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tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  May 28, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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that deadly day. instead that measure failed earlier today after only six out of 50 republican senators voted yes. nine republicans and two democrats didn't even cast a vote. in moments, we'll have more of our conversation with sicknick's mother and partner. but first let's go to cnn's manu raju live on capitol hill for us. manu, what kind of reaction are you hearing from both parties after the vote to form this commission failed? >> reporter: democrats are is that rightly criticizing republicans, saying they're trying to suppress the truth about what happened here, given that this commission, if it were to be created, would have been ten commissioners selected evenly between the two parties with equal subpoena power, having to report by the end of this year, looking at what happened at the capitol and the outside influencing factors that led to the attack, what democrats are saying is that republicans simply did not want to shine a negative spotlight on their own party, on donald trump, on his role, and want to move on. republicans will say very
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clearly that they do want to move on, they want this issue to be over and politically speaking, they believe they're on better ground heading into the 2022 midterms talking about other issues and not about this issue. and they're also contending that the investigation, if it were to go, an outside commission, in their view would be duplicative even though it would be much broader than the narrow ones happening right now in the capitol. but there are some republicans who are criticizing their own party. senators like lisa murkowski and senator bill cassidy among those who said we should move forward here because of the concern about getting to the bottom of exactly what happened and the belief that if there were not an outside commission, the democrats will take matters into their own hands. >> that's the thing, manu, because republicans don't control the house or the senate or the white house. has speaker pelosi said what she might do next? >> reporter: not specifically, but there is a big push among house democrats to open up their own investigation, a select committee, one member, joaquin
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castro, who was an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial, just told me moments ago that indeed they should move forward with a select committee. i'm hearing that up and down the line. one democrat believes that pelosi in fact will set up that select committee. all that would require is a vote of a majority of the democratic-led house to create one. it would have subpoena power. democrats would lead that commission. republicans undoubtedly would push back and attack it as a partisan endeavor despite their own efforts to scuttle this bipartisan commission. pelosi has not said explicitly what she will do but the expectation is she will do just that, democrats mounting their own investigation. >> manu raju on capitol hill, thank you so much. in the last hour you heard us speak with the mother and also the partner of fallen capitol police officer brian sicknick who died in the aftermath of the capitol insurrection on january 6th. they told me they were both extremely disappointed with republican senators for voting to block the bipartisan january 6th commission. and gladys sicknick, the mother,
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said some of the meetings with those republicans on capitol hill yesterday were tense because, quote, we knew they weren't sincere, unquote. here is the second part of our interview. >> the people that said they were going to vote against the commission, did they give a reason for it? >> a lot of them would default to the, well, you know, it's very partisan. that's baloney. senator collins put an amendment in there to make it very bipartisan. so, you know, i don't know what they were thinking. >> you think they were just looking for an excuse? >> i do, yes. i do. and i think, you know, they just don't want to do the right thing. again, i think they're very -- i think what you're seeing is elitism at its finest. they're very protected. they think that, oh, nothing is ever going to happen to me, i've got law enforcement here. they live in their gated
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communities, or very safe neighborhoods. so they live in this magical, you know, thought process that nothing is ever going to happen to me. that happens to other people. i think they need to get out of that thought process, because like i said yesterday, fbi director wray said at the hearings on january 6th, domestic terrorism is a real threat. i think january 6th was enough for them to open their eyes and say, wow, we better get serious here. and again, if not for them, for the other innocents that were there that day. law enforcement, you know? and their constituents. again, if they are dead, they can't do their job. and i hate to be that blunt about it. and again, i know yesterday i made some of them very uncomfortable. but i'm going to be real about it. >> one of the republicans you met with was senator ron johnson from wisconsin, a republican. he has repeatedly downplayed what has happened, he has said he didn't fear for his life.
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he would have if it had been back lives matter protesters. he's called it peaceful protests. what did you have to say to him? >> i said to him that he got lucky. he got lucky. it could have been very different that day. i said to a lot of them that were resistant, i said, had those two pipe bombs detonated, that would have been a completely different, you know, story. resources, law enforcement resources would have been diverted. and who knows what would have happened. so those who want to run with this narrative that, well, it was a tourist day and i didn't feel threatened, yeah, they got lucky. that's the truth of it. >> gladys, you're not a political person, you're not a political activist, this is your first real intense submersion in this world. what do you think of it? the good and the bad.
