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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  June 29, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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sex with this person who had mo monkeypox but at a party with a lot of people with monkeypox, you should consider getting the vaccine. >> thank you, elizabeth cohen, for that reporting, and thank you so much to all of you for joining us today. i'm poppy harlow in new york. >> and i'm jim sciutto in madrid, we'll be back again tomorrow with more from the nato summit here. "at this hour" with kate bolduan starts right now. hello, everyone. stunning testimony from a former white house aide about donald trump and the level of culpability he and his white house now face. several people charged after a smuggling tragedy leaves dozens of migrants dead. and president biden meets with turkey's president very soon as nato prepares to expand its alliance. this is what we're watching at this hour.
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thank you for being here. i'm kate bolduan. there's growing with damning new details about what trump did before, after, and really didn't do in the capitol hill insurrection. hutchinson saying under oath trump knew the crowd was armed, yet still wanted them to have access to the capitol ground. hutchinson testified that personally insisted on leading the armed mob to the capitol and recounted being told by the president and lunging at a secret service agent after being told he couldn't go there. liz cheney this morning is calling on former white house counsel pat cipollone to testify. hutchinson told the panel that he explicitly warned that if trump and others went to the capitol, quote, we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable. cnn's jessica schneider is starting us live in washington.
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it seems people are still processing everything that came out yesterday. >> they are, and the fact that cassidy hutchinson is just 26 years old, but she did have this up close and unparalleled access to the president and top white house officials in those final months of trump's term. she was the top aide, chief of staff mark meadows and with her office just steps away from the oval office, she witnessed stunning interactions all around january 6th. >> the evening was the first moment that i remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on january 6th. and i had a deeper concern for what was happening with the planning aspects of it. >> cassidy hutchinson chronicling the days and hours leading up to the january 6th attack. the chief of staff mark meadows were calling a meeting between rudy giuliani and mark meadows on january 2nd. >> i remember him saying, rudy,
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would you explain what's happening on the 6th? he had responded to the effect of, we're going to the capitol, going to be great. the president is going to be there. he's going to look powerful. i went back up to our office and i found mr. meadows in his office on the couch, scrolling through his phone. knee against the doorway saying, an interesting conversation with rudy, mark. sounds like we're going to the capitol. he didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, but i don't know. things might get real, real bad on january 6th. >> the white house counsel's office was greatly concerned about president trump's speech and desire to march to the capitol, according to hutchinson. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we
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make that movement happen. >> reporter: as the rioters were storming the capitol, hutchinson testified trump was cheering them on. agreeing with the chants to, quote, hang mike pence. >> responded to the effect of, you heard it, pat. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> reporter: she said cipollone replied. >> people are going to die and blood is going to be on your f-ing hands. >> reporter: trump's desire to leave the crowd to the capitol despite many were armed. >> glock style pistols. >> weapon on his right hip. >> reporter: hutchinson recalled that he insisted metal detectors removed and individuals with weapons be allowed in to fill the crowd and eventually march to the capitol. >> he was very concerned about
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the shot, because the rally base wasn't full. i was in the vicinity of the conversation to say to the effect of, i don't f-ing care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the f-ing bags away. let the people in. they can march to the capitol from here. >> reporter: saying meadows was figuring out a way for trump to go to the capitol after the speech and added trump got into the suv after his speech and was seen in this video presented by the committee driving away. hutchinson recalling a conversation back at the white house with then deputy chief of staff tony ornato about an altercation with trump and secret service agent robert engel when he learned they would not be taking him to the capitol. >> the president said to the effect of, i'm the f-ing president, take me up to the capitol now. bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up toward
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the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel and when mr. ornato motioned to me, referred to his clavicles. >> reporter: denied telling hutchinson that he grabbed the steering wheel or agent. the secret service notified the select committee after hutchinson's testimony that the agents involved are prepared to testify under oath that the incident did not occur. the committee standing behind hutchinson's account while encouraging others with information to come forward. >> look, i believe cassidy hutchinson. i believe she's a smart, very capable, very honest individual. she has no incentive to make up something that isn't true.
