this is "cnn tonight" i'm don lemon. there's lots of breaking news tonight. we'll catch you up on the headlines. this is big. this is what cnn learned. we have learned an tithed rudy giuliani is associate is ready to tell congress devin nunes the top republican on the house intel committee met with an exukrainian official last year to discuss getting dirt on

biden. something would have been good to know before the public impeachment hearings. sources tell us the coming report from the justice department inspector general will say the fbi properly launched an investigation into russia interference in the 2016 election even though some mistalks were made by lower level employees. not the deep state conspiracy trump has touting. sources say that senators were told in recent classified briefing that russia has been on a long campaign to frame ukraine for interference in the 2016 election. meaning it's all been a russian operation. yet, president trump still pushing the debunk theory ukraine was behind the election interference. after his top expert on russia called it a fictional narrative. speak of joe biden. there's more from my interview. we'll touch on a lot of topics.

when he's the fighter democrats are looking for now. >> they want a fighter. >> i'm a fighter. >> they haven't seen that spirit. >> that's not what the polling says. maybe i have been too polite in the debates. for example -- >> is that changing? >> i'm looking forward to a real debate. >> let's get to the coming report from the justice department inspector general on the fbi russia investigation. let's get straight to it. with that story. very interesting what we're learning. walk us through the reporting. what will the inspector general report reveal? >> i think a line has been made by the republicans and president. fox news. this report is going to place blame on the fbi. the leaders of the fbi at the time. james comey. mccabe. the deputy director and acting

director. somehow they were all wrong and approximate pursuing this investigation. the russia investigation. they were bias and some kind of conspiracy. that is not going to happen. much of it will say the opposite. that the fbi had the right to open the investigation. meddling investigation. and the right predicate. enough support to do this investigation. there was enough information contained they had obtained they can go ahead and open this investigation. so the idea there was a conspiracy, a witch hunt by the fbi to go after the president to go after people in the campaign. that's not going to happen. there's going to be some sloppiness here. that's what the according to people we have talked to that's what the report will focus on. >> fbi. listen that's serious. if you're an fbi agent or work with the fbi and make a mistake. no excuses for that.

this is lower level. this is not what the president and republicans have been saying it's a deep state. this will shoot that down. >> one of those mistakes is that a low level lawyer that was attached to the investigation altered some information in an e-mail sent that somehow was then used as part of the fisa report. >> i want to bring in james clapper. the former director of national intelligence. thank you so much. this inspector general is known to be a thorough investigator. coming back saying no bias at the top of the fbi. what's your take? >> pick up on something you said. he has a reputation for being fair and tough. and so i think without seeing it

i'm sure this is a rigorous investigation and the reporting is right. i think this is generally good news for the country. really. that there may have been procedural errors made. not to minimize what the attorney did. doctor an e-mail. so interesting to see if there's detail on that. by and large there was no conspiracy. no deep state action here. and so, again if the reporting is accurate this is reassuring. >> let's be clear. this is the president's justice department. on the president's orders. doing the president's investigation. >> exactly. and the department of justice ig was in the position in the last administration as well. he is as a reputation of being tough. and so if that's the way this

came out, that's good news. >> this report was looking into some of the president's most frequent claims. about the fbi. this is him on fox. >> when you look at strzok and page with the insurance policy. the two lovers from the fbi. they say she's going to win. 100 million to nothing. but just in case she loses we have an insurance policy. that means we're going take him down. take down the president. >> that was just this morning. director. he likely knew it wasn't true. this report goes right in the face of all the deep state actors who discredit the trump campaign and the presidency. they claim so much. >> exactly. it's not surprising that the president and probably does know what the report will say, would

seize on the unfortunate series of texts exchange between strzok and page. they were removed early on certainly from the mueller investigation. back in early on. tli three months after it started. mueller took the appropriate action. never the less, the record of the texts there and obviously the president will seize on them whenever he wants to. >> i want you to standby. we're learning that senators received a classified briefing this fall by intelligence officials saying russia engaged in a yearlong campaign to shift the blame away from moscow and put it onto ukraine. matthew, thank you for joining us. walk us through this reporting

