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tv   CNN Tonight  CNN  June 23, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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thank you for watching, everyone. but you know what? the night is still young. it's just beginning really because sara snider is here. sara, good evening. >> hey, don. thank you so much. >> i am sara snider, and this is "cnn tonight." tomorrow's january 6th hearings will include, quote, evidence of pardons. according to jamie raskin the panel is sorting through a deluge of new evidence and it's enough to postpone next week's hearings until next month.
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some of that evidence comes from a tip line and some of it from a british made documentary featuring ivanka trump who told a crew in mid-december 2020 that donald trump should continue to fight until every legal remedy is exhausted because, she said, people were questioning the sanctity of our elections. now, that sounds a little bit different from what she said in testimony revealed this month. in april this year ivanka said she believed attorney general bill barr's conclusion that there was no evidence of widespread election fraud. >> how did that affect your perspective of the election when attorney general barr made that statement? >> it affected my perspective. i respect attorney general barr, so i accepted what he was saying. >> barr made his view public on december 1, 2020. a few days before ivanka spoke to the documentary crew.
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we should mention that the documentary by british filmmaker alex holder is now owned by discovery plus, a division of cnn's parent company, warner bros. discovery. footage also includes interviews with then-president donald trump, other members of his family and then-vice president pence. and according to the filmmaker it includes un-paralleled access before and after january 6th. the public witnesses tomorrow will be members of a trump-era justice department including acting attorney general jeffrey rosen. but there's one lawyer who's not interest in testifying publicly, former trump white house counsel pat cipollone. he thinks he's said enough to the committee in private, but republican committee vice chair liz cheney is urging him to change his mind and go public as this year marks the 50th anniversary of the watergate
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scandal. comparisons are being made between his potential impact and that of former nixon white house counsel and watergate star witness john dean who was asked about those comparisons. >> i think we need a pat cipollone moment. i truly do. and in this situation pat cipollone does not represent donald trump either. he represents the office of the president, and i think he really has a duty to come forward to protect democracy. >> and there is still the question of the incredible revelation to many concerning conservative activist ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, whose text messages pushed the stop the steal agenda with a trump allied lawyer. telling cnn she has responded to the committee's voluntary request to speak with her, but there's no agreement yet on whether ms. thomas could testify publicly.
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one trump supporter, however, now says he wants to testify. >> today is the day american patriots start taking down names and kicking ass! >> many folks remember that moment. that's alabama republican congressman mo brooks who spoke at the trump rally ahead of the capitol insurrection. he says he'll talk but only if he can do so publicly and wants to see any documents the committee might ask about ahead of time. the committee already tried and failed to serve him with a subpoena while he was on the campaign trail but says it will redo the subpoena and get it to him quickly. all right, a lot to sift through. i'm joined by a pair of former lawmakers, senator al franken, and congresswoman and a former white house lawyer for the trump administration, jim schultz. thank you all for being here. i know that the person to my right, senator franken, has a lot to say because she has been
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making little responses to what's been going on. so i'm going to start with you. how about that? >> yeah, okay. >> ready? okay, how important could this new video they've been talking about, unprecedented access to donald trump and those around him both before and after january 6th that was shot by a british filmmaker who followed him for six weeks and did a lot of interviews during this time? >> well, i'm sure it's bad, but it's already bad. you know, it's -- jerry mcgwire, rene zelwigger said you had me at hello. trump had me at i need you to find me 11,780 votes. he's guilty. and of course at the hearing they're playing where he's threa
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threatening raffensperger. he was shaking him down. we were talking before about he's vulnerable in fulton county. it's the same crime as the federal elections. i don't understand, and maybe, counselor, you can tell me why about there's any question about whether you can prosecute this guy for a crime. >> it's a darn good question. >> i think his biggest liability if i were donald trump i'd be worried for another reason. one a grand jury panel. number two, they've a solicitation statute. so if you solicit someone to interfere in an election in georgia, that's a crime. >> so it doesn't just have to be you personally. if you ask someone else to do it on your behalf, which also happened, that too is a crime. >> right and there's a hook. all this testimony we see through the january 6th panel
