tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN August 12, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
challenge. they usually decline in the hot su summer months, but that's not what we've seen. so what is the united states doing about it? that's a crucial question. clearly more needs to be done. customs says they are in part resuming fast track deportation procedures for migrant families and setting up flights to send people to other border areas for processing. thanks for watching. anderson starts now. good evening. with tomorrow shaping up to be a big day in the fight against covid, especially the prospect of a decision on additional vaccine doses for those who might need them, i'm joined shortly by dr. fauci. we begin with a rapidly deteriorating situation in afghanistan. president biden's decision to end 20 year of military presence there. today as the third largest city fell to the taliban, the pentagon on the president's instructions ordered troops to
kabul airport. the marine and army forces, about 3,000 in total, will be tasked with what the pentagon spokesman calls a quote, reduction of civilian personnel at the embassy. the those old enough, this might bring back the american departure in 1975 with helicopters on the saigon embassy rooftop. listen to ned price saying this is neither an escalation nor a retreat nor any kind of signal to the taliban. >> this is not about reengaging militarily in conflict in afghanistan. this is not abandonment. this is not an evacuation. this is not the wholesale withdrawal. what this is is a reduction in the size of our civilian footprint so this shouldn't be read as any sort of message to the taliban. >> whatever it is, however you want to describe it, the
american pullout appears to be accelerating from a country if not on the brink of collapse, it's certainly falling. cl clarissa ward is on the ground in kabul. what's the latest you can tell us about the plans the u.s. government has put into motion about the american embassy? >> the situation is really going from bad to worse. 12 provincial capitals now under the control of the taliban. among them, harat, the third largest city in the country. also, kandahar appears to be on the brink of falling. this would be a huge one. it's a strategically important city. also the birthplace of the taliban, so it has a lot of symbolism behind it. because they're seeing how quickly things are unraveling, the u.s. state department and pentagon now saying they're going to be sending 3,000 u.s. troops in the next 24 to 48 hours. their mission is to simply help the withdrawal of u.s. embassy
personnel. the state department was trying to underscore this is not an evacuation. the embassy is remaining open. this is about enduring partnership still with afghanistan, but on the ground, people see this as an evacuation and as such, it's really contributing to this growing sense of panic as the situation deteriorates. >> my understanding is there's about, and correct me if i'm wrong, about 3 or 4,000 people who work at the american embassy in kabul. how many of those are americans? how many are afghans and would the afghans be evacuated as well? >> well, that's the million dollar question and it's a question that was being hedged a lot. they weren't giving any sense of the numbers and beyond the people working in the embassy, anderson, there's also the tens of thousands of people who have worked with the embassy in some capacity. who have worked with the u.s. military in some capacity. the scores of translators, logistics operators.
they did say that 1200 or so have been able to get out of afghanistan with their family, but as i said, tens of thousands still here meiered in paperwork not knowing if they will get their families out to safety. >> the idea of kandahar being taken over is stunning. it was a major point of operations for the united states. i mean, i remember the base there. helmand province was hard fought by u.s. marines for a long time. this is just stunning. what is the likelihood of kabul itself falling? >> so at the moment, the situation in kabul feels at least potentially pretty calm and stable but there's an eerie since that could change at any moment. >> there's reporting from "the new york times" that the u.s. enjoy has been trying to get taliban leaders to agree not to attack the american embassy, when or if their fighters reach
kabul. what leverage does the u.s. really have to get them to agree to that and would any kind of agreement really hold up? >> so the main leverage that the u.s. has right now at the negotiating table with you know, the taliban in doha is air strikes. well, we've seen that's got limited impact, ultimately. but they also have the leverage of becoming an international pariah. you want the international community to accept you with all the funding that that could possibly entail. and i do think that holds some appeal to the taliban. however, does it hold enough appeal to extract major concessions and compromises from the taliban when at this point in time, they feel they're very much in the driver's seat. they are winning. and as long as they can believe, as long as they believe that they can win this militarily without making huge concessions, it's unlikely that they'll do that. at the same time, the taliban wants to see u.s. forces go.
