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about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. explosive testimony today about what trump and those close to him knew heading into the insurrection. aide to former white house chief of staff publicly testifying trump was told his supporters were armed but said they're not here to hurt me. cnn ryan nobles has more. >> from the moment she was sworn in, cat hssidy hutchinson made
clear she had much to share. >> the first moment i remember feeling scared. and nervous for what could happen. on january 6. >> providing unique insight into a chaotic white house in the days leading up to january 6. and a president who cheered on the rioters. and she says she was told desperately wanted to be with them. >> the president said something to the effect of i'm the f'ing president. take me to the president now. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. angle grabbed his arm. said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards angle. >> hutchinson detailed the insis tans he follow the supporters to the capitol on january 6.
despite being told repeatedly it was dangerous and potentially illegal. >> mr. cipollone something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the capitol. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with ever crime imaginable if we make the movement happen. we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. >> she outlined repeat td examples of an unstable commander in chief who lashed out in anger often after losing the 2020 election. like when he learned attorney general william barr told the associated press there was no widespread voter fraud. >> there was ketchup dripping down the wall. there was a shattered plate on the floor. the valet had articulated the president was extremely angry at the attorney general's ap interview. and had thrown his lunch against the wall.
>> sitting just doors away from the oval office, hutchinson was central to key moments leading up to january 6. meadows himself warned her. >> things might get real real bad on january 6. >> she also made it clear white house officials knew about the vast array of weapons the crowd was carrying. >> i have three men walking down the street carrying ar 15s. >> including trump who said in a tent at the rally site. >> he said i don't efing care they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the macgs away. let my people in they can march the capitol from here. >> we'll going to walk down, and i'll be there with you. we'll walk down to the capitol. >> she was also in contact with republican leaders. like house minority leader kevin mccarthy. who warned her trump shouldn't come to the capitol. >> he said he just said it on stage. figure it out.
don't come up here. >> as the crowd was raging, she testified trump was cheering them on. agreeing with the chants to hang mike pence. >> mark responded something to the effect of you heard him, he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> recounting white house counsel pat cipollone reaction. >> people are going to die. the blood will be on your hands. >> the day after the violence, the white house counsel and advisers urged him to give a speech condemning rioters. >> get a stronger message out there and condemn this. otherwise this will be your legacy. there's talks about about the 25th amendment. you need this as cover. >> he wanted to float the idea of pardons for those who broke into the capitol. something he didn't do. >> according to hutchinson, many others including meadows and giuliani sought pardons from trump. a once loyal republican committed to trump and his mission. hutchinson now says --
>> i remember feeling frustrated. disappointed. and really it felt personal. i was really sad. as an american, i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic. it was un-american. we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie. >> don, tonight the secret service is take issue at least one aspect of the testimony. that's the story about the former president lashing out inside the presidential limo on january 6. they say their agents are willing to testify to the committee under oath about what they experienced on the day. they say it's different than what hutchinson said. they said those agents never told her that story. meanwhile, the committee standing by hutchinson as a witness. they say she is credible and the fact she was willing to testify
under oath demonstrates that level of credibility. sources kelkted to the committee telling me on background tonight that the committee always welcome to hear from anyone who is has information that would help with the investigation. >> all right. thank you very much. appreciate it. joining me now. former nixon white house counsel john dean and former assistant watergate prosecutor. good evening. john, let's start with you. you told me last night that the committee surprised hearing had to deliver a star witness like alex butter field who testified about nixon secret taping system during watergate. or cancel. did cassidy hutchinson meet that very high standard? >> she did meet it. in fact, she did better than butter field. all he could tell us there was a taping system and it would take a long time to get those tapes. so there was no satisfaction. we take decades to get all of
them. the special prosecutor office would get a few of them. enough to run a couple criminal trials. but, she gave instant answers and filled us in. she was a dynamite witness. and an important witness. >> today's hearing shows how much worse the insurrection was than watergate. someone who prosecuted the case, who should be the most worried here about the testimony? >> oh i think donald trump should be the most worried about it. what this did is put knowledge in his head that he knew about the violence ahead of time. he condoned the violence. he knew that people he was telling to go up to the capitol and fight to protect the government, to protect him. were carrying arms and weapons.