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and continue to see they're going to use that information to hold people in georgia. >> when it comes to the documentary i mean selfishly, i really, really want to hear what this former president of the united states was saying as my friends and my former colleagues were scared for their lives that day. i mean i was literally sitting at my house in cedar rapids texting a chain of congresswomen knowing they were in the building, in the house as i watched these insurrectionists go up the stairs that day. i want to know what he was saying, what he was doing and what he said afterwards. >> and some of that might be revealed in this -- this documentary that no one has seen except for those -- >> are we talking about three plus hours where he knew that -- >> yes. >> -- your former colleagues or my former colleagues were being endangered and he did nothing. >> well, that included vice president pence. what do you think as far as going forward, i mean do they not have enough legally? do they at this point from what
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they have seen and the evidence that's been brought forward, it seems they're going through this as a prosecutor would go through this. did they have enough to already say there was criminal activity and we need to look at this? >> i'll be interested to see what congress says because there's been some reticence by some folks on the committee and democrats on the committee to make a criminal referral in this matter. you have to worry about the political implications of it because if there is a criminal -- if there are criminal charges brought at the federal level they're concerned that, you know, if they were the ones to recommend it, that it's just a political witch hunt, if you will or there'll be an argument there's a political witch hunt. so there's some concern there. but you're seeing some folks like liz cheney very aggressively saying, look, we should make a referral here. >> the question is there enough there -- >> prosecutors have to sift through that information and make a determination whether they can get before a jury and
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get a conviction. the last thing a prosecutor is going to want to do is get before a jury before the president of the united states and lose. so that's a judgment call that that prosecutor in fulton county, georgia, and perhaps merrick garland are going to have to make. >> you alluded to it, they're looking for votes or they're asking to find votes. let's listen to some of what was said, and these are pretty big moments. each of the people you hear from are die hard republicans, secretaries of state speaking to the committee. let's listen in. >> i just thought this is a tragic parity. i do not take this current situation in a light manner, a fearful manner or a vengeful manner. i do not want to be a winner by cheating. i will not play with laws i swore allegiance to. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we
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have because we won the state. >> secretary, was the president here asking you for exactly what he wanted, one more vote than his opponent? >> what i knew is we didn't have any votes to find. we continued to look. we investigated. i can share the numbers with you. there were no votes to find. that was an accurate count that had been certified. and as our general counsel said, there were no shredding of ballots. >> these are two well-known republicans. doesn't this hearing from them saying what they said negate the whole idea this was a witch hunt? i mean -- >> absolutely. even hearing this week trump's upset he doesn't have his people on the committee and there's not a bipartisan committee. it is a bipartisan committee. but the reality is, no, there
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aren't republicans on the committee who believe in the big lie. there's republicans on the committee who are actually defending democracy and following the oath that they took. that's the issue here. it is bipartisan. there are people trying to do the right thing, and unfortunately, there are too many cowards on the other side right now who just won't call out the lies as they happen and call out the conspiracies. and that's, again, what they're talking about when they don't have their people. >> we've got a lot to talk about. i want to do a quick yes or no. yes or no does this negate the whole idea of a witch hunt? >> in his words it's difficult to make the argument of a witch hunt, absolutely. >> yes or no? >> he should be prosecuted. he's tried to overturn -- engaged in a conspiracy to overturn a legitimate democratic election. >> okay, we've got three yeses and that doesn't always happen. so we've got a lot more to talk about. coming up we'll look at fresh subpoenas issued by the
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justice department in the fake electors scheme. will that do anything to satisfy critics who argue merrick garland isn't moving fast enough? back with tonights guests here at the table next.