and so if it needs to make promises to, you know, protect or not to attack these u.s. embassy personnel as they leave or u.s. military personnel who might be facilitating that extraction, then i think it's likely that they might agree to something like that, anderson. >> appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. let's get perspective from a diplomat that knows better than almost anyone. ryan crocker has served as ambassador to iraq, afghanistan, and syria. first of all, your reaction to the u.s. sending in these 3,000 troops to help the evacuations in the embassy potentially being relocated. you had reopened the embassy in kabul. this has got to be difficult to imagine. >> given the circumstances, i think the administration is doing the right thing. not to, not to delay this. to move in a force sufficient to hold the airport at the embassy
and possibly some roots. that's, that is what we are reduced to now. and it is very sad to hear that the, that our envoys to the taliban are now pleading with them not to shoot at us as we retreat. when you think how this started, a peace agreement we somehow brokered welcomed a reality. the reality is this. the evacuation, and it is an evacuation, of a number of u.s. personnel, but also a number of afghans. i honestly don't know how they're going to do that with embassy afghan staff and especially with interpreters and others who risk our lives to help us. how are we going to get them out? >> you're talking about tens of thousands of afghans who have had close relationships with the u.s. in this time. obviously this country, you know, sadly in vietnam, we saw this. we've seen this elsewhere in
iraq. has a history -- behind. what do you attribute just the speed of the collapse of the afghan army, which is, you know, i mean, from the first time i ever got there in 2002, that was the priority. the americans were saying, you know, we are, we're standing up the afghan army. we're pouring resources into it. how many green berets special forces were there. what do you account for their failure and the taliban success? >> anderson, my view, we bear a major responsibility for this. began under president trump when he authorized negotiations between the u.s. and the taliban without the afghan government in the room. that was a key taliban demand.
we exceeded to it and it was a huge demoralizing factor for the afghan government and its security forces. we pressed them to release 5,000 taliban prisoners. eventually they did it and watched them go back into the fight against the people who released them. so this is a year and a half worth of demoralization and now this abrupt withdrawal on our part i think solidifies it. so it's like any complex phenomenon. there are a number of reasons for the collapse i think of the afghan forces, but we cannot ignore we had a central role in delegitimizing them and their government. >> i mean, four years ago, would this same result have happened though? three years before that decision was made? because it seems like there was an awful lot poured into this. it's hard to believe that just a recent demoralization, it seems
like a pretty inherent, intrinsic lack of confidence among afghan forces in the state itself. >> we were a major backer of the state and of the security forces. symbolism counts. and the symbol of the u.s. military affecting a complete and final withdrawal was devastating and again, it didn't happen overnight. this demoralization process, if you will, began the first day we sat down with the taliban and excluded the afghan government. >> what happens to, can kabul itself just hold on as, you know, we have seen afghan fragment in the past. obviously i know the central government is reaching out to the warlords trying to get them to kind of join in this fight and if the national army itself is not doing it, are there going
to be pockets like sharif in the past in kabul? >> i think it's an important point, anderson. the taliban has made enormous gains on the ground but how many of them are there? how far can they go? because it's one thing to take territory. it's another thing to hold it. and i would guess they're probably pretty close to being a full stretch right now in terms of their capacity. again, i don't have any insight or information on this, but taking is one thing and holding is something else. so i think with the afghans in defense of kabul, it might cause this process to bog down a bit. not sure that's a good thing because what does that mean? basically mean a civil war as does ghani's appeal to the
militias of the former northern alliance. we kind of saw this in iraq after the islamic state swept through, what was it, five years ago now? so here it is again, the afghan version. >> it's so fascinating how history repeats itself to see what's happening in realtime. ambassador crocker, i appreciate you being with us. thank you so much. >> thank you. up next, dr. anthony fauci joins us on what could be the eve of additional vaccines for americans and later, mike lindel who claimed to present evidence that the election was hacked and stolen from the former president, he invited us and experts to keep him honest. see what happens when we took him up on it. something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee...