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>> reporter: and the committee said evidence emerged of witness tampering. vice chair liz cheney presented several messages from witnesses saying they've been pressured from trump allies to say the right thing. cheney now said the committee is taking all of that very seriously and even indicated they're looking into possible next steps here, kate, that could include a possible criminal referral for witness tampering, so still a lot more to come here and we're expecting the next hearings to probably be starting the weekend of july 11th. >> thank you, appreciate it. joining me for perspective on this, cnn chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. special assistant to president trump and jim, former white house chief of staff under president obama. thank you for being here. jeffrey, this was shocking testimony yesterday. i know you have been talking about it, but how is it landing today in terms of where things go from here? >> i think it just calls for further investigation, especially about the former
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president's connection to the violence at the capitol. i think, to me, the most provocative and important evidence that came out was the president's, based on the hutchinson testimony, is that the president knew that there were armed people in the crowd, and wanted them while armed to march to the capitol. that is the closest connection that we have seen so far between the president and the people who were engaging in violence. it's not conclusive proof of a crime, but it certainly calls for further investigation and i would also add, the fact that white house counsel cipollone was warning everyone that crimes would be committed if they persisted in this kind of protest, you know, that is, again, suggestive of criminal intent if they provided and knew about that warning. >> jim schultz. i want to read you the take from
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one senior house republican who did not back impeachment telling my colleague, melanie zanona, this. this testimony will lead to indictment. this lawmaker said pointing to former white house chief of staff mark meadows and possibly even trump himself. jim, you left the administration long before this in 2017, i believe. how does this testimony land with you? >> so look, i agree with everything jeffrey said. it's incredibly disturbing testimony. the fact that the president said that they're not here to hurt me. well, who are they here to hurt then? that's another fact that folks are going to use when they're continuing into this investigation. there just seems to be facts that people are mounting and mounting and mounting against the former president, quite frankly, disturbing facts and facts that could lead to charges. i think it's preliminary to say who's going to be charged in this matter, but certainly, the folks around him on january 6th including meadows must be
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worried. >> how it's landing with one senior republican, jim schoulz. how do you think it should be landing? >> you've seen some of the polling showing republicans are starting to move away from trump and go to other republicans. i think that's what should be happening at this point in time, and the folks in washington, meaning in congress, should be doing the same. >> jim, you're a democrat but also someone who knows how a white house works. you know just how close those offices are we saw with diagrams and pictures up yesterday during testimony. you know the role of a cassidy hutchinson and what that means in the white house. does it get any closer to this without hearing from the president from president trump or his chief of staff directly? >> no. i mean, this is so far past watergate, kate. we are now to a place where we have a well-placed white house
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official who is there for all of these conversations, who said the inherent truth that the president of the united states knew the protesters were armed, he wanted to go to the capitol to further incite them. he wanted to help them cause a coup in the united states of america and stop the electoral process. that's what he wanted and he was doing whatever he could to get it, and when you're in the white house, you realize how close the officers are and how young staffers like cazssidy hears al of these things and truly a historian and testifier to what happens in those moments and we have not seen testimony like this before, and again, we are so past watergate. we are now to the biggest constitutional christ in american history. >> jim schulz, i want to read to you. liz cheney making clear that the next person she want to hear from is the trump white house counsel pat cipollone. cipollone had significant concerns regarding trump's
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january 6th activities. it's time for cipollone to testify on the record. any concerns he has about the institutional interests of his prior office are outweighed by the need for his testimony. is there anything stopping him from testifying at this point? >> i believe he did give five hours of interviews, and i do think that he should testify. now, that can a be done in a number of different ways. one of the ways to do it, not on video but by transcription, that's something done with other white house counsels in the past. there's precedent for doing that and quite frankly, would be appropriate. >> but jim, if a 25, 26-year-old young aide has the courage to sit before this panel and testify publicly, why shouldn't pat cipollone or anyone else higher or more seasoned in that administration be expected to do
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the same? >> anyone with information relative to this should be coming forward, no doubt about it. there are attorney client privilege concerns there that mr. cipollone is going to, i'm sure through his lawyers, advance. i believe he should come forward and testify. i think it's incumbent on him to come forward and testify in light of what we saw today. there's little difference between doing it by way of transcribed testimony as you would do any other proceeding, but nonetheless, the facts need to becoming out and he needs to come forward and testify. >> mark meadows, big questions about now. jessica schneider laid it out in that piece for us. what do you make of how hutchinson describes her boss not looking up from his phone as violence is breaking out and not engaging when people come to him and look to him for help, not trying to do anything about it, at least coming across in the
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testimony like that? >> the word is complicit, in all of this. he knew before she went to him before january 6th, and said we have a problem here and he said it could be very bad, and on january 6th, we know that he was telling the president, i'm trying to figure out a way to get to the capitol. he didn't do what chief of staff's jobs are, here's the pros, cons, and here's my recommendation and why we're not going to do it. he aided and abetted the president. that's why this is going to fall on him first. we'll see whether it gets to the president but i'd get every lawyer i could in washington. >> guys, stick with me because we have more to discuss. they were ominous last words from the committee yesterday, warning of attempts of witness tampering by allies of donald trump. that's next.