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thanks for sticking with us. federal agents have delivered new subpoenas targeting people involved in the fake electors scheme in states like georgia. yet even as the doj moves forward the january 6th hearings are delaying their most serious active prosecution. a federal judge has delayed the seditious conspiracy trial of five leaders of the proud boys until december saying in court the delay is due to, quote, the prominence of the proud boys and the committee's publicly televised hearings. we're back with a panel. with a new panelist. and let's bring in former
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federal prosecutor shan wu. thank you, gentlemen, for being here. you heard the doj is issuing the subpoenas, but those who took part in this phony scheme trying to get different electors put in place of others, do you think that donald trump will ever receive a similar subpoena? i'll start with you. >> i don't know he's not going to appear. it's not you'll see a subpoena. there's no question the former president is not going to appear before congress. i can assure you of that. so i don't believe they'll issue a subpoena because i think it will undermine the credibility of the panel i think if they issue a subpoena where they know he's not going to come unless they're looking at perhaps contempt and other things that they could throw out. >> but this is the doj doing
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this. the doj is sending these subpoenas out to various people because of this alleged scheme. should we expect the doj also sends one to him since he seems to be involved in this? >> the only time you're going to see the doj get to the point they're going subpoena the president when they've had enough information they've gathered along the line that the last thing they're going to bring in is the former president. >> is there enough evidence so far you've seen come out in the public sphere for the doj to charge the president? >> oh, absolutely. there's a mountain of intent evidence. i've never seen so much intent evidence. does garland have the will to do it and what's the timing going to look like here? >> you talked about the timing. you talked about the politics behind this. politically speaking what do you say to people who say you know what, you do it now and everyone is going to say on one side of this this is a complete political hack job, they're just keeping him from being able to
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run? >> i'm not the only one to say this but the only thing worse than prosecuting him is not prosecuting him. look, i'm not a lawyer. i played one in a sketch, but to me this is an open and shut case. and he should be prosecuted, and i think he will be because to not do this is very dangerous, to not do it. >> from the committee's perspective what more do you think the committee needs? they have more evidence. they have literally delayed this hearing so they could look through a whole gamut of what they say is new evidence? >> they're going to continue to look through new information. they have time they want to try to get a report out by the fall, so we can expect that. but i think they're going to try to track down as much as they can between now and then and turn that over at some point in
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time. they haven't turned it over yet, but at some point in time turn it over to the justice department for their use. justice department asked for it. i imagine fulton county is going to be asking as well. >> what are some of the reasons why the doj might thought prosecute the president, the former president? >> primarily what's been talked about, which is garland is concerned about them looking like they're partisan. he's worried maybe in the future it'll hurt doj's image, which has already been greatly hurt during the trump administration with barr. that's what he's concerned about right now. i think to the point jim is making about what the committee is looking for, too, a big target for this committee is making a.g. garland comfortable. and they're putting out this information for him. here's the intent, buddy, we got
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you here. and also by putting in front of the american people first -- this is kind of backwards. usually doj goes first. there's also the feeling garland may feel encouraged by that. the people are seeing the evidence first, maybe there's more sentiment, and it'll insulate the justice department a little bit from being accused of being weaponized. >> there are quite a few americans who aren't watching these hearings. how long does this go before there's just a shrug and people move onto the next thing? and how important is it, and i'll ask you this because you've been in the hot seat before. how important is it for the public to get behind this? >> well, i think people are -- a lot of people are watching it, and we're coming up to mid-terms. it's been a very -- everyone believes i think this has been a very effective set of hearings, incredibly effective. and there's an enthusiasm gap in this election, and i think that a lot of democrats are watching this.
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and, you know, lutting said that trump and his followers present a clear and present danger to this country. i think that's absolutely true. >> so a lot of republicans think this is hogwash, correct? i mean are republicans starting to shift, do you think? >> i think you're starting to see republicans shift. we've already seen some polls where republicans are shifting towards other republicans. >> let's bring that up. >> desantis is gaining some steam here and neck and neck with the former president at this point in time with the republicans. and i think that's the thing that starts to show the shift. >> there's the latest poll, the pick for the 2020 gop primary, and you see ron desantis, the governor of florida, actually ahead in polling right now of donald trump. is this a surprise to you? do you think this is a result of these hearings and hearing the
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president over and over again saying what he said? >> i think it's a result of the hearings among republicans. i think it's also a result of getting involved in races in particular states and picking and choosing among republican in some of these primaries. i think it's a function of a lot of things the president has been doing since then and the hearings are part of it. >> all right, we are going to go out of this. thank you so much stick around. we've got a lot more to discuss with you in just a bit later. up next, the embattled uvalde --
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tonight embattled uvalde police chief pete arradondo is on administrative leave as more inconsistencies in the initial police account are coming to light. according to the head of the texas department of public safety officers were equipped to take down the gunman three minutes after he entered the school, but they, of course, did not. surveillance images obtained by the austin american statesman also show responding officers had ballistic shields and rifles within 19 minutes of the shooting. but 77 minutes passed before officers acted to save a classroom full of children. officials originally said they were impeded by the classroom's locked doors. but now those doors may have been unlocked the entire time. the search for answers is why we're speaking to my next guest, texas state senator roland
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gutierrez is suing the department of public safety to release all records related to the shooting. thank you so much for being here, senator. >> thank you. >> can you give us a sense of why exactly you are seeing the department, what you are hoping to achieve? >> well, everything's been caught up in this so-called investigation, and yet the district attorney now says she's not investigating. and so therefore there should be no reason to release this information. we've asked for this information legally since may 31st. the ten days have passed. we've got response from the department of public safety. yesterday we heard there was 91 troopers in the area. at the 16-minute mark those officers started to show up. they went into the hallway and simply left. they weren't taking orders from arradondo or anyone else. i think that to say one group is at fault here is disingenuous. law enforcement as a whole failed including our own department of public safety.
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>> you just brought up something about the district attorney. and i'm sure you've seen that earlier the dps director said it is the uvalde district attorney who doesn't want them to release information until the investigation is complete. is that not what you're hearing? and if it is, is it a satisfactory reason? >> as you said there was an investigation by the attorney's office and she was going to submit information to the grand jury. that was clearly false. along with four other things he said completely false and wrong. >> wait, senator, are you saying you were lied to in this scenario when asked that question? >> not only uzi lied to but i was called a lawyer last week when i told them there was 12 dps officers in that room. dps then turned around and said i was lying. at the end of the day they had to walk all that back because i
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was able to show i was correct. and yesterday i was able to prove yet again there were 12 public safety department employees, troopers in that hallway during the 48 minutes. >> you just mentioned a lot of details, things that have changed, inconsistencies. given how many inconsistencies there have been, how many times the stories have changed coming from the many departments that were there, what does this do to your faith in police reports just in general? because we have all relied on them as factual for many, many, many years. >> that's right. i mean, this community first off is trying to heal. and it doesn't help when you have the largest law enforcement unit with a task force that was placed here by the governor, this operation lone star, 91 of its officers were here. they failed just like everybody else did. it doesn't help when those guys
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are pointing the fingers at the other cops. at the end of the day this community needs to heal. we need the information so that we can move on. and as a legislator i needs the information to make sure this never happens again in another community. we had radios that didn't even function in the school. that is just uncalled-for in this day and age. >> i want to ask you about chief arradondo who's on administrative leave now. he spoke before a closed hearing yesterday. have you learned anything about what he said, the account he may have given? >> well, you know, those hearings were undertaken in the house of representatives in austin, and i'm in the texas senate. our hearings were open to the public. we heard from mccraw yesterday and arradondo, i don't know if he was invited or not. we'd have to ask the lieutenant governor. at the end of the day, you know, my concern in all of this is a lack of transparency. we -- if you don't have transparency, you start to lose elements of our democracy. there is no reason why the public should not be getting this information either from the
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local police here or department of public safety in austin. there's no reason for it. we have to continue to demand change, and that's why i failed my lawsuit. >> do you think you're going to get it? >> well, now it's going to be in the hands of a court. and we'll hear from a court in travis county in austin. my hope is over the next ten days the court will find no reason why they cannot release this information. >> i know the families some of them are desperate to learn more answers. state senator, roland gutierrez, thank you so much for coming on the show and explaining how you're trying to get them some answers at this moment. >> thank you so much. coming up, we'll look at the bipartisan gun deal now looking very much like a done deal in the senate. so why on a rare point of compromise are house gop leaders fighting to block the beal? and why does a republican backer feel the need to sell the plan to the nra? that's next.
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the senate appears to be on track to pass a bipartisan gun deal by the end of this week even as house gop leaders are lining up against it. al franken and abbey finkenhower are back with me and i want to welcome alice stewart into this conversation. thank you all for sticking
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around and joining us. alice, we're going to start with you. you're the new person here but not new to cnn, obviously. what's notable tonight is that we're kind of finally seeing action. everyone has been asking for some kind of action. what do you think about this potential deal, bipartisan deal? >> finally. finally we've taken steps. you have been really fighting for this for years since you were in the senate seeking action. this is a good thing. i hope moving forward as it makes its way to the senate on through the house they'll realize as mcjagger says you don't always get what you want, but you get what you need. this is what we need at this time. democrats didn't get everything they wanted. republicans didn't get everything they wanted. we addressed not just the gun issue but addressed the overall causes, putting emphasis on mental health, on red flag laws, on crisis intervention in the states and looking at other
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factors that play a part in this, closing the boyfriend loophole was super important. and i think another thing that also helped us get through over in the house was the steps they took to satisfy gun owners and the nra, making sure their due process for red flag laws, closing the boyfriend loophole as well as the components of looking at deeper probes for people under the age of 21 who are purchasing guns. that aspect of background checks i think is something that these are things the nra wanted, they got it and so let's hope they don't put a stumbling block moving forward. >> also just to put it in perspective, too, how long this has taken. i was 10 years old when columbine happened, and it was 2 decades later when i was standing on the floor of the u.s. house as a congresswoman taking a vote on the first important piece of gun legislation that was actually brought up for a vote in the house. and that was the background check bill.
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that was hr8, and yet it got stop in the senate. and so for this to be evolving the way it has, i mean it's huge. it's a win, but quite frankly there is so much more that is needed to happen. the fact this does not address assault weapons, this doesn't address high capacity magazines, this should not be happening in the united states of america. i mean, you want to talk about freedoms for folks. i talked to a 16-year-old in iowa who was telling me that she'd go into her school every day not looking, you know, about or thinking about her next geometry test but literally looking for the exits. that's not freedomch that is terror. >> hypervigilance these young kids. i want to ask you about that
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because you brought up an interesting point. let's say this does go through and get passed this week or even next week. but let's say it gets passed next week, is it enough or a possibility further steps are taken? sometimes i will put this for a lack of a better word for your people in congress it's that they say, hey, we did this, we did something, moving on. >> there's going to be more shootings. you know that. this is good. two days after the shooting i was on a podcast i said it's going to be not enough at all, i want something bipartisan. and thank goodness. now, ten years ago after sandy hook i was able to get nothing done. it shocked me. the nra scored the background check, mantion and toomey. and that's why we lost that. the nra i understand is fighting this, and they're going to lose. i think that's a really good sign.
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and this is really -- and some of these provisions will save lives. also mental health in schools is actually -- it's funny republicans like finally get on the board with mental health because, oh, we can do that with guns and we're doing something about guns and we'll do mental health. but i've been fighting mental health in schools. forgetting even guns, it's good for kids and it's good for teachers. teachers shouldn't have to be the mental health counselors in schools. >> well, there are some states also saying teachers can be armed, ohio, for example. i know that's not a subject you think should even be out in the sphere. i do want to ask you about this latest horrific scenario in
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uvalde. you know, we had sandy hook, we had columbine. and we could name -- i could name smaller ones that i went to as a reporter where there were school shootings, ones we don't even talk about. but the impact is huge. when it comes to what's happening in uvalde, and we just heard from the senator, the state senator who's fighting for information. what do you make of what's happening there and how that can impact so many other people and places dealing with this? there is a closing down. i want to show you some of the things that happened. the uvalde officials have changed their stories so many times it's hard to keep it straight. you had an initial explanation the doors were locked in the classroom, they couldn't get in and the chief was looking for keys. turns out the door was likely open to this classroom. there were -- whether there were officers in, whether they were fully armed and had shields, all of this stuff keeps changing. what do you make of what's happened in uvalde, and does that have an impact on a larger
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scale, on congress? >> it's a law enforcement travesty what happened. it's not the response that they engaged in. it's the lack of response. we have to investigate this. we have to find out who was giving the order, why did they do what they did, why was one of the people giving the orders without a radio? why did this not work? these are things that we should already know. we shouldn't be this far-out still be asking the same questions. and what i'm hearing from law enforcement officials across the country is how can you wear a badge? how can you be fully armed with all the protective gear and weapons and stand outside and not move forward and protect all these children. >> and let all these children die. >> and if nothing else when we get the answers this will teach law enforcement how to respond in the future. >> we've got to get out of here. we'll come back to you. you are passionate. i can feel it, but al, abbey, alice, thank you for being here. we turn to a hero on the court, the tennis court. arthur ashe, his legacy of
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before colin kaepernick kneeled and lebron james wore a hoodie, arthur challenged a
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nation. tennis legend arthur ashe spoke out about south african apartheid, before it was popular to do so, risking public backlash. last sunday we celebrated juneteenth. this sunday, a new cnn film on ashe's life. here's a look. >> he had evolved from someone who was analytical to someone who became more and more about direct action. >> did you get to south africa feeling that you could change things just by playing tennis? >> i'm not presumptuous enough to think i can change anything. per se. >> he wanted black south africans to see a free black man. and the possibilities that a free black man could live. >> his impact was huge.