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dose drops from 60 to 50. more than 700,000 israelis have gotten shots. meantime, the cdc's advisory committee is scheduled to vote tomorrow on additional vaccine doses for the immune o compromised. we're joined by dr. anthony fauci. is israel ahead of us just when it comes to data collection? i know they've been able to collect reams of data because of the deal they made with pfizer. why do they feel confident in the science to offer booster doses to people over the age of 50? >> well, anderson, based on the data from the utilization and implementation of their vaccine program, they're seeing a significant diminution in the durability of protection. they see that more among the elderly than they do among younger. so they made a decision to do that. we in this country are collecting data from multiple
cohorts. both domestic and international. domestic cohorts are being followed on a daily and weekly basis by the cdc. we are assuming that sooner or later, we're going to have to give boosters so what we're doing right now, the decision is we don't need to do it right now. it's not imminent. but we're preparing as if it will be imminent. so we're going to be ready to do it whenever the data shows that the protection is gone below a certain level because a combination of the durability of protection and the special effect you're seeing with the delta variant. that is very -- who never really ever got as a group an adequate response to protect them. so it isn't as if they have a durability problem. it's if they never really had an adequate response and that's the
reason the decision was made to give it to them and we'll be hearing more details about it as you just said, when the advisory committee talks about this tomorrow at their meeting. >> so how would it work if there is going to be a third booster shot for everybody at some point? will there be, will that be done through doctor's offices and pharmacies as the vaccine has kind of been given now? will they be reopening kind of larger locations? >> well, you know, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but if you say let's assume that this occurs that we're making a decision to do this, it would have to be in an orderly fashion. so you would not want to say, okay, now everybody's going to go getting a third boost. it will be an orderly fashion in a timely way. i think it's going to be through the same outlets, anderson, that we did before. namely through pharmacies, et cetera. sometimes through doctors
offices and other ways that we very successfully have done it before. >> do you think there's harm in getting a booster dose right now? i mean, can people do that? oversee the one-dose johnson & johnson vaccine, why not let people who want a booster here in the u.s. receive one? >> well, people can do what they want to do and some people are already doing that. we know that. but you want to do something that's based on some scientific evidence. something that gives you scientific and public health direction. something that you can follow the success of it and find out what you need to do down the pipe as time goes on. i mean obviously anyone can decide they just want to do it, but i think when you look at the science of it and the immunology, you want to do it in a way that's really based on the science that you're observing through these cohorts. >> there's obviously a lot we don't know. we know a lot more than we did to start, but there's obviously, you know, we need to be humble in the face of this virus as
we've seen repeatedly. if there's going to be a booster, does that mean then that people will be set for, do we know what length of time, before they would need to, you know, think about getting vaccinated again? because i assume if this is around for years and years, this is going to be the kind of thing we have to routinely get vaccinated for, just like getting a flu shot. >> well, there are a lot of factors that are going to go into that type of decision. the first thing is that we feel in studies that we've done, we've already done studies where we've taken boosters to be given to people who have been fully vaccinated and the good news about that is that the acceleration of the response goes way up. i mean even better than what you get with the two doses together. in other words, it goes up and up and then if you give a boost, it goes way up. that may mean, i don't know for certain, but that could mean
that you induce a response that's high enough and durable enough that you may not have to worry about what people are concerned about needing a so-called boost every year or so. i would hope that the degree of elevation of response that we will see with the boost might actually give us a lot of wiggle room of not necessarily needing a boost often. but i have to be -- as you say, we are humble and we are modest about it. we don't know the answer to that. and the only way you do that is you continue to do the clinical studies and the observational studies. as you said, this is a virus that has evolved. we went from a virus, the alpha variant, that when you got infected, the level of virus in your nasal pharnyx is a thousand times more. it's about more than serious disease leading to
hospitalization, but there's the issue of prevention of transmissibility among people who might have a breakthrough infection, as unusual as that is. it has occurred and will occur because vaccines are not 100% protective. the thing that we're seeing with delta is that when you do get a breakthrough infection of someone who is vaccinated and gets infected, even if they have minimal or no symptoms, the level of virus is still quite high. enough to do what we've documented and seen that they could transmit it. so there are a couple of things you want to separate. protection against severe disease, which the vaccines do really, really well. they're holding up very well against delta versus protection against getting infected to the point where you may then transmit it. and that's the thing that sometimes confuses people. understandably so. >> but i read an article in the atlantic today that kind of
