tv CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell CNN October 19, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
$1 million per person is what they're asking for. several calls, we know, have taken place between that group and the gang since they were taken on saturday, the first call coming in just a few hours after they were kidnapped. we also know, though, from a source in haitian security forces that at this point, the hostages are safe. >> thank you for the update. that does it for us. see you tomorrow at 1:00. see you tomorrow at 1:00. the news continues right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, thank you for joining us, i'm victor blackwell. >> and i'm alisyn camerota, a pivotal hour for president biden starts right now at the white house. he has gathered nine progressive members of congress together to talk through their desire for more programs and spending as part of their social safety net package. then, later today, he'll meet with a group of moderate democrats who do not want all of those things. exactly how this will resolve something is unclear.
>> well, this morning, senator kyrsten sinema, one of the moderates, seen as holding up negotiations, the progressives say was at the white house. everything on the president's schedule in the coming days is telegraphing one central goal, that it's time to close the deal on the build back better plan, and president biden believes he's the moderate who can get it done. with us now, senior white house correspondent phil mattingly and cnn congressional correspondent lauren fox. lauren, you're up first. progressives are now in this meeting, but we're getting some specifics today about what senator joe manchin feels about some of the climate change proposals. >> reporter: well, exactly. look, joe manchin making it very clear today that he is opposed to yet another provision the democrats have been eyeing as part of this bigger social safety net bill, specifically he is opposed to a carbon tax, and that, of course, is something that gives businesses an incentive to use alternative fuels. senator manchin saying that is not on the table. here's what he said earlier
today. >> are you okay with the carbon tax? >> no, we're not talking -- that's -- we haven't talked about that. no, we don't -- we're not -- carbon tax isn't on the board at all right now, okay? >> reporter: and the carbon tax was something that a lot of progressives up here in the senate were hoping might be some bridge to get manchin on board. obviously, manchin closing it down as you just saw there. but this is part of a broader effort from democrats. you have senator manchin, who is complicated on the issue of climate change, because of where he's from. he's from a coal-producing state in west virginia. he is seeing this and viewing this through the eyes of what is going to help or not help his state, and he just says he can't get there on the issue of climate change. meanwhile, you have progressives saying they aren't going to support a bill that doesn't deal substantially with the issue of climate change, so how they bridge that gap is just one of a plethora of issues that lawmakers are really digging into right now. democrats are having their private senate lunch just a few
feet away from here. they are hoping that that gives them some more clarity, some more direction, on where they can go in these negotiations, but look, climate change, just one provision, again, out of this broader piece of legislation that democrats haven't even agreed to a top line on yet. victor and alisyn? >> so, democrats have been wanting biden to play a bigger role in these negotiations. is that what's happening today? >> i think in part, to some degree. you have to think about where negotiations have been, guys, over the course of the last couple weeks is largely behind the scenes and largely focused on two senators. lauren was just talking about one of them. senator joe manchin. the other is moderate arizona senator kyrsten sinema. there has been intensive granular negotiations, i'm told, between white house democratic leadership officials and their policy staffs and those two senators and their teams, trying to figure out if there is some kind of path forward. now, the president met in the oval office, separately, with senators manchin and sinema this morning. but what this afternoon represents
is kind of an effort to broaden out where things stand, a check where progress may have been made with senator manchin off two critical constituencies, the progressives right now and the moderates later on, and those two constituencies don't necessarily all get along and jen psaki addressed that just a few moments ago. >> they aren't duels between factions of the party. there's broad agreement, actually, about the vast majority of issues here so the president's basing this approach on five decades of washington, which is a pretty good guide for how to get things done, and he felt these were the appropriate groups to come together and bring to the white house today. >> but he wanted to keep them separate? >> well, i think it's important for people to understand it's not as if these members don't talk to each other in congress or don't have their own meetings with each other. >> reporter: guys, i would note that over the course of the last several days, it's felt like senators bernie sanders and joe manchin may have been headed for a duel, though they appear to have made up, at least to some degree last night in a private meeting. but i think this gets at the president's approach. and as you noted quite well, alisyn, democrats have been very critical of that approach over
