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tv   Don Lemon Tonight  CNN  May 4, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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>> thanks. >> i got to say, listen, i wanted to interview, i'm glad you got do interview. at least we had him on the air. the 2015 supreme court case legalizing same-sex marriage. he's concerned this draft ruling would put that right at risk. what did you make of your conve conversation? >> his argument is, judge aleto voted against same-sex marriage in that and if it came before the kcourt again, he says based on the roe ruling there's no reason he wouldn't vote against it again and it could be over turned. there's widespread support for same-sex marriage and the justice said it's not in the
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same category as roe v wade. i don't know where the truth lies on this. >> same thing people said about roe, that it would never be over turned. thank you. welcome back. this is don letmon on anothr night of major developments. we'll tell you about it. first up anger is spilling ut over the supreme court draft opinion that would over turn roe v wade after nearly 50 years of law of the land. you're looking at live pictures there. >> really.
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you think the whole issue is about a leak? this is about five extremist justice on the united states supreme court who, at least, two of them, swore up and down they cared about the rule of law and that roe v wade was well settled law and now they are just turning around and saying not really. >> it's a stunning reversal in american history that the court would take away a constitutional right after 50 years. >> i think about what would have happened had i not had the ability to have an abortion. what would have happened to me. what would have happened to that child. >> republicans calling the leak itself the problem. >> you need to concentrate on what the news is today, not a leaked draft but the fact that the draft was leaked. >> whoever did this leak should be prosecuted and should go to jail for a very long time. >> for someone to betray the
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trust that has been placed in them to support the work of the supreme court of the united states, this is unprecedented. >> so, what happens now is the question? what happens now? how much damage is all of this doing to the highest court in the land? we have new audio that you rae want to hear. it's kevin mccarthy discussing the 25th amendment on a call with gop leadership two days after the january 6th attack on the capitol and saying it would take too long. >> i think the options that have been cited by the democrats so far are the 25th amendment which is not exactly elegant solution. >> that takes too long. it go back to the house. >> correct. >> who is the real kevin mccarthy? >> i want to get right to the
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supreme court and the stunning draft opinion that would over turn roe v wade. we are hearing from senators concerned over the integrity of the court or whether some of the nominees were truthful in their confirmation hearings. watch this. we'll discuss. >> the concern about what it means within the court and whether or not people are trusting the integrity of the court that should concern all of us in terms of confidence. >> i don't think they were being honest. >> why do you say that? >> i think most of them said they were going to go with past precedent and that isn't the case. >> my question to you, senator, what will over turning roe mean for the integrity of the supreme court? >> you know, thanks for having me. i think it means an awful lot because we have seen and i think an erosion of the integrity of
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the issupreme court over the years. congress is making the confirmation progress. a lot of it is the court. clearly, the court is becoming more and more ecmbroiled in political issues and signing on partisan basis. what you just heard from the conversations and the confirmation hearing that a couple of these justices had where they made it very clear that this was not going to be an issue. it made a difference in some of the senators votes, at least a couple of the republican senators. certainly this is a huge crisis of confidence in the court. make no mistake, it's based on the ruling. yes, the leak is a problem, should be investigated, looked at but the decision that is apparently coming doe ing down assault on the women of america and that is the biggest problem that the supreme court has right now. >> let me jump in because is do
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we have false idea about the supreme court. isn't the supreme court inherently political. a liberal president. a more liberal judge. a republican president nominated conservative justices. isn't the court political and we keep pretending that it is not? >> no, i don't think we're pretending it's not. the court is always had an element of politics because that's how they get to the court. the fact of the matter is, as you look at precedent, as you look at stare decisis and how it's established for 50 years. if you take the court as a whole, going back to shelly county versus holder decision. going back to the principals that this court has done that has allowed dark money to come through. political gerrymandering.