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>> i said this morning, i said, i can't believe that i have a child that's going to be in the history books for all the wrong reasons, because he was such a good person. and he was so good at his job. and he was texting his buddies to see if they were okay on that day, while he was fighting for four hours, four plus hours, without any help. >> you were introduced to some of brian's colleagues, capitol police officers, yesterday, friends of his. tell us about that. >> they're just -- they're just wonderful people. it's a family. they consider themselves family. and they really have each other's backs. they were devastated, absolutely devastated. i mean, and all these other people that are saying that it was no big deal, they went home that night to have dinner with their families. did they watch television? and see what happened? and they didn't feel anything?
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it's amazing to me. and all the cops that were hurt, i mean, there are a whole bunch of them that were hurt quite badly. >> forever. >> forever. i think people don't realize how badly some of them were hurt. >> and brian didn't get to go home. >> nope. >> no, he didn't. he didn't. it's very disturbing to know that his last moments on earth were, you know, dealing with that day. and i think what a lot of the general public aren't aware of is that the sliver of video footage that was released to the public only show a very small part of the story. officer edwards, the female officer that was standing next to him, prior to that incident that was caught on camera, she actually was assaulted, brutally, and was slammed into
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the ground head first, into the concrete and suffered a severe concussion. but yet went back out again, as did brian. he had been in another area of the capitol grounds and had been fighting vigorously and had been moved to that area with officer edwards and had just been caught on camera at that moment. so, i mean, this is the thing that the officers had been through that day. i mean, some of them had been severely hurt, you know, and just got back up and dusted themselves off and went back out again. >> i know that brian was sprayed with a chemical spray during the insurrection, he collapsed after returning to his division office. what is your understanding about how he died, what the cause of death was? >> so i will say this. i accept the medical examiner's report, conclusion of his death. and i understand it just as everyone else does.
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i don't want to get into the details. >> right, no, we don't have to. >> but i accept the science and what they have said. until something else comes out, i can only go by what i know right now. that could change, i don't know. but i will say that stress does a terrible thing to the body. who knows what would have happened had he not encountered what he did that day? >> and i'm sure you feel the same way. if that had not happened, you think he would have been alive. >> absolutely. >> if there had not been an insurrection. >> absolutely. >> he was very healthy. he was on the bicycle division. it's a very hard job, people don't realize how hard it is. he was in very good shape. >> he deployed twice as part of the new jersey national guard. did you always know he was going to serve his country? >> no. he never wanted to join anything, even as a child.
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then he comes home one day and says, i joined the air national guard. i go, you made up for lost time, didn't you? >> that's funny. >> he was really quiet, very quiet. >> and then became a policeman. >> that's what he did in the guard. >> but even after. >> right, right. >> and where do you go from here? so there isn't going to be a bipartisan commission this way. it's possible that speaker pelosi will try to form a select committee. how else will you two continue to fight for brian's legacy, and what can those people watching right now who are also disappointed, what can they do? >> they can definitely write their senators and congressmen and say they want answers. that they want democracy protected. because again, it's not just about -- and i don't want to get political here, but it's not just about democrats winning, right?
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democrats. this could happen to a republican, right? >> mitt romney, we saw him running for his life during the insurrection. >> exactly. exactly. so they're not using their head here. and, you know, i have to say, i really feel that had january 6th not happened and emboldened a lot of people, officer billy evans might still be here. so, i mean, again, this is a ripple effect. this needs to stop. you can do something by writing your congressman, your senators, and say, you want this to stop. >> and i want to ask you, gladys, we've heard a little bit about brian and we've been covering him since the horrible day. what else should we know about your son? >> he was a gentle soul except when he's pushed into the corner, you don't mess with him. but otherwise, he would do anything for anybody.
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>> and i want to ask you about the necklaces that you wear. tell us about that. >> each of us have a necklace from the funeral home, they made these up with his ashes in them, so we always have him with us. >> and they have brian's ashes in them. we're so grateful to have these. >> tell me what it feels like to have that around your neck. is he with you? >> yeah. because, you know, when i walk, i take long walks, when i walk, i'm always holding -- i don't realize i do until i do. because when i walked, he used to work from 3:00 to 11:00 and then i would take a walk and he would leave the house about 2:00. and so i would talk to him, text him back and forth, and so it was kind of like, when i'm walking, i'm holding him. >> we're so grateful for your activism and for your presence here today in talking to us.
