tv CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto CNN May 5, 2022 7:00am-8:00am PDT
in economics or statistics, right? you're not going to have that very dramatic base effect. so you could start to see these headline inflation numbers start to cool off a little bit. i'm still concerned, though, about food and fuel and that's because of the crisis in ukraine. that's going to be a big problem. >> no question. no sign of relief to that crisis in ukraine anytime soon. christine romans, thanks very much. very good thursday morning. i'm jim sciutto. happening right now, the city of mariupol, which has suffered so much through this war, facing just unrelenting attacks in what could be russia's final push to overtake, or at least to attempt overtake the city. overnight, russian forces bombarded ukrainian troops. look at those pictures there, and civilians. to be clear, there are hundreds of civilians in the basement of that plant there overnight. that's the city's last line of defense. and where those civilians remain trapped. this new video shows russian troops inside that facility after breaching the complex.
to the northeast, in the luhansk and donetsk regions, ukraine holding the line over the past 24 hours, officials say that russians have had no success breaking through the front lines there. that's been their goal for some time. but in the city of dnipro, russian launched new strikes on civilian infrastructure. look at that video there. the very moment a bridge with cars on it, by the way -- appeared to be civilian cars -- was hit in that city. [ alarm sounding ] >> take a look at the damage in the city of kramatorsk. those are civilian apartment buildings. imagine living there yourself. russian air strikes zaiting a residential area once again. several school buildings including a kindergarten also struck and severely damaged. at least 26 people wounded. a consistent feature this this war, attacks on sichl targets. let's begin with international correspondent, scott mclean.
he is in lviv. ukrainian forces say that they have repelled many russian attacks. it's a long front line here, lots of different things happening in different places, but what is the latest you're hearing this morning? >> reporter: hey, jim. yeah, i think there are two central questions. number one, are the russians making any inroads to actually taking, physically, the territory of that steel plant to force the ukrainians into surrendering? and number two, i think, is much more important, which is, is there any progress in actually getting people out? the ukrainians, as you mentioned, say that they have managed to push russian troops back, who have been trying to storm that facility from the ground. the russians strongly deny that they have tried to take it by force on the ground. and we are also learning today that or last night, excuse me, i should say, that the russians sort of extended this olive br branch, saying that they would allow civilians to get out. they would pull their troops
back, they would cease fire, and they would allow civilians to go either toward russia or to ukraine. but today, according to deputy commander of thes asov regiment he says that the russians have completely broken that promise. there is no cease-fire in place today. he says that the fighting is quite intense there and that people are dying. and he's calling on the international community and specifically, as well, his own president, to try to broker any kind of a deal to get people out from underneath of the steel plant. and he had a particular call for zelenskyy to do something to arrange for soldiers to get out from under the steel plant, as well, because he said that many of them are dying in agony. at this stage of the game, jim, there are no signs that any civilians have been able to leave. the last numbers that we've gotten from the ukrainians that there are perhaps 100, 200 or more, including 30 children, as well. and there are also no signs that ukrainian troops have any plans
at all to surrender. in fact, those troops posted a video of some soldiers sheltering underneath that steel plant, singing a battle hymn. here's one key line from that hymn. it is sweeter for us to die in battle than to live in chains as dumb slaves. we heard from these commanders before, who said they would like to have a deal to be able to get out, but they say that they will not leave without a weapon in their hand. failing that, they will fight to the death. >> well, there are hundreds of civilians in there with them as well. scott mclean, thanks so much. joining me now to discuss, andrea kendall taylor, former national operate for russia. if i could begin with you, general anderson, what is the outcome for these people there? russia is showing no hesitation, in fact, deliberate intention to kill civilians as well as soldiers across the country, since ints invasion started. you have hundreds of civilians, soldiers there that russian forces do not like, you know, to
a greater degree, thes asov battalion, as it's known. what's the end game? >> the end game is they are not going to give up and that they are going to go down fighting and probably die. i believe that they are not going to give up. you've seen it with the way they're singing songs and the like. they recognize what's at stake here. and this would be a huge political and psychological victory for the russians. and these are incredibly tough and resourceful people. they've been holding out for weeks. i predict they will continue to hold out for weeks, by the way. they've fighting in an industrial place that is incredibly hard to -- a perfect place to defend. i mean, think of stalinstalingr. the nazis lost three quarters of a million people fighting in an industrial complex like in stalingrad. they're not going to give up. the end game is whatever happens to the ukrainians, this will inspire generations of