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more importantly i think now you have to look at the courts use of a shadow dockdocket. those used to be reserve for death penalty cases. now the court is making law based on very little opinion. some no opinions. just a paragraph or two, not a full blown hearing. i think this court has a lot to look at itself because they are becoming more and more partisan and that's the biggest issue, i think. >> laura, i want you to weigh in. let me read this polling here and you can respond to what doug said and your response here as well. this a poll from march that shows 54% approve of the way the supreme court is handling its job. that's down in 60% in july of last year. between this rule and the leak, what is this doing to the perception of the supreme court? what happens if people no longer have faith in it?
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>> that's what the electorate is, perception is king. it's likely what happened in texas related to abortion. if it was any issue is issuprem court had precedent in, they would have sought to uphold it. while it was still the law of the land, no one but the court should be able to interfere. when you saw the end run around the precedent in texas, you had more than enough clues to suggest this area would be part of the legacy where they would say, hold on a second. i guess the precedent is only good as the curious or savvy legislative branch which is now how it's intended to be. given the perception of the court, there's this notion that you can over turn precedent that is allowed if it's wrongly decided. i point to plessy, decision
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involving japanese internment camps. it's different because of the amount of times it's been reaffirmed by society on these and the connective tissue being fundamental rights which i remind people, fundamental rights are following within a zone of privacy where the government ought not to be able to interfere. it runs the gammet from who you can love, who you can marry, who you can be in a relationship with. if those begin to chip away, he is trying to wall off and only look at abortion. it's hard to unring that bell. if you give a mouse a cookie, it's going to ask for a whole lot more. >> what is going to happen when the final ruling drops likely at the end of next month? is there still the possibility,
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the possibility that roe take a big hit but isn't totally over turned? >> that's always a possibility. remember, this leaked draft memo was drafted back in february. a lot could happen. i remind people it's may. it could be that only a couple eyes are going to be removed and t's uncrossed. it could very well be but the whole lift of roe v wade, the whole history of planned parenthood has been about the trimester frame work and when the state has a compelling interest in the unborn child. versus what the rights of pregnant woman are. that's been expanded to talk about any undue burdens not being able to be placed. if they're talking about no longer the week at which you can regulate abortion but an all out ban is decided, it could that roe v wade, if this final opinion is final, could be gone for as long as the legislative
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branch in congress fails to codify it. >> you're agreeing with that, doug. >> absolutely. there's no question. i really think that laura is right. a decision, a draft written in february and it's may, i don't think it's a coincidence. i think this is pretty much the decision. i can't give an idea of why somebody may have leaked this but clearly, i think this decision is going to stand pretty much as is. i could be wrong. i think it's r there. i think as she said, the ftea leaves are there. i think folks have to really be looking at this. it doesn't matter what justice alleto says it's only for this one case. it is not. there's a lot of other cases involving women's reproductive rights that are winding its way through the courts including the way that texas and now i think oklahoma are creating this vigilante justice. all those issues will be front and sevcenter as well.
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so many of the rights that we have come to expect in the country. the rights that come to rely on in this country and that's a real danger for us going forward. >> thank you so much. be well. senator, good to see you. thanks for joining us. >> good to be with you. >> access to abortion affects family, not just women. you shared a story about your family's experience after your then wife had a medical emergency. tell us what happened. >> it's a story that i think people need to hear. it's a story that impacts so many families all across our country. we had a situation where we had a child that was wanted. my first wife was pregnant but in the fourth movnth things wen badly. her water broke. we went to the doctor. the doctor said there's no way this baby would come to term. the fluid is not there to protect the baby. he sent her home to have a
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miscarriage. he said i can't do anything now. there's no way the baby will survive. we need to sepds you thoem wait for a miscarriage . you can imagine the trauma and the anxiety and the dispair that was felt. she went home. we waited ed all night. nothing happened. the next morning the doctor said, faint heartbeat. i can't perform a procedure here. we'll send you home again. wait for a miscarriage. all over again. the horror of going through that pch the third day we went band and the doctor said we have to do something here. i'm afraid you could go septic or lose the uterus. he said there's a faint hear heartbeat. i don't know why that's the case. the fetus shouldn't be leaving now. i will go do the hospital board and try to get approval to do an abortion. i will never forget. we went home.
