tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN May 20, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
with prop a is essential to ensuring everyone in san francisco can get to work and school safely and reliably. prop a improves pedestrian and bike safety throughout san francisco. prop a benefits everyone in every neighborhood, regardless of their income. vote yes, and soon we'll all see the impact of a everywhere. thank you for watching. i'll be back monday night. "don lemon tonight" starts right now. hi, don lemon. >> laura, i love having you here to talk about this legal stuff. one big purveyor is rudy giuliani now speaking to the committee and for quite some time. the significance, please. >> first of all, nine hours of rudy giuliani talking to the
committee? you know in the next few weeks you'll hear the public hearings of the committee. i'm surprised that he's not a part of that, but that tells me they actually wanted to get answers and not have the greatest show on earth that would happen in front fortof th cameras. the fact that he entered into a subpoena, answered it and answered questions. he is a person that was actively trying to ask legislators to overturn an election, to overturn the will of the people. so they have rudy giuliani testify for a nine-hour period? i bet they have a lot of information from him. >> i'm sure there's more to come from that. laura, you have yourself a fantastic weekend. >> thank you, you, too. >> thank you. i'll see you later. this is "don lemon tonight." here's the breaking news tonight. first, in person rudy giuliani meeting with the january 6 committee for nine hours.
rudy giuliani, personal attorney to then-president and the number one promoter of the big lie of election fraud was subpoenaed by the committee. he backed out of his original deposition but sat for a virtual interview today. we'll have a lot more on that in just a moment. meanwhile, the big picture for most americans, it is the economy. you're all feeling it, we're all feeling it. people have been saying that for years, right? right now i know that you're really feeling it. prices are going up and up and up for everything from food that you put on your table to the gas you put in your tank. home prices of rent, through the roof. 401(k)s, losing ground every single day. then there is, of course, the baby formula shortage. what are we going to do about that? this white house can help some of it but a lot they can't do anything about. this will be on everybody's minds when they go to the polls in november. we've got more tonight from buffalo.
that's where a community is reeling after a racist massacre. last night you heard my interview with letitia rogers. she's the woman who worked in the supermarket and she tells me she called 911 while people were being shot all around her, only to have the dispatcher hang up on her because she was whispering while she was hiding from the killer. >> i'm not a cold-hearted person at all, and i wouldn't want anybody to try to get me fired, but right is right and wrong is wrong, and that was absolutely wrong how she handled that situation. i do feel like she should be terminated, and i feel like when she hung up on me and she never called back, she left me to die and i would be the one to die that day. >> people like letitia in that buffalo neighborhood, are trying to figure out how to go on in the face of that brutal attack. tonight i'm going to talk to a player from the buffalo bills who says he felt like the shooting was in his own backyard. you'll hear what he and his team
are doing to help. so let's get right, though, to our breaking news tonight. rudy giuliani meeting with the january 6 committee for nine hours tonight. ryan nobles here with our breaking news. ryan, good evening to you. rudy giuliani met with the january 6 committee today. what do you know? >> reporter: fursirst of all, w know the meeting took place virtually and it took place during grueling negotiations between attorneys of rudy giuliani and the january 6 committee. and it came after giuliani backed out of a prior deposition that was planned for a few weeks ago. you remember the last time righ around when giuliani was set to sit with the committee, he backed out because he wanted to be able to videotape that deposition and then release it to the public when that deposition was over. the committee didn't agree to that. they wanted to be able to handle it according to the way their investigation is going to play out. even though giuliani backed away
from the interview that time, his attorney said they were still negotiating with the committee about the parameters of this conversation. what's important here, don, even though they had giuliani under subpoena, they wanted to have a conversation with him that would elicit information. they wanted to make it clear they wouldn't ask questions that would fall in the areas of executive privilege or attorney/client privilege, but they wanted to ask him questions of the law they believed he would be able to answer. it became a lengthy interview, more than nine hours, i'm told. we don't know how sub sstantive the information he provided, but the fact that it was this long shows you the committee must have had some success in the questions they asked of giuliani today. >> we're sure to find out a lot of what rudy giuliani had to say in the coming months and days. rudy giuliani is a key figure in
peddling the big lie. what use is he to that committee? >> the committee is, of course, tasked with the responsibility of figuring out why the capitol insurrection took place. there is a question of why they're spending so much time about the false claims made about the election results. that's where giuliani plays a significant role. he was perhaps the biggest pur ha veyor of the big lie, serving as a personal attorney of donald trump. he was working on this plan right up until what happened on january 6, including coming up and purveying these very questionable legal theories about the role former vice president mike pence could play. he also had a role in trying to file fake electors around the country. the committee believes those two things are interchangeable, that you do not have the insurrection on january 6 without all the
peddling of the false information in the days and weeks leading up to january 6. part of what they're trying to do is connect the dots between all these different events that led to the violence and chaos on that day. there may not be anyone who has more information about the ways those dots could be connected than rudy giuliani. that's why he was such an important figure and an important player in this conversation and why the committee was insistent that he come before them. >> let's not forget he had a lot of help around him. the cracken lady, the u.s. attorney, gorkin. all those people around him just lying. thank you very much. i appreciate that. ryan nobles joining us from washington this evening. now i want to bring in white house counsel john dees. who can forget that four seasons presser. it was unbelievable, the four seasons hotel and then they
ended up at the landscaping -- that shows you how odd this was. you had the guy with dye streaking down his face. there he is right there. given all this, do you think he's a useful witness? >> i think he's going to be a defendant at some point, don, but he obviously is a potentially great witness. he knows pretty much the whole picture from the start to the finish as was mentioned, he's probably the architect of at least a phase of it with other people chipping in and giving their two cents about how they could pull this amazing fraud they were undertaking off. >> listen, you've been here before during watergate, so if you're on the committee, and you've been on a committee like this before, what sort of questions would you be asking giuliani? >> i think that the area they got to get around fuirst is to establish clearly he has no privilege of any kind.
he's an open witness, so i think they meet that hurdle. so the question now is where do they go? and they try to get to donald trump's intent, what he was doing, just as with me as a key witness, they wanted to know as much as i could tell them about richard nixon. yes, they were interested in the general broad conspiracy, who else was involved, nixon's top aides were involved, they wanted to know about them, but they really wanted to know about the president. that's the picture when you have a presidential undertaking of this nature that's corrupt, that's what the congress wants to find out and know how to deal with it. >> i want to go back to the prior question i had about his credibility. i want viewers to see the kind witness we're talking about. rudy giuliani's character during all of this. listen to what we heard from him on january 6 at that rally. >> if we're wrong, we will be
made fools of. but if we're right, a lot of them will go to jail. [ cheers and applause ] >> so let's have trial by combat! i'm willing to stake my reputation, the president is willing to stake his reputation on the fact that we're going to find criminality there. >> so you have all these an partiantics, the bronzer or hair dye or whatever it was streaming down his face. you have the four seasons total landscaping rather than the hotel, you have all the lies that he spewed, and then you have this, trial by combat. he was just one of the many people inside trump's inner circle speaking in violent terms, john, about what was coming on january 6. the significance of that, connecting the election lie with the violence that we saw on that day.
>> well, he's calling for overt action on a conspiracy. there is clearly a conspiracy. that's not going to take prosecutors any time at all or the committee any time at all to establish. a lot of it is in writing. a lot of it is in text messages. the key is where were they going with this? how does rudy fit in with the plan, the big plan? they know they've lost, so they've got to undo and unwind, and it's an impossible task, so it is a coup. they know what they're doing, at least they've got a plan to do it. and i think when that surfaces before the american people, it probably will not be from rudy giuliani directly. it will all come indirectly, because he's -- he does have a fifth amendment privilege and he's going to lean on it heavily, i suspect. >> nine hours, as a matter of fact, more than nine hours, that's quite a long time.
does that sound like someone who is taking the fifth or is he actually answering questions? >> it could be a combination of both. he doesn't want to find himself in contempt of the committee, he's a skillful lawyer, he's a former prosecutor, he's somebody who understands the way it works. he was in the department of justice at one point, he was, as i say, a u.s. attorney ain a vey important district, the southern district of new york. he knows how to play the game and try to thread the needle. whether he's done so successfully or not, i don't know. the other possibility is he was given immunity. i don't know if that happened or not but he could have been. i suspect we'll find out more in the coming hours and days. >> john dean, always a pleasure. good to see you. thanks so much. >> thanks, don. like i said, americans are really worried right now about the direction of the country. it might be bad for biden's
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crisis after another, prices going up from the food you put on your table to the roof over your head while 401(k)s are headed down. not to mention david axelrod. i wish i had better news to talk about. good to see both of you. david, this economic picture is sort of hard. people are really worried right now. the mood in country troubled. what kind of leadership is needed here, do you think? >> the question is what can leadership do? there are limited levers to pull here relative to some of the things that are troubling people. obviously on the baby formula issue, he's exercised the defense production act, and there are things you can do at the margins, but in many ways he's at the mercy of larger forces here.
you know, inflation is hard to reverse. the fed has the major cudgel here, but that involves raising interest rates which has its own problems. there are other things you could do relative to tariffs or student loans that would be popular. there really aren't any tools here for him and that's what makes him so comfortable. >> having said that, knowing that in the background, how would you -- you have to put on a good face, right? if you were with the president, what would your advice be? >> my advice would be to go after price gouging wherever i see it, whether it's energy companies or any other entity that is taking advantage of the situation and make clear that there are forces that are p
profiteering that you are willing to confront. you need to connote action and take it wherever you could find it. but it's a tough situation, don, and time is running out. you know, these things don't turn around in a hurry, and now we're almost into june. and before you know it, people are going to begin casting ballots. so i'm sure there is a great deal of concern in the white house right now. >> scott, i see you shaking your head in agreement. before you comment, let me just put up some of the headlines here. cnn, the dow is on the longest weekly losing streak since 1923. "new york times," markets are down for the seventh straight week despite late rally. s&p 500 tips into bear market as recession thoughts grow. people are freaking out. what is the political impact of all of this?
>> obviously joe biden has been suffering from low job approval, really, since the afghanistan debacle since last fall. it's never really gone back up, and this is another anvil on him, all these economic hits that keep on coming. you can talk babout the macro issues in the economy which we do often, but his real problem is the micro engagement, the parents who can't get baby f formula, or the parents who thought they saved for college and their 529 has crashed, going to the graduation and paying $5 for a gallon of gas. these micro engagements in the economy can really gnaw at a presidency, because even the non-political people start thinking about who they can old accountable. i know election turnout is a little lower, but when you have anxiety like this in the country, it can bring people out and get them casting ballots that you don't expect, and for joe biden in ways that they
wouldn't like come november. i mean, if you're the republicans, obviously it's the best environment just to speak raw politics that we've had in quite a long time. and as david pouinted out, it's really hard to turn a ship like this when you're so far gone down this rabbit hole. >> this weekend, david, president biden's program will fly thousands of baby formula in. it sounds impressive. it is, but did he act fast enough on this crisis? >> i don't know if he acted fast enough, but this is action he needs to take. he needs to show he's taking a if you remaffirmative steps to of this. this is one that may pass before
inflation, because you're seeing manufacturing ramping up and so on. this may pass before the election, but scott's right, you know, it's these things that touch your daily life that impact on people's orientation. and nobody is really asking the republicans what is your answer to this, and they don't really need to offer one and they're not really offering one. they just need to sit back and take advantage of the situation, and right now, you know, there are strong, strong headwinds in the face of the president's party. >> you know, scott, listen, we've talked about this before when trump was in office about who is actually responsible for the economy and the stock market. trump always said, stock markets, but the buck stops with the person who is in the oval office. the economy globally isn't doing great.
so here at home biden's approval numbers are 40%. it sounds counter-intuitive. republicans might think they can beat the democrats and the president without having to lean on trump and all the issues that come with a full maga embrace? >> i mean, if i were donald trump, i mean, look, as you know, don, i've said on your show many times, i think he's going to run again. i think the republicans are going to do well in november. i think he will perceive it as the country came to its senses sk and he'll think he's going to run the easiest campaign of all time. he'll interpret the midterm results as the beginning of that referendum. whether biden runs again or not, i guess, is the question or whether people get it out of their system and the country recovers in the next two years after that is another question, but i think if i'm donald trump, this is a pretty simple equation
as things crumble around biden. one more thing, and -- >> before you go there, let me ask you this. you sort of got to the answer of the question. you said he's thinking all of these things, right, like, hey, look, this is going to be great for me, but is he in a way sort of underestimating the way people actually feel about him and trumpism at this point? there are many republicans who may like trumpism but they don't necessarily like trump. that was the crux of my question there. >> oh, look, remember him in 2016, nobody really liked him but they voted for him because hillary clinton was the most unpopular democrat candidate for president -- >> you're missing my point. the question is will they choose another republican other than trump because trump can be so toxic? >> yeah. great question. if you have 10, 12, 14 people
running for president, donald trump could easily win in a fractured situation. he's stronger with the party than he was then. >> republican party rules are such that it's winner take all. it's not proportional. you know the old joke about the two guys who see the bear in the woods and one guy stops and drops his bag and puts gym shoes on and the other guy says, what are you doing, you can't outrun that bear, and the first guy says, i don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun you. that's the same here. donald trump just has to run against 14 other guys. i think he's the odds-on favorite to be the republican nominee in 2024. >> so there's a consensus. you guys agree. thank you, both. thank you, david. see you later. next, a rare look at tensions brewing behind closed doors in the supreme court in
the wake of a leaked draft decision of roe v. wade. did clarence thomas say this before john roberts joined? >> we may have been a dysfunctional l family, but we were a famamily. and we loveded it. mom: where are you going? ♪ ♪ so today let's stain, with behr, the #1 rated stain. and make your deck, yours. behr. exclusively at the home depot. the mosquitoes are just all over the quiet please. okay. wow! [light bulb brks] hey! i said get a pro. i did get a pro. an orkin pro. osquitoes buzzing] i got you. t mosquitoes? don't call any pro, call the orkin pro. orkin. the best in pests. [ kimberly ] before clearchoice, my dental health was so bad i would be in a lot of pain.
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opinion that would overturn roe v. wade, and as the court gets closer to its final decision, the justices themselves may be at odds. in a recent conference, clarence thomas, justice clarence thomas, i should say, took a rare public jab at the chief justice john roberts saying this about what the court was like just before he joined in 2005. >> the court that was here was a fabulous court. it was one you looked forward to be a part of. we maiy have been a dysfunctionl family, but we were a family. you loved it. you trusted each other, you laughed together, you went to lunch together every day, and i only hope that you can keep it. >> let's bring in chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. jeffrey, good evening. this is an incredibly blunt take by clarence thomas and a clear swipe on justice roberts saying the coast was clear before
roberts arrived. why? >> because the court is in a very weird place right now. this court -- it's a very private place in ordinary circumstances, and there are norms of behavior that have been observed there not really for decades but for centuries. i mean, the supreme court as an institution, in terms of how it operates, has not really changed much in decade after decade. and now we have a situation where an opinion -- the draft opinion has been leaked. there have been subsequent leaks about subsequent developments in this abortion case, and the court is really in some institutional disarray. now, that is not as important as the result that appears to be coming. what matters is that the supreme court is about to take a right away from american women that they've had for almost 50 years.
but just in terms of the institution, the court is really in a place it hasn't been, and they are flailing around, and i think justice thomas' clear diss of chief justice roberts in that comment is an illustration of how discomforted they all are by the current situation. >> right on. listen, and the possibility of what's going to happen with roe v. wade, that is the more substantive issues here. but you have to look at there is a sitting justice, clarence thomas. he is taking a clear swipe, as you called it, at the chief justice. the chief justice is not taking a swipe at clarence thomas. clarence thomas is talking about the integrity of the court when you have his wife who he has gotten lots of criticism from. to what end? why is clarence thomas talking about the integrity of the court and yet he's taking a swipe at the chief justice and the chief justice is not doing the same thing. it does not make sense. it seems very hypocritical.
