tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN October 18, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
concern over north korea having that capability. so it's possible the north koreans could have developed that hypersonic capability all on their own. wolf. >> we'll watch it together with you. thank you very, very much. brian todd reporting and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. outfront next. breaking news. former-president donald trump tonight suing the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. trying to keep his records from becoming public. as the committee tonight warns steve bannon to comply with the subpoena or face possible charges. what are bannon and trump afraid of? plus trump spending four and a half hours under oath today in a deposition, and i am going to speak to the attorney that deposed him. new audio just into cnn of colin powell opening up to bob woodward about his health struggles. much more on what powell said and what may have been his last
interview. let's go outfront. and good evening, i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight, the breaking news. former-president trump is suing to keep his white house records secret. trump filing a lawsuit against the house january 6th committee and the national a archives, as you know, of course, is preparing to turn over a very long list of records from trump's presidency to the committee. after the biden administration refused to assert executive privilege on trump's behalf. now, trump lawyers went through it and are now specifically trying to block the release of 45 of those documents. we don't know exactly what's in them, why they don't want those out there. the suit calls the january 6th probe all in a, quote, vexatiocu illegal fishing expedition. it's an attempt by congress to get to the bottom of why trump's supporters attacked the capitol. 140 officers were injured that day. five people died in connection with what happened and we all need to know why.
but the former president has never been concerned about stopping another attack against democracy. he said the actual election day was the insurrection for god sakes. now, his lawyers argue that the committee investigating january 6th in part is, quote, attempting to damage the republic itself and the citizens of the united states. well, this is the first time we've seen a public legal dispute between a current and former president over executive privilege. no former president has ever exerted executive privilege on his own behalf after leaving office and while trump is trying to prevent this information from coming out, he was speaking today in another lawsuit and here he is. here in new york city. moments ago, he left trump tower after sitting for a four and a half hour deposition. i am going to speak with the lawyer who deposed the former president, coming up. and today's developments come on the eve of a vote tomorrow by the january 6th committee and this vote is on whether to refer trump ally steve bannon to the justice department for criminal contempt charges because he's refused to comply with the panel's subpoena deadline. bannon has said he won't testify
because of executive privilege, even though, of course, he was not working for the white house or for the executive when he prodded the president to return to washington for the january 6th rally. in a letter to bannon's attorney, cnn obtained today the committee writes that even if it was quote inclined to accept the unsupported premise, unquote, that executive privilege covers communications between bannon and trump, it continues to say bannon, quote, does not enjoy any form of absolute immunity from testifying or producing documents in response to a congressional subpoena. ryan nobles is outfront on capitol hill to begin our coverage tonight. so, ryan, there was, you know, questions would trump actually sue? and now, indeed, he has. what more are you learning about his lawsuit? >> yeah, you are right, erin. this really wasn't that big of a surprise. and the legal arguments the former president is making are also not much of a surprise. his lawyers basically making an argument on three different fronts. that the select committee should not get this information. the first being that they believe that it doesn't have a specific legislative purpose
which would be the responsibility of any congressional investigation. the second being that they believe the information is protected under executive privilege and a separation of powers even though donald trump is a former president, they still believe he enjoys that right. and then, the third aspect is that they said they just haven't had enough time to go through the documents to determine what should and should not be allowed to be in the hands of the committee. obviously, the committee feels very differently about this. they feel as though the executive privilege claim is weak, especially because the current president, joe biden, has said that he is going to allow most of this to go through. although, he'll review it on a case-by-case basis. and they do firmly believe that there is a specific legislative purpose to their investigation. so this is something they are going to fight it out in court but, of course, as we have said many times, this is to the benefit of the former president that there is going to be a lengthy court battle because there is only so much time for the committee to get their work done. most believe it needs to be done by next year's midterm elections. >> yes, and that is a crucial
