tv At This Hour With Kate Bolduan CNN April 26, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PDT
everything that they can to help ukraine win and also to not just stop russia there. but also weaken russia going forward. defense secretary lloyd austin just wrapped a meet with dozens of his international counterparts in germany. austin will be holding a press conference in just moments. we're standing by for that and we're going to bring it to you as soon as it begins. the tough talk is also coming from moscow. russia's foreign minister a accusing nato of engaging in a proxy war by arming ukraine. and he warned that the threat of nuclear war should not be underestimated. the u.n. secretary-general is in moscow this morning meeting with vladimir putin. and in ukraine, russian forces continue to pound the eastern part of the country. the mayor of mariupol now says that three mass graves have been found near the city. let's begin in germany. orrin lieberman is live at ramstein air base there. what are we expecting to hear from secretary austin after these really big meetings?
>> kate, one of the important messages here and we heard it from lloyd austin in his opening remarks was a show of unity. not just from europe, not just from nato but from the western world and beyond. more than 40 countries coming here, not only sitting together but discussing what can be done to support ukraine and support what many see here as an international rules-based order. that's what is at stake here and they've made that clear. this is bigger than just the u.s. or the uk or ukraine. it's the world order that's at stake and that's why this is such a fundamental discussion and that was clear in an interview my colleague jim sciutto just wrapped up with the chairman of the joint staffs, general mark milley and what we heard from austin. >> at the end of the day, what we want to see, what i think the policy of all of the governments together is a free and independent ukraine with their territory intact and their government standing and the russian aggression has been halted and stopped. and at the end of the day, i think that's going to involve a
weakened russia, a strengthened nato. >> russia's invasion is indefensible. and so are russian atrocities. ukraine clearly believes that it can win. and so does everyone here. we want to see russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading ukraine. >> you hear there the stronger rhetoric and stronger beliefs that ukraine can win this, contingent upon the u.s. and others continuing to flow in the ammunition and the weapons that has made it possible for ukraine to hold up at this point. into the third month of fighting as we watch all of this unfold and the focus shifts to southeast ukraine. one of the things we're looking for over the past couple of days or weeks, we've seen countries willing to send in bigger and more powerful weapons such as the howitzers. will we see more of that here? we already saw the germans announce they'll send in 50 jet part armored anti-aircraft
vehicles. that's sort of pressure, that sort of movement beginning to build upon itself as the u.s. and others show that willingness to arm ukraine. one of the other key questions here, ukraine uses mostly older soviet-era weaponry. there's a discussion about how to transition them and how to train them on more modern nato-capable weaponry. that's been a part of the question here as well as we get ready for the press conference from lloyd austin expected to start any moment. >> excellent points you are making of what's already come from this gathering of defense ministers. much more to come, of course, as we stand by to hear from the defense secretary himself. oren, thank you. let's turn to moscow where the u.n. secretary-general is meeting with president putin. it comes as the kremlin is leveling a new accusation to deflect from its unprovoked attack on ukraine. cnn's nic robertson is live in brussels and joins us now. what are you hearing about this? >> yeah, lavrov is saying that ukrainian government has no
interest in negotiations because those countries, and he was referring to the united states, that are calling for the defeat of russia and here he's referencing what you heard from secretary of defense lloyd austin, about detrading russia's capability. those calling for russia's defeat, lavrov said, are stuffing ukraine full of weapons. it seems that the russian leadership has woken up to the fact that the rest of the world isn't going to stand back and let them trample over ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. as it seems as if the russian leadership seems to think they have a right to do. and this is what lavrov is referring to. we've heard them talk about this before, but it seems to be that they are finally realizing that ukraine has security partners and allies and they are actually becoming a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield which is why there is perhaps these talks in moscow with the u.n. secretary-general, no real immediate path to peace because the battlefield is still the
objective. but sergey lavrov just yesterday doubling down on what russia has spoken about its nuclear options in the past saying that russia has a principled position but this, the nuclear option is a real danger, his words here. >> translator: a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. the danger is serious and real. and it should not be underestimated. >> sergey lavrov there laying the groundwork for what's going to be a tough talk with president putin for the secretary-general of the united nations. kate? >> nic, thank you. let's go back to germany right now. u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin has just begun his press conference. let's listen in. >> we've had some great discussions and a lot of rich interactions among leaders throughout the day.