ukrainians for many, many years. >> it's amazing. it's yet one more repeat that we're witnessing now with very explicit comparisons to world war ii. andrea, is this a failure of policy here? this has been -- they've been nin that basement for two months. there have been pleas for international monitoring, whether it be a civilian organization like the red cross or a third party country to somehow negotiate and then manage an evacuation from there. none of that's happened. i mean, these people may die. russia has shown no hesitation to kill civilians with equal speed and ease, as it has soldiers. who failed here? >> well, i think that's an important question. and it just exposes for me the kind of moral dilemma that has characterized much of this conflict. it has been the biden administration's priority to avoid any sort of actions that would risk direct confrontation with russia. and so that's been, you know,
the unfortunate trade-off that has had to have been made. really, if you talk about a failure of policy, but really, it underscores just the cruelty, the brutality, the total disregard for human life that russia has in this war. and so, again, just for me, it really underscores that moral dilemma, where there's so much more that we wish that we could do, but it is imperative that we also risk or that we avoid the risk of direct confrontation with russia. >> as you -- this was a big battle field, general anderson. there appear to be some ukrainian gains in the north around kharkiv, for instance, gaining back some villages. sounds small, just a village, but territory that's key, because it's pushing russian thri thr artillery, for instance, out of range. if you look at the battlefield along the east, are ukrainian forces not just holding the line now, but carrying out successful counter offenses?
>> they are absolutely doing that. it's because the russians have a flawed strategy. they're attacking along an 800-mile front. and not just a couple of main accesses of advance, to which they could overwhelm with artillery and there are numbers in tanks and mechanized vehicles. and he who attacks everywhere attacks nowhere. they essentially have flawed logistics, flawed strategy. their soldiers, morale, and leadership is poor. the generals are getting killed. the ukrainians are beating them in every possible way, with their will to fight, their superior logistics, their superior leadership, and their superior execution of an active mobile defense, which thus far is carrying the day. >> and yet so many civilians are suffering. when we were there in recent weeks, we showed -- we saw with our own eyes, russia is not hesitant to target civilian areas. i've heard a difference of opinion on may 9th, victory day,
and president putin's intentions then. there were some who are concerned that he might announce an expansion of this war, including a national mobilization, which would be a draft, in effect, and therefore expand the number of forces that he could use in ukraine. and others who think that would be too costly, even for putin, and that really he tries to claim some sort of fake, manufactured victory on may 9th and keeps on keeping on. what's your view? >> i'm probably in your second camp and i will go out on a limb and also suggest that i don't think putin can really afford to declare an official war on ukraine on may 9th and mobilize the russian forces. but it is a fraught decision. and he's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place, because if he does not mobilize the public in support of this war, i think overtime, the balance of forces does favor ukraine. so if he doesn't mobilize, he will not be able to replenish those russian forces and will
fail to make any significant progress towards the aims that he has set out. but ultimately, i think the political risks are just too much, as you said. if he mobilizes the forces, then he would have to, by definition, i think, inflate or increase russia's objectives in this war. he couldn't walk away with the little that he has to show. and i think for that reason, then, he will not. and he will continue to take advantage over his strong control over propaganda and try to sell whatever kind of shambolic victory he is able to accomplish to the russian public to rye to extricate himself from this at some future date. >> it's great point. you raise the ambition and also raise the chances of failing to meet that ambition yet again. andrea kendall taylor, brigadier general, thanks so much to both you've. coming up this hour, new audio of republican house leader kevin mccarthy saying it would take too long to remove trump using the 25th amendment after
the january 6th attack. we'll speak with a democratic congressman, ruben gallego, about that and other issues, next. plus, amber heard just took the stand again for a second day of testimony in johnny depp's defamation trial against her. a look at her defense strategy, which has already included disturbing allegations of abuse. and later this hour, she protested in the 1970s, the first time roe v. wade was at the supreme court. and this week, he rallied again. we're going to speak with 90-year-old abortion rights advocate on her decades-long fight, which is still going . >> it's always worth it to stand up for what you believe. and i believe that women should have control of their own bodies. alexa, ask buick to start my enclave. starting your buick enclave. i just love our new alexa. dad, it's a buick. i love that t new alexa smell. it's a buickck. we need snacks for the team. alexa, take us to the nearest grocery store. getting directions. alexa will get us there in no time.
