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tv   CNN Tonight  CNN  May 19, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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boeing is trying to shona sa the creek is ready to carry people. we want to land hinge things over to laura coates and cnn tonight. >> i'm expecting you one day to go up to space. i'm waiting for that to happen. he chuckles. i am laura coates and this is "cnn tonight." tensions are high over abortion rights, otherwise known as women's right. even as roe still stands, there is a state that's on the cusp of enacti enacting most restrictive abortion ban in the entire nation. oklahoma's legislature passed house bill 327 today which could ban from fertilization. we're waiting to hear the final decision. not from six weeks like texas that passed that case or like
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oklahoma itself enacted two weeks ago. no, this new law awaiting republican governor kevin sits signature would outlaw abortions from fertilization, meaning when the sperm combines with the egg. there are exceptions for certain medical emergencies or if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest. even then there are tons of questions as to how those exceptions would work in practice. for example, would you just have to report a sexual assault to law enforcement, or would there have to be an actual prosecution of an assault to terminate that pregnancy? and not only would this oklahoma law ban abortions from fertilization, it would also allow private citizens to sue abortion providers or anyone who aids and abets an abortion. it's really modelled on the texas law, is it not? pledged to sign every single piece of legislation that limits
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abortion that might reach his desk. that means this law could go into affect in days, hours, or minutes immediately after he signs. reaction on the frontlines of the fight for women's rights, medical director of the alabama women's center. you may have heard her speaking at the house just yesterday where there were very heated exchanges with lawmakers in general. dr. robinson, i'm glad you're here. >> hello. thank you so much for the opportunity. i'm glad to be here. >> now, doctor, when you hear about this and what's happening in oklahoma, really the combination of some of the more restrictive notions, remember the supreme court is looking at mississippi, about a 16-week or so ban. this would say fertilization. you're an on gien. the prospects of people either knowing they were pregnant or being able to have this limitation of fertilization, what would this encompass, and
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how difficult would this be for the average person, average woman, to be able to exercise the right that she once had? >> well, with the oklahoma ban, that is very unfortunate. i mean, a person cannot know they're pregnant or be pregnant until fertilization takes place. so, that means essentially there would be no abortion for the citizens of oklahoma, period. >> and part of the concern, if you look at the geography of the u.s., as you well know, there are people in texas who are going to other states across the country that may border texas or were even beyond it trying to make sure while roe v. wade is still the law of the land, which it presently is, but this takes away the avenue for people to travel outside texas or other places to do so. what impact is this having on bim in this country right now, particularly in those areas? >> well, that's going to create
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an even bigger disparity for people in oklahoma and in the surrounding states. like here in alabama and many other places, as continuous restrictions are passed down. more and more clinics close. and with that being said, people who need access to abortion care are having to travel further and further. so, people who have travelled to oklahoma and use that as a resource in order to access immediate health care, that will no longer be the next stop for them. those people will be forced to travel to further states. we also have to look at the impact of the states that will be receiving these patients because they're not only going to be taking care of their own clients but also client ts that are now influxing from other areas. obviously, despite our desire to take care of every person that comes in and needs care, there's
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a certain capacity that clinics have. that means it's going to create longer waiting lists. that means patients will have to wait longer and longer for care. and unfortunately, that means many people will never get care at all. >> uyou were on the hill yesterday trying to explain this to lawmakers in fact, and it must be pointed out, you were a target of an incredible amount of disrespect and rudeness in trying to advocate as your medical profession would require you to do on behalf of patients and just explain what the actual impact would be. i want to play for the audience here what that experience was so they can hear in what you actually went through. >> do you support the right of a woman who is just seconds away from birthing a healthy child to have an abortion? >> i think that the question that you're asking does not realistically reflect abortion care -- >> in that scenario would you say -- if a child is halfway out of the birth canal, is an
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abortion then. >> can you repeat your question? >> would you support the right for an abortion then? >> i can't even fact m that -- >> i'm not asking if you can fathom it. if it occurred, would you -- >> i can't answer that question. just like you probably can't imagine what you would do if your daughter was raped. >> dr. robinson, just the absurdity in part of the question that the idea is really part of why people have these conversations in ways that create additional political wedges. what was your reaction to that notion of being asked that now that you've had time to reflect? what do you think was behind that question? >> and listening to that conversation, i think it just highlights the fact -- it highlights two things. one, that they clearly don't understand what they're talking about. two, that they really don't care because it doesn't matter how much you try to explain to them