so let me again thank all of the ministers and the chiefs of defense and your teams for joining us today. especially my good friend, ukraine's minister of defense, minister reznikov and his delegation. great to see him. we're all coming away with a transparent and shared understanding of the challenge that ukrainians face. and i know that we're all determined to help ukraine win today and build strength for tomorrow. the work that we've done together in record time has made a huge difference on the battlefield. president zelenskyy made that clear when we met sunday in kyiv. and countries all around the world have been stepping up to meet ukraine's urgent needs. and i wanted to especially welcome a major decision by our
german hosts as minister longbrecht announced just today that germany will send ukraine some 50 cheetah anti-aircraft systems. and yesterday, of course, the british government announced that it would provide ukraine with additional anti--aircraft capabilities as well. and today, canada announced that it will send ukraine eight armored vehicles. and so that's important progress. we're seeing more every day. and i applaud all the countries that have risen and are rising to meet this demand. we don't have any time to waste. the briefings today laid out clearly why the coming weeks will be so crucial for ukraine. so we've got to move at the speed of war. and i know that all the leaders leave today more resolved than
ever to support ukraine in its fight against russian aggression and atrocities. and i know that we're all determined to do even more to better coordinate our efforts. so i was especially glad to hear general walters encourage us all to make more determined use of ucoms' coordination mechanism. now that -- to ensure that we continue to build on our progress, we're going to extend this forum beyond today. i'm proud to announce that today's gathering will become a monthly contact group on ukraine's self-defense. and the contact group will be a vehicle for nations of goodwill to intensify our efforts and coordinate our assistance and focus on winning today's fight and the struggles to come. the month ly meetings may be in
person, virtual or mixed, and they'll extend the transparency, the integration and the dialogue that we saw today. and let me underscore another key point. we held an important session today on the long-term support for ukraine's defenses. including what that will take from our defense industrial bases. and that means dealing with the tremendous demand that we're facing for munitions and weapons platforms. and giving our staunch support to ukraine while also meeting our own requirements and those of our allies and partners. but it also means redoubling our common efforts to strengthen ukraine's military for the long haul. and i look forward to our discussions in the contact group and elsewhere about how to get that done right.
let me again thank all of the countries who came together today. they've done crucial work. and they sent a powerful signal. we're going to build on today's progress and continue to reach out to nations of goodwill to help ukraine defend itself. and we'll continue working transparentall ally and urgentl with our allies and partners, and we'll continue pushing to support and strengthen the ukrainian military for the battles ahead. so we leave tonight strengthened, and so does ukraine. and thank you, and i'll be glad to take your questions. >> thank you, mr. secretary. our first question today will come from silvia antone, afp. microphone? >> thank you. mr. secretary, actually, i have double question for you. moldova is stepping up its
security measures after a series of explosions in a region of transnistria. do you think there's a risk of spillover of the conflict to moldova? and my second question is, after this big meeting about arming ukraine, are you concerned that putin may become restless and threatened again to use a nuclear weapon? >> on the issue of spillover to moldova because of what we see here, reporting of recent violence, we're still looking to a cause of that. that's still doing analysis there. so not really sure what that's all about, but that's something that we'll stay focused on.
and certain ly we don't want to see any spillover, and again, it's important to make sure that we do everything that we can to ensure that ukraine is successful, and that's the best way to do that. and the second part of your question was? >> [ inaudible ]. >> you know, you heard us say a number of times that that kind of rhetoric is very dangerous and unhelpful. nobody wants to see a nuclear war happen. it's a war that, you know, where all sides lose. and so rattling of sabers and, you know, dangerous rhetoric is clearly unhelpful and something that we won't engage in. >> our next question goes to
suzanne from zdf. >> secretary, what aid do you expect from the german government? do you think the delivery of tanks is sufficient in your opinion? >> you mean cheetahs, which is what the -- >> yes. >> let me just say that -- and i think you probably heard me say this before as i visited germany, i consider germany to be a great friend and an ally. you know, we've served -- i've served in germany as an officer, and worked with german forces and i -- it's always been a real pleasure to work alongside our german partners here. now i think it's significant that, you know, germany announced it was going to provide 50 cheetah systems. i think those systems will provide real capability for ukraine.
