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tv   New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar  CNN  June 22, 2022 4:00am-5:00am PDT

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gosar, mo brooks and scott perry. some of these folks allegedly asked for preemptive presidential pardons while others have faced trump's wrath for not focusing enough on his election lies. for the hundreds of witnesses and thousand of hours of testimony it's important to remember who has been trying to hide from the truth and what other information they may have about the ex-president's attempted coupe. don't let obstruction blur into the background because accountability is the only way to ensure that this never happens to our country again. and that's your reality check. ♪ ♪ good morning to viewers here in the united states and all around the world, it is wednesday, june 22nd. i'm john berman with brianna
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keilar. broken laws and broken lives, the case being made by the january 6th committee in its latest round of hearings with new revelations about individuals threatened and harassed because of lies. lies the committee suggests that broke the law, including submitting slates of fake electors that simply did not win the vote. lies the committee says about election fraud in which trump allies did not produce evidence, in fact, admitingly according to the testimony without evidence. >> at some point did one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence but they had a lot of theories? >> that was mr. giuliani. >> and what exactly did he say and how did that come up? >> my recollection he said we've got lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence. >> witnesses revealed how the pressure campaign from trump world became dangerous. republican arizona house speaker rusty bowers said people often show up to his house, some
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calling him a corrupt politician and a pedophile. bowers says one man carrying a pistol threatened his neighbor. all this happening while his daughter casey was dying inside. >> we had a daughter who is gravely ill who was upset by what was happening outside. and my wife, that is a valiant person, very, very strong, quiet, very strong woman. so it was disturbing. >> bowers' daughter casey passed away in january of 2021. we will have more on the threats ahead. we also learned that republican-elected officials pushed the fake electors' scheme. the committee unveiled never before seen text messages that
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the chief of staff to republican senator ron johnson sent to an aide to former vice president mike pence. >> a staffer for wisconsin senator ron johnson texted a staffer for vice president pence just minutes before the beginning of the joint session. this staffer stated that senator johnson wished to hand deliver to the vice president the fake electors' votes from michigan and wisconsin. the vice president's aide unambiguously instructed them not to deliver the fake votes to the vice president. >> i had no knowledge of this. >> who is the person that delivered -- >> i had no involvement in a slate of electors. i had no idea this was going to be delivered to us, it was delivered staff to staff. >> let's bring in cnn's evan perez. color this former correspondent correspondent skeptical that a chief of staff to a senator would do this without his boss telling him to. >> i think nobody is buying that because we know what ron johnson -- you know, he is a big supporter of the former president and he certainly
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believed that he deserved to try to find a way to remain in office. so one of the things that's happening right now, certainly from watching yesterday's hearing, brianna, you saw what the committee was doing which was going from the top down. they were emphasizing the role that the former president played and other officials at the top of this scheme played in trying to push this down to the states. over the justice department, which we know -- we know prosecutors are watching these hearings very closely, but this is one of the few areas where we've seen a lot of activity that i think, you know, goes to the criticism that members of the committee have been making where they're going above the rioters who went into the building on january 6. you see subpoenas that are going to some of the people who were involved in this alternate electors scheme and these are people who had communications with people in the trump circle. so these subpoenas have asked for communications with rudy
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giuliani, justin clark who was a campaign lawyer, john eastman, among other people who were involved, deeply involved in trying to carry out this scheme on the state level. this is classic justice department strategy, right? you go from the bottom up and it works very, very well in the way they do their work. >> you have some new reporting on president trump's white house counsel pat cipollone, what can you tell us there? >> he is not expected to testify in the hearing that is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. we know the justice department officials including jeffrey rosen, rich donohue, steve engel are all going to be part of this big hearing that emphasizes how trump was trying to use the justice department to support these lies about vote fraud. liz cheney called out pat cipollone because he is not expected to be there and you can hear what she's trying to say here. >> our committee is certain that donald trump does not want mr. cipollone to testify here.