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the care that we provide, the scenarios that patients present with. that's not what they're interested in hearing. those aren't the things that gets votes, in other words. i think when they use inflammatory language, when they put forth these absurd s scenarios, those are the things that riles up audiences and gets them the votes and accolades. and it's very clear that the people that are making these decisions are not medical professionals. and it's unfortunate that they are the ones that have the power and the decisions that they make affect real people's lives. >> dr. robinson, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. i want to follow up on that exact point. >> thank you. >> thank you. and continue the conversation with someone on the other side of the issue, the idea of what statements like that or that line of questioning might do to
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incentivize people to actually turn out to the polls in favor of legislation just like this. alice stewart is an antiabortion social conservative and a cnn political commentator. alice, i'm very glad you're here because i want to get your perspective on this issue. you just heard the doctor state that perhaps it's a matter of not caring. it's a matter of not understanding the medical nuance or really the medical obviousness of how abortions in this country are either performed either surgically or increasingly so through medication abortions. when you hear about the oklahoma law and of course the reaction to it, what is your reaction? >> i think this is a huge victory for those that are in the pro-life movement. and i applaud dr. robinson for the care she provides to women in her care. but the questioning dealt specifically with what some states are leaning toward as third trimester abortions, which is just really unthinkable. what we have in oklahoma --
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>> alice, hold on. excuse me. what states are leaning toward -- you and i know each other quite well. >> right. >> and you and i know there is not a state that someone would articulate a woman have an abortion as a child is getting delivered. no one is delivering a child and halfway out of the birth canal there's discussion about abortion. there is no state that has that legislation, so that was a point of hyperbole. >> there was language in virginia that did not pass, but there was language that would protect third trimester abortion. and the line of questioning would be more to the way of making sure that that does not happen. and what is happening is the power for the pro-life movement is back in the hands of the states if roe v. wade were to be overturn. and what's happening in oklahoma is that they already have the heart beat protections in place. that law is in place, which would be a trigger law when roe
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v. wade were to be overturned. what happened today is an additional protection. those that were in support of the heart beat protection bill wanted to move the date back to conception. i spoke with one of the women, the senators, who drafted the language for this, julie daniels, and they said they knew it was a risk but they felt it was important for the pro-life movement to move the date back to conception. and this really solidified the pro-life movement. governor sid has said oklahoma is a pro-life state. they support life from conception until natural death. and he feels it's very important for the elected officials in the state of oklahoma to support life and the sanctity of life and the taking of a life to protect another is not the way that they want to run that state. and keep in mind, these are elected officials put in place by the people of oklahoma who knew full well where they stood
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on this issue when they were elected into office. so, the key, what we're seeing now, is the power being put back in the hands of elected officials by people who know exactly where they stand. this is in support by the majority of people in oklahoma and, you know, if there were to be signed by the governor, which by all accounts it should be, the goal here is to provide a deterrent for abortion. and the way this works, it's with both of these in effect, it would provide a deterrent for the person who conducts the abortion. and that has a civil cause of action, which would impose financial penalty on them. they pay at least $10,000 if they perform an abortion. and also are required to pay the court fees and legal fees. so, this is -- it's not a criminal penalty. this is a civil cause of action. it's taking a lawsuit against a person who were to provide an abortion. >> alice, i all say that america's favorite past time is not baseball. it's litigation.
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but as a former litigator and prosecutor, i really wonder about how you're going to be able to effectively either pursue these sorts of cases. again, this is also emotional distress. compensatory damages could also be given out. how does someone actually achieve this goal. and as justice alito has written the opinion, it would leave it to the say its, creating this patchwork. i wonder about the political view. thank you so much. when we come back, there's a war within the war on disinformation. and you're about to hear from the woman at the center of the storm over president biden's controversial disinformation governance board. that's now on pause, by the way. this just three weeks after it was even announced. so, why did nina jang wits resign after director? was he taken down by the same
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twitter announcing today they will label and suppress misinformation coming out of places like ukraine. the biden's administration's biggest step to fight what the fbi called a quote, key part of the russian arsenal, unquote, just got derailed by much of the same information. three weeks after the department of homeland security announced a disinformation governance board, the project's on hold tonight. the administration faced fierce criticism from civil liberty groups on the left, specifically the woman who picked was picked to lead it. nina jankowicz was an american and, quote, orwellian. >> the president's ministry of truth is just an un-american abuse of power.
