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tv   State of the Union with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash  CNN  August 1, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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the war has changed as the delta variant rips through the unvaccinated, troubling new guidance about how easily the virus spreads. will the u.s. bring back more restrictions? >> in all probability. >> dr. francis collins and ohio governor mike dewine join us next. and big f 'ing deal. the senate is working through the weekend. hoping to pass president biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill. >> this is an important deal. i know all the parties want to get this right. >> after that the hard part starts. key negotiators susan collins and joe manchin will be here. plus, in the balance. millions of americans bracing for eviction after a pandemic
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era ban expires. how did democrats fall short? democratic congresswoman alexandria owe case yes cortez has been sounding the alarm and joins me ahead. coronavirus has grown 50% in the last week, 50%. pain and death for unvaccinated people. it is largely preventible. grappling with new information that shows the delta variant is not only more transmissible but more harmful than previous variants, again for people who are not vaccinated. all of which has the u.s. moving backwards. largely because roughly 40% of those eligible for the vaccine 12 and older remain unvaccinated. now americans in areas of higher
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spread, more than 80% of the u.s. are being advised to wear masks indoors regardless of their vaccination status, which has left a whole lot of people worried and frankly confused and others angry about yet another reversal in federal guidelines, one that raises more questions than it answers. prap the most important facts for you at home to remember today are these, less than .001% of those fully vaccinated have experienced a fatal breakthrough case. less than .004% of those fully vaccinated had to be hospitalized. in other words, the vaccines work. the vaccines remain the best way to protect yourselves from this virus, period, full stop. one encouraging note, after the new warnings about the delta variant and as the federal government and private businesses began to require vaccination, the rate of those getting their shots has risen
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almost 30%. joining now director of the national institutes of health dr. anthony fauci's boss, dr. francis collins. dr. collins, thanks so much for joining us. so two months ago you said that unvaccinated americans in areas with low vaccination rates were, in your view, sitting ducks. that was even before this new guidance. what is your fear about how bad this could get if people watching right now do not get vaccinated? >> well, look at the numbers, jake, of cases have gone up about four fold in the last couple of weeks. we're pushing up towards 100,000 cases a day now, particularly so in those hot spots where vaccination rates are still quite low, maybe 30%. that would be missouri and arkansas, louisiana, florida, and those are areas of deep concern. the good news is that people are getting the message, you may
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have seen the data that in louisiana vaccination rates have gone up three fold in the last two weeks overall for the country vaccination rates are up 56% in the last two weeks. so i think maybe i'm trying to look on the bright side of this. what's the silver lining of this? is that people are waking up to this. this may be a tipping point for those who have been hesitant to say, okay, it's time. i hope that's what's happening. that's what desperately needs to happen if we're going to get this delta variant put-back in its place because right now it's having a pretty big party in the middle of the country. >> yeah, no, i hope that that's what happens as well. i have to say there's some confusion out there about the biden administration and the cdc guidance that vaccinated americans need to again wear masks indoors in most of the country. can you clear this up? do most vaccinated americans
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need to wear masks indoors in order to protect themselves and other vaccinated americans or is this primarily about protecting unvaccinated americans including children under 12 or people who are refusing to get vaccinated? >> it's mostly about protecting the unvaccinated. that's where the real serious risks of illness are. if you're vaccinated right now, your likelihood of getting sick is 25 fold reduced. you gave some numbers right before this segment, jake, about that. the vaccines work extremely well. the new news, much of this comes from that outbreak in barnstable county, massachusetts, is that vaccinated people are capable of getting the virus in their nose and throat and they do seem to have high enough levels of the virus that they might be contagious. hence, the reason if you're in a community where the virus is spreading, which is 75% of
