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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  June 30, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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we begin tonight with the effort to discredit cassidy hutchinson's testimony before the house january 6th select committee and effort to destroy the credibility of a 26-year-old woman who had the courage to do what the former white house counsel and president's own chief of staff do not have to courage to do. two days after telling the committee that the former president of the united states sent a mob of people, some of who he knew to be armed to the capitol, she is being attacked by the president and his defenders. men like jim jordan whose republican members are attacking her testimony. he does not have the courage she showed and is refusing to tell the committee what he knows. men like her former boss, then chief of staff mark meadows who are openly defying the subpoena and testify and avoiding us, as well. we'd love to talk to him not under oath, but he's shown no willingness to even face questions from reporters. house minority leader kevin mccarthy is seeking to cast doubt on miss hutchinson's testimony and the work of the committee. >> this is just the continuation.
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they're obsessed with trump and this is all they want to do, but this hearsay would never be allowed in the court of law. >> we should point out, nothing would be hearsay if mr. meadows or pat cipollone would testify under oath. all they need to do is tell the truth. say what they said. then everything would be clear. hutchinson is also being attacked by the former president himself. here's some of what he told news max yesterday for an interview that aired today. >> this lady yesterday, there's something wrong with her? is there something wrong? the woman is living in fantasy land. she's a social climber, if you call it social. she's got serious problems. mental problems. but for this girl to sit there and just, i think just make up stories. and again, i hardly know who she is. >> this girl, he says, about a highly regarded 26-year-old republican woman who loyally served as the principle aide to his own chief of staff, mark meadows, claiming she has mental problems. i would say he was stooping that
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low, but he wasn't stooping at all. he is just that low. so are a number of people in his orbit. three sources familiar with the matter tell cnn that cassidy hutchinson says she was con contacted by someone attempting to influence her testimony. in her closing remarks tuesday, liz cheney said two witness told the committee they heard from people connected to the former president's world who might have been trying to influence them. sources say miss hutchinson is one of those witnesses. as for questions how at least some republicans are feeling now about the former president, listen to what congresswoman cheney said last night at the reagan presidential library in southern california and listen to the reaction she got. >> republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and loyal to the constitution. at this moment -- [ applause ]
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>> joining us now, "new york times" washington correspondent and cnn analyst maggie haber mann. what is your sense of how the former president, is he worried or his allies worried about what cassidy hutchinson has testified to? >> during her testimony, there was a lot of anxiety. since her testimony, there's less because of these discrediting efforts that you are seeing. she was pretty clear on the most explosive thing that she talked about, which was this secret service car incident that she was talking about something that she didn't know first-hand. a lot of what she has said in that haerg has been stood up in other ways. the most important part of the car story is that trump wanted to go to the capitol. >> and he knew people were armed. >> right. and that he was aware that people were armed and also that he wanted the magnetometers taken down. that part, i don't know if there's been corroboration or if it's been discredited. i think there's been a very traditional trump effort to try to knock down somebody saying something about him. his remarks about hutchinson or what he's said about a number of
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people. >> well, that was actually my next question to you, which is -- it's remarkable the consistency he has in his attacks on anybody he suddenly feels has betrayed him, familiafamiliar particularly women. it's always demeaning them in some way or another, often with mental instability. >> and that he hardly knows them. >> hardly knows them, of course. >> and to be clear, not sure how well he knew cassidy hutchinson. that's not the point. the point is she was in many, many meetings with mark meadows, sometimes as mark meadows' proxy. i spoke with pete king today. he said cassidy hutchinson was his point person during covid. that's how frequently he was dealing with her in his office. so she was in a position of she was also pretty close to kevin mccarthy. so, it was striking to hear him say that in such a dismissive way, because he actually knows
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her. >> according to her, he called her while president trump was on stage on january 6th at the ellipse and accused her of lying to him about the president going to the capitol. >> that's right. and look, mccarthy, as you said, is another one of the republicans who has walked away from this committee, so, there's no way of knowing what his response to that would be, but he's certainly someone -- one of the oddities around cassidy hutchinson, as just somebody surviving in that world, she was close to mark meadows and kevin mccarthy, who people who don't really particularly like each other. >> there's new "l.a. times" reporting that mark meadows brought a fraud allegation to bill barr the day after the 2020 election questioning the results. according to records released by the justice department. is that significant at all? >> what's significant is the actual allegation he was bringing to the attorney general was, if i read the story correctly, was a tweet by tom fitten of judicial watch. that was the allegation. that was something he was pulling off twitter. that was foreshadowing what we saw mark meadows doing over many weeks between november 3rd and january 6th, which was passing
