tv New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman CNN December 24, 2019 4:00am-5:00am PST
two deadly crashes. >> the company suffered a series of very public missteps after the 737 was grounded for saying the problem boils down to a welcome of confidence in muilenburg's leadership. >> this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. this is "new day." john berman is off. john avlon is with me. merry christmas eve. >> merry christmas eve. >> jinx. >> okay. so santa is on the eve, john, as you can see in this very technical norad video. >> this is an official government projection from no d norad. >> his magical journey around the world has begun. you can't see this, but i know that he's over new zealand right now s now. >> that's the word you're hearing in your word. >> it would help if i saw some coordinates or a land mass under him, but i guess we don't get that. >> tough one. santa cam this season. >> we will track his progress throughout the morning.
but the holiday spirit is not ending the stalemate in washington over impeachment. senate minority leader chuck schumer is demanding documents and witnesses that he says are necessary to carry out a fair trial, while majority leader mitch mcconnell says they're at an impasse until nancy pelosi sends impeachment articles to the senate. meanwhile, the top lawyer in the house is raising the prospect of impeaching president trump again if new evidence emerges. >> then there are the ramblings of mr. trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani, unloeldiading in new interview after his recent trip to ukraine. giuliani claims without any proof, former ambassador of ukraine was controlled by george soros. giuliani says he's more of a jew than soros who is a holocaust survivor. lets discuss now with cnn political commentator joe lockhart, cnn senior global
affairs analyst, bianna gold riga, and dana bash, a wealth of wisdom on this christmas eve morning. joe, i've got to start with you. you're uniquely positioned to illuminate one of the things we heard mitch mcconnell say yesterday. it's about using the clinton standard going forward. let's take a listen to what he said yesterday and how he sounded 20 years ago. >> we haven't ruled out witnesses. we've said let's handle this case just like we did with president clinton. fair is fair. >> every other impeachment has had witnesses. it's not unusual to have witnesses in a trial. >> just like we did under president clinton, what does that mean? >> first off, mitch mcconnell talking about fairness is like merrick garland talking about being a supreme court justice, you know, it's ridiculous. let's get to the question you asked me. he's wrong on two fronts. one is these are completely different cases.
in 1998 and 1999 everyone who needed to testify had testified under oath. all of the live witnesses, all of the people with firsthand information in the starr grand jury. there were 2,600 pages of what they said. in this case we haven't heard from any of the people who are very close to the president, so there's a need for witnesses. the second thing, he keeps talking about how they decide, you know, we'll decide somewhere in the middle whether we're going to have witnesses. the agreement in 1999 was they would do it in two phases. first they'd let the lawyers speak, and then they would decide not whether they'd have witnesses but what witnesses. there was an agreement from the outside that there would be witnesses, and they decided on three. monica lewinsky, vernon jordan and sydney blumenthal. he's playing games with all of this, and it's clear that his position is there's going to be no witnesses. >> meanwhile, bianna, new information, new evidence comes
out it seems every week. >> yeah. >> this week we got this -- these new batch of e-mails thanks to a foya request. and so of course legally it makes sense if new information comes out the house lawyer is saying we may need to impeach the president again if we find new information. politically that would be a bitter pill for even democrats, i think, to swallow. it's like when will we be done with this i think the people feel, but how can you be done when they don't know -- haven't heard from direct witnesses and new evidence keeps coming up. >> and it sort of justifies at least in the short-term nancy pelosi's call for withholding these articles right now and not transmitting them to the senate. that being said, it is not politically advantageous for a lot of her caucus to continue moving forward with impeachment, right? they kept saying we were reluctant to impeach the president over russia and the mueller investigation. there are many moderate democrats who she's protecting as well who finally said they
did not want to deal with impeachment, but given what happened with ukraine, they agreed to. having this hang over them going forward up in the election is something that could hurt them as much as obviously it would hurt the president to have this hanging over them too. >> totally agree. >> dana it's unclear what leverage speaker pelosi has, but what is clear chuck schumer needs four republican votes if he's got a prayer of witnesses and new evidence. who are the four votes that democrats think they can peel off? >> well, look, there are, what, half a dozen, maybe a handful of republicans so more than four who are up for re-election in 2020, the very same year that this trial, if it happens, it will happen, you know, goes forward, and so those -- when i say up for re-election, up for re-election in purple states or in difficult campaigns, and you know, it's hard if not
impossible to believe that most, if not any of them will vote yes on convicting the president and throwing him out of office. what is a lot more reasonable politically and in terms of fairness for them is to vote yes on you know, hearing witnesses. yes, i want to know everything i can before i take this vote. it is my constitutional duty, and the pressure that chuck schumer is putting on these republicans already and other democrats are as well. i will tell you what i heard that was different yet from chuck schumer was maybe turn out to be really key, was at the very minimum he said we will have votes on witnesses. he was opening the door there for witnesses to be dealt with in some way after they start the trial, and that way according to the rules of the senate is to hold votes that only need a 51 -- 51 vote majority.