>> it's very weird. and it's especially weird when you consider that clarence thomas is running the supreme court right now. there are five justices who are aligned with thomas in case after case, and under the rules of the supreme court, when those five are a majority, clarence thomas as the senior associate justice gets to assign the opinion. in the dobbs case, which is the big abortion case, was a classic example of that if the leaks are accurate as they appear to be. it means clarence thomas assigned justice alito to write that opinion. that's an enormous power of the supreme court, so why he would be so aggrieved at a moment when his power has never been greater makes his comment even more peculiar. but i don't pretend to understand what's going on inside clarence thomas' head,
but i know from the outside that clarence thomas, who was an outcast conservative when he joined the court in 1991, is now at the idealogical center of the court. that's how much the court has changed. >> listen, the leak of the draft opinion on roe was a huge blow to the court's integrity. it was unprecedented. could some of the justices be looking at roberts and thinking that he has lost control of the ship? >> absolutely. i think that's what thomas implicitly was saying that, you know, in the old days under chief justice ranquist, the ship ran smoothly and roberts has lost control. that's the message. and it used to be a happy family and now it's a dysfunctional family. what chief justice roberts could do about someone leaking, i don't know. i mean, it's a very small court. that's the thing that i'm not sure everyone understands, is
that you're talking about an institution with nine justices, each with four law clerks. that means there are 45 people who really have the knowledge of what's going on. there is some support staff, but the people who are intimately familiar are those 45 people. that's not a lot of people, but it is enough people so that chief justice roberts doesn't know what they're doing all the time. >> jeffrey, thank you, sir. i appreciated seeing you. >> thank you. grief and mourning in buffalo. the victims laid to rest in the wake of a massive massacre. the community coming together in the wake of a tragedy. your mon. this stuff works on big lawns, small lawnwns, and “i guess you can call that a lawn” lawns. this stuff works without killing your lawn. this stuff works without killing your weekend. this stuff works for the rookies and the seasoned pros.
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dead. as the community begins to lay those people to rest, they are facing that earth-shattering day and wondering how they can go on with all they've lost. >> that racist young man took my mother away. >> reporter: nearly a week after a racist attack on buffalo's east side left ten people dead -- >> how dare you! >> reporter: -- grief and shock are now giving way to a community trying to figure out how it will move forward amid stories of heroism and survival. eight-year-old london thomas went to tops to help gather supplies for a family cookout. >> we went to the back of the store where the milk is, and, like, the door was locked and we could not get out. >> reporter: as bullets ripped through the store, she hid in a cooler with her dad. >> i was scared for my mom.
i did not know what happened to her because she was at the front and if was at the back. >> 20 minutes later they were gone and that was the longest day of my life. >> reporter: she tried to call 911 as soon as the shooting started but said she was hung up on by the operator. >> i gave her my address and i said, please help, there is a person in the store shooting. she proceeded to say to me, what, i can't hear you. why are you whispering? you don't have to whisper. they can't hear you. so i said, ma'am, he's still in the store, he's still shooting and by this time he is literally still shooting in the background, and i feel like when she hung up on me and she never called back, i feel like she left me to die. >> in her eventual escape, rogers recognized two people she knew dead on the floor. one was deacon hayward
patterson, the first person laid to rest friday in buffalo. >> he would help people all the time. he helped senior scitizens and people get to the grocery store and buy their groceries and drop off their groceries. e he was actually loading groceries in the back of another vehicle helping someone else and he got shot in the back. he didn't even see it coming. >> a retired security guard is now being hailed as a hero. >> what chokes me up the most is i know if my dad was evenly matched with him, even though he was -- he came with all that hate, and my dad was evenly matched with him, twoit would h been a different outcome. >> reporter: the only food outlet for miles around, the tops market is more than just a grocery store to this community. jerome bridges said he was ready to take a bullet to protect his
customers. >> i just wanted to make sure i kept my customers and the other three coworkers very safe, so even if i had died, it would have been me dying protecting them. >> reporter: geneva smith johnson knew five victims killed in the shooting. >> i can't see myself going back in there. it can recover, but it will be a while before recovery occurs. it's not going to happen overnight. it's going to take a while. >> reporter: marvin morris grew up here. he says the community fought hard to bring a grocery store to the neighborhood and says they'll fight for more investment in the wake of the attack. >> this kbrarea on the east sidf buffalo, predominantly black, is a food desert, so this is the only store in the neighborhood that offers full groceries. >> as we head to midnight on friday, and it will surely be a
dyiffyifficult anniversary of t attack. the memorial has grown here. they believe they fought for years to get this tops store here and it brought other businesses here. now they're worried even if this reopens as promised, the economic viability of this neighborhood could take a nosedive as a result of this attack. >> the community will be reeling over this for quite some time. thank you very much. we appreciate that. the buffalo bills reaching out to the community to help, donating $400,000. the bills' defensive end used to live in the neighborhood himself. this is incredibly shockcking f him. we'll hear f from him.