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the january 6th committee said that it has evidence of potential witness tampering by some of donald trump's allies. in yesterday's blockbuster hearing, liz cheney laid out two instances of potential interference including this message received by an unidentified witness before their deposition. >> the person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal, and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. >> jeffrey, jim and jim are back. i'll put up what cheney read from another unidentified witness from trump's administration or campaign, kind of how they said it and in part, what they said about it at the
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very end, at the very end, it said you know you'll continue to stay in his good graces and also reminding that he reads transcripts. what do you think this gets to? what do you think this means? >> it certainly sounds like gangsterish intimidation, but again, you need to know a lot more. who are these people? who said what when? these are just anonymous transcripts so far. a serious investigation would identify those people, would identify the people who allegedly made these comments, speak to them, and see on what basis they said these things and who, what prompted it. it's all very suggestive of witness intimidation but a long way from proof. >> jim schultz, does what cheney described surprise you? >> this is nothing but thuggery and intimidation. you would see in cases involving
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hardened criminals and violent crime and drug cases and the like, it has to be taken seriously, it has to be fully investigated. i gagree with jeffrey but if that's the directive of someone close to trump or trump, there's big problems ahead for them. >> but thompson told reporters after the hearing that they had not talked to the justice department about the potential witness tampering by trump associates or even about meadows. should they at this point? is that? >> i don't think that's necessary. you know, they are watching these hearings. they know what's going on. all of this information is ultimately going to be turned over to the justice department. the fact that a democratic-led committee wants the justice department to investigate or prosecute trump is not going to affect the result, so i don't think this issue of a referral is important at all. if there's something to investigate based on what the
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committee discovers, the justice department is perfectly capable of seeing that on its own. >> great point. jim encina, you spent a lot of time working with the secret service. this back and forth between cassidy hutchinson's testimony about what happened with the top agent on january 6th and the secret service saying that these agents are prepared to testify that the incident did not occur. what do you make of it? >> well, look. as a white house deputy chief of staff of operations, i dealt with secret service every day. there aren't finer public servants than those folks who put their lives on the line every day to protect us and i think it's sad they're getting drug into the president's actions, but they were there and there's precedent here as jeffrey toobin knows. secret service was called during the lewinsky impeachment trial and they'll get to there but i
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think it's a side show, kate. we could argue what happened in the limo or what didn't happen in the limo. what's true, he directed the chief of staff to find a way to get him to the capitol to further incite people and the secret service told him, they're armed and we could argue what happened in that but the truth is that the president was trying to incite a riot and violence at the capitol, and that's what we should stay focused on. >> this gets to something you've been getting to and speaking to as well. no matter how shocking the details are, the fact of the matter is, trump world knew violence was possible and likely did not do more to better protect the capitol ahead of time. trump knew there were people with weapons, didn't do anything about it, knowing they were going to march to the capitol. legally, does this change things? >> again, you need, if you were doing a criminal investigation, you need to talk to a lot more people. the law is very tolerant of people who know about bad things
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that might happen but then don't do anything about it. it's very hard to prosecute someone for inaction. however, if there is evidence of actively encouraging violence, encouraging people with weapons to enter the capitol to commit illegal acts, that's a very different thing and the knife's edge on which this case stands. obviously, the president should have done a lot of different things to tell people to calm down and don't engage in violence. but that's not a crime to fail to tell people to calm down. the crime is if there is encouragement of violence and that's what we don't know for certain yet. >> really quickly. you think a lot of this speaks to the state of mind and you think that is relevant? >> i think it's relevant to a lot of things including the fact that the fraud against the government and interfering with an election. these facts that are coming out are going to be very bad facts for the former president as the
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justice department is potentially looking at interfering with the election or some type of fraud against the united states government. >> good to see you all, thank you for your time. coming up, people are now arrested and have been charged after dozens of migrants were found dead in a semitrailer truck in texas. the very latest from texas is next. phone and a finger. just go to, scroll through thousands of cars. then, tap p to buy. that's it. no sales s speak, no wasted time. go to and pick youour favorite.
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new this morning, two people have been charged after more than 50 migrants were found dead in a tractor trailer in san antonio. we learn more about those people found inside. rosa flores is live in san antonio following the latest in this investigation. rosa, what are you learning? >> you know, kate, officials telling us because of the nature of how these individuals were found, it's going to be slow and difficult to identify them. the latest information we have learned about the sustain is act coming from the u.s. attorney filing the charges in this particular case. she said in a statement, quote, dozens of immigrants were found dead or incapacitated in and
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around a tractor trailer with over a dozen others hospitalized in critical condition. the key new development there is in and around the tractor trailer, so they were not just inside. this is the u.s. attorney who's also filing charges, so far, two individuals have been charged according to charging documents and what these documents show is that federal agents were able to trace the plate of the semi, went to the registered address and arrested and charged two individuals with weapons charges, and those weapons charges and these are mexican nationals, carry up to 10 years in prison. hsi is the lead investigating agency, this is homeland security investigations, kate, and from talking to their head investigator here, they say that this is the worst smuggling event in the united states. kate? >> rosa, thank you very much for that. more on that, democratic congresswoman from texas, sylvia
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garcia. thank you very much for coming in. have you been able to learn anything more? rosa is doing great reporting but from your side, have you learned more about what happened and what connection these arrests have now to the strategy? >> no, i have not, and obviously, you know, i am certainly very deeply saddened by this situation. it's just horrific that any human being would treat another human being like this. it's just horrific and the sooner we can get the investigation top to bottom to give us more detail, the better off we are. i'm certain that two arrests have been made and will probably lead to just who is behind this operation, because obviously, i'm guessing that the owner of the truck was tracked to someone. we still don't know if the victims were smuggled in and put
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on the truck or some border checks. there's still so many unknowns here but i have full confidence that secretary mayorkas and his team from homeland security will get to the bottom of this. >> generally, this is an example of a huge human tragedy. it also speaks to just the migrant crisis, the border crisis that is not getting better as we speak. some of the latest facts are rescues across the u.s. southern border outpaced those of the last fiscal year. since october, there have been more than 14,000 searches and rescues and that is up from almost 13,000 from fiscal year 2021. they're clearly still months to go in this fiscal year. why hasn't the white house gotten a better handle on this? >> well, i think we had a plan for some time and put it into place. we see some change.
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secretary mayorkasmayorkas, fiv plan from trying to put more people down there in terms of staffing, providing that quicker processing than the request. so just remember that for the last two or three years, all this has been with the programs that have been implemented by the previous administration, forcing people to remain in mexico, forcing people, turning people away. so there's been a lot of built-up bottleneck, if you will, that now, i think, we're seeing people, more and more people coming through and it's cyclical. it's the migration patterns that happen every so many years. so i think the administration is working hard at it. zeroed in on human trafficking.
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check every single truck and working my way through law sc school, every box in the warehouse, and the things that might lead us to suspect, it may be a carrier for human beings. it's hard for me to imagine, treating another human being like cattle. at the level this horrific scene was, but i think we could always do more, and certainly, i would call on the governor to do more on his part. he's put together a border plan, spent billions of dollars in office, on the border but obviously, something's gone wrong if the program.
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>> the local sheriff dealing with the massive tragedy in san antonio is putting this partially on president biden and his administration. the sheriff sent a letter to the president and in it, he wrote, i'm angry, mr. president, i'm angry that i could not stop this massive loss of life and despite my best efforts to appeal to your administration, not received a response. i'm slowly watching your support from texas law enforcement be eroded by a perceived lack of action. to be clear, he's also critical of the republican governor of the state and his handling of this too. but he is asking for help from this white house and he is not getting it. >> i don't know, i'm not seeing the letter. i don't know when he wrote the letter but i'm angry too, i'm angry that very indecent evil human beings were put people and treat them like cattle in a
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trailer, but then i'm wanting to make sure people understand this is a huge challenge for us and not just us but all of these triangle countries. what is going on, what can we do to get to the root cause of migration, and obviously leaving horrific situations of war and poverty and human trafficking and crime and violence, seeking asylum, they have a right to do. that is the law. the law says you have a right to seek asylum. they come here. title 42, remain in mexico, and they find other ways to come across. that is where the challenge is. we've got to have a balanced approach and we've got to have comprehensive immigration reform, but we also have to do everything we can to help the countries like guatemala and honduras and mexico in terms of
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their own economic recovery and their own programs for jobs and to attract and keep people in their country. it's not an easy solution, but i joined the sheriff in his frustration. >> if it wasn't complicated, it wouldn't be three decades of the last time any kind of major immigration reform was actually put past by congress and put in place, that's no question but right now, and that this tragedy doesn't happen again and a spotlight on it. thank you for coming in. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. coming up for us, president biden will soon meet with turkey's president, a meeting all the more important after nato formally invites two new nations, and the very latest next. your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [submarine rising out of water] minions are bitin' today. (sung) l liberty. liberty. liberty. minions: the rise of gru, in theaters july 1st.
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moments from now, president biden will meet with turkey's president on the sidelines of the nato summit in spain after a big announcement. nato formally inviting sweden and finland to the alliance and opposed but yesterday dropped their objection. cnn's kaitlan collins is live in madrid following the president's visit.
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a very big day for a meeting like this. >> reporter: a huge day, and the fact that they are able to have this conversation between president biden and turkish president erdogan after turkey dropped objections to having finland and sweden join is a big deal. they were confident they would get here but did not think it was going to happen this soon. they told reporters they didn't expect this issue to be resolved by the time these leaders were here meeting in madrid, but now as afof yesterday, turkey dropp objections and the reason that's significant, one country in the way of having others join nato and obviously, having finland and sweden join is significant after russia invaded ukraine. finland with a large border with russia and sweden controls a lot of access to the baltic sea, so it's very notable of them to be involved in this and really sped up the application process after that russian invasion started, because what is so critical about nato, this military
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alliance is the article that every nation must pledge to come to the defense of another one should it come under attack. obviously, that's been a big point of discussion ever since russia invaded ukraine, so you will see president biden and the turkish president sitting down any moment. we should note that officials told reporters turkey did not ask for anything and the u.s. did not guarantee anything in return for turkey dropping objections to having finland and sweden join. whether or not there's an agreement or they would do something else they wanted to see, but madrid. >> keeping an eye out for the meeting to begin. military analyst, retired general wesley clark, supreme allied commander, of course. a giant step closer to joining the nato alliance. u.s. officials describing to cnn, the most consequential meeting of the type, the
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century. what's your reaction to the moment? >> it's extremely consequential. back in ukraine and a war, largest war in europe in 70 years, that's the first thing. the alliance webs very strongly resolve and continue to support ukraine, bringing in finland and sweden, that strengthens any challenges against the baltic states, with latvia and estonia, and the baltic sea working exercises and so that's a good thing. to get together and say, security is at risk, not only about the military but sanctions, it's about politics, hang together on this and have to somehow deal with the food issue that's arisen coming out of this.
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>> becoming more and more of an issue coppming out of this. russia's goal of dividing nato is backfiring in a concrete way with this kind of announcement. what impact do you think the announcement has on vladimir putin? what about the inflation in our country and the cost of fuel and what are we going to do if this goes into the winter and we can't get russian gas, so he is maintaining hope that he is going to succeed. and that's why it's very important what president macron said, he will not succeed and that's got to be said by members of the alliance, he will not succeed. got to convince putin he's not
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going to win, back out. very rational, very strategic, he still believes he can win. >> president biden is also announced during the visit he's adding quite a bit to the fight, more forces and equipment to eastern europe in light of the russian invasion, including on that list, i'll read it to you, to get your kind of take on it, establishing a permanent headquarters for the fifth army corps in poland, maintaining extra rotational bring grade of 3,000 troops in romania, enhancing rotational deployments to the baltic states, sending two more f35 squadrons to the uk and additional air defense and other capabilities in germany and italy, as it is explained. what does all of that mean? >> a lot stronger nato presence. there's lots more there to react quickly, should there be a certain lurch into the baltics or against poland or romania.