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and this is not the last day that i'm going to say brian sicknick. and this is not the last day that i'm going to remind people of what happened that day and how it wasn't just an attack on brian, it was an attack on democracy, as you put it, sandra. so thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and may his memory be a blessing. >> thank you so much. >> hopefully what he did is a good thing, what he did in his life. >> it will be a blessing. >> mm-hmm. >> it is a rare honor that journalists get every now and then to talk to real people who are trying to turn their grief into something good for the rest of us. and i do want to thank sandra garza and gladys sicknick, again, for trusting us with that interview. i want to bring in the panel right now to talk about what we just heard. paul, your reaction. you hear these two very strong women, grieving women,
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frustrated, begging republicans in the senate to vote, just to create a commission to look into what happened when the capitol was attacked. and yet, 35 of them voted against it. >> just amazing grace under extraordinary pressure that mrs. sicknick just showed there, jake, in that interview. every parent's nightmare, every partner's nightmare. >> i can't hear paul, so let's -- we lost paul's audio. s.e., let's go to you. i know you're disappointed at your party and how they voted today. 35 republicans voting against it. nine republicans not even bothering to show up to vote. >> well, my question to the republican party would be, what are you here for? what is your function? if not to, you know, preserve
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the republic and protect american democracy? if you have no curiosity about what happened on january 6th, first of all, i think it's just because you believe it will implicate you. but also, i'm not sure what you stand for as a party. certainly not the republican party i was taught about in school and learned as a young adult and joined as a young woman. and if you look at the way america is set up and the two parties are set up, the point of having two strong parties is to bring a competition of ideas to the table. and one party is bringing those ideas. i might not agree with many of them. but the other table is coming to that meeting speaking gibberish, with nonsense, talking about dr. seuss and mr. potato head and conspiracy theories and lies, making inane, absurd comparisons between the nazis and mask
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mandates, and literally not showing up to do their jobs. so we don't have two strong parties, that's clear. we have almost a failed party on the one side, and that's awful for the country. it's also just incredibly embarrassing to watch an american political body cower as they have, just to fetishize and service the emotional narcissism of one guy, the guy, by the way, who lost it all for you, who lost. it's maddening. it's maddening. and when i watch women like you had on, who lost people on that day, it is -- it's worse than maddening, it's infuriating. it's a disgrace. >> paul begala, i think your audio is back. you were saying nobody ever wants to be thrust into a position like this, you were
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praising sandra and gladys. >> they're just remarkable people. and the courage that they showed, the courage officer sicknick and his sisters and brothers in law enforcement showed that day, it's extraordinary. and we're not calling on politicians to show that kind of courage. we're not calling on them to risk their lives, risk their limbs, risk their eyesight, rusk their lives the way though the capitol and metro police officers did. just to stand up and look at the facts. just so people know, there were two pipe bombs, mrs. sicknick referenced them, two pipe bombs found, 11 molotov cocktails, a dozen firearms, including a 9-millimeter and an assault weapon. even a policeman's shield was used as a weapon. a flagpole, baseball bats, bear spray. this is a terrorist attack. and the only thing that saved our democracy was officer sicknick and those other capitol police officers and later the national guard. and for politicians to not even be willing to cast a vote to
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investigate when these officers laid down their lives, it's just outrageous. i don't know how they could look mrs. sicknick and ms. garza in the eye. >> and s.e., as if to illustrate the point about what is happening to this once-great political party, congressman paul gosar of arizona, a republican, a few hours ago tweeted a tribute to one of the insurrectionists who was killed on that day by capitol police, and he actually was quoting the lyrics from the u2 song "pride in the name of love" about the assassination of martin luther king to apply to her being killed by a police officer, a law enforcement officer, while his republican senate colleagues were voting to kill this commission. >> and also conducting a phony audit of the election at the same time. again, it's maddening and
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disorienting. it's also lunacy. it's such an embarrassment. this is a serious issue. look, republicans took a lot of flak for all of the commissions and investigations they had for benghazi. and i think benghazi needed investigating. that was a tragedy, what happened that day, and should never happen again. but what they were saying at the time was, it's important to know why something like this could happen. and this didn't happen in libya. it happened on our doorstep. it happened in our front yard, at the united states capitol, to not want to know more about that, to not want to ask questions on the record and find out how to prevent this from happening again, is completely indefensible. it's indefensible. there's no good reason other than you think it will implicate you. and i think that's what republicans are worried about. >> paul, i guess the big question for nancy pelosi is, does she do something that is under the guise of being
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bipartisan in the same way this commission was going to be -- we lost paul begala. i'll ask you, s.e. it's up to nancy pelosi. should she just do a traditional select committee which is the majority controls the committee and republicans get to name their people and it just becomes a traditional committee, or does she try something new, which is probably outside her comfort zone, to trust republicans and, you know, put liz cheney on the committee or whatever, and have it actually be 50/50 and try to keep it bipartisan? >> i think keeping it bipartisan would definitely give it more credibility. but look, there is a wing of the republican party, it's a majority of the republican party to be honest, that is not going to care, no matter what comes out of this. and that is donald trump's most lasting damaging legacy. the way he set up the system, completely undermined the idea that facts and truth exist, that one can arrive at a fact or a
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truth. so it doesn't really matter, i think, to convincing a large majority of the republican party what comes out of this, what will matter is for the records of history and the rest of the country who really i think deeply cares, not about the politics of why this happened but how it happened and how to prevent it again. >> s.e. cupp and paul begala, thank you very much. up next, getting real. the choice words former president obama reportedly had for his successor, donald trump. stay with us. ss uses unconventional thinking to help your business realize new possibilities. only one 5g partner offers unmatched network, support, and value-without any trade offs. i have an idea for a trade. oh yeah, you going to place it? not until i'm sure. why don't you call td ameritrade for a strategy gut check? what's that? you run it by an expert, you talk about the risk
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faster. vmware. welcome change. in our world lead today, russia's cyber war against the united states is clearly escalating. just weeks ahead of president biden's summit with vladimir putin. microsoft has detailed a global cyberattack on more than 150, 150 government agencies, think tanks and other organizations, most of which were in the united states. and as cnn's alex marquardt reports for us now, the company believes the hackers are part of the same russian group behind last year's devastating attack on the software vendor solarwinds.
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>> reporter: more than 3,000 email accounts in 24 different countries hit by hackers from russia's foreign intelligence service. government agencies, think tanks, human rights and humanitarian groups, all targets. microsoft first reported the hack, saying the attackers used an email platform used by the american aid agency usaid. one email from earlier this week promised a new document from donald trump on the election. instead it contained a malicious link designed to allow hackers in and to infect other computers. it was a loud, brazen attack. the hackers likely knew they would get caught. >> they seem not to care, right? they clearly know this is going to be discovered. it's really hard to carry out a 3,000-person spear phishing effort across governments and organizations all over the world and not get discovered. >> reporter: unlike last year's sta stealthy, sophisticated solarwinds breach which the u.s.
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intelligence community said russian intelligence also carried out. >> we concluded they had interfered in the election and solarwinds was totally inappropriate. >> reporter: last month the biden administration sanctioned russia for its malicious cyber activity. it kicked out ten russian diplomats. but president biden also proposed a face-to-face summit with russian president vladimir putin to ease tensions, set to happen in under three weeks. >> we want a stable, predictable relationship. >> reporter: the american punishment and the prospect of a meeting between the leaders clearly doing little to stop russia from stepping up their cyber attacks. >> this is probably preparation for the upcoming summit. they want to know what we're thinking when we go in that door. they don't really believe in going into negotiations not knowing what the other side is thinking. >> reporter: in an exclusive interview with cnn, secretary of defense lloyd austin said the u.s. has the ability to go on the offense if the president chooses. >> i have a number of offensive options.