so that very well could be, you know, kind of the kicker for a lot of these witnesses, whether or not that even that would do the trick to compel a john bolton to come forward, you know, tbd, but that could be kind of the drama in the senate trial. >> but yet, remember, and i agree with dana, there is pressure when it comes to fairness and for the american public to say, you know what, there should be witnesses. we haven't heard from these witnesses, especially if they are fact witnesses. there's more pressure on republicans to say you're right, and maybe we do have to vote on that. the flip side of that is the pressure that you'd see on democrats because republicans would then say we want to hear from hunter biden. we want to hear from joe biden, and how many democrats would actually vote for that knowing that that wouldn't benefit their party or joe biden or his son. >> that's a good point. let's move on to rudy giuliani because he has given an eyebrow raising --
>> raising my ewe brows when you say that. >> an interview with new york magazine with olivia nuzzi. she had just returned from ukraine, and he says a lot of stuff. some of it is sort of stream of consciousness. here's something that's getting a lot of attention. this is what he says about george soros as well as the former ambassador marie yovanovitch. i'll read it to you. he said former ambassador yovanovitch, whom he calls santa maria yovanovitch is controlled by george soros. quote, he put all four ambassadors there, and he's employing the fbi agents end quote. i told him he sounded crazy and he insisted he wasn't. don't tell me i'm anti-semitic if i oppose him. he said soros is hardly a jew. i'm more of a jew than soros is. i probably know more about -- he doesn't go to church. he doesn't go to religion synagog synagogue. he doesn't belong to a synagogue. he doesn't support israel, he's an enemy of israel.
dana, just because you interact with rudy, i'll start with you. what did you think of this interview? >> well, on the yovanovitch stuff on, you know, the accusations that she is the corrupt one, that that's what he was trying to get in this particular last trip to ukraine, yes, he has said that. he has said that to me. he's said that to many people. he did make the soros connection as well. what was new here is him defending himself on going after george soros, and the way i read it, and i'm curious about john, what you think, is that there is widespread concern among, you know, many the adl and just, you know, humans about the george soros attacks being anti-semitic and based on a, you know, millennial old trope about jews running the worlds and runnings
the banks and so forth. so by saying he's not even a jew he's trying to say my attacks on george soros has nothing to do with him being jewish. it didn't come across that way, but my sense is that's what he was trying to do to separate his attacks on george soros politically from the knows he's antism anti-semit anti-semitic. if you look at right wing media and how george soros has been portrayed, that is exactly what it is. >> yeah, and i mean, this is a anti-semitic trope that has been pushed by trolls for years, rooted in millennia of libellous slander against the jewish people, and it i don't think reflects who rudy is in my experience with him, but it reflects talking points -- >> or he was. >> that's the question. >> how do you explain -- based on the rudy you worked with. >> i think folks know i worked with rudy for many years when he was mayor of new york. this is inconsistent.
what we have seen is an erosion of the judgment of the person i knew, the judgment that characterized him as mayor of new york is not present in this interv interview. they percolate among right wing trolls on social media about george soros, and that's the root of it. that's what we're talking about here. i want to move on, though, because this all begins on the rudy side with a company classically known as fraud guarantee. that is the name of the company, bianna, and rudy talks about his one-time associates lev and igor, and here's what he says. they look like miami people. i knew a lot of miami people that look like that that are perfectly legitimate and act like them. none of them have ever been convicted of a crime, that's my cutoff point. if you do it based on allegations and claims you're not going to work with anybody, particularly in business. >> they have been charged with crimes. not convicted. >> they're going through the court system. >> i'm not sure that's the bar.