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he left a message on our answering machine and said i went to the board. he goes i'm dismayed. the board refused my ability to do this. i'm afraid this could get serious and quick. you could lose your uterus or life. you need to find a doctor who can perform a procedure at a different location. he said this is not base d on medicine. it's based on politics. he apologized profusely. we had a friend who is an administrator at another hospital. he got us in meimmediately to t head of the doctor. the doctor said i have to do this procedure immediately. you're about ready to have serious complications and had that procedure done. it was clear if abortion is illegal, roe v wade is over turned and in michigan, all abortion is outlawed, with would be in a horrible situation and my wife, at the time, she could have lost her life. this is something that happens
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to families. when i shared this story, i had people all over the country call and say a similar story they had and the anxiguish. >> you shshared it with husband. >> absolutely. these are family decisions. this impacts families. it affects not just women but men as well and the men who love those women and this is been something that has certainly had a major impact on lives. i still think about it . still very hard to talk about. the comments i heard from people around the country is it's very difficult for them to talk about it and they were pleased to hear me talking about it because it brought them some comfort that other folks go through this. we have to realize this debate is very broad. it impacts families in so many ways and this supreme court decision, if it comes down the way it looks like it will come
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down will have major impact in people's lives and it's not going to be positive. >> listen, i would imagine you think that roe v wade should be codified into law. >> yes. >> what happens if you don't have the votes to do thad? what do you do? >> we immediate more voeks folk get the votes. that's why we have to win elections. there's no question this will be on the ballot. >> speaking of more votes, the story that you shared, republican families, women and men and husbands and families, i'm sure dealing with the same issues you and your wife dealt with. do they not think about this and could you win some of those people over by sharing their stories or appealing to them with what you had to go through and possibly maybe they did as well? >> absolutely. that's why i went public with this story. i'm talking to my colleagues about it. i hope we can get the votes. we'll put the votes on the floor
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of the senate. we will see where people are but folks have to understand that with roe v wade, if that's going to go away, there's no longer that protection in place. it's going to be incumbent on individual senators and representatives and state legislatures all across the country to make these laws work for every day people and folks are not going to be able to rely on a supreme court decision because of an activist republican court that saw fit to over turn 50 years of precedence in order to take back a right. the supreme court has never taken back rights. here we have rights being taken away from people after 50 years of precedent. what does that mean for the rights that people enjoy now. >> you might be able to win some of your republican colleagues over because in you look at how people feel about a woman's right to choose around the country, most people are
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somewhere in the middle. they are not with the extremes or losing it but they want some restriction on abortion. perhaps there's something there. >> absolutely. we have got to find that common ground. >> senator, thank you so much. thank you for sharing your story. i really appreciate it pch best of luck to you and your idwife. >> thank you. president joe biden taking aim at what he calls the maga crowd. we'll tell you what else. >> this maga crowd is the most extreme that's existed in recent american history. this is roundup weed and grass killerer with sure shot wand. this stuff works. this stuff works in flolower beds. this stuff works in tree rings. this stuff works in walkways, driveways, pathways.
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house correspondent. good evening. president biden launching a new attack line against the gop but not mentioning the former president by name. what's he saying? >> it seemed deliberate that president biden did not say president trump's name. he often refers to him as his predecessor. he seemed to go out of his way when speaking to reporters not mentioning trump's name. the white house says that's because trump will not be on the ballot come november. a lot of republicans who style themselves in trump way will be on the ballot. that is who biden is targeting given the concerns that democrats have about taking back the house. regaining a majority in the senate. president biden is sharpening his criticism of their economic philosophy and this seems to be about a preview of what president biden's campaign speech could be. >> if they had not put this in print, you would think i'm making it up.