clarified it for me. i wish i had the author's name off the top of my head. one of the things he was saying which just sort of clarified things for me in my own mind because i've started wearing a mask indoors and i'm very concerned about my child. is that if you have been fully vaccinated, you're less likely to get obviously the delta variant than you would be if you were unvaccinated. you are also less likely to transmit whatever you have to somebody else than if you were unvaccinated. the unvaccinated are more likely to transmit, correct? >> correct. totally correct. >> the other thing this author says, which again, that reframed this in my mind, he made the point of you may, the vaccine isn't about, you know, guaranteeing you don't get the virus, but it means that the virus itself doesn't have to become covid-19 inside you. that essentially you may get infected but it's not covid-19
in the sense of a life threatening potentially deadly -- >> exactly. >> disease. so it's breaking, it's separating the virus from the illness, covid-19. is that right? >> and that's what -- you're totally correct, anderson. that's what i just said. you've got to make sure that people understand the difference of a virus is -- a vaccine is really doing what you want it to do if it protects you from getting ill. seriously ill to go to the hospital. if you just give me 30 seconds, i'll explain with you and your child. you're vaccinated. you're fully vaccinated. the chances of you're getting infected at all is very low, but let's say you do get infected and you don't get any symptoms, but you do have enough virus that you may then inadvertently and innocently infect someone else. could be your child. so how do you prevent that? you prevent it that when you go
out to a place that's a public, indoor place, you wear a mask. people say, why do i have to wear a mask if i'm vaccinated? because you want to go the extra mile to prevent you from getting a sub clinical infection that you might then inadvertently pass to someone else. you don't have to worry about getting seriously ill. the vaccine is going to protect you against that, but it may not protect you against getting infected to the point where you may transmit it to someone else. >> i know we're out of time, long covid. what do we know about the possibility of somebody who has been vaccinated gets infected, developing long covid symptoms and also children who can't be vaccinated under the age of 12, do we know about what kind of, do they get long covid from delta? or can they? >> all right. two questions. yeah. yeah. two questions, separate answers. certainly if you get vaccinated and you get a breakthrough
infection, you can get long covid. we don't have enough data in that to say if it's the same kind of risk of getting long covid of others. but it is likely it would be less because you got a good deal of protection from your vaccine. children can get long covid. but the incidence of it is significantly lower than an adult. it's just a few percent of children whereas with the adult, it's anywhere from ten to up to 30%. >> dr. anthony fauci, i appreciate it. thanks for what you're doing. >> good to be with you. thank you, anderson. >> things are so dire in texas, they're putting up tents outside hospitals because they're running out of capacity at some. the latest from a reporter on the ground and a key player in texas in a feud over mask mandates. next.
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more than a year and a half, our heroes are overwhelmed, particularly in texas where few beds were left. some of the hospitals have set up tents to triage patients. and the tragedy is that we have the vaccine to prevent scenes like this. >> on sunday in the small sunday of cliffton, texas, 69-year-old gordon robinson walked into good old witcher hospital sickened by covid-19. the moment triggered a heart pounding race to save his life. for the chief nursing officer and her nursing team. >> this patient needed to go from our rural facility into a higher level of care so we got
on the phone and we called. i put together a notebook and in this notebook, this is every hospital that i will begin to call. every hospital that you see on here are hospitals that we have called trying to find a bed for a patient. >> mccabe started dialing number after number. 50 different hospitals a day with the same answer. no beds available. calls to hospitals in louisiana, oklahoma, new mexico. nothing. robinson was getting worse by the day, she says. >> the clock is ticking. >> and if you can't find a bedfas bed fast enough, it has to weigh on you. >> tremendously. yeah. >> this is the real life daily battle for medical teams on the front lines as texas smashes into a wall of surging cases. adam is the ceo of the cliffton
hospital. he says the positive infection rate in his hospital tests has jumped from 4% a month ago to 35% and he's struggling to find nurses to handle all the patients. his team is exhausted. >> i think we're headed to a very bad situation and it's going pretty rapidly. >> it has to be exhausting. >> once you get behind, go to the nurse's floor and you look at them in the eyes, you can see that it's stressful. you can see it. you can feel it. >> but this pandemic crisis is once again clouded by the fight over mask wearing and vaccine acceptance. 45% of the texas population is fully vaccinated and almost all of the newest cases are among the unvaccinated. school superintendents and county officials in the biggest cities across texas are mandating masks despite the governor's orders. republican state leaders are vowing to fight the mandates in court. >> you're 43 years old, we're