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and yes, we will always maintain credible, effective options. >> reporter: jake, we just got an update from microsoft with good news, they said in part, we are not seeing evidence of any significant number of compromised organizations at this time. that's similar to what i've heard from the white house as well, that there appears to be limited impact from this russian series of attacks. the biden administration has not yet accused russia of being behind this but it could certainly make the summit in switzerland between biden and putin next month contentious. jake? >> all right, alex marquardt, thanks so much. chris krebs, good to see you as always. i want to share the email that went out to 3,000 different accounts across 150
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organizations. how sophisticated was this attack? >> jake, thanks for having me on. you know, it actually reminds me of some of the spear phishing or email-based attacks that the russian sbr, which is the foreign intelligence service, the same from the solarwinds attack, that they used to use, kind of loud, almost spray and pray and hope they get somebody to click through. fire eye, one of their seniors said the same thing today on twitter. look, i think that this is pretty standard operating procedure for the russian intelligence service right now with the intent of collecting as much diplomatic intelligence as they can. >> microsoft says that they think these are the same hackers from the solarwinds attack in 2020. we know that group was affiliated with the dnc hack back in 2016. that means of course over the period of three different administrations, obama, trump,
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biden, nothing has stopped or changed the behavior of these russian operatives. >> yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same. my assessment is that they likely see this, whether it was earlier attacks against compromises of the dnc, or the solarwinds campaign, or this one, they see this probably as an espionage style attack, which is not destructive so it doesn't cross any red lines. i think this is where we need to have a conversation on whether any of these have been truly norms-breaking and if they have, what are the options we have that are potentially n nonesc nonescalatory, that we can get them to change their behavior and knock it off. at the same time we have to be focusing on the ransomware problem. it's two weeks on, people are getting gas in their car and it seems like we've almost forgotten and moved on from that event, colonial pipeline. >> biden did try some response,
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he tried sanctions last month in response to the solarwinds attack. obviously that didn't prevent this attack from happening. what can the u.s. do to hold russia accountable? because the belief is if russia really wanted to stop these operatives from doing it, whether they're gangsters or part of the government, they could. what more can the u.s. do to hold russia accountable within the realm of not starting an actual war? >> well, i think we have a number of economic options at hand and we should be partnering with our partners, our allies like the united kingdom and other european allies, to cut the russians off from the global economy, if this is what we've decided is beyond acceptable behavior. but we also need to cabin off what we think is too much and what may be still within the acceptable bounds of espionage. i am firmly of the belief that ransomware has gone on for far too long under the watchful eye of the kremlin.
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they know exactly what they're doing. that needs to stop. we cannot have any more hospitals, any more schools, any more critical infrastructure like colonial, that has to stop. the biden administration has an opportunity this summer to send that message loud and clear to moscow. >> if you are advising president biden, like you note, he's going to meet with vladimir putin in just three weeks in geneva. if you were advising him, a, would you tell him he should meet with putin even though these attacks are going on, and b, what would you have him say to putin? if you don't stop it, we're going to do attacks on your critical infrastructure and you'll see how bad it can actually get? >> i don't think that that's a path to success. i don't think that offensive operations against their own infrastructure, they don't have the same vulnerabilities we don't do, they don't have the same level of connectivity. we need to look at what's going to make them blink, and that is things like their oil and gas
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shipments. it's a little-known fact but the united states still imports russian oil. we could change that. we also need to take a hard look at what's going on in europe, in germany, with the nord stream pipeline that's coming into germany. that's another lever that we could pull. there are options. there are russian oligarchs that own soccer teams in the unity kingdom. there are things we can take off the table for them that will put pressure amongst putin's group of friends on him to knock it off. >> chris krebs, thank you so much. hope you have a great memorial day weekend. i appreciate your time. >> you too, jake, thanks. up next, one federal judge's ruling is getting some attention and not for the first time. we'll explain. stay with us. with a cfp® professional. a cfp® professional can help you build a complete financial plan. visit letsmakeaplan.org to find your cfp® professional. ♪
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in our politics lead now, typically federal judges get noticed for their rulings. but district judge amy berman jackson is once again getting attention for the words she uses to explain her decisions. in an opinion this week the judge wrote, quote, the sitting drumbeat that inspired defendant to take up arms has not faded away. six months later, the canard the investigation was stolen with repeated daily on major news outlets and from the corridors of power in state and federal government, not to mention in the near daily full minmination the former president. as cnn's tom foreman reports, this is far from the first time judge berman jackson has used her bench to take a stand. >> reporter: amid all the former
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president's complaints about investigations, accusations, and court cases, amy berman jackson stands out as a federal judge who takes on team trump. >> the courts are not supposed to direct or control a grand jury investigation but they do have some supervisory power. >> reporter: that's her in 1995. she's not on camera often. but her sharp rulings resonate throughout washington. >> total exoneration. complete vindication. >> reporter: when then-president trump said the russia investigation cleared him and attorney general bill barr essentially backed that false claim, she suggested barr was acting more like a pr flack than an officer of the court. >> look, i am a loyal supporter of donald trump. >> reporter: when she gave trump associate roger stone more than three years in prison for lying to congress, trump and his supporters screamed bias. she hit back. he was not prosecuted as some have complained of standing up for the president.