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joining me now is lewis moore, a history professor at grand state valley university. professor, welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> it's great that you can be here this late evening. we just heard arthur ashe talking about wanting to be an inspiration to black south africans. can you give us a sense of what kind of backlash he might have been receiving for speaking out loud and clear against apartheid? >> yeah, so, when he goes to south africa in 1973, the backlash is that he's going and he legitimizes this system of apartheid, right? just by going and letting them use him, because the south africans, they denied him entry for three years. and so, by having him there, they're able to say, look, our problems aren't that big, look, he's here. so, south africans came at him, black americans came at him, they actually wanted him to stay
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away. but ashe truly believed that in that moment, he could break down some barriers. >> you know, we talk a lot about athletes and, you know, what it is that they should or should not do. a lot of people have different opinions, but they are citizens of the world and some of them are american citizens. have things changed much? because we saw what happened to colin kaepernick, he was punished, ultimately, by the league, for doing what he believed in. arthur ashe faced a lot of backlash. have we, you know, progressed? >> yeah, that's a great question, and i would say, look, there's always going to be people there to put them in their place, right? and that's what -- because they're trying to silence them, because they understand how powerful a voice a kaepernick has or an arthur ashe has. you just have to, if you're an athlete, you know, thinking
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about, should i get in, you have to follow that path of arthur ashe and just push through it. you get criticism, but at the end of the day, it's more important that you do your job as a global citizen. >> you know, going back to arthur ashe, although he was a prominent activist for racial injustice abroad, he was very reluctant and very quiet to publicly share his hiv status. why do you think that was? why was it so much harder to speak up about it in, i think it was back in the 1980s. >> yeah, so, he finds out in 1988, he believes he contracted it in 1983 and what he was saying is that he was trying to protect his family. so, at that time, and many people probably don't remember, but if you had aids, it was not only a death warrant but people treated you awful. and he's trying to protect his family. he's got a young daughter at that time. and he believed if he came out, if he ever came out, which he did in 1982, there would be a lot of backlash not just towards him but his daughter. so he's really trying to protect his family. >> how bad of a burden do you think these athletes have had
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and are still having because there's now sort of an expectation in some circles that athletes that have these big platforms use them for causes. >> yeah. it's a heavy burden, but like bill russell said, it's a burden we must all share, right? and because these black athletes have these special platforms because of the way they've been celebrated in america, the representation of democracy and pause of that their words carry meaning. and so i think athletes have to follow the path of someone like a jackie robinson who said, look, i'm not free until the lowest and most underprivileged black person is free. >> had a huge impact as what muhammad ali did as well. be sure to tune in. the all new cnn film "citizen ashe" premieres sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. and thank you so much for sticking with me. i'll be back friday night.
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stay tuned. the news continues here on cnn. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price.
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hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the united states and around the world. i'm lynda kinkade live from the cnn center in atlanta. just ahead on "cnn newsroom" -- >> also have received scores of new information. >> this is the unvarnished footage in what is behind the scenes. >> deadliest quake in more than two decades. >> hundreds of people killed, it is impossible to verify. >> hundreds across the city were killed in missile strikes that


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