tv At This Hour With Kate Bolduan CNN June 23, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PDT
this is the most significant second amendment ruling in more than a decade. in a 6-3 decision, the court struck down new york's law that places restrictions on concealed handguns . that law was enacted more than a century ago. the majority of the court ruling, the constitution protects a person's right to carry a gun outside the home. jessica schneider is live in washington with these breaking details. jessica, what more was in this decision? >> erica, the supreme court here significantly expanding gun rights and expanding the scope of the second amendment for the first time since 2008. so this is a 6-3 decision written by the senior most justice, clarence thomas. what it has done is it has struck down a new york gun law that you restricted who could carry concealed handguns outside the home. it's a law that stood for more than a century. but the court has now said that that law cannot stand and that crucially here the constitution guarantees the right to carry a gun outside the home. that's something the supreme court has not said before.
the court also saying that states will be restricted from the types of roules that can't they can enact with guns. so really this decision not only strikes down the new york law and six other states that have laws that are basically identical to this new york law, but it also puts state laws in jeopardy that are similar to this law which required people to show proper cause when they apply for permits. and it will allow scrutiny for all gun laws, assault weapons, age restrictions, restrictions on magazines. while it strikes down the law, it institutes a new framework for courts to evaluate gun laws all over the country, and the dissenting justices -- this was a 6-3 decision -- so the court's
liberals dissented. what stephen breyer as this burdened states' efforts to curb gun violence because this will call into question gun laws across the country. while this struck down the new york law, there was a concurrence from justices alito, kavanaugh, and chief justice roberts and it said this holding decides nothing about who may lawfully possess a firearm. so they are saying there are some limits to this decision, but really, erica, this decision is wide ranging. it will call into question laws all over the country while most immediately striking down this new york law and laws in six other states just like it that had very specific demands on people when they were applying to actually get a license for a concealed handgun in public. and again, erica, this happening in a state where we saw a mass shooting recently at a buffalo supermarket and have populated,
concentrated areas like new york city where the politicians there are worried about people having concealed handguns and going into these very populous places. >> that's exactly what you hear from officials here. jessica, appreciate it. thank you. also with us, chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. let's start with you. as jessica brought up there, here in new york city we are starting to see some reaction. we're hearing from, first and foremost, the brooklyn d.a. who called this a nightmare for public safety, saying new york's strong gun laws have saved laws for over a century and it opens doors for everyone to jeopardize public safety. this opens up a conversation about policing versus these rights, and we'll hear more of that in the wake of this decision. >> we sure are. and i think it's important to explain justice thomas's reasoning, which is, i think a lot of people understand the
first amendment in the sense that everyone knows that you and i, we don't need a permit from the government to hand out a leaflet in times square that says biden for president or for president. the government is not allowed to regulate speech in this country except in very narrow circumstances. what justice thomas says repeatedly in this opinion is the second amendment is just like the first amendment, the government may not regulate individual possession of weapons for self-defense, just like they can't regulate the speech of private citizens. that's a very different approach to the second amendment and to public safety that the supreme court has held previously, and it's certainly a very different approach than the states that are attempting to deal with gun violence -- are putting forth
now. now, there is this, i think, somewhat bizarre concurring opinion by justice kavanaugh where he says, no, no, no, there still is the possibility for some sort of background check rules, but that does seem inconsistent with what the majority holds, even though justice kavanaugh is part of the majority. but what's clear, what's entirely clear from today's opinion is that it is going to be much more difficult for states and localities to regulate any sort of gun possession, gun background checks than it was previously. >> eric ruben, as we look at the difficulties, should we be preparing for a flurry of lawsuits to challenge existing laws in states that do attempt to regulate that? >> yeah. i think one of the interesting things about this opinion is that not only did the court
strike down new york's requirement for heightened need for self-defense before you can get a permit, but they applied a methodology that's different than the lower courts have been applying, in particular, it said that lower courts have been doing it wrong. history and tradition alone in conjunction with the second amendment should be guiding the courts. and one of the bigger issues that this presents is that over the past 13 years since the district of columbiav. heller case in 2008, courts have been adjudicating all sorts, magazine possession, and they have been adjudicated under a different standard of review. one of the sleeper issues, i think, is it potentially opens the door to a new round of litigation, not just about public carry restrictions, but all firearm restrictions. >> in terms of those restrictions -- >> i just -- it's worth talking about just a little bit what
justice thomas means by "history." there's a very long section in his opinion about what did the framers think about what the right to keep and bear arms meant. and so what justice thomas is really saying is that each court that evaluates gun regulations has to decide what did james madison think about ar15s, what did james madison think about red flag laws? now, justice briar, who dissented, said, look, that is not the way we should read the constitution. but that's -- that's the way justice thomas reads it, and that's the majority opinion. >> but that's so much of where we're at. when we look at the makeup of the court now, this is something that conservatives -- this has been a plan and an agenda for decades, and there is now a
conservative-dominated court. that was the goal of the federalist society, and part of that includes this historical lens which may or may not make sense to some people, but there's more and more of that. >> to be sure. i mean, you know, the conservative approach to interpreting the constitution is generally known as originalism, very much associated with justice scalia who served on the court for many years, which is the idea that the words of the constitution, the only way -- the only legitimate way for the court to analyze the constitution is to analyze the words as they were understood when the constitution was ratified in the late 18th century. so the job for judges now in 2022 is to decide what did the -- what would the framers think about regulation of ar15s.
you know, first of all, it's very difficult to do. second, you know, it's really hard to know what james madison would think about ar15s. but the supreme court has laid down that's the rule now. the constitution has to be interpreted, the second amendment in particular, based on what the framers would have thought about this regulation, at least according to justice thomas. the answer almost always is the framers would have thought that the individual had the right and the state didn't have the right to regulate. but that's what all these cases are going to be about, and the one thing we know for sure is there are going to be a lot more cases challenging all sorts of gun restrictions, not the new ones that were passed in light of the mass shootings, including this new york law which has been on the books for 100 years and is now gone. it's certainly not going to be
the lasre's a gun restriction s down. >> stay with us. we're going to get a quick break in here. much more of our coverage as we continue the breaking news out of this supreme court, this key decision involving a new york state gun law now struck down by the supreme court. stay with us. he sweet onion teriyaki sauce, topped on tender shaved steak. it's a real slam dunk. right, derek? wrong sport, chuck. just hold the sub, man! subway keeps refreshing and rerefreshing and refreshi- lemons, lemons, lemons. the world is so full of lemons. en you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your trave. so you can go and see all those lemons, for less.
our breaking news at this hour a supreme court decision that opens the door to the widest expansion of gun rights in more than a decade. in a 6-3 decision, the justices struck down a new york state gun law that places restrictions on carrying a concealed gun outside the home. right now we are getting reaction from officials both state and local here in new york. i want to bring in cnn's jason
carroll who is following some of that reaction. what are we hearing from those officials, jason? >> the manhattan d.a. really echoed what a lot of people here in the city and the state from the official level are feeling at this point, saying that what this decision does is it basically is going to undermine public safety. also letitia james, the attorney general saying we are currently reviewing the decision from the supreme court. new york's ability to regulate who can carry firearms in public, but we will continue to do everything in our power to protect new yorkers from gun violence and preserve our state's common sense gun laws. new york's governor has been waiting for this decision. new york city's mayor has been saying all along this is something that's been keeping him up late at night. both officials basically saying they have been ready for this. new york's governor speaking about this decision just a few moments ago. >> what was in place since 17 is
88 when the constitution of the united states of america was ratified. and i would like to point out to the supreme court justices that the only weapons at the time were muskets. i'm prepared to go back to muskets. i don't think they envisioned the high-capacity assault weapon magazines intended for battl battlefields. but we'll have to disagree. >> and so, erica, you heard this echoed before, but the concern here is that when you live in a densely populated city like manhattan, that what is eventually going to happen because of this is that minor confrontations are now going to be escalated into violent ones. i mean, when you look at new york city right now, already looking at a 28-year high in terms of gun-related arrests. and so the question then becomes, since both state and local officials have been waiting for this, what possibly
could they do? you talk to some experts here, legal experts, and they say perhaps they can throw up other barriers to make it more difficult to try to get a permit, deeper background checks, perhaps try to make it a little bit more cost prohibitive. but at the end of the day, this is a major blow, not just for new york city, but for other states as well. i mean, other states have these types of -- several other states have these type of proper clauses in their laws, california. new jersey, for example, in the past you had to show, quote, justifiable need in order to carry a concealed weapon. in maryland the quote was you had to show good and a substantial reason. rhode island, another state. hawaii, another. now, all of that sort of out the where i had now that this decision has come down. erica? >> jason carroll with the latest for us on that reaction and potentially what comes next. jason, thank you. also with us, cnn chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin.
