during the break, anyway. she said she found it intimidating. does it concern you at all that a witness found what president trump tweeted to be intimidating? >> well, i mean, jake, i think along with most people, i find the president's tweets
generally, unfortunate, but let's state this, i think it's important about this. and that is that adam schiff has been on a three-year request to impeach the president. he replaced the staff. he changed the staff so it became an impeachment staff. for three years, he's been pursuing it. it's kind of laughable that in the middle of the hearing, he reads a witness a tweet that she's, up until that point, unaware of and said i have another reason to impeach the president. he's had reasons for three years. he'll continue to. he's on the quest for impeachment. he's obsessed with impeaching the president of the united states. and the majority of the democrats were on record of wanting to impeach the president before the ukrainian call happened. i'm sure we'll continue to see the long list of new reasons why adam skiff -- >> i get you don't like congressman schiff. >> i think he doesn't like the president.
you find it concerning the witness in real time find the president's tweet to be, quote, intimidating. >> it's not impeachable, it's not intimidated. she was actually in the process of testifying. nonetheless -- it's unfortunate. >> if she's said she's intimidated how it was not witness intimidation? >> well, there's a difference between i feel intimidated. i'm intimidated to testify which is what schif wf was saying. she testified completely and fully. hopefully you watched it. i was there. she was in no means intimidated and prevented from testimony. >> just like you're not a mind reader. i have no idea whether it affected her testimony. if she said she found it intimidating. is it not possible she held back or shaded her answers because she didn't want to upset the most powerful person in the universe any further? is that not possible?
>> well, i think you overstate donald trump's powers, hopefully. but we had a lot of discussions with the ambassador about feelings. i think that the real aspect is when we had straight testimony. i think that testimony was not inhibited. >> congressman turner of ohio, it's great in dayton. we appreciate your time today. >> thank you. u.s. ambassador told president trump that ukraine's president "loves your ass." we'll talk about whether that's true. and a new poll showing a clear new frontrunner in iowa and it's not even close! we'll take a look at the numbers. stay with us. t. rowe price experts go beyond the numbers to examine investment opportunities firsthand, like biotech. because your investments deserve the full story. t. rowe price invest with confidence.
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper. my next guest has a unique perspective. he met with ukraine's president over the summer while the u.s. was holding up the military aid. joining me now, democratic senator chris murphy of coun connecticut. i want you to take a look at what the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, tweeted this morning. "quote "after three witnesses no evidence has been presented of
any offense. the first two permanent diplomats had no direct knowledge, just overhearing things. the third had no knowledge, not even hearsay. this is a travesty." what is your response to mr. giuliani? >> well, the crimes and the offenses that have been detailed in this testimony are absolutely damming. it's clear what happened. the president was using taxpayer dollars, security aid to ukraine, at a white house meeting in order to extort the you cran began president trying to interfere in the 2020 election and trying to help the president destroy the bidens and clintons. and ambassador taylor and george kent testified to the fact they were carrying out the orders of the white house to get this corrupt deal done. now, the white house is going to rely on this idea that the people who are getting the direct orders from the president were talking with the president directly are largely not testifying before the committe. of course, there's a reason for that. the white house isn't allowing
them to testify before the committee. the white house is violating the law in keeping them from the impeachment inquiry. why? they know those are the individuals who were actually getting most of the direct orders from the president and they don't want that to be on the record. so the white house can't have it both ways. the white house can't say well, you know, mick mulvaney and giuliani aren't testifying. there's a reason. the white house is prohibiting them. >> kent and taylor didn't say they were carrying out these, as you put it, corrupt orders. they said they heard about them and objected to them >>well, but, you know, that's how civil servants work. right. they get orders from the white house, often through intermediaries, in this case, it was clear that sondland was talking directly to the president and coordinating an effort among the ukraine team to tell the ukrainian president he wasn't going to get his security aid unless he started investigating the president's political opponents.