and in terms of what else germany will do going forward, that's a sovereign decision, one that the german leadership will make. and i don't want to speculate on that. i just believe that just based upon everything that i have seen in my interaction with the minister of defense and how intently she's been focused on making sure that she can do everything that she can to help and work alongside her partners and allies that she'll continue to look for ways to be relevant and provide good capability to the ukrainians as they continue to prosecute this fight. >> the next question goes to john ismay, "new york times." >> mr. secretary, yesterday you mentioned that one of the united states' goals in ukraine now was to see russia weakened. can you explain more fully what that means and specifically what do you want to weaken and how
you would measure success in that regard? >> john, so i think we've been clear from the outset. we do want to make it harder for russia to threaten its neighbors and leave them less able to do that. if you look at what's transpired here in this 62 days or so that the ukraine and russia have been involved in this struggle here, russia has, in terms of its land forces, the land forces have been -- casualties are pretty substantial. they've lost a lot of equipment. they've used a lot of precision-guided munitions. they've lost a major surface combatant. and so they are, in fact, in terms of military capability, weaker than when this started. you know, john, it will be harder for them to replace some of this capability as they go
forward because of the sanctions and the trade restrictions that have been placed on them. and so we would like to make sure, again, that they don't have the same type of capability to bully their neighbors that we saw at the outset of this conflict. >> next question goes to utz from ard. >> hello. how can we guarantee safety and security in ukraine in the future? is it possible that ukraine becomes member of nato? >> that's, again, that will be a sovereign decision. i think that nato will always stand by its principles of maintaining an open door. so i don't want to speculate on what could come.
i do believe that in the future if the possibility exists, ukraine will seek to once again apply to become a member of nato. but again, that's probably a bit down the road and speculation at this point is not very helpful. i think the first step is to end this conflict. and i think that what needs to happen to cause the conflict to come to an end is mr. putin needs to make a decision to end this conflict. he's the person that started it. it was unjustified. and, of course, it will be his decision to de-escalate and then go back to the negotiating table. and we really all would like to see that happen. >> okay. and the last question of the day, mindful of our time, goes to oova dreesen from tv 2 denmark. >> thanks. mr. secretary, the russian
foreign minister has warned that there's a danger of third world war and there's real danger of nuclear weapons being used in the present situation. are you not afraid that the conflict will somehow spin out of control and will have this nuclear confrontation? >> well, we certainly will do everything within our power and ukraine will have the same approach, do everything within their power. the international community is focused on that, as well. again, i think this -- any bluster about the use of nuclear -- possibility of use of nuclear weapons is very dangerous and unhelpful. nobody wants to see a nuclear war. nobody can win that. and as we do things and as we take action, we're always mindful of making sure we have the right balance and are taking the right approach.
so there's always a possibility that a number of things can happen, but, you know, again, i think it's unhelpful and dangerous to rattle sabers and speculate about the use of nuclear weapons. thanks. >> thank you all. and that's all the time we have for today's press conference. we really appreciate you all coming. thank you. >> that is is the u.s. secretary of defense, lloyd austin, after a meeting of -- with dozens of his international counterparts at ramstein air base in germany about how they can further better support, train and prepare and back up ukraine in this war with russia. joining me is cnn correspondent scott mclean. he's in lviv. also cnn military analyst, retired general mark hertling and national security analyst steve hall, a former cia chief of russian operations. let's start in lviv. scott, how is -- everything that we just heard from the secretary
of defense, what is that going to mean on the ground there? >> well, i think the thing that stood out to me is what the defense secretary was saying about, look, for this conflict to end, it has to be ended with a decision from vladimir putin. on the ground, it seems like this conflict could go on for some time. there's heavy fighting in the east of the country. heavy fighting in the south of the country. the russians seem to be digging in, regrouping for a long offensive. the ukrainians seem to be repelling them in some places but not in others. and so it doesn't seem like any one side on the ground here has an obvious advantage or is set to easily overwhelm the other any time soon. the russians are resorting to bombing the western parts of the country. they just took out a bridge in the southern part of the country which connects the far southwest of ukraine to the rest of the country, essentially isolating it. the only way you can get there is through moldova. and so it doesn't seem at this
stage of the game like there's a lot that they can do around negotiations in order to end this, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite for negotiations. even earlier today, the russians seem to indicate the ukrainians don't seem that interested. the ukrainians have said much of the same. so i wouldn't be holding my breath at this stage of the game to see a negotiated settlement any time soon. it seems to be lloyd austin's perspective that it really may come down to vladimir putin's choice. >> general hertling, what stuck out to you from what we just heard from the defense secretary? >> a couple of things, kate. the first was the fact there were 40 or so ministers and chiefs of defenses at this meeting. when you account for the 30 members of nato, there's about 49 countries, some larger than others within europe. but the fact that the secretary also mentioned other ministers and chiefs of defenses from around the world. and we could probably name a couple of them. i know japan and australia were likely there. but the fact that so many global
