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tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  October 5, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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she took a tremendous personal and professional risk today. i applaud her. i know i and a lot of other people who worked at facebook over the years are going to be watching close three make sure she's not unfairly retaliated against. >> but do you agree that the company cares about profits above everything, including whether or not people in the world are imperiled or whether kids are damaged? we heard about that instagram feed that senator blumenthal's staff set up, a 13-year-old pretending she wants to look beautiful and be thin and all of a sudden, she starts getting bombarded with all these like damaging messages and posts. >> one of the things about facebook, it's always very data driven. when you reduce something down to data, engagement or time spent on site, it's easy to abtract away and say we want more of those things. what we have seen and what i think some of the documents that she brought forth that facebook has not contested shows that engagement has tremendous harms in all sorts of different areas,
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including instagram or others. so it is one of the things she showed is that chain of how that focus on what they call kpis or key performance indicators really helps build that trail to building and growing harms that i think today we saw in congress. >> she first revealed herself as the facebook whistleblower or most recent facebook whistleblower this past sunday on "60 minutes." facebook noted $13 billion has been spent on safety and security since 2016. a statement goes on to say protecting our community is more important than maximizing our profits. to say we turn a blind eye to feedback ignores these investments. so far, however, we haven't gotten any reaction -- an official reaction to haugen's testimony. i guess some spokespeople have been on tv talking but no official documentation. are you surprised with how they've handled her testimony? zuckerberg putting up video of him and his family on a boat at a time she's warning our
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families are not safe because of facebook, because of zuckerberg? >> i think a lot of reporting from some great reporters has shown that facebook has decided to take a more defiant and less apologetic tone and not address the problems but kind of be aggressive and hope that that changes the story. i think the story today is very clear that aside from her compelling testimony, these documents are real. and they are their own documents and they show when the questions were asked, are we causing harms? too often the answer was, yes. one of the things facebook has been very consistent on is saying, we are throwing more money at this than others are. that may be true but doesn't answer the question of, is it sufficient to solve the problem? is 40,000 employees, which seems like a tremendous amount, a sufficient amount -- working on safety and security, sufficient to handle 2.3 billion users? the answer is probably it isn't. and the question that congress should be asking is, not just what is the right number or the way to handle this, but what internally have other people at
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facebook asked for? has a team asked for 10,000 members and been told for budgetary reasons you can have 200? that's part of the conversation that hopefully this will bring to light because we really think -- i think having watched this testimony today, transparency is the thing that seems to have bipartisan consensus. senators wanted to know more. they wanted to understand what the problems were and the depth of the research and other issues as they start to think about the harder and thornier problems of regulation. we'll have monica lewinsky on later in the hour. she has a new documentary on hbo max. in it, one of the technology experts talk about that social media is a lot like, what if you were driving in your car and there was a company that was designed to look at what you look at while you're driving. this billboard, that stop sign and then you drive by a car wreck and, obviously, we all do what we do when we drive by car wrecks. oh, that's so horrible, whatever, and the artificial intelligence, the algorithm says, oh, this guy likes looking
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at mangled cars and dead people and starts giving that to you over and over, even though that would be incredibly damaging to a person. and yet that's what social media does. we hear about women who have miscarriages or stillbirths or lose a child and because they are on social media or on the internet looking for that sort of thing, they now spend the next 10, 20 years of their lives being bombarded by that. is there no way to fix any of these? the algorithms are there to get engagement, i get that. but that's unconscionable. >> so i think there's two things. one is the documents that frances brought forth to the public light shows that facebook is pretty bad at what it wants to be good at. it's having trouble attracting teenage users or gen-z or demographics it wants for advertisers. it's very good at the things it doesn't want to be good at. promoting extremism. recommending engines that push people toward content that's really problematic. so it is a problem for the