ak 31s. he had knowledge of all of this. we knew up to two days before the january 6 insurrection that mike pence told donald trump that he was not going to basically throw the election and throw out the electoral votes or throw the electoral votes back to the states. the only option that donald trump had at that point was stop that count and stop it through violence. that was the plan. we didn't have the proof though that donald trump was behind the plan. knew of the plan and directed that plan. until we got this testimony. >> john, cassidy hutchinson testified about something trump white house counsel said to her the morning of january 6 about trump going to the capitol building. i want to play that. >> and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up
to the capitol. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable. if we make that movement happen. >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. >> so a whole host of people knew about the potential for violence. the weapons, possible criminal charges. parallels to watergate? >> well, the fact they didn't go to -- trump himself didn't go to the capitol didn't mean, he wasn't part of two conspiracies. one, which was to obstruct the congressional proceedings. and the other which was caught most of the people in watergate, which was the conspiracy to
defraud the government. so, there was good advice by counsel. what i can't understand is why counsel isn't coming forward and talking about it. cipollone is a big missing witness. in this proceeding. he and fill bin his deputy, should be up there explaining why they gave the advice. and how did they withdraw from the conspiracy themselves. if they knew -- saw is go on. they have an obligation to testify. >> nick, you have said that cipollone should be subpoenaed. why isn't the committee going there and what about the doj? >> i think they should -- >> that was for nick. go ahead, john. answer that. i'll get nick in. >> i think as nick was saying, they should subpoena him and either going to be in front of a
grand jury very soon, talking about it. and there's really no privilege here that is at issue. rather he should come up and explain to the american people and do his for history for his ten children and stop worrying about how many fees he can collect from republican clients and get down there and save democracy. work on that. much bigger project for his ten kids. >> go ahead, nick. >> yeah, i think the committee should subpoena him. there's no reason why they should just sit back and let him snub his nose at the committee and not go in and provide testimony. i think they should force him in there and i give him a subpoena. and question him as to what happened. go through all of the events that occurred. there's so much that is known about meetings he sat in on, he was present with the respect to what happened at the department of justice. and inserting a new attorney
general. he was present at the day of the insurrection. this is a person who like john could lay out everything that occurred, everything that donald trump did. the advice he gave him and the advice that was refused. he is a critical witness in this matter. >> thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. i want to bring in presidential historian. the former director of the nixon presidential library. tim, i'm interested to hear your perspective on this. it's hard to overstate the shock value of the testimony today. demanding to lead the mob to the capitol himself. unconcerned about violence. throwing plates and flipping tables. talk about the portrait of the president that cassidy hutchinson laid out today. >> cassidy hutchinson today her testimony made this i believe, this investigation the january 6 investigation the most
significant by congress since the senate watergate investigation of 1973. because she put the president in a criminal conspiracy. she made it clear that for the white house the violence on capitol hill on january 6 was premeditated. she made it clear that people around the president were trying to get him to stop the violence. we have wanted now since january 6 to understand those critical hours. when the very small group of capitol police officers were trying to protect those who were protecting our votes. and we were trying to figure out why didn't the white house do anything. why did it take the president so long to speak to us. cassidy hutchinson has now begun the process of laying the ground work for us to understand it. and, as john and nick have both just said, we now need to know
much more and we need to hear from both pat cipollone and mark meadows. what's the portrait of trump? we are hearing things about trump that are even worse than things he tweeted. for a long time, people argued everything we needed to know about trump he was sharing with us. unlike nixon. he was giving us a taste of all elements of his dark side. in fact, he wasn't. he never tweeted to us he threw dishes against the wall. he didn't tweet to us about how he physically tried to force his way to the capitol. on january 6. so actually, his behavior is even worse than we imagined. so there are elements of cassidy hutchinson's story that need to be corroborated. but just in the basis of what she witnessed, we know that the president and those closest to him could have prevented the
tragedy. could have prevented the violence of january 6. that's something we couldn't have said with the same amount of confidence before today. >> you call today's -- it was watergate level. and then listen, cassidy hutchinson told the committee that trump finally said that biden would be inaugurated on january 7. because there was a large concern the 25th amendment could be invoked. how big a deal this was ever considered. >> this would have been the first time that the 25th amendment was seriously considered. let alone -- it wasn't invoked the the fact people around the president were fearful his own cabinet was prepared to turn against him. gives you a sense of the level of chaos in the white house and anxiety about the president's state of mind. it was absolutely clear is that to those closest to him, on
january 6 and january 7, there was a sense that the president was out of control. and that it was important to reassure republicans most importantly his own cabinet that he could continue through january 20. the level of anxiety we heard bits and pieces about it. now we have actual testimony of the extent to which the trump administration was coming apart. on january 6 and 7. and the extent to which the president himself wasn't willing to do what was necessary. he had not changed his mind. to this day it's clear, donald trump doesn't believe that the insurrectionists did anything wrong. cassidy hutchinson made clear, the only person donald trump felt was in error on january 6 was mike pence. >> right on. tim, thank you. i really appreciate it. see you soon. next, more jaw dropping moments from today's january 6
committee hearing. is this a turning point in how the case moves forward? we'll talk about it. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price?