i think we're going to learn that sondland, as we already know, was pretty regularly talking to the president and, in addition, rudy giuliani and mick mulvaney were talking to the president and they were telli volker and others to carry out the orders. >> they told ukrainian news agencies that ambassador sondland did not tell us and me about a connection between the assistance and the investigations. i have never seen a direct relationship between investigations and security assistance." yes, the investigations were mentioned, you know, in the conversation of the president's but there was no clear connection between these events. that's the ukrainian foreign minister. how do you respond to that? >> well, i respond to that by noting that sondland himself took the extraordinary step of going back and amending his testimony to make absolutely clear that, yes, indeed he did tell the ukrainians they were not going to get their security
aid unless they opened up investigations that the white house was recommending. we all know the only two investigations that the president mentioned to president zelensky was the investigation into the bidens and the investigation that would re-litigate the 2016 election. now the ukrainians are going to try to put a spin on this. they won't accuse the president of extortion. they are presently reliant on the good will of trump in order to keep their country safe. they can't take on the president because at any moment, he could stop the security aid once more. nobody should be surprised when the ukrainians are trying to put a good spin on this or trying to stay in the president's good graces. h he still holds enormous leverage over that country's independence and sovereignty. >> a lot of democrats care about the quid pro quo that ukraine, in the case, as you noted, relies on sondland. he's testifying on wednesday in
an open hearing. now, as you noted, sondland already amended his closed-door testimony once. he didn't mention anything about the july 26th phone call between trump and sondland that david holmes testified about on friday. david holmes said he heard president trump pushing for the investigations. is sondland a credible witness? if not, how can democrats rely on his testimony? >> well, sondland clearly didn't tell the truth in his initial testimony. i don't know why he decided to ultimately come clean about the fact they were engaged in an extortion campaign but he did so. and i think over the weekend, mr. sondland has to decide whether his primary loyalty is to america or whether his primary loyalty is to the president of the united states. it seems clear he was, in fact, talking pretty regularly, potentially with the president directly. if that was the case, he needs to explain that. ultimately this is about his
legacy. if it comes out he mislead the committee in his initial testimony or outright lied. there are real consequences for him down the line. >> holmes, david holmes who testified friday, he said he was a note taker for the meeting that you and senator ron johnson had with zelensky of ukraine. holmes testified that senator johnson told zelensky he was shocked by president trump's negative view of ukraine that zelensky, in his view, would have a difficult time overcoming. what was zelensky's response to johnson telling him that the president, president trump, had a negative view of ukraine? >> well, you know, we walk into the meeting and normally you engage in diplomatic formalities at the beginning. that's not how the meeting went. zelensky launched into the question about the security aid. and desperately wanted our help and advice how to turn the aid back on. so part of the meeting was about
trying to he trying to help him secure a meeting with the president to help the aid flow once more. i reminded him it won't help ukraine for them to get involved in american elections and he shouldn't be listening to giuliani's corrupt request and he agreed. he understood that ukraine needed to stay out of american politics. but, of course, it was life and death that the security aid did get turned on. he was going to have soldiers dying as they were during the time we were there on the border. so, you know, it was a tense meeting because senator johnson was relying what the president told him about corruption in ukraine being an issue, and, of course, i didn't know at the time, behind the scenes, they were telling zelensky what corruption meant was getting investigations started to help destroy the president's political opponents. >> yanovich was testifying about
hunter biden. take a listen. >> quote, the way that the question was phrased in this model q & a was what can you tell us about hunter biden's, you know, being named the board of burisma? for the millions of americans watching, president obama's own state department was so concerned about potential conflicts of interest from hunter biden's role they raised it themselves. >> i get that in your view what is going on now with president trump is a much, much bigger deal and much more important than the hunter biden situation, but point-blank, should hunter biden have thank you role while his dad was vice president? >> well, i think in an interr , interview, hunter biden admitted that he possibly made a mistake. let's be clear, hunter biden didn't do anything illegal and his father didn't do anything
illegal or unethical and the attacks on the biden and the efforts to bring the whistle blower to testify is an attempt to put more chum in the water and distract from the heart of the inquiry. marie wasn't the ambassador at the time. as you know, you often get briefed in anticipation of the confirmation hearings for the worst-case scenario. it's not out of the ordinary for issues like that to come up when she's getting ready for testimony. >> thank you so much for your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you, jake. less than three months until the iowa caucuses. a new break out frontrunner in iowa. what does it mean for the rest of the field? plus, president obama weighing on the 2020 race. his warning to the democratic candidates. that's next. stay with us. of nowhere.
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. that's extremely encouraging. obviously. we have felt a lot of momentum on the ground. even now. we know we're not as well known as some my competitors. so it's very encouraging. at the same time, there is a long way to go. >> south bend, indiana mayor pete buttigieg on his surge on the des moines register, iowa poll. he's the clear frontrunner in the first caucus state among democrats coming in at 25 percent, elizabeth warren is 16, senator sanders and former vice president tied at 15%. we'll discuss. i know there are a lot of progressives who are wary of
mayor pete. they think he's too establishment. he is surging in iowa. what do you think? >> well, i think you have to give it to mayor pete for doing a great job. what occurred to me when i read the poll results, it's a fluid race. >> sure. >> the vast majority of people, including those who have a first choice, are saying they would be able to be moved up in that first choice. and so, you know, you don't have to look very far to see each of these candidates having been at the top of the polls in a month later they're down because that makes them the one to attack. howard dean, december before the year that the election occurred, i think 2003 -- >> yeah. >> he was at the top of the iowa poll, as well. thing is a fluid race. i think voters are still trying to decide and look at all of these candidates and figure out which is the one that is going to be able to address the scale of the crisis that is before people that is on health care, that's on the economy, jobs, these are the issues that i think people are still trying to figure out.
