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tv   State of the Union with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash  CNN  September 12, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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fed up with u.s. deaths, up to 1,600 a day, president biden pushes strict vaccination measures, prompting out oughtcry measures prompting public outcry from republican governors. >> these governors won't help us beat the pandemic. i'll use my power as president
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to get them out of the way. >> will his plan work? i'll speak with surgeon general vivek murthy next. strategic pause? biden agenda hits a roadblock when a key democrat objects to progressives' big bill. >> i think we can work something out. >> but what? joe manchin and senate budget chair bernie sanders join me to discuss next. plus, never forget. on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, reflection on the lessons learned. the national security adviser on 9/11, condoleezza rice, ahead. hello, i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is remembering america's horror and heroics. yesterday, america marked 20 years since the terror attacks of september 11, 2001, and in some ways reliving the way americans came together two decades ago put a spotlight on how much things have changed. president biden spent the day
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honoring those killed on 9/11 with trips to new york, the pentagon and shanksville, pennsylvania. each week, americans dying, largely preventable deaths from covid-19. republican governors are lining up against president biden's most aggressive push yet to get the pandemic under control, vowing to fight a new vaccine mandate, covering as many as 100 million americans. one model used by the cdc projects almost 100,000 more could die by december. joining me now is the u.s. surgeon general, dr. vivek murthy. thank you so much, doctor, for joining me. i want our viewers to listen to what then president-elect joe biden said in december, and what white house press secretary jen psaki said just this july. >> do you think the vaccines should be mandatory? >> no, i don't think they should be mandatory. i wouldn't demand they be mandatory. >> that's not the role of the federal government.
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that's the role that institutions, private sector entities, and others may take. >> so, doctor, what changed? >> well, dana, it's good to be with you. let's talk about the announcement and what prompted it. you know, the announcement that the president made includes a number of measures that will help us address the delta variant. the requirements we just heard about are one part of it. but they're only one part of that. also increasing our testing capacity, shore up our hospitals and health care systems struggling with delta. what the president and all of us have said as public health leaders from the earliest part of this pandemic is that we have to use every lever of government, and we all in the private sector have to do everything we can to tackle this virus. the requirements the president announced are an example of that. earlier in the summer, the president announced requirements for federal workers to attest the vaccination. this is another step in that direction. not only will federal workers be
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required to vaccinate with an exemption for medical or religious purposes but also health care systems that do business with medicare and medicaid. 17 million health care workers will be required. 80 million business workers who have, you know, 100 employees or more will also now be required under the osha rule, which is a process to get vaccinated or get tested regularly. the key thing to understand, dana, is number one the data tells us these requirements work to increase vaccinations. number two, a lot of businesses are actually relieved that these are going into place. we've heard a lot of feedback from the business round table and others that this will help us create safer workplaces. dana, keep this in mind, this is what we have to do to get to the next phase of this pandemic response so we can get through this and get back to normal once and for all. >> if these work and this is what we've got to do, as you said, why not listen to what public health experts have been saying for a long time, which is that these mandates should have
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been in place a while ago. in fact, almost 60,000 americans have died from covid-19 just this summer. so, if you're going to do it, should you have done it sooner? >> well, dana, i think that the aggressive actions earlier this week that the president announced are not the only set of aggressive actions we've taken in the administration. we've been working extraordinarily hard to vaccinate people. not only that, but we made progress. 200 million people, dana, have at least gotten one shot of the vaccine. that's one reason why we've saved many lives and many hospitalizations. with delta, which was a new twist, if you will, a new curveball, it's required us to take another set of actions. that's what you heard the president announce. and there will be more actions that we continue to work on in the days ahead, especially on the global front where we'll be taking steps and the president will be making announcements ahead of the u.n. general
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assembly about additional measures that we're taking to help vaccinate the world. there's a lot that's been done, a lot that we are doing now, a lot more that we will continue to do, dana. that's what we have to do, ultimately, to tackle the delta variant. >> i know you heard a lot of republican governors are saying that this is government overreach. some of the republican governors who are saying this, they largely work with your administration on the pandemic. asa hutchinson in arkansas, mike dewine in ohio. does that give you pause, or are they just wrong on this? >> well, certainly i respect people will have a variety of opinions on some of these measures. we respect that. the governors have been extraordinary partners. republican and democratic governors, we've had the privilege of working with them closely over the last many months. so, yes, from time to time there will be disagreements on policies. but that doesn't mean that we don't stop dialoguing and working with one another. but again, the reason we are