tonight. that ukraine conspiracy theory is actually a russian intelligence operation. >> this began soon after the 2016 election. russia was eager to shift the blame. we're not the people interfering. and they picked out there were a few individuals on the ukraine side who did want clinton to win. they ambassador. and leak parts of the manafort ledger. which was real. and the russians pick this up and try to spread that out. they used oligarchs to get this to prominent americans. politicians and journalists. unwitting. and spread this idea that it's really ukrainian interference you should be worried about. and we see how this has taken hold. it's a key talking point for the president and some of his

defenders. it's ukraine interference we should be looking into it. the russian hoax. and what we found is that really is was the goal of the russian intelligence operation. >> this actually came up in hills testimony. let's listen. >> some of you on the committee appear to believe that russia and the security services didn't conduct campaign against our country. and perhaps somehow for some reason ukraine did. this is a fiction narrative. that's being perpetrated by the russian security services themselves. >> this ukraine conspiracy theory is having the effect the russians would like it to. >> it looks that way. we have the president on fox news this morning saying a repeating the theory again. that has grown and added to. you have all the different elements. it's a toxic stew. some of that elements have been added by american domestic

actors. it has become a hodgepodge. when the president speaks about it he's talking about the server and the crowd strike. a confusing mess. at its core this idea it's ukraine interfering not russians. that was the goal of russian intelligence to get into the american bloodstream. they appear to have succeeded. >> what do you think of the reporting? >> it's right on. without having seen or heard the briefing this comports exactly with what the russians would do. right after i think this all started about february of 2017. right after we publish our assessment saying russians meddled. well, what the russians do was try to deflect. put the blame on somebody else.

and from putin's standpoint he's succeeded on two fronts. he helps drive a wedge between ukraine and the united states. which is important to him because he doesn't want a democracy on the edge of russia. and of course it plays to the narrative here and as indicated had success. this amplifies the phrase i have used. truth decay in this country. particularly when our very own president repeats that narrative. >> interesting. the way they spread the conspiracy was different through relationships and high level conversations. you think putin might have fed this story line directly to president trump? >> i wonder about that. just seeing replays of the clip from the helsinki meeting. when putin denied it was russia.

it's hard for me to believe he didn't put the hammer on somebody else. why not ukraine. i bet that putin planted that seed at least as early as helsinki. last june. to get that in the president's mind. >> i spoke with the former vice president biden today. he talked about the relationship that's needed to stand up to russian president vladimir putin. >> i command the world stage. every leader will know who i am. friend will know. i'm with them and not moving. and enemies will know those who i am. vladimir putin knows i know him and he knows me. and the fact is that this is what is needed on day one. we're in trouble. this president is shredding our alliances. yielding to putin in a way that

is just obsequious what he's doing. >> hill cautioned the russians are going to be back in 2020. is trumps refusal to call them out an open invitation to do it again? >> absolutely. the russians will be back. why wouldn't they be. they were successful in 2016 and will be back at it in 2020. just it will be harder for us to detect what they're doing. because they clearly have gone to school on the revelations about what they did in 2016. and by the way great interview with vice president biden. and i'm glad to hear him say i'll stand up to adversaries and extend the olive branch to our allies. traditional allies. and not be deferent shl to putin and dumping on our friends.

>> director clapper, matthew, thank you so much i appreciate it. did a top republican congressman try to dig up dirt on biden? a lawyer says congressman nunes approached the ukraine prosecutor trying to do that. (people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. but he wanted snow for thelace holidays.. so we built a snow globe. i'll get that later. dylan! but the one thing we could both agree on was getting geico to help with homeowners insurance. what? switching and saving was really easy! i love you! what? sweetie! hands off the glass. ugh!! call geico and see how easy saving on homeowners and condo insurance can be.