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counties, it is prudent to put on a mask even if you're vaccinated just in case you might be somebody who's currently spreading it. you don't want to do that to kids under 12 or some other folks who remain unvaccinated. it's just good, common sense. i know it has confused everybody because it's a change in direction. if we can step aside from all of the political assumptions which don't fit here and look at the data, that's the data. >> some experts fear this new mask guidance could give the impression vaccines don't work to be clear as we've been saying on this show for months. the vaccines work. the vaccines work. but do you worry that these miss understandings might actually end up discouraging people from getting the vaccine? >> i do worry that some superficial interpretation might lead to this conclusion which would be absolutely wrong, jake. i'm encouraged to see vaccination rates are going up
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and not down. again, the vaccines are incredibly effective, even against delta. i'll give you the numbers again. if you're vaccinated now, your chance of getting infected go down by 3 1/2 fold. your chance of having symptoms go down by 8 fold. your chance of ending up with illness significant enough to be in the hospital goes down 25 fold. that is so fantastically good for any vaccine. we didn't really have a right to dare they would be this good in the real world and they are, even against delta. if anybody's listening who's been on the fence, it's a tipping point now. let's try to get everybody out there and start to be part of the winning team to roll up your sleeves. >> so some of the confusion also has to do with what we who are vaccinated are being told to do. i want to understand something. if i'm fully vaccinated and i'm in a roomful of other people all of whom are fully vaccinated, i assume it's pretty unlikely that any vaccinated individual in that room would, a, have covid
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in the first place and, b, spread it to another fully vaccinated person in the room. that would be two breakthrough infections and then of course that second person passes it on. what are the odds of that happening and can vaccinated americans be around other vaccinated people without masks? >> probably depends on what the total number of people in that crowded space are. but you make a really good point. if you're talking about a small party like i might have at my house for six or eight people who are all fully vaccinated, i do not believe at this point we need to put masks on to be next to each other. if there are 100 people? how are you going to be sure about people's vaccination status? maybe there are some immunocompromised people there who though they are vaccinated and not fully protected, then the dynamic changes. there will be need for common sense there. >> some businesses are going a step further and requiring proof of vaccinations not just for employees, but even for
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customers in some cases. audience members for broadway plays and musicals need to be vaccinated. some bars in san francisco and d.c. are requiring proof of vaccinations. do you think as a public health measure it would be good for more businesses to require vaccine credentials in order to have vaccinated customers? >> as a public health person who wants to see this pandemic end, yes. i think anything we can do to encourage reluctant folks to get vaccinated because they'll want to be part of these public events, that's a good thing. i'm delighted to see employers like disney and walmart coming out and asking their staff to be vaccinated. i'm glad to see the president has said all federal employees. i oversee n.i.h. with 40,000 people need to get vaccinated or if they're not to get regular testing which is inconvenient. all of those steps i think is in
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the right direction. maybe that's what it will take for some of those who have still been a little reluctant to say, okay, it's time. the data will support the decision. they are making the right choice for their own safety. sometimes it takes a nudge. >> should airlines require all flyers who are eligible to be vaccinated be vaccinated before boarding their planes? >> i think that's up to the airlines. i do think a case could be made for that and that would be another incentive for some of those who are reluctant. people wouldn't be surprised, i think, to start to see that happen. if you're thinking of international travel and you're not yet vaccinated, it might be time to get started. >> florida is approaching as you noted a record number of coronavirus cases. this comes as ron desan sis signed an executive order to prevent schools from requiring masks. he's threatening to withhold dollars from schools that impose
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a mask mandate anyway. to be clear, the risk to kids remains very, very low. i do wonder as a public health measure, is there a public health reason to ban schools from requiring masks and are you afraid at all that banning mask requirements might cost lives? >> well, i don't understand the ban. certainly this seems like something local officials ought to be able to decide based on their community's circumstance. we do know that kids are capable of getting pretty sick. we've lost about 400 children who have died from covid-19 since this all started. kids can also get long covid where they aren't maybe that sick with the acute illness but then end up months later with difficulties with brain fog and fatigue that interferes with their school performance. so this is not just to be dismissed as a zero risk. of course, kids also live in homes and there may be people in those homes who are perhaps immunosuppressed and they could