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before we had a very small presence, this is much more robust. it's much more assured to these countries if something were to happen, the alliance would come in with both. >> good to see you, general, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, singer r. kelly set to be sentenced very shortly after being convicted of decades of psychological abuse of young girls and young women. details on what prosecutors are asking for in court right now, next. because the tempur-breeze° transfers heat away from your body... you feel cool, night after ninight. for a limited time, save $500 on all tempur-breeze°™ mattresses.
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r&b singer r. kelly is in onew york courtroom right now waiting to hear the sentencing in his sex trafficking case a. jury found kelly guilty of racketeering and recruiting pl minors for sex. prosecutors are call asking 4 for life and they tell us his own childhood abuse that his attorneys hope will convince the judge to give him a more lenient sentence. they are standing by to hear more about that. also, the supreme court has reinstated a republican-drawn congressional map in louisiana that a federal judge struck down for violating the voting rights act. that judge found the map likely discriminates against black voters. it was vetoed by the governor. but the supreme court is now allowing that to be used in the next election, while they decide
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a similar case out of alabama in the next term. overseas, right now, president biden meeting with the turkish president. let's jump in. >> okay. it's good to see you again and thank you for -- already? >> yes, sir. >> thank you for making the effort to come over. i want to particularly thank you for what you did putting together the situation with regard to finland and sweden and all the incredible work you are doing to try to get the grain out of ukraine and you are doing a great job. i just want to thank you. >> i'd like to talk to you about those things. >> mr. president, hello, i would
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especially mention, it gives me great pleasure to be able to get together with you after a long -- and this nato summit that 23 are attending in terms of its agenda is going to be quite busy and is going to be quite important and tomorrow the activities will be sustained and thanks to our efforts, we believe that we will be able to go back to our countries with our hands full. and with full satisfaction. and as the united states, we think you're pioneering in this regard will be crucial in terms of strengthening nato for the future and it's going to have a very positive contribution to the process between ukraine and
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russia. that russia and ukraine conflict and the negative developments with regards to taking out of the grain from the ukrainian ports as well as the developments involving, involving oil and natural gas require all of us to work together in order to settle the dispute once and for all. i am afraid we won't be able to establish that to cultivate positive results especially with regards to ukraine. there are countries deprived of the grains and we will open corridors and allow them to have access to the grains that they so need. thank you. >>. >> thank you, guys. thank you. thank you. >> i am in walk.
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welcome inside politics. a little chaos at the end of the scene there, reporters ushered out of the room. the president of the united states meeting with the presidents of turkey in madrid. that meeting critical. turkey dropped its objections to finland and sweden, that in part because of direct diplomacy of president biden. that is the big take away. the president meeting with the president of turkey. not much said. the president of the united states thanking the president of turkey for his efforts, so far unsuccessful to arrange safe harbor to get grain shipments out of ukraine. with me in studio to discuss this, including the big meeting, jeremy dimon, and cnn's state department correspondent kylie atwood. so, oh, we have kaitlan collins, i didn't know she was available, on the scene, thank you.
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not much said there, just the fact thatered wasn't erdowan. turkey dropped objections to if finland and sweden as a part of the nato alliance. >> reporter: at first the white house would not confirm this meeting was going to happen. instead, they were waiting to see whether or not biden arrived here and there was going to be this one-on-one and they said they would meet on the side lines. this is a full one-on-one sit down with president biden and president erdogan. it comes one day after they have them join nato, which is quite significant. officials were confident officially they would get here and have turkey allow finland and sweden enjoin. they would not have been able to ultimately join nato. i don't think u.s. officials were expecting to get here this
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quickly. they did not think this issue would be resolved ought this nato summit in madrid, where presumably they would be having it with russia looming over it all. right now they are sitting on it one-on-one. we should note the white house did not ask for anything in return. the white house said they didn't promise anything in return for doing so, either. but the questions of how exactly this came to be remains to be s seen. the fine details. this certainly is one of the biggest take aways of president biden's time line in madrid. now it looks like it will go from 30 members in nato to 32 once the process has started and been completed. >> kaitlan collins, very consequential, thank you. let's bring the conversation back. we can start by pulling the map up of the nato expansion with finland and sweden


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