who will fight for me. >> does mayor pete concern you? i feel like you have expressed a desire to run against warren or sanders if you think they would be easier to beat because they're more to the left. what about mayor pete? >> he presents to be more of a moderate. he come out a lot of the same things the rest of the field has. i think the race is fluid. i don't know he's going to be the frontrunner forever. he has a war chest that allows him to be durable. i think the fluidity, though, is with the voters and the candidates. some of the clear reasons warren is suffering right now is because of health care. i mean, the medicare for all position hasn't been popular. she's been struggling with it. why did she pivot away from it? >> if you pick up the newspaper this morning? >> oh, yeah. >> she went to a town hall meeting and saying we're going to do it in year three. after the first midterm of a president's first term, it's a good time to be changing the nation's health care plan. i think she's struggling with
it. she struggled with a lot of positions but thing is causing her suffering in iowa. >> jen, possibly one of the reasons that buttigieg is rising because they see him kind of like the golding locks candidate. not too hot, not too cold, just right. if you look at the polling, not too liberal, not too conservative, about right. wow, there are 3% of people that think sanders is too conservative. okay. got give it to them. in any case, do you think that is the secret to his success? he's appealing to everyone and not too extreme one way or the other? >> i think he's a unique political talent. it is early. i think his campaign is very cognizant of that. but to scott's point, he has a huge war chest. as we heard him say, one of the opportunities here is that people are still getting to know him. as they get to know him, they like him. i think that's, also, what you're seeing in the polls. take south carolina, 21% of the
electorate doesn't know enough about them. he did a $2 million ad buy in south carolina. he has to eat his wheaties before the debate this week. everybody will be after him. i think it's more than the golding locks. i think people are seeing something they like. >> and, congressman love, i want you to listen to something president obama said on friday. you weren't a particular supporter of the president's but it might be something you can agree with. >> we --
>> i absolutely agree with that! it's one of the things i have to agree with scott on. you can't -- you're not going to win independents by going completely to the left. zbli i'm sorry but medicare to all doesn't speak to me and a lot of people. he's saying i'm a little bit reasonable here. he actually pleasant. you know, there's a sense of stability that is there that people are just desperate for. so i'm not surprised he's actually rising in the polls. i think people are looking for a different alternative because they don't really -- they're not necessarily okay with what is in the field now. >> i imagine you might disagree with the former president? >> what i think about is going back to his first race. president obama ran as a visionary candidate. he did not run as pragmatic, practical candidate. he wanted to end the war, end "don't ask don't tell."
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some guy overheard a phone call. i'm sure he'll be a witness next week. we'll get a chance to question him there. >> david holmes doesn't concern you? >> no. not at all. >> republicans down playing new testimony in the house impeachment inquiry and embassy official told investigators he overheard president trump asking sondland about the investigation. let's discuss. republicans say the call isn't any different. mike turner said it this morning. what he said is not any different than what he said in the phone call for cizelensky. we should point out that turner said it's not okay. >> the ultimate question here, to adam schiff's credit, he keeps bringing it back to, is it acceptable that the president of the united states is attempting to a bribe a foreign power in
exchange for information about his ukraine. i the angst and anxiety is far worse than people are presenting. they're saying it doesn't matter. they shouldn't be worried about it. but looking at last week, you had all these incredibly credible and powerful and compelling foreign service officers, people that served our country, not in a partisan way, making the case that the president did something for personal gain. i wouldn't feel good, if i were them. >> if i look at this strategically, i don't know who is advising the president but i'm going to give a shoutout to -- the clinton administration was going through the same thing. he put the president on the northbound train with a vision for the american people so they can focus on something else. and i think that is one of the things that is missing here. you've got the president that is tweeting out while and it's not
helping him at all. i really do believe that the president really has to focus on what he's doing for the american people. the economy, jobs, the fact that things are, you know, going well, i think, in this country. instead of going back to the areas that don't help. >> he could do universal background checks. >> yeah. >> well, you know, gosh, there are things i think that we've been working on for a long time that have gone right. immigration reform. we're going to run out of money november 21st. >> yeah. >> from the president entering the -- during the testimony. take a listen. here is congressman schiff reading the tweet in real time. >> what effect do you think it has on other witnesses' willingness to come forward and expose wrong doing? >> well, umm, it's very