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nina jankowicz. she actively worked to spread misinformation that has been proven false. they want to put her in charge. >> they ensure us that it's not the speech of conservatives or conservative media outlets, yet this woman they put in charge of it, labelled things like the hunter biden laptop. >> terminate this orwellian ministry of truth, fire nina jankowicz, and prevent the biden regime from silencing the american people. >> even the dhs secretary admits they weren't ready for the exact same kind of tactics the board was supposed to spot from foreign governments or international crime syndicates. >> i think we probably could have done a better job of communicating what it does and does not do. >> well, here's the stark reality. even as the department puts the board on hold and looks for
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bipartisan recommendations on where to go next, the truth of the matter is the disinformation still remains. found herself in the middle of the storm, nina jankowicz is here now. i'm glad you're here. thank you for joining us today. nina, i have to ask you -- >> thanks for having me. >> many people are wondering about the idea of what was the purpose of this particular, you know, organization, what you were doing and overseeing because if there were questions and concerns about the very tac tactics or the goals, why was that the no communicated effectively? >> well, you know, i understand americans' concerns about the idea of government getting involved in policing speech. but the good news is the board had nothing to do with policing speech. the idea was that the board was going to be an internal coordinating mechanism making sure that dhs subcomponents,
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things like cvp, customs and border patrol, fema, which deals with natural disaster, all these components were equipped with the tools they needed to continue the work to fight disinformation that they've been doing for more than a decade already. this absolutely could and should have been communicated better. i wanted it to be communicated better. but the reality is that the type of disinformation that dhs is charged with combatting or addressing is stuff that keeps americans safe and secure. so, let me give you an example. i mentioned fema before. let's say disinformation from an adversary like russia, china, or iran is putting people in harm's way during a natural disaster. that is the tiech thing we are trying to support our colleagues across the department in doing. and unfortunately and ironically we were undone by a disinformation campaign coming from folks who apparently want to put their national security bind their personal and
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political ambitions. >> you've just articulated the ways in which you've helped others anticipate the issue, so why was that not anticipated here in the sense that you do not expect there would be some measure or inclination to sow distrust and the same thing you're trying to do? >> well, you know, dhs is an extremely large department. 250,000 people work there. the department had other priorities. it's got a huge mission set. at the time of the rollout i think there were other priorities that were kind of put ahead of this rollout of the disinformation governance board. and unfortunately, the advice that i had given was not heated about to communicate openly, transparently, and rapidly. and we created unintentionally an information vacuum that was filled the falsehoods and frankly directed a lot of vitriol and digging into my own personal life that i think was
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entirely disproportionate to the amount of power i had at the department. these decisions were being made at a much higher level than mine. and as a result my family and i have faced threats almost every day for the past three weeks. i don't think that is something anybody should be priding themselves on. and frankly the lies and falsehoods that were spread about the disinformation governance board, as i said before, this childish behavior is putting the national security of our country behind this sort of partisan vitriol. and we need to stop that because it's our adversaries who recognize that that partisanship, that politicization is exactly what they can manipulate and why america is vulnerable to disinformation right now. >> well, first it is extraordinarily unfortunate and i'm so sorry you're going through that with a member of your family. but what you speak about is the very question i have as to -- i understand why you have resigned from being executive director. but why was the board shut down? i mean, the idea of it no longer
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being -- or being on a pause right now for the reasons you've just stated, the idea of the importance of national security, the idea of international manipulation and exploitation of the recognition that misinformation is in many respects ruling the day, why is it not operational right now? >> well, you know, i didn't resign because of the threats. i'm happy to take one for the team and take one for the country, frankly, in dealing with disinformation because this is how important this issue is. i rezieped because i was unsure of the direction that the board was going to be going in. and frankly i hope the department continues this important work. i hope it doesn't let this partisan vitriol color the rest of the important projects that the department of homeland security is doing related to critical infrastructure and election security. and as i mentioned, disasters, the border, et cetera. and there is the dis and misinformation in all of those areas and i do not want to see all of those important projects sidelined by this political
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partisanship. with the board's future uncertain, i decided to leave because there's plenty of work to be done in the public sector. i've been doing it for years and i intend to continue doing it. i will not let my critics silence me, again, just because of these ridiculous claims that take my claims out of context, that lack nuances. that's the disinformation playbook, and that's what i'm here to fight. >> ironically, that's exactly what they would say as a retort and why they want to undermine the information. nina jankowicz, thank you so much. you know the formula shortage isn't about politics. it's about parents feeding their babies. we're getting answers from someone at the center of the fight to get formula on the shelves. tom vilsack joins me. will his message resonate and reassure parents? we'll ask him next.