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indeed our evidence shows that mr. cipollone and his office tried to do what was right. we think the american people deserve to hear from mr. cipollone personally. he should appear before this committee and we are working to secure his testimony. >> brianna, the white house is not blocking pat cipollone from testifying, as a matter of fact, he did testify behind closed doors to the committee and he's played a big role in this hearing, whether he's there or not. i mean, we've heard from jared kushner who has called him a whiner for threatening to quit over some of this stuff, we heard from another witness who apparently was in the room when cipollone told some of these characters that what they were trying to do was not legal. so pat cipollone and his words have certainly played a big role in the january 6 committee's hearings we just aren't going to hear from him. what i'm told is that simply he believes that he's given enough cooperation and, look, i think for people like him, you know,
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they think having a white house counsel, one of the closest aides to a president testify in a hearing like this, you know, brings back memories of john dean and the nixon years. of course, you know, that's kind of the point, right, this kind of thing doesn't happen, january 6 doesn't happen very often in this country. the unusual nature of what happened that day is what certainly people like liz cheney believe and people at the white house believe calls for him to show up and provide that testimony. >> great reporting, evan. thank you for sharing it with us. joining us now cnn senior legal analyst, former state and federal prosecutor ellie honing, laura jarrett and daniel goldman, former federal prosecutor, helped lead the first house impeachment inquiry into donald trump and is now running for congress in new york. dan, since you were involved in investigating the former president and had some dealings with white house counsel here, pat cipollone doesn't want to testify or talk more than he
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already has. it's an interesting question about whether a white house counsel can be compelled to testify but the fact of the matter if he doesn't want to he's not sitting down in that chair before the end of this year, is he? >> well, i think that the public hearings are probably going to wrap up in the next couple weeks, so this is his opportunity. he has provided testimony, but i think we need to draw a distinction between someone who is cooperating with the committee and someone who is affirmatively helping the committee. you can cooperate in theory by showing up, but by not giving your full understanding and maybe in pat cipollone's situation drawing on attorney/client privilege or even executive privilege. so we don't know what actually happened behind the scenes. it does seem from what liz cheney is saying that he has some very important information to offer, but he just doesn't want to get in the cross hairs with donald trump is my guess. he does not want to get the
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wrath of trump and tarnish his standing with the former president. >> that information in theory has to do with how much president trump knew about whether his efforts and what he was pushing for was against the law. had he been told it was against the law? was he involved in pushing things directly that were against the law? which is why testimony we heard yesterday about the rnc chairman ronna mcdaniel in president trump's direct involvement with calling her on the fake elector scheme might be interesting. let's listen to that. >> what did the president say when he called you? >> essentially he turned the call over to mr. eastman who then proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were ongoing changed the result
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of any of the states. i think more just helping them reach out and assemble them, but my understanding is the campaign did take the lead and we just were helping them in that -- in that role. >> laura, why does it matter that trump placed the call? >> that does not look good but i can it's far from a smoking gun. for the question to be what did trump say and the answer to be he passed the phone, i think that's quite attenuated, actually. this is part of the problem with having this be a congressional investigation instead of a doj investigation is you want to drill down into exactly what the exchange was and maybe doj is doing that. we know that they are interested in the fake electors scheme. the fact that he was on the call i think matters, the fact that he pressured bowers about the fake electors scheme mattered. it wasn't just the rnc that he is directly involving here, there are other people involved and undoubtedly there are more than one or two conversations, this is part of a larger scheme
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and i think you have to see it in that mosaic of context. but all of this just -- it doesn't feel like they've made the direct link quite yet. >> what i think is really interesting and important about the fake electors scheme is is it the perfect symbol of the entire strategic approach we saw from donald trump and his people which is almost this magical thinking if we say it enough times, if we write t if it looks off official, if someone vouches for it we can turn a myth into a fact. now we have seen not just the law, the creation of the lie we've seen the making of the lie, we've seen behind the curtain, we've heard testimony from lifelong republicans who said donald trump's main lawyers, rudy giuliani, john eastman said just say it. there is the clip yesterday from one of the witnesses said john eastman said just put it in court papers -- >> bowers. >> that will create uncertainty. that's all we need. the curtain has been ripped away, it's a man with a
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microphone that says pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. >> bowers was said rudy giuliani said they have theory, but no evidence. >> that's the slogan for this whole effort. they tried to sort of through al cami take the theory and turn it into evidence. congress and the american public are free to reject it. >> isn't it striking how all of this was hanging on all of these individual actors who had to stand up and say this is wrong. no. let me do the right thing here. it just shows you all these different moments in time where we actually might be sitting here in a different situation were it not for all of these players who had to decide to take a stand. >> but john's point is right which is, yes, maybe we now know john eastman and rudy giuliani did not believe this was true, but the question is what did they say to donald trump because donald trump needs to understand that the legal theories that rudy giuliani and john eastman are putting forward are bogus, and this is also why cipollone's
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testimony is important because if another lawyer, the white house counsel, is telling donald trump that what eastman and giuliani are saying is false, that goes a long way towards showing that donald trump understood that there was no legitimate theory here, because donald trump is not a lawyer and he can say, oh, my lawyers told me this, even though we all know it's garbage, he has a punitive defense, a possible defense that he can say that, but that's why i think, a, if eastman cooperation, which is, i think, not unrealistic to think about or, b, cipollone says to trump and testifies that i told donald trump this is all garbage, that goes a long way. >> again, reporting from evan is cipollone is not raising his hand saying pick me to testify right now. it doesn't seem likely that that's happening. >> well, but doj will get him. >> that's a possibility, although a fight, right? if he doesn't want to testify, he will say i don't want to do
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this and he will fight it in court for a long time and it will play out like don mcgahn did who ultimately talked a in some level. this has a real world impact, in dramatic fashion -- i want to play a little bit of the testimony from the georgia election worker who was called out by name by president trump, by rudy giuliani and she talks about the impact it had on her life. >> i've gained about 60 pounds, i just don't do nothing anymore, i don't want to go anywhere, i second guess everything that i do. it's affected my life in a major way. in every way. all because of lies. >> there's been a tendency up to now, natural tendency when we think about the damage done by this whole effort to focus on january 6, the physical damage
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done to the capitol, the injuries inflicted on the brave police officers who defended t but let's also remember there is a real cost to this, there is a cost to our democracy and there is a cost to human beings and the thing that really got me, upset me about that clip is ms. moss is not an elected official, she is not in the media, she hasn't put herself out there and yet rudy giuliani, donald trump and others singled her out. she is a civilian, a public servant and they made her life miserable. let's take a moment to excoriate the enablers, rudy, john eastman, mark meadows, we will hear about jeffrey clark tomorrow, they all knew better and chewed up anyone in their path. >> that's why it's so striking that she can get up there and talk about how she can't even go to the grocery store anymore, how her mom has been harassed, how she started in this world because she knew that black people didn't have the right to vote and she was told that by her grandmother and she was inspired. the whole racist element of this can't be missed by rudy and they were explicit about it and it's just striking that she can get
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up there and testify but pat cipollone can't. >> i would add one thing which is by this point donald trump knows that his words -- how his words are interpreted by his supporters and he knows when he calls out someone and access her of doing something wrong that his supporters will use violence, threats, whatever it is, and this happened with the whistleblower in our investigation, it happened with alexander vinman in our investigation, with marie u van vich. four years in he knows the impact of his words and yet he still did it anyway so that his supporters would threaten these poor witnesses who were just doing their job. >> thank you all so much for being here. we are going to speak to the lawyer for shay moss on what that family now wants from rudy giuliani. plus new cnn reporting on how former president trump is
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reacting to these hearings. and new this morning, president biden calling for a federal gas tax holiday which barack obama once called a gimmick. how will this affect you? the white house will join us live. (music) who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight? who said you can't do dinner? who said only this is good? and this is bad? i'i'm doing it my way. meet plenity. an fda -cleared clininically proven weight management aid for adults with a bmi of 2 25-40 when combined with diet and exercise. plenity is not a drug - it's made from naturally derived building blocks and helps you feel fuller and eat less. it is a prescription only treatment and is not for pregnant women or people allergic to its ingredients. talk to your doctor or visit myplenity.com to learn more. finding the perfect designer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in austin between a dog named klaus and her favorite shade of green. it's actually salem clover. and you can find herrightm
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new cnn reporting this morning on former president donald trump growing more and more irritated as the january 6th panel presents their findings in public hearings. one of the former president's irritations, the lack of republicans on the panel. joining us now gabby orr and melanie zanona, both co-authors on this really interesting piece. he is irritated, huh, mel, which means he's watching, right? >> right. as of right now he's watching
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anyway. one of his biggest gripes right now is that kevin mccarthy the gop leader decided to withdraw all of his picks from the panel after pelosi vetoed two of the five that he initially selected and the reason is because there are no republicans or at least trump supporters in the room pushing back in realtime on these hearings. if they had been in the room they could have cross-examined witnesses, had some insight into what the investigation dugs up, could have disrupted the flow of hearings with procedural motions. as these hearings have played out trump has grown sensitive to how they're playing with voters and viewers and he's lashing out at kevin mccarthy which is problematic if mccarthy wants to be speaker one a day. >> his beef is really with kevin mccarthy. >> it is. he is also frustrated with the fact that republicans in general can't preemptively to respond to what is in these hearings because they don't have any insight into what's going to be revealed each time they hold a public hearing. part of the problem that's adding to that is the revelation that there's 11 hours of raw
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footage that a british documentary filmmaker is expected to turn over to the committee. we don't know what is in that, we don't know what kind of conversations that filmmaker was privy to as he had access to not just the former president but also members of the first family and, you know, top campaign officials and so this is just another example of an instance where donald trump doesn't know how to respond, he is lashing out, not just at mccarthy but, you know, at some of the aides who have appeared in these sworn depositions, video depositions, he's been complaining about vice president mike pence of course, he's been complaining about mark meadows and the text messages that have been turned over to the committee. most of this blame is being placed at the foot of mccarthy but there are others caught in the fire as well. >> these who he is complaining about, gabby. who is he complaining to? >> he is currently at bedminster so he's surrounded by aides and taking meetings and has been talking to folks around him.
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donald trump likes to call up the kitchen cabinet so he's been talking to friends, asking them what they think of the hearings, if they've been watching f they think it's going to have an impact on the midterms. he's surveying the field, figuring out how impactful these are and what the damage is to him. >> so everyone it sounds like he will call up everyone that i can, right? separately he must also be watching these races that he has a vested interest in. what do you think about what we're seeing? in georgia his picks were rejected but he did have a win with katie brit in the alabama senate primary. >> he did. i don't know how much credit we should be giving him for endorsing katie britt because originally he endorsed mo brooks, someone who has been a staunch supporter, he was frustrated with mo brooks, he also said we shouldn't talk about 2020 which also angered trump and he came in at the last minute, unendorsed mo brooks, came in and endorsed katie britt.
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at that point she already looked like she was poised to win. certainly a trump endorsement matters, but it is not a silver bullet as we've seen with mo brooks, when he had that trump endorsement he was still struggling. >> thank you for all of your reporting. we appreciate it. next, we will be joined by a white house official on president biden's push for a three-month federal gas tax holiday. and the senate advances the bipartisan gun safety bill. senator chris coons has been working in these negotiations, he will join us live. plus, huge devastation, death in afghanistan. an earthquake claims nearly 1,000 lives. we are watching this very closely. new developments ahead. make dek for your life. so we offer a complele exam and x-rays free to new patients without insurance - everyday. plus, patients get 20% off their treatment plan. we're o on your corner and in your corner every step of the way. because your anything is our everything.
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tax on gas through september. that's about 18 cents per gallon. in a statement the president said it was to give americans a little extra breathing room as they deal with the effects of putin's war in ukraine. joining us now is senior advisor for global security at the state department. thank you so much for being with us. gas tax holidays are a concept that have been discussed in the past in different circumstances. barack obama in 2008 and he went on to work in the obama administration had this to say about the notion. >> we are arguing over a gimmick to save you half a tank of gas. over the course of the entire summer, so that everyone in washington can pat themselves on the back and say that they did something. >> so why is this not a gimmick in your mind now? >> well, first of all, good morning. it's good to be here. over -- this is a -- we are in a
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different situation today where over the last several months since putin has amassed troops outside ukraine and ultimately invaded ukraine the cost of a price a gallon that is gone up about $2 which puts us in unprecedented times and the high cost of oil, high price of gasoline. the president has always said that he will do whatever he can to reduce the price for the american families and at the pump. this act today calling on congress to reduce -- to suspend the gas tax, the federal gas tax by 18 cents for heard of three months is what we can do to give some breathing room for the american people as we contend with a time of war where putin is continuing to -- his war in ukraine and the effect are felt in the united states and around the world. so this is an action that the president is taking calling on congress to do that, calling on
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governors to do what they can on top of that to suspend the tax at the state level and in some cases maybe perhaps other measures such as rebates, together with the average cost of taxes at the state level of about 30 cents, that can give the american public about 50 cents off a gallon. in the conditions that we are in today that's not a gimmick, that's a little bit of breathing room for the american people as we get into the summer driving season. >> it could be 18 cents at the federal level, 50 cents if you add it all together if -- if those savings actually guess passed on to the consumer. what guarantee do you have that the oil companies won't pocket the differential? >> well, first, we will call on -- we are calling -- the president is calling and demanding that the industry, the companies and the retailers, pass that on to the consumer at the pump and we've seen the research that when states that