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company that they have to be honest about and as somebody who worked there, wants them to be honest about. as to what we can do to solve it, there's two things. one is we need more transparency so regulators, academics can study the problem, understand it and we need to tackle these problems. facebook is correct in one thing. their self-regulation has failed. asking them to do it all by themselvesing is isn't going to be something that works. and congress has an opportunity to step up. there are some things that can be done right away. we can see the ftc work on privacy rules. we can see congress take up a privacy law or continue to work on antitrust. but there's a bigger question of how we handle these harms that are kind of more diffuse and more problematic and more technolog can than they've ever been. things that don't fit neatly in existing regulatory buckets. >> regulation -- section 230 was formed in 1996. 1996! i mean, a decade before
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facebook. more. anyway, adam conner, great to have you here. we'll be talking about this for a long, long time. turning to our politics lead, president biden bringing the gridlock of washington to the great lakes state of michigan. he spoke last hour to a group of union workers about his ambitious economic agenda. the president arguing that his twin economic packages are essential to kickstart the country's growth, especially for middle class and working families. as jeff zeleny reports, the president's trip comes as a deadline looms. >> these bills are not about left versus right. or moderate versus progressive or anything that pits americans against one another. >> reporter: president biden is trying to break through a stubborn washington stalemate, traveling to michigan in hopes of jump-starting his domestic agenda. >> i know there's a lot of noise in washington. there always is. but it seems to me a little more than usual now. a whole lot of hyperbole. a lot of heat, and i'm here
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today to try to set some things straight if i can. >> reporter: the president visited a union training facility, making the case that his two-part economic plan is crucial for the tous stay competitive with china and other rivals. >> we risk use losing our edge as a nation. >> reporter: the white house is trying to elevate the conversation. even as it works to bridge the democratic divide over the size and scope of the plans. there's general agreement on a $1.2 trillion infrastructure plan. but only if a compromise can be reached on the larger spending measure for health care, education, climate change and more. the price tag of which must be scaled back from $3.5 trillion to about $2 trillion. >> these bills are about competitiveness versus complacency. they are about opportunity versus decay. they are about leading the world or continuing to let the world pass us by, which is literally happening. >> reporter: the president also pointing to a more urgent crisis. a political fight over raising the nation's debt limit which
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republicans have so far refused to join democrats in doing. the dispute threatens to send the u.s. government into default in less than two weeks, rattling financial markets. to salvage his agenda, the president is trying to thread a delicate needle between progressives and moderates in his party. yet biden selected michigan's eighth congressional district to make his case. a clear nod to the moderate side of the argument. after stepping off air force one today, he shook hands with congresswoman elissa slotkin, a democrat who narrowly won her seat in a district twice carried by donald trump. the white house is trying to show investing in things like infrastructure have broad support across the country. >> to support these investments is to create a rising america. to oppose these investments is to be complicit in america's decline. >> reporter: jake, this speech was reminiscent of a campaign speech that president biden would have given a year ago here in battleground michigan.
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but the challenges remain the same. those two senators, joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. president biden, just as he was leaving michigan, he said he's been in new conversations with both of them. he's trying to urge them to say what they like out of this bill and they'll add it up from there. but that top price tag is still too much for either of them to swallow. >> jeff zeleny in michigan, thanks. coming up next, we'll talk to the former commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan who now admits the war was a strategic failure. plus, brian laundrie's sister is speaking publicly. what she has to say about the possibility that her parents are helping her brother. that's ahead.
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nearly two months since the taliban swept into power in afghanistan, including kabul, the capital. even though the taliban had once promised, however credibly, to respect women's rights, the militant group has, of course, since banned female students from secondary education. some cases ordered them to leave their workplaces. clarissa ward filed a report on how women are taking to the streets in protest. here's a part of that report. >> reporter: it seems the taliban may have come to protect the women. but the illusion is quickly shattered. someone from the taliban has just come in telling everyone to put away their cameras. it's getting a little tense over there. no, put it away. put it away. a machine gun burst sends a clear message. the protest is over.