point. more on that in a moment. but let me ask you, first, ryan, about steve bannon. because this vote tomorrow is -- is a crucial vote. and if they choose to refer him to the department of justice for possible criminal prosecution, that obviously is very significant. what more are you learning about this? >> yeah, erin, more than anything, this is the committee demonstrating what they have said time and time again. that they are not messing around. they set a deadline of bannon to appear before them on thursday of last week and now on tuesday of this week, just a couple of days, they are beginning the process of formally referring him for criminal contempt to the department of justice. that vote's scheduled to take place here at the capitol tomorrow night at 7:30. it will then go to the full house of representatives to be voted on before it goes to the department of justice. this could happen quickly. and this is not only a sign to steve bannon that the committee is serious about getting him to cooperate. but it's, also, a sign to all of these other individuals that they've served subpoenas to and even those that they've reached
out to to ask them to cooperate voluntarily. they are not messing around, and they'll use every power of the congress to make sure that happens. >> thank you very much ryan. now, let's go to elie honig, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. first, trump's lawsuit. you have gone through it. so, does it have a chance of succeeding? >> erin, i think this is a long shot for donald trump. he raises three primary arguments. the first one is that this is just intended to harass or annoy donald trump. that's really just name calling. there is no law behind that. this committee, obviously, is investigating for a very specific purpose. the second argument is that the committee lacks what we call a legitimate legislative purpose. meaning, the argument from donald trump is well they're not trying to pass laws here. first of all, it's not clear that they have to have that purpose. they have a certain right in congress to investigate. second of all, they may well suggest new laws. the 9/11 commission did just that when they investigated. and then finally, there is this executive privilege argument. now, trump says as a former
president he has a right to assert executive privilege. he's actually right. there is some law saying he does have some ability but what he leaves out of his papers is the fact that it's fairly clear in our law that if there is disagreement, the current president prevails. >> and that obviously would be the precedent for where we are. so now, to the point that ryan made about the timing here. um, and the fight over the house subpoena for former-white house lawyer don mcgahn. let me just give that as an example, right? during the impeachment trial, it took two years to litigate. okay. that's then ancient history. this committee may not have two years, right? i mean, as ryan was pointing out. there is the perception that it needs to be done by the midterms. maybe, democrats win and they can continue, right? but it's goking to be be a bit chaotic and then it's all over. so how long could all of this take to litigate? >> so two years is absolutely inexcusable and i hope that congress and the courts, alike, learn their lesson from the don mcgahn debacle. let me sort of break this down. the committee as ryan said,
there's nothing surprising in this brief. the committee should already have its brief three-quarters done. they are going to get a deadline soon. they should be ready to file their brief on friday. i mean, this week. and then, they need to stress to the federal district court you must expedite this. this is not an ordinary dispute. this is a time-sensitive dispute. we need a ruling from you soon. there is no reason the district court, the trial court can't rule on this within a few weeks. whoever loses is then going to take the case to the court of appeals. you have a right to do that. they can move as quickly as the judges want. as quickly as a month. i have a seen these things take six months and up. and then, whoever loses there is going to try to get it to the u.s. supreme court. again, they can move as quickly as the justices are willing to if the supreme court takes it, of course, that extends the deadline. but if they don't, then the court of appeals ruling will stand. so this could be as quick as a month or two. could be as long as six months or more. >> crucial timeline. so let me ask you also about bannon. right? the vote tomorrow about
referring him to the justice department for criminal contempt charges. so, right? they are going to go ahead, i am going to assume and go ahead and do that. what is the likelihood, though, that the committee when all of this is said and done ever hears from steve bannon? >> yeah. so ultimately, the decision about whether to charge this criminally will be merrick garland's. one important thing to note, even if they do bring a criminal charge against steve bannon and he is convicted, his punishment is he goes to prison. it doesn't force him to testify. the idea is that most people will then choose to testify. if forced with this leverage. but ultimately, this is going to be a defining moment for merrick garland. there's political pressure on him. the committee is publicly applying pressure to him. the president of the united states said he wants to see this charge. doj pushed back and said we are going to make this decision independently. however, if mairk garland takes on this fight and he should, it is going to be a tough fight but sometimes as a prosecutor, that's what you have to do. but if he does not, if he says i am he not charging this, he will
knee cap this committee. he will prevent them from compelling testimony -- >> thank you very much. so, you know, tonight, we did hear from donald trump and under oath -- well, not we but somebody did. the former president just leaving trump tower because he gave a videotaped deposition for four and a half hours and the purpose of this was to see if he could be held responsible for an alleged assault of protestors outside of the building in 2015. the demonstrators were protesting trump's anti-immigration rhetoric during the campaign. they claim trump's then head of security hit one of them in the head as a protestor tried to stop shiller from taking signs away which read trump make america racist again. outfront now is ben, he deposed the former president today, and he is the lawyer for the protestors in the case. so, ben, thanks very much. okay. so four and a half hours. and -- and you are the one leading the questioning here of the former president. did he -- >> yes. >> -- answer your questions in a satisfactory manner or not? >> well, i -- i can say that he