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we are hearing new audio from minority leader kevin mccarthy in the days following january 6th. in a call with gop leadership, mccarthy said that invoking the 25th amendment to remove trump from office wasn't a viable option. why? because it wasn't fast enough. >> i think the options that have been cited by the democrats so far are the 25th amendment, which is not exactly an elegant solution here. that takes too long, too. it could go back to the house, right? >> yeah, correct. if the president were to submit a letter overruling the cabinet and the vice president, two-thirds vote in the house is going to overrule the president. so it's kind of in our full,
obviously, impeachment, as has been discussed. and i think they want him to resign, which i don't see happening either. >> during the same call, mccarthy also said that he wanted to reach out to then president-elect joe biden as he expressed hope for a smooth transition. he added that he thought impeaching trump would further divide the nation. i'm joined now by arizona democratic congressman, ruben gallego. he serves on the armed services committee. thanks for taking the time this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> i want to ask you first about this mccarthy audio. it's the ladtest in a series tht shows a contradiction in what he thought on the day and the days after, not just about the dangers of january 6th, but trump's role in it and what he says publicly now. has he, by not only not being honest about this, but refusing to participate in an investigation of january 6th, has he endangered his own caucus, right, as well as democrats, by not making an effort to help prevent something similar from happening again?
>> well, i think the most important thing is not us politicians, i think the problem is that he's endangering the constitution. he clearly was worried. i was there on the house floor. i saw him and spoke -- saw him speak afterwards, where he clearly blamed president trump for everything that occurred. and he at some point had subconsciously, felt that he had done something wrong and found some kind of spine. but soon after that, he realized that the republican party is nonexistent without trump, and decided to align himself with the trump wing of the party instead of the constitution. and that's the problem here. there are many ways that he could have pushed back on donald trump and hopefully saved both the republican party in the long run and the constitution of the united states. but he chose, you know, his vapid opportunities to really rise to power and become a speaker instead of protecting the constitution of the united states. >> let me ask you this. referencing this and the broader issue, president biden called maga republicans, quote, the
most extreme political organization that's existed in recent american history. i wonder, is that a successful political message for democrats in the fall? because when you look at the polls, the far more important issue to voters, democrat and republican and independent, are economic issues, including inflation. is that the right focus for the president, as well as other democrats like yourself? >> well, it certainly is, because when we're talking about the maga agenda, it's not just the fact that they're obsessed with people's genitals or trying to force women to have, you know, babies, they're also going to raise taxes. you look at senator scott's tax plan, his plan is to lower the taxes on billionaires and corporations and make working class people pick up the slack, quote/unquote, if we have any slack at this point to give, in order for us to support that. he wants to cut social security. so that's the type of maga agenda that we actually are worried about. it's not just this weird social side that suddenly has taken off. it's also the economic plans
that are really going to affect working class america right now. and there is no plan from maga republicans, really, to deal with everything that's going on right now. it's just trying to distract with other types of, you know, social issues and other types of hate, when, in fact, they're going to end up raising taxes to pay for their billionaire tax cuts again. >> let me ask you this. democrats had a plan to address some of those issues, for instance, to raise taxes on corporations, to help pay for things like prescription drug coverage, a child care tax credit, et cetera. it's not gone anywhere. and that has been a frustration, as you know, expressed in polling as well by democratic voters. the democrats have not delivered on that agenda. so what are you running on in the fall? what successes, accomplishments are you running on? >> i think that's a very legitimate complaint from democrats. they want us to succeed, because they know our agenda is actually better for working class america. we do have to continue to also point out that we did great work
with the cares act, stopped us from sliding into a personal recession of economic for the personal economic pocketbooks of families, you know, we're also extremely proud of the bipartisan infrastructure deal. i've been going across the state here in arizona, talking to tribes about all of the digital, you know, broadband that they're going to be able to bring because of that type of work and investment that we've done in this country and we're going to have to continue to push other measures welcome such as the chips act, which would be a huge, huge gain. but you can't deny a couple of things. by the way, we know that there's a problem. i feel that problem. my family talks about it all the time. i see the gas prices. inflation, it does matter. but we know that we have the highest level of employment in the history of this country. it's only going to continue to grow. we actually saw payment down in the deficit that we haven't seen that in a long time. so we do see some good areas, but we'll have to keep working. we have to bring inflation down.