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have already suspended gas tax have done so it largely has been passed on to the american people. so -- and at the pump. so we would scrutinize it and we would call on the industry to do exactly that, to pass it on. look, it's important to note that the president has taken extraordinary steps so far culminating in today's call on congress to suspend the gas tax. he has released a million barrels a day, 180 million bar barrels, has led the world in increasing that amount so there could be a global response all the way to 240 million barrels. think of what the price at the president trump would be in we didn't take those actions. no he is are historic, unprecedented record actions. he has called on the industry to increase oil production and he's called on secretary granholm to convene the industry to hear their ideas of what we can do to bring some refining capacity that's been idled because of the pandemic back on so that we can
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have a more systemic support for reducing the price of gasoline at the pump. >> in terms of what the industry is saying or feeling about the comments that the president and energy secretary granholm have made the chevron ceo wrote an open letter to the president saying, quote, your administration has largely sought to criticize and at time vilify our actions. these action right side not beneficial to meeting the challenges that we face. if they say to you and they do say we don't see demand for greater refining capacity five years from now, why should we invest in increasing our output today? what do you say? >> well, look, we've had a dialogue with the industry and we will continue to have a dialogue with the industry, the president is also going to call it as he sees it, and the industry has had record profits over the last several months of these remarkable elevated prices of at times over $120, $130 a
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barrel. they have made $35 billion in profits combined just over the last several months compared to last year. so we are asking for them to make money, we're all capitalists and we support them making a profit, what we want them to do is to also invest some of that money back in -- and i have to be honest with you, some of the companies are already doing that. they've announced increases in production, increases in capital spending. we want to look at some of the refineries that went offline because of the pandemic when nobody was driving, nobody was flying and they appropriately took some of that capacity offline. some of it's gone and won't come back, but some of it can come back and we want to work with the industry, we've asked them to come and meet with secretary granholm to give their ideas. the president is willing to take extraordinary actions as he has over the last several months to address this situation. but as long as this war is going on with prices and, remember,
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russia is one of the largest producers of oil, of gas, of refined products, of gasoline and diesel, so we want to make sure that we have the tools here in the united states to alleviate the price hikes for the american public and that's what he's going to do. if the industry can come up with ideas of how we can work together to support that effort, we will do that. we're eager to hear their views and their concerns, but mostly to hear their ideas of how they can do -- how they can invest. >> president biden is going to saudi arabia where we do understand he will see crown prince mohammed bin salman which is controversial in and of itself. what specific ask will he make to saudi arabia in terms of increasing output? >> well, first, the opec plus -- opec led by saudi arabia but opec has already taken action a couple of weeks ago where they announced that they will be increasing the supply and
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increasing their exports. this was really the first time that they've been willing to acknowledge the demand crunch on the global economy and have said that july and august will see increased production. so they're going to increase by over 200,000 barrels a day of production in july and august, that decision saudi arabia and opec have already made. the visit is about strategic interests and stability in the middle east and promoting that stability in the middle east and i think that's what the primary reason for the visit is to address concerns that we have regionally broadly and the global economy. we are going to continue to talk to saudi arabia and frankly to all members of opec to encourage them to increase production further beyond what they've announced in july and august and as the -- and their arrangement on their -- on their production increases ends at the end of august we think a new agreement should be reached where additional capacity should be brought on the market.