partners have come together to stand against vladimir putin's illegal war in ukraine was critically important. the second thing is the secretary made a special call out of germany, citing the fact that they were going to give the air defense system, he was calling them the cheetahs. they are known by both names. but that's saying, hey, we're getting some of the european nations that have stayed behind in this group of people who are supporting ukraine. but the third thing, the fact that they almost have a tag line of win today and build for tomorrow, what they are talking about is getting the vehicles, the ammunition, the equipment, the support today that will help ukraine stand up. and then potentially having them transform their military like other nations in europe have done. poland, latvia, lithuania, into a modern force. all of that is critically important and sends a huge message not only to putin but to
ukraine and the rest of the world that there are a lot of nations standing behind this nation as they fight for their sovereignty. >> absolutely. and steve, what do you make of the message to putin from secretary austin just in this press conference, but also we heard from the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff speaking to my colleague jim sciutto last hour. in speaking very directly that the future holds a weakened russia. that is now a goal of the united states. what impact do you think that has on vladimir putin? >> it's hard to overstate the impact. i'd like to reiterate mark's first point. you have 40 countries plus sitting together and saying russia must be stopped. what's happening in ukraine is horrific. not only is it terrible in ukraine but russia must be weakened so that it can't do this again. i mean, words speak loudly. obviously, if putin listens and has people briefing him on what's being said, but the
actions. it's difficult to imagine just two, three months ago, that -- let alone two, three years ago, that this level of unity, geopolitical unity against russia and against vladimir putin's actions, i mean, it's exactly the opposite of what he wanted. we say that a lot, but it's just breathtaking when you see, it's almost as though if you said to putin, all right, what would you do that could cause the exact opposite of what you want there to be? a divided nato. a divided west. weakening of russia. and plot something out. and if he said, i'm going to invade ukraine, who would have thought this would happen? it's really amazing the geopolitical strength that's being arrayed against russia right now. it's going to make them weaker. that's obviously not what putin wanted. >> and it goes -- and to your point, steve, and general, i wanted your opinion on this, which is lloyd austin also said this isn't just one round of meetings. this is now, as he described it, this will become a monthly contact group. this is, as you are talking about, this is a -- he's
signaling at least i hear, this is a long-standing commitment that all of these nations and leaders are committing to. >> i think there are some that think the west will become tired of watching this. tired of watching a nation be decimated by a foreign invader, a criminal foreign invader. and that's not what is happening right now. the world is coming together. austin says we're going to do these monthly meetings. we're building up a defense industrial base to support it. that was also another important element of this because there's a lot of weapon systems right now going into ukraine to defend themselves. all of these things, as steve said, are critical. we have not seen the nations of the world come together like this ever before. when you're talking about going back to world war ii where there was an axis of nazi germny, italy and japan taking on the entire world, that was at least
a cabal, an ax, is, if you will and it took awhile to get a coalition against them. you have a coalition right now against one country. one country that's doing something evil and the message is loud and clear. the fact that the u.n. secretary-general is there today probably to tell putin, will you stop this illegal invasion is critically important as well. the world is against putin and against russia right now. >> thank you all so much for being here. it's an important moment and an important day and great to have you all. really appreciate it. coming up for us, also a cnn exclusive. thousands of text messages handed over by donald trump's former chief of staff. a realtime window into the extensive conversations by trump's allies to try to overturn the 2020 election. details on that next. it's an invigorating rush... ...zapping millions of germs in seconds. for that one-o-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves yoyou feeling... ahahhhhhhh listerine. f feel the whoa! welcome to the eat fresh refresh atat subway
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now to a new exclusive report from cnn. my colleagues obtaining more than 2,000 text messages that former trump chief of staff mark meadows handed over to the congressional committee investigating the capitol insurrection. the messages were sent and received before and after the violent attack on the u.s. capitol. they offer up a realtime picture of the conversations, at least some of the conversations among trump's inner circle and lawmakers around january 6th. cnn's katlyn polans is live in washington with more on this. tell us more about exactly what these messages get at. >> kate, this really is the big picture that we're seeing here. correspondent jamie gangel got access to the text messages and it's 2,000 text messages that meadows voluntarily turned over to the house committee and the house select committee now will be looking at as they try to understand what happened inside the west wing on january 6th.