there is no doubt about that. >> we're tight on time. two more quick questions. one, you know immigration is a major issue in this election for voters, and the question of keeping or ending title 42, which to date, you know, related to the pandemic, but the administration has blocked them. should the administration keep or end title 42? >> i think the administration, no matter what, needs to put a plan to replace title 42. you can't deny that if there's going to be a lot of people coming across the border, so we need to be able to figure out how to deal with the flow of asylum seekers in an organized manner. you know, title 42 is not the best option to do that, but also, not having title 42 and just letting things go is not the way to do it. and i doubt the administration is just going to look through that. we need to have a process for people to get here clearly. we need to choose who it deserves to be in this country and those that do not need to go back. >> final question. you know the speculation. you going to challenge kyrsten sinema for the democratic nomination in 2024? >> look, we're in 2022 and we're
talking about everything we need to do in 2022. i need to make sure that democrats keep the house and keep the senate and that questions of 2024 will be decided in early 2023. >> all right. we'll keep asking. congressman ruben gallego, thanks so much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. still ahead, at least eight tornadoes touched down from texas to kansas. the town of seminole, oklahoma, seeing some of the worst damage caught on camera there. next, we'll go there live. hear how one woman managed to save her family. ♪i'm so defensive,♪ ♪i got bongos thumping in my c chest♪ ♪and somethining tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪ ♪he'd betttter not take the rig from me.♪
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i prosecuted car break-ins. all repeat offenders, often in organized crime rings. but when chesa boudin took office, he dissolved the unit and stopped me from collaborating with the police on my cases. now home and car break-ins are on the rise because repeat offenders know they can get away with it. chesa boudin is failing to do his job. there's a better way to keep san francisco safe. i fought for freedom abroad. recall chesa boudin now. i'm not going to allow anyone to take away women's rights here at home. abortion is effectively banned in texas, and at least seven other states only have a single abortion provider. we need leaders in congress who will stand up to extremist politicians, and protect our right to choose everywhere. and i will fight for pay equity, too. i'm emily beach, and i approve this message because nothing is more important than standing up for- - [all] our rights. right now.