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(people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. here's what cnn is learning. indicted associate of rudy giuliani is willing to tell congress about meetings devin nunes had last year with an exukrainian official to get dirt on joe biden. according to the attorney representing parness. he was indicted on federal campaign finance charges last month and reportedly discussed ukraine with president trump. at a dinner in 2018. vicky ward is here ask with max boot and john dean. what a tangled web this is.

what is going on. okay, this reporting is really significant. you have learned the attorney this is about nunes. meetings to get dirt on joe biden. go. what did you learn? >> last december, devin nunes made a secret trip to meet with victor shulkin. the former prosecutor general in ukraine who is fired in 2016. because he wasn't doing his job. he was fired under pressure from western leaders including joe biden. who was vice president. he has an accident to grind against biden. nunes was looking for dirt on joe biden and his son. and looking for proof of this theory ukraine somehow meddled in the election. nunes comes back from the trip.

par nas business associate of giuliani doing his own investigation into this. that nunes meeting has taken place and nunes then heats parness and talks to him on the phone and enlists his help in making introductions to ukrainian investigators who might be able to find more dirt on joe biden. and wants the two investigations to merge. it's fascinating we haven't herd heard a word about this from nunes. >> nunes is sitting there during the hearings throwing out conspiracy theories and being referred to as the ranking member. and the gentleman from schiff. who is the chairman. i want to play what we heard from congressman nunes. during the impeachment hearings.

>> no conspiracy theory is too out landish for the democrats. you think they would take interest in bris ma and joe biden. subpoena hunter biden. one of the mothers of conspiracy theories is somehow the president of the united states would want a country he doesn't even like and give foreign aide to to have the ukrainians start an investigation into biden. >> so, according to to your reporting he knew more than he was letting on. what does had say about this. >> he was extremely rude to two of my colleagues who went to physically confront him. exact quote was to be perfectly clear i don't acknowledge any questions from you in this lifetime. or the next. i will say that it's interesting about this reporting, is the timing of nunes trip.

he deliberately timed it. so that it fell after the midterm election and before the democrats took over the house. which meant he didn't have to disclose the details of it. >> okay. standby. i'll bring in max and john now. initial reaction to this news. >> it's not terribly surprising. frankly. because for a long time i think we have known that nunes and some of the other republicans and in the house like jordan and meadows are not just defenders of trump they are accomplices and do the same things as trump in propagating conspiracy theories and smearing the democrats. with nunes history back to 2017. i was famous ride to the white house and claiming to uncover evidence of the obama administration was behind a

political wiretapping of trump and all the other crazy conspiracies. which we know is not true. so it's hardly surprising to me to find out he might be up to the same thing now. clearly if he is, he need to disclose it. it's shocking he is accusing schiff and the democrats of all these contacts with the whistleblower. as far as we know is not true. if he's engaging in machinations that is shocking and hypocritical. given the committee lack of moral fiber displayed by nunes hardly surprising. >> to be clear i don't acknowledge questions from you in this lifetime or the next. that's not a denial. how does this complicate impeachment. for the first time the efforts to dig up dirt on the bidens involves a member of the congress. blasting witnesses and public

hearings. >> i don't doubt the what nunes would or wouldn't do. and he would do something like this. i would give a caveat in the circumstances that it's arriving in. he's got a very able defense lawyer. and this looks to me like a bid for immunity. where they're trying to get the intelligence committee to grant what's called that makes it impossible for somebody prosecuted after that immunity. the southern district would not be happy with that. congress has been good at cooperating with prosecutors. i think he's going to have to deliver more than a nunes misconduct. to get that immunity. and get that testimony before the committee. the house judiciary committee as well. >> all right.