you've covered business extensively in your career. >> i haven't covered lev and igor extensively. >> that seems like probably the wrong standard to use for business. >> it also seems to me at least that rowdy udy is trying to def them. we know that lev ask his attorney have dangled they have a lot of information they would like to share, and what's interesting about this relationship is it doesn't go back many years. you know rudy giuliani. he stays loyal to friends and business associates who he's known for decades. he's only met these men a couple of years ago, and yet they continue to remain very close. they spent much time together in ukraine. he in past interviews has sort of lamented about how difficult it was to go back to ukraine without them. he had to reply on google translate as opposed to having lev or igor there. he even showed olivia how google translate works.
he's the white house czar on all things cyber security. to me this read as rudy giuliani's attempt to once again defend, protect these two men in hopes that they would do the reciprocal in terms of him and potentially any damaging information that they could reveal. >> this is the cyber czar who according to olivia left an unlocked phone in the backseat of the car with her. >> she found. >> that she found and had to return. >> you're saying that's not a best practice? >> can i go back to make one other point that dana was making on what the democratic house lawyer is trying to do. democrats aren't going to impeach the president again. this is a legal argument and they want don mcgahn because they think they get don mcgahn th they then get john bolton and mick mulvaney. first the white house said you can't have witnesses because it isn't serious. then the white house said you can't have witnesses because you
are impeaching. what the democratic lawyers had to come back and say we may impeach again. this is like a schoolyard 5-year-old fight between lawyers. >> shouldn't they subpoena john bolton if they want john bolton. >> they don't need to. they see the mcgahn case as a stalking horse. they win there and then they think they can -- >> which is why the justice department is intervening now and saying stay out of this. >> i didn't mean to take attention away from the bloody mary's, but i'm sorry. >> a comparison between a constitutional crisis involving the department of justice with a 5-year-old sand lot fight, that does just enough. >> thank you, all. >> great to talk to you. joe bidenen and pete buttigieg both making a play for the moderate vote. the battle to win over iowa's democratic voters. that's next. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose.
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>> reporter: when pete buttigieg came to town, sherry was sitting right there in the front row listening intently and capturing the moment. as he left, she gave him a high five. >> i want to high five you again. thank you, pete. >> and smiled with satisfaction. >> so did you walk away from here committed or do you want to go see some of the others first? >> well, joe biden is also in town tonight, and i'm going to go see what he has to say. >> two hours later she and her sister nancy were there for an up close look at joe biden. she admires and values biden's experience. >> he's been there so i feel good about that. i'm really happy about that. i liked him. >> reporter: but you loved mayor pete. >> i love mayor pete. what does a guy do? i don't know. i'm really kind of torn a little bit. i got to think about it and sleeping on it. i don't know yet. >> reporter: just before christmas, democrats are still
shopping for presidential hopefuls in iowa. biden and buttigieg are going after the same voters literally, which brought both of them sunday to the town of perry, about 45 minutes outside des moines. for democrats searching for a more moderate candidate the choice is stark, a 37-year-old mayor of south bend, indiana, delivering an optimistic message. >> even in this dark and strange time, i have never been more filled with hope. >> reporter: or a former vice president twice his age who offers a dark warning about the consequences of president trump winning a second term. >> if we give him another four years, i believe he will permanently alter the character of the country at least for several generations. >> reporter: pat macpherson is torn, applauding buttigieg's intellect. >> i think he might be the one. >> reporter: but later impressed by biden's grasp on the world. >> a couple of hours you told me you were going to sign on the dotted line for buttigieg. >> i'm probably going to go with mayor pete, but there's just so
much to be said for being able to hit the ground running on day one, and it's going to be a huge task. >> reporter: while he's trailing buttigieg in recent polls, biden is showing that skills from a lifetime in politics also come in handy to people of all ages. >> got it. okay. that may be the most intelligent thing you hear all night. >> reporter: pat liked the charisma of buttigieg and worried that biden may be too old. after seeing him up close in this moment she said she changed her mind. >> and i made that comment he might be a little old before, but i'm a little old too, and i'm in pretty good shape, and he looks like he's in dynamic shape. >> you have quite a decision facing you now. >> i have a terrific decision facing me, and it won't be made lightly. >> for many voters looking for a moderate candidate, they're legitimately torn between buttigieg's excitement and biden's experience. the central question, electability. they have six weeks to weigh
