tv CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell CNN October 14, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. hello, everyone, thanks for joining us on "newsroom." i'm alisyn camerota. >> i'm victor blackwell. we're beginning with the breaking news into the investigation of the january 6th capitol attack. the house select committee just announced they will move to hold former trump advisor steve bannon in criminal contempt for refusing to comply with his subpoena. >> bannon was scheduled to testify today, but his lawyer told the committee that bannon would not provide testimony or
documents until the committee reaches an agreement with former president trump over executive privilege or until a court weighs in. we know president trump has been usuallying his loyalists to ignore the committee's subpoenas. cnn congressional correspondent ryan nobles joins us from capitol hill with this breaking news. what happens now, ryan? >> reporter: well, alisyn and victor, this is the committee making good on their promise that if steve bannon and others did not comply with their subpoena request, that they would move forward with a criminal contempt referral so the committee is scheduled to meet next tuesday. that's where they will formally vote out this contempt referral. then the entire house of representatives will have to vote on it and then it gets referred to the justice department to take action, and what bennie thompson, the chairman of the select committee made clear, in his statement when he announced the committee's decision to move forward in this respect, is that they are not going to allow their potential targets that they're looking for information from to get away with just ignoring the committee's
request, specifically when the committee asks them through subpoena, and this is what he said. "the select committee will not tolerate defiance of our subpoenas. so we must move forward with proceedings to refer mr. bannon for criminal contempt. i've notified the select committee that we'll convene for a business meeting tuesday evening to vote on adopting a contempt report." and obvious bannon's defiance has been bold and public. he said he does not believe he should be compelled to comply with this subpoena because he's working with the former president, donald trump, to defend executive privilege, but that claim is pretty weak, especially when you consider that bannon was not any part of the executive branch where much of the information that the select committee is looking for comes from. that period of time between the election on november 3rd and then of course the events of january 6th. so, the committee, as they promised, not messing around, moving forward with this criminal contempt almost
immediately after bannon defied their subpoena. alisyn and victor. >> ryan, i also understand that you're getting information about the other associates who had been subpoenaed, mark meadows, kash patel. >> reporter: that's right. remember, there were four individuals what were scheduled for depositions this week. bannon, of course, perhaps the most high-profile but also mark meadows, the former chief of staff, dan scavino, the deputy chief of staff and kash patel who was at the pentagon on january 6th. the committee treating them much differently. in terms of meadows and patel, i'm told their depositions have been given a short postponement because those two are engaging with the committee. we don't know what that level of engagement is, but they are at least talking to the committee and they're trying to find some common ground where they can get the information they're looking for. as for dan scavino, his is a different situation because as you'll remember, we broke the news that they were having a difficult time serving him with
a subpoena. they were only able to serve that subpoena last friday so because of that delay with the subpoena, they've also delayed the date of his deposition. now, it's not clear when these depositions have been postponed to, but keep in mind, even though the committee has given them this grace, they have also said that they're not going to fool around. this is kind of the situation they ran into with jeffery clarke, the former doj official whom they subpoenaed yesterday. they were in negotiations with clark to come to an agreement. when he didn't comply, that's when they slapped the subpoena on. so the postponements are short for now but they could become criminal contempt down the road if they don't find areas to agree on finding -- getting the information they're looking for. >> all right, ryan nobles for us an capitol hill with the breaking news. thank you. let's bring in now kim wehle, a law professor at the university of baltimore. kim, welcome back. let's start here with just your reaction to the breaking news, the chairman, vice chair, had promised they would make good on
an effort to hold these people accountable if they did not comply. they've now started the process of doing it. >> well, it's absolutely vital that they take this step. we saw during the trump administration the power of congress to subpoena information on behalf of the american people really watered down. that was one of the first charges in the first impeachment trial was obstruction of congress by former president trump. i think in this moment, the game is around delay, because we have a midterm coming up in about a year. some people will argue that just by virtue of gerrymandering and response to the new census numbers that the house could go back to republicans and once that happens, the wheels of the january 6th commission will probably stall. i think if this gets to court, the argument that steve bannon can invoke executive privilege on behalf or that the former president could is weak at best.