what stood out to be in governor hochul's comments is what you and i were talking about before the break. she said in her comments the only weapons at the time, refers referencing the constitution, were muskets. i don't think they envisioned high-capacity magazines designed for battlefields. we're going to hear more of that, but the decision has been made. >> right. you know, as justice robert jackson said in a famous comment about the supreme court, we are not final because we are infallible, we are infallible because we are final. this is what the constitution means today in 2022, and the rest of us just have to deal with it, including the people who are trying to make gun laws exist that will stay on the books. i do think it's important to call some attention to justice kavanaugh's concurring opinion where he's joined by chief justice roberts where he does say that it is permissible under
today's decision to have some kinds of background checks, at least those kinds of background checks that don't leave any discretion to the authorities. he seems to suggest that laws that say felons can't get weapons, those are constitutional. however, the majority opinion, which he also joined in, certainly calls into question a lot of different kinds of regulations, and certainly the approach that justice thomas took and the one he mandates for all future courts suggests that many more restrictions on states on what they can do and not do when it comes to regulating guns. certainly there is nothing that can be done that draws any sort of distinction between a public space and a private space. i mean, you have a constitutional right today to
carry a gun in public just as you had a constitutional right as of 2008 to have one number home. and that's a big difference. you know, it's one thing to allow people to keep guns in their homes where obviously, you know, there are many threats in a home, accidental shootings, children getting ahold of weapons. but now that you have a constitutional right to carry one in public, bar fights, road rage, gang issues, i mean, this is a whole new dimension of opportunities for trouble, but also, i should point out, it is also an opportunity as justice thomas points out for people to engage in self-defense. that's the right he says people have, and that's why the constitution requires that all of us have the right to carry a gun in public.
>> listen, it is setting up a lot in terms of conversations, in terms of those dense public spaces too. that's why we're hearing so much from officials obviously here in places like new york city. we're going to continue to conversation on the other side of this break, including taking a look at how this ruling could impact those laws already on the books. and this bipartisan agreement in the senate on gun safety regulations. stay with us. immune system, energy ...even skin. so healthier can look a lot like...you. cvs. healthier happens together. it's time to get outdoorsy. it's hot! and wayfair has got just what you need. we need a rug. that's the one. yeah. save on all your outdoorsy funiture and decor at wayfair.
. in just a matter of hours, we will hear the fifth public hearing in the investigation into the insurrection. today's hearing expected to focus on how donald trump tried to use the justice department in his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. cnn has learned former acting attorney general rosen will testify. the doj is launching a fresh round of subpoenas in its own separate criminal investigation into the fake elector scheme. we're seeing for the first time a trailer for a new documentary
series that follows trump and his inner circle before and after january 6th. that series will be released by discovery plus, which is also owned by cnn's parent company. the film's director handed over his interviews with the former president and trump's adult children to the panel. >> my father -- >> he's very honest and he is who he is. >> he believes everything that he's doing is right. >> i think i treat people well unless they don't treat me well, in which case we go to war. >> can you talk about january 6th? >> yeah. >> cnn's manu raju is live on capitol hill. what more can we expect to hear at the hearing today? >> that's the public hearing, they are meeting to talk about his interviews as they look at his footage. but publicly we will see a story about the justice department under donald trump in the final days of his administration as he launched a relentless pressure
campaign on the senior officials at the justice department to essentially lean on local officials and use the power of the federal government to try to overturn joe biden's victory, something that he was told time and again simply was illegal and also was told that there was no basis for his claims of widespread fraud. now, today we will hear testimony from three witnesses who were part of those discussions in the trump administration, including jeffrey rosen, the acting attorney general at the time richard donoghue, acting deputy attorney general, and steven engel, another senior official who was part of those discussions late in the trump term. now, we're getting a copy of his opening statement in which he makes clear there were no allegations of fraud that would change the outcome of the election. there was no merit to those allegations. he said that we thus held firm
to the position that the department wouldn't participant in campaigns or political parties' legal challenges for the certification of the electoral college votes. we insisted there must be an orderly and peaceful transfer of power under the constitution. now, when this hearing wraps later this afternoon, at that point the hearing -- the committee will go quiet for some time. there are no hearings next week because they're going to go through all the new information, including the footage from the documentary filmmaker. and then they may come back in mid-july to present any of their new findings here. but today will be the latest in this effort to show what donald trump was trying to do and what he failed to do, which is to overturn the electoral results. >> manu, appreciate it. thank you. one of the members of the panel, republican congressman adam kinzinger spoke with cnn about why it's important for people to watch today's hearing. >> a lot of this information is known, a lot isn't. and we're going to show what happened as the president was doing his best to basically put
the department of justice stamp on his lies and conspiracies to embolden people. i would encourage folks to tune in and see yet another prong of what the former president tried to do to take away no matter who you voted for, to take away your vote. >> joining me now, cnn legal analyst, former federal prosecutor jennifer rogers, and cnn chief national affairs analyst, kasie hunt. as we look at what we're about to hear this afternoon, should we read anything into the fact that it will be adam kinzinger who's leading today? >> i think it's an interesting choice for a couple of reasons. kinzinger is only one of two republicans on the committee, and it's very clear that as the committee thought through what this is going to mean, they are using the republicans who are present to add credibility and weight to what they're doing. hopefully they believe in the eyes of americans who may want
to vote for republicans who perhaps voted for donald trump but who may be open to a new understanding based on what the committee is presenting. so the fact that they chose him for this, i think, underscores the weightiness of what we can expect to hear today. to the point that kinzinger was making, he did say we're going to learn a lot of new information about what was going on at the justice department. the committee has blended together known facts along with some of the new information that they have uncovered, as well as added new voices and information to our understanding of this. so i do think it's pretty significant they've chosen him to do so t. >> the doj has its own investigations into january 6th. yesterday this new subpoena dump to people in several states who were -- who had signed onto this fake elector scheme, most
notab notably georgia republican party, david schaffer. this is entirely separate from what the house committee is doing. should we make anything of that timing, though, that this happened on the day after we heard all of this testimony about those fake electors? >> it's interesting because i really wanted to hear more about that in the hearing. i wanted to hear from all these people who were recruited as electors and how they were recruited, who was pulling the strings, what they knew. but i think the reason we didn't is we know doj is investigating this. they have already announced that for some time now and how it usually works when doj is investigating is they try to put a stop or hold on other folks like depress doing their own investigation they want to develop the evidence themselves. that's how it traditionally works. maybe the reason we didn't hear so much the other day is because doj already was getting into that information, issuing those subpoenas, as you mentioned, so i don't know that they're working off the what the committee is doing. but it's good to see them working hard. >> so the timing is just a
coincidence? >> usually you start with different kinds of subpoenas, sometimes you start with your bank subpoenas, the witness subpoenas tend to come later. i'm inclined to say it's a coincidence because in this piece of the plot, they're not following, they're more in the leading camp. >> you talk about the following and the leading. kasie, there has been more than one request from doj to the committee. they want access to these private witness interviews. there are more than 1,000 they're asking for. and the committee is continuing to put the doj off. it seems like politically it would be a win for the committee to help the doj here. it adds some validity. do we have more information on that? >> it's an interesting question, erica. we know that the committee also has a pile of data that they have amassed throughout the course of this investigation, information on text messages, things from people's phones, et cetera, that would be particularly potentially critical, at least the sources i've talked to pointed to that
as the trove. but of course there are the transcripts of witness interviews and the depositions. my understanding is there is some concern that the department of justice in receipt of this information would then have to turn it over as part of a discovery process. now, i of course am not a lawyer. you're sitting next to one, so it would be interesting to know what her take is on this. but my understanding is they are concerned about the political ramifications of allowing that into the hands of people that they're trying to prosecute at this moment in time because they really are kind of walking this high wire of trying to make sure that their hearings are as impactful with the public as possible because while on the one hand, yes, this is something that's incredibly important to the department of justice and what does merrick garland do, if you look at liz cheney, i remember talking to her in the hallway after she was thrown out of her leadership post and i asked what she was willing to do to keep donald trump from becoming president again, and