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bring home the virus and cause a bad outcome. it makes common sense in a community where the virus is spreading and that's pretty much all of florida to prevent that which includes mask wearing for kids in schools even though it's inconvenient. i think maybe when you look on the scale of things that we're asked to do, being asked to wear a mask is perhaps not quite the huge challenge/burden that sometimes it's being portrayed. kids are pretty adaptable. what we need to do is be sure they get back to school. that's really critical so they have a chance for social interactions and learning. that we must protect. maybe the best way to do that is to be sure you're not allowing outbreaks in the schools by having everybody run around without the masks. >> very quickly if you could, doctor, how quickly before -- how soon before we see a vaccine that has been approved for use by kids under the age of 12? >> well, you know that that is being reviewed right now by the
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fda. pfizer having submitted the data about that. the question is will they decide to issue that as an emergency use for that age group or will they fold it in when they put forward the full approval of the vaccine, which is also intensely under study and peter marks at fda has just recently indicated it's an all hands on deck effort to speed that up. i know everybody wants that to happen as soon as possible but you want it done right. >> dr. francis collins of the national institutes of health. thank you very much for your time today. >> glad to be with you, jake. glad we can talk about these issues. they really matter. moving to capitol hill. chuck schumer said those working through the weekend need more time to finish their work. the bill includes a bipartisan agreement for $550 billion in new infrastructure spending. so far there's not an actual written bill to upgrade the nation's roads, bridges, broadband to vote on. joining us, one of the
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negotiators of the infrastructure bill. republican senator susan collins of maine. thanks so much. good to see you in person. it's been a long, long time. so you've been working all weekend. what's the holdup been? when will senators be able to see a bill? >> well, it's hard to translate an agreement into actual bill language but it's important to note that on friday night we did send out to senate offices a large amount of the authorizing the policy legislation. overnight we've been finishing up the spending provisions, appropriations provisions and marrying them to the bill. we really are just about finished. large parts of text have already been shared with senate offices. >> do you think it will be introduced this week? will it pass this week? >> that certainly is my expectation and my hope. we're going into the session today at 12 and i think we will
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be able to lay down the bill later today and begin perhaps consideration of some amendments. my hope is that we'll finish the bill by the end of the week. >> and will it have at least 10 republican senators to vote for it? >> i believe that it will. this bill is good for america. every senator can look at bridges and roads and need for more broadband, waterways in their state seaports and airports and see the benefits, the very concrete benefits, no pun intended, of this legislation. it's going to make us more competitive, more productive. it's going to create good jobs. >> i'm not sure why but former president trump has vowed to help defeat in primaries any republican senator who supports your deal. you were just re-elected so i know this isn't necessarily a concern for you right now.
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but are those threats working on scaring some of your fellow republicans away from supporting this bill? >> i think each senator will make his or her own decision and look at the benefits to his or her own state. i have worked with the members of our group so that we have a state-by-state analysis and in the end i think we will have more than 10 republicans who support the bill. it's worth pointing out that president trump proposed an infrastructure package of $1.5 trillion so he, too, at one point recognized the need for investment in infrastructure. >> yeah, no, i said i don't know why he's against it other than he's not part of it. let's change the subject, if we can, to a dark day in the u.s., january 6th. you supported the failed effort to create an independent january 6th commission when it came to
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the senate although senate republicans ultimately defeated it in general. the house has a new select committee. there are two republican members, kin singer and cheney. they held their first hearing this week. four law enforcement officers testified. it was gut wrenching testimony at times. these are four who helped defend the capitol, who helped defend you that day. take a listen. >> what makes the struggle harder and more painful is to know so many of my fellow citizens, including so many of the people i put my life at risk to defend, are downplaying or outright denying what happened. the indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful. >> what do you think about the -- and i'm not including you, but what do you think about the indifference shown to the law enforcement by republican lawmakers that we have seen with even some people smearing them and do you have faith in this bipartisan committee?