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are iowa voters looking for a moderate? if so who best fits that bill for them? joe biden, pete buttigieg, how about amy klobuchar? joining us now with what iowa voters b want or what we think they want, we have cnn commentator hillary rosen, and bakari sellers, he endorsed kamala harris before she dropped out of the race. great to see both of you this morning. okay. so do iowans want a moderate? and the reason i ask is because donald trump -- it's often seen as a purple state, but donald trump won by ten points, so what does that tell you about what they're looking for this time
around? >> iowa's unique in so many ways. every single democrat in the country should move to iowa at some point in their life to experience the presidential campaign in iowa. as we just saw from jeff's piece, it is so personal, these, you know, citizens get to spend more time with these candidates than in virtually any other state in the country, but i think right now this race is sort of broken down, you kind of have the top four where, you know, it's sanders and warren and buttigieg and biden and any one of them really could -- is positioned to potentially win this thing. pete buttigieg is spending the most money of all of the candidates in iowa. he has the largest staff. he is spending the most on advertising, but it's also important to remember the quirkiness of the iowa voting system, which is that on caucus day any candidate that doesn't get 15% of the vote, you know, those -- their supporters can
then revote a second time and go to their next best choice, and so there's a lot of shifting of the ground, which is why it's very common that people in the lead in the polls in iowa end up not actually winning on caucus day. >> really interesting, and that's all good context for us. so bakari, help us understand, are they going to go in the warren/sanders direction or the bide biden/buttigieg, klobuchar direction? >> if anybody wants to sit here today and tell you they know what's going to happen on iowa caucus night, they're probably lying. i want to remind voters and watchers, even biden and pete buttigieg are more progressive and further to the left than even barack obama was in 2007 and 2008. 16 years ago in 2003 on christmas eve, john kerry was running behind howard dean and dick gep heart. he went and took a $6 million
loan out and came back to win that race. anything is possible right here, but i do believe that any of the top four candidates have an awesome opportunity to win this race, and if you're looking for -- i think it's going to break down if you're looking for a moderate, you're looking for a moderate who can win the primary, and i think that people are going to look for voters or candidates who can build a coalition. iowa voters are very smart. they want their vote to count. they're going to elect someone they believe can actually go out and build the coalition necessary to win. at the end of the day, i think they're going to kick the tires on almost all of them, but right now it appears that joe biden is probably in the best position to build that coalition, but as i said earlier, i mean, you know, john kerry came back. there are a lot of things that are possible. that's why you see people like cor cory booker still in the race, still working hard in iowa, building up those endorsements and you see people still believe even though they're not in the top four they have a chance to win this primary. >> do you agree that cory booker
does have a chance to win in iowa? >> i think everybody has a chance to win in iowa. it's going to be very difficult. i think this race as hillary said, i don't think it's four people. i think it's two people. i think it's a bernie sanders joe biden race. however, i think because the iowa caucus is so, so particular and peculiar and because there still is a lot of time left, the iowa caucus is a little bit later this year than it normally is. it's not in january, it's february 3rd. there still is a lot of time left, and i wouldn't be surprise first-degree y ed if you saw someone from the middle of the pack come back, could that be amy klobuchar, could that be cory booker, there are a couple of people who could probably catch fire. >> i think bakari's right in that you have bernie sanders and joe biden both as what we'll call the establishment candidates in that voters know them, know who they are, and have formed opinions about them. so really the issue is whether iowa breaks out somebody new,
whether they break out pete buttigieg, whether they break out amy klobuchar or elizabeth warren, and that platform of iowa is very significant going into new hampshire, south carolina, nevada, because as we know joe biden has a stronghold in south carolina and in nevada. bernie sanders is strong in new hampshire. so you know, it really requires victory in iowa for one of these other candidates to be successful going forward in the next few states. >> but you're saying if biden doesn't win iowa he can still recover? >> no question. but i think that's less the case for pete buttigieg and amy and for warren. >> the polls are no help because when you look at the most recent polls in iowa, and grant it these are from a month ago. let's start with the cnn one. in this cnn one from november
8th through 13th butte judge ig pretty far out then warren at 16, then biden at 15, then sanders at 15, a three-way tie for second. klobuchar is half of that at 6. then a poll done at virtually the same time, this cbs poll had different results. i'll try to pull those up for you any second. that's where sanders is -- well, basically it's a two-way tie between sanders and biden. quite different than the cnn poll, then buttigieg, which is basically tied as well, then warren, then klobuchar. it's just -- well, it's just impossible to tell what's going to happen. as we heard from that piece that preceded you guys, even iowans are still deciding. obviously they don't know what they're going to do. >> yeah, i mean, my political analysis this morning is like i don't know what's going to happen. we shall see. i remind people often, though, i mean, our colleague rick s santorum won the iowa caucus.