the course of the last several weeks, feeling negotiations have been dragging on, feeling like the president should do more to put his foot down, to set a hard line, to start the process moving forward. i think the president, as jen it is was ashrelluding to, is goinf his experience. as we see this ramp up, time is definitely of the essence and i think democrats on both sides of pennsylvania avenue feel like that window is closing and closing fast, guys. >> all right, phil mattingly, lauren fox, thank you so much. with me now, senator kirsten gillibrand, senator of new york. let's start here with climate, which is the standoff of the day. we've heard from senator manchin that he does not support a carbon tax, which is supposed to be the fill-in for the clean energy program which he does not support. can you achieve the president's goals and satisfy the members whobt substantive climate legislation without either of
those programs? >> i think we can. i think that we are in a moment in history where severe weather has been such a burden on so many communities across the united states, and so many families have suffered, we've lost lives, we've lost homes, we've lost businesses, and i think congress will come together and i think there will be provisions in this bill that can address global climate change and severe weather and i think they will get to a final goal of making real, real change with regard to global climate change. >> but how do you get there? because what we've heard from senator manchin, and listen, we understand that he's representing a coal energy state there in west virginia. he's been a no on many of the got to do's for some of the progressives in the senate. how do you get there? >> i think there's ways to put a price on carbon by incentivizing renewables, incentivizing clean energy, incentivizing being more energy efficient and there's ways to do that and i think that -- >> but those are the grants and
tax breaks that senator manchin has said no to. >> i don't think he said no to anything in specific terms. i think he is negotiating in good faith with the white house to get to a place where he feels comfortable. >> let's turn now to paid leave. first, banner question here. is there a scenario in which a bill without federal paid leave gets your vote? >> i think we will get a bill that has federal paid leave in it. i just left the caucus meeting, and i made a presentation to the caucus, including senator manchin, about what families are facing all across new york, all across west virginia, and all across the country. we had challenges before covid. but covid laid bare what families are experiencing. families had to leave the workforce. women -- over 5 million women had to leave the workforce because of the challenges of covid, because schools were closed, day cares were closed, kids had to learn remotely. and millions of women have not even been able to return to the workforce because of these
challenges. and so i've just made the case that if you want people who want to be working working, they need the structural support, the economic supports to do it. they need to have paid leave when they have a new infant and want to nurse a baby or have a parent, a mother who's dying and they need to be by their side or a family member, a child who's sick and needs to be cared for. that is the realities of americans today and if you want those workers to go back to work after these life emergencies, in west virginia, 40% of moms will be more likely to go back to work if they have paid leave after having that child so i made that case directly to senator manchin, to the entire caucus about what life is like and that's what the build back better agenda is. it's about families. it's about people. it's about helping people in times of great need. >> i hear that. >> and you can't pick one without the other. if you help that mom nurse that baby for that first three months but then there's no child care, mom can't go back to work. you need to do both.
>> i hear you, senator. >> i think we'll get there. >> you're saying that you think you'll get there. you're optimistic. my question was a different one. is there any scenario in which you would vote for a bill that does not have federal paid leave? >> well, that would be very hard for me to do, because it's very hard for me to say if there's no paid leave in the bill that i would vote for it. >> okay. >> so i will wait and see and i will work as hard as i possibly can to make sure that something as important as paid leave is in this bill. >> okay. >> but all the things we've talked about are important. and i'm going to work with my colleagues to get everyone to "yes." >> i'm going to stay on paid leave for a moment. of course, the question is, how much will this bill cost? 12 weeks of paid leave, family paid and medical leave, federal government covering up 60% of it, where are you willing to negotiate, the length of time, the cap per month, the percentage that the federal government will pay?