she said she'll do anything it takes. that's going to take political convincing as well. it's going to take a continued -- we saw republicans in the last election, many of them voted for republican lawmakers, members of congress, and they didn't vote for donald trump. you saw that in the state of georgia, for example. so i think that's one of the key political goals of the committee. and that may ultimately end up being just as important as the judicial process. >> it's interesting when you see the setup. normally it's probably the doj that's worried about giving information to congress because, you know, there are leaks up there on the hill. but here we are in the reverse. jennifer rogers, kasie hunt, appreciated it. thank you both. cnn special coverage begins on cnn at 1:00 p.m. eastern. be sure to stay with us for that. just ahead here, the uvalde school police chief now on administrative leave as a lawmaker in texas files suit demanding answers over what happened during that horrific mass shooting.
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leave, this after weeks of outrage over the delayed police response and action during the massacre at robb elementary school that resulted in 19 children and two teachers being killed. joining me now is texas state senator roland gutierrez. as we heard yesterday, squarely pointing to peter arredondo for failure to act. now he's been put on administrative leave, do you believe that's the right move? >> well, again, i think that the city needs to handle -- the school district needs to handle all their issues on their own and i'm not going to get in their space. the people accountable to be is the department of public safety. to say that peter arredondo is squarely responsible is more than disingenuous. they have their own responsibility to bear. yet 91 dts officers there within
16 minutes, the first one of those was in the room and was at the direction of nobody, including peter arredondo. so we got a lot of finger pointing here. the people in my communed in uvalde, they want to see that stop. they want law enforcement to take responsibility for their actions and move on to get the clear picture of what happened here. >> in terms of getting that clear picture, the state senate has oversight over dps, yet you're now suing dps specifically for information related to the shooting. what do you believe that dps is holding back? >> well, i don't know, but we got a dog and pony show the other day with everybody's body cams but theirs. they hid their behind an exception. so i sued them. the colonel is willing to tell us where everybody else failed but not his own team members. the fact is there was a texas ranger in the hallway, 12 other
officers in that hallway. they didn't stand down to mr. arredondo's direction as he testified in my cross- cross-examination of him. they had no joint training for these units beforehand. these were all the governor's operation lone star task force, the vast majority of them, including his commanders were there. why didn't they take over as mccraw says they were supposed to do under active shooter protocols? we had significant failures on that day, including not one single radio working in that school building. we have to get these things addressed, and the only way we're going to address them is seeing all the evidence, not what he can select. >> there's a waiting period you filed. for people outside of uvalde, you look at what is happening in the community, your heart breaks for these families, for the community every time there's a changing narrative, a different
story line, different finger pointing. can you explain why has it been so tough to get answers? >> well, it's because law enforcement and those in power in the community don't want to tell us. you know, in the mayor's defense, he was told by the district attorney not to give out any of that information. as of yesterday, he has asked the dps release all of their body cams. if they release theirs, he would release his. but again, i'm of the opinion that his have been taken by dps at this time because they are the ones controlling this investigation. and clearly attempting to control the narrative and and the narrative they don't want to tell us is the failure of operation lone star along these border communities. >> we hope you'll lets know if and when you get that information you're seeking. roland gutierrez, appreciate your time, sir. thank you.
just ahead, another day of chaos at airports. you may be dealing with it in this very moment. passengers fed up over cancellations, flight crews struggling with staffing shortages. the leader of the light attendants union joins us next. d too much for your glasses. ...who? anyone who isn't shohopping at america's best - where two pairs and a free exam start at just $79.95.. book an n exam today. what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-we, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kis wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena® questlove is the poetry of stillness. a thundering drumbeat. discovering the virtues of a wandering mind. conflict and climate change. a new black dream. the hidden melodies of trains. the sacred spell of words. this art was looted. the power of a dinner table. a country on the brink. carving a path through the heart of philadelphia.