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pursuing some of these requirements, again, is we know a lot of businesses have welcomed it. we know that many will help keep workplaces safe. dana, if we ultimately want to not only get people back to work but keep them at work, we want workers to know i'm coming back to the workplace and it's going to be safe, these vaccinations will help people do that. that will not only improve public health but give people more peace of mind. >> the president's new plan, as you know, has some exemptions, and some of the exemptions allow for people not to get the vaccine for medical or religious reasons. any concern that people will abuse those exemptions in order to avoid getting the vaccine? >> well, dana, while that's always a possibility, it's something we, unfortunately, have experience with as a country. we have vaccine requirements for a number of other illnesses. we do that in schools, for example. when you and i went to grade school, we likely had to make sure and confirm certain vaccines were in place before we actually came to school. fortunately, as a country, we
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have experience in dealing with exemptions, but have to be vigilant there and make sure people are using them in the spirit that they're intended and not, you know, abusing them or asking for exemptions when they don't apply. that's an area we continue to monitor in the days and weeks ahead. >> the government is already mandating masks to travel on a plane or a train. i don't know if you have had this experience but i've been on planes recently, you're sitting there. people lift up their masks to eat and drink. that's understandable. so, given that reality, as a public health official, would it be a good idea to mandate vaccine for travel on that plane or on a train? >> well, dana, i'm glad you bring up travel. there are measures in what the president announced that will apply to travel including a doubling of the fines for those who do not observe some of those precautions, especially around masks on airplanes and other forms of transport. i think, dana, the important
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thing for us to remember is that in order to keep travel safe, it requires all of us to do our part, and vaccines certainly help in that regard. i've been impressed as i've traveled by how many people, i believe, are trying to stick to these regulations. folks should know, if you're worried about your risk when you travel, one of the most important things you can do to reduce your risk of a serious outcome when it comes to covid-19, including hospitalization or, god forbid, death, is to get vaccinated. if you're around other people, even masked and you are not vaccinated -- >> why not do a mandate like the new protocols that the president announced last night -- last week? >> well, look, certainly, you know, that's a reasonable question to ask. one of the things we have to consider with every decision we make is the equity concerns as well. we know that when it comes to mandating vaccines for travel, there are important issues around equity that would have to be worked out to ensure that people, for example, if they had to travel in the case of an emergency to see a relative who got sick, would be able to do that even if they weren't
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vaccinated. we need to find a safe way for that to happen. there are important considerations we need to weigh. overall, though, dana, the measures you see taken in what the president announced when it comes to the vaccine requirements, that will help reach 100 million workers in the federal government and in the private sector. they're some of the most aggressive actions we've seen taken to date, and they will help. >> real quick. we're almost out of time. a question near and dear to both of our hearts, we have young kids. any update on the timeline for getting children who are under 12 vaccinated? >> dana, what the fda said recently was really an affirmation of what you and i have discussed which is getting a vaccination for kids for covid-19 remains the top priority for the fda. they are ready as soon as the companies finish their trials and get the data to them, to process that quickly, to review it and make sure our kids have a vaccine that is both safe and effective. >> dr. vivek murthy, u.s. surgeon general, thank you for
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joining me this morning. >> thank you so much, dana. take care. president biden may be running out of time to get his big-ticket items through congress. his fellow democrat is throwing hurdles in the way. senator joe manchin joins me next. then his colleague who is writing a budget bill that needs manchin's support to pass. senator bernie sanders will respond. stay with us. you probably think visa is a credit card company, huh? ♪ but it's actually a network. ♪ connecting just about everyone to just about everyone else. ♪ it can open eyes with a cup of coffee and change minds on what makes a business, a business. and it is working to connect everyone, everywhere. so, meet visa. a network working for everyone. ♪
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welcome back to "state of the union." democrats in congress are making a big push this month to send two major priorities to president biden's desk. the bipartisan infrastructure deal and a massive $3.5 trillion budget filled with progressive
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priorities. all of that hit a roadblock after my next guest called for a, quote, strategic pause on that bill, saying the price was too high, and with the 50/50 senate, democrats can't even lose one vote. and west virginia senator joe manchin joins me now. thank you for coming in. appreciate it. let's talk about the op-ed you wrote. you said you cannot support the $3.5 trillion bill until you get greater clarity on why that amount is necessary. most of your colleagues have been trying to give you that clarity over the past couple of weeks since you wrote that. your party leader, chuck schumer, says he's moving, quote, full speed ahead with this package. will he have your vote? >> and that's fine. he can. he will not have my vote on 3.5. chuck knows that. we've talked about this. we already put out $5.4 trillion, and tried to help americans in every way we possibly can.