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senator rick scott of florida, united states senator who is leading the republican national senate campaign committee released what he calls the ultra maga agenda. let me tell you about the ultra maga agenda. it's extreme as most maga things are. it will raise taxes on 75 million american families. over 95% of whom make less than $100,000 a year. >> now, he was talk about a proposal put forward by senator rick scott. that is something that former senate majority leader mitch mcconnell rejected in public say they fear that could hurt republicans who are going to be on the ballot this fall. you heard him say maga again and again. that seems to be ha the white house is previewing president biden will be doing in months leading up to the midterm. >> let's talk about him rebuking
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scott's plan. it includes a bunch of trumpian proposals like completing a border wall and naming it after the former president. what do you think is his strategy, divide the gop? >> he knows that midterm elections are almost always a referendum on the party in power and the president in particular. he's trying to turn this into a choice election. the rick scott proposal in familiar is an easy target for him and the impending supreme court decision could be a target. he's trying to turn this into a choice. >> smart? >> of course it's smart. it might not work but it's smart. the only other thing i would add is mitch mcconnell is smart guy. i can't imagine he was happy with rick scott's proposal because mcconnell knows the election, they don't want to make it a btabout the republica. they don't want to give the democrats anything to shoot at and senator scott gave the democrats a big target. i don't think it will be successful but it's the only
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option the democrats have. >> the president also taking on the supreme court draft decision knocking down roe v wade and bha that may mean for other right and laws across the country. listen and then we'll discuss. >> what happens if the state change the law sawing that children who are lgbtq can't be in classrooms with other children? is that legit under the way the decisions is written? what are next things that will be attacked because this maga crowd is really the most extreme political organization that's existed in american history, in recent american history. >> is this -- it's pretty sharp language from the president. it's the sharpest language we should expect from biden or do you think this is a taste of what's to come? maybe he's going to ratchet it up a bit? >> i think it is something who
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you will see him build up. the white house is kind of balancing how they talk about this draft opinion. they are trying to watch because the final opinion has not come out yet. that's not expected to come out for several more weeks. you are seeing the president make the argument that if this ruling stands as it was written in this draft that was published that it is going to endanger other rights that people have. it remaps ins to be seen what or laws will be pass. they will move to make abortion illegal in their states. we saw that alabama where i was yesterday. you saw state lawmakers already talking about that. the other thing the white house is balancing is what they will do if that's the final ruling. the president said he is tasked his team with coming up with options. the white house is not detailing those in public but said they would not be unvailed until the
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ruling is final in the supreme court. the president is calling the trump supporting wing the most extreme political organization that's existed in recrent american history. he talked about working with republicans. safe to say that era, to much people's criticism as well, is it safe to say that's over? >> it sounds that way. there's no question there are almosts that are extreme in the party.
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that's fair game. that's what i think the democrats will try to do. i don't know that they will be successful but they really don't have any other good options now. >> yeah. wow. yeah. i was just thinking, you just laid a whole lot down there. do you want to say something about that? >> i want to say the other side of this and what you heard from people like democratic senator joe manchin saying he still thinks inflation will be the driving factor in the midterms. that will be one of their biggest problems to deal with. they know the polling that they seen today including from cnn latest polling that the economy is the number one concern for voters. we'll see if that dhchanges now that we have seen the draft opinion.
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there hasn't been polling conducted in few days that happened. that's why you're seeing the president talking about paying down the national debt because they know what a concern that is for voters. >> i don't see a lot of republicans celebrating wa could happen in this draft is enacted and put into law. >> i was going to say i was the last pro-choice republican in the house, u.s. house and i was the last one to vote death sentence defunding planned parenthood. this is an issue where republicans know they are in a very defensive position for a very simple reason. the public is not with them on this one. they know it. that's why they are talking about the leak and not the sub s -- substance. this will change abortion politics. why not pass a bill to make abortion illegal in every state. i can see all -- what will they do about abortion, emergency
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contraception and all of that. this is not an issue they want to buck tae talk about. the supreme court was a backstop. now the backstop may have big holes in it. >> thank you both. : more audio, house republican leader kevin mccarthy talking about the president right after the insurrection. we'll play for it you. bongos thumping in my chest♪ ♪and something tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪ ♪he'd better not take the ring from me.♪ ♪("i've been everywhere" by johnny cash) ♪ ♪i've traveled every road in this here land!♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere, ma♪ ♪of travel i've had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪ (heartbeats) introducing icy hot pro. ice works fast... to freeze your pain and your doubt. heat makes it last. so you'll never sit this one out. new icy hot pro
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new tonight, two new york times reporters obtaining more audio of kevin mccarthy denouncing then president trump after the january 6 capitol attack. listen to what he said on a house gop call only two days after the insurrection. >> what the president did is atrocious and totally wrong. you're 12 days away. if you have an impeachment and stuck sits in the senate and he needs cabinet members, you have secretary of defense, and from the perspective you put anything else, the country very divided. i do think the impeachment divides the nation further and continues to divide it greater. that's why i want to reach out to president. i wanted to president to meet with biden. that's not going to happen. >> i want to bring in cnn senior
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legal analyst and a former federal and state prosecutor. good evening to you. here we go again. he calls trumps actions totally wrong and reaching out to biden. he's clearly worried about what might happen next. >> yeah, don. if i had the chance to question kevin mccarthy, the first question i would ask is wrong and atrocious. what actions did he take that you believe are wrong in this is why kevin should testify. he's not been subpoenaed by the january 6 committee. they asked him for his testimony. he's declined preponderance of the evidence unless and until they subpoena, we likely woepts hear from kevin mccarthy. he had an obligation to testify, as a minimum, as a witness. he had a clear vision of donald trump's conduct.