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we have the president of the association of flight attendants. we're hearing different elements which are coming together for this chaos. we saw this week over 1300 pilots on a picket line in dallas. they say they're overworked, underpaid. is it the same situation for flight attendants? >> scayre -- sara, it's erika in new york. we lost sara nelson there. this is an important story. we're going to try to fix the technical glitch. ststay with us. we'll be right back. in real time and that's... how you collllect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. zero-commission trades for online u.s. stocks and etfs. and a commitment to get you the best price on every trade, which saved instors over $1.5 billion last year.
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as we take a closer look at this travel chaos at airports around the country, sara nelson, the international president of the association of flight attendants is back with us. sara, let's talk about what you're hearing from your members. we know over 1300 pilots were in a picket line in dallas this week saying they're overworked, underpaid. same issue for flight attendants. >> it's the same issue across the industry. airline workers were supposed to be going into negotiations in 2020 for improvements. after we took all the cuts with the bankruptcies and the mergers following 9/11, so it's been 20 years people have been waiting for improvements. we're going to be fighting for those. the airlines' demand is back. people have had a hard time. it's been hard working through the pandemic.
we need to be able to attract people to the job and we're going to fight for better pay and benefits? . >> we learned united is cutting 12% of the flights out of newark in new jersey. a major hub. that's about 50 flights a day. earlier they said the government needs to step in. the airport doesn't have the capacity for the flights that are scheduled. there are issues with air traffic control staff. how much of that is causing what we're seeing in terms of the issues this summer? >> well, 100 %. the faa needs to enforce the rules. and they have stopped enforcing the rules. they need to do that. because when you have too much capacity and you can't handle the flights on a good day when it's storming, it's going to be even worse. this is the result of not properly funding our government functions, and we can't step up when we do that. we also can't upgrade equipment. the faa needs to enforce the rules and we need lawmakers to make sure we don't have extensions of funding that are inconsistent. we can't increase pay and benefits and attract people to the work and can't upgrade the
equipment to be able to respond to the situations with weather today. >> i have to say i think about it every time i fly. how being a flight attendant is probably one of the most difficult jobs because of that i see among passengers. some kindness, a lot of kindness i saw last week, but not always. it's been rough for two and a half years with everything flight attendants have been dealing with. when we see the kans rations, the schedule changes, flight attendants are often on the receiving end of the anger even if it's not their responsibility. are they getting more of that right now? >> so erika, i had a hard time hearing you. i don't know if you can hear me. but for all the people working on the frontline, i want to assure the public that it's not always the airline's fault, and we're going to put safety first. and when people are taking out their aggressions on flight attendants, what that can do is it can delay your flight. it can divert your flight. it is going to exacerbate the situation. at the very least, it is going to inconvenience everyone.
and it's also going to set a tone that doesn't help us get these flights up in the air, and get everyone safely to their destination. >> sara nelson, sorry, sara, appreciate it. thanks again for joining us today. just a couple notes as you're all working to navigate this chaos at the airport. a couple things to think about packing, a protein bar, a snack, patience, and check your schedules before you leave for the airport. thank you for joining us this hour. i'm erica hill. cnn's coverage of the historic supreme court decision on guns as well as today's upcoming hearing of the january 6th house committee ib nvestigating the insurrection will continue with john king. that starts right now. hello.
welcome to "inside politics." i'm jaung king in washington. thank you for sharing a newsworthy day. it begins with a supreme court shock wave. the conservative majority throwing out a new york gun law and making clear it holds a very expansive view of second amendment rights. plus an important development in the january 6th investigations. officials who refused to help donald trump cheat and insisted he peacefully yield power to joe biden. and a front row view of the trump family in the momentous days. >> treat people well unless they don't treat me well, in which case you go to war. >> can you tell us about january 6th? >> yeah. >> and trump's social media stokes a new and urgent threat. january 6th committee lawmakers are upping their security as the number of violent threats against them multiply. we begin the hour with that major legal decision. a supreme court ruling that
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