answered the questions. um, whether or not it was satisfactory, think we will leave up to a jury in this matter. but i can tell you that we sat down with mr. trump at approximately 10:00 this morning. he put his right hand in the air, and he took an oath to tell the truth and that's first time that's happened in -- well, since before he was elected president. and that's a really meaningful thing. >> and -- and did he -- did that -- did the gravity of that moment sink in to him, do you think? >> i won't speculate as to what was going on in his head. um, it's well known that mr. trump has given quite a number of depositions, and has testified over the years in a variety of matters. so in some respects, this is nothing new. um, but at the same time, this is the first time that this has happened. this is the first time that donald trump has been under oath, again, since taking the office of the presidency. >> so, four and a half hours is a lot of time. and so, let me just ask you what
was his demeanor like? and i know you were recording it, obviously, because it could play in front of a jury. did his demeanor change when the camera was on or off? what can you tell us? >> well, there are a number of video depositions of donald trump that are available. you can google them. they're on youtube. >> yep. >> and he was not dissimilar to the sort of -- um -- i would say behavior and mannerisms as you see in those videos. nevertheless, mr. trump did answer the questions that were asked. there were a handful of questions that we will have to seek a ruling from the court on but that is not an uncommon occurrence when you are examining someone under oath. i am an employment lawyer and i have taken many depositions of many bosses and that's essentially what this was today. i mean, this was an examination of donald trump as the employer of security guards for the trump organization and the trump campaign. and i've examined a lot of evasive bosses over the years. i have examined, frankly, a lot more challenging bosses over the years than -- than donald trump
but he came in. and i would say that he was everything you would expect mr. trump to be based on his interactions with the press and with attorneys in other matters. >> so, you are seeking punitive damages for your clients, right? which if awarded, my understanding is would be based on trump's net worth. i have watched those depositions online. and i have watched -- um -- interviews on that topic and i have asked him that question, myself. and, you know, his answers change every single time. so were you able to get a straight answer from him? how did he answer those questions about his worth? >> again, and respectfully, um, i -- and i understand that -- that -- that's something of public interest. but at this point, i don't think it would be appropriate for me to say, you know, what questions were asked or what answers were given. there will come a time when that information will become public as a function of the way this process works with the court. >> yeah. >> i will say this. we fully intend on proceeding with our claim for punitive damages at trial and presenting that to a jury. and i believe that we have
sufficient evidence for that claim to proceed and that we will have sufficient information for the jury to make a determination, both, as to whether or not punitive damages are warranted and how much punitive damages should be awarded, if any. >> so obviously, the context here. you know, you have got the january 6th investigation. you also have trump and his companies right now facing multiple investigations and lawsuits including new york and washington about his taxes, about his alleged corruption at the inaugural committee, about businesses practices at the trump organization. right? the list goes on and on as you know. do you think anything came out today that could be relevant or used in any of those cases when people hear it? >> um, you know, as boring an answer as this might be, i don't -- i don't want to speculate. i will say that we covered a variety of subjects. and at some point, the -- the transcript will, in all likelihood, become public or some portion of it. or the video will. um, you know, this was an examination concerning allegations in the complaint which deal with mr. trump as an employer.
as an employer of certain individuals. >> yep. >> um, there have been depositions in this case, already, from mr. keith shiller, mr. matthew calamari. so you can imagine what subjects might have been covered with mr. trump in this deposition but i won't get into them at this point. >> ben, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. and next, colin powell and one of his final and most revealing interviews before his death. >> whenever that is asked of me, i said true i am a reluctant warrior. i don't like wars. plus breaking news. joe manchin and bernie sanders embroiled in a nasty and personal war of words just met about the spending bill. and the former miami police chief clashed with city officials when he pushed for a vaccine requirement for officers. does he stand by it? art acevedo is outfront.
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in what may have been colin powell's final interview before he died, the former secretary of state opens up about his career and his health to legendary journalist bob woodward. powell died at the age of 84 from covid complications amid battles with multiple myeloma and parkinson's disease both of which, of course, weaken the immune system. here is powell.