thank you. we appreciate your very interesting reporting. max and john will be with us. we'll be right back. the magic moment. congress really democratized wall street... i wanted to have a firm that wanted to get everybody in. because people couldn't access wall street. we wanted to be agents of change. for the better. ♪

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john bolton is back in the spotlight with an interesting claim ability the white house and twitter account. back with me max boot and john dean. so, here we go. this john bolton is saying he's claiming lt white house froze him out of his twitter account. reporters caught up with him. >> they attached software to it.

and twitter unattached the software. >> are you concerned they are trying to stop you from testifies? >> ask the white house. i can say we have regained control of the twitter account. twitter detached the white house software. >> so i guess we can call it twitter gate. bolton was told by twitter that some sort of software had been installed on his account. the function is not clear. so give me your reaction to because president trump earlier today denied the white house had frozen his account. what do you think? >> i don't know. this is so minor and i think there's an issue with one officials leave the white house that their twitter account is public property and create a new one. frankly this is not a huge issue to me the larger issue is bolton going to testify. >> the twitter account is not stopping him from testifying.

>> nothing the fact he is dodging his civic responsibility to tell congress what he knows about the shady dealings with ukraine. the so called drug deal. with had sondland and hill and other witnesses testifying that bolton knew all about it. and he's writing a book for $2 million. he needs to go to congress and raising his right hand and telling the american people what he knows especially because the defense from the white house is it's all hearsay. that the people who were in the room aren't talking. they need to start talking and bolton was in the room. >> and mick mulvaney. >> do you think he'll do it? should he be testifying? >> he absolutely should be. my first reaction to the twitter issue was they consider those a reclaiming they were presidential records. and they have to go to the national archives. which is legit claim. i'm surprised he didn't set up

his own account immediately after wards. max, i retweeted an article max did today. on 64 excuses for not having impeachment that will make you cry and laugh. they're all fact based. so i hope -- i'm one who does hope bolton will appear. more from my interview with former vice president joe biden. is he the fighter democrats are looking for in 2020? what he says about that next. art vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. most people think of verizon as a reliable phone company. (woman) but to businesses, we're a reliable partner. we keep companies ready for what's next. (man) we weave security into their business. virtualize their operations. (woman) and build ai customer experiences.

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joe biden wearing his heart on his sleeve, talking movingly about suffering personal loss and empathy for others going through the same thing. he tells me he thinks the president is incapable of empathy. >> one area that you have no issue and that's grief and empathy. and the current president doesn't have that. why do you think that is in why do you have it and why doesn't he? >> look, i don't think he's capable of it. i don't. i haven't seen a single thing that indicates he has understanding of what other people are going through. and in a sense i wish i didn't have so much empathy.

>> you faced a lot of loss. >> a lot of people have. people faced more than i have. and they get up every day without the kind of help i have with my family and get up and put one foot in front. real heros. they go every day and do it. and so, that's what america is made of. that's the soul. and i think that most of the people who come up to me on rope lines and they even the press now is getting it straight. why are these people hugging biden. because they are grabbing me and saying am i going to be all right i just lost my son or daughter. or a little boy will stand there and say i stutter. and there's a whole group of kids that i keep in contact with. more than a dozen that have because i let them know it shouldn't let them define them. it's not who they are.

so there's just a whole lot of out there that i have learned a lot. from loss. i've learned a lot about the abuse of power and bullies. >> you have said we need to build, meaning this country. build on obamacare. is that enough? especially with what people are facing now when it comes to debilitating disease. cancer and so on. >> it's more than enough. when i talk about and president obama talks about it initially. we want to move on beyond obamacare. it changed the lives of millions of people. covering over 100 million people with preexisting conditions and children. what i propose is to take all the cuts that have been made to obamacare and take them back from this guy. the president. present president. provide greater subsidies for people to buy into a goal plan in the obamacare.