right now, amber heard back on the stand resuming her testimony in ex-husband johnny depp's defamation trial against her. her testimony yesterday was gripping, emotional at times, as she shared details of what she said was an abusive relati relationship. >> i feel head over heels in love with this man. when i was around johnny, i felt like the most beautiful person in the world. you know, it made me feel seen, it made me feel like a million dollars. >> and she said she'll never forget the first time she alleges depp hit her. she said it happened when she asked about one of his tattoos. >> i just steaared at him, kindf
laughing still, thinking that he was going to start laughing too to tell me that it was a joke, but he didn't. he said, you think it's so funny. you think it's funny, [ bleep ]. you think you're a funny [ bleep ]. and he slapped me again. like, it was clear wit wasn't a joke anymore. i knew it was wrong and i knew that i had to live him and that broke my heart, because i didn't want to leave him. >> depp denies this happened, says he never hit heard. i want to bring in civil rights attorney cnn legal analyst areva martin for more on this. areva, first, last question is we heard from depp with distdisturb ing allegations against heard. now we're hearing disturbing allegations from heard against depp. how effective, first of all, do you think her testimony has been on this jury? >> i think it's been really gripping testimony, jim. she described a lot of what we
had already heard in johnny depp's case, which is, you know, the allegations regarding his heavy drug use, his heavy dependence on alcohol and his violent outbursts. and we saw in johnny depp's case an effort on his part to downplay the violence, and in fact, to blame heard for the violent attacks against him. and as you said in the intro, he denied ever striking her or any woman for that matter. but we're hearing a very different story from amber heard and this jury is going to have to decide who is credible, because they are painting very different pictures of what happened in their relationship. >> what if the jury believes both parties, in effect? right, if they find both witnesses credible and somehow conclude it was an abusive relationship, but that both were guilty of abuse? >> the ultimate issue, as you know, jim, in this case is whether that op-ed article that amber heard wrote made reference to johnny depp, even though it didn't use his name, but was
there enough information there so that anyone reading it would have known she was talking about johnny depp, and did that article cause damage to his acting career. that's the ultimate decision that this jury is going to have to make. and in making that decision, they're going to have to weigh not only the testimony of these two individuals, the main characters, but also the other evidence, evidence from the agents and managers who are going to talk about what happened after that op-ed piece came out and what the state of his career is, because we know amber heard's lawyer's position is that, look, johnny depp ruined his own career. it was his drinking, his drug use with his tardiness in showing up that caused him to lose out on contracts, not that article. >> but from a legal perspective, if the jury believes heard, heard's allegations here, even if they believe depp's as well. but if they believe heard's allegations that she was abused, can they still conclude that writing that op-ed was
defamatory? >> well, the issue of whether the op-ed is defamatory again is is there enough information in there to cause a reader to know that she was talking about johnny depp, because as i said, she doesn't mention his name. and then, again, the bigger question is, what damage did that do? was this career, was johnny depp's career already, you know, in a downward spiral because of his own actions? and we know that the uk, a similar case was brought in the uk in terms of defamation. not before a jury, but a judge. and the uk said that johnny depp was not credible and believed amber heard and believed that he was not entitled to any damages. so this jury is going to have to again weigh the decision or way the evidence to determine did this article do damage to his career, the way he is claiming. >> to my understanding, and forgive me if i'm just failing to understand. to my understanding, he lost the case in the uk because the judge concluded the allegations of him being abusive were credible. so i guess what i'm saying, can
it still be defamatory if it's true? >> oh, absolutely not. >> yes, truth is always a defense to a defamation claim. and maybe i didn't understand your question. let me be clear, yes. so if the jury decides that johnny depp engaged in the physical and sexual violence that amber heard is alleging and will testify about throughout this trial, then, no, he loses, in the same way that he lost in the uk trial, when the judge determined, yeah, she's credible. you did these things that she's alleging and you can't now claim that you're being defamed, because she's simply telling the truth. and so absolutely, if the jury rejekjects ojohnny depps that s was the aggressor, he's going to lose this case. >> understood. it's a difficult case to watch. god knows. areva martin, thanks so much. an enhanced risk of severe storms again today across parts of the central southern united