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a lot of the help we put out there is still there and is going to run until clear into next year, 2022. what's the urgency? what's the urgency we have? it's not the same urgency we had with the american rescue plan. we got that out the door quickly, about $2 trillion. on top of that, with the c.a.r.e.s package, everything leading up to that. there's still an awful lot of people you need help but you have 11 million jobs that aren't filled right now. something is not matching up. don't you think we ought to hit the pause and find out? the vulnerability we have right now, we don't know what happened with this covid. it's awful, coming back the way it is with a vengeance. we don't know about inflation. it's running rampant right now. in west virginia, inflation is running rampant. on top of that, the geopolitical challenges we're going to have. shouldn't we be prepared? >> i want to ask you about a lot of that. but are you saying it's the price tag, it's the timeline, both? >> it's the urgency. do we have the urgency to do what they're wanting to do in such a quick period of time? >> can you be specific? let's talk about the dollar
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sign. >> yeah. >> do you have a specific number in mind? >> here is a number you should be getting to. first of all, i have agreed to get on to the reconciliation, because that's the time for us to make financial adjustments and changes. i thought the 2017 tax code and tax law the way it was changed was very, very unfair and it was weighted to the wealthy. >> so what's the number? >> bottom line is, what's the number? it would be what's competitive in our tax code. i believe corporate rate should be at 25, not 21. >> what's the overall number for the budget bill? >> you're going to have to look at it and find out what you're able to do through a reasonable, responsible way. >> so how do you know it's not 3.5? >> it's going to be 1, 1.5. we don't know where it's going to be. >> you think ballpark 1, 1.5? >> it's not going to be 3.5, i can assure you. once you have a competitive tax code that you can compete globally and then look at what the need is, the urgency and the need. >> i want to get to that. because this is the thing that people consume.
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do you have a ceiling? >> my ceiling is this: the need of the american people. for us to basically take into consideration inflation. no one is concerned about the debt. our debt as of friday was $28.75 billion? >> you said 1.5. is that your number? >> if we have a competitive tax code from a noncompetitive, doesn't help the working person that was done in 2017. that's in the one, 1.5 range. that's where it is. what does it take now to meet the urgent needs we have that we haven't already met? >> let's talk about how this would be paid for. the white house chief of staff, ron klain told me on this week you are, quote, very persuadable on this budget bill because, he says, it will be paid for. it won't add to the debt. it won't add to inflation. >> they're paying for it with inflated numbers from the
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standpoint of the tax code. the numbers they're wanting to pay for and the tax changes they want to make, is that competitive? does it keep us competitive or not? i believe there are some changes made that do not keep us competitive. >> meaning don't increase the taxes on corporations? >> no, no. i want to increase taxes on corporations. i've spoken to corporations. >> what exactly are you saying? >> i want the wealthy to pay their fair share. if you are competitive globally, then it will be counterproductive. everyone is looking at this in a whole complete different way than maybe i am, or other people, or other people are keeping quiet. the bottom line is, do we have the urgency to spend another $3.5 trillion right now? the most urgent thing we have to do is get the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's gone left unattended for over 30 years, deferred maintenance throughout every part of our nation. that's the one. the president went out and campaigned on that. that's his bill. we worked it in a bipartisan way. got 19 republicans to vote for it. that's the bill that should go
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out immediately. >> and that's -- you have another side of this negotiation with some of your fellow democrats, which i want to get to in a second. let's stay on what they call in washington the pay fors. they're looking at increasing the corporate tax rate, closing existing loop holes, raising taxes on wealthy americans, trying to get money back from -- get the irs -- >> i agree with all of that. >> they say they can add that up to 3.5 and there will not be a dollar -- >> no. >> that's what they're saying. you don't believe that? >> those rates are not going to be competitive. here is the difference. they're looking for 3.5 trillion. i'm looking for a competitive tax rate. i want to make adjustments and changes. >> what does competitive tax rate mean? >> globally competitive. you have to be globally competitive. >> can you explain -- >> first of all, it can't be at 39% as far as capital gains. i said 28 all in, okay?