because the question for some of the moderates is, what is the top line number and how do you reach that? where are you willing to budge? >> is so, the topline number at the end of the day is not the question. the question is, are you going to create a program that's going to meet the need of families? long-term, we want to get 12 weeks for all life events, because that's pretty much the bare minimum. if we can't get to 12 weeks for all life events on day one, then we'll goet to x number of weeks and that "x," again, it doesn't matter as much as creating the safety net that families desperately need, and so if we have an arbitrary limit on how much we can invest today, we'll meet that arbitrary limit and over time, fight for more resources. it's important to create the program, make it permanent, make sure it lasts a full ten years and it's important that is gender neutral for all life events. those are the most important aspects, and how much it covers and up to how much of income that it covers, those can be debatable. the way we wrote the program and the way it was last negotiated
had a cap of $5,000 a month. that means that if your income is $60,000 a year, you could get full wage replacement. i suggest that if it's full wage replacement, that you tax it so it's progressive. so, for example, if you're very wealthy, you have a tax rate of 40%. if you are a low-wage work er, you might have a tax rate of 10%. that's fair. but if you have that cap at $5,000 a month, then the most anybody's going to get is a $5,000 a month benefit and that's -- >> so what's been the response? >> that makes it a very progressive and it makes it a very meaningful program, which is in line with what senator manchin has said he's looking for in a lot of these programs. >> so, what have you heard from -- you made your case. what have you heard from some of the moderates who are wondering about the overall cost? >> i've had favorable responses to date that because it's progressive, because it is means tested, because it seems reasonable, because it is something that's needed, because it's something families want, because it's bipartisan, i think 74% of republicans support it
and 80% of democrats and americans support it. it's widely supported across the country. its time has certainly come and we're the only industrialized nation in the world that doesn't have paid leave. but again, you have to keep working, keep listening, keep finding common ground, which i intend to do with my colleagues until we all get to yes and if we have to shorten the amount of time that's covered, shorten the amount of resources that are provided, those things can be debated. it's more important that we answer the call of the need, which is the support for families. >> understood. >> we need to care for our loved ones. >> well, senator, let me ask you this. there are some of your colleagues on capitol hill who are dissatisfied or underwhelmed by the approach from the white house. the lack of forcefulness in the way some are describing it. the president is involved. how would you rate -- are you satisfied with how the president is approaching the negotiations? >> i am. and i have to tell you,
president biden has been on this every day for the last several months. and i've been to the white house twice and met with the president and spoke to him about paid leave, about other issues, and he is not only briefed me on his negotiations and the negotiations he had that day. he's on this every single day and he has been not only talking to my colleagues in the house and the senate, repeatedly, but our leadership and he's not going to let go until he gets it across the finish line and i think that's why he's the president of the united states. >> if he's a moderator, why not get both sides in one room together at the white house instead of progressives in the morning or moderates in the afternoon? >> i think he's negotiating in the way he believes is most effective. >> all right, senator kirsten gillibrand of new york, thank you. >> thank you. so, president biden will discuss his ambitious legislative agenda with cnn's anderson coop er in a cnn town hall thursday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. tune in. tonight, the house panel
investigating the january 6th capitol attack will vote to officially begin the process of criminal contempt charges against trump ally, steve bannon. and we're learning that bannon's attorney just requested a delay of this meeting, but the committee denied it. >> bannon has been refusing to comply with the subpoena, seeking documents and communications from january 6th and more. the former chief strategist for the ex-president cites executive privilege, though he left the trump administration in 2017. >> cnn's paula reid is tracking this story. explain the process that they're going to start tonight with the justice department involved. >> reporter: victor, tonight, the house committee will move to adopt this report that they have compiled. it lays out exactly what they wanted from bannon, their efforts to get him to comply and how he refused. if that succeeds, it moves to the full house for a vote and then it likely moves on to the justice department where the decision about whether to proceed lies with attorney general merrick garland. at this point, it's unclear what the attorney general will do,
but we know two things. one is that the attorney general is facing a lot of political pressure, and according to experts i've spoken with, bannon has made the decision a little bit easier for him. in terms of the political pressure, late last week, president biden said that he believes, yes, bannon should be prosecuted for contempt. that is notable because the justice department is, of course, supposed to be independent, but other democratic lawmakers have also come out and said they want this prosecution because they believe if there are no consequences for refusing to comply with the subpoena, they won't be able to do their job. but the justice department has come out and said they will make an independent decision based on the facts and the law, full stop. now, in terms of the case before the attorney general, potentially, if this continues to move forward, i'm told by legal experts on both sides of the aisle that bannon could have made this a lot more difficult. he could have muddied the waters by showing up and answering some questions but then refusing to answer others, either pleading the fifth or citing executive privilege.