doing this interview and you still have the wear the oxygen? >> i'm like, wow, i can't believe i'm like this at my age. it's shocking. >> he was unvaccinated and got sick last month. he spent two weeks in the hospital and felt like he was moments from dying but the memory he can't erase was the sound of the patient next to him in the covid icu wing. >> he was screaming for water. fighting with the nurses. he was covid positive. every night, he was screaming. it was scary to be like this. i thought i was going to be just like him. >> he said that's what it's like being inside a hospital right now. after four days of endless phone calls, mccabe finally found and icu bed for gordon robinson, he was now on a ventilator, put on a small plane and flown to albuquerque, new mexico. so the moment you were told, yes, we have this bed in --
>> i started crying. >> and anderson, the story of how she found that bed is like a texas version of six degrees of separation from kevin bacon. her husband is a cowboy in the rodeo world so through a friend of a friend of a friend, they were able to get a phone number to a possible lead on a bed in new mexico. she called that and that's what led them to that bed in new mexico. she says that is what hospital administrators and nurses are going through all over the state right now. trying to make these little small miracles happen. i spoke with robinson's wife and she says that he is still on the ventilator and that they are sitting and praying for his recovery. >> we wish gordon robinson's family the best and for him, we hope he recovers. god bless the hospital administrators and the nurses and the doctors. we need to do better by them. you could see the personal, you know, she was on the verge of tears talking about trying, you know, working that phone to try
to get this man who she doesn't know. just somebody who came into the hospital, but she's, you know, for her, it's very personal and we need to do better by folks who are doing this. thank you, i really appreciate it. some big cities in texas are in open revolt against governor abbott as orders barring mask mandates. joining the growing list of counties against abbott and a harris county judge tonight has ordered a mask mandate for all county schools and childcare centers. i want to bring in a political voice. b beto o'rourke joins us. how do you square governor abbott deploying additional workers to hospitals, which is needed, but at the same time, fighting in courts against a mask mandate? >> it's interesting. he's issued a mandate as the governor of the state of texas, preventing local jurisdictions like school districts or cities or texas counties from issuing
their own mandates to protect the public health by requiring masks. what's interesting, also, is that those local jurisdictions in many cases are taking matters into their own hands and have defied the governor. in some cases, getting court injunctions to stay his mandate so that they can require masks. we are seeing the houston independent school district do that. travis county, which is home to austin, texas. dallas county. down in san antonio. so this is the rise of local leadership in the absence of statewide leadership. i hope sooner rather than later that the governor will see the wisdom of this local leadership and follow suit. and allow local jurisdictions to require masks where it's going to help those who are most vulnerable including kids. anderson, there are no more pediatric icu beds in north texas. so that means kids in fort
worth, dallas, denton, plano, frisco, if they get covid and are god forbid, sick enough they have to go to the hospital, there will not be a bed for them. this is a crisis and we need to governor to treat it as such. >> a number of those counties have sought legal recourse against the governor's banning of the mask mandates. where do you see on the legal front, do you see that happening? do you think that will happen increasingly? >> i do. one school board after another right now across texas is voting on this issue and it's really personal for a lot of us. amy and i have a 10-year-old son in the el paso independent school district. he's too young to get vaccinated. we send him to school with a mask. there's no requirement for other kids to wear masks. teachers or staff at the school putting all kids at risk and some of his classmates have already gotten sick, but because of the governor's mandate, you
know, they don't have to inform the parents necessarily. they don't have to do any kind of contact tracing. they don't have to protect the public health, which i think is the fundamental, or at least one of the fundamental reasons you have government in the first place. so i hope those local jurisdictions including my own will continue to stand up against the governor and for the lives of those kids who are in their trust and that ultimately, de facto, you will have a statewide response to the governor's mandate that will force the court to either acknowledge it or the governor to change course. >> you've been tweeting out sometimes at school board meetings throughout texas. we've seen a number of those meetings become very contentious. it says a lot about where we are in this debate right now, that you have parents screaming at doctors who are just simply testifying about the science on
wearing masks in schools. >> you know, when you hear from parents about their children being admitted to hospitals. when you see videos of kids hooked up to ventilator s, as a parent, that's about all you need to hear and see in order to understand the wisdom of wearing masks and to ensure that those who are old enough to receive a vaccine actually get one and then to ask those who are in positions of public trust to follow the science and the best public health guidance. and that's what we lack at a statewide level right now. in texas, but thank god for the courageous school board trustees who regardless of how popular or unpopular a mask requirement might be in their schools, are one by one beginning to require that. unfortunately, that's what we have to count on right now instead of what would be the most effective and efficient
solution is for the governor to stand up and do the right thing for the people of texas. >> i really appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. just ahead, there's breaking news. supreme court justice amy coney barrett weighs in on mask mandates. details when we continue. finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting.