it was a storm in the 2016 that night, and everyone was leaving and flew and a lot of us thought that hillary clinton was running away with iowa only to find out when we landed in new hampshire she won by half a point, and if you watch the republican caucus that night, you would have thought marco rubio won. there are a lot of things that can happen. to hilary's point, the number one thing you have to realize about iowa is there aren't as many tickets out of iowa as people first thought they would be. if pete buttigieg, elizabeth warren, amy klobuchar do not win iowa, it's going to be very tough for them to continue because of course you have new hampshire. when you get to nevada, then south carolina, and then super tuesday, you know, joe biden is going to be very formidable, and so is bernie sanders, and without having that spark from iowa, without trying to catch that obama momentum, which i hate using because no one's
running against barack obama, that spring board, it's going to be difficult for them to continue. it pete buttigieg wins iowa he's in for the long haul and he's going to be a formidable candidate, and you never know what will happen. >> bakari sellers, hillary rosen, we'll talk to you very soon. the ceo of boeing fired in the fallout of the 737 max. so what is the future of the company, and will that plane ever fly again? we've got that and more next. hi, i'm dave. i supply 100% farm-fresh milk for lactaid. it's real milk, just without the lactose, so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then,
authorities in michigan have found the body of a mother missing since october. adrian quintal vanished after calling a friend to say she was involved in a shootout with two men. cnn's alexandra field joins us now with more. do we know what happened? >> it's really been an agonizing few months with this family
trying to figure out what happened. in the end it was her family and friends who did find her body, and now that she's been discovered, investigators are saying they don't suspect foul play. that despite the fact that her body was found in a flooded area near a river not far from the cabin where she made a chilling phone call back in october. it was the last time she was heard from. she called a friend in the middle of the night, said she had just shot a man in the face and that she was being shot at by another man. by the time police arrived they found bullet holes in the windows. they also found spent shell casings on the cabin floor leading them to believe that shots had been fired inside, but quintal herself was gone. the family says that finding her is bringing them some peace, if not all the answers. >> we can rest a little easier knowing that the journey so far has come to an end. it's been hard searching for her and even though we're glad to have some closure, it has been
heart wrenching. >> nice to hear that family say that they are getting some measure of closure. the autopsy has been conducted but the medical examiner says that he will hold off on finally determining an official cause of death until he gets the toxicology reports back that may give us and the family, of course, more answers about the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death. meanwhile, boeing's ceo dennis muilenburg has been fired. the company announced yesterday. the board of directors decided that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company moving forward as it works to repair relationships with regulators, customers, and all other stakeholders. as the "new york times" puts it, muilenburg was unable to stabilize boeing after two crashes killed 346 people. the worst crisis in the manufacturing giant's 103-year history. joining me to talk about it is
cnn's business editor at large and host of cnn's quest means business richard quest who covers aviation for us. great to have you both with us. richard, let me start with you. there's a semantics to exit packages and there's been a bit of a debate between the company's official line that the ceo resigned and what seems to be the case that he was fired. at stake could be as much as $75 million in compensation for the former ceo. so what's the truth, and if the payout's there, how could shareholders stand for it? >> well, it will be structured. it's not the first time that a ceo has left a top job under a cloud and walked off with a large payoff. to actually fire him for cause so he wouldn't get any of his contractual benefits, that's not the case. he hasn't really done anything wrong. my guess is they're very deep into his contract. there is a term that says if he resigns and the board asks him
to in these circumstances he gets the lot, which would be deferred compensation, pension, you name it. it probably all comes. whether or not he's entitled to it morally, that's a different question, but shareholders might arguably say yes, until 2019 we've made a very good return on boeing. a lot of money, and even this year pretty much so far it's just about back to where it started the year. >> we've got a shot that shows the stock market price. it had done very well until this year, and then you see the steep dropoff, 21% after the crash of the first max airliner. so to you, natalie, my question is this, on the issue of judgment and culpability, and you wrote the report, why wasn't the max grounded after the first crash? >> well, after the first crash the company was, you know, working towards a fix, but it wasn't clear exactly what had happened, and there was a sense inside that this could have been