instead, he and his attorney just fired off a letter, saying, we will not comply unless we are ordered by a court, citing executive privilege, even though a lot of the materials the committee is speaking have nothing to do with conversations with the former president. so, it will be interesting to see what exactly the attorney general does with this. >> okay, so, paula, also, the house is facing a new legal fight from donald trump. he's suing the committee and apparently the national archives to keep his records private. so, what's his plan? >> reporter: that's right. in this lawsuit filed yesterday, he is seeking to block the committee from getting records from his time at the white house related to january 6th. now, he argues that as a former president, he should still be able to assert executive privilege, even if the current president doesn't agree. and this really does kick off an interesting legal dispute between the house committee, the archives, and the former president, raises some novel legal issues. but legal experts i've spoken with say, look, this is a long shot. i'm told it looks like here his
attorneys are just trying a few different legal theories, hoping that at best case, they can block some of these materials from getting to investigators, but at the very least, maybe they can just delay knthese proceedings. the former president is on notice that he has until november 12th to get a court to intervene. otherwise, these materials, this first batch, will be handed over. >> this is happening quickly. paula reid, thank you for that. the fda says it will approve mixing and matching covid booster shots, or at least they're signaling that's what they will approve coming up, so what that means for you. this is coming to us from texas. a plane with more than 20 people on board, the fuselage engulfed in flames here. everyone got off safely. >> that's amazing. >> we'll tell you this story.
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if you're planning to get a booster shot, you may soon have more options. >> source tell cnn the fda is set to approve a mix and match approach for boosters as soon as tomorrow. now, that means if you got johnson & johnson initially, your booster could be pfizer or moderna. cnn's alexandra field has that and more in today's covid headlines. >> reporter: more americans, tens of millions, could soon be eligible for a booster shot. the fda is considering whether to authorize moderna and j&j boosters and a cdc advisory committee could recommend them as soon as thursday. two sources tell cnn the fda is planning to allow americans to mix and match coronavirus vaccines when they receive their boosters. >> if you can not get a booster of whatever vaccine you got initially, that should not
preclude you from trying to go get yourself protected. please go get vaccinated. >> reporter: but some 65 million americans are still choosing not to get any shot. washington state's highest paid public employee, football coach nick, fired for refusing to comply with the state's vaccine mandate, along with four of his assistant coaches. >> coaches across the country always try to teach their players to sacrifice for the team and in nick's case, not only did he refuse to do that, he never really explained himself. >> reporter: los angeles's vaccine mandate for city workers takes effect tomorrow. the city now preparing for as many as a third of its sworn officers to defy it. there's evidence, though, that vaccine mandates are broadly working. there's 90% compliance with washington state's mandate for all state workers, 99% with seattle's, 91% with oregon's. in the most vaccine-resistant regions, tensions are rising. in florida, a private school perpetuating false claims about
the adverse effects of vaccines, asking parents to keep vaccinated students home for 30 days. and in a letter to the justice department, local health officials are now seeking protection, citing, quote, a rise in harassment and threats targeting school personnel. that kind of harassment, too much for this illinois school board member. >> i'm the second board member to resign this year from my board. i've been approached by other board members in our area that have the same thing going on. i need to do what's right for my family and put their personal safety first. >> reporter: all this as new covid cases and covid-related hospitalizations fall to nearly three-month lows with more than two-thirds of eligible americans now vaccinated. still, there is more cause for concern, particularly for the unvaccinated. cnn analysis shows five states experiencing cold weather are now seeing the biggest pockets of increases. >> and you know, we talk about the challenges that come with cold weather but we don't have to have the same challenges we had a year ago because we have tools now that we didn't have
back then, vaccines, and to that point, we are seeing new data today that shows just how effective these vaccines are in the real world. we're seeing pfizer data that shows that the vaccine is 93% effective in protecting against hospitalization for adolescents. a key stat for a lot of parents out there, i think. >> alex field, thank you for that. well, the fbi has swarmed a d.c. home of a russian oligarch and putin ally. what we're learning about the raid. we'll have that next. and how did every single person, including a 10-year-old, survive this plane crash today? we're live on the scene. bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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here's some breaking news. right now, the fbi is at the washington, d.c., home of russian oligarch oleg. authorities also searched a new york location connected to this russian billionaire. this is a putin ally who was previously sanctioned by the trump administration for russia's 2016 election interference. >> shinon prokupecz joins us now. >> reporter: the fbi there in new york and u.s. attorneys in manhattan have been investigating him for quite some time. today, obviously, taking this step of conducting this search warrant at his home in washington, d.c., and we're also told that they're searching a location, a property that is related to him in new york city.