there's breaking news tonight on a supreme court decision that may have a big impact on the legality of vaccine mandates across the nation as well as the military. amy coney barrett has declined a request to block a mandate. that means the school can require students to be vaccinated. justice barrett acted alone without referring the manner to the full court. i want to get analysis from jeffrey toobin. so how big a deal is this move by justice barrett?
>> well, it's a big deal because it leaves in place an order that i think most people recognize is something that is routine in american life. courts and communities have required vaccines for schools for decades in this country. it would have been a big shock if justice barrett had done something else but the fact that, you know, a conservative justice didn't even think it was worth referring it to the full court suggests that this issue at least is pretty uncontroversial. >> so this could impact future lawsuits against vaccine mandates because we're seeing more and more across the country. whether it's california or the pentagon with active duty troops. >> that's right. and i think that issue at least is probably going to be pretty uncontroversial. vaccine mandates by a university, by a state, by the military, i don't think is going
to be difficult for the courts to uphold. the really tricky issue is the one that's heading up the road, which is what happens, and it's already starting to happen, what happens when a state bans a vaccine mandate or bans a mask mandate in a locality as congressman o'rourke was just talking about. what happens when a locality says we want one. that conflict, that's a much tougher issue and i think that's the big fight that's going to be going on for months now. >> would that potentially end up in the supreme court? >> it might, although many of those issues will be resolved under state law. there are lots of state rules about you know, what localities are allowed to do and what is the province of a state. those are usually decided under state law. they probably would not wind up before the supreme court but some sort of mandate issue may well wind up before the supreme court and the fact that justice
barrett, you know, who is a conservative, you know, didn't rebel at this mandate is at least one sign in the win that this issue is something that even conservative justices may have some sympathy for. >> so this is a stupid question and i should know this, but can you explain that how is it she can just decide to not refer to the whole court? because we heard in the past about supreme court just saying we're not going to take this up. is that what this is? it's up to one of the justices to decide? >> right. on emergency appeals, the court, each justice is responsible for one or two circuits. one or two areas of the country. indiana, and it tends to be where the justice is from. justice barrett was a professor at notre dame, south bend, indiana. she's responsible for the seventh circuit where indiana is
located. so any emergency cases from indiana go to her. it's then her choice whether she decides to refer it to the full court. if she thinks that the issue is genuinely controversial, she could refer to the full court. now the losing side here has the right to go to the full court but if a justice didn't think it's legitimate, it's a big enough issue or controversial enough to even refer it to the full court, it means that the losing party has virtually no shot. these are only applied to emergency applications. this is an emergency case because, you know, indiana university, like most universities is about to start, so that's why this case work ld t that way. it's not that justice barrett reached out for this case. it's that she covers indiana. >> i knew you would have the answer. thank you. i should have known that. coming up next, my pillow's mike
lindell promised proof of a baseless election fraud conspiracy. instead what a live audience witnessed was an epic face plant. not for the first time. donny o'sullivan who spoke at this event joins us. ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ it's a new dawn... ♪ if you've been taking copd sitting down, it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing,