an anomaly, and that's what the new incoming ceo david calhoun said to us in an interview early this year. there was the sense that this might have been a one-off. now, you know, assumptions and other problems came to light before the ethiopian crash, but the decision was made to work on a fix and to struinstruct pilotw to use an emergency procedure to recover the plane. >> richard, could there be criminal liability at the end of all this? >> highly unlikely. the bar would need to be set so high and the actions taken by officers of the company so grave that it's not a runner. it would be most unusual. corporate criminal liability, that's another one that often is looked at. again, the bar is set so high, you have to prove so many different things that it's not going to be a runner. civil litigation, of course, left, right, and center, huge number of claims all over the place against boeing, even
though they've put aside billions of dollars already, that won't be enough. more will have to be paid. i don't see any form of criminal prosecution getting off the ground. >> natalie, you mentioned david calhoun, the incoming new ceo, former chairman of the board for years. is that dwirgiven the fact he h been overseeing the company at the board level for this entire period rkis that the turn of th page leadership and some shareholders are looking for, or is there a degree of culpability because he was chairman of the board during the time this all unfolded? >> the company wanted to be able to put someone in the role who's a proven ceo, someone who has familiarity with this crisis, with the ins and outs of what's going on. david calhoun has been on the board since the max was launched. he has been deeply immeshed in the decisions that got us here to where we are today, which is really the worst-case scenario
for the company, and lawmakers have said that they aren't satisfied. richard blumenthal, the senator from connecticut has said that he wants mr. calhoun to testify, so the pressure is still very much on for boeing. >> richard, you know, when i was in business school, boeing was lauded. they won the beverage award for quality multiple times, and so this is sort of striking to see this fall from grace for this storied american company. one of the big debates we're having now, the business round table saying ceos should value long-term value creation over short-term shareholder value. is this part of a process perhaps that boeing let some quality standards fall due to an emphasis on share price by the ceo? >> not due to share price. i wouldn't say, the share price has been very good over the last few years, so it wasn't share price. it was market share that they were going for. had introduced the a 320, it was
selling very well, very well, and boeing didn't really have a competitor for this, so they rushed through the max, and there the problems began and multiplied. it was boeing's wish to get the max into production and flying as soon as possible to beat the neo and claim market share. ultimately, of course, what they've done is managed to do exactly the opposite because now airlines are canceling in some cases or they're simply just going straight for the 320 family of planes from airbus. >> final question for you both, show of hands, will the 737 max fly again? >> that's what industry observers are saying, and i mean, regulators are indicating that it will fly again. the question is when and how. what is the pilot training going to be for this plane. that's what we're all watching. >> quite the pribs. >> prediction. >> there's no doubt it will fly
again. there's way too much invested. i promise you this, within a year everybody will be flying it without any problems, forgetting about what might have happened in that case. >> bold predictions from richard and natalie, thank you for joining us on "new day." all right, john, five people sentenced to death for the murder of "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi. those closest to the saudi crown prince were spared. we'll speak with one of khashoggi's former colleagues who says this sentence was a whitewa whitewash. going back to the doctor just for a shot. with neulasta onpro... ...patients get their day back... ...to be with... ... family... ...or just to sleep in. strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. in a key study...
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saudi arabia sentenced five people to death for the murder of "washington post" journalist ka maul khashoggi. but the kingdom's top prosecutor cleared members of the crown prince's inner circle despite the conclusion from the cia that muhammad bin salman personally ordered the killing. an opinion writer from "the washington post" joins us who worked with khashoggi. five people sentenced to death. is that justice for jamal khashoggi? >> doesn't look like justice to me. we don't know anything about what went on inside that trial. it was held behind closed doors. and the people who our own tjs assessments say are responsible for the murder of jamal khashoggi have walked free. so i don't think we should have anticipated any sort of justice
in this case and, clearly, it doesn't look like justice has been served. >> here is what salah khashoggi, one of jamal's sons said in a statement put out yesterday. a fair judiciary is based on two principles -- justice and quick proceedings. today's judiciary was fair to us. the sons of jamal khashoggi. we affirm our confidence in saudi judiciary on all its levels as it ruled in our favor and achieved justice. do you know if that's how the whole family feels? >> i can't say definitively and the last thing i want to do is criticize the grieving children of my colleague. ultimately, though, we know that saudi arabia is a country where free expression does not exist, where does dissent is stamped out. any sort of backlash or speaking back against the royal family is unacceptable. so i would not have expected anything different, and