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>> no surprise there. here to discuss, the former commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan, general stanley mcchrystal who led the nation's top military counterterrorism force, the joint special operations command in the mid-2000s. he has a new book out called "risk, a user's guide." it looks at how leaders approach and handle risk. general, it's no surprise, obviously, that the taliban is reverting to its old ways with their misogynistic view of women. you have said publicly that you agree with mark milley that the war in afghanistan was a strategic failure. i guess it would be hard to argue anything else. hindsight is 2020. is there anyone in particular that you blame for how quickly the taliban took over the country? >> no, jake, i blame all of us. you have to navigate from where you are, not from where you wish you are. so what we have to do right now is decide how we're going to be helpful in the region to include for the afghan people.
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i don't think we can turn our back and walk away completely. we have to interact as best we can. second, we have to go to school on what went wrong. i don't think we'll find a single person to hold accountable for the failure. i don't think there's a single decision that did it. i think it was more a systemic failure. and that should bother us because my experience was, it was good people with good intentions trying really hard, and it didn't come out right. and that should give us pause. >> in your new book you say, quote, the biggest risk to us is us. and you point out how the united states knew that a pandemic such as covid-19 could happen and yet, leaders were woefully unprepared. that's the best description, but most kind description we could come up with. what was the biggest mistake made in that? >> well, i think it was systemic. we often focus on outside threats when we worry about the next thing that's going to come. in reality, in covid-19, it was a predictable threat. that kind of a threat comes in
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regular intervals. also, we knew what to do about it. we have experience in public health. and then we also have a medical miracle. scientists created a vaccine faster than any time in history. we should be having celebration parades right now. we should be patting each other on the back, how our unified united states of america fended off this common enemy, but we can't do that because we didn't do it. we dropped the ball. and i think we started with the fact that the communication around the country, the narrative we had, the leadership, in many cases that failed us. in many cases it was very good. didn't measure up to what we should have had for ourselves. we have to have a systemic approach that protects our society. >> yeah. you say -- this is related, but you say in your book the biggest threat america faces now is not the taliban or global pandemic but disinformation. this is also part of the, you
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know, the biggest enemy we have is us. what is at stake here with this disinformation world that we're in, that is partially to blame for the fact that 200,000 or so americans have died of covid since the vaccines were introduced. what is at stake here? >> well, almost everything is at stake. very fabric of our nation. if we go back in history, adolf hitler used disinformation very effectively in earlier times. then the american tobacco institute as we cover in our book really misled the american people in a very subtle argument that said, smoking might cause cancer. and they left enough doubt that allowed people to smoke and convince themselves it was okay. now what we've got is disinformation amplified by information technology of a power we can't even comprehend. the ability to shape not only what we think but how we think is really powerful. and young people, of course, are in the crosshairs of that.
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but we're all touched. so if we can start to break apart our society because we can convince people that white is black and up is down, it's going to be pretty hard to move forward. so that needs to be what we focus on. but we can do that. we have the power to solve this. >> in one of the final acts of the 20-year war in afghanistan, the u.s. fired a missile from a drone at a car in kabul. it was a horrible mistake. tended up killing ten innocent afghan civilians. do you worry about the u.s. capabilities when it comes to successful missions now that we're fully out of the country? i mean that one, that mission was with the u.s. still in the country? >> i would ask people to think about that one a little bit because it was a horrible mistake, but at the same time, the person who was controlling that had this terrible dilemma. if they had not taken a shot and that car had gone to the airfield and created another mass casualty event like a couple of days before that, then we'd be having a very different
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conversation. this highlights how difficult that is because even though you are seeing things from 10,000 feet, it's two-dimensional. not knowing what's going on, on the ground makes it harder. we have to respect the fact that this is going to be challenging to understand. >> daniel davis is a retired army lieutenant colonel. he served two tours in afghanistan. there was an article in "the washington post" about a month ago about the fact that the afghanistan war's failures have been laid bare and in his view and others military leaders should be evaluated. he writes for years it's been payday for the generals while the war itself has been a complete disaster. at what point do we hold anyone accountable. he in the article very directly talk about you. and your post military career and how you apply military strategies used in afghanistan to offer advise to u.s. businesses or governments. this book is not a bad example of that either.