of course, many people who remember the mueller investigation have heard about oleg. he was a figure in that investigation. sanctioned in 2018 as part of russia's interference in the u.s. elections. so they sanctioned him for that. also the treasury department saying he was investigated for money laundering and illegally wiretapping a government official. the other thing with deripaska that people will remember is his ties to paul manafort. of course, he was running the trump campaign at one point, indicted by the mueller team. there were allegations that manafort passed him campaign polling data. that was something that the mueller team was investigating. it's not entirely clear to us what the fbi here is looking for and what this investigation is about. it could be related to sanctions and that he violated those laws, despite being sanctioned, he continued to own property, do
other kind of business in the united states, so this could be -- that could be what this is about. but of course, the fbi and the u.s. attorney in new york not cementing on the investigation but it is significant that he does have these connections to russia's president and obviously his connections to the former head of the campaign for the former president, donald trump. >> all right, shimon prokupecz, thank you. texas officials say this is a miracle, a cause for celebration. everyone survived this plane crash. look at this. 21 people, including a 10-year-old, were on board when the aircraft attempted to take off at an airport in waller county, texas. >> let's get to cnn's rosa flores for the latest. rosa, how did they survive? >> reporter: you know, that's the big question, alisyn. i just got off the phone with texas dps that tell me what they're doing right now is they're monitoring the situation. you can see the lights flashing in the distance. they say that the fire is
completely out, but they're monitoring for hot spots and texas dps saying that this is the best possible outcome in a situation like this. nobody died. all the passengers were able to get out of the plane. here's what we know from authorities. 18 passengers, 3 crew members were on this plane earlier today, heading to boston. and this plane actually never took off. it rolled down the runway and about 500 feet later, according to officials, this plane struck a fence in a field, it got disabled, and it went up in flames. now, according to officials, all the passengers were able to get out of this plane safely, including a 10-year-old. officials say that these individuals were stunned. first responders arrived, and they put out the fire with foam and other apparatus. take a listen. >> they were able to get on scene, make a good assessment quickly. we did find all passengers had self-extricated. we assisted them from the field where the plane ended up. any time you have a plane that
doesn't make a landing on the runway like it should, we're always expecting the worst but hoping for the best. and today, we absolutely, positively got the best outcome we could hope for on this incident. >> reporter: now, officials say the two individuals were transported to the hospital. all of the other individuals headed back to the airport. the faa and the ntsb will be investigating, and alisyn and victor, i have to point out, from talking to texas dps, they tell me there were two pilots and one flight attendant so that one flight attendant did a heck of a job getting all of these people out of the plane. victor and alisyn. >> yes, he or she really did. i mean, they always say safety is our first priority but you never think you're going to have to evacuate 21 people while the plane is smoking. that's incredible. >> let's put the -- look. look at this. i heard you, alisyn, from your office when you heard that all 21 people survived this. because you just don't expect it when you see this type of
wreckage. >> yes. i hooted with excitement and shock. also, victor, i don't know if you know this. i'm a bit of a nervous flyer, so i take -- >> i didn't know that. >> i take great comfort that you can survive something like that. >> well, a miracle and cause for celebration indeed as we're hearing from waller county. rosa flores, thank you for that report. meanwhile, we're seeing vaccine showdowns involving law enforcement across the country. in chicago, more than a third of the city's police force is defying the city's protocols, so what next? if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist.
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covid vaccine requirements are pitting city leaders against the police departments. this week, new protocols start in seattle, baltimore, and los angeles, which could drive large numbers of officers off the force unless they agree to weekly testing. in chicago, more than one-third of the police force defied the city's requirement that they report their status by last friday's deadline, and that means as many as 4,500 officers could find themselves without a paycheck now. according to the mayor, a small number of officers have already been disciplined and sent home without pay. with us now is brian hopkins, a chicago city alderman. alderman hopkins, thank you so much for being here. do you know how many chicago police officers as of today are off the job? >> it's less than a hundred. we haven't been able to engage
in any sort of mass discipline or mass termination. we're obviously doing this one by one. you know, they have due process rights, so we have some idea how many didn't comply with the mandatory disclosure, and you mentioned it's about a third. but i have to point out that of that number, a significant portion of them are, in fact, vaccinated. just because they didn't go online to the data portal to disclose their vaccination status, doesn't mean they're not vaccinated. we're hearing stories that many of them made a point of not disclosing as an act of defiance because they're so angry at the mayor, at the way this has been handled. they just wanted to make a point and not do what they're told to do. >> this is what is so confusing, alderman hopkins. they are vaccinated. by the way, this is not a vaccine mandate. they can choose not to be vaccinated. they would have to submit to twice weekly testing, but all this was on friday was declaring your status. are you vaccinated or not.