that will become biden care. and add a public option. a medicare option. here's the issue, it's not -- i understand my medicare for all friends saying that that's a good thing to do. guess what? you have to be honest. it's about 34 to $35 trillion over ten years. >> we can't afford it. >> 3.5 trillion a year is more than the entire federal budget. eliminate everything we do from the military to housing. everything. and you can't do it. lastly, here's the big thing. it should be medicare for those who want it. that's my plan. if you want to be in medicare, you can choose my option. these guys are saying no, my way or the highway. we eliminate the 160 million people with insurance they work out with employers and they like it. if they don't like it get in the medicare plan i'm proposing and

get covered and afford it. if they do like it, they can stay where they are. under the other plan we know best. everybody is out. >> democrats want to fight want a fighter. >> i'm a fighter. >> they haven't seen that fighting spirit. >> that's not what the democrats in the polling say. some say that because maybe i have been polite in the debates. for example -- >> is that changing? >> well, i'm looking forward to a real debate. to getting a stage and debating. what we now have is one minute assertions. >> a real debate? >> two or three people. and go into it. more than 30 seconds to answer an attack. and it's what amazes me now is if you look at the 99th debate or whatever we have. is you notice that the democrats all of a sudden most of them don't think president obama did

such a good job. i think he was a great president. i really do. and what i plan on doing is go back in a heartbeat to obama to begin to build on what we did. what he did. and but now it's like you had one candidate who is running that our second term said he should be primaried. you have people saying hundred years of -- this is obama did a great job. >> do you think you and the former president get enough credit for the economy? that was built that you built. >> no. but it's understandable. because look, here's what happened. everybody forgets everything landed on the president's desk but locusts. everything. think about it. it was the greatest recession short of depression in american history. this man pulled us out of crisis. with help from me got the car out of the ditch on the road and

get it moving. we had successive growth. successive progress. all the way through just to the place where we were going to tune that engine to go back. the middle class. the middle class was finally starting to have daylight. and look what happened. i'm going back and build on what we did. move because it's a totally different problem we face now. and anyway. i was proud to serve with him. >> thank you. appreciate it. good luck to you. a lot to break down from the interview. he is ready to fight. we'll discuss. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis,

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an average of 67 cents stays in the community. join me and american express on small business saturday, november 30th, and see how shopping small adds up. joe biden talking about the family tragedy that shaped his empathy and the belief that president trump is incapable of it. let's discuss now. good evening to you. thank you so much. he suffered enormous personal loss and most recently his son. it's remarkable how well he's able to communicate that. and people really pick up on that i notice bh i was out with him today.

in stark contrast to what we have in office now. could that help him in the end? >> i find that like a lot of politics is the backdrop. compared to the democratic field, biden sometimes seems short on fluency. compared to trump he would seem long on decency and empathy. matching him up against trump is a very different look than warren or buttigieg. who can just kind of march through policy and every sub clause -- the way that he relates to ordinary people i think would be a significant asset for him against trump who is good at expressing resentment. less strong as connecting with human emotion. >> he says -- democrats tell me where's that fighting spirit? they ask me. we used to see it with joe biden. democrats say they're looking for a fighter. progressives aren't so sure. can he turn that around especially when he's critical of policies like medicare for all.

that the base maybe excited about. because you heard his former boss president obama saying nobody wants to tear down the system. people want to improve it. you know who he's speaking to. >> yeah, two questions there. one is the fighter part. and the base. i think in terms of him being a fighter first of all, he has a history of being a fighter. there's a comment he said the bfd word after the but, you know, he fought for that. he fought for issues in the '90s. so he has that history. but when it comes to where we are in 2016, the base of the democratic party has changed dramatically. >> 2019. >> sorry. in 2019, the base of the democratic party has changed dramatically. so late at night. i keep saying 2016. it feels like it's been three years. >> has it really changed? >> no.