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"risk: a user's guide. "you were known in the military during and after your time there as a thinker. have you re-evaluated the lessons you learned in afghanistan in how you use them in the private sector, and how do you respond to people who say you're profiting off your experience and, you know, the afghanistan war was ultimately a disaster? >> i think if we all don't learn from our experiences and share them with other people, then the reality is we don't move forward as a society. one of the things we have done in the last year and a half is work with the city of boston. i got a call from mayor marty walsh who asked if we'd help as covid approached. members of my team went up for about 5 1/2 months and helped them put together the ability to communicate better. deal with the kind of threat that covid-19 turned out to be. i'm pretty proud of that. i'm very proud of the interactions the team i'm a part of does with civilian companies, parts of government, states, so i would say that, you have to contribute the best way you can
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and so i think we're doing that. >> general stanley mcchrystal. his new book is called "risk: a user's guide." it's out right now. only one major airline is resisting a vaccine mandate for employees. why? that's next. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa. ♪ pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. and try new drug free pepto herbal blends. made from 100% natural ginger and peppermint.
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in our health lead, delta remains the only major u.s. airline stuck in a holding pattern. now that southwest says its employees will have to get coronavirus vaccinations. southwest joining the list of major u.s. carriers mandating vaccinations for their workforce mostly because of pressure from the biden administration.
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of the big four, american, delta, southwest and united, only united imposed the vaccine mandate on its own. cnn aviation correspondent pete muntean joins us from reagan international airport just outside d.c. why is delta holding out? >> delta says it's still examining this guidance from the white house. what's so interesting is that delta insists that its own approach is working. and that it may not have to issue a worker vaccine mandate after all. unvaccinated delta employees will face a $200 a month surcharge on their health insurance starting early next month. so far, delta says about 84% of its employees have already been vaccinated voluntarily. and delta's ceo ed bastian says that will go up to 90% by early november. this is what he just told our richard quest in an exclusive interview. >> so a mandate in and of itself is a blunt instrument. that you need to get a shot or you lose your job. and knowing that we have a lot
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of employees that have been here for many years, some that have very deep-seeded feelings and concerns about the vaccine, i wanted to respect that. but there's a cost to it. >> the facts are these worker vaccine mandates do work. united's vaccine mandate just went into effect last week. 67,000 employees in the u.s. had to submit to that. only about 232 resisted. united tells us that that number actually went down as the firing process began for those employees who initially resisted, jake. >> pete, also new data on incidents with unruly airline passengers. >> well, the rate of unruly airline passenger incidents continue to go up. this story is not over. 4,600 incidents just this year alone according to the faa. just in the last week, there have been 128 new incidents reported by flight crews to the federal government. that number is the highest weekly figure we've seen in more than 2 1/2 months.
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and it's likely these numbers continue to go up. as concerns about the pandemic subside, more and more people come back to air travel, jake. >> pete muntean at reagan, thank you. gabby petito's family and brian brian laundrie's sister both have a message. monica lewinsky joinsny talk about her new hbo documentary. that's next. woman: my reputation was trashed online. i felt completely helpless. my entire career and business were in jeopardy. i called reputation defender. vo: take control of your online reputation. get your free reputation report card at find out your online reputation today and let the experts help you repair it.