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because he insisted they weren't there to hurt him. joining me now cnn political analyst and coauthor of this will not pass. trump, biden and the battle for america's future. and cnn legal analyst. and cnn political kmem at a timer. good to see all of you. hutchinson testified to hearing discussions about the proud boys and oath keepers. whenever rudy giuliani was around at the time of the planning of january 6 rally. and testified that trump told mark meadows to ask allies who were at the hotel what was going to happen on that day. listen to this. >> do you know if meadows en intended to go to the hotel on the night of the fifth. >> he had a conversation with me and wanted me to work with secret service on a movement from the white house to the hotel. so he could attend the meeting or meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates. in the war room.
>> and what was your view as to whether or not mr. meadows should go to the hotel that night? >> i had made it clear to him that i didn't believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel that night. i wasn't sure everything that was going on there. i knew enough about what mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i didn't think that it was something appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadows. throughout the afternoon he mentioned a few more times going up to the hotel that evening. and eventually dropped the subject. the night of the fifth and said he would dial in instead. >> all right. listening to that, what is the committee trying to do here? >> this was the part of the testimony that really left me
wanting to know more. in particular about the conversations between meadows and giuliani. and particularly in the time frame between about january 2 and january 5. sort of the few days leading up to january 6. because she testified that she had heard people talking about the proud boys and oath keepers. and so the big question that i have had is would these hearings all of them together both this month and ones that might come next month. are the hearings going to establish that the individuals closest to the president himself were part of the coordination of the violence that occurred. which involved the oath keepers and the proud boys who the justice department has already charged with sedition conspiracy. seditious conspiracy. that is still the piece that i think there are more witnesses who more individuals who know what the nature of the
conversations were. why did mark meadows work or think why did he think according to cassidy hutchinson that there was going to be violence on january 6. and that's the piece we're still missing a little bit of the facts. >> another moment from the hearing, hutchinson called a recalled a conversation with giuliani on january 2. >> we were walking to his vehicle that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of are you excited for the sixth? it's going to be a great day. i remember looking at him saying, would you explain what's happening on the 6th? he had responded something to the effect of we're going to the capitol. it's going to be great. the president is going to be there, he's going to look powerful. >> so on the same day, january 2, meadows told hutchinson that
events on the sixth could get out of control and be real bad. it sound like there's no denying trump allies knew something serious was possible on january 6. >> yeah, it's very clear. many people around the president knew that this was all building up. this lie about the election. it was building up to the january 6 and they were going to the capitol. now, whether or not they knew that there was going to be a violent attack, i don't know. what we know and what she has reaffirmed and corroborated is that the president incited and sick the mob on the capitol and violently attack congress to prevent it from fulfilling its constitutional duty to permit the peaceful transfer of power. and the question before us all is this, only the people who were attending the mob the mob who attend the attack. are they the only held account
for what happened that day? or those involved with this conspiracy. are they going to be held to account? and again, it gets back to why are all the people seeking preempive pardon. they did so because they thought they did something wrong. that's what this is about. we need to get the answers that she laid out. there are more questions. her testimony today just really begs for more questions to be asked of those who could provide additional information and trump is thinking everybody is lying about what happened that day, maybe she should raise his right hand and go to the select committee and tell us the truth. >> him and cipollone. so, there's also this account of trump throwing a plate of food at the wall after the attorney general bill barr told trump there was no election fraud. you wrote a lot about what happened in the final days of trump's presidency. what does this tell you about hi mind set as all of this was unfolding? >> look, what this does is