states. yesterday, at least eight reported tornadoes swept from texas to kansas. some of the video just alarming. these images taken as the storm slammed seminole oklahoma, about 50 miles southeast of oklahoma city. flashes of light and power lines exploding near a storm chase vehicle. this gives you a sense of the power of that storm. i want to bring in cnn's lucy kafanov. si she's in seminole. tell us what damage you're seeing there. >> well, jim, the city is still assessing the full extent of the damage. we've seen some repair vehicles trying to clean up some of the debris that's been spread across here. the governor saying no reported injuries, but this entire area taking a direct hit multiple tornado warnings overnight, multiple tornadoes touching down here. one local resident said that she had to take her family to a school to hide in the gun vault there, because her home didn't have a basement. take a listen. >> it sounded like a train and
we could also hear things just slamming against the walls, like, you know, metal, glass, things like that. and then when we opened the door to come out, the entire roof was gone. everything, everything other than where we were is just gone. it was just so surreal. >> reporter: and jim, you might hear noise around me. there are folks with power saws, cutting down trees. you can see the john deere piece of machinery that's about to do the cleanup. and i also want to show this building over here behind me. this is an apartment complex. we actually talked to one resident who rode out the storm there overnight. she said two tornadoes hit. the first one did most of this damage that you're looking at there. the roof peeled off like the top of a sardine can. most of the residents evacuated. she staid there. her ap
her apartment relatively undamaged, but the folks on the third floor will not be returning anytime soon. it gives you a sense of just how strong this tornado was. and just about every single building, jim, downtown, has some sort of damage. the power lines are down in the entire city at this moment at least is without power. >> lucy kafanov, thank you very much. with new strikes on the eastern part of ukraine, how much longer can soldiers keep russian forces from moving forward? we're going to get an update on the situation in ukraine, coming up next. ♪
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this morning, ukrainian officials are accusing russian forces of committing nearly 10,000 war crimes since the start of the invasion and they say that number is still rising. ukraine's prosecutor general detailing deliberate bombings targeting civilians, along with other atrocities in testimony before the u.s. helsinki commission today. joining me now to discuss, anastasia radinya, a member of the ukrainian parliament. i wonder if we can begin with what we see unfold in the steel plant in mariupol. we speak of allegations of war crimes. there are hundreds of civilians there. russians deliberately bombing this plant and not allowing significant numbers of civilians to leave. are you concerned russian forces will kill the civilians
remaining there? >> if russia continues with they are doing now, which is deliberately bombing shelters where they know civilians are hiding, chances are high that those people will also be victims of russia war crimes and will lose their life due to that. we have been working very, very hard trying to evacuate people from the plant, trying to arrange humanitarian corridors. we were successful in evacuating 154 people, if i'm not mistaken. but more civilians are still there and russia is showing absolutely no respect whatsoever to their lives, due to the necessity to save their lives and the fact that these are si civilians, not servicemen. >> this is russia's failure, clearly, a deliberate one, one could argue. but ukrainian officials, yourself included, have been asking for western help to save these people for weeks. it hasn't come.
is the u.s., is nato, is the international community also responsible for not saving these lives? >> we have been asking and we are continuing to ask all our allies and all of our partners to send heavy weapons to ukraine. the weapons we need to protect life of civilians and also to liberty those civilians who are now in besieged city, who are now taken hostage, literally, in occupied cities, in order to save the lives of these city. javelins, however good they are, unfortunately are not very helpful. what we need to save lives of these people are heavy artillery, are armed vehicle, are fighter jets, et cetera. heavy weaponry. this is the best and basically this is the only way to deliver humanitarian assistance to this people. i can only reiterate what our first lady has said. diapers or baby food will not help if kids die.
and in order to save lives of those kids, we need heavy weaponry. this is the first and basically only thing that can help those people in besieged and occupied cities right now. >> may 9th, as you know, is victory day, as it's known in russia. are you concerned that russia will expand the war in ukraine next week? >> i think this can be expected. this can be expected. of course, it is very difficult to to plan or speculate of what russia may do or may not do, because our experience with russia is that lie and deceive and this is what they can do best. at the same time, for us, right now, it is very important to be able to demonstrate that ukraine has long-term, midterm, and most importantly, short-term support in terms of weaponry and in terms of financing from our partners. >> we've been seeing new video there, as you were speaking, from mariupol, the ongoing fwax.
anastasia radinia, member of the parliament, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. still ahead, she was part of the original fight for abortion rights half a century ago. and at 90 years old, our next guest is protesting again for a woman's right to choose. and since pain relievers may affect blood pressure, they can't just take anything f for their pain. tytylenol® is the #1 dr. recommended pain relief brand for those with high blood pressure. if you have questions on whether tylenol is right for you, tatalk to your doctor. for copd, ask your doctor about bztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition...