in 2014, the united states congress passed a statute saying that it's the incumbent president, that would be joe biden, who has the ultimate say on executive privilege claims, not former presidents, so unless donald trump could win an argument that that statute itself was unconstitutional, i think this is going to see the light of day if there is time through the court system to get it done prior to the midterms. >> but professor, just so i understand, the committee has subpoena power, as you say, but the enforcement. i mean, it sounds like, for decades, this has not been enforced effectively. so, does this have teeth? >> yeah, it absolutely does, and i think part of it, for decades, it hasn't needed to be enforced. that is, most of the time, i mean, i worked on the white water investigation and the grand jury subpoenaed bill clinton and he worked out a deal, even a sitting president. so, what we've seen in the past few years is just complete
thumbing the nose, people's nose at congress's subpoena power and saying, listen, we're not even going to work something out. that's why we are in this moment, but the criminal statute does exist. it's the biggest weight of the three. there could have been a civil action filed, congress has inherent power to call the sergeant-at-arms to get people to appear. the criminal action is the big one. it carries up to a year in prison. that would be channing phillips, the acting attorney -- u.s. attorney for the district of columbia that would make that call, although, of course, it would be done in conjunction with merrick garland and i should also add, listen, it's unclear if executive privilege has this crime/fraud exception attached to it that does attach to attorney-client privilege but if there are acts in here or information relating to potential crimes, and you know, inciting an insurrection is a crime, interfering with the counting of electoral college votes is a crime, then that -- all bets could be off for donald
trump. that is -- that kind of an exception could eclipse any claim of executive privilege because the supreme court has held that the american people get to know what's going on when it comes to crimes in the white house, and we saw this with president nixon. >> we should also point out here that although the attorney for bannon claims this attorney-client privilege, steve bannon is not an attorney. so, that may not be applicable here at all. but let's move forward on looking down the line here. let's say that the committee recommends this criminal contempt referral, the house sends it to doj, and merrick garland pursues this case. if even steve bannon is convicted, that still does not guarantee that the committee will get the deposition, will get the documents that they're looking for, does it? >> no. and the way that would be enforced is steve bannon would have to decide whether to defy the court. because it's essentially getting a court order, a criminal contempt order, he would go to
jail and sit in jail until he decided to testify. we saw this in the white water investigation with susan mcdougal and she wouldn't respond to ken starr's subpoena, and she served, i think, 18 months in prison for noncompliance. but the u.s. attorney would probably impanel a grand jury to make, i think, a pretty short investigation as to whether steve bannon was actually in defiance of a lawful subpoena out of the committee, and then would charge him and then there would have to be a trial. so yes, this takes some time, and as i said, i think this is -- this is a ploy to run out the clock so that it just -- there isn't any time to finish this process before the midterms and then the democrats conceivably could lose their majority and this would all go by the wayside, which would be a tragedy for a democracy itself and the american people, frankly. >> just very quickly, isn't that what might happen here? i mean, once something gets into the court system, isn't it possible that it's slow rolled, not intentionally, but just, you know, court cases take a long
time. >> absolutely. i mean, that's a year from now. but you know, the judges do know how to make things go quickly. it's going to depend on what judge gets this case, and whether they're willing to move swiftly and how much the bannon team can do to slow things down. he has constitutional rights when it comes to criminal prosecution, so absolutely, alisyn, it could be a win in that regard, and this is why i've said many, many times, the fate of american democracy is not about the next presidential election. it's about the midterms. and people should vote for those that are willing to not tolerate insurrections and the overthrow of the constitution itself. that is republicans and democrats who object to the lie that this was an invalid election and are willing to hold hands for democracy going forward. >> kim wehle, great to talk to you. thanks for walking us through all this breaking news. >> thank you for having me, alisyn. >> thanks, professor. millions more americans may be on the verge of becoming eligible for the next covid shot. the fda advisors are meeting
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more americans to get one of the vaccines as just over half of the u.s. population is fully vaccinated. cnn's nick watt is with us now. so tell us about the fda meeting and when we can expect the vote. >> reporter: well, victor, we were expecting a vote probably sometime after 4:00, but i don't know. they've been getting through the agenda pretty efficiently, so it might be sooner. lots of deep, detailed questioning so far. they've heard from representatives from moderna who say, listen, our vaccine holds up pretty well, but a booster is still beneficial, particularly with delta around. they also heard from israeli officials who rolled out boosters far, wide and early and those israeli officials say so far, safe and effective. it is going very well. >> we can see you and hear you very well. >> reporter: fda vaccine advisors meeting online for much of today, expected to vote very soon on moderna vaccine booster shots. >> the vaccine effectiveness
against mild and moderate disease does appear to wane over time for the different vaccines. >> reporter: moderna is seeking something similar already authorized for pfizer, boosters for the over 65s, all adults at high risk of severe disease, and adults whose institutional or occupational exposure puts them at high risk of infection. >> and what about the dose? >> reporter: third moderna shots would be half the dose of the first and second. the same advisors meet tomorrow to talk second shots of johnson & johnson, which could be a more complex discussion. the cdc would then need to sign off. some kwwish all this went furth. >> a lot of people don't want to get sick. they don't want to get long haul covid or missing work or potentially infecting their family so give everybody the option to get that booster dose, i think, should actually be the recommendation. >> reporter: kyrie irving, already benched by the brooklyn nets, finally confirmed.