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the biden administration secures the very first batch of overseas baby formula. shipments from switzerland is expected in the coming days. the fda commissioner today trying to reassure parents who frankly for weeks now have been desperately trying to feed their babies. >> it will gradually get better. within days, it will get better. but it will be a few weeks before we're back to normal. >> the question is, will it come
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soon enough for parents who are watching the shortage get more dire by the day? >> your mind doesn't stop thinking about it, especially at night. i hate to say. i've lost a lot of sleep. >> now even if the biden administration can get this problem fixed in a few weeks, it only begs the question, why didn't it take and make these moves back in february? that's when the abbott plant that's responsible for almost a fifth of the u.s. supply was actually shut down. i want to ask a member of the administration, secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. secretary, thank you for being here this evening. it's important to have you here in particular because of course the big question everyone's asking, if we know the plant was shut down back in february, why is it taking so long to either, a, rev up production, or for the white house to be responsive in this way? >> well, there were a series of stages that had to be taken. first of all, we had to make sure that we recalled all of the
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product that was produced in that plant in order to minimize the tragedies that occurred. that was the first step. the second step was to make sure 50% of the formula that is consumed in this country is consumed through the wicc program. we had to create the flexibility in that program to maximize opportunities for wicc parents to access. then we had to safely import from other countries product. then we needed to make sure we got the abbott plant back online. the defense production act, which president authorized yesterday, designed to provide the ingredients, if you will. the ability for that plant to sort of step ahead of everyone else, to get those ingredients to get up and going, and now also being able to fly formula in from other countries, had to identify the resource necessary to purchase that formula. glad to see that 1.5 million 8-ounce bottles of oriformula w
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be headed here in the coming days. >> that's important for the measures to be taken now. the point two you made in terms of the wic people, we're talking about over a million newborns, over a million babies are in the wic program as we speak. there was a memo that went out back on february 23rd from usda that offered wic agencies the opportunity to have waivers to allow parents to buy from other brands. wic actually restricts the access to a variety of formula types. you have to be confined to what your say it is doing and it is state by state. if that's the concern, and knowing that should be the concern at least in part, why from february to now are we just now getting those corrective measures take snn i get there's a bureaucratic process, but time is of the essence for the nutritional value of the a
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child. >> to be clear about this, waivers -- the recall occurred i think on february 17th. on february 18th we sent out a letter to 86 wic agencies that basically operate this program and we began to receive those waiver requests and those were processed. so, within a matter of a couple weeks, we had roughly 66 of the 87 wic state agents requesting and being granted waivers. so, those waivers went into effect immediately in early march and have been in effect for some time. in addition, we also worked with abbott to make sure that if there was additional costs associated with a transition to a different brand, that abbott would essentially pick up the cost. we ask them to extend that effort through the summer. so, there's been a lot of activity taking place. and in fact work was done on waivers immediately. >> so, in terms of abbott in particular, and i appreciate your explanation on that and the idea of the expedience of dealing with the waiver issue.
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but going forward it's very concerning for parents all across the country -- even myself, i don't have babies any longer, but i still have children i remember quite well what it was like to try to make sure they had the nutrition they need. i know formula is very regulated in this country for that reason. do you have concerns going forward about the market share power say abbott has. if the idea of a recall such as this, and it's important to recall any contaminated product, of course, but if the market share is so expansive it could lead to shortages, are there plans? >> congress obviously is passing legislation that's going to create greater flex bts. you raise a good point. i think basically as a result of this circumstances and as a result of the pandemic i think we're rethinking the efficiency of our food system. it is incredibly efficient but one of the reasons it's efficient is because it's become quite concentrated. the question is whether we need to basically create more
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competition, which may lead hopefully to lower costs and greater flexibility and greater resiliency in the event of disruption. and i think that's an appropriate question to ask. and i would anticipate and kpt that folks across the country are asking that country today, whether or not it makes sense to see an expansion of production facilities or ways in which we can be a bit more resilient when and if we i have adisruption of this nature in the future. >> secretary of u.s. department of agriculture tom vilsack, thank you for your time. >> thank you. ahead, new developments at the defamation trial of actor johnny depp, including a video deposition played from access ellen barken, strong words against depp from her. depp's not on trial, but will the testimony hurt his case? we'll explore it next. like what you see abe? yes!
