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tv   State of the Union With Jake Tapper and Dana Bash  CNN  April 17, 2022 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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war time president. russian forces savage ukraine, but after russia's atrocities, is ukraine's leader still willing to negotiate? >> u.s. weapon give us hand, stop russia. my exclusive interview with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is next.
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plus the fight ahead, as ukraine braces to face russia in the east and claims a surprise victory at sea, how long will the war last? and desperate need. with millions displaced by the war, a new push to help. dave matthews performs an original new song in support of refugees and what you can do. hello. i'm jake tapper in lviv, ukraine. you're watching a special hour of "state of the union." happy easter and happy passover to those who celebrate. this weekend is one of hope for so many. but here in ukraine where it's been more than 50 days since russian troops invaded, the destruction seems limitless. yesterday while traveling across the country i saw buildings, homes blown away in borodyanka outside kyiv, still digging bodies out from the rubble, bodies of families, children, families that ran to the basement for shelter from the
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bombs. they didn't make it. we saw their toys uncovered in the rubble. this is the cost of putin's unprovoked war in the people of ukraine. the end doesn't seem near as the russian focus moves to the east. the situation in mariupol in the south appears to have grown increasingly dire. overnight ukrainians rejected an ultimatum from the russians to surrender. i traveled to kyiv and sat down with ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy inside the office of the president. it's no exaggeration to say that president zelenskyy changed the course of the war and decidedly the course of history by deciding to stay in kyiv to command, to lead, to fight an army many times the size of his own. today we're devoting the show to bring you that wide-ranging conversation beginning with the very latest from the battlefield. >> russian warship, the moskva, the one that ukrainian soldiers
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told to "f" off, sank. the russians say and the russians are liars, but the russians say it sank on its own. can you offer some clarity and evidence as to what happened to that ship? >> translator: we know that it is gone. for us it is a serious weapon against our country. that is why the fact that it sank is not a tragedy for us. i want you and everyone else to know that. the less weapons the russian federation who attacked our country has, the better it is for us, the less powerful they are. this is all, and it is the most important thing. and what happened to it? time will tell. >> the new russian offensive in the east, in the donbas could start any day. your administration officials
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have warned that it could look as big as world war ii. you won the battle of kyiv. are you going to win the fight for the donbas? >> translator: for us the battle for donbas is very important. it is important for different reasons, for the reason of safety, first of all, our grouping located in donbas is one of the best military we have. it's a large grouping and russia wants to encircle them and destroy them. it is nearly 40,000 people. it is 44,000 professional military men who survived a great war from the beginning of 2014. this is why it is very important for us to preserve that part of our army that is one of the most powerful. this is why it is very important for us not to allow them to stand our ground because this battle, and it can happen, so there will be several battles
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and we don't know how long it is going to take, can influence the course of the whole war, because i don't trust the russian military and russian leadership. that is why we understand that the fact that we fought them off and they left and they were running away from kyiv, from the north, from chernihiv and from that direction, it doesn't mean if they're able to capture donbas, they won't come further towards kyiv. that is why for us this battle is very important for many reasons. it is very important to win this battle. >> the director of the cia warned that he's worried putin might use a tactical nuclear weapon in this fight. are you worried? >> not only me. i think all of the world, all
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the countries have to be worried because you know it can be not real information, but it can be the truth because when they begin to speak about one or another battles, enemies or nuclear weapons or some chemical issues, chemical weapons, they should do it, they could do it. they can. for them, life of the people is nothing. that's why. not be afraid. don't be afraid. be ready, but that is not a question to ukraine, and not only for ukraine, for all the world. i think so. >> translator: there is a possibility of them using these weapons. nobody expected there to be a full-scale invasion of ukraine from the russian federation. no one expected there to be a war in 2014.