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you can't be at 28 or 30 or more with a corporate net. i said 25 all in. and i think that every corporation should pay a minimum of 15%. they should all pay something. i believe in that. but the bottom line is, the need that we have -- they put no qualifications on this as means testing of the need of the people, means testing. how many people have you had that say they're sending me checks, i don't know why? we've all heard that. >> i want to get to some of the specifics in a second. you just said you want to get the infrastructure bill that you helped to negotiate, a bipartisan infrastructure bill pass the senate. >> and the white house is behind it. >> as you well know, dozens of house progressives are saying, no, they're not going to vote for your infrastructure bill until you support what we're talking about here, the overall budget bill, which has a lot of the president's agenda, a lot of democrats' agenda in it.
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by digging in your heels on this, aren't you dooming your own infrastructure bill? >> who is digging in their heels? the infrastructure bill has been passed. you have a bipartisan bill with 19 republicans. who thought that could happen? who thought that -- you know, we worked hard on that for many, many months. and the president's team was very much involved. and the president went out and sold this around the country. why would you basically let the perfect be the enemy of the good? you have a bill right now. i'm not saying we're not going to get the reconciliation bill whenever. >> they have leverage. they have leverage, just like you have leverage. they're using their leverage, the house progressives, just like you are. >> that's fine. if they can go home and tell people, hey, i don't care about the roads and bridges. you don't need them. i don't care about internet service. you don't need that. i don't care about fixing water and sewer lines. i don't care about the hard infrastructure that's left go for 30 years, i don't care about that. i can't go home and say that in west virginia. we need all that. we have the worst bridges in the country. >> do you take this threat seriously by the progressives?
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>> they have to do what they have to do. i'm not involved with the house rules and any of that. they're going to do what they think is best. if they play politics with the needs of america, i can tell you, america will recoil. >> they say you're playing politics. >> i don't think so. bottom line is, if it's such good politics and they think $3.5 trillion, why are they rushing it? >> let's talk about the specifics. i want to get to the substance of what we're talking about here. i don't think that gets enough attention. >> sure. >> what president biden and the democrats say is, the child tax credit, which has been expanded. make it permanent. they're saying it's already having a major impact on poverty and hunger for children. do you support making it permanent? >> i support child tax credits. >> the expansion that is -- >> let's talk about this before you start saying is it going to be permanent, this and that. >> yeah. >> let's see how we're doing this, getting it to the right people. i can tell you, people that are working and working poor, making every effort they can to get
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ahead in life is at 50,000 and below. i have people making combined 200, 300, 400,000 saying they're getting checks. >> it's on a sliding scale. they shouldn't be doing that. >> it's happening because of the sliding scale. 75 and 150 with a sliding fee up to 400. these are things that are hard caps. the need based, we're not having anything about need based. we're not doing any type of that. first of all, child tax credits, think about this. if you want to help the children and the parents are basically providing for those children, there's no work requirements whatsoever. there's no education requirements whatsoever for better skill sets. don't you think if we want to help the children, that people should make some effort? >> let's talk about universal pre-k, west virginia, your home state. >> i'm all for that. i'm all in. >> you want to make it a federal program? >> it's fine if it's federal but states can do it, too. they have the responsibility. >> should universal pre-k be in a bill like this?