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>> well, first let me point out that i met with mike fanone and i met with other police officers to hear about their physical injuries, their emotional trauma from that very dark day in our history, and they are still -- the capitol police are still working 10 to 14 hours a day. they need more help. they risked their lives to defend everybody who was in the capitol that day including me. i fought very hard to have an independent, bipartisan, non-partisan outside commission to look at all of the events of that day and i'm very disappointed that it was not approved. i think it would have had far more credibility than speaker pelosi's partisan committee that she hassett up but we should have had a 9/11 style commission
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to fully look at what happened. mitch mcconnell opposed it. there are two republicans on the committee, cheney and kinsinger, do you have faith in them? >> i respect both of them but i do not think it was right for the speaker to decide which republicans should be on the committee. normally you have a select committee. the minority leader and the speaker get to pick the members. >> yeah. i mean, just -- the reason she did that is because at least two of the members mccarthy picked to be on the committee are election liars. jim jordan is possibly a material witness. he spoke with trump that day. >> there were many communications with president trump that day and, look, as you know, i believe that he -- that while the rioters are primarily responsible for what happened, there's no doubt in my mind that
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president trump helped instigate and motivate the rioters and that's one reason i voted to impeach him. the hallmark of our democracy is the peaceful transfer of power, and for anyone, the rioters, the president, anyone to try to interfere with the electoral college count is completely unacceptable. >> looking forward, the state of mississippi has asked the supreme court to overturn roe versus wade. the court's slated to hear arguments in the fall. you said to me that you didn't think neil gorsuch would vote to overturn roe v. wade. you told my colleague dana bash you didn't think brett kavanaugh would vote to overturn roe versus wade. now there's amy coney barrett. are you still confident the supreme court will protect roe v. wade? >> i realize it's hazardous to
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predict what's going to happen, but if you look at the roberts court and how it has ruled, there were a lot of naysayers on the left that said they would never hold up the affordable care act. they did. they said they would never hold up same-sex marriages, neil gorsuch, supreme court justice, wrote the decision on banning discrimination in the workplace. so i think that a lot of people on the left and pundits have been wrong about how the court has respected precedent. we'll have to see. i will say i don't think the amicus briefs are going to influence this court. i think they will look at precedent and reach their decision. i would also note that i had voted for 6 of the 9 justices on the court including some of the most liberal ones as well as the more conservative ones. >> i know you care a great deal
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about this thing called the havana syndrome, which is a mysterious illness in cuba. more than 130 cases have been reported. hearing intense noise, nausea, vertigo, headaches. new cases in vienna just this month. who do you think is behind this? >> that's the question that we must get an answer to. and just recently the director of the cia has appointed a very well-qualified individual to lead the search for this mysterious direct energy weapon that is causing in some cases permanent traumatic brain inj injuries. i authored a bill with senators warner and rubio that passed the senate that will provide compensation for these individuals who believe it or not initially were having a hard time getting the care they needed. that is disgraceful. our bill has passed the senate
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unanimously. i hoped the house was going to pass it before going home this week and that is a great disappointment to me. >> all right. susan collins, senator from maine, republican. thank you so much for being here. we really, really appreciate it. >> thank you, jay. >> best of luck with the infrastructure negotiations. coming up, i'll talk to two of the most influential voices in the democratic party. don't go anywhere, we'll be back in literally 60 seconds. that's why we're keeping our tuition the same for all online and campus programs through the year 2022. - i knew snhu was the place for me when i saw how affordable it was, i ran to my husband with my computer and i said, "look, we can do this." - [narrator] take advantage of some of the lowest online tuition rates in the nation. find your degree at
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper. the senate hoping to wrap up a bipartisan deal this week. for democrats, that's the first step. they're going to turn to a $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. joining us now is one of the most power full democratic
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senators and a key negotiator on this infrastructure package, senator joe manchin. good to see you. >> in person. >> i haven't seen you in person in a long, long time. good to see you. so schumer says he wants to finish up this bipartisan deal in a matter of days. we haven't seen it yet. when do you think we will? >> today. >> today? >> today. i think you'll see text today and by this evening hopefully we can start our amendment process tomorrow. should finish up thursday. >> do you think it will pass? >> i do. i do. let me tell you, jake. when you see chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell voting for the same thing, it's unbelievable. >> yeah, that never happens. >> i will tell you this. senator schumer has been great on this allowing us to work this process bringing everybody, trying to get a bipartisan deal no matter what you might have heard. he's been working it hard. keeping us engaged. they keep telling us they're getting closer and closer. getting the text done. it's drafting. >> speaker pelosi says she's not
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going to hold a vote on the bill assuming it passes the senate until the much larger $3.5 million reconciliation. they say they should vote on the infrastructure bill as soon -- >> i will never give speaker pelosi on how she's running the place. i believe every bill should go up on their own merits. >> senator warren described them as really one big package. is that how you view it? >> i never did view it that way. i respect senator warren and everybody else who has a different perspective of this. the bottom line is for the last three decades, previous administrations have been trying to do a large infra truck stur bill. when you talk about roads, bridges, rails, trains, internet services, everything that goes with it, it's something that every state, every area of every state needs. this is something you should be getting 80 or 90 votes on. right now we're going to do great on that.