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>> another recording. we hear him talking with an aids who brings up invoking the 25th amendment against trump. watch. >> i think the options ta have been cited by the democrats so far are the 25th amendment which is not elegant solution here. >> that takes too long too. >> correct. if the president were to submit a letter over ruling the cabinet, it's kind of in our -- impeachment has been discussed. i think they want him to resign which i don't see happening either. >> the 25th amendment was under serious consideration. his only consideration is it would take too long. sd >> the 25th amendment provides for temporary removal of a president who is medically or
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physically incapacitated. we know he was not physically in inka pas at a timed. his reaction is it will take too long. that's really telling as to how clearly kevin mccarthy saw things in the days after january 6th. he's very much changed his tune but he needs to be questioned and why he thought ha he thought at the time. >> you said after january 6th. trump had only 12 more days in office and their concern was what trump might do if he stayed in power even for that short amount of time. >> yeah. it's telling they were seriously talking about the 25th amendment for about two weeks. it's an extraordinarily extreme remedy. it's never been used in the history of this country. let's bring ourselves back to those days after january 6th. it was legitimate question about is this president in the right state of mind to continue
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holding the office. >> what is all of this mean for the january 6th investigation? >> one of the big questions is will they ever subpoena their fellow members of congress? the answer seems to be no. their job and they have done a good job is to take us inside the key room, inside the portals of power, inside the white house and congress and tell us what were people doing and saying back then. it's so important that we focus on the reactions back then. by now, there's been times to circle the wagon, get the political talking point, get the spin out. that's fine. the truth is what happened back then. the truth is in the texts we're hearing and the committee needs to bring those out. >> thank you, sir. >> thanks. is this mariupol's last stand? we have the latest developments in ukraine, next.
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out-of-state corporations wrote an online sports betting plan they call "solutions for the homeless". really? the corporations take 90 percent of the profits. and using loopholes they wrote, they'd take even more. the corporations' own promotional costs, like free bets, taken from the homeless funds. and they'd get a refund on their $100 million license fee, taken from homeless funds, too. these guys didn't write a plan for the homeless. they wrote it for themselves.