flushes out in more detail than we have ever heard from somebody that close to trump and his senior staff. personally. a president at the time, eyewitness at the time of just how much the president was out of control and just how much he was subjecting the people closest to him in government. including long time loyalists like bill barr. to just increasingly outrageous loyalty tests based on his conception of what happened in the 2020 election. what i think the committee is doing an expert job of is dismantling this theory defense. the president and his might give in a trial that he's sincerely believed all of this. it can't be a fraud. it can't be a conspiracy to overthrow the government if he genuinely didn't realize that what he was doing was wrong and dangerous and based on fraudulent representation about what happened in the 2020
election. just every hearing that pretense falls apart a little bit more. >> i want you to stick around. we'll continue the conversation. she was the aide to the white house chief of staff. what she says went on behind closed doors is stunning. next, the man who wrote the book on white house chiefs of staff. chris whipple is here with me. s. and since pain relievers may affect blood pressure, they can't just take anything for their pain. tylenol® is the #1 dr. recommended pain relief brand for those with high blood pressure. if you have questions on whether tylenol is right for you, talk to your doctor. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining
hutchinson telling the january 6 committee that as violence broke out at capitol there were basically tloo camps inside the white house taking different positions on what action the president should take. including her boss the chief of staff mark meadows. listen. >> there's a group of individuals that were strongly urging him to take immediate and swift action. i would classify the white house counsel office. ivanka trump in that category of really working to get him to take action and pleading with him to take action. there was a more neutral group where advisers were trying to toe the line knowing that mr. trump didn't necessarily want to take immediate action. and condemn the riots. knowing something needed to be done and there was the last
group which was deflect and blame. let's blame anti-fa. these aren't our people. it's my understanding that mr. meadows was in the deflect and blame category. but he did end uptaking a neutral route. knowing there were several advisers in the president's circle urging him to take more action. >> so chris whipple is here the author of the gate keepers. how the white house chief of staff define every presidency. chris, good evening. here's what hutchinson is describing. three camps with totally different explanations of what went down. meadows the deflect and blame side. to neutral. i know you called him the worst chief of staff in history. does this paint the picture he was not in control? >> well, back in january of 2021, i wrote that "washington post" op-ed. anointing him the worst chief
and he owned that title by a country mile. as you know. he was not only did he raise sick fancy to an art form. never telling the president hard truths. and helped the president pretend there was no pandemic. costing god knows how many hundreds of thousands of lives in the process. but, the truth is that i didn't know the half of it. i didn't know how bad it was. it turns out as we learned today that meadows was a coconspirator. they know what they were doing. they sent an armed mob to attempt to an insurrection at the capitol. and they didn't care how many lives it cost. that's what we learned today. it's staggering. i think that the defining image of mark meadows. i used to think it would be him at the tent of the ellipse on the morning of january 6 holding trump's coat as he went out to
incite the mob. i now think it will be the chief of staff sitting on the couch in his office scrolling through his cell phone while the mob attacked the capitol. it's almost the definition of the finality of evil. >> this is hutchinson describing how he reacted to the riot. >> 2:00 we were watching the tv and i could see that the rioters were getting closer to the capitol. mark hadn't popped out of his office or said anything about it. i went into his office and saw he was on his couch, on his cell phone, same as the morning he was scrolling and typing. i said, are you watching the tv, chief? the tv was small, you can see it. i didn't know if he was paying attention. he said, yeah.