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fiance brian laundrie has been missing. his sister cassie speaking, insisting she has no idea where her brother is. >> i do fot know where brian is. i'd turn him in. >> reporter: she also expressed a range of emotions feeling worried about him but also angry. >> i would tell my brother to just come forward and get us out of this horrible mess. >> reporter: monday, cassie also revealing to protesters staked outside her home that brian flew home august 17th, just five days after that fight he and gabby had in moab, utah. the attorney for laundrie's parents confirming in a statement to cnn that laundrie flew home the 17th and returned to utah august 23rd to rejoin gabby and that, quote, brian flew home to obtain some items and empty and close a storage unit to save money as they contemplated extending the road trip. cassie says she saw brian during that august 17th trip but she says the last time she saw her brother was when he went camping with his parents at fort desoto park september 6th and there was
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no discussion about gabby. >> we just went for a couple of hours and ate dinner and had s'mores around the campfire and left. there was nothing peculiar about it. there was no feeling of grand good-bye. there was no nothing. >> reporter: today gabby's parents and stepparents speaking out on dr. phil's show saying they believe brian is definitely alive and in hiding. >> a coward. >> anyone that lived in that house is a coward. >> according to the police, brian laundrie's parents claim they last saw him september 14th. they reported him missing three days later when asked about her parents' involvement, cassie told abc -- >> i don't know if my parents are involved. i think if they are, then they should come clean. >> reporter: cassie says this is tearing her family apart, and it's not easy watching police question her brother and gabby after a 911 call that recorded their fight. >> definitely painful to see everybody just be upset.
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it was pretty typical of them to argue and try and take space from each other but people saying they saw public domestic violence, i've never seen anything like that from either of them. >> reporter: in that dr. phil interview you hear the parents and stepparents talk about how they called and texted laundrie's parents multiple times when they first started getting concerned about gabby. they said they never received any calls in return. in fact, when they filed a missing person's report, they said they thought that both gabby and brian were missing. it was after they filed that report that they learned gabby's van was at the laundrie home here in north port, florida. for their part, the attorney for brian laundrie's parents say they do not know where brian is. jake? >> leyla santiago, thanks. turning to our earth matters series. that massive oil spill along california's southern coast, well, it may have started earlier than first thought. the energy company behind the
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leak says it first detected a problem saturday but documents show sightings were reported to authorities on friday. as for the cause, right now the leading theory is the anchor of a passing ship struck the pipeline leaving more than 100,000 gallons of crude oil to spew into the ocean putting wildlife and beach visitors in danger. cnn's sara sidner is in huntington beach, california, where cleaning up all that oil moves at a painstakingly thorough pace. >> reporter: we have now learned the company that owns the pipeline responsible for the california oil spill says it did not detect a leak until the day after residents reported smelling strong fumes. >> we were not aware of anything friday night. >> reporter: the revelations raising questions about its ability to detect spills. officials upped the maximum amount of potential crude oil that's gushed out from 126,000 gallons to 144,000. >> the impact to the environment is going to last years.
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potentially even decades. >> reporter: water quality scientists are sick and tired of excuses for oil spills. >> these spills have occurred for as long as oil extraction has happened. and despite advances in technology, despite new regulations, this industry continues to skirt those regulations, ignore regulations and continues to pollute. >> reporter: the suffering from the oil spill crippling birds. their feathers gummed up with the tar-like toxic crude oil. it may be weeks before we know the impact on other animals whose habitat has been contaminated. as for people, they are still using the beaches but noticing tar balls and ribbons of dark, sticky muck. they are trying to clean it up, but there's a lot of work to do. and we still don't know the extent of exactly just how much oil has been spilled. but the damage is done. not just to wildlife but the tourism business. out on the water. >> any kind of oil that you see,
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it's usually a big clump. it's usually a dark spot. >> reporter: captain pegg makes his living chartering boats. all rides are canceled for now. how is this affecting business? >> well, it's affecting business because nobody can leave the harbor. >> for how long? >> they say two to three weeks. minimum. >> reporter: meantime, amplify is facing increased scrutiny created four years ago out of the bankruptcy of another small company. federal regulators found 125 noncompliance incidents over 11 years by amplify's subsidiary responsible for the upkeep of the pipeline. government and court records show. >> we have examined more than 8,000 feet of pipe. >> reporter: amplify indicated it was sending divers down find the source of the leak. that did not sit well with orange county's district attorney. >> if that is not done independently, that is a travesty. the company should not be responsible for leading its own investigation.