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conspiracy theorist lindley swore he had proof of a stolen election involving the chinese and hackers. he was going to present at true believers. on wednesday a judge ruled against him and others worth billions potentially could move forward. in other words a good day to show this proof to the world. instead, no surprise, it all came apart in front of a live audience. tony o'sullivan was there. >> we got attacked by china, and they flipped this election and down tick us to the tune of millions. this is crazy. and all you have to do is come to the symposium. >> for weeks, my pillow ceo lindley has been touting his so-called cyber symposium in sioux falls, south dakota, claiming he would present data that china hacked the 2020 election and stole it from donald trump. >> if you're correct, if you have that evidence -- >> no. just federal court about the evidence. if i'm right that china took our
country right now, do you care? would that bother you. >> you have to show the proof for it. >> would that back and forth you? >> of course it would. >> why do you think i keep going. >> reporter:?" >> reporter: we went along and brought harry hursty, a world renowned cyber and voting machines expert. if you see something in there, if you see some data that does seem legitimate, that does show that there was some sort of fraud, you're ready to invest it, right? >> absolutely. i will follow the evidence wherever the evidence will go. >> this was attacked. the whole technology was attacked. >> reporter: so -- on his website he's claiming without any evidence that it's because of an attack, that his systems have been attacked. >> there's cyberattacks every
day, as you can see. >> reporter: and it went downhill from there. lindell ultimately didn't produce the data to prove his claim the election was stolen by china. >> i think the guy makes a wonderful pillow, but i wish some of this information would have been organized a little better. >> reporter: were you given any data at all from the 2020 election? anything useful? anything that would show any sort of fraud? >> we were not given any kind of raw data which would even be able to. >> reporter: if the data is legit, wouldn't be it better to hand it over to experts? >> i've been told they can corrupt it and make fake stuff and put fake news out. so i don't need your people to go out and doctor the evidence and put out lindley is a conspiracy theorist. you can't sit here and do a hit
piece when it's on screen right now. >> reporter: to your knowledge, was anything on the screens proof of lindell e's claims tha the election was stolen? >> based on everything we found, there is nothing even compared to draw any conclusions. >> ladies and gentlemen, i'm not a computer guy. i don't know what most of this stuff means. but i've been researching this election since november 3rd. but the cnns of the colder, you need to start reporting this and stop fact-checking it. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: in case you needed more proof this is a sham, rand watkins spoke at the conference for hours. he was allegedly behind the qanon movement according to an hbo documentary, an allegation he denies. >> do you understand? all i need is for all those experts to say, yep, it's from the 2020 election. >> reporter: that's not proving the election was rigged, though,
right? >> we're bringing the supreme court. i don't need the media driving the narrative. >> reporter: we expected a huge pile of data which we wouldn't be able to understand and how it can be evidence. we didn't expect there's no pile of anything. >> reporter: there's not even a pile of bull shit here? >> just a pile of nothing. >> reporter: but plenty of promises for pillows and other products. >> bath robes, slippers, pajamas, bath mats, so go look at what you like. there's so much q stuff. >> oh, donie. where does dear lindley go from here? >> well, he's still got a lot of pillows to sell, anderson, so he's still that going for him. look, as you saw there, this event was so farcical, bizarre, wacky, it is laughable. >> it looked hot in there.
he was sweating a lot. were those slot machines pushed to the side somewhere? >> i was trying to figure out if the slot machines were also rigged. i was trying to get the cyber experts to tell us something about that. >> who were the people in the audience? i'm fascinated they were disappointed? >> yeah. i mean, and here's the thing. even the biggest supporters of lindell, even the biggest believers in the big lie who really wanted this to all come true this week -- i mean, lindell has been talking about this for months, for weeks, even they were disappointed that lindell couldn't even show, you know, even a shred of evidence to support these claims that he has been pushing for so long. does it mean it's going to go away, not as we know with the big lie. lindell will be back i'm sure tomorrow with some other bright idea. >> i still don't know if he's still suing me. he was suing me for a while. donie o'sullivan, appreciate it. the cdc advisory panel prepares for a possible vote
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