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>> i don't have a problem because i support universal pre-k. >> how about universal funding for home care services for the sick and elderly? >> there's $60 billion that's not out the door yet. only thing i'm saying is why the urgency to spend another $300 billion toward that when you don't have $60 billion that went hasn't gone out? why are we not able to get into that, to make sure that the administration is able to disburse the money to get it to where it needs to help. >> clean energy provisions in this bill would use tax incentives and carbon capture technology to try to cut emissions in half and make the electric grid 80% clean energy by 2030. do you support that? >> let me tell you this. let's look at where we've been the last 20 years. in 2000, year 2000, 52% of our electricity came from coal. only about 16% came from natural gas and 9.5% came from renewables. 20 years to day. 2020, 19% from coal, 40% from
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natural gas, 20% for renewals. the transition is happening. now they're wanting to pay companies to do what they're already doing and pay them. it makes no sense at all to pay utilities what they're doing as market transitions. they're accelerating something that can be very, very vulnerable to the reliability -- >> it sounds like a no. you don't support the provisions? >> makes no sense at all. makes no sense. >> i'm sure you've heard your fellow democrat, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez about you in a tweet. manchin has weekly huddles with exxon and is one of many senators who gives lobbyists their pen to write so-called bipartisan fossil fuel bills. it's killing people. sick of this bipartisan corruption that masquerades as clear-eyed moderation. >> i keep my door open for everybody. that's totally false. those type of superlatives that
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continue to divide, divide. i don't know that young lady that well. i met her one time between sets but that's it. we've not had any conversations. she's speculating and saying things. >> she's not the only one. i'm sure you've heard a number of fellow democrats who say you're opposed to this because you're bought and paid for by corporate donors. >> it makes no sense at all. i gave you the facts. you're entitled to your own facts -- i mean your own opinions. you're just not entitled to create your own facts to support them, and that's exactly what they're doing. the facts i've given you, transition is happening. reliability. look what happened in texas. natural gas basically shut down in texas that caused all that horrible carnage to people. it was awful. >> you have said, pause. what the senate wants to do is get this worked out by this week so that the house can vote on it september 27th. is that a timeline that you can support?
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>> there's no way we can get this done by the 27th, if we do our job. there's so much differences that we have here, and there's so much apart from us where we are, as far as i'm giving you different things. i've been talking and working with people. i'm willing to talk to people. it makes no sense at all. >> real quick on another topic, because i've been traveling, working on a project on voting. i've been to georgia, texas, arizona. every democrat i talk to there says that they need the federal government to act. you, to help find a way to get a federal voting rights bill passed. i know you've been working on it this summer. >> we're doing everything we can. >> where are you? >> lisa murkowski has been working with me. we talked to quite a few republicans who are interested in doing something that makes sense. voting, basically the security of voting is the bedrock of our democracy. if you don't have access to the voting poll, if it's not secure and if the count is not accurate, then people have no confidence.
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right now, the last two presidential elections, when it was over for president trump or president biden, there's over 40 billion people -- 40 million that didn't believe it was accurate. that's wrong. and if you're going to do something in a partisan way, just double down, get rid of the filibuster. let's do it partisan. that will divide us even further. >> do you think you'll get this done before the mid terms? >> i definitely believe we can, if we work hard. getting rid of things is the easy thing to do. saying i don't want the filibuster, that's easy. who would have thought we would have 19 republicans vote for the infrastructure bill? who would have thought that? look at all the things we're able to do because we're working through it. there's ability 2 about /* -- about 22 of us 11 ds and 11 rs, we continue to make -- continuously, we build relationships. ask those senators or some of the congresspeople who are telling you how bad the other side -- ask them the last time they sat down, had a cup of coffee, conversation, maybe had dinner, know what their spouse's name, how many children they have. ask him.
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are they working hard enough or are they basically hunkered down in their own position and defending it? you're entitled to your opinion. you just can't create your own facts and make your own statements that aren't accurate. >> senator joe manchin, thank you so much for your time this morning. appreciate it. >> appreciate being with you. senator bernie sanders, who is writing the budget bill, says $3.5 trillion is the compromise. he's here to respond next. ♪ ♪ ♪ i've got big news! now, nurtec odt is the first and only medication
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on the campaign trail trying to sell voters in middle america on democrats' $3.5 trillion plan to expand the child care tax credit, paid leave, along with new investments battling the climate crisis. but right now, his focus is on a key senate democrat he must convince to get any of this done. joining me now is the chairman of the senate budget committee and the author of the reconciliation bill, senator bernie sanders of vermont. thank you so much for joining me. first, your colleague, joe manchin, just explicitly told me repeatedly he will not support your $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. he wants to see something more in the ballpark of $1.5 trillion. is that acceptable to you? >> no. it is absolutely not acceptable to me. i don't think it's acceptable to the president, to the american people or to the overwhelming majority of the people in the democratic caucus. look, we worked with senator manchin to pass the $1.9 trillion american rescue plan,
