the january 6th presents new evidence that donald trump trying to get the election overturned. he knew that much of what he was doing was illegal. but he did it anyway. first, i want to get you to cnn

with the latest. >> reporter: the pressure pain was relentless, trying to get mike pence to do something that no vice president had ever done. to try to get his installment for president for a second time. pence was presiding over a joint session of congress. >> it was a different tone that i had ever heard a vice president before. >> reporter: the supporters would take aim at the vice president. >> mike pence will have to come through for us. if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country.

>> reporter: the rioters echoing the president's remarks. >> if pence comes, we'll drag the [bleep] through the streets. >> reporter: trump still attacked pence and twitter as the mob was 40 feet away from the vice president. he told him that he had no authority to take such action. >> did the vice president convey his issue to the president, not just the world but directly to president trump? >> many times. >> and had been consistent in conveying his position? >> very consistent. >> reporter: he kept saying that the vice president had the authority. >> he let the legislatures of the state look into this and to

get to the bottom of it. >> i thought he was crazy? i said are you out of your f'ing mind? you're going to cause riots in the streets. >> reporter: they sent these text messages to mark meadows, saying on january 5th, i'm worried about the next 48 hours. but as he was peddling the theory, eastman knew it was bogus. writing january 2020, nowhere does the president of the senate get to make the decision on his own. pence recalls tense negotiations in the white house, including the one on january 5th. >> what surprised me about the meeting is when mr. eastman came in, he said, i'm here to request that you reject the electors. he came in and expressly requested that.

>> reporter: as trump and pence were privately sparked by the vice president's role, the white house issued a statement saying that he and the advice press that pence had the power to act. >> we're shocked and disappointed who put that statement out, it was categorically untrue. as for eastman, he had this request through trump that he sent through rudy giuliani. >> he decided i should be on the pardon list. that is still in the works. >> reporter: as this committee is moving ahead, it facing pressure to turn over transcripts to help with their own investigation. but they said they would not provide the justice department with that information because of concerns with the justice department it could delay their own probe from going forward.

thompson said they will eventually they will cooperate. will they refer donald trump or anybody for further investigation, potential prosecution? that is something they have not made a final decision on. they said they would wait for the final report to come out before waiting on the topic even though he indicated that was not the area he wanted to pursue. >> thank you very much. let's go to the folks and talk about this. i'm going to start with you, nina, we're learning details about the relentless campaign from president trump to reject the will of the voters. but massive people around trump knew it was a massive lie. why were they able to go so

far? >> the enduring belief in the guardrails. american democracy stronger than any one president or party and then it would be strong enough to withstand that drive- thru donald trump wanted to do. if you are donald trump in the after math of the election on the eve of january 6th, you're a man who has been able to get away with breaking lots of rules and suffering no consequences. if you think about, for instance, his first impeachment hearing. he must realize that he's going to have people that rally around him to believe him to defend him, no matter what. so in the end, you have a man that goes to great lengths at pressuring mike pence with all sorts of lies, seeding these thoughts in 2016, after he lost

the popular vote. he believed that he could do anything and get away with it. and it could be 2024, he could be elect the president again and not face any punishment for in grave threat to american democracy that he incited on january sixth. >> he was well aware that it was complete bs. >> we had a extended discussion an hour and a half to two hours on january 5th. when i pressed him on the point, i said, john, if the vice president did what you're asking him to do, would will lose 9-1 in the supreme court, won the he? he initially started, i think you would lose 7-2. and after

further discussion, acknowledged, yes, you're right we would lose 9-0. jacob told trump that his plan would violate the election. >> there is a reason that he pleads the fifth amendment against self-incrimination because he thinks that he may have committed a crime 146 times. that is why he asked for a presidential pardon. he knew that he was asking, pushing for the government to take actions that you knew were unlawful, he violating the law. there are any number of fraud statues conspiring the united states that a federal judge said that he, perhaps working in concert of the united states, may have violated the law at least two different times. it is quite shameful here.

and one thing that struck me today was from one of his e- mails, you know him, once he gets something in his head, it is hard for him to change course. they knew that they were breaking the law and the president clearly knew that what they were pushing was wrong. but it is hard for him to change course. so what we saw here, done, was possibly evidence of a crime. >> he knew that there was a mob at the capitol when pence didn't have the courage to do what needed to be done,. >> he is a traitor and he deserves to burn with the rest of them.

>> pence did not do what we wanted. >> we have been here on the steps. >> we heard that pence is not going to reject any vote. mike pence has betrayed the united states of america. [ booing ] >> mike pence has betrayed this president and the people of the united states and we will never, ever forget. >> it is frightening, honestly. that is the right response. the former white house aide said that trump's tweet was like pouring gasoline on a fire. do you agree with that? >> absolutely. he made a horrible situation worse. while that was going on, we heard testimony today that mike pence was in the safety of the

capitol 40 feet away from the protesters that said that they were more than willing to take his life. look at that. mike pence waiting to do his duty to certify the election results. he's there with his bible and the outrage. this is another example of donald trump, regardless of the advice he was given, he goes with what he wants to be fact. he shops around his advisers who will confirm his belief and what he wants to do. we just heard the other day, rudy giuliani, you thought there could not be more of a clown in this situation, enters

john eastman and continues to provide factually miss information to the president. they say there was no justifiable legal theory for what he was telling trump. he did it anyway. this is despicable what happened. it defies reality. i'm glad to see that the doj is keeping an eye on this and asking for witness testimony. i hope people that are responsible or held accountable. but i'll be interested to see what happens in the court of law. if it does change any minds in the court of public opinion. >> you know, alice, you oakley get into arguments with people on the panel. i asked earlier about fear. do you ever get concerned about speaking your mind and saying these things about rudy giuliani and the president and

what they did regarding january 6th? >> i get a lot from people on social media that like to use their social media bravery and hide behind animosity. i am not worried about speaking my mind. i need to speak what is true and what i know to be fact than to blindly follow a false narrative of election fraud and a stolen election, which most people that are rational and of sound mind and body know there was no election fraud and no reason to incite this right at the capitol. >> what the people were saying against mike pence and others, we did not have the insurrection otherwise. let's play more. here's what else the committee

said about the danger to mike pence. >> vice president pence and his team were led to a secure location where they stayed for the next four and a half hours, barely missing rioters a few feet away. >> approximately 40 feet, that is all there was. 40 feet between the vice president and the mob. >> mr. attorney, did the committee make the case that trump's actions led to a direct threat to the vp's life? >> certainly. perhaps not the criminally chargeable way, don. but they have been making the case repeatedly that the president -- for instance the first hearing, they played the moment at which the tweet is read 2:26 p.m. the guy on the megaphone is saying, hang mike pence. you know, something that is

getting buried today from the judge, the conservative judge that testified today, making the case that this is not just about january 6th, but the underlining causes that led to the kinds of things that were why your question, the unrest and violence has not gone away. and it could affect the 2024 elections if it is not dealt in a strong way. thank god it was a conservative voice making the message at this point. it is an important one. is not just about one day of violence. >> i think you can even make the argument that trump might be more powerful now than he was then. if you think where the republicans are, of the vast majority of them believe in donald trump's big lies, that were built on smaller lies that we saw laid out so masterfully today in that areas.

he seems poised to run for re- election and announce at some point that he will run reelection. people are being installed that believe in the big lie and could have the power to overturn the yield of voters. you have a governor that says that he believes in the big lie and he would have the power to appoint a secretary of state that could do donald trump's bidding. you talk about the clear and present danger. it is very abundantly clear that january 6th was just a dry run for what could happen in

2024. >> i think mike pence upheld democracy a hero. because that was his job. he may be weighing a one for president as well. >> there is a share of the republican party. we have alice on our panel tonight. there is a share that agrees with mike pence that might vote for them in a primary. but i think the vast majority of republicans are in line with trump. you saw the emotion that is on display. on january 6th, that is not necessarily contained to those folks. there is a raw and emotional attachment that many republicans have for this president and his beliefs. >> alice, what do you say about that, mike pence running? >> i expect him top do so. he'll have a lot of support that he already had and get a lot more based on what we're

learning in these hearings. >> you think? scott jennings said, donald trump is going to get up on the stage with everyone and say mike pence detrade our country. >> mike pence did what he is constitutionally obligated to do. most people realize that is the role of the vice president. >> is that where your party is today? is that where you think he will be in 2024? >> there are is a large swath of the republican party that still looks at him as the head of the republican party. many of them are not watching the tick-tock of these hearings. more are looking at issues like inflation and crime and gas prices as to what they're going to vote for in 2024. they're not paying that close

attention. to be quite honest, surprisingly, there are a lot of people, no matter comes out of this hearing will not change their mind about donald trump and his false beliefs that there was a lot of election fraud. but there are a lot of people that are watching it and learning a lot of things that are disturbing happened on january sixth and election night and the advice that the president was given by a team of serious advisers that he neglected to listen to. instead, he took the advice from people of rudy giuliani and john eastman. >> everyone is nodding in the affirmative. are you shocked? >> i would hope that everybody here is rational people and and what it constitution stands for. >> i'm just here to tell you what you could go to jail for. >> he's just here so he will

not get fined. >> i guess i'll get a pardon. a violent mob overrunning the capitol and the life of the former vice president at risk. if nothing changes, is there a real chance it could happen again?

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he pushed it anyway, even as a mob descended on the capitol? is that the our democracy now, mob and violence? >> the judge said that the closing point was not looking backwards of january 6th and looking forward at 2022 and 2024 and seeing trump as a clear and present danger. that was the phrase that he used. >> i'll play that. this is a former federal judge, very conservative. >> almost two more years after that fateful day in january of 2021, that still, donald trump

and his allies and supporters are in clear and present danger to american democracy. >> so he is very well respected, right? he was almost nominated to the supreme court. it was interesting to me, because i was lit seasoning on the satellite radio because i was running errands today. and thought he was just, even when he was slow to respond. he was a really good witness. trump and his allies are still spouting election lies. do you think it could happen again? >> not only could it happen again. but when the unthinkable happens, to me, the trump is

again and again. once you shatter a norm and a barrier, you moved to a different place. so not only is it a challenge to the election possible, this is the first time in american history that a president has refused to accept defeat and has interfered with the peaceful transfer of power. and now there say first time, is it easier to invision a second. they're the secretary of states in places that are responsible for how the elections are going on to counted and carry the out in the future. if the election doesn't go your way and you control the state legislature, why not change the

results? that is so chilling to me. they were contemplating overturning the results. >> i wonder if you thought about this moment and if you thought it was effective in this is what greg jacob brought up. >> history was decisive. part of my discussion of mr. eastman, i said don't you know that al gore had the authority to overturn the results. but text structure, history, i think what we had ambiguous text that common sense and structure would tell you that the answer cannot possibly be that the vice president has that authority as they have

played the vice president's remarks. there is anything unamerican that an american person would choose the american president and break the practice of 230 years that the vice president did not have such authority. >> what do you think of that, susan? >> you remember, the florida dispute election in 2000, it was 500 votes that separated the two candidates. that was a close election. in 2020 it was not close. if the closest state, we're talking about thousands and thousands of votes separating biden and trump. so it wasn't even close, first of all. the big difference between 2000 and 2020 is it that al gore and

bush accepted the results and asked the country to come together around the outcome. you have the president that gone to war against any outcome that did not have him as a winner. of that is someone that does not believe in the american system. where did pence's lawyer bring that up was so revealing. we highlight this in our book that is going to come out in the fall, when he's saying, what about al gore should have been the president. john eastman basically said, al gore should have not been president. the theory is -- it is literally absurd. that is the thing. i'm not a lawyer. but in purely technical terms this is ridiculous what he was

telling. and donald trump did not care. the point was what said. >> and now the january sixth committee wants to speak with jenny thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas in her role in trying to overturn the 2020 election results. buried in receipts, invoices and other paperwork that's preventing you from doing what matters most? then get the all new epson rapidreceipt smart organizer to scan, digitize and organize your documents and receipts. paper goes in and stress goes away. it's the only solution on the market specifically designed to extract and digitize key data trapped on receipts and invoices. and it integrates with financial software like quickbooks and turbotax. transform paper documents like contracts, tax records, warranties, wills, even recipes, into searchable pdfs.

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the january sixth committee sending a request to jenny thomas. it appears that the wife of supreme court clarence thomas to talk. what is the committee hoping to learn from jenny thomas? >> the source familiar with the temperature confirmed to cnn that the january 6th committee has e-mails between jenny thomas and john eastman, who in today's hearing to have taken the fifth a hundred times when questioned about his role in the apparent to overthrow the government. he is the conservative lawyer that argued that mike pence could throw out the electors in 7 states and let republican lawmakers award the votes instead to trump. we don't know a lot about the

content of the e-mails. but the notes shows that thomas's efforts to overturn the election were more extensive than previously known. they have 29 text messages between jenny thomas and then white house chief of staff mark meadows after his boss, donald trump lost. for example, she wrote, help this great president stand firm, mark. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist of our history. in regard to trump's legal team challenging the results, release the kracken and save us from the left taking america down. and days after the attack on the capitol failed to stop the confirmation of biden's win. she wrote, it feels like the end of america, amazing times, the end of liberty. jenny tom also wrote out to

lawmakers in arizona urging them to reject what the voters wanted and choose a clean slate of electors saying that they need to fight back from fraud. she said this responsibility is yours and yours alone. she told the free beacon, i played no role in those planning and leading the january 6th events. i was disappointed and frustrated that there was violence. she said that clarence doesn't his work with me and i don't involve him in mine. a massive drop on wall street. nasdaq closed 700 points. it is the lowest level in a

year. are we heading towards a recession?

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a rough day for stocks with the dow closing at its lowest level in a year after the feds announced they would increase interest rates by three- quarters of a percentage

point. the move to try to cause the inflation to slow down as americans are paying so much for things like food and gas. the president says that a recession is not inevitable. what is going on here? the markets are indicating that a recession is on the way. >> the honest answer is that no one really knows. i be waking up e-mails from economists and the big banks and everyone has a by take. as far as what happened toes. if you have a decision you try to sleep on it before you make a decision. last night, wall street slept on it and the prospect of higher interest rates and higher costs for things like homes and cars that we all need, they freaked people out and that is why the market saw a dip today. >> i was like, whoa! it closed down today. the president also told the

aassociated press that the claims for the stimulus plan for the inflation and some say that is bizarre. what is the truth here? >> this is something that the economists will study for a long time to come. there was no choice but to pump money into the economy. the question is was it too much and too long of a period of time. i think there is a general consensus, that things went a little too far and that is why this is such a big struggle for the federal reserve to try to curveball this. >> it may have not intended for a recession. >> yes. >> the higher interest rates force homes and cars, is that going to hurt more for perspective buyers? >> we're talking homes, cars and credit card debt. it could cool off the market

because the goal of raising interest rates makes it harder to buy things. perhaps home prices could go down and create a little more equity than we have seen in the past, a little more reasonable price tag. and the number of people seeking homes will likely become smaller, so that too will lower prices because there may not be as many demand. >> thank you, mark. we'll be right back. oral treatments can be taken at home and must be taken within 5 days from when symptoms first appear. if you have symptoms of covid-19, even if they're mild don't wait, get tested quickly. if you test positive and are at high risk for severe disease, act fast ask if an oral treatment is right for you. covid-19 moves fast and now you can too.

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authorities bracing for what could be another rise in river levels around yellowstone national park this week. warmer temperatures and rainfall are expected to spark new snow melt. that is what caused the historic flash flooding that washed away homes this week. here is cnn's nick watt. >> reporter: the water plant was built for when the river runs 15 feet or below. this week it hit 16 and a half. is it a record high that forced to close briefly. >> is it surreal to see all the bridges go down around the state. >> reporter: this is one that did not survive, before and after. how abnormal was this rush of water. this time yellow stone was running 800 cubic feet a

second, a record low and now it reached 87,000 peaks wednesday afternoon. >> we started moving the cattle at noon and move pentagon towards the front where it is a higher ground. the last ones had to swim out. it was that deep. all you could see were their heads. >> reporter: further up, the river ran through here broadway avenue and now covered in rocks left behind. the southern part of yellowstone national park may open on month. the north entrance will be months. they show what little is left of the only road in. this flooding was fueled by heavy rain and high temperatures melting snow. tonight similar conditions return. overnight last night was perfect. zooming you into yellowstone. the temperatures were below freezing on top of the snow. so stopping the melting in its tracks. tomorrow the temperatures well

above freezing and more melting and saturday, the possibility of rain. there is a lot more snow on top of those mountains. >> reporter: it shows what this river has already rocked. billings, montana. we'll be right back. r. skip the rinse with finish quantum. its activelift technology provides an unbeatable clean on 24 hour dried-on stains. skip the rinse with finish to save our water.

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cnn hero erin jackson traveled to poland to help refugees coming across the border. after finding dog friendly accommodations for those traveling with their pets, he recently took over the animal shelter and welcomed 17 dogs along with a pair of women who helped them survive the fighting. >> when the dogs were already en route to us, they told us that two refugees had joined the convoy and asked if we could help them. when valerie and her other first got to us, i could tell that they were nervous and scared. i couldn't help but notice that all the dogs really love the two refugees, ladies that had accompanied them. and then i learned these dogs had been in a bomb shelter with valerie, her mother for the last 40 days before coming to us. 40 days with hardly any access to food, hardly any access to water. valerie was so good with dogs, we gave her and her mother a job, which we are excited about.

the dogs helped her get the worst 40 days of her life and she helped get those dogs through the worst 40 days of their life. >> to learn more, go to cnnheroes.com and while there, you can thocan nominate somebod you think should be a cnn hero. thanks for watching, everyone. our coverage continues. a warm welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm max moss foster in london. just ahead -- >> there is almost no idea more unamerican than the notion that any one person would choose the american president and then unbroken historical practice for 230 years that the vice president did not have -- >> the vice president said this may be the most important thing i ever