sometimes your coworkers would like to know if you're vaccinated or not. so, you're saying that a significant number are vaccinated but won't disclose it? i mean, why? how does that make sense? >> it doesn't really make a lot of sense, but when you put it in the context of the low morale in our police department, even the anger and resentment that they feel directed towards this mayor at the way they feel they're disrespected by her, it starts to make a little more sense when you look at it as a labor action, which it really is. the union is the one that's leading it on behalf of the police officers. but it is still a mandate, even though we're not really enforcing it and we're giving police officers this option to test out of the mandate, it is a mandate. it's just a question of how we enforce it, how we phase it in over time, how do we deal with people who are just noncompliant and are willing to risk potentially losing their job, losing their pension as a police officer over a vaccine.
it really doesn't make sense. but like any classic labor dispute, when you get to this point, emotions run so high, bitterness and anger take over for logic, and then you wind up in this situation we're in right now. >> but if what you're saying is that this is a protest vote, basically, from a lot of police officers because of how the mayor has handled it, how should she have handled it differently? >> well, our mayor is not a very good negotiator. that's not in her wheelhouse. she's very caustic and it gets personal right away. we went through a very bitter teacher strike a couple years ago, and at the end, the teachers wound up getting everything that they had asked for. she could have given it to them at the beginning and avoided everything that transpired. similar situation is here. we announced this vaccine mandate, requirement, three months ago. we had three months to work through all the details, you know, to treat all the different bargaining units within city government with respect and dignity and then try to address the concerns. we didn't do that.
instead, we waited until the last minute, imposed a deadline and said you're fired if you don't do it. that's just a terrible approach. and it breeds resentment. it breeds anger. and that's where we're at right now. so, we have to hit the reset button. the point that i have been making lately is, you know, the stick hasn't worked. let's use the carrot. let's try to incentivize behavior right now. let's offer the police department something tangible, something positive to get those remaining officers, which, again, in my estimation, we're talking about somewhere around 1,500 to 2,000 police officers out of a force of 11,000 who haven't been vaccinated. we should be doing some hand-holding here and giving them the support they need, answering their questions, and getting them vaccinated rather than threatening them and browbeating them. >> is the mayor open to your suggestion for a different approach? >> we haven't seen a softening yet. i think she's aware of the situation we're in right now in terms of the potential impact on public safety.
we're already short police officers. we're down, you know, probably about 20% from where our peak staffing levels were a few years ago, so we're short patrol officers, we're -- we've been unsuccessful like jurisdictions all across the country at recruiting young people to choose careers in law enforcement. we have retirements happening at an accelerated pace. we can't afford to lose a thousand police officers. we can't afford to fire a thousand police officers over an impasse like this right now. so, i think the mayor is aware of that. she's in an untenable position, you know, as far as trying to bargain her way out of this. but frankly, she put herself in that position. >> so, very quickly, you think crime rates are going to go up starting now? >> they already are. we had a police officer who was shot in my neighborhood yesterday. fortunately, the bullet was a glancing blow, but it was off of his head. it hit him in the cheek, an inch in a different direction would have killed him. over a relatively minor incident that just escalated. we're seeing that sort of thing
happening where offenders are emboldened, they're firing at police officers, and they're engaging in crimes in neighborhoods that never saw the levels of crime that they're seeing right now. the entire city is on edge right now, and to tell my residents that we're going to lose a thousand police officers at a time when we need a thousand more, it's not a welcome message wheel people are concerned about rising crime. >> alderman brian hopkins, thank you very much for sharing your very important perspective. >> thank you, alisyn. a statue honoring thomas jefferson has stood inside the new york city council chamber for more than 100 years, but now, after a 20-year fight, it's going to be moved. okay, lots going on today. here's what else to watch. - [announcer] with shark vacmop,
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a statue of thomas jefferson at new york city hall will be removed before the end of the year, marking the end of a 20-year battle. after hours of debate, the city's public design commission voted unanimously on monday to remove the statue from the legislative chamber. >> one council member said she felt deeply uncomfortable working with the likeness of a slave owner nearby. jason carroll is live outside new york city hall. what is the plan for the statue? >> reporter: well, that's a good