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i've always felt infrastructure is infrastructure. >> let's talk about the sweeping reconciliation bill. arizona senator who is one of the other moderates in the senate, she made headlines saying a $3.5 trillion bill is too big for her to support. i know you've said you're keeping an open mind. you've previously said you're concerned about the debt, inflation. suggested you could back $2 trillion. would you prefer this bill be smaller? >> let me just say this out of respect for all of my colleagues who worked so hard. i respect them, hopefully they respect us for what we're doing. the more moderate, conservative group with the democratic party. with that, they have to have a brent. we're $28.6 trillion in debt. and our debt goes up $4 billion a day. if you're sleeping, if it's the weekend, whatever, it goes up $4
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billion a day. someone should be concerned about getting their financial house in order. i'm worried about that. i'm worried about inflation. with that, we're going to pay for it. let's see the pay fors, if they're real. i didn't vote for 2017. i thought it was weighted to the wrong side. if we make adjustments will we go overboard and make ourselves non-competitive? i wouldn't be for that. >> politico reports when you brought up the federal deficit at the luncheon tuesday, you were booed. >> i heard a lot of nos. boo no, no boo. what it was was this. i said basically just what i told you, both of these bills should go up on its own merits. some of my colleagues, my friends who thought differently should be all one or one should go with the other, felt, no, that -- so i understand that. we had some good back and forth. they know who i am and they know where i come from and they know what i'm about. i've been after them. >> after you come on congresswoman alexandria owe
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case yes cortez is going to talk. a you are one of the leaders of the more conservative group. can you guarantee to aoc this will pass the senate? her concern is this might be bipartisan but it's scaled back so much it's not as bold as what it should be and what the country needs. can you guarantee her the reconciliation package will pass? >> i can't guarantee anybody. would we like to do more? yeah, you can do what you can pay for. our infrastructure bill is paid for. we don't have a debt that we're going to incur more debt and on the other as far as reconciliation bill, it should be looked at the same. we're going to get the budget resolution. let's start the process and see where it goes. on that, we should just work in good faith and make sure no one
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is led astray. how can you tell over 80% of the people democrats and republicans we can't do an infrastructure bill, traditional infrastructure. there is a lot of need out there for the human infrastructure, i understand. some of the programs they're putting in place could be in perpetuity. even though it only has a 10-year run. it's been scored at 10 years at 3.5. it might have perpetuity, 5 trade or more. we have to look at everything. >> senator amy klobuchar said you are very close to an agreement on voting rights legislation. one of the main questions has been what kind of national voter i.d. rules it will include or allow on the state level. what can you tell us about that and could we see that agreement this week? >> well, as i say, we all have a desire. first of all, the whole strong hold of our democracy, the bedrock of our democracy is an open, fair, and secured election. people have to know the basic at
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the end of the day when the count is made it's accurate. either you have won or i have won. however it's done, it's supposed to be an orderly transfer. under president trump we have not seen an orderly transfer. we have not seen an acceptance of basically the will of the people and that has made it difficult. when you have 41 million people believing joe biden is not duly elected which he was in a very fair and very secure system, we've got to make sure whatever we do we don't divide our country further. what's joe going to do, what's he for or against? i will not do anything, jake, to separate our country further. to do a major overhaul on voter and voting rights bill, take the voting rights back that we had in '65, use the john lewis, most decent human being, and make sure we stay within the guidelines of what we're supposed to. protect the elections not going into this expansive overhaul, if you will, to the point to where it will be overturned in court. we've been seeing the courts
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overturn some of this. >> i know you want it to be bipartisan. >> should be. >> but i don't know how possible that is. the only republican i've heard talk about this in a positive way is lisa murkowski of alaska. >> you know what i can't understand, how did they pass 98-0 in 2006 and now it's not possible for that to happen? >> i don't know, but is there any circumstance under which you could imagine allowing a carve out for the -- i know you oppose getting rid of the filibuster. there are some people in the more moderate camp like angus king of maine who's an independent who have said he's possibly willing to step back from the filibuster -- his opposition to getting rid of the filibuster just for voting rights because he's so concerned it's become so partisan. can you imagine ever doing that? >> jake, i can't imagine a carve out because i was here in 2013. we're just going to do a cabinet for the president and then we're going to do the judges and they