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now that there will be a full-scale invasion and killing of civilians, nobody expected them to evade the areas where there's no military equipment and just kill and shoot dead a civilian population. nobody expected that. but this is a fact, and it happened, and that is when russia gives information and says, if something goes not according to plan, they can use chemical weapons and their nuclear potential. and that is why i believe these are dangerous claims of untrustworthy people. if we believe some of them are already untrustworthy, then they can use nuclear weapons. >> how bad are things in mariupol, and what can be done to help the people of mariupol? >> translator: the situation is very difficult in mariupol. it's clear that things won't get better. with each passing day it's
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growing more unstable. unfortunately, it is difficult for different reasons. i will not talk about the cruelty with which the russian authorities have treated mariupol, the russian military. there are two components. no one knows how many people died among the civilian population. if anyone gives you a figure, it would be a total lie. hundreds of thousands were evacuated. several thousand, tens of thousands were forced to evacuate in the direction of the russian federation, and we do not know where they are. they've left no document trail, and among them are several thousands of children. we want to know what happened to them, whether they're in good health. unfortunately, there just isn't any information on this, and regarding what population has remained there, we also don't have a definitive answer. one day they say there are 50,000 or 60,000, and then another day someone says 100,000.
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now we have information that perhaps 10,000 people have died there, all civilians who stayed. we're talking about civilian deaths, not military. >> about 5,000 children deported from this region to russian side because they didn't allow them to go to the ukrainian side, ukrainian-controlled side. so we don't know the children, where are they. nobody knows. that's why i said the question is more than difficult and more than complicated. so a lot of information which we have to check and which we don't know exactly. >> do you have any idea how many ukrainian soldiers or ukrainian civilians have been killed? >> translator: as of now, based
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on the information we have, because it is very difficult to talk about civilians, since south of our country where the towns and cities are blocked, kherson, donetsk, mariupol, further east in the area to the east, we just don't know how many people have died in that area that is blocked. let's take volnovakha. volnovakha and other towns are empty. they are all destroyed. there are no people there, so it's difficult to talk about it now. as to our military, out of the numbers we have, we think that we lost 2,500 to 3,000, in comparison with the russian
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military who lost about 19,000 to 20,000. that's the comparison, but we have about 10,000 injured, and it's hard to say how many will survive. president biden is considering whether to send a top u.s. official to visit ukraine. who does president zelenskyy want to visit? that's next. plus, the personal side. zelenskyy is also raising two kids with his wife while he leads a country through war. we're going to talk about how his kids are doing. that's coming up .
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper live in lviv, ukraine. we've been hearing these
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horrifying stories about the barbaric treatment perpetrated on the ukrainians. president zelenskyy talked about how he thinks russia should be punished. i have to warn you some of the images you're about to see are rather graphic and disturbing. >> i'm sure you've seen the video of the ukrainian mom finding her son in a well. what is it like for you as the president of this country to see those videos, to hear the crying of the moms? >> translator: this is the most horrifying thing i have seen in my life. i look at this, first of all, as a father. it hurts so, so much. it's a tragedy. it is suffering. i won't be able to imagine the scale of suffering of these
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people, of this woman. it is a family's tragedy. it is a disaster. it was the dreams and the life you've just lost. we live for our kids, that's true. kids are the best we were given by god, by family. it is a great pain for me. i can't watch it as a father, only because all you want after this is revenge and to kill. i have to watch it as the president of the state where a lot of people have died and lost their loved ones. there are millions of people who want to live. all of us want to fight.
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but we all have to do our best for this war not to be endless. the longer it is, the more we would lose. all these losses will be just like that one. i'm not sure -- i'm not confident that when we say we'll do our best for these mothers to feel the government is taking care of them. i do not believe this wound can be treated or forgotten somehow. i'm not sure anyone can help this woman. i'm not sure. i'm not sure. i think people have lost the best they had. it is the outcome of russia's war. they came and took away the most important things people had.
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be i know these people are heroic, but are my words going to give them peace? no. there's just great pain. we can all work on how to rebuild apartments and houses and compensate them. how do you compensate for the loss of a child? i don't think anyone in the world has an answer for that. there is a desire for justice through revenge, and that at least the people who did this would feel the same pain so that there will be some result, some outcome, so they are punished. >> you lost ancestors in the holocaust. every year on holocaust remembrance day, politicians put
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out statements that say never again, never again. those statements must seem really hollow right now to you. when the world says never again, do they ever mean it? >> i don't believe the words after we see what's going on in ukraine. i don't believe to this feeling that we should believe, to some countries or some leaders. we don't believe the words. after escalation of russia, we don't believe our neighbors. we don't believe all of this. even i don't believe documents because we also had a budapest memorandum. i think you know all the details of this. for me that is just a piece of paper and costs nothing, and that's it. so we just believe pragmatic things.