>> reluctant warrior. whenever that is asked of me, i said true. i am a reluctant warrior. >> yep. >> i don't like wars. i don't want to be a warrior. but remember the other thing that is well known about me. and that is, we go to a war and i will do everything i can to beat the crap out of somebody and win it. >> powell's life was one of a groundbreaking leader, a lifetime public servant and statesman. a trailblazer, who, of course, broke multiple barriers, including former-president reagan making him the first black national security adviser. powell, also, the youngest and first black chairman of the joint chiefs under president george h.w. bush which included the time period of desert storm. becoming so popular, he faced growing calls to run for president in 1996 but declined to do so. and then, in 2001, powell making history, again, by becoming the first black secretary of state under president george w. bush. outfront now, former new jersey governor who served with powell
in the bush administration as epa administrator and the former chairman of the joint chiefs under president george w. bush, retired general richard meyers. i am so sorry to both of you for the loss of your daear friend. i know that it is -- nothing prepares one for that emptiness and loss. um, general meyers, i want to start with you. and what we just heard there in some of these final days, what we think may have been secretary powell's last interview when he called himself a reluctant warrior. does this sound -- and when you hear that -- that whole clip and his voice and his tone -- like the man that you knew so well? >> yeah, it sounds -- it sounds very much like him. and i -- you know, there are not many military people who are -- want to be warriors. we -- we'd like to avoid that and he was the epitome of that. and he articulated it as -- as well as anybody. more importantly, you know, if you can avoid conflict by using other instruments of national power, he was -- he was always
advocating for that in any room he was in. that -- that all solutions don't need to be military solutions. >> so, governor whitman, former-president bush remembers powell as a great public servant who was highly respected at home and abroad. an understatement, of course. but, you know, powell has reflected in time about, you know, the -- the difficulty for his reputation when he pushed that faulty intelligence before the u.n. in 2003, right, and on behalf of the president, made the case for the iraq war. right? and part of the reason everybody listened to it and it had so much power was because it came from him, right? with his great integrity and credibility. how much did he regret that moment as he learned more, later? >> well, when he learned that the intelligence was just wrong -- and i must say that we all heard the same kind of briefings, that there was just no -- no question that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. but as he learned more, he was deeply, deeply resentful of having been put out there and
given false information because he went back several times, and reworked that speech to say have you got it right? is this really what i can say? is this based on the facts? and -- and he was hurt by it because he felt that he had let people down. and that was not colin powell, at all. >> and general meyers, i want to play something secretary powell said just days after the deadly insurrection, right, because i have talked about, you know, how he's been lionized for his -- his long career in public service but he continued to lead and to speak out even after he left office. and so, this is right after the insurrection when he called out republicans who failed to stand up to trump at that crucial moment. here's secretary powell. >> they should have known better. but they were so taken by their political standing and how none of them wanted to put themselves at political risk, they would not stand up and tell the truth or stand up and criticize him. or criticize others. and that's what we need. we need people who will speak the truth, who remember that they are here for our fellow citizens, they are here for our
country. they are not here simply to be re-elected, again. >> general meyers, you know, it -- it -- those are the words and the sentiments that -- that we -- we all wish more people shared. how did he see the changes in -- in this country and, of course, in the republican party? you know, of -- of which he was, for so long a time, a loyal leader in. >> well, i think that that statement right there probably says all of that. um, you know, he had a -- he had the courage to -- to stand up to the bureaucracy and he had a lot of experience with the bureaucracy. he was a master in national security apparatus and then diplomacy when he became secretary of state. so he was -- he always had the courage to -- um -- speak his conviction no matter what the audience and that's to be admired and i think we heard
that in that -- that clip right there. that -- that was vintage secretary/general powell. >> yeah. and, governor, former-president obama remembered powell as an exemplary soldier and patriot. just to show that -- how the power that he had. for people of various political ideologies. obama also said how much it meant to him that powell endorsed him in 2008 despite being a lifelong republican at the time. now, this is the first of several times that powell called out the republican party and the direction of the gop. here he is endorsing both obama and biden. >> i have some concerns about the direction that the party has taken in recent years. i'm also troubled by not what senator mccain says but what members of the party say and it is permitted to be said. such things as, well, you know that mr. obama is a muslim. well, the correct answer is he is not a muslim.
he's a christian. he's always been a christian. but the really right answer is what if he is? is there something wrong with being a muslim in this country? the answer is no, that's not america. we are turning points. i mean, the republican party, the president thought they were immune. the one word i have to use with respect to what he has been doing the last several years is a word i would never have used before. i never would have used with any of the four presidents i have worked for. he lies. he lies about things. >> he didn't just cross lines, right? he -- he -- he did it in a very vocal way. he spoke out and to use that and to talk about the importance of the word lies is so significant. why did he feel it was necessary to speak out so publicly when, frankly, at that time very few people were and certainly not using such direct language? >> he said it because he took an oath to the constitution, not to a political party.