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heard's legal defense brought former depp -- jurors even heard from actress ellen barkin who was apparently in a romantic relationship with him in the '90s and recounted this. >> mr. depp threw a wine bottle across the hotel room on one instance in las vegas while we were shooting "fear and loathing" in las vegas. it was a toss. and he's just a jealous man, controlling. where are you going? who are you going with? what did you do last night? i had a scratch on my back once that got him very, very angry because he insisted it came from me having sex with a person who wasn't him. >> perspective now from an attorney that specializes in celeb ri if i defamation cases.
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this case really points out to you there is the court of law and the court of public opinion. there's a lot playing out on social media as you well know. how do you see this case? is it leaning in one direction or the other? >> it's hard to tell. it doesn't act like a defamation case, privacy case, general reputation type claims. the case is really presented more like almost a classic he said/she said domestic abuse/domestic violence case. for instance, you know, they're not engaged in sort of historical arguments over speech, such as an actual malice standard like i recently had the palin case. and so in that respect, you have completely polarized positions. you have complete denials on both sides of the conduct. and a very long trial kind of given the subject matter of it. so, you read the twitterverse and you read the fan bases
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activating, and that's great. but i don't think you could ever use this as a barometer for what the jury's going to do. i think people, beside the fact the cracks and margins of a trial, jurors are looking at everything, every little scintilla of non-verbal contact, for instance. you just never really know. you prosecute -- you understand that. a jury goes out and you're -- the feeling is always the same, right? i don't think we can draw on the fan base and the social media. we're looking at just why is witness after witness relating to two positions that are completely opposite? >> well, what's interesting about this, ken, and having prosecuted and done defamation cases, is the idea of -- and you're absolutely right with this -- the normal protocol is to focus on what the thing you're there for is, which is the idea of the op-ed that was written by amber heard, that
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intimated that she was a victim of domestic violence. and johnny depp believes that although his name was not mentioned in that, that people assumed it was him. and he's had reputational harm and been blacklisted as a result of it. we know that the idea of the actual malice standard because they're both public defenders, but we haven't heard so much about any of that. it's really been more about the toxicity of their relationship or the allegations around it. how will that bode in term of a jury being asked to decide the law here though? is it salacious? the "snl" skits. but then there's the idea of, has there been the standards met and the burden of proofs? >> to your point, in a defamation case, the element of other concern, the defamiliar tear publication, is not el
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rally getting debated here. so, you have that aspect of it, which is traditionally more of a speech issue that isn't really being fought. as to why they're there -- and this is something i think that's critical to look at. these cases should have a reason, okay? and whether that reason is hard and fast business damages, ie lost opportunities, which both sides are certainly talking about, or vindication of principle or vindication of reputation, that should be driving the case. like any case, you should have a goal and a result you're looking for with your client. and i don't know. and i think this is what's fascinating about this case. ultimately speaking after -- what are we, 19 days into the trial or something like that? and i don't know that you ever come out of this as a winner because this toxic relationship is just being vetted for the whole world the see. the respective fan bases are going to be fine. but to what end?