>> i chose to be unvaccinated and that was my choice. and i would ask y'all just to respect that choice. this is not a political thing here. this is not about the nba. it's not about any organization. it's literally about my life and what i'm choosing to do s. >> reporter: but it's really not just about your life. listen to this doctor in idaho. >> and sadly, today, i'm here to tell you that we've lost the war, that covid is here to stay. and the reason it is here to stay is because we cannot vaccinate enough of the public to fully eradicate the disease. >> reporter: hence, vaccine mandates. 40% of tsa employees still haven't gotten the shot. they have until just before the busy thanksgiving weekend. to be fully vaccinated. >> we are building contingency plans for if we do have staffing shortages as a result of this but i hope to avoid that. >> reporter: for cops in chicago, the deadline is midnight tonight. their union doesn't like it. >> it's safe to say the city of chicago will have a police force
at 50% or less for this weekend coming up. >> reporter: big picture, joe biden's advisors claim this. >> thanks to the president's leadership on vaccination requirements we continue to make important progress. >> reporter: on average, fewer than a quarter million americans are now getting their first shot every day. that's down another 18% from just last week. now, a new nih study says that mixing and matching vaccine brands between your first doses and your booster is safe and effective, but today, the surgeon general, little bit of caution. he said, let's just wait. the fda advisors are going to be talking about that. let's see what they say. and news just in. fda advisors are going to meet next month to discuss that very promising antiviral pill that could be used to treat covid-19. guys? >> all right, a lot on their agenda. nick watt, thank you. and president biden just touted the progress his
administration is claiming they've made against the virus. they say that both daily cases and hospitalizations are down across the country. >> cnn's chief white house correspondent kaitlan collins joins us now. kaitlan, what was the president's message to the public about this? >> reporter: he's really eager to focus on the good numbers coming out of the pandemic, of course, some of those that nick just reviewed there as we are looking at what the national landscape really looks like and questions about whether or not this is the final surge that they're going to see in the united states. but of course, alisyn and victor, we know there are some bad numbers there are also stig plaguing this white house when it comes to the pandemic and chief among them is that number, 66 million people who are eligible to get the vaccine that have still not yet chosen to do so and so for part of this, president biden was talking about something that, of course, we know is a reversal on a position he held early on when he took office, which is a vaccine requirement for companies and of course that is something the labor department is working on. they're hoping private companies will just choose on their own to put those mandates in place, but president biden was talking about what this looks like and
the effect that it has on the nation. >> the plan i laid out in september is working. we're headed in the right direction. we have critical work to do but we can't let up now. my team and i are doing everything we can, but i'm calling on more businesses to step up. i'm calling on more parents to get their children vaccinated when they are eligible. and i'm asking everyone, everyone who hasn't gotten vaccinated, please get vaccinated. >> reporter: and one thing to note on that, remember in september, the president had announced that the labor department was going to draft that emergency ruling that said companies that had a hundred or more employees, private companies, had to either get them vaccinated or test them on a weekly basis. that is a review of that rule is being conducted right now. it hasn't actually been published to the federal register yet so it's not actually in effect yet but the white house is hoping that, of course, because companies know it is coming down the pipeline,