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if you are our friends or partners, give us weapon, give us hand, give us support, give us money and stop russia, kick russia. you can do it. if you're a friend, if you think about this democracy and everything, yes, all these moments. we have the same sort if we are speaking about freedom, not because we want to have dialect about freedom. if we are are really -- the same sort. >> translator: the only belief there is is belief in ourselves, in our people, belief in our armed forces and the belief that countries are going to support us, not just with their words, but with their actions, and that's it. >> never again --
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>> translator: really, everybody is talking about this, and yet, as you can see, not everyone has got the guts. >> president biden called what putin is doing here genocide. president macron of france said that he didn't think it was constructive to raise the rhetoric like that, that it wasn't healthy. what was your response to both biden and macron? >> translator: i have the same opinion as president biden and i immediately saw what was happening here, especially what happened in bucha and in the east of our country. i speak about this because russia calls it a military
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operation and not a war. but look what happened in bucha. it's clear that is not even a war. it's a genocide. they just killed people. not soldiers, people. they just shot people in the streets. people were riding bicycles, taking the bus, or just walking down the street. there were corpses lying in the streets. these were not soldiers, they were civilians. they bound their hands, they forced children to watch as they raped their mothers. then they threw them in a well or in mass graves, children, adults, the elderly, and we have substantial evidence that points to this being a genocide. audio and video, where they talk about just how much they hate us. i did not even know there was such hatred of the russian military for the ukrainian people. they say they're going to
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destroy us. just to steal a toilet and a washing machine from an apartment, they shot an entire family. that is genocide. as far as emmanuel, i talked to him yesterday. i think he wants to take some steps to ensure that russia engages in dialogue. i just told him i want him to understand that this is not war, but nothing other than genocide. i invited him to come when he will have the opportunity. he'll come and see, and i'm sure he will understand. >> do you want president biden to come here? >> yes. >> are there any plans for him to come? >> i think he will. >> you think he will? >> i think he will. but it's his decision, of course, and about the safety situation, it depends.
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but i think he's the leader of the united states and that's why he should come here to see. >> what about the more than 4 million ukrainians who have left the country who are refugees, do you want them to come back? >> not now. i think not now. first of all, it's vulnerable women and children. they should come when the situation will be stabilized and when the war will finish, of course, because they will not help us now. it's not about the men. the men should be here and should fight, and then the families will come back, of course. i know the statistics about 93, 95% of those people, because of the war, they want to come back. >> president zelenskyy still
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wants to negotiate with russia. but after the atrocities at bucha, is there anything the ukrainian people would be willing to give up to putin? later, dave matthews has a new song in honor of refugees. he'll perform it for us for the first time. he'll talk about how we can all help. stay with us. frank is a fan of fast. he's a fast talker. a fast walker. thanks, gary. and for unexpected heartburn... frank is a fan of pepcid. it works in minutes. nexium 24 hour and prilosec otc can take one to four days to fully work. pepcid. strong relief for fans of fast. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ ♪ yeah, that's all me ♪
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper live in lviv, ukraine, as ukraine prepares for a difficult battle in the east.
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the u.s. is stepping up military assistance. is zelenskyy's goal to beat russia on the battlefield or to come to an agreement with putin at the negotiating table? >> president biden just agreed to another $800 million in military aid for ukraine, bringing the total american contribution to $2.5 billion. are you satisfied with that? do you need more? >> translator: of course we need more, but i am happy that he's helping us now. i feel that right now we're having a cleaner dialogue. it's been a dialogue that has had some twists and turns and not just talk. it's been very, very difficult because there aren't many countries that have really helped us. this assistance from the united states led by president biden, and they are doing it again today, but there will never be enough. enough isn't possible.