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ukrainian forces continuing their push around russians of city of kharkiv. in the port city of mariupol the bloody battle taking a new turn as ukrainian commander says some russian forces have made sbiet the steel plant pch joining me now, cnn military analyst and retired general. good evening. thanks so much. >> good to be with you. >> kirby is saying a lot of what we talked about on this show. the west would be targeted. i want to start with the fighting in mariupol. the russians breached the perimeter but have been fought off. the u.s. is estimating there's
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2,000 russian soldiers still in mariupol. how significant would it be if they do catchpture the whole ci? >> it will give them the lines of communication, the line of supply they need from east and west and to north. i think it will continue to be just a savage, barbaric fight in that steel lants. the u.s. army had trained ongoing into caves where there's multiple layers. trying to get people out. we did that because of terrorist activity in afghanistan. it is extremely difficult to clear the area the size of this steel plant with the number of corridors, the six floors that go underneath the ground and the miles of opportunity for the fighters inside of the plant to continue to counter anybody that comes down a hallway, a stairway. it's going to be -- they can't
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bring tanks down sinto the places. it's going be a lot more fighting. i think it will go on for days and the russian forces will be held up there for much, much longer than they anticipate. putin said let's surround the place and leave it at that. the orders change. it's bad move to try to go inside and hunt these fighters still in there. >> it's amazing as i'm looking at the video we had up and the video we had on people who have been calling us and calling in and with video on camera from under ground bunkers. just the technology with this war. how much of it we're seeing is unprecedented. it's amazing to watch all of these images that come through. >> yeah. this only shows a small fraction of what occurs on the battlefield. we see that like over head pictures of tanks moving.
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that's a soda straw. you're only seeing one thing. you can't see the big picture from these kind of drones. you can't see maneuver units going different places. you can't see artillery landing. you can't see how intelligence affects what's happening on the battlefield. you can see the movement of a small, tactical element. that doesn't give a good picture of the kind of intense fighting that's going on. sdp >> you crukrainians are making progress. does this give them a chance to attack more russian supply line? >> yeah, you're seeing those actions near kharkiv being very aggressive. they are counter attacking. there are different estimates of how many kilometers, how many miles they have taken to the east of that city. it's obvious that it is disrupting the russian attacks in the donbas.
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they are trying to get around that force to surround them. they can't do it from the north or the south of mariupol. you see some of the russian attacks by artillery. it just is not good, don. i can tell from a commander's perspecti perspective. the artillery is not hitting what they are aiming at. it's very faulty. the maneuver forces are disjointed from the russian side and ukrainians are taking advantage of that and doing some good counter attacks and plus they know the ground. >> give me a short answer, yes or no. is it any surprise that they are targeting the west buecause that's where the weapons are coming in. >> they are targeting stationary points and it's coming on different routes. it's not going to have an affect. they may get lung i can and hit a con vi or may disrupt train
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schedule for a while. it's not going to affect the flow of logistics. >> thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> pleasure. another major member of the biden administration has covid. we'll tell you who. that's next. that's just growing. i feel kinder, when naturure is so kind to me. find more ways to grow with miracle-gro. ♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is at it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. my name is ami and i bought and financed my car through carvana. everything was all good but then things hit a slight snag. ok so they were trying to verify my employment status while i was at work, in a giant hole, in a mine.
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so new tonight, the secretary of state antony blinken has tested positive for covid-19. the state department is saying that secretary blinken is fully vaccinated and boosted against the virus and is experiencing only mild symptoms. the white house says that president joe biden is not considered a close contact of blinken. both blinken and biden attended the white house continues correspondents dinner in
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washington. abc news chief washington correspondent jonathan carl, there he is with a quick talk and handshake with the president, jonathan carl tested positive for covid-19 after attending the dinner. carl shook hands with president biden at the event and sat next to kim kardashian. cnn reporting that reporters and staffers from cnn, abc news, nbc news, politico and other participating news organizations have tested positive for the virus. we'll be right back. be with yoy hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & & the blowfish]
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this is don lemon tonight, shock and outrage. american women may soon have the decades old right to an abortion stripped away by the supreme court. can congress do anything. a key house democrat joins me with her personal story in just
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a moment. pushing russia back, ukrainian forces inching toward the russian border as they push back russian forces to the east of kharkiv and man hunt for a missing alabama corrections officer and the dangerous inmate she's accused of springing from jail. clues of a romantic relationship and a planned escape piling up. the county sheriff joins me ahead in this hour. i want to bring in now democratic congresswoman jackie spear of california. thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate it. let's discuss this. women across the country are shocked and furious. reproductive rights will clearly be the democrats' rallying cry heading into the midterms. what can congress do to help women whose power over their own health care and bodies, women feel that may be stripped away? >> i hate to say this, don, this is nothing that can be done at this point. yes, we can call upon the two senators who had


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