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which was enormously consequential and helpful to working class families in getting us out of the economic disaster that befell us as a result of covid. i believe we can all sit down and work together and come up with a $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill, which deals with the enormously unmet needs of working families. you know, we've got to lower the cost of prescription drugs for people. we've got to expand medicare to include dental, hearing aids and eyeglasses. we have to maintain the $300 direct payment we're giving to working parents, which have lowered childhood poverty in america by 50%. i'll tell you what else we have got to do. the scientists will tell us that we've got a few years left before there will be irreparable, irreversible harm to our planet if we do not address climate change. the truth of the matter, dana, as you may know, many of us made
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a major compromise in going from the $6 trillion bill we wanted, supported by the overwhelming majority of democrats down to 3.5. the last point i would make on this, i know senator manchin worked very hard on the bipartisan infrastructure bill, $550 billion of new money to rebuild our roads and bridges. what we have worked on is working both of those bills in tandem. they go together, and it would be a really sad state of affairs for the american people, for congress, if both of those bills went down. >> do you think that's possible, that that could happen right now? >> yeah. i don't think it will happen. i mean, i think -- look, this is a very difficult issue. what we are trying to do in this bill is more significant for working families than any bill probably since fdr and the new deal. we're talking about expanding medicare. we're talking about making sure no working family in america
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pays more than 7% of their income for child care, making pre-k universal and free, putting an enormous amount of money in affordable housing, creating millions of good-paying jobs, you name it. it is a consequential bill. it is hard to put a bill like this together. at the end of the day, i believe we will. >> i want to ask you more about the substance in a second. the other thing that senator manchin is opposed to is the timeline.s opposed to is the chuck schumer wants to have a draft of this reconciliation bill done by wednesday. the house speaker committed to holding a vote by september 27th. he said that's not going to happen, full stop. are you willing to give it more time? >> a few days here and there doesn't matter. but there is a sense of urgency. and the sense of urgency is that we live in a country today where the wealthiest people and the largest corporations are doing phenomenally well while working class people are struggling all
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over this country. in terms of health care you have underinsured or uninsured people who can't afford to pay for prescription drugs, send their kids to college. kids are leaving school deeply in debt. 600,000 people in america are homeless today. and you've got the climate crisis. oregon is burning, california is burning, siberia is burning. people are dying in floods in new york city, unprecedented rainfall. there is a sense of urgency, which i think the american people understand. and what they want is finally, maybe, just maybe the congress of the united states work for them and not just the wealthy contributors and rich and powerful who, by the way, are pouring huge amounts of monies -- drug companies, fossil fuel industry, huge amounts of money to try to defeat us. >> let's talk about that. senator manchin said pretty explicitly he's opposed to the clean energy provisions you are going to put into this bill as
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you write it. he also wants to see more evidence that the child tax credit is working and is going to the proper people, not wealthier people, but if making it permanent. he doesn't support raising the corporate tax rate as high as you want. this isn't about the overall dollar figure or the timeline. it's a disagreement, a pretty deep disagreement about some of the fundamental priorities you have been talking about. how do you bridge that? >> but, dana, please understand within the context of the democratic caucus -- and i hope everybody in america knows, we have no republican support for this. we're talking about mr. manchin, but the real outrage is that we've got not one republican who is prepared to extend the $300 direct payment for working parents so they can raise their children in security and dignity. not one republican is prepared to help us take on the existential threat of climate change. now, in terms of taxation, at a time when you have billionaires
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and large corporations in this country, in some cases not paying a nickel in federal income tax, you know what? we should and can pay for this entire $3.5 trillion bill which, by the way, extends over ten years. we should pay for it by demanding the wealthiest people, start paying a fair share of their taxes. if mr. manchin wants to pay for it completely, i'm delighted. i know senator widen of the finance committee will work with him, we can do that. >> again what he said is that that is one issue, paying for it. but the broader question is, the real differences on the question of your priorities here. but also just the raw math. you mentioned republicans not being on board. i don't need to tell you, this is a 50/50 senate. if senator manchin or even krysten sinema in arizona
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doesn't vote for this, you won't get the votes. how do you get there? are you willing to compromise on any of this. >> i did. >> i know you did. additionally. >> no, no, don't make this a bernie sanders versus joe manchin issue. it's not -- >> i'm not trying to. >> dana, dana, dana. >> as budget chairman, you have a negotiating position. you and other -- the white house and the leadership. i don't mean to make it about you. just how do you, the democratic leadership and the white house, get to a place where there is something that can be done? >> i'll tell you how we get it. i'll tell you how we get it. the american people are going to speak out on this issue. every single poll that i have seen, whether you are a democrat or working class republican, or independent, overwhelming support for this bill. the president of the united states wants it. now, this is not like a 50/50 split in the democratic caucus. you may know this. i'm chairman of the budget committee.