they'll go ahead and already start implementing those requirements. >> kaitlan, you also have new reporting, i understand, about the fda and the white house's vetting process for the next potential commissioner. >> reporter: yeah, it's been several months, of course, since biden took office and still there has been no name coming from this white house on a permanent fda commissioner which, of course, is a critical role and we've seen former commissioners that held that title and heard from people within the agency that say they do feel like they need permanent leadership at the helm because right now it is an acting admissioner over at the fda, dr. janet woodcock but she is someone the white house did not believe could ultimately get confirmed by senators on capitol hill if she was picked for the job but we are told the president is narrowing his selection of people who were up for this job because he does have a deadline facing him of mid-november so one name that has been surfaced at the white house is closely vetting at this time is dr. rob kalif, served as the fda commissioner previously for a short period of time under
the obama administration, and he is now a name that has surfaced once again as they have struggled to find someone who is not only qualified for this job, that they want in this role but can also win the support of enough senators to get confirmed for this position, so we may see movement on that soon but the white house says a final decision has not been made on an fda commissioner. >> kaitlan collins, thank you very much for all that. we have dr. ali khan, the dean at the university of nebraska medical center's college of public health. always great to see you. for people who can't keep track of the merits of moderna versus pfizer versus j&j, when do you need a booster, which ones are being authorized, at some point soon, do you think that there will be a mixing and matching of these different vaccines? >> oh, absolutely. and what fda is doing is it's actually catching up to policy, alisyn. catching up to practice. so, the policy is catching up to
practice. clinicians already are working with people across the u.s. to make sure that they get their boosters, including if they had moderna initially or if they had j&j, so over the next couple days, we'll clean this all up, harmonize all of these various recommendations and have a single consistent policy. >> speaking of harmonizing, the last time the fda went through this process of approving a booster for pfizer, there were resignations and disagreements and reversals. what are you expecting as they look through the steps of moderna and j&j, because the request for moderna is narrower here for specific populations to get the booster. >> correct. and it's consistent with what eventually happened with pfizer. it's because there isn't a whole lot of data suggesting that moderna loses a lot of its efficacy, and so they actually have even gone with half a dose. for j&j, my expectation is that while j&j may be approved for a second dose, the fda also will say that your second dose should
be with an mrna vaccine. >> doctor, i wanted to ask you about something that republican congressman jim jordan floated this week on twitter. he thinks that his state of ohio should ban all vaccine mandates, meaning, all of the vaccines, that all of us got as children in order to go to public school. i'm talking measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, polio, so that we didn't die or, i guess, lose the function of our limbs. he wants them to get rid of all of those mandates. why? i guess. and what would happen if that were to go into effect? >> i can't answer the why. but this is a victory to try to deny that an initial failed response has led to over 750,000 dead americans. we've heard versions of this with, it's no worse than the flu, 98%, 99% of people survive with this and why stop at
vaccines? why should we not allow people to drink and drive? why should we have child car seat requirements? why stop there if we're going to talk about undermining public health. and this is a big concern for me. yes, covid is going to be deadly for americans, but if we undermine public health, this is going to be even deadlier for americans long-term. >> you know, there's a doctor from idaho who we have coming up in the next hour who says that effectively we've lost the war against covid. and now we are destined, because there aren't enough people who have gotten vaccinated, to end this disease that we are destined to live this endemic of covid-19. what does that look like? is this an annual ebb and deadly flow of surges of new cases? >> so, victor, i think we should be clear. idaho has lost the war. we see -- we see what freedom looks like in idaho.