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are they trying to rehabilitate careers for hollywood? in my experience when i represent high profile clients, that's what you don't want to do. and in fact certain cases you don't even bring it because you know the media cycle is going to emphasize it. i question that. something that popped into my mind is when the audio tape got played -- i can't remember, a week or so ago -- that amber heard was on -- >> you mean the one when she mentioned the ideas she doesn't care -- what was the phrase? something along the lines of it doesn't matter if what she said was a lie, something to that effect. >> yeah, and you have things like that. the lawyers talk but they get it after a while. and like many cases, i'm as guilty of this -- you tend to overtry them. but when you have that evidence, to me -- if i'm on team depp, i'm done there, right? in other words, you resolve the
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case there and you've kind of convinced the world, look what i'm dealing with. now, who knows what's been discussed behind the scenes, and that's always hard when i talk about other people's cases, for instance this parade of character evidence. ellen barkin, i can't under similar fact evidence standard understand really exactly why that comes in. >> well, that's an interesting point and i was thinking that because a lot of the audience, of course, remember the bill cosby trial. these are not at all analogous facts here. but the idea of why evidence comes in. we'll have to keep watching because this is certainly not over. ken terkal, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. i do want to turn to a much different legal case, but one with this elephant at the center of the fight. and i do mean the literal elephant living at the bronx zoo. but the question is, could the law treat her as a person when it comes to where she lives? her case might be stronger than you think? and the video that may help her
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so, could a lawsuit involving an elephant change how we define a person under the law? look, that question's at the forefront of the case for the new york court of appeals as we speak. i'm going to introduce you to happy, a 50-year-old elephant who has lived in the bronx zoo for most of her life. a group called the non-human rights project is protect against unlawful detention of people, but what defines a person? she deserves person hood protections because she's highly intelligent and autonomous and self-aware. she was the first elephant to pass the so called mirror test which very few species have passed successfully. you can see her touching ing ae
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x on her forehead. scientists say that means she can recognize herself. she is being kept alone. her attorneys argue in order for happy to truly be happy, she need to be with other elephants in larger sanctuary. let's discuss now with cnn chief legal analyst. people may say why are we talking about an elephant and person hood. the legal jurs the idea of a corporation now this case, what do can you see happening here? >> when i first heard about this case, i thought it was a joke and ridiculous and i still don't think it's going to win but it is a more complicated and interesting question. as you pointed out, the courts have said that the constitution
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protects non-people, corporations, in certain circumstances ships in the law of admiralty have constitutional rights. the idea of who has constitutional rights is not a simple question. the question here is about animals. one definition that has been used about who deserves constitutional rights is someone who has the capacity to bear duties and responsibilities and that's -- it's got to be broader than that fwlauz are lawsuits on behalf of infants, children, people with intellectual disabilities. they don't have the intellectual to form a desire to bring a lawsuit but the law allows them to bring a lawsuit. the question is do animals fit
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into that category. >> these are unlawful detention as in you're supposed to bring the body for the court. they have to have their due process right secured. here they are saying they should be akin to a person is having in animal sanctuary for el fephant and being in a type of solitary confinement. this same organization has tried this with chaimps. what do you think makes the difference now that the court of appeals is grappling with this issue. they had a will the of slippery slope type of questions in terms of trying to reach the conclusions who else might be next. is it a dog? they can't be a pet any longer? >> that's why this argument, which is more interesting than i thought it was falls apart because the line between an animal that deserves protection and an animal that would not deserve protection, all the
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animals that we eat is not something that any court will grant protection to. i don't think the law , chuimps and elephants, yes. dogs, no, cats, no. i don't think judges will want to get into those categories. there are laws on the book that protect against animal cruelty. the law has recognized that animals have a status that the law protects. the problem is, it's never been an affirmative right. it's never been a right that your dog can do to court and say the master is treating the dog cruelly. this topic, i was reading some of the briefs in this case, argentina, colombia have allowed
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certain lawsuits on behalf of endangered animals. it's not out of the question everywhere and it is a case that makes you think more than you expect at first but ultimately i don't think it will win. >> i mean, it's fascinating case. on the backdrop that i think the irony is lost on no one on the backdrop of waiting for a roe v wade opinion about defining a person and who has rights, it's a really fascinating case. thank you so much. >> okay, counselor. >> we'll be right back. [ joe ] my teeth were a mess. i had a lot of pain. as far as my physical health, my body was telling me you got to do something. and so i came to clearchoice. your mouth is the gateway to your body. joe's treatment plan was replacing the teeth with dental implants from clearchoice. [ joe ] clearchoice has changed my life for the better. it's given me my health back. there's an amazing life out there if you do something for your health now.
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thanks for watching. i'll be back tomorrow. don lemon tonight starts now with don lemon. hey, don. >> hi. since we have the news about
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january 6th, i want to ask with you legal mind, what impacts do you think the hearings will have on the country. many of the people or most of people involved have faced the judge how or the legal system in some way. how do you think it will affect the court of public opinion once it happens and is playing out on television? >> i think it will be impactful in that the court of public opinion is the electorate. this is who it's for. people have to remember the legislative branch has a goal in mind of trying to prevent this from happening again. these are people who asked to lead from voters. what they have spent the better part of nearly two years or year and a half doing will be of paramount of importance. this has been a huge issue. i think congress would make a mistake to over estimate the attention span of the american ele


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