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>> thank you so much for joining us this morning and talk about this announcement from the white house being made just this morning. >> pleasure. i want to bring in financial journalist jean shatski and also dylan rat btigan. there are so many things an administration can do to lower the price of gas and congress has to pass this and that's not a given, it may even be unlikely. what do you think of the move? >> look, when it comes to the pocketbook of the average american i think this is largely optics, right? the administration needs to show that it's trying to do something but i did some very quick back of the envelope math, the average american uses about 400 gallons of gas a year, this 18 cents is going to save them somewhere between $65 and $70 over the course of a year and we are talking three months here so
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you have to cut that in four. this is not a huge savings if you combine it with the states if they come along and if you combine it with some rebates maybe that starts to help. i think the administration is trying to put on a good face. >> dylan? s>> i feel a little bit -- i fel a little bit of sympathy for whoever has the misfortune of being the president, the lead political party, the treasury secretary at any time when you have a massive inflation crisis. you're in a situation where the medicine, the thing -- think of it as cancer, a terrible metaphor, but inflation is a cancer, it is decaying all the value of anything you do and so the medicine, the chemotherapy is i have to stop demand, i have to reduce the velocity of demand so i raise interest rates, people will spend less money on credit cards, they will buy fewer houses, oil is getting jammed for 1,000 reasons not the
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least of which is the conflict and the response to the conflict which is then to not buy and all the things. the correct answer is to do the chemo, but aggressive chemo, which means you don't -- imagine i don't want to cut gas prices right now because i actually want to reduce demand and i want to slow velocity but at the same time i don't want to make you pay all this money for gas so i would like to give you a little bit of a deal. it's a really miserable situation to try to administrate. >> it's a really important point, they reduce the price the demand goes up. this could be inflationary. >> it's bad. >> which is exactly the kind of thing that we are looking to avoid, but maybe in combination with saudi arabia -- and, you know, the oil companies, they're in between a rock and a hard place, too. they've been looking out to the future, they've been saying, all right, we have to get rid of
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what we're doing in the fossil fuel area, bring on more green energy, and now people are saying, whoa, stop, just get my gas prices down and then you can worry about that. that doesn't quite work for them. >> it's the summer -- i mean, the season couldn't be worse. very quickly what i would really say is i think that the most -- the most aggressive but rational position would be to keep the rates up, although gas prices to stay high and monitor unemployment and total consumer credit card debt. >> it's getting worrisome. >> and then if credit card debt -- what you want is you want inflation to come down before unemployment goes up and before credit card debt explodes. if you are sitting on the dashboard, you're like let's just keep hitting the brakes, hitting the brakes, hopefully inflation will come down before people start losing their jobs and consumer credit card debt explodes, but -- >> but. >> but? >> but it's a dance, right? and it's a dance that people are
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losing faith that the federal reserve has the ability to execute. people are starting to -- if you've been watching the headlines as you know you have, people are piling on jay powell at this point and wondering too late? too far? it's a precarious position and the ability to land this plane softly is completely in doubt. >> i know people are watching this, then, saying, dylan, jean, what you're saying sounds really concerning, you're making me nervous, what do i do? >> you control the things that you can control, especially in an environment like this. so we're talking about gas prices. i can't control that, but i can control going out of my house to run errands five times a day versus bunching them and going out one time a day. i can't control the price of milk, but i can control the fact that, hey, during the pandemic i got really good at menu planning, i got really good at grocery shopping once a week and
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cooking and i can bring my costs down in that way. i know it sounds like, you know, boring, your grandmother said this, but these are the things that we actually can do that work. >> my grandmother never said anything boring, trust me, if you knew her. dylan, you talked about unemployment and i don't want to let that hang because larry summers among other people are saying one of the ways this may end the inflation is if unemployment goes occupy. that is tough to hear. explain why that's so. >> again, so whatever the price of gas is or the price of the mortgage is or the price of groceries are, it's all much more endureable, sustainable, if you have a job. so maybe you save less money, maybe you have a little bit more credit card debt but there's still cash flow, personal cash flow from work. so you're just enduring -- you're reallocating perhaps whatever the dollar a week or whatever -- i will just use a dollar and how that gets spent, but if fewer people have any dollars coming in so they don't have the cash flow to deal,
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that's great for inflation. so here is the crazy thing about inflation and we haven't done this since, you know, late '70s, it's been a long time since cable news or anybody was in this version of this conversation, the best thing for inflation is really high interest rates, really high gas prices and really high unemployment will solve it in a weekend, but -- >> a painful weekend. >> but that's not a human answer. that's a math answer on a spreadsheet, but that's useless for human beings. so the magic trick whether you are the federal reserve or whether you are an adviser like jean is or whether you are involved somewhere in the middle is how do we get this inn plagues to stop which by the way it's not just in america, it's a global -- i mean, you're dealing with -- and so i think jean had the best answer in terms of -- everybody watches this segment and are like thanks for nothing, john berman. >> i get that a lot. >> the reality is that there are
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a lot of things that you can control and that this is an opportunity actually to take control of those things. >> dylan ratigan, jean, thanks so much for being here. we will speak with the lawyer for the two georgia election workers who were targets of the lies from trump world. plus we will be joined by the family of amerie jo garza after their latest plea for change. >> he failed us. do not make the same mistake he made and fail us, too. please, please, we're begging. get this man out of our lives.