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on the budget committee are 11 democrats. nine of them were prepared to support a $6 trillion bill. i would guess at least 40 out of 50 democrats. understand we need at least $6 trillion. there's already been a significant compromise. the bottom line here, if you think about the house as well, these two bills, the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill are marching down the path together. mr. manchin, i know, worked very hard on the bipartisan bill. it would be a terrible thing for the american people if both of those bills fail. they are linked together. they're going to go forward together. >> and that's my final question to you. you know a lot of your fellow progressives in the house are saying explicitly they will not vote for the infrastructure bill that's already passed the senate. >> and i agree with that. let me be clear. i think they're doing exactly the right thing. promises have been made.
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agreements have been made. we want a physical infrastructure. we have to rebuild our roads and bridges. that's important. human infrastructure is more important. we cannot continue to have elderly people unable to hear, no teeth in their mouths, children who can't get decent child care. we cannot afford not to deal with climate. we have got to do that in this unprecedented moment in american history. two bills go together. at the end of the day, i believe we're going to pass them both. >> senate budget chairman, bernie sanders, thank you so much for joining me this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> the memories are still as clear as the skies on the morning of september 11th, 2001. the national security adviser on that day, condoleezza rice, is next.
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yesterday the nation paused on the 20th anniversary of the september 11th attacks. i spoke to the woman who was the national security adviser that day, condoleezza rice, about the war on afghanistan and the conversation she had with then president george w. bush minutes after the second plane hit the towers. >> i talked to after the first plane and we both thought perhaps it was an accident. but when the second plane went in. but then it was a terrorist attack. our conversation was sharp and short. he said, i'm coming back. i said, mr. president, you can't come back here. i raised my voice to him, dana, which you don't do to the president of the united states. i needed him to understand that he couldn't come back because it wasn't safe. he was really a little bit angry.
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he wanted to come back because you know him, dana. you know at that moment emotions were running hot. that was the conversation, you can't come back here, america is under attack. >> you penned an op-ed saying americans are more safe now than 9/11. recent polling suggests americans don't agree with you for lots of reasons. perhaps one of the reasons is looking at what's happening in afghanistan, the taliban back in charge. why do you think the u.s. is saf safer? >> i would distinguish the apparatus we built, the national counterintelligence center that merges intelligence in the way that we did not before 9/11, a homeland security department that didn't exist before 9/11 and is actually dedicated to thinking about the security of
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the homeland. the fact that, for the time being at least, we have disabled the al qaeda, the highly sophisticated, highly disciplined organization that actually carried out the 9/11 attack. when you think about the coordination that that took, the flying of planes into buildings and so forth, that's a sophisticated operation. it meant they couldn't train and couldn't operate in the way that they did on that day. but i would separate all of that, all that we achieved in that 20 years with our allies from nato and our allies from afghanistan, the part that doesn't make me feel very comforted is we've lost the eyes and ears on the ground in afghanistan, that allowed us to know where the terrorists are,
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that allowed us to run intelligence that we have, we've lost bagram and other airfields that were able to allow us to run even drone operations out of them. i would be the first to say we've lost some of the capabilities. nah shouldn't diminish the capabilities we do have. we are still safer. i hope we can remain that safe into the future. >> thank you to secretary rice for joining me last week. so did america win its longest war? it's a tough question even with tougher answers from america's top generals. my co-host, jake tapper has a cnn special report tonight with some of the people who led the u.s. in war. you'll be surprised with what they had to say. america's longest war, what went wrong in afghanistan, hosted by jake tapper. that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. you don't want to miss it.
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thanks for joining us today. again tonight, top u.s. generals on, "what went wrong in afghanistan: america's longest war" airs at 9:00 p.m. eastern. >> corruption was one of the reasons how things turned out. >> was pakistan the enemy? >> no, but pakistan was not our friend. >> the tough questions that still need answers. >> if everybody gets an a but the overall effort is still an f, who do we hold accountable? fine, no one leaves the table until your finished. fine, we'll sleep here.
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this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. on today's show, 20 years since the 9/11 attacks, 28 days since the fall of kabul. we will look at the legacy of islamic terror and the war that followed 9/11. has osama bin laden's dream to destroy the myth of american invincibility come true?


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