it was never a question of his serving the republican party. he served the people and so he wasn't going to put up with someone who disregarded the truth. colin believed in it deeply. he was a -- he just had such dignity about him, and he was so -- um -- you know, he -- he was someone you could trust and that's why it hurt him so much when the facts were wrong that he was given about the weapons of mass destruction at the united nations speech. but he'd never hesitated to speak out because, especially when he thought someone was not serving the country in the way that they should. >> right. thank you, both, so very much. i appreciate your time and, again, my -- my condolences for your loss, your personal loss for both of you. secretary powell also spoke about his health battles in that interview with bob woodward in july so let me play part of that for you. >> well, you see, i have got to go to the hospital about two or three times a week. i've got multiple myeloma cancer and i have got parkinson's
disease. but otherwise, i'm fine. >> oh, no. i'm so sorry. >> don't say no. don't feel sorry for me, for god's sakes. i'm 85 years old. i got to have something. and i don't feel -- i haven't lost a day of life fighting these two diseases. i am in good shape. >> outfront now, dr. michelle mcmurray heath who is the senior official with the fda. so, dr. mcmurray heath, secretary powell full of optimism there. you know, when you hear covid complications, he was 84, african-american, he was fighting multiple myeloma and parkinson's disease. how much of an impact did all of that have, together, on secretary powell? by the way, he had had both shots of the vaccine. when he got infected with covid. >> well, erin, it had a tremendous impact. you know, multiple myeloma is a cancer of the immune system. it makes it very difficult to mount a proper immune response, and we know that patients that get both of their doses of their
covid vaccine if they are getting pfizer or moderna -- um, if they have an autoimmune disease or immunodeficiency, it's sometimes difficult for them to mount a proper response but he was a patriot as you said in your last segment. and so, he stepped up to the plate as all americans should to be fully vaccinated. and it's because of those among us that are more vulnerable that we all must do the same. >> and -- and i think that's really significant, how you put it. you know, as soon as secretary powell's death was announced, right, and it was oh, he was fully vaccinated. um, this is some of what we heard -- actually, this, that i am going to play are a few clips from fox news, specifically. >> we are seeing data from europe, from the united kingdom that fully-vaccinated people are being hospitalized and fully-vaccinated people are dying from covid. and here, we have a very high-profile example that is going to require more truth, more truth from our government, from our health leaders, as well. as we talk about this story on a
day when state after state and institution after institution are pushing mandates for vaccination. >> now, doctor, he had been scheduled, my understanding is, to get his third shot, right, the booster shot last week but he was too ill to actually receive it. by that point. but -- but does his death raise new concerns about the vaccine or not? >> not at all. you know, colin powell was so brave about standing up to ignorance and to lies. and this is a situation where we must do the same. we know that the vaccines are extremely effective. >> yep. >> and we know that it's that booster shots are necessary for those that are older and those who have compromised immune systems. and that's why he was about all of that advice. it's just heartbreaking that it did not come quite in time because it probably could have done a lot to help protect him. but we all must do everything we can so that those of us who can mount a proper response can protect those of us who cannot.
>> right. and that's the lesson, right? because he got it from somewhere and that's the tragedy, right? doctor, i really appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. and next, joe manchin and bernie sanders together tonight looking almost friendly despite this war of words. >> i don't believe that we should turn our society into an entitlement society. >> does senator manchin not believe that our children and grandchildren are entitled to live in a country and a world that is healthy and is habitable? and more than a third of chicago police officers defying the city vaccine mandate among officers across the country fighting the rules as mandates take effect. even though covid is the leading death -- cause of death among officers. miami's former-police chief who fought for a vaccine mandate for officers is outfront.