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shaye moss and her mother ruby freeman say their lives were just turned upside down after the former president and rudy giuliani targeted them. trump mentioned moss by name, 18 times, on his now infamous phone call to brad raffensperger. he called her, quote, a professional vote scammer and hustler. she says the election lies spawned racist and hateful threats. >> a lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling me that, you know, i'll be in jail with my mother, and saying things like be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you? >> joining us now is attorney mike gottlieb, he represents those two georgia election officials that you saw right there. they told us so much, mike,
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about what their daily lives have been like and how upended it's been. i wonder what yesterday was like for them, testifying and also listening to brad ra raffensper and gabe sterling defend them. >> it was a really powerful moment for them to be able to -- for miss moss and miss freeman to take their voices back and to be able to tell their story and, you know, be willing to do that under oath in front of the american people and in front of cameras. i think it was a very powerful demonstration of what january 6th hearings can accomplish. it is a powerful rebuke to the notion that, you know, that nothing matters. truth is something ascertainable and facts are stubborn things and when you have ordinary heroes like election workers like miss moss and miss freeman that are willing to stand up for the truth and talk before the american people, that can send a very powerful message. >> do they feel like their
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reputations are on the way to being restored? do they feel like that's possible? >> that's the objective. that's the objective of the litigation that they have filed. that's the objective of coming to tell their story under oath and answer the committee's questions, is to demonstrate what i think most reasonable people knew when these lies were first told, is that they were categorically false and i think you saw that demonstrated in the hearings yesterday, sort of piece by piece, every aspect of this conspiracy theory was just dismantled by republican officials who were willing to stand up also under oath and tell the truth. >> i want to listen to a little more of shaye describing what life has been like for her? >> this turned my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls.
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i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name out over the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. >> with your assistance, they sued oan, they have gotten a statement, sort of, i guess, rejecting what oan said about them. they're also suing rudy giuliani. what does she want from rudy giuliani? >> first of all, i think anybody who watches that testimony can't help but be moved by it. miss moss is a hero and is so courageous for being willing to stand up and tell her story. i just -- i'm proud to be associated with somebody that has that character and that courage. the lawsuits are designed to try to sort of achieve accountability and restore the
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reputation of miss moss and miss freeman who were made the objects of this character assassination for political convenience by rudy giuliani and others in his orbit. our colleagues at law for truth have along with us and other lawyers filed a lawsuit in missouri against the gateway pundit, we filed a lawsuit in d.c. against oan and rudy giuliani, the lawsuit against mr. giuliani continues, and the design is for them to have their day in court and to be able to tell their story and achieve accountability and demonstrate with all of the powers of the legal system, the judicial system, that everything that was said about them was a lie, and help restore the reputations. they had their lives completely upended as we heard during the testimony yesterday. miss freeman had to leave her home at the direction of the fbi, miss moss has had to leave her job, she had her entire
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family and life upended, her -- the story is about her grandmother and her son and her family being targeted and threatened and harassed and all of that helped motivate wanting to achieve some kind of accountability for them and the legal system can be effective in doing that. >> it was distressing to hear how distressed they were by what happened to them. mike, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. there is new reporting on ivanka trump expressing two different views on election fraud while in public, versus what she said in closed door depositions. we're getting new information just in on a powerful earthquake in eastern afghanistan, the death toll continues to rise at least 1,000 people killed. (man) [whispering] what's going on? (burke) it's s a farmers policy perk. gt farmers and you could save money by doing nothing.
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good morning to viewers here in the u.s. and around the world. it is wednesday, june 22nd. i'm brianna keel wilar with joh berman. a compelling and disturbing day four of the january 6th committee hearings, and it directly linked former president donald trump to all of it. in the end, trump's allies could not produce any evidence of election fraud. something that they openly admitted. >> at some point, one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence but they had a lot of theorys? >> that was mr. giuliani. >> and what exactly did he say and how did that come up? >> my recollection, he said, we have got lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence. >> the pressure campaign on state officials was relentless, even dangerous, it included ugly threats and intimidation by trump supporters and the former president himself. leaving one georgi

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