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the white house is not offering much detail about how it would respond if the supreme court does overturn roe v. wade, as indicated in that leaked draft opinion. but, cnn has learned president biden is considering steps the administration could take without congress. among the ideas raised, both internally and externally, removing certain fda restrictions on abortion bills, possibly allowing medicaid to cover abortions if a woman needs to travel to another state to receive the procedure, and expanding access to contraception by removing a trump-era rule that allows employers to exclude birth control from insurance. well, the battle goes on. a higher fence now up around the supreme court, as protests continue over that leaked draft opinion showing the supreme court's plans versus roe v. wade. my next guest took to the streets in north carolina when she heard that news last week. it's not the first time. 50 years ago, she protested for abortion rights before roe v. wade was decided. joining me now is betty lezo.
she is 90 years young and serves as secretary for the wake county senior democrats. betty, thanks for joining me this morning. >> thank you. >> i want to ask you, because you fought in the early '70s for something you see as an essential woman's right. are you surprised that half a century later, to be facing this pallet battle again? >> yes. well, i'm not only surprised, i'm very angry, because men don't have stipulations on their health. why do women? >> it's a good point. i wonder, you lived in a time when there was not only a protected right to abortion, but women had a whole host of things that we take -- did not have a whole host of things that many women take for granted today. legal process for sexual harassment claims. i mean, women then could not apply for a credit card under many circumstances without their
husband's okay. many universities weren't coed at the time. i wonder, describe to younger women watching this broadcast what it was like then versus today. >> yes, i became involved in the wo women's movement. the '60s and '70s were very important for our rights. we began to realize more and more that we should be equal. and not -- and be able to get credit or whatever. >> do you feel that this is a reminder that victories, like the ones you believe you had in the early '70s, are not perm permanent. >> that's a hard thing to realize. nothing really is permanent, but
i believe that climate change is serious and i believe that overpopulation is important for creating for more problems. so a woman's right is very important. it's not a moral thing. >> i was thinking, as i was hearing your story, my mother always told me when i was a baby and had to go in the hospital, she was told that she could not admit me without the baby's father present, and of course that did not make her very happy. that these enormous changes happened during that period of time. are you encouraged -- do you believe young people can, will, take up this fight the way you did 50 years ago? >> i hope so. and i felt pretty positive wednesday. i saw a lot of young women and they're very serious, too. and they're concerned about
their rights. i hope they all get out and vote. that's what we need to do is vote. >> now, north carolina is a state, it's not one of the states prepared to quickly ban abortions, as some other states are, if roe is overturned. do you believe in your state, and by the way, as i noted, you're still active in state politics there. will voters in north carolina be motivated by this decision, do you think? if it comes to be? >> i think it's going to help motivate, yes. unfortunately, our senators are pro-life, not women's rights. but i do hope they all get out and vote. >> well, betty lezo, it's so good to talk to you. i really do appreciate your perspective and i'm sure many folks do as well. thank you for coming on. >> thank you very much. >> thanks to much for all of you for joining us today. i'm jim sciutto.
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officials there say, quote, if there is hell in this world, it is in azovstal. the russians have repeatedly fired on humanitarian corridors. elsewhere, ukraine says that russian troops have had no success breaking through the front lines in the luhansk and donetsk regions. despite all of this, russia continues its relentless attacks on ukraine's infrastructure, blowing up a bridge in dnipro. let's begin our coverage this hour with cnn's scott mclean who is live in lviv. scott, what is the latest at this hour, in terms of the fighting at the steel plant in mariupol. >> reporter: hey, erica, yeah. things are not looking good for the civilians that are trapped inside there. we know that there could be potentially hundreds of them, including 30 children. we know that yid russians have offered somewhat of an olive branch saying that today, yesterday, and saturday they would allow civilians to escape through the plant through humanitarian corridors. and they could g