so, no hospital beds. if you're going into the hospital with or without covid, you're more likely to die. you have to leave the state to die. and healthcare workers are routinely harassed every day by patients and families. so, that's what it looks like in idaho, because they don't want to get vaccinated, and they don't want to wear masks. so, until we get 68 million people vaccinated, that's what we will see happening across the u.s., and you're absolutely spot on. all of these other diseases, respiratory diseases cause surges and waves and we should expect to see this also with covid unless we get this under control. >> all right, dr. ali khan, we're out of time. do you have a mask you want to show us? >> i have a mask. can you see that? >> #getvaccinated. >> okay. >> there you go. get vaccinated, america. >> okay. mask on and get vaccinated. i like the double message. dr. khan, thank you very much. >> thanks, doctor. >> always a pleasure. stay safe. >> you too. >> all right. okay, as the virginia
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buy today. they say that it's part of their largest ever investment in the state. now, the gop candidate, glenn youngkin, has been walking a really fine line between major trump supporters and independent voters. youngkin stayed away from a trump-backed rally yesterday where the former president called in but this morning, terry mcauliffe blasted the event. he claims that attendees pledged allegiance to a flag that was allegedly flown at the january 6th trump rally just before the capitol riot. >> people died. law enforcement died. and they use a flag that they want to destroy, the flag of the symbol of democracy, they were pledging allegiance to a flag that they wanted to use to destroy our democracy. >> let me ask you. >> glenn youngkin is unfit to be governor. he needs to come out today and say it was wrong and i want him to come out and say january 6th insurrection was wrong. >> joining me now is jamie harrison, chair of the
democratic national committee. mr. chairman, good to see you. first, you've been spending a lot of money in virginia. are you nervous about the virginia governor's race? >> well, we spent money in california. we spent money in new jersey. we're spending money in virginia because bottom line is this. we need to make sure that these states remain in the democratic column so that we can continue to deliver for the people who live in those communities. and so, it's really, really important. terry mcauliffe has a proven record of being able to deliver for the people of virginia and so we want to make sure that all of the voters in that state know what that record is and they also understand the trump acolyte they have in glenn youngkin and how dangerous he will be if he's given the keys to be the governor of the next -- the next governor of the great state of -- the commonwealth of virginia. >> so, you cast him as a trump acolyte, and i have talked about how he's trying to walk this fine line. earlier in the race, he was backing some of the big lie, and
now he's trying to keep the moderates happy and those in the trump fold. but if he is as much of a trump acolyte as you say he is, why isn't terry mcauliffe walking away with this? less than a year ago, president biden beat former president trump by ten points, the largest victory for a democrat since 1944 in virginia. if he's a trump acolyte, this shouldn't be a concern, should it? >> well, listen, every race you have to walk in. you can't take anything for granted in politics. you have to go in and make your case to the voters in the state. and youngkin has been able to bankroll his campaign and so he's been able to get out a message and try to be moderate on television, but in -- behind closed doors, we hear that he wants to get rid of a woman's right to choose how to control her own body. we know that he wants to get rid of protections for voting rights. he's already putting out messages that, you know, the machines may -- something may be wrong with the machines.
every aspect of donald trump, this is a guy who mimics that. and donald trump even has said that when -- if youngkin's elected governor, he's going to do all the things that we want a governor to do. well, we know that donald trump said that in the same breath as he said that the 2020 election was a big lie. so, what is it? are you for trump or are you against trump? we know who he is. >> mr. chairman, you have said donald trump more than you have said glenn youngkin, and glenn youngkin more than you have said terry mcauliffe here. let me focus on the candidate, terry mcauliffe. he says the problem for virginia voters, the frustration for democrats is what's happening in washington, and the infighting and the stall of the two major bills, the infrastructure bill and the social safety net bill. how much is what's happening in washington impacting, deflating potentially the votes that you need to get out to get terry mcauliffe back into the governor's office? >> well, i can tell you, at the end of the day, we're going to get the votes out to get terry
mcauliffe and mark herring and then the democrats in the legislature re-elected. i know that we're going to be able to do that. and listen, i know, as my days working as the florida in the whip's office, the legislating process, the sausage-making process on capitol hill ain't always pretty. sometimes it's convoluted. sometimes it's a little difficult and hard. but at the end of the day, we're going to get a bill passed that delivers for the american people and delivers for the folks in virginia. >> why should democrats believe that? because every democrat we have had on this show has said, we're going to get this done. we're going to pass both bills. you know what else all democrats came on this show and said we're going to pass? voting reform. democrats also came on this show and said, we're going to pass police reform. and you haven't done that either. so, for the people who voted you into the white house, the majorities in both chambers, why should they believe this promise when you didn't come through on the other two?