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were even going to do supreme court but they didn't at that time. the democrats were in control. 2017 mitch mcconnell's in control, comes right back in and guess what, that carveout worked to split us up. if we don't put this back in order. if you get rid of the filibuster which makes us work together, the brilliancy of our founding fathers was this, why in the world did they give two senators to rhode island and delaware at the time they were forming this great nation of ours when they told new york, pennsylvania, ohio to get two too? it makes us work together. minority participation. >> quick question for you before you leave, sir. >> sure. >> the house tried and failed to extend the cdc's eviction moratorium this week. they failed. millions of people are at risk of losing their homes. there is a desire to extend the
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moratorium. aoc can talk about this. they want to extend tens of billions of dollars sitting there for renters to pay their rents to go to landlords to pay the mortgages, et cetera. are you in favor of extending the moratorium. >> the money is there. why didn't it go out the door, i don't know. let's fix that and use the money for the purpose it was appropriated for. also, the economy has come back strong. everybody can get a vaccination. i hope they have. but still yet they're trying to get their feet back under them from a tough year. we understand all of that. we should be compassionate and help and we should use it. >> you would support extending the moratorium? >> it's not new money. it's not new debt. >> senator joe manchin from the great state of virginia. >> thanks, jake. the crisis that sent my next guest running to the house floor and staging a sit in last night, alexandria ocasio-cortez is here
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper. a rally at the capitol. demanding the house come back in session. some even spending the whole night on the steps in solidarity with those who may soon find themselves without a roof over their heads after the federal ban on rental evictions expired at midnight without a vote to extend it. congress has passed already billions of dollars to help renters during the pandemic. only a sliver of that money has been distributed leaving tenants and landlords in desperate straits. joining us to discuss,
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congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez who was at the rally. good to see you in person. >> of course. >> so you've been warning this eviction deadline was coming for weeks. >> yes. >> democrats control the house, you control the senate. noga gres sieve was done by leadership until a couple of days ago. who's to blame here? >> well, you know, i think there's a couple of issues here. first of all, you are absolutely correct in that the house and house leadership had the opportunity to vote to extend the moratorium. there was many, frankly a handful of conservative democrats in the house that threatened to get on planes rather than hold this vote. we have to really just call a spade a spade. we cannot in good faith blame the republican party when house democrats have majority. now there is something to be said for the fact that this court order came down on the white house a month ago and the white house waited until the day before the house adjourned to release a statement asking congress to extend a moratorium.
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this came for weeks. we had, you know, the house secretary there asking about the administration's stance. we asked the biden stras about their stance. they were not being forthright. the house was put into a needlessly difficult situation and it's not just me saying that, financial services chair woman maxine waters has made that very clear as well. there's a couple of contributing factors here. we have governors not getting this emergency rental assistance out in time which is forcing this extension. the fact of the matter is, the problem is here and the house should reconvene and there's 11 million people that are behind on their rent, at risk of eviction. that's one out of every six renters in the united states. >> congress is out of town for the next seven weeks. speaker pelosi made it clear
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she's not calling the house back. the senate's here because they have the infrastructure bill. and you heard manchin say he thinks the moratorium should be extended so these tens of billions of dollars should get out the door. what's your response? >> the house adjourned technically for seven weeks. i want to be very clear that due to the ongoing negotiations with the bipartisan infrastructure bill, we were given very specific instructions that we are set to adjourn for seven weeks but every member of the house of representatives is currently on a 24-hour call back notice in anticipation of that bipartisan infrastructure bill. so we all have left town with plans to come back within 24 hours if necessary and i believe that the expiration of the eviction moratorium and having 11 million americans, 1 out of every 6 rent skbrers at risk of being kicked out of their home is worth coming back and triggering that 24-hour notice. we cannot leave town without doing our job. >> can you explain to the
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american people why it is that these tens of billions of dollars that congress has already passed to help renters and also, you know, we shouldn't depict, and you're not, landlords, some of them are small business people, they need the money, too so they can survive. >> absolutely. >> these are not all jared kushner slumlord types. why can't the money get out the door. >> this was handed over by congress and the federal government to states and local municipalities to dole out. what that means is each individual governor is responsible for establishing these programs. i think that in some states governors and state administrations might be slow walking this process to get it out. in other states the administrative burden of setting it up. but there are states and municipalities that have been getting it right and we are at a point where frankly those state governments need to get it together but we cannot kick people out of their homes when our end of the bargain has not been fulfilled.