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there is a full-scale war ongoing today, so we still need a lot more than what we have today. unfortunately we do not have technical advantages over our enemy, just not on the same level there. but our people are stronger. that's our main advantage, and we know our mission, our objective, what we're fighting for. we're defending our country. all these families and the kids that we discussed before, we know what we stand for and from where we get our strength. but for biden's confirmed $800 million in support, what's most important is speed. >> the biden administration keeps saying that they're giving you this aid to put ukraine in a better negotiating position for a diplomatic solution. is that the goal, to put you in a better negotiating position, or is the goal to defeat russia and get them to leave? >> translator: we need to
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understand that what we want can come at a very high price, and in any case, all these years of war, where is the compromise coming from the russian federation? maybe we can end this war without any conditions. maybe the war can end without any dialogue or compromise and without sitting down at the negotiating table with the president of russia. and you'll understand daily, as i said before, what's the price of all this? it's people. the many people who have been killed. who ends up paying for all of this? it's ukraine, just us. so for us this is a really great cost. if there is an opportunity to speak, we'll speak, but to speak only a russian ultimatum, it's then a question about attitude towards us, not about whether the dialogue is good or bad.
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it's impossible. the sooner it happens, it's just that much less that are likely to die. it's not a fact that this would actually be the case. not at all. but it's possible, and therefore, we should try. we want to liberate our country, take back what's ours. we can fight the russian federation for ten years to take what's ours. we can go down such a path. you have to understand what you're doing, know your strength. remember that you're not fighting alone. can you imagine you would fight one-on-one with a very large state, one that's 28 times larger than us? in terms of territorial size and economy, and their army is larger, and one cannot fight on their character alone. to fight as one there needs to be equipment today or tomorrow, not in two or three months.
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some countries are just not offering assistance. they can send millions, but we could still lose our state. that's why one has to strike a balance, whether you want to or not. you are not the only hero. the people are the heroes, and we must protect their lives. the conditions must be humane if, in fact, that's even possible. we cannot give up our territory, but we must find at least some dialogue with russia if they are capable and if we are still ready. but the chances of this are growing less by the day. there comes a time when, think about bucha or borodyanka, volnovokha, our society doesn't want us to continue talks. this is a great tragedy. >> what do you say to people either in ukraine or elsewhere
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in the world who say just give putin the donbas, just give putin eastern ukraine, stop the bloodshed, let him have the territory, what would your message be about that? >> in the centuries-old history of ukraine, there is the story that ukraine has either taken some territory or needs to give up some territory. ukraine and the people of our state are absolutely clear. we don't want anyone else's territory and we are not going to give up our own. >> he's a leader, but he's also a dad who is worried about his family. i asked president zelenskyy about how they're coping, next. stay with us.
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper live in lviv, ukraine. as russian troops began their attack on ukraine almost two months ago, ukraine's president said he was russia's number one target and his family was a close second. so i asked president zelenskyy how his family is dealing with that strain as we were setting up the interview and later to reflect on passover and his legacy. >> how are your wife and kids? are they okay? >> okay, thanks so much. >> how old are your kids? >> my daughter is almost and son is 9. >> i have a 12-year-old boy and a 14-year-old girl. >> so you understand me -- we understand. >> yes. i call my daughter and she's like, can't talk, dad, very busy. >> not now. yes, i know. without knocking on the door, i
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can't speak with my own daughter, and that's good. >> i know you're not observant, but it's passover and it's the jewish celebration of freedom. i'm wondering if there is a message for, not just the jews of ukraine, but all of ukraine in the message of resilience in difficulty and the freedom, the message of freedom. >> translator: i believe the way we fight for our freedom is the most important message, because you can send a lot of messages with words and they come from different people. but when it comes to actions, only a few act on their words. and today i believe ukrainian people show by their actions that they are fighting and protecting freedom, a principle of freedom, and principles are everywhere. and if our people won't be able to protect freedom in their own
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country, it will be a signal to all other countries that it is allowed, allowed to just come and stab, come and shoot, come and take other people's land. i believe the way our people act today is a signal to the whole world. >> there is a chance that you will not survive this war. the russians have made it clear that they consider you a nazi, et cetera, all that nonsense. how do you want the ukrainian people to remember you? how do you want your son and daughter to remember you? >> translator: a human being that loved life to the fullest and loved his family and loved his mother land. definitely not a hero. i want people to take me as i am, a regular human. >> you've inspired a lot of people, including not just here in ukraine but around the world. who inspires you?
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who are your heroes? whose story do you look to for inspiration during dark days here? >> only the people. i believe our people are genuine and unique, and i just can't afford to be worse than them. when in certain moments i feel like all of this is dangerous, i understand that all the rest of us are going through this as well. what people are feeling like who are in basements, who lost their children, what our soldiers feel like right now. and i understand i have to be the strongest one in this situation, and this is all. and the most important is the way my children look at me. they have to be proud of me. this is the most important thing. i do everything for this. >> is ukraine going to win this war? >> yes, of course, and will. >> thank you so much for your time, president zelenskyy.