unfortunately, it's going to be hard to know what the family really thinks because they are stuck inside that country. >> that's a very important context for us to know. and so the -- but the fact, from what you're saying, the fact that five people were sentenced to death, should that be seen as some sort of victory given the fact that saudi arabia doesn't often do things like this? >> again, i don't want to judge victo victory. ultimately, the main fact here is that a journalist for "the washington post," a man who was promoting the ideas of free expression and trying to give voice to the voiceless in the country where he came from was murdered in the most outrageous and heinous way imaginable. so there can't be a victory in this case. and ultimately, i worry that the people who are responsible for plotting the murder and carrying it out are walking free. >> right after this happened, right after jamal was killed in
that horribly macabre way, president trump was very reluctant to pin any of the blame on the saudi crown prince mohammad bin salman. we know jared kushner is good friends with mohammad bin salman. here is what the president said back then. they put out a statement on november 20th, 2018. representatives of saudi arabia say that jamal khashoggi was an enemy of the state and a member of the muslim brotherhood. my decision is in no way based on that. this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. king salman and muhammad bin salson vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of mr. khashoggi. our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information but it could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event. maybe he did, and maybe he didn't, exclamation point. so since then, how do you
characterize how the white house has tackled all of this? >> well, i think the white house is far out of step with our intelligence community, with members of congress, the national security and foreign policy establishment of this country, the career people working on these issues are horrified that this might happen. and i think there's a reconsideration of how our relationship with saudi arabia moving forward will be managed. it cannot be status quo. they've been emboldened over a period of many years and it's a country that is defined by a lack of a rule of law. the law is what the royal family says and nothing more. and that's at great odds with how we conduct things here in the united states of america and what we expect from allies. so in the long term, we have to look at changing the relationship, but unfortunately,
this president and his family have close ties with the saudi royal family and i don't think it's going to happen on their watch. >> beyond that personal relationships, what the trump administration has said, the reason it values saudi arabia so much, officially, they say, is because they want saudi arabia's help in fighting iran. is that on balance a reason to maintain these ties? >> you know, i think the fact is that iran and saudi arabia are the two key players in the region. there is an ongoing shifting of power, balance of power game that's been playing out over a period of decades, but favoring one side over the other in such a way. saudi arabia buys as much military equipment from the united states as anybody else. we shouldn't, at the same time, be greenlighting the worst possible behavior in terms of attacking a free press, what
they are doing in yemen and have been for a very long period of time and the suppression and repression of the people inside their own country. i don't think that argument holds water. iran is a problem. it has been a problem for a very long period of time. funding and funneling money resources and turning a blind eye to such aggression meted out by the saudi regime is not the answer. >> jason, we always appreciate getting your perspective. >> merry christmas. >> thank you very much. thanks to our international viewers for watching. "cnnnewsroom" is next and for our u.s. viewers, "new day" continues. >> we'll require votes from all the senators on each of the witnesses and about each of these sets of documents. >> we haven't ruled out witnesses. we've said let's handle this case just like we did with president clinton. fair is fair. >> there are pressure points on both sides here to get something
accomplished. >> president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani spouting conspiracy theorys in a bizarre interview. >> what giuliani is out there doing trying to spin these false alternative narratives. >> it's baffling and certainly doesn't suggest someone who really understands the stakes. >> this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day." it is tuesday, december 24th, christmas eve. >> it is. >> 8:00 in the east. john berman is off. john avlon joins me. >> happy christmas eve. merry christmas eve. >> you as well. santa is already on the move. this is the official norad satellite video of santa. he is over russia, okay. >> got to move quickly over russia. >> the children of russia always deserve presents. >> but i've got two children waiting for him to get to the east coast asap. so this is very important news. >> got it. we'll continue to track santa all morning.
so be sure to stick around for a very special christmas music surprise a little bit later. >> that's going to be good. >> president trump is spending the holidays at his florida estate. the president is expected to speak with troops serves overseas in a video call in about an hour. but his impeachment trial looms and congress is stuck in a stalemate. chuck schumer, the top senate democrat, is still pushing for documents and witnesses with real information. this comes after new emails raise questions about how the aid to ukraine was frozen just 90 minutes after president trump's infamous july 25th phone call to ukraine's new leader. majority leader mitch mcconnell is showing no signs of cutting a deal across the aisle. >> also new this morning, president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani is unloading. a sprawling new interview after his trip to ukraine. giuliani insists he's done nothing wrong in his pursuit of foreign dirt on the bidens. among many things, he'd love to represent the president in this impeachment a