and as you read through these, which we now can, we're left with very dominant impression that many, many top republicans, more than 40 current and former members of congress, people who were very close to donald trump in the campaign, in the administration, former officials, even his family, those people all believed that meadows, in realtime, would have the ear of donald trump, could get messages to him and could control what trump was saying publicly and what he was doing. or at least they hoped so. so there's two i want to point out particularly. these are two messages where marjorie taylor greene, who is a representative and jason miller who is a campaign official are texting mark meadows about what they wanted trump to do. on january 6th, let's start with jason miller's text. miller texts meadows and dan scavino, call me crazy, but ideas for two tweets from potus. this is on january 6th, during the insurrection. one, here's one tweet.
bad apples, likely antifa or other crazed leftists infiltrated today's peaceful protest over the fraudulent vote count. violence is never acceptable. maga members embrace police and the rule of law. or two, the fake news media who encouraged this summer's violence. they should head home. those were the proposed tweets from jason miller. obviously the people who did attack the capitol were trump supporters. we've learned that in many, many criminal cases so far and marjorie taylor greene separately was asking in a separate tweet about trump potentially bringing up martial law or using martial law and to classify things to attack biden days before the inauguration. so this is what we have here. this is what we're seeing from meadows. and there are text messages he's still holding back that the committee does not have yet. >> katelyn, thank you.
joining me is co-anchor of "state of the union," dana bash and jennifer rogers. what do you see here? i'm asking a very broad question because there are 2,300 text messages. what do you see? >> just in what katelyn just read from jason miller, the obvious attempt to spin didn't reach a tweet from the then president, but that was immediately the thing -- the kinds of things we did hear from trump supporters who were speaking out publicly trying, falsely, to blame it on so-called antifa when as katelyn said, we knew then and definitely know now because it's gone through several court proceedings and that is just not true. they were trump supporters full stop. but even more broadly, what so many of these text messages to mark meadows, particularly on january 6th, from sitting members of congress,
republicans, even marjorie taylor greene were saying at the time, as they were actually being traumatized and frankly terrorized because they were in the building, saying, please get them to stop. this is not right. in the moment, they understood what was happening. and probably even now in their heart of hearts they knew exactly what was happening. that this was an insurrection. this was absolutely the wrong thing to do. but as soon as that washed over them, that feeling of a human feeling of being so scared and the fear was gone, then they went back to their political games which is trying to pretend what they witnessed and what they experienced didn't happen. and so it's so stark to actually see that in black and white. >> and also in terms of the conversations, jennifer, around efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
there sore many different kinds of conversations in these thousands of text messages and any legal exposure, if any, would depend on the conversation, the exposure, of course, but what texts could be a problem, could cross the line? >> first of all, these are new to all of us, but the committee has had them since december. they've already been working on this information. what's interesting to me is that they haven't seemed to push to see more of these congresspeople and other trump supporters in person, in testimony, so i'm a little concerned about that. but the answer to your question is, they are going to be looking at these potential conspiracy members, right? starting with right after the election when they start talking about alternate slates of electors, court challenges. but the point is how are they going to make cases proving conspiracies to interfere with congress, which many insurrectionists have already been charged with, and then a potential broader conspiracy against the united states that would involve the overturning of the election writ large.