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along internet rumors or pieces of gossip or things that were totally unverified and running down cabinet members to look these things through. that was not what you would expect a chief of staff to be doing. >> it's amazing how m.i.a. mark meadows is now in all of this. i mean, we know now that the trump super pac gave, i think it was a million dollars to an organization which mark meadows is now a senior member of. and that was given soon after i think the january 6th committee started or before, when it was named. where is mark meadows? >> that donation has raised a lot of eyebrows, in terms of what the point of it was, and we still don't know what the answer is. but where mark meadows is, trying not to cooperate where t with the committee after basically providing the committee a road map. the hundreds of text messages he turned over to the committee are
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not all the text messages that he has as we understand it to be, but it's a huge volume that allowed them to really understand basically week by week and in some cases, day by day and minute by minute, what was happening in the days after november 3rd and the days leading up to january 6th. they would have a much harder task without that. >> thanks, maggie, very much. here to talk more about cassidy hutchinson as a witness in the ongoing attempt now to attack her including from the former president. jeffrey toobin and denver wriggleman. congressman, i want to get to the next steps of the committee in a moment, but first, you heard vice chair cheney speak strongly against the former president. i just want to play another moment from her speech. >> at this moment, we are confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before. and that is a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. >> you were working with her on this committee. she's obviously not backing down despite the cost to herself politically. >> well, i tell you, when you're talking about liz and what she said about the constitution.
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when you're talking about cassidy, when you're talking about these individuals, it's amazing to me that they're leaning forward so far to make sure that the truth and facts get out there. it was interesting listening to maggie when she talked about the meadows text messages being a roadmap. it was almost like a qanon chat room. the attacks against cassidy, the attacks you see against liz and other republicans, all of them sort of follow the same formula. that's utilizing propaganda out into the the far right maga centers of gravity where the communication lines to just sort of drag these people across the internet and across social media and try to discredit them. and i got to tell you, anderson, seeing this, this is very, very indicative of what happened to me and what happened to a lot of individuals that spoke out in a facts-based way. but when you're going against hysterical individuals that are fact-challenged, it's very difficult to sort of influence them that the facts are the facts. and listening to liz and then seeing what happened with cassidy, everything like that, it's really bothersome to
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somebody like me who has went through, but they're going through it in a way that's hard to imagine. >> it is also worth noticing that the criticism of cassidy is completely unspecific. it's like, she's crazy. she's a liar. she's a leaker. >> a social climber. >> a social climber. but no specific allegation that she is specifically lying about anything, because as far as i'm aware, there is no specific evidence that she lied about anything. >> to maggie's point about the big issues of the prn the crowd armed, wanted the magnetometers gone and wanted to go to the capitol himself, that's not being challenged by these people. >> except that she's being challenged in general and those are incredibly damaging statements that she made and the only people who could conceivably refute them are not talking at all and they're especially not talking under oath. >> or, not even refute them, but they're the people who actually said these things often and cassidy hutchinson is just
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repeating because she happened to overhear it. jeff, i do want to ask you, though, about the -- what sources say to cnn that cassidy hutchinson was one of the witnesses who received some sort of attempt to influence her testimony. i want to play a clip from the former white house spokeswoman on "new day" this morning. >> cassidy came to me and said there's more i want to share with a committee. i put her in touch with congresswoman cheney. she got a new lawyer and that's how this testimony came about. >> her former lawyer was a lawyer -- the chief ethics lawyer at the white house. what does it say to you that she felt she needed to change lawyers? >> this is a classic thing that happens in the investigation of any large, any substantial organization. whether it's a company under investigation for fraud or a mafia family. the first sign that someone is starting to break ranks is that they get a lawyer who's outside
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the circle of confidence and she was right to get her an independent lawyer because that's when she started filling out her story. including the parts that are damaging to the former president. >> vice chair cheney ended miss hutchinson's hearing showing statements provided by witnesses, again, one of which sources say was miