tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN June 30, 2022 4:00am-5:00am PDT
we were prepared for it and we are now prepared to fight this appeal. >> and the defense had gotten unsealed just days before the sentencing that r. kelly had been sexually abused himself starting when he was 6 years old by family members, nonfamily members, there was even alleged one family member took pictures of him in compromising positions. the judge said that this could be a reason for why this happened. she took into consideration but it was not a reason to have an excuse. brianna, john? >> no excuse for everything we learned in that trial. jean casarez, thank you. "new day" continues right now. hello, i'm brianna keilar alongside john berman on this "new day." former trump white house counsel pat cipollone subpoenaed after new testimony revealed he repeatedly raised legal concerns about january 6th. and president biden set to hold a news conference at the nato
summit in madrid, we will be there live. the supreme court issuing its final opinions of the term today and judge ketanji brown jackson prepares to be sworn in. also, we're learning new details about the horrific discovery of migrants inside that truck in texas. ♪ good morning to viewers here in the u.s. and around the world, it is thursday, june 30th. i'm brianna keilar with john berman this morning. the white house lawyer who by all accounts did everything in his power to keep president trump in check has been subpoenaed by the january 6th committee. the panel clearly believes that pat cipollone is a central figure in their investigation. witnesses say he pushed back on the fake electors scheme and cassidy hutchinson told the committee it was cipollone who warned that if trump went to the capitol, quote, we're going to
be charged with every crime imaginable. cipollone did meet with the panel informally back in april but has been reluctant to do more. now a source is telling our dana bash he might agree to at least a limited transcribed interview. first on cnn a defiant cassidy hutchinson standing by her testimony despite denials by the secret service, the former top aide to chief of staff mark meadows told the panel that trump was so unhinged, to determined to join his armed supporters at the capitol that he tried to grab the wheel of his limo and lujd at an agent's throat. moments ago we did hear from the january 6 committee co-chair liz cheney who did an interview with abc's jonathan karl, her first interview since that dramatic hearing. >> i think that what cassidy hutchinson did was an unbelievable example of bravery and of courage and patriotism in the face of real pressure. >> as you know, there is an
active campaign under way to destroy her credibility. do you have any doubt at all in anything that she said to you? s>> i am absolutely confident i her credibility, i'm confident in her testimony. the committee is not going to stand by and watch her character be assassinated by anonymous sources and by men who are claiming executive privilege. >> let's bring in senior legal analyst ellie honing, chief national affairs analyst kasie hunt and alyssa farah griffin a white house communications director, she worked with meadows and is friends with cassidy hutchinson. all right. first, ellie, to you. what would you be asking if you are on the committee and you are interviewing pat cipollone, what would you be asking him? >> first question that is correct statement you made to cassidy hutchinson about every crime on the books, did you say that to mark meadows?
did you say that to donald trump? because if he did and we don't know but it stands to reason that he did as white house counsel, that goes right to their intent. that means they were told by the most authoritative lawyer in the white house what we are doing right now is illegal in all of these ways and if they proceeded as it appears at the did that is remarkably damning as to intent. >> dana's reporting is that he might agree to a limited transcribed interview, in other words, he's going to carve out some areas where he may not answer because of some privilege. what would that be? where would the carve out area be? >> that would be up to the negotiation but it sounds to me like they are working on a deal where he will testify about the conversations perhaps he had with some people but not donald trump. when mark short testified reportedly they let him avoid talking about his conversations with donald trump. now, i think the natural reaction to that is but that's the most important thing what did you say to donald trump. the problem for the committee is they have to leverage. as a practical matter they are at pat cipollone's mercy because
if cipollone says i'm out, not talking to you the committee does not have the time left to go into the courts, we saw how long that took with don mcgahn, they have six months left at most. they just don't have the time. maybe they're thinking something is better than nothing. >> because the dynamics with pat cipollone are so different than they are with cassidy hutchinson. if he's going to be wanting to claim privilege he's going to do it on did you tell donald trump that. >> right. no. exactly. that's really kind of the only standing that he has. i do think that it's interesting that they finally actually sent the subpoena, the reporting we got was basically he's not going to do it without a subpoena, we've seen that from a number of people close to the former president. in some ways it gives them political cover with the president. i'm not sure that that's what's going on in cipollone's case but i do think it's important. don't forget the public outside pressure here to your point that piece of this is very important because of the limited amount of time that they have. so cassidy hutchinson's testimony put incredible
pressure on pat cipollone, i think that's why you're seeing this movement. >> you heard liz cheney referring to it right there, cassidy hutchinson did this, all this men and she did say men are hiding behind various forms of privilege. alyssa, you are friends with cassidy hutchinson. let me just ask right now, you've talked to her, how is she doing? >> she's doing remarkably well, i think better than i would have been doing in her shoes. i think she's struck by the magnitude of the moment but went into it clear-eyed knowing her life would change overnight but this is incredibly important testimony she had to bring to the committee. cassidy said there's more i want to share with the committee a couple months ago, i put her in touch with congresswoman cheney, she got a new lawyer and that's how this testimony came about. one thing i want to say real quick on pat cipollone i think he's a gold mine even if he can't talk about what he advised the president on. even just confirming that he told the white house chief of staff you will have committed every crime under the books. there is a lot that could come out of that written testimony. >> she came to you and said she
had more even after she had spoken to them once? >> yeah, so what people need to understand is trump world was assigning lawyers to a lot of these staffers who themselves don't have -- >> assigning lawyers? >> covering the cost of lawyers for people who don't have big legal defense funds to themselves. >> they were paying cassidy hutchinson's lawyer? >> it's my understanding, you would have to confirm that, but she had someone who had been in the white house counsel's office, still aligned with trump world. she did her interview, complied with the committee but shared with me there is more i want to share that was not asked in those settings how do we do this? and in that process she got a new attorney of her own, congresswoman cheney had a sense of what questions needed to be asked that weren't previously. so that's how this shocking testimony that people didn't realize before kind of came about and it didn't come up in her earlier interview some of those facts. >> this sheds a lot of interesting new light on a lot of things but especially the --
some of those -- we know at least one of those text messages that liz cheney showed on the screen at the end of the hearing that suggested there was pressure from trump world actually went to cassidy hutchinson. in the event -- >> that was a big question we had is that what she's basically saying here. >> yeah, and if the reality is now that she previously had a trump bought and paid for lawyer, she switches lawyers, suddenly is getting text messages that suggest that, there's a lot there. >> this is ringing a lot of bells from my time as a prosecutor. it's very common -- i used to do mafia cases. >> you are perfect for this. >> exactly, yes. the boss, the family, provides, pays for the attorneys for everyone on the indictment or as many people as they can. >> very quickly here, by the way, there are two sides of this. there are very junior people who can't often afford their lawyers, so you have various committees or political committees that will provide counsel not necessarily something that's nefarious. >> it's not necessarily illegal and sometimes people say, thank you, i need a lawyer, but the practical effect of that is
witnesses, like alyssa was apparently saying with cassidy hutchinson, feel like there's certain things i can't really say in front of this lawyer. the number one flag for us as prosecutors this person may be ready to flip, they change out lawyers and go get a lawyer on their own. >> on a more practical note i think -- and i don't want to speak for cassidy -- there was an element of not even fully understanding the significance of some of the things that she saw. as the committee has gone about their work she's like, wait, this connects to this. i wouldn't be shocked if more witnesses end up coming forward after their testimony because they realize they can fill in more gaps as they've heard this laid out. >> in the deposition you answer what you're asked. >> exactly. >> she wasn't asked some of the questions that she was asked in this hearing. is that part of it? >> that's my understanding, yes. >> okay. sorry. go on. >> while we're going down this road -- >> let's do it. >> okay. so was she aware, did she anticipate the push back that
would take place here and particularly with what she testified she heard from tony ornato? >> i think so. i, again, don't want to speak for her but that was the one piece of her testimony that was based on hearsay. i was told this, not that she witnessed it. i think that has been blown out of proportion because his intent to go to the capitol alone when he knew there were armed people going there to try to stop the election is significant enough. i think the fact that the committee allowed her to use it means that it can mean a number of things. i think for one it puts the pressure on tony ornato to actually testify, i'm not of the mind that he's going to, but he's someone i know to have been dishonest in the past. i think she's kind of wearing the brunt of that right now but i think she's going to be vindicated in the long run. >> under oath, no the under oath, these are two different things. you know tony ornato, you've tweet about him. do you think that he would lie to undermine her testimony? >> i think he would lie not under oath.
he's not going to per your himself, i think he's going to come up with reasons not to testify or comply with the subpoena if he's given -- has that opportunity. >> we should really underscore the sort of bizarre circumstances under which tony ornato was operating in the white house at this time, right? it is extremely rare that a secret service agent -- i mean, he was sort of detailed to the white house, he wasn't officially really with the service at the time, i mean, it's a very complicated arrangement. that is -- i don't want to say unprecedented because i don't have the knowledge to quite say that, but let's just say i've covered at least four administrations now, i've never seen anything like that before. there are also -- you know, there's reporting that he is very much involved with -- you have to remember trump always took his personal security they seriously, he was trailed for many years by keith schiller who i remember -- i knew keith because he was around from the very beginning when trump came down that escalator, he was the one who was there, he was always by trump's side and the sense is that ornato filled those shoes once schiller left. that puts him in this close
physical proximity to trump and there are a lot of questions about what his future is like, if he going to run security for the trump organization. the motives and the pressures on him are pretty extraordinary. >> can i just add to that. with this whole dispute, look, i found cassidy hutchinson to be a very credible witness for a lot of reasons, but it is fair game to try to pick it apart, that's what happens when you take the stand and congress or in a trial, but i am not buying the tony ornato story. let me tell you why, he has a habit of this. cassidy hutchinson said tony ornato told me damaging things, ornato denied t alyssa farah has said the same thing happened to her, she told the story that ornato had told her, ornato, said, no, she's lying. keith kellogg, same thing. either hutchinson and alyssa farah and keith kellogg are lunatics who made up this thing that ornato told him for no reason for no incentive, i know you're not right here, i don't
think you're a lunatic or option b ornato has had habit of talking out of school, saying things that are embarrassing, when they come out saying i never said that. i'm going option b. >> fascinating conversation, you guys. thank you so much for that. and ahead we're just moments away from biden addressing international and domestic issues at the nato summit in madrid, we have a live report next. four people charged after officials discover dozener of migrants dead in a truck in texas. the sheriff's plea to biden. and the search for a shooter is on in new york city after a 20-year-old woman shot and killed while pushing her infant baby in a stroller. (vo) get verizon business unlimited from the network businesses rely on. like manny. event planning with our best plan ever. (manny) yeah, that's what i do. (vo) with 5g ultra wideband in many more cities, you get up to 10 t times the spd at no extra cost. get verizon business unlimititd from the network businesesses ry on.
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island for the very -- from the very beginning of the war. ukrainian officials calling it a remarkable operations to force russian troops to evacuate on speed boats, here are some images we've seen from this operation. you will recall this is the place where early on like in the opening days of the russian invasion ukrainian soldiers refused to surrender, this is one of the stamps they have made telling the russians go eff yourself. russia says its forces left the island as a gesture of good will. >> the ukraine war will come up during president biden's news conference which is scheduled for just about 45 minutes from now. as the president wraps up what has been a successful and highly consequential nato summit meeting. some disagreements, though, let's go live now to cnn's kaitlan collins who is in madrid with the latest. kaitlan? >> reporter: yeah, brianna, it is the final day of this nato leaders summit here in madrid and of course there are a lot of questions for president biden
when he comes out any moment from now to take those questions, but so much of it hassan turd on just how much you've seen nato really transformed into a much more muscular nato ever sips last year of course and the last four months since this russian invasion of ukraine is still under way, still going on. so there are big questions for the president about the momentum here when it comes to support for ukraine because you've heard these officials say that they will support ukraine for as long as it takes. but obviously that comes at a cost when it comes to sending weapons, weapons that president zelenskyy and ukraine says he wants to see arriving faster because he says his forces need them. as he's hoping to bring this war to an end by the end of the year. one other thing of course is the expansion of nato, that has been one of the biggest tangible achievements coming out of this summit now that they have formally invited finland and sweden to join, something president putin did not want to see happen and something that has happened very quickly. you've seen president zelenskyy respond in kind to that yesterday when he was virtually
addressing these leaders basically asking why finland and sweden and not ukraine because so far we have not seen any kind of a clear pathway for ukraine to join nato. those will be big questions in addition to the grain shortage, food shortage that you've seen happening that's been sending prices higher around the globe, whether or not these leaders could actually come to an agreement on trying to solve the blockade that is basically been put into effect for several months now by russia. as they are blocking it from getting out of ukraine. so those will be really big questions facing biden as he does take questions before departing to go back to the white house in washington. >> kaitlan collins, thank you so much. busy day there in madrid. joining us now cnn's senior political commentator and former senior advisor to president obama david axelrod and addie cornish. obviously the president, this is a president who doesn't give a lot of nufs conferences and is giving his first one in a while. what image does he want to present to the world and also here in the united states?
>> well, i think two words, strength and command, that is what he needs to do, john. as you know, this is -- every presidential press conference is important when you don't have them very often they're more important, but this is particularly important because here we are in june before a midterm election, the president's approval rating has slid into the 30s which is disastrous for the party if it is sustained and so he needs to show command and strength in this have press conference because that's what people say in polling and focus groups, that they feel he is lacking. there's so much swirling around not just events in europe, the biggest land war in europe since world war ii, but also obviously here at home inflation, abortion, the january 6th hearings and all of those consequences. so it's going to be a real test for him and i'm sure that they knew that when they circled it on the calendar that this end of
conference press conference was going to be particularly important for this president at this time. >> addie, first of all, this is the first time i have had a chance to talk to you on air or in-person, a long-time fan. great to have this chance to talk to you. >> nice to meet you. >> if you are one of the reporters what are some of the questions that need answers at this point from the president? >> well, reporters obviously are proxies for the public and so far president biden has given a lot of speeches, he's even started doing op-eds, those are all one-way conversations. this is an opportunity to have a two-way conversation. to david's point earlier, the context here is also important. this is essentially a u-turn of sorts in terms of u.s. foreign policy. the approach to nato for the last couple of years particularly under trump, america first, those images you might remember of the former president with his arms crossed and kind of, you know, countries standing around him became like
a symbol of that pull back of the institutional approach that biden is prone to. i think the president feels unsure of footing in this environment where there have been great gains, albeit gains knitted together by russia's aggression and so this is going to be a moment where he can really lean into foreign policy in ways he probably feels strong, but of course all of those pressures from back home that david has just mentioned are certainly going to come to the forefront. >> audi, he's clearly comfortable talking about issues surrounding ukraine but it is a complicated issue, right, if he's asked, for instance, how do you see this ending or what's the end game here for ukraine, he hasn't really weighed in on what he thinks or how he thinks ukraine should be willing to negotiate. >> probably because it's not up to him, right, in so many ways it's up to russia. it's up to zelenskyy and ukraine. i mean, obviously this is a
country that has stood strong, independently for all of these months in a way that many people did not expect. i'm sure and david can talk about this more there's been a lot of conversation about how exactly does nato support ukraine in particular, but you can't sort of divorce that from the context of the fact that all of these countries are now saying, wait a second, nato is significant, nato is important, nato has a good reason for being. it was only a few years ago when people were writing op-eds doing the wither nato. so this has really turned things around. that does not mean that president biden won't have to answer questions about abortion and how his administration could be more aggressive, i know obviously a lot of progressive activists are talking about that, or even about the supreme court, we're going to have the seating of ketanji brown jackson and so i think those things are definitely -- he can't get away from those things even in this moment. >> you know, david, audi brought
up abortion and a lot has happened since the supreme court overturned roe versus wade, a lot of new pressure from democrats and progressives for the president to do something. you know that today he will be faced with those questions. why aren't you doing x? can't you do y or z? >> right. >> how do you think he handles that? >> well, first of all, john, this is the problem that he has right now, he's got -- he's got a fistful of problems that don't have easy solutions and people are looking to him because we invest in the present in this sense of huge authority beyond what is realistic, they're looking at him to say what will you do now? what can you do now? and too often he's left with inadequate answers just because there aren't any any easy answers. there are people who want him to realign the supreme court, there are people who want him to somehow wave a magic wand and
have the senate do away with the filibuster and pass laws to rectify this and there are other more descriptive ideas, all of which have complexities. i'm sure that he's coming in with answers in his pocket that at least suggest forward movement, but unlikely that any of them are going to satisfy the critics. >> what he answers and how he answers -- >> can i jump in here for a second? >> sure. go for it. >> i was just going to say david's comment about the magic wand, remember that candidates run saying i can fix x, right? i mean, they are the ones who tell the public i'm going to fix things, i'm going to change things when i get into office. i think one of the things that progressive activists i'm seeing are talk being in particular is that if democrats want to do something they can, but they have built up a sort of long list of consequences that they fear so much that there is
inaction. but that inaction itself, it's not immuneable, it's not permanent and i think this is a shaky moment for someone like biden who is such a democrat at heart in the way we think about it, a party person, and he very much, i think, believes a lot of these we can't do why, we can't do y and that is the challenge of this moment is having the base say we want to challenge every assumption we have about those consequences. >> yeah. audie, there is no doubt that that is the environment, particularly among progressive democrats, but people across the country who are concerned about this particular issue and other issues, but the reality is you can't -- through shear will whether you are an institutionalist or not you can't turn 48 votes into 50 and a lot of what is required, requires 50 votes and that is the reality of governing in a 50/50 senate and a 50/50 country
that biden is facing. >> david axelrod, audie cornish, great to have you both on this morning. thank you. >> thank you. and we will have special live coverage of the president's news conference at nato, that begins shortly, so stay with us. four people charged in what the department of justice is calling the worst human smuggling incident in the united states. the sheriff will join us live next. and a woman shot and killed at any point blank range in new york city while she was pushing her very young baby in a stroller. like how i customized this scarf? check out this backpack i made for marco. only pay for what you u need. ♪liberty. libertyty. liberty. liberty.♪ [whistling] whenou have technology that's easier to control...
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antonio in what one federal agent called the worst human smuggling incident in u.s. history. we have learned that four people have been arrested and charged in this case. the sheriff is pleading with president biden for assistance, he has written in a letter, i'm angry, mr. president, i'm angry that i could not stop this massive loss of life in my county. i'm angry that despite my best efforts to appeal to your administration i have not received a response. and he also criticized texas governor greg abbott in his letter. joining us now is the sheriff of bexar county, texas, javier salazar. thank you so much for being with us. we're going to talk about your letter in a moment but first we hear that audio. tell us about the scene that your deputies came about and also the effect that this has had on them and this community. >> well, i believe that the audio you are hearing is officers from the san antonio police department and so we were involved on the peripheries of that case that day being that it was the city police and the city fire department handling t but a
heartbreaking scenario but one we've been dealing with for months now. so this latest letter to the president is actually -- was actually my third attempt because it's such a big issue we've been dealing with for such a long time. >> so this to you is just a bigger version of what you're already been dealing with? >> this scenario that played out the other day was one that i've dreaded was going to come for some time now, in fact, on my first letter that i wrote to d.c. it talked about this very scenario, people dying in the back of an 18-wheeler because we had at that time dealt with a case where thankfully we believed that a load made it all the way through, but we dealt with a case where people were literally dying in the back of a tanker truck here in our jurisdiction and so it's an issue we've been dealing with for a while. this didn't just start with two days ago, this is something that's been happening for a while now and we're seeing it every day. >> has the white house responded to you? >> we have gotten communications, thankfully, it
appears that this time around the message did reach at least some of the intended recipients and we're getting some communication that is indicate there's going to be a dialogue very soon and i'm hoping so. >> what is that going to look like? who are you going to be speaking with, do you think? >> well, we don't know who we're going to be speaking to at this point. i'm hoping for somebody, a decision-maker or decision-makers on my side i plan to bring some other texas sheriffs with me that we've already been in communications with some -- some of my fellow sheriffs from an urban county sheriffs group that is the major counties in the state of texas, about the top 12 by population and so on my side we will be bringing a bunch of texas sheriffs, republican and democrat, i might add. >> you have criticism for both sides in this letter. you also say that president biden's inaction is allowing governor abbott to use the issue as a campaign stunt and you say that he has an ineffective farce of an effort that is trickling
down to some of these things that your deputies are seeing. what do you want the president to do? i mean, what could he do that would help you and your deputies on the ground? >> well, what i'd like the president to start with and not that i'm trying to blame him for anything that's going on, but we haven't seen him down here. it's noticeable among texas law enforcement, i'm seeing a loss of confidence in the federal administration, and which has been going on for a couple of years now, but, you know, what i'd like to see is have the president himself or the vice president herself come down, get eyes on t get boots on the ground, get eyes on the situation and realize that it goes beyond just the border and what i have termed a president -- i mean, a campaign stunt, all these assets being poured on to the border and these people are making it past that anyway and ending up here in what i'm calling a hub, a hub location, and so what i'd like
to see is president and or his administration physically come down here and get eyes on the situation and hear what local law enforcement has to say about what we're dealing with on a daily basis. >> look, this is a moment what has happened there that we cannot ignore as a country. i mean, this loss of life is just -- it is tremendous and it is horrific, sheriff, and we appreciate you speaking with us this morning. >> thank you so much for having me. this morning authorities are searching for the gunman who killed a woman pushing a baby in a stroller on manhattan's upper east side last night. cnn's polo sandoval joins us with the latest on this. >> it's been a heartbreaking night last night in new york city. this 20-year-old woman walking through the city's upper east side with an infant in a baby carriage shot point-blank in the head and killed. police say that the child was not physically harmed when the gunman wearing a hoodie walked up behind her and then pulled the trigger. we do know that the woman is
believed to be the mother of the 3 month old at the scene according to several law enforcement officials speaking to my colleagues. the big question about a possible motive. this morning a massive manhunt continues as does the new york city mayor's outrage. >> it doesn't matter if you are on the upper east side or east new york, brooklyn, the oversaturation of guns and dangerous people that repeatedly leave our criminal justice system to continue actions like this, it is what's making the new york city police department and other law enforcement agencies here in new york, across the country and across the country difficult to fight this issue. >> and so important reporting from our colleagues as well speaks more about what happened yesterday. investigators were actually able to determine not only the child's age but also the identity of the woman based on various domestic incident reports on which the name of the victim appears so that could
potentially speak to a possible motive as this investigation continues but also the broader context. this shooting happening hours after governor hochul announced gun safety legislation she is hoping could be signed into law as early as this week as state legislators held to albany today. it would expand open carry restrictions, also strengthen criteria for purchasing a firearm and also gun storage rules but also, and this is big especially in new york city, it identifies so-called sensitive locations which is where even permitted carrying of a firearm would be prohibited, talking government buildings, schools, hospitals, parks and you see that list there goes on. with err still, though, likely to see a loosening of the gun permitting process as new york state officials still have to adhere to the supreme court ruling that was handed down a week ago today, it essentially eliminated the requirement for people to of to prove that they have a special need to arm themselves in order to be able to be issued a license to carry. that's what we've seen for the last seven days, we've seen state legislators and city
officials scrambling to counter that, walking a very delicate line. they have to adhere to that ruling that was handed down by the supreme court but at the same time also have to establish who can carry and where, and i've heard from state legislators, even from new yorkers who admit they may take up the opportunity to stand in line and secure a permit, but time and time again officials have said the illegal carrying and the permitted carrying of firearms in new york city is only likely to contribute to even more violence. >> paulo, thank you very much. keep us posted on this killing also, horrible. >> thanks, guys. so soon the supreme court will issue its final opinions of the term as justice breyer pry pairs to step down and judge ketanji brown jackson is sworn in. plus, what testimony from former trump counsel pat cipollone could look like.
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so former white house aide cassidy hutchinson testified this week that former trump white house counsel pat cipollone was concerned about crimes being committed by white house officials and former president trump on january 6th. the house january 6th committee has now subpoenaed the former white house counsel. joining us now jeffrey toobin cnn chief legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. jeffrey, great to see you. so exactly what holes could cipollone fill in if he chose or chooses to do so? >> one of the things that we have learned in the course of all the hearings so far is just how important cipollone is in so many different areas. i mean, he really turns out to be the linchpin of this investigation in so many ways. basically what seems to be -- what several witnesses have said, whether it comes to the
fake electors scheme or with cassidy hutchinson, the issue of the rally at the capitol, cipollone keeps saying to these people don't do that, it's illegal, you will be violating the law, you will be committing a crime. that warning is incredibly important, especially if it went to donald trump and he went ahead anyway. so that's why he's so important and that's why the committee wants to hear from him. >> we should expect, though, that he's going to claim privilege in certain situations, right? i mean, the most important stuff would be, well, what did you tell president trump? he's not going probably to wade into that, jeffrey, so where are the limitations going to be? >> the limitations are going to be exactly where he wants them to be because the committee has no leverage here. i mean, there could be an extended court fight over this issue but the committee doesn't have anywhere nearly enough time for that. so cipollone is going to make the rules. and it is a somewhat legally
complicated situation. you know, a private attorney has more or less an absolute privilege not to disclose what he says to a client, however, a government attorney, the law is a little more complicated and a little more flexible and the attorney has more flexibility to talk about things, but the law is almost irrelevant here. all that's relevant is what cipollone wants to talk about and what he may do is say, look, i will tell you about advice i gave to everyone except donald trump because that relationship between white house counsel and the president is the closest to a traditional attorney/client privilege. >> to be clear dana bash has reporting and a source tells her that cipollone might very well agree to some limited cooperation for a transcribed interview, we don't know if that means videotaped and transcribed, we don't know if he will agree to sit live in front of the nation yet, but a limited
interview. of what value, jeffrey, then, if he refuses to talk about anything he said to the president, of what value would the other part of the discussion be? >> it could be a lot, actually, berman. i mean, i think, you know, the white house counsel was part of all of these big meetings and some small meetings about the whole post-election situation, and, you know, to the extent he can talk about the kind of advice he was given, i think that's potentially very important. i wouldn't dismiss anything, and frankly, congress -- beggars can't be choosers, they should take what they can get. >> if he doesn't -- look, he's not going to talk about some of the stuff, but if he doesn't undercut the things he can talk about or will talk about that cassidy hutchinson said, then how far does that go to actually bolstering her entire testimony? >> you know, again, you're going to have to see what exactly he says. i mean, you know, more -- if
you're serious about an investigation, more information is always better, and under oath is better than not under oath. so he is agreeing presumably to some sort of written statement under oath and that's valuable. and frankly the committee should have the attitude let the chips fall where they may. if he credits cassidy hutchinson, good. if he discredits her, good, because frankly, you know, if you are trying to find out the truth you just want more information and he's obviously a critical person. he has no history of lying under oath, that certainly i'm aware of. so, you know, he is someone they should -- they should want to talk to. >> jeffrey toobin, thanks so much for coming? >> okay, guys. decisions are expected as early as today as the supreme court weighs the two final and major cases on the docket. the court also prepares to welcome judge ketanji brown jackson this afternoon after justice breyer announced plans to step down today at noon. cnn's jessica schneider joining us with more. so it could kind of all wrap up
today. >> reporter: it definitely will, brianna. we've been waiting for this, the final day of this momentous term. we have two opinions left and those could have far-reaching impacts. first off, the court could rule on the epa's authority to regulate carbon emissions from the epa has broad authority to do it this, but climate activists are bracing for the possibility that the supreme court could severely restrict what the epa can do in the future to combat climate change. and the second case here, it will impact whether the biden administration has to keep a trump-era immigration rule in place. it is known as remain in mexico, it has been in effect since 2019, it basically says nonmexican immigrants can be sent to mexico to await their immigration proceedings rather than waiting here in the u.s. now, biden has tried to end the program, but lower courts have said he can't. so we'll see what the final word from the supreme court is. and, of course, this is justice stephen breyer's last day, he
officially retires at noon. that's when ketanji brown jackson will be sworn in. and, of course, it doesn't really change the balance of power. we're still solidly conservative here, 6-3, but soon to be justice jackson, she is joining a court that is fraught with tension, brianna, after a term that overturned roe v. wade, but a lot of contentious issues still lie ahead. next term they'll hear some big cases on affirmative action, election law, whether businesses can discriminate against same sex couples, so ketanji brown jackson is coming into a court that is already high tension, high emotion, and it doesn't look like that's going to end anytime soon with these big cases ahead in october as well. brianna? >> jessica schneider, thank you so much. president biden will soon hold a news conference at the nato summit in madrid. we're going to have special live coverage on the other side of the break. stay with us.
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good morning to our viewers around the world. it is thursday, june 30th. i'm jim sciutto in madrid alongside my colleague cnn chief international correspondent clarissa ward. this is cnn's live special coverage of the nato summit, here in spain. right now we're waiting for president biden to hold a news conference at any time, wrapping up what has been a highly consequential several days here, expanding nato's membership with finland and sweden invited to join and strengthening its forces in eastern europe. two things that vladimir putin certainly did not want. the president also expected to answer questions on key domestic issues such as abortion rights and the economy, and the state of his presidency. >> he is also certain to address the state of the war in ukraine.
overnight a significant development, ukraine's military hailing a successful operation that drove russian forces from snake island. that had previously been occupied since the beginning of the invasion. that's the same island where ukrainian soldiers infamously refused to surrender, telling the russians go eff yourself. russia claims its troops withdrew as a goodwill gesture to allow kyiv to export its grain. but unsurprisingly, ukrainian officials reject that version of events. let's go first to cnn senior white house correspondent phil mattingly, live in madrid. it has been a while since president biden has given a press conference. what can we expect to be asked? >> reporter: well, i think you can know for sure that a president is going to focus a lot on the last five days. two summits, extraordinarily significant developments, particularly here in madrid as it pertains to the nato alliance and nato alliance that will soon
be expanding, a nato alliance that is surging troops and military equipment into areas after many years of rotating away and that is all because of what president putin did in ukraine, and clarissa, to your point, the state of the war in ukraine right now, this coming a day after the president's top intelligence official said it was likely that the war was going to grind on for a significant amount of time, while we have seen a very large show of unity at the g7 summit at the nato summit, it is very clear that there are leaders with very different opinions about how the next weeks and months should go, including among them, ukraine's president, volodymyr zelenskyy. how president biden addresses that directly, what he sees for the war in the near term, even as all of these things are moving into motion from a more long-term perspective in the nato alliance, but the other very, very prominent issue here is coming from the domestic side. as you noted, the president has not taken questions in a formal question and answer setting in quite some time, hasn't taken any questions at all related to domestic issues over the course of the last several weeks.
there are no shortage of them for him to address. the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade is really emanating throughout the united states right now. the economy is something that is very interconnected with what's happened here in the g7 and the nato summit with european allies where the progress is or is not on that. and, of course, you expect the president to be asked about the kind of jaw dropping january 6th hearing earlier this week. there are no shortage of issues that the president could be asked about, but i think most importantly for the president, at least up top, he wants to focus on what happened over the course of the last five days and particularly what happened over the course of the last 48 hours with the planned assessing of two new countries to nato and the dramatic shift in u.s. force posture in response to president putin's invasion of ukraine. >> phil mattingly, thank you. let's speak now to our panel, joining us now, cnn chief national affairs analyst, kasie hunt, gloria borger, and cnn contributor evan asnos, he's written -- a writer at the "the
new yorker." good to have all of you this morning. as you know, conferences such as this can often be more talk than action. this one actually has some deliverables. the expansion of nato, welcoming finland and sweet sweden, gettir turkey's opposition, a significant expansion of forces on the eastern flank. i wonder as you look at this, evan, the president, central to these negotiations, has this been a success for president biden, has it been a success for nato? >> i think they're feeling that things are a lot better than they were predicted to be. it is worth reminding people just a couple of years ago you had a u.s. president talking about withdrawing from nato. the french president macron was talking about nato as being brain dead and here we are today, it was predicted at the beginning of this war that russian forces could be in kyiv in three days. that didn't happen because of the heroics of the ukrainians and because of this really unexpected coherence among nato. which wa
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