>> didn't we come through with the american rescue plan? a plan that has cut child poverty -- 3 million kids who are not in poverty right now because of that. >> it is one out of six. >> but listen -- >> is one out of six a record you want to take back to the voters in 2022? >> it's not one out of six. think of how large that bill was and how much it did in order to help the american people. you can't just say, it's one thing that we're ticking off the list. it was significant in terms of securing the economy of this country, getting shots back -- shots in the arms of folks who were scared of whether or not they were going to get vaccinations when we inherited the white house from the trump administration. >> yes. you did get that done. >> actually delivered and secured for the american people. it even funded police forces that they -- >> i get that. mr. chairman, i get you want us to focus on the one bill you got passed. the question is why should voters believe -- >> it was one heck of a bill because it was significant. >> still quantitatively, it is
one bill. the question is -- >> no, no, it's about the impact. it's not about one bill. one bill to make a post office. the post office is a bill that passes the house all the time. >> i get it. >> that is not as significant as the american rescue plan. >> all right, so, let's talk about significance. let's talk about what's in these bills because obviously, the democratic party is not making the sale on the message. the latest cnn polling shows that only 25% of the respondents said that these bills would help them personally. 32% say they would be worse off if they're passed. 43% say about the same. when it comes down to the demographics that got the democrats back into power in all three elements here, the white house and both chambers of congress, you look at independent women. six out of ten say that it wouldn't help them personally. nearly 60% of blacks. 54% of people under 35. half of latinos, half of moderates. what's the disconnect? you listed off all the things accomplished in the rescue plan.
is there a challenge, a problem that the party is having selling this massive legislation that they're trying to get passed to the people who you need if you want to maintain the majorities in 2022? >> well, i know recently, a poll that you guys had at cnn showed how popular the plan was with the american people. so, this is the thing. bottom line is this. we got to get this done. we have to deliver for the american people because the things that are in this plan, from climate change to increasing new jobs to having child care to expanding medicaid and medicare, are all popular with the american people. and then it's going to be our job, once we get this done, making sure that the people understand who actually passed this and who actually worked for them and who sat on the sidelines trying to gum up the works. and that's the real contrast in this race. you got one party that is fighting for the american people each and every day, and yes, we will debate about it and we will
argue about it and argue about the size and the scope, but we are at least trying to do stuff to improve the lives of the american people. the republicans just don't give a damn. they aren't doing anything. they tried to destroy the economy by bringing down the -- not even voting for the debt ceiling increase. when democrats have done it time and time again. so, one party fighting for folks and delivering. >> got it. >> one party sitting on the sidelines. >> jamie harrison, always good to see you, sir. thank you. >> always good. >> that was lively. >> yeah. >> spicy, as my son would say. >> spicy. i like that. we'll go with that. >> that was great. >> all right. all right, now to this shocking story. there was a bow and arrow attack that left five people dead in norway. it appears to be an act of terror. what we know about the suspect and the motive next. all right, here's what else to watch.