intimidating. >> designed to intimidate, is it not? >> i mean, i can't speak to what the president is trying to do, but i think the effect is to be intimidating. >> so, congresswoman, you're on the house judiciary committee which will draft or not draft the articles of impeachment. it seems that chairman schiff might be saying witness intimidation. >> ting could be. we're looking at all the evidence. we're going to wait for it to come to us. we'll have a fair process to evaluate that, including the president's counsel testifying, if he wants to. here is the thing. i think this week, the last week was a somber moment for the country. it was a good moment for the facts and a bad moment for president trump. because over and over again you have the same patterns, by the way, the same patterns that were articulated in the mueller report. my questioning of mueller was
around witness tampering and witness intimidation on judiciary. this is is a pattern but we're seeing it unfold in front of people. a president bribing a foreign ally to investigate a political opponent, get involved in the election, and withholding this critical aid for a country that is in a very, very destabilizing region and position. >> your expression makes it look like you don't buy it, scott? >> no. i think the democrats would be on firmer ground here if they wouldn't want to continue to try to impeach the president over the tweets. it doesn't make it technically smart. i think the testimony could have come and gone if he not el evaluated it. >> i think that was the highlight and low light of the day. >> putting it as the articles of impeachment is a massive overwriting. they may want to see a president impeaching a president over his tweets works. >> yeah. explain to the workers, a
"washington post" story asked participants in a focus group whether quid pro quo, extrorgs, or bribery was more compelling. they figured to nix the latin. >> all right. thank you for being here. it's been a string of not so beautiful days in the neighborhood as public impeachment hearings increase the divide in the nation. perhaps mr. rogers is what everyone needs to feel better. dw what i was going to do. and then a light bulb went off. i had a sewing machine that was still in the box. i pulled up youtube. i kept watching videos over and over, i finally got to the point where i could make a stitch. and that's how knotzland was born. we make handmade bowties out of repurposed fabrics. because of youtube i'm an entrepreneur. it's been a crazy journey.
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with tom hanks as fred rogers. ♪ it's a beautiful day in this neighborhood a beautiful day for a neighbor would you be mine ♪ >> a respite from the storm of cruelty that mark this is era, time of mean tweets, division and bullying. mr. rogers died 16 years ago. it's tough to know what he would make of today. though his widow, joann, recently offered this. >> people say to you, what do you think he would say? what do you think he would do about all this? and i said it would be about the children. it would be about the immigrants, the children themselves. it breaks my heart. and i know it breaks everybody's heart. >> the sad truth, of course, is that it does not break everybody's heart. but joanne rogers shares her late husband's radical view of humanity, of a god who loves all
of us. she did that interview promoting the documentary of her husband "won't you be my neighbor"? hecklers thaen accosted pam bondi into and out of the theater to see that documentary. would mr. rogers take children away from their parents, one heckler yelled. >> pre-existing conditions, pam bondi. shame on you. >> what would mr. rogers make of those policies? for that matter, what would he make of the heckling of pam bondi? 1998 profile of mr. rogers and their subsequent friendship. >> you don't consider yourself famous? >> fame is a four-letter word, like tape or zoom, or face. but ultimately what matters is what we do with it.
>> writes in the atlantic about the hecklers acosting pam bondi. while it's obvious rogers would be saddened to refuse to depended on civility, of strangers feeling welcome in the public square. civility, he says, couldn't be subject to politics but rather had to be the very basis of politics. this week i asked, what would he say to those like the hecklers that one cannot respond to cruelty with kindness? well that, he replied, that misses the radical part of mr. rogers radical kindness. people remember him as kind, but they missed the part of mr. rogers being demanding. he demanded a lot of us, and treating everyone, even the bullies, even those who advocate for policies we find abhorrent,
treating all of us as children of god as special and who deserve love that, is what mr. rogers demanded. we're in a dark period in politics right now in this period. as impeachment heats up it's assuredly only going to grow darker. we could all do worse than follow the lead of mr. rogers and attempt to remember the humanity of everyone involved, including -- no, especially those whose behavior you find repugnant. radical, indeed. how are ukrainians responding to the ongoing impeachment inquiry? fareed zakaria has that next.
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this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show, the other nation at the center of the i peachment hearings. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. >> ukraine. why does this nation, stuck between east and west, have such an oversized role in this white house matter? and what do actual ukrainians think about the goings on in washington? we'll explore