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out of the 46 billion that has been allocated, only 3 billion has gone out to help renters and small mom and pop landlords. >> it's crazy. you just heard joe manchin a few moments ago talk about the reconciliation bill, $3.5 trillion. he said he can't give him any guarantee it would pass the senate. what's your response to that? >> these deals on infrastructure that have gone out are not just bipartisan but they were bicameral. >> that means house and senate? >> yes. it was made very clear at the beginning of this process that this bipartisan deal, if it even survives the senate, the only chance that it has at passing the house is if the house passes the senate bill and if the senate passes the house bill, with i is largely in reconciliation. so we can't just have one body driving the entire legislative agenda for the country and, frankly, 20 senators that -- within that one body. so we need a reconciliation bill
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if this bipartisan bill -- if we want this bipartisan bill to pass. >> i know the infrastructure deal they're talking about, manchin said they're going to introduce it today, bring up the language, is smaller than you wanted and your fellow progressives wanted. it includes funding for electric vehicle charging stations, clean water, broadband. when it comes before the house as it looks like will happen, will you vote for it? >> we have to hold on to that bargain. if there is not a reconciliation bill in the house and if the senate does not pass a reconciliation bill, we will uphold our end of the bargain and not pass the bipartisan bill until we get all of these investments in. i want to be clear, they're not all, you know, candyland. there are some of these quote, unquote pay fors that are very alarming that we need to see the language on. for example, some of the language around privatizing public infrastructure, toll roads, leasing public
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infrastructure to private entities are very concerning and should be concerning to every american. we really need to see that language and see what's put in there until it reaches -- you know, when it reaches the house. bipartisan doesn't always mean that it's in the interests of the public good, frankly. sometimes there's a lot of corporate lobbyist give aways in these bills. >> when it comes to the infrastructure package, you disagree with your fellow democrat congresswoman alyssa slotkin. strike while the iron is hot. if you get money, don't let it sit. it does not age well. you disagree? >> we have a deal and the deal is reconciliation for the bipartisan infrastructure. >> you made your point. you have called out arizona senator kirs sinema. you wrote good luck tanking your own party's investment on child care, climate while presuming you'll survive a three-vote house margin.
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>> yeah. i mean, that's the thing. this is the deal and we have a tight margin in the senate. i respect that we have to get senator, you know, sinema and manchin's vote on reconciliation. they should respect there's a tight house margin and we have to uphold our end of the bargain as well. >> how many house progressives do you think are with you on that? >> i believe a very large amount of the progressive caucus. the total amount is about 90. you know, i am not the whip of the progressive caucus but what i can tell you is it's certainly more than three and it is in the double digits absolutely. >> enough to prevent it from passing? >> more than enough. >> president biden and other administration officials have signaled they believe the democrats can out organize republicans even though republicans are passing all these measures, that generally speaking make it more difficult to vote and generally speaking a lot of the impetus for this is the big lie, that the election was stolen.
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you're an organizer. former organizer. is that a realistic strategy, what president biden is saying? that the democrats can out organize republicans on this? >> no. i appreciate the white house's optimism, but i believe it verges on naivite. it already took unprecedented historic organizing to overcome the voter suppression efforts in 2020 and we barely squeeked through on the majority and white house election we have. beyond that, even if we are successful in quote, unquote out organizing voter suppression, which is a ridiculous premise on its face, republicans are already laying the groundwork in installing state-level attorney generals and beyond to overturn the results of any state election that they frankly do not like in states where they have taken power. and so even if you are successful in out organizing, they're laying the groundwork to not even certify the results of the election.