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people in buffalo are coming together as a city to support the families of ten people who were killed in that racist massacre over the weekend, and that includes the buffalo bills. together the bills foundation and the nfl foundation are donating $400,000 to the community. many of them wearing sweatshirts with the words choose love. and gathering to prepare and serve meals to members of the devastated community. beautiful outpouring of love in the aftermath of evil inspired by racism. joining me now is bills defensive end shaq lossen who lived in the community. so happy to have you. thank you so much for joining and what you're doing. good evening to you, sir. >> thanks for having me. >> this was your old neighborhood. you used to shop at the tops market. this shooting hit home, didn't
it? >> yes, it did. when i first started playing with buffalo. i end up moving downtown and i used to shop at that tops super mar market, all the time, you know, i used to go in there and i know people from the east side of buffalo so it hit home. >> so shaq, i got to ask you, visiting the scene on wednesday, what were you feeling, sir? >> man, it was very emotional for us to go over there, you know. seeing that people that lost they lives, just going back to see, it gave me chills, like, bad chills in my body, like i feel like that could have been anybody. so any one of us could have been one of my grandma, uncles, things like that. so that is -- going on that scene was very emotional. >> listen, one of the pictures we have up now you guys are wearing shirts that say choose love, which is true. we all need to choose love over the hate that happen there had.
after visiting the memorial at the tops market, your teammates and the bills' staff worked with the world central kitchen, jose andres doing good stuff. can you talk to me more what it was like to talk with them, the verd victim's families and hear about the family members they lost so suddenly and violently? >> it was just -- you don't got no words. speechless. seeing them, anything we can make a smile, bring some type of joy we try our best. very speechless. you can't say nothing. it's a devastating thing to the community and for our people and things like that. >> shaq, i know you're personally donating $10,000 to the family foundation of bills hall of fame thomas to support the community. what do they need most right
now? >> they need community support. they need us to all come together for them, for the families and most important, the funds and stuff going to be there. that's going to come. we need to make a change for us all, you know. this has been going on for years and years and just -- we need to make a change and find a way to impact this for next generation, just coming up on and after us. >> shaq, what do you want your friends and fans in buffalo to know tonight? >> that we got all the support, the buffalo whole team is behind y'all and anything we can do in any way possible, we would like to help. my next thing i'm planning on is donating scholarships to family names that lost their lives and donate scholarships to probably one of they kids or grandkids they had, trying to go to
college and stuff like that. >> that's good stuff there, shaq. shaq lawson, thank you and again, we appreciate you joining us. best of luck to you. >> yes, sir, thank you so much. rudy giuliani meeting with the january 6th committee today and it wasn't a breezy in and out. he was there for nine hours, more than nine hours. what it means for the investigation, that's next. nce l so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we arere not getting you a helicopter. ononly pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty. liberty.♪ [bacon sizzles] [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ [bacon sizzles] ♪electronic music plays] ♪ woo!
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this is "don lemon tonight." breaking news, rudy giuliani meeting with the january 6th committee for more than nine hours today. the one-time personal attorney was a major player in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. counting down to the high profile primary in georgia, the battle for the republican nomination for governor, the candidate backed by trump trailing badly tonight and making the cut, golfing great tiger woods rebounding in the
second round of the pga champ kron make the cut. i want to bring in ron br brownstein, ellie and the executive producer of "the circus." rudy giuliani meeting with the january 6th committee for nine hours today. you say this posts a major threat to everybody, how so? >> yeah, don, rudy giuliani's testimony is dangerous to a lot of people starting with rudy giuliani himself. it hard to think of any individual who has more legal problems than rudy giuliani. he being sued for defamation but election machine companies and he's had his law license revoked. he's appealing that. he's under criminal
investigation by the south ern district of new york that he once led. every word rudy giuliani said can be used against him like the fifth amendment warning. it's possible he took the fifth to some questions but no way he was in there for nine hours ask did nothing but take the fifth for nine hours. it's certain he did answer some of the questions. >> mark, look, rudy giuliani was a ringleader in the push to overturn the election. he pushed crazy conspiracy theories like? >> you're actually seriously going to want me to take seriously the secretary of state of michigan when michigan -- when the secretary of the state of michigan never bothered to find out the votes in her state were being counted in germany by a venezuela company? >> i mean, mark, he told so many lies about the
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