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>> reporter: there has been an update to that. they are saying they hired contractors as they normally do to send the divers down. we should also mention it's a bit jarring here on some california beaches to see just how close these oil platforms are. you can see one over each of my shoulders here in huntington beach. this spill happened about 4 1/2 miles out from the shore here. we understand that there's a 13-inch gash in one of those pipelines. and that the pipeline which is about 4,000 feet long was moved about 105 feet. the company floated the idea that maybe this was caused potentially, they are still investigating, though, by a ship's anchor. >> sara sidner, thank you. our next guest is monica lewinsky who is now sharing her story as part of a new tv series and examining the so-called cancel culture. stay with us. behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger.
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in our politics lead, a new look at a scandal. it's been more than 20 years since president bill clinton was acquitted on charges he committed perjury and obstruction. now a new story follows the three women caught in the middle and brutally in the court of public opinion. >> monica, it always comes back to what's best for him. >> no, linda, it's me. this is for me. and all you have to do is say that you've never seen the president behave inappropriately with anyone because that is 100% the truth. >> i need to think about it. >> you keep saying that.
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you have thought about it. >> i know. >> linda, please. please, this is my real life we're talking about. and i'm scared. >> joining us, the real monica lewinsky, not who you saw depicting her there. monica serves as a producer on the series and is producing a new documentary on hbo max. warner media cousin of ours here at cnn. it's called "15 minutes of shame." i want to start with that documentary if we can, monica, which i watched and it's really very powerful. and it's also kind of very relevant right now because it focuses on the role that social media plays in ruining people's lives, often unfairly. as you see facebook in the news and reports that its leaders knew about the danger instagram poses on teenagers and went ahead with the algorithm anyway, you talk about this in the documentary about what needs to happen with social media to protect people. do you have any ideas about what
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you think should happen with social media companies in the u.s. so they are serving more of a good and less of a, you know, a service to a mob? >> well, i have a laundry list of ideas. people who know me well know i'm constantly coming up with ideas, whether or not they're good or bad, i don't know. but i think that sort of more importantly what we've seen kind of from yesterday and i think it's worth mentioning that frances haugen, in testifying, how brave she was because, in part, what our dock is looking at is this online behavior that happens and women and people from marginalized communities are torn apart way more online. so to come forward as a whistleblower in that sense is very brave. and i think that what she was also talking about and really showcasing, too, with the algorithm and the focus on the outrage, you know, where the
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dock comes into all of this, too if you think about the stonings that happened way back when. the stone that you're picking up and throwing in the firestorm of outrage is usually and often is public humiliation and shame. that's how we get angry. there are other ways we do it, too, but that's where, you know, this all blends together. but to sort of answer your question more directly, i absolutely think that all of the social media companies, even though they are trying, they can definitely do better. and they need to do better. >> you take a look at what is often called cancel culture. the idea of trying to cancel somebody. you take a sociopolitical look at what that means. there's a woman in the doc who very interestingly says that cancel cult ure is not the righ term for it. i think that's something you also agree with. >> yeah, for me when you look under the hood of cancel culture, you really come to see and understand that we are
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talking about muriad behaviors and consequences and what can happen if we start to call everything cancel culture is that we're losing the nuance and the importance. if you think about in some ways we call it shaming for change in the doc so if you think about things like black lives matter or me too that there are ways that public shaming can help shape sort of social behavior in important ways. so i just think that as a society, we need to kind of carve out what are we talking about, and what are the punishments that we're meting out. who is the one to do that and stop really, i think, using the umbrella term is creating a social chaos. >> yeah, a guy who sexually harasses women, he's not being canceled. it's accountability. >> exactly. exactly. you know, roxanne gate calls it as you just mentioned, she calls