the rioters are getting close have you talked to the president. he said no, he wants to be alone right now. still looking at his phone. so i start to get frustrated. because -- i felt like i was watching a, not a great comparison. a bad car accident about to happen. you can't stop it. but you want to do something. i remember thinking in that moment, mark needs to snap out of this. i don't know how to snap him out of this. he needs to care. >> you can't get that image out of your head. >> it's hard to imagine the level of moral bankruptcy here. and just to say a word about cassidy hutchinson. obviously courageous, credible. as you watch her you couldn't
help wondering how defending the your oath to uphold the constitution or knowing right from wrong could be so easy for a 26-year-old woman in her second job in the white house. and so evidently impossible for a grown up like mark meadows who swore an oath as white house chief of staff to defend the constitution and utterly failed. in the moment of truth. she was heroic. >> yeah. you said it, you wrote about it. the worst in history. and here you have this picture painted today. thank you. good to see yo. >> great to be back. alarming testimony to the committee from a top white house aide showing just how close trumps came to invoking the 25th amendment.
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meadows after the riot that cabinet secretaries were discussing invoking the 25th. he's a staunch trump loyalist. they knew in the moment the president behavior was such that he could not be trusted to carry out his duties even the small amount of time left in his term. >> that's right. it's something that has been reported in the past. including in our book. that a republican congressional leaders were talking about the 25th amendment. mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy studied the option and inquired for intelligence on the night of january 6. about whether it was on the table in the cabinet. we reported that republican senators were talking to white house officials including white house counsel about the possibility that 25th amendment. this is the most important public on the record confirmation so far. that a figure as prominent in the administration as the sitting secretary of state was allegedly contemplating that as an option.
at the time 14 days less than 14 days left on the president's term. people closest to him and involved in the most sensitive operations of the administration did not believe that he could -- didn't have the confidence to be trusted to keep the presidency much longer. >> we learned trump's closest allies including meadows and invan ka wanted him to give his january 7 speech in part to tamp down the threat of buileing ous. >> several lines didn't make it in there. about prosecuting the rioters or calling them violent. he didn't want that in there. he wanted to put in there he wanted to potentially pardon them. with the increase emphasis of his mind set at the time which was he didn't think they did anything wrong. the people who did something wrong that day was mike pence.
by not standing with him. >> let's talk about legally. anything in the drafts or conversations that could expose him? >> just going back from to the context. which was the conversation of the 25th amendment, i never thought the 25th was really the right remedy. to the extent the committee is exploring it through the testimony, it's useful from creating a historical record. i think what hutchinson's testimony shows is it wasn't he was unable to aif he the duties. he didn't want to. what he wanted was for the rioters to storm the capitol. he wanted to remain in office despite the outcome of the national election. so, i think what it shows is that first of all, the cabinet never did invoke the 25th amendment. whether people talked about it, they never actually did it.
and i think her testimony shows exactly what it is that he was trying to achieve leading up and on january 6. >> charlie, even as a country was still reeling from the insurrection, trump wanted it pardon the rioters. what does that say about his state of mind? >> again, he was behaving so recklessly and dangerously. they ought about having him removed from office. what frustrated me when i was in congress during the trump administration that how many times i would speak with people who were close to the president, and would tell me how crazy he was. they say crazy. and they would just say it. i would tell my friends at home. he can't be this bad. it's much worse than you think. that's what we got more of today. and the fact he wanted to pardon people who violently attacked the capitol and assaulting
police officers, this speaks to his disconnection from reality. on what happened at that time and how consequential this is and was and remains. it's almost inexplicable he would think about pardon for people who committed such horrific criminal acts. >> i enjoy this conversation. thank you all. we'll get more time next time. it is election night in america and primary results are coming in. we have the latest. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor?
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it's election night in america. results are coming in from some high profile races. in new york, cnn projects congressman will win the republican governor primary defeating rudy giuliani's son. and republicans in colorado are rejecting 2020 election denier in the race to be their next secretary of state. projecting pam anderson will win the gop nomination beating out tina peters who pleaded not guilty after being indicted earlier this year on ten count of related to voting machine tampering allegations.
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a warm welcome to our virs in viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm max foster this london. just ahead -- >> as an american, i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic, it was unamerican. we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie. >> he is now in legal jeopardy i think of a different order than he was say 24 hours ago. >> history will be very kind to the cassidy hutchinsons,
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