question, and the short answer is unknown at this point where the statue is actually going to end up. one point is clear, the vote is in, and the jefferson statue is out. the vote coming from the public design commission which basically oversees all of the public art throughout the city. some 700 pieces of art. this is the body that took the vote yesterday, 8-0, basically on behalf of the city council's black, latino, and asian members. again, as you guys say, the statue has been inside the council chambers here at city hall since 1915 for more than 100 years, but over the course of the past several years, there's been a real debate about jefferson's history. most people know him as one of the founding fathers, the author of the declaration of independence uniting the colonies, but he was also a slave owner throughout his life, he owned some 600 slaves throughout his life. also at one point wrote about
white superiority over blacks. and so given the totality of his history, that's the reason why the council finally deciding and saying, look, this statue needs to be removed. as you can imagine, there's been a lot of debate, a lot of passionate feelings on both sides of this issue. >> that statue can no longer exist in those chambers. its time has come. >> i wish this would go to a ref repu refrenda or polling, because i think the majority of new yorkers would disagree with this. >> after the george floyd protests there has been debate about removing statues not just here, a number of areas, we saw the statue of robert e. lee taken down in virginia, for example, as for this statue of thomas jefferson, again, the counsel deciding it needs to be
removed but by the end of the year, that's when a decision will be made exactly where it ends up, back to you guys. >> really interesting, thought provoking topic. jason carroll, thank you. confederate generals, are they in the same category in terms of statues as founding fathers. >> i think it's cleaner cut when you're talking about the confederacy, right, but in addition to owning slaves, they launched a war and fought a war to divide the country, right, so while there may be some people who are divided on thomas jefferson, george washington, the other slave owning signatories of the founding documents of this country, the founding generals should be a different question. >> how do you feel about applying a 2020 lens to the 1700s? >> i think, first, i think the conversation's important because this has been a 20-year fight. right, when this started, there was -- it was kind of dismissed out of hand, no, we're not moving this statue. but i feel like it's appropriate
if we still have to make laws under that statue and from what i understand from the commission, they're moving it to a public place. this is not revisionist history. >> they're not destroying the statue, apparently for the 1900s it was already in the governor's room, a less prominent place in the 1900s. you may recall that former president donald trump that likes nothing better than a culture war warned of this very thing back in 2017. here it is. >> so this week it's robert e. lee, i noticed that stone wall jackson is coming down. is it george washington next week, and thomas jefferson the week after. you have to ask yourself, where does it stop? are we going to take down statues of george washington, what do you think of thomas jefferson, you like him? i love him. >> he was a major statue, are we going to take down his statue.
you know what, it's fine, you're changing history, you're changing culture. >> what do you think? >> well, i think that -- i think part of the reason it is hard for many democrats and even independents, as we saw in the last election to go along with president trump even when he says something that they agree with is because that was the same speech he called neo-nazis very fine people, so in other words, even if he had a legitimate point, it gets buried because he then, during charlottesville, calls neo-nazis very fine people. i think that some people agree with that, and i think it's a legitimate conversation. >> what do you think about the 2021 lens on that period in history? >> i don't even like the 2021 lens being used on the 1980s. if you ever saw my hair in the 1980s, you would understand why. i think we're in a new era, and we should start the conversation now and not hold everybody in the 1700s and earlier responsible for how we feel now.
our values have changed. >> okay. we'd love to hear your thoughts. find us both on social media. all right, the first of two high stakes white house meetings is underway right now as the president makes a final push to close the deal on his ambitious social and economic agenda. . going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can provide broad coverage, and still may save you money on monthly premiums and prescription drugs. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits. but you have to meet a deductible for each, and then you're still responsible for 20% of the cost. next, let's look at a medicare supplement plan. as you can see, they cover the same things as
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