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it consequence culture and kara swisher calls it accountability culture. and i think that those distinctions are very important. we like to have a catch-all phrase for everything in society, but that doesn't work well here. in my opinion. >> yeah, and in your doc, you tell the story, the true-life story about emmanuel cafferty. he was a utility worker in this was the guy, people might remember, this was a year ago, he has a twitch. he says he does this with his hand, and i don't know if you can see me, monica. someone took a picture and thought he was making a white power symbol and he was driving a san diego gas & electric truck, and it was put on social media, and sdg and e fired him and it's clear the guy got a bum rap and even the guy who took the tweet to begin with admitted
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that he might have misunderstood that this mexican-american was not a white supremacist. the company -- san diego gas and electric has a new chairman, kevin sagara. >> oh, i didn't know that. >> should kevin re-hire mr. rafferty? >> i think that would be great. i mean, it's -- i think that's what emanuel, if that's what emanuel would feel best about. i was really lucky had a zoom a couple of weeks ago with the targets that were in the doc, and this has been incredibly challenging for him, and people will see when they watch the documentary that these are stories, you know, stories of people that they may have heard the story before, and they will come to learn really surprising aspects of what actually happened and who were these people the minute they made a decision or became public people and i think that's one of the things that is very important about what they're trying to do
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with a doc, and it's a 90-minute doc ask we're aiming to start a conversation around these kinds of things and looking at how do we get here, and i don't think i can swear on cnn, but where the [ bleep ] are we going? >> stay right with us, monica. i have more questions for you. you are allowed to swear on cnn. including episodes tonight. stay with us.
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baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? and we are back with monica lewinsky, who in addition to being the producer of a new hbo max documentary called "50 minutes of shame" is also the producer of "impeachment,
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american kcrime story." yes, i have to disclose, full disclosure of tonight's episode our g-rated date from 1997. >> our one date. >> from 1997 was portrayed by an actor way better looking than me now or then. >> oh! >> you're a producer on this project, and you show an honest and sometimes unglamorous version of yourself. why was that important to you? >> i felt that i shouldn't get a pass as a producer. i think, first of all, i shouldn't get a pass in general. you know, it's important to take responsibility for mistakes, and i've worked hard to work through those, but in particular with the show, there are so many people who have worked hard on the show and it was important to me that the credibility of the show be there, and i felt that if i was sort of smoothing over and photoshopping essentially my history in that way that it wasn't right and wouldn't be
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fair to everybody. >> the series does not portray you as a victim to bill clinton. it portrays you as a victim of the entire scandal asknd the ke starr and the media. he is depicted arguably for the first time in mass media as something of a predator. >> yeah. >> he was 49 years old at the time. you were 22. >> yeah. >> you worked for him and he was the most powerful person in the universe. what did you make of that performance by clive owen and that decision? >> right. i think we're seeing aspects with clive's performance. i think we're seeing aspects of bill that we haven't seen before, and i think that it's -- certainly, it wasn't considered a victim back then, and i dance around the victim language a lot, but i think what's really important to remember in today's world is that we never should have even gotten to a place where consent was a question. so it was wholly inappropriate
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as the most powerful man, my boss, 49 years old. i was 22, literally just out of college, and i think that the power differentials there are something that i couldn't ever fathom consequences at 22 they understand, obviously, so differently at 48. >> you have made conscious ch choices about when and how to talk about this period of your life. why did this project get the green light when you turned down owe many others? >> i -- actually, i do make these decisions. i don't want make them lightly. i think a lot about the fact of how it impacts my mental state, how it impacts other people, my family included, other people's families for these things, and i think that at this point we were at a kind of a social change, in a way, the social landscape was changing with how we were looking at so many different
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issues that had happened that were now ready and important, but also -- sorry -- i forget what i was trying to say, but i think the other part of it, too, is also it's not only just the social landscape is changing, but also how the internet has evolved and when it's meant to have stories break and be on the internet and the harassment that people who didn't make mistakes like i did endured day after day. >> monica lewinsky, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> you know we're fans of yours here. our coverage continues right now. ♪ ♪ happening now, a whistle-blower unleashes damning new revelations about facebook during a fiery congressional hearing claiming the company misleads the company, harms children and weakens democracy. the social media giant drawing scorn from lawmakers in both parties. president biden hitting the road