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he was prosecuted for covering up for the president. trump commuted the sentence anyway. jackson sentenced former campaign manager paul manafort to more than seven years for financial crimes, saying he knew exactly what he was doing. trump pardoned him too. manafort associate rick gates got 45 days plus probation as jackson recognized his cooperation with prosecutors, saying if people don't have the facts, democracy doesn't work. shan wu represented gates. >> her rulings whether it's a sparsely attended courtroom or packed with media, it's always the same. >> reporter: she became a defense lawyer, and in 2010, barack obama nominated her for the federal bench. she's handled cases tied to the capitol riot, the benghazi
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probes, and political corruption, taking democrats to task, same as republicans, telling one, as a public official, you're supposed to live up to a higher standard of ethics and integrity. and that's not unfair. you chose that role for yourself. it all fits into the role judge jackson has chosen for herself as a painstaking, thorough, and blunt champion of integrity in a town where sometimes there aren't many. jake? >> there certainly are not. tom foreman, thank you so much, appreciate it. coming up next, a politically connected family member reportedly pitched their own reality tv show and it was not someone with a last name trump. stay with us. ♪ from the moment i laid eyes on you ♪ ♪ this is what i said, i said ♪ ♪ i see it ♪ ♪ and i like it ♪ ♪ and i want it ♪ ♪ yes, i do (do, do, do) ♪ ♪ i need it ♪ ♪ to make me happy ♪ ♪ baby, yes i do mean you ♪
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in our politics lead, a new book chock-full of interesting anecdotes and racy expletives from the biden and obama world is offering an up close look at the divide in the democratic party, perhaps getting the most
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attention is what former president obama really thought about his successor donald trump. we're joined now by the book's author, edward isaac dobert. thank you so much and congratulations, the book is great. >> thank you. >> we'll start with the thing getting a lot of attention, obama called trump, behind the scenes, because publicly he kept his mouth shut pretty much, he called him a madman, racist, sexist pig, that f-ing lunatic, except he said the word. so this is really what was going on while obama was holding his tongue for all those years. >> yeah, the book traces what happened starting from election night 2016. it's got obama and biden watching trump win in the prologue of the book, and traces that all the way through february, actually, i had an interview with president biden talking about this, and all of what was happening behind the scenes. obama is a perfect example of it. there was the sense that he was
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detached, not caring about what was going on. what i showed is in his private moments he's reacting to this, he's really upset about what's happening, he's really upset about trump, doesn't like what's going on, and you see it start to come out by the time he's on the campaign trail on fall, almost cursing in public, but not. these are the curses he was using in private. >> it's interesting, you also describe president obama in harsh terms although i've heard other democrats use the same words, as a parasite on the party because he didn't build a bench. you wrote, he oversaw a net loss of 947 state legislative seats, 11 senators, 13 governors. you also say only aides described the former president's treatment of that party in that sense as benign neglect. is biden learning from this? >> it seems like it. when trump won in 2016, a lot of democrats said, how did this happen? it was a total surprise. i started the book by looking
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into what was rot under the surface and how that was attempted to be corrected by activists, like at the women's march, but also people moving quietly, having quiet dinners, and some of the leaders that led to that giant primary field, 26 people running and biden figuring out a way to win in the end. >> one of the most shocking stories you break in this, and it's full of scoops, but one of the most shocking ones is about biden's son hunter. you reveal in the summer of 2019, so his dad is running for president, he's pitching a reality show about himself to producers. you say, quote, if beau biden didn't need joe, that's his late son, hunter spent his life trading on his father's name. >> if you think about it, beau biden famously didn't have his name "biden" on his uniform so
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he wouldn't be treated differently. but hunter biden has lotte gott lot of jobs, a lot of contracts, because people knew who his father was. joe biden was already running for president. people were aware hunter biden was a problem. and in the summer of that year, he is meeting with producers, as you said, pitching a reality show. one of the producers said to him, does your father know what you're doing here? he says, yeah, he knows, he knows. joe biden himself had a sort of -- i describe it in the book as as a willful naivete. hunter biden was not always living up to that trust. >> what was the show supposed to be? >> there were a couple of loose concepts, it never really go on the to like the pitching of a serious thing. there were some traveling ideas. it was very weird and the producers that i spoke to about what they were getting. >> you interviewed president biden, as you note, after he was
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inaugurated. he told you how he misjudged how many americans would buy into trump's stolen. is he under any illusion that he is actually healing this nation? because even though i believe his heart's in the right place, he isn't. >> well, of course, we're only fourish months in. i think biden has a concept that is both that he will try to just lower the temperature, lower the partisanship and that will have an effect over time. i guess i should go back. when he got into the race initially, he did have this idea he would be the deal maker and sort of resetting publics. he learned, he saw the riot. he, i think, is entering this presidency thinking about everything differently and thinking about republicans differently. so, yes, he is negotiating with them a little bit and talking
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about it, but he's also aware that it might take a firmer hand going forward. >> yeah, it might. "battle for the soul" great book. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. coming up, victims and descendents of the tulsa race massacre have long called for reparations. with democrats in power in washington, might that actually become a reality? the light. ♪ it comes from within. it drives you. and it guides you. to shine your brightest. ♪ as you charge ahead. illuminating the way forward. a light maker. recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. introducing the all-electric lyriq. lighting the way. ♪
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♪ in our national lead now, the department of homeland security confirms that it shared safety information with local authorities ahead of this weekend's events marking 100
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years since a horrific racist massacre in tulsa, oklahoma. while there is no specific threat, officials say the events may be an attractive target for white supremacists. a new cnn film about the tulsa massacre "dreamland" appears this monday. our abby phillip looks at what's being done to compensate the massacre's survives and the descendents of other victims. >> how long would you wait for your justice? >> hughes van ellis, viola ford fletcher. these are the last survivors of the 1921 tulsa race massacre. >> i will never forget the violence of the white mob when we left our home. i'm 107 years old and have never seen justice. i pray that one day i will. >> reporter: for decades massacre victims and their descendents have called for reparations. now with democrats in power in
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washington, the issue is being seriously debated and studied. >> the victims of this atrocity have been denied justice for far too long. >> there's only one reason why descendents of the tulsa massacre have not been compensated, and that reason is racism. >> this mural and half a city block are all that are left of greenwood, also known as black wall street. it was a city within a city where black businesses, art and culture thrived. in 18 hours, it was destroyed and burned to the ground by a racist mob. historians believe as many as 300 black residents were killed. >> what do reparations mean to you? >> reparations, what it means is to repair. we must have financial compensation to those who suffered the massacre. >> with the eyes of the world trained on tulsa, attorney mario simmons is fighting back, suing the city for restitution and
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calling for the massacre's centennial commission to give back to the victims some of what has been raised. >> people are starting to understand what happened in tulsa and the magnitude of the devastation and destruction. >> today white-owned businesses and corporations are rapidly developing land in greenwood as black businesses see their presence dwindling through gentrification. reparations have taken different forms across the country. in evanevanston, illinois, theyl give reparations to victims of policies. here in tulsa, there has been far more resistance from elected officials, including the mayor, gt bynum. >> making cash payments to people, it divides the community. >> i disagree. again, what is divisive is when we're not willing to talk about
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the truth, when we're not willing to talk about the harm done. what i am saying is, even as a descendent, let's take care of the survivors right now that are in our face and let's take care of them. >> many black tulsans we spoke to said reparations should not just be about paying money to the victims of the massacre, but also about rectifying the long-term harms caused by it and the decades of systemic racism that followed. abby phillip, cnn, washington. >> be sure to tune in to the cnn film "dreamland, the burning of black wall street" 9:00 p.m. eastern monday right here on cnn. my guests will include pete buttigieg, kirsten gillibrand, michael mccall and congressman hakeem jeffries. until then, follow me on
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facebook or instagram or tiktok or twitter, @jaketapper. tweet the show @theleadcnn. wolf blitzer is right next door in "the situation room." i'll see you sunday morning. have a great weekend. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, republicans block a commission to investigate the deadly capitol insurrection. top democrats say they're shaming the senate. we have exclusive reaction from the mother and the partner of the fallen police officer who was attacked by rioters. also, chilling new images and details on the 22,000 rounds of ammunition and multiple weapons found in the home of the san jose gunman. and the cdc tells vaccinated summer campers they can now take