that's the thing. his constituency is not the changed part of the party. 60% of the voters in 2016 were older than 45. now it will probably -- it will be around that. it's true for every community, african-american, college whites, non-college whites. his audience are middle of the road, middle of the cub, middle aged white democrats and then african-american democrats, especially those over 35. >> i asked him, i said has the party moved too far to the left? he said, no, i think some of the candidates have moved too far to the left, but i think the party is a centrist party. >> i don't know if i agree with that statement. i understand where he's coming from with that, but i think the younger voters are more farther to the left. i feel like i'm very, very progressive. i teach a class at columbia university. my students are far more progressive than i am. they're talking about ithings i wasn't even thinking about, especially as a college student. that's whethe future of where t democratic is going to be heading. the question is who's going to

be able to tap into those ideas and excite those voters. who's going to motivate the base of the party and joe biden hasn't been the person to do that. >> you look at some of the polling, him with young people. it is a little ominous for democrats how little enthusiasm he has in the democratic base among younger democrats. but the millennials and post-millennials in the party isn't the only thing that's chaiting in the democratic party. they're coming towards the democrats because they can't abide donald trump and there's an issue as well as to who is going to be able to hold them. >> don't you think voters are moved by getting rid of donald trump? >> they are. but in the primary, you know, they have a choice, right? and that's not going to be his constituency. he has a pretty good idea who his constituency is, you know. it's centered among african-american voters, but it also includes some of these moderate and middle aged whites. >> he pushed back on not being able to go the distance from

bloomberg and deval patrick, and he also pushed back on lindsey graham. what do you want to talk about? >> the lindsey thing. i mean go ahead. >> lindsey graham, okay. well, the lindsey graham thing really disturbed me. i saw your comments earlier about this, your conversation with joe lockhart. i look back at some of the things that lindsey graham himself has said about donald trump and some of the things he's said about joe biden. and it's almost like it's a different person. lindsey graham was calling donald trump a kook and unfit for office just a few years ago and praising joe biden as being a great human being. now it's exactly the opposite. he's investigating joe biden and exonerating donald trump. what happened to this guy? >> on patrick and bloomberg, they're operating on the same theory, that biden cannot go the distance. we'll know in south carolina. >> i got to run. thank you both. happy thanksgiving to you. >> thank you. >> happy thanksgiving to you as well. oh, we'll be right back.

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(senior) thank you. (make-a-wish child) thank you. geico would like to take a moment to say thank you to our military service members at home and abroad for all their hard work and sacrifice. we all sleep easier knowing you're out there keeping us safe. and on a personal note... sfx: jet engines ... i just needed to get that off my chest. thank you. geico: proudly supporting the military for over 75 years. detroit's economic struggles

are well known, and it remains the poorest big city in america. the u.s. census bureau says more than one-third of detroit's residents and nearly half of the city's children live in poverty. well, one of this year's top ten cnn heroes is working to change that. she's a nurse who found her mission while making a house call more than 20 years ago. meet nuja bazi. >> working as a nurse, i went to visit this iraqi refugee family and an infant that was dying. and there at the house, they absolutely had nothing. there was no refrigerator. there was no stove. there was no crib. the baby was in a laundry basket. i decided that this wasn't going to happen on my watch. how is your apprenticeship going? >> pretty good. >> nurses are supposed to fix things. we are healers, and this is just a place that heals the world. >> nuja has helped more than 250,000 women and their children

in need in detroit. go to cnnheroes.com to vote for her for cnn hero of the year or any of your favorite top ten heroes. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. . the president's own justice department on the president's own orders investigating the president's own conspiracy theories about the 2016 russia probe and largely debunks them. john berman here in for anderson. it is breaking news, and it is big. the justice department inspector general's report on the fbi's crossfire hurricane investigation is done. cnn was first to learn that a former fbi lawyer is under criminal investigation for allegedly altering a document related to the 2016 surveillance of trump campaign adviser carter page. tonight, there's more, much more. in "the new york times," this is the lead, a highly anticipated report by the justice department's inspector general is expected to sharply criticize lower-level fbi officials as