these alternate slate of electors would be a big part of it. those people on texts talking about, let's talk about alternate slates of electors in important states. those are the people who should be most worried right now. >> like marjorie taylor greene, for one example. she said during a court hearing just last week, it was an administrative hearing. she literally says she doesn't remember having any conversations pushing for martial law. we see in these conversations she's talking about martial law. she was under oath at this hearing last week. separate and now kind of like new issue could pop up because she was under oath at this hearing. is that a problem? what kind of problem is it for her? >> in theory, that's a perjury problem. testifying under oath. it's hard to prove perjury if the statement is, i don't recall. you have to prove the falsity of the statement made under oath. you have to prove she doesn't remember it. and that's very hard to do. i expect while it's embarrassing for her, while the fact that
judge now knows she almost certainly wasn't truthful and he'll consider that in his rulings, it won't mean a perjury prosecution for her. >> good to see you, jennifer. dana, thank you. great to see you. coming up for us, millions of americans take aspirin every day to lower their risk of heart disease. a new recommendation just out this hour may change all of that. the breaking details ahead. you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidate matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire
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in theaters june 10th. want to return to our breaking news this hour, which was defense secretary lloyd austin saying during this press conference, after meeting with his counterparts from dozens of countries about ukraine, austin saying allies will be meeting monthly to intensify efforts and coordinate assistance against russia's unprovoked war. joining me now is igor, the chief diplomatic adviser to ukrainian president zelenskyy. igor, thank you for being here. we just heard from the defense secretary about this, committing to monthly meetings with 40-plus other countries to focus on how best to coordinate aid and support to ukraine. what does that mean to you? >> very positive statement of defense secretary, especially
coming after his personal visit to kyiv together with secretary of state meeting my president and giving the same messages that the u.s. government will be more stronger and more effective and more swift in providing ukraine with most necessary weapon it needs. so we're absolutely viewing this positively, this meeting of today and this statement. we really need arms in order to be more strong and safe? the battles ahead of ukraine. definitely the battle over donbas where russia is concentrating its troops and wanting to have a major offensive in the donbas, which russia is trying to capture since 2014. we also need the weapons to block the city of mariupol. so, yes, absolutely positive development of events. >> also happening today, we were seeing that the u.n. secretary-general is meeting with vladimir putin in moscow. i've seen that you said this
meeting with putin was not a good idea. why? >> well, i don't know which signals u.n. secretary-general will deliver in russia. politically, the role of the united nations would be stronger, i think, as well as the humanitarian role of the united nations in ukraine should be stronger. so i mean, any visit is positive and any efforts to bring peace to ukraine is positive, but you have to understand what are the results. can you really achieve the results? hopefully, hopefully this time it will be a -- visit but we saw the attempts of many foreign leaders to be mediators in establishing the diplomatic solution of this war and once again ukraine is ready for the diplomatic solution in this war. but unfortunately, before that,
no one was able to convince the leadership of russia to be more serious about negotiations. no one was able to convince president putin to sit at the negotiation table with my president and to discuss the end of the war. >> because after he leaves moscow, the u.n. secretary-general is coming to ukraine. what will president zelenskyy say to him when he arrives? >> well, if a meeting happens between my president and the u.n. secretary-general, my president will be more demanding on the part of both secretary-general person and the u.n. as an institution. you heard his speech during the last u.n. security council meeting. the united nations is an institution and secretary-general can do more in order to be helpful in politically -- both politically and economically to defend ukraine against russian aggression. >> i wanted to ask you, igor,
president zelenskyy has been very clear that he believes one key to stopping russia is that europe more fully cut off oil and gas and cut themselves off from oil and gas imports from russia. the german chancellor said in a new interview that he does not believe that would end the war. i want to read the quote from the german chancellor. he said, i absolutely do not see how a gas embargo would end the war. if putin were open to economic arguments, he would never have begun this crazy war. what do you think of that? >> you know, even before the war, putin always boasted that sanctions do not influence ru russia's economy, which is absolutely not the case, and we see that current sanctions which have been already implemented. we are talking about germany. germany was active in implementing five packages of eu sanctions already but, really, the embargo on oil and gas is very important in a very important way. we have to cut off russian economy of being able to earn more euros or u.s. dollars which
they immediately spend at the military defense industry and the military industry immediately produces more ballistic missiles, artillery systems, tanks, fighter jets which continue to kill ukrainian civilians and ukrainian soldiers. so sanctions is one of the two or three strongest components in order to win this war over russia. so besides the weapons which we were talking about already and besides the, for instance, inviting ukraine to become part of the european union, sanctions do matter. so that's why we need sanctions which have immediate implications. sanctions which will be implemented within 10 or five years. immediately sanctions which would have immediate effect on russian economy. >> igor zhovkva, thank you for coming in. >> thank you.