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best of luck. best of luck with what you do. >> thank you so much. up next, we have something else unique and special on this sunday, dave matthews is going to debut a brand new song in support of refugees. we're going to talk about ways that you can help if you can. so stick around.
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wayfair has all the easy upgrades for your style from bathroom faucets to mirrors. with financing up to 60 months on qualifying orders, even your big projects are no big deal. because no one can make it yours quite like you. ♪ wayfair you got just what i need ♪ the united nations says more than 4.5 million refugees have fled ukraine since the start of the war. it's an enormous humanitarian crisis that's spurring so many people to try to help, including
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our next guest, dave matthews, who is trying to help the best way he knows how. dave, i know you've been really moved by the stories of the refugees from ukraine and frankly refugees from all over the world. >> well, first of all, thank you, jake, for having me. and thanks for your efforts right now to bring awareness to what's happening over there. my mom used to always say that war is sort of like madness, it's like -- it's like a cancer, it's like cells gone awry, suddenly we -- everything that -- that we really naturally care about, other humans and our family, gets torn apart and like it's happening right now where you are in ukraine, it's just unfathomable to those of us who are far from it, but it's not only happening there, it's happening in yemen, it's happening in myanmar, it's happening in nigeria, there's just so many places, afghanistan, where people are trying to just survive and it's violence that's not allowing them to. and terrible violence. so those of us, you know, so
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many of us are part of this chorus of people that are trying to -- or hoping that we can somehow turn the tide and so i thought i would just join in and in as many ways as possible raise people's awareness. so i got some friends together and play a song that i just finished writing that i think somehow pertains to it, but at least it pertains to all of us, it's called "something to tell my baby." thank you very much, jake. ♪ ♪ you know some day we're all going to leave here ♪
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♪ maybe sooner than we wanted ♪ ♪ it's special because it's fleeting ♪ ♪ all of the things that we did ♪ ♪ what do we leave behind us ♪ ♪ something that will remind them ♪ ♪ something that will make them smile ♪ ♪ when they think about it ♪ ♪ something to tell my baby ♪ ♪ something she can reach for ♪ ♪ we all need to hold on to ♪ ♪ when we're trying to believe in ♪ ♪ stuff that dreams are made of ♪ ♪ a cut that just won't heal ♪ ♪ the smoke after the fire ♪ ♪ as long as we remember ♪
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♪ it says good as real ♪ ♪ good as real ♪ ♪ it's something to keep us hopeful ♪ ♪ something to tell my baby ♪ ♪ forever at the end ♪ ♪ possible but just maybe ♪ ♪ when you think about it ♪ ♪ it's something to remind them that's going to make them smile ♪ ♪ and maybe make things easier ♪ ♪ something to tell my baby ♪ ♪
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>> thanks again, jake. hey, i just wanted to say there's so many organizations, maybe you can put them on the screen, but like the irc and, you know, world central kitchen, jose andre's, you know, there are so many great organizations that can help, you know, are helping in different ways to try to alleviate the suffering of people around the world and there in ukraine. everybody do what you can, you know? and let's take care of each other because what's the point otherwise? >> dave, thank you so much. that was so special and moving. i have up on the screen right
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now one way viewers can donate to world central kitchen and to dozens of others of worthwhile accredited charities. please visit experts are now predicting that this horrific war might last the whole year, if not longer, and i'm worried that folks around the world might already be starting to shrug and hold up their hands in frustration and even turn away as we do, as the world does, so dishonoring the promise of never again. let's try to pledge to each other right now on this easter, on this passover, on this ramadan, to try and not retreat into the numb safety of looking away. the people of ukraine, like those of yemen and syria and myanmar and darfor and rwanda and bosnia and herzegovina and cambodia, they deserve at the very least our attention. fareed zakaria is up next.
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this is "gps," the "global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world, i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, russia threatens to send nuclear weapons to its western borders, not to deal with ukraine, but rather finland and sweden, who may soon ask for nato membership. what happens if they do? i will talk to sweden's former


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