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they are holding essentially dress rehearse alls in states like arizona in order to do that. and i think we should be extremely alarmed and it will -- we are setting it up to happen unless we pass very strong voter provisions against gerrymandering, voter protection rights not just in hr 4 but we need the retroactive provisions of hr 1. >> thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. worrying news about the delta variant as local leaders urge the unvaccinated to get their shots. ohio governor mike dewine on trying to get members of his own party to get vaccinated. that's next. (piano playing) here we go. ♪ [john legend's i can see clearly now]
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>> that has millions of americans determined not to get their covid shots which makes the government having to face a big challenge. the delta variant is on track to be the big stream in ohio. states are climbing again. less than half your state is vaccinated. in fact, ohio is one of the
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least vaccinated. do you anticipate you'll bring back any health mandates, capacity restrictions, mask mandates for businesses? >> if you look at 12 and above which we think is a better measurement at about 50%. we certainly have room to grow. we're seeing the virus grow up. we think the delta variant is certainly the dominant one in ohio yet. but the whole game today is vaccinations. and we have room to grow. we think we can continue to get more people vaccinated. let me just give you a couple of examples. if you look at where we've seen an increase in vaccination, we have had a significant increase in vaccination in the last week or so. i think it's the fear of the delta variant is certainly one of the causes. where we've seen the biggest increase is in our most
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unvaccinated rural counties. so people making those decisions out there based upon what they're seeing and counting and hearing on the news, we have also started a program to really focus on medicaid members. when we started in january, you know, we really focused on medicaid members who were in nursing homes and had very, very good success. but what we saw was that the rest of the medicaid population was really undervaccinated compared to the general population. so we have started a few weeks ago the incentive, it's $100 to help people who are on medicaid. some of them are fearful, frankly, of being off work, some are fearful of some side effects. we're also working with our pharmacies. i had a call this week with walgreen's, cvs, all the pharmacies in the state and asked them to also initiate a
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program of help, counseling when people come in. so we've seen a pretty significant increase now in people on medicaid, members of medicaid who are, in fact, unvaccinated. we also are looking, jake, at something that columbus health department has done. i talked with mayor ginther about this yesterday. we think it's probably a model that we can take statewide, and that is what they have done, we now can give them census track data. our state health department can give every health department a state census track data, so they can look exactly where they're unvaccinated, what neighborhoods. so they've started an incentive program there, $100 incentive, but not just the $100, everything they're doing, they're putting it in very familiar places. they might put it in a grocery store, they might put it in a church, and they do it on a
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regular recurring basis. that combination of things seems to have worked very well, and we're looking at doing that to expand it. so the game -- i guess my summary is the game is still with getting people vaccinated. we have room to grow, and we think we have some ways to help people get to that point. >> so no plans right now to bring back mandates like capacity restrictions or distancing requirements of businesses, a complete full-scale, full-court press on vaccinations. >> i'll tell you what we have done. we came out last week with recommendations. they are recommendations. we leave it up to the schools. 600-some local schools, we leave it up to them, but we have a strong recommendation that because the population in school, kids in school, most of them are unvaccinated. obviously we can't get anybody 11 and under vaccinated yet. so most of these kids are unvaccinated. we had great success last winter, last school year. we saw virtually no spread in
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the classroom with all of the kids were wearing masks. so we recommend a strong recommendation to our schools that they do that. some will do that, some will not. but it's clear the evidence shows that that's a way to really slow down spread in the school, and we think it's very important. >> let me ask you, you held the first vaccine lottery in the country a few months ago, giving away college scholarships to encourage vaccinations. your governor said he continues lotteries as a waste of tax dollars, and he won't include one in florida which has an explosion of cases. clearly you don't agree with that. how many lives do you think you saved with the lottery program? >> first of all, look, every governor has to make their own decision. they know their own community, so i'm not going to quarrel with
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what governor desantis is doing or not doing. here's what happened in ohio. we were going straight down every week in the number of people vaccinated. when we announced that, we saw it go straight up. and we had, jake, two really, really solid, good weeks. a lot of people who were going to get vaccinated, sometime later, we had one mom, for example, who told fran and told me, i was going to get my son vaccinated right before school because you came out with this, and the scholarship was available. i got him vaccinated right away. it turned out he actually won. so we think well over 100,000 extra people were vaccinated at a minimum because of that who either would not have been vaccinated or who would have delayed vaccinations. so it was very, very successful. it was something that worked, and we're glad we did it.
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>> all right. ohio governor mark dewine, thank you very much for your time today. we really appreciate it. best of luck in ohio. thank you for spending your morning with us. the news continues next. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we'll begin today's show with two nobel laureates in economics. first up, krugman of the "new york times" on just how much damage the delta variant will do to the u.s. economy as it throws back-to-work plans up in the air. what will it do to the rest of the world? then richard thaler on how to nudge the vaccine hesitant, to go ahead and get the shots. he literally wrote the book on it. he's theo-


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