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randomly shooting people with a bow and arrow last night. authorities now say the attack was terrorism. >> at first, witnesses thought they were watching a police exercise until employees began crawling out of the store and were told to take cover. >> translator: i saw a man walking with an arrow in his back. >> a man with an arrow in his back? >> translator: yes, that was the off-duty officer who had been in there. and he told me to head home. he came from here, and he stood there. and i had to walk here. so, i had to walk in the direction that the guy came from. that was very heavy. >> cnn's melissa bell is in oslo for us. that's scary. what do we know about the suspect and the motive? >> reporter: well, we've headed out of oslo to kongsberg and this is the very supermarket where that rampage began just after 6:00 p.m. local time. that man, a suspect we now know a great deal more about, a
37-year-old man, espen anderson. we know he is a danish national who grew up in norway, also that he had been known to police services for his radicalization before the events of yesterday. the attack began here. an unarmed police officer wounded and from here, he headed off for what lasted more than half an hour with that bow and arrow. five dead, as you say, in what the country's now saying was a terror attack. the very latest, allysonen, is that we've been hearing from the prosecutor. he was due at his first trial, his arraignment trial. in fact, we're hearing from the prosecutor that he may not appear at all since it is a psychiatric evaluation that is going on this evening in order to allow authorities to decide whether it is in hospital that he belongs, but here, for the time being, an extremely shocked community. i cannot tell you just how quiet and sleepy this very suburban town is. exactly the kind of place you really wouldn't expect this sort of thing to happen and people keep coming by to have a look for themselves to say they simply can't believe it happened
here. >> it turns out that violence can happen anywhere. melissa bell, thank you very much for that update. so, politicians typically encourage their supporters to vote, okay? that's usually how the strategy works. but not former president donald trump. >> oh, no. >> he's telling republicans not to vote and, well, they might just listen. sustainability is essential to creating a better tomorrow. that's why cisco is committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2040. and we believe our smart buildings solutions can help. providing power to reduce emissions, intelligence to eliminate waste, and collaboration tools that help the workplace and the planet. between meeting human needs and a sustainable future, there's a bridge. cisco, the bridge to possible. when you're looking for answers, it's good to have help. because the right information, at the right time, may make all the difference. at humana, we know that's especially true when
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last night. quote, if we don't solve the presidential election fraud of 2020, which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented, republicans will not be voting in '22 or '24. it's the single most important thing for republicans to do. stan herndon is a political analyst, national political reporter for the "new york times." sted, i just moved here from georgia. this didn't really work out for republicans when the former president tried to decrease confidence in mail-in voting there among republicans. >> i mean, yeah, this is exactly what happened in georgia. we were down there for those races. and the central question was not whether democrats were going to come out. we knew that was going to be true. the question was whether republicans, because they had the same type of mixed messaging, you had the republican candidates down in georgia encouraging people, pleading for them to come out and vote early. then you had a president so
focused on his own grievances from the 2020 election that he had foregone the party's own goals in order to win that one. he's doing this again, but i think it's important for us to see the larger picture here. it is a bad strategy for the kind of electoral gang, for winning the 2022 midterms for 2024. but this is the very tenet that shaped democracy, formed the rules itself. he is arranging his party around those goals, and that can be just as important. >> he's wanting to be on the ballot for 2024, too, right? >> it sounds like it, all signs point to that. if you're assigning loyalists, maybe you don't need republicans to turn out to vote since it's not about actual votes, since we know donald trump lost by 7 million of thoese. maybe he doesn't think he needs
actual real voters to vote because they're trying to rig the game. but when he puts out a statement likes this, what happens inside kevin mccarthy's head? >> this is the tough spot for the republican leaders in congress, right? they are the ones contending with this, but they are not in a position of strength with donald trump. i i was at that rally in virginia last night where the president called in to a rally that started off with folks pledging allegiance to a flag that was brought to the capitol on january 6. the energy of the party, the enthusiasm of the party is still with that base. and so while i'm sure that kevin mccarthys, the mitch mcconnells, the republican kind of apparatus looks at that statement and groans, they also know they need donald trump and that kind of energy to be able to bring folks out. what binds republicans together is different than what binds democrats together. they have a shared agreement on the enemy, they have the shared agreement on democrats being a non-equal partner in the kind of
democracy experiment. that is what is motivating folks, not that necessarily affirmative political message. it is a negative, more partisan message, but it still binds people and still brings them to the ballot box. >> let me take you back to georgia and herschel walker. his fundraiser was canceled last night because a host featured a swastika made of syringes on her profile. walker has said he is against bigotry of any kind. this is what the republican leadership is concerned about, making mistakes just like this. >> this is the exact reason when you talk to kind of the professional republican class, there is uneasiness about herschel walker as a candidate. but the reason herschel walker has become the kind of dominant republican candidate in that race is purely because of donald trump. and that is where he found that power. i think it's also important to note the walker campaign
initially defended going to that event, saying it was not a swastika but an anti-vaccine image. that stretched beyond, i think, anyone's ability to buy that and potentially pull out. that speaks to the level of power, this side the grassroots has on the republican candidates rate now. they know that's where the energy is, so much so that something that looks so obviously like a swastika cannot be immediately denounced. it shows you what that campaign is thinking, and i think that should be illuminating to us all. >> asted herndon, always good to have your insight. thank you. >> thank you. the head of the police union warns of mass walkouts by the
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