coming up for us, a major change to longstanding health recommendations to tell you about. why a panel of experts says people should not take aspirin every day to prevent heart disease. dr. sanjay gupta joins us next with the details.. ods i want to eat and i have lost 69 pouounds, james. you're just changing your mindset and shifting your eating habits. for me ww is all about flexibility. there's no restrictions. more knowing means more doing. do with ww. i'm reading your aura right now. it's telling me that ww works. get you first 3 months free today at ww.com offer ends may 2nd.
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developing, a major change in preventive medicine for millions of americans. the risks of taking aspirin are outweighing the benefits. the change impacts millions of who have been taking an aspirin a day for a long time. joining me now dr. sanjay gupta. this seems like a big shift. talk us through the new recommendations. >> this is a big shift, and you're talking close to maybe 30 million people who this may effect. people who may have been taking a low dose baby aspirin to try to prevent a first heart attack. when you think about that, that's close to one in ten adults, maybe more than that, who have been doing this for some time. the guidance has sort of been changing steadily over time basically balancing the risks of bleeding versus the prevention that it might provide in terms of heart disease or stroke.
let me show you. the big headline here is if you're over the age of 60, if you've been taking aspirin to basically, they say you should not start taking aspirin to prevent a heart attack or stroke. but they say has young as 40 to 59, if you have a risk of heart disease or significant risk, talk to your doctor about the benefits. let me tell you quickly, as many times as i reported on this, the next question is how do you know if you're at high risk or high risk enough for this? there are various risk calculators for this sort of thing. the american college of cardiology, you should go ahead and estimate your risk based on your own provile, your age, gender, my blood work, things like that. then you can figure out your risk over the next ten years of having heart disease. see what it means in terms of aspirin. they want to dial back, i think here the number of people who have been taking low dose aspirin to prevent a first heart
attack or stroke. >> and significant. this isn't another study not to diminish the study. this is a final recommendation. what does this mean for the millions of people who have been taking aspirin to try to lower their risk? >> that's a good question. you talk about this close to 30 million people who find themselves in this bucket, people who have not had a heart attack or stroke and are doing it for prevention. what was interesting is about a quarter of those nearly 30 million have been taking the aspirin on their own. and not -- without some sort of doctor's recommendation. there is no specific guidance here. i think clearly they're saying people over the age of 60 should not be starting aspirin for vengs. if you're falling into the earlier two decades, 40 to 59 which i'm in and have rask of heard disease, you have to talk to your doctor about that and do that risk calculator. people say i'm at risk. well, that's a quantifiable thing. how much is your risk really,
and then that might help you actually balance the benefits of taking a low dose aspirin versus the prevention. you got to keep in mind, people have often said it's an aspirin. how big a problem can that be? but the risk of bleeding, the risk of causing gi bleeding, the risk of bleeding elsewhere in ur your body, if you have trauma, can be significant. and that risk goes up as you get older. that's the balance. >> there is real risk. and there's now new representations to really take into account and consider. it's good to see you. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you all to much for joining us at this hour. i'm kate bolduan. "inside politics" starts after this quick break.
hello. welcome to "inside politics". i'm john king in washington. thank you for sharing your day with us. a blunt message to vladimir putin last hour from the american secretary of defense. lloyd austin highlighting new commitments from germany, canada, and from others to get heavier weaponry to ukraine, and secretary austin making clear a significant american strategy shift. the goal he says is to make sure vladimir putin not only loses in ukraine, but that his military is significantly degraded in the process. >> we do want to make it harder for russia to threaten its neighbors and leav