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breaking news. a key meeting on the president's massive spending bill moments ago the two sides. progressive senator bernie sanders and moderate senator joe manchin appearing with their arms around each other, literally, outside the capitol. >> we're talking. >> well, that's saying something because the two key senators have been locked in an increasingly nasty and public feud. a standstill over the top line of the bill and even more importantly, what would actually be in it. >> i don't believe that we
should turn our society into an entitlement society. >> does senator manchin not believe that our children and grandchildren are entitled to live in a country and a world that is healthy and is habitable? >> manu raju is outfront on capitol hill. so, manu, what else are you learning about this -- this meeting and what it means for the negotiations on the larger spending bill? >> well, this is really the first time that we are aware of the two sat down one on one to talk about these various differences that they have and the differences are vast. you will recall that they have actually met in a group setting with the leadership team on the senate side. but talking one on one, different. however, they are still far apart on so many issues. the price tag, for one. 3.5 trillion is what bernie sanders says is a compromise on this overall bill. manchin says he is not going to go over 1.5 trillion. now, the progressives realize that they have go to below 3.5 trillion but how low remains a question. also, what issues are they going to ultimately agree on?
joe manchin has pushed back on the idea of aggressive climate change measures, presumably to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 52% by 2030. bernie sanders says this bill must be aggressive on climate change as well as other issues, such as expanding medicare. that is an issue that bernie sanders says is a redline for him. joe manchin disagrees. now, this is important not just because of the personalities at issue here because in the senate, all 50 democrats need to agree in order for this bill to move forward. if one senator -- joe manchin or kyrsten sinema -- two of the leading moderates here -- were to defect, that will be enough to scuttle the entire biden agenda. and hanging in the balance, too, is that separate infrastructure bill that has already passed the senate. sanders has warned -- urged house democrats not to support that bill until that larger package is agreed to by manchin and sinema. so, so much here is riding on the line in the weeks ahead.
bernie sanders leaving the meeting, told me i hope we can see some real action in the next week. another top democrat, dick durbin, told me there is high anxiety among democrats right now to get a deal. but manchin, himself, was pessimistic that they can reach a deal by the end of this month. the new deadline for democratic leaders, though, erin, still uncertain how they get there but at the moment, they say they are talking. >> thank you, manu. so now, i want to go to democratic congressman ro khanna at the center of all this. he is a member of the crucial congressional progressive caucus. so, i really appreciate your time. okay. you see that video of manchin and sanders together tonight. what -- what do you read into that? >> i think it's wonderful. i had suggested to president biden that the two of them meet. i'm glad that they have met. it shows that they are working to resolve differences, to compromise, and everyone understands the stakes. we have to pass the president's j agenda. democracy is at stake. >> president biden said when you
suggested i believe it would be homicidal but there they are, they did meet. >> wasn't homicide. so there you go. >> so let me ask you about the deadline now, such that i understand it, right? that a vote on the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill has got to happen by october 31st. manchin said today that that's not likely. so, you may have a really big decision to make. will you vote for the infrastructure bill, the bipartisan one, regardless of where the separate spending bill stands? >> erin, it's not going to come for a vote. the president has said, the speaker has said that they have to come together. let me just briefly explain why. when that bipartisan deal was negotiated, it was with 19 senators. there wasn't a single house member involved, not even the house transportation chair. we wanted to amend it. we wanted to add electric vehicle provisions, we wanted to add clean energy standards. the president and speaker said, no, do it in a separate bill. so both bills have to move
because we are not allowed to amend what the senators came up with. >> right. but part of the reason they did that ostensibly with some of the things you mentioned is it wouldn't have passed the senate. it would have been an un-passable piece of legislation. somebody like joe manchin wouldn't get onboard. i am just wondering if ultimately you have to choose between getting that bipartisan bill or nothing at all, do you choose nothing or do you choose the bill? >> i don't think that will be the choice. i think the choice will be, we will come to a compromise and we will have two bills. now, i do think we have to compromise on the build back better agenda and sitdown with senator manchin, lower under 3.5 trillion and come to an agreement but i do believe we will have both bills and i do believe there will be some strong climate provisions in them. >> all right. so -- so how do you think that happens with him? because as you point out, right, it's not just that the numbers are -- are -- are incredibly different, right? it's actually the substance. joe manchin has said he wants a work requirement for the child tax credit. he doesn't want the paid leave policiness there. he is not fully supportive of
community college being paid for. and obviously, he is not for the climate change provisions in the bill. that is a lot of not being for things. i mean, all those things, to me, would seem to be things that -- that are core for you. can you compromise and drop a few of 'em? >> well, let me start with some of the positives. he came out today -- senator manchin -- for universal preschool. that was a positive. that suggests that he does believe in certain things with education. you can have universal programs. on the child tax credit, he voted for the american rescue plan which was means tested but had much higher income levels than 60,000. i believe we can talk to him and say, look, $60,000 isn't a lot of money in california. we need to have higher thresholds and i believe we can reason. but the most important thing is this. senator manchin cares about a lot of families. mining families, other families that have had pride in their work. and he needs to be assured that those families will have opportunities and jobs so that they have pride and not just a handout. it is our job to convince him
that this will be a win for west virginia and new jobs and i believe we can do that. we should, frankly, earmark a certain amount of jobs for heavy fossil fuel states that they know that they will have -- be able to deliver for families. >> so, the president's meeting tomorrow with a group of progressives. i know he met with the chair of your caucus, congresswoman pramila jayapal today, but tomorrow with progressives and moderates. do you plan to be there? and what do you want to say to him? >> i'm looking forward to it and it's not about what i say to him. i -- it's what he says to us. he's the president of the united states. i think it's time for us to follow him. he should offer a compromise that is fair, and we need to get behind him and get this done. and -- and that is what i have indicated in the past. he has a lot of good will. a lot of trust in the caucus. it's time for him to lead, and us to get behind his vision. >> all right. congressman, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you. and next, thousands of chicago officers not reporting their covid vaccine status in defiance of a city mandate to do
so. covid is killing more police than gunfire, so why the resistance? and 16 americans including five children kidnapped in haiti by a dangerous gang. where are they tonight? defense. old spice works harder for longer. hey derrick man, you gonna be much longer? it's gonna be a minute minute. hey derrick, quit playin. derrick! ♪“i swear”♪ jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. you can always spot a first time gain flings user.
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tonight, some police clashing with city leaders as covid vaccine requirements go into effect, coast to coast. in chicago, 35% of officers are defying a mayoral order to report their vaccination status or be placed on unpaid leave. the massachusetts state police department is down 600 troopers because of vaccine requirements. and in seattle, where the deadline is just hours away and where almost all the officers
did get vaccinated, some of them are still signing off for the last time and publicly choosing to leave their jobs over getting vaccinated. >> due to my personal choice to take a moral stand against -- for medical freedom and personal choice -- i will be signing out of service for the last time today. >> state 1034. this is the last time you will hear me in a state patrol car and jay inslee can kiss my [ bleep ]. >> front now, art acevedo. and served as the president of the major city chiefs association. chief acevedo, i really appreciate your time. and this is -- we have seen this happening across the country, right? police officers. they have, in some cases, you know, vaccine -- vaccination rates are low. obviously, not the case in seattle but in many other places, much lower than the broader community. and in addition, they are fighting any sort of requirement to get vaccinated or to prove their vaccination status.
why do you think there is so much resistance? >> you know, i think that's a $64,000 question. police officers are part of society and unfortunately this public health epidemic has become a political issue, it's been politicized and a lot of folks are just making decisions not to take the vaccine. and consequently, people are dying unnecessarily and i just wish people would just pay attention to the actual data out there, the science that saves lives and hopefully little by little, we will start changing hearts and minds and people will get vaccinated. >> of course, more police officers in the last year have died of covid than anything else. i mean, it's just a horrible tragedy. and many of these law foe enforcement officials and union leaders, they are raising --s that a mandate would lead to fewer officers on the street. chicago, 35% of officers are defying the mayor's order to report their vaccination status. i'm not saying 35% of them are unvaccinated. maybe, right? but they just won't say whether they are or aren't. the massachusetts state police department, down 600 troopers.
and in la, the sheriff says he would lose 5 to 10% of his workforce. you know, it -- it's pretty stunning. what do you say to those concerns? >> well, i would say that, look, pay attention to what's going on. we are losing more police officers to covid to a death from a virus that is preventable that we know the science shows us that if you are vaccinated, the likelihood of dying from covid is almost zero. so, i would just say that, you know, we need to put -- take a timeout. take a step back. push the emotion side and just start getting the information from public health authorities and understand that we have a respondent not just to ourselves and our families but we have a responsibility to the public whom we come in contact with every day. and i know cops, they are good people. they have good hearts and i don't think anyone would want to unwittingly infect somebody and have somebody die because we infect them. so we need to go out and get vaccinated just like our family and friends do and hopefully what's where we are headed. >> so miami's city manager said you overstepped your bounds when
you came out in support of a vaccine mandate for police officers and the city commission voted to remove you as chief last thursday. now, you had only been on the job for six months and obviously, you know, you are one of the most, you know, decorated police chiefs in the country. um, on vaccines, chief, why did you feel strongly about speaking out in favor of mandates and not backing down? >> because i love my workforce and i love the community and the har hardest thing you can do as a police chief is having to go to one of your officer's funerals. houston just buried an officer today that unfortunately passed away from covid and it's something that whether it's a gunshot or it's a virus, it is permanent and it's fatal. and so, we got to love our brothers and sisters, and sometimes we have to, you know, try to encourage them. and that's how we need to continue to our neighbors, our friends, and our cops, especially because we are out in the public and we certainly don't want to cause a death of another. so i would hope people would just, again, pay attention to the data.
know that it will save your life and potentially can save the life of a friend, a family member, or a member of the public. >> and yet, here you are now, you know, after -- after -- after, you know, that -- that -- it -- you -- your are out of a job right now and you stood up for this. so when asked about your future plans, i know one of the things you said, chief, which i thought was interesting, quote, my mom and dad didn't come here for us to be quitters. your parents, of course, did come to the u.s. from cuba. so what's next for you? i mean, are you going to fight the city's decision -- decision in miami to remove you as chief of police? or what are you going to do? >> i think first it's important to realize that the vaccine was not -- you know, i put out a memo detailing some really serious concerns involving political leadership. >> yes. >> and consequently, i ended up getting fired but the end of the day, i think that you are put in these poigdsitions to make a difference. i am going to recharge for the next few weeks and then i am going to see what's my path forward. public service is in my dna and i am hoping the future will bring an opportunity to continue serving the american people and
the good men and women in law enforcement. >> chief acevedo, appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you, have a great evening. next, 17 missionaries, 16 of them americans, abducted in haiti. the united states on the ground there trying to get them back tonight. so, what in the world happened and who are the kidnappers? is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is the planning effect from fidelity. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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post," it's the message that was sent from one of 16 americans as they were being kidnapped by a ruthless game in haiti on saturday. they were last seen in the commune east of the country's capital port-au-prince. the fbi and u.s. state department tonight on the ground in haiti. and still even trying to figure out where they are. joe johns is outfront. >> reporter: a city descending into lawlessness. many businesses and schools were closed monday in port-au-prince in an indefinite strike to protest the worsening security in haiti. gangs rule the streets here, and kidnapping is big business for them. a brazen abduction on saturday. 17 missionaries were taken just north of the capital after visiting an orphanage. 16 americans, one canadian, five of them children. the missionaries were part of a group called christian aid ministries based in ohio. u.s. officials say they do not
know where they are being held, but the state department says a small team now on the ground in haiti is working closely with haitian authorities to secure their release. security sources say this is the man behind the surge of kidnappings in haiti. he is said to be the leader of one of haiti's most powerful gangs called 400 mawozo. authorities believe they kidnapped the missionaries. despite a warrant out for his arrest on charges of murder and kidnapping, the gang leader often boasts publicly about his gang. >> translator: the reason why i am proud to be a gangster is because this is what feeds me. because we don't have a country. guns are a form of power. >> reporter: a human rights group in haiti says the number of kidnappings in the country is spiraling out of control. rising nearly 300% since july. it also says 400 mawozo, its
leader shown here in a white face covering, is behind many of the kidnappings. abducting haitians and foreign nationals, and typically demanding ransoms of about $20,000. the united nations, recently, extended its political mission in haiti. the country still raw from the assassination of its president, and a powerful earthquake earlier-this year. but some officials blame the rise of the armed gangs on a security vacuum left after u.n. peacekeepers ended their mission in haiti just two years ago. >> the united nations had a military component, a military force for over 14 years, spents over $14 billion and left in 2019. creating a -- a huge security void. basically, they trained the police and the police is under 16,000 police officers, and is not really equipped to fight off the type of gang activity, the type of gang warfare that is going on right now in haiti.
>> reporter: tonight, u.s. officials are quietly trying to help out on the situation involving the american missionaries. but the big pictures that we have seen, yet another serious international incident involving the poorest, most unstable nation in the western hemisphere. and it's just not clear how things are going to get better for haiti until haiti figures out how to get control of the streets. erin. >> incredible. joe johns, thank you very much. once again, on the ground in port-au-prince. and thanks so much to all of you for being with us. ac 360 starts now. very busy hour ahead as the country mourns the loss of soldiers, statesman, and pioneering american colin powell. we will bring you only on cnn what's believed to be the final interview that he did. a 42 minute long conversation with bob woodward. he joins us. so does former-secretary of state madelyn all bright. we begin, though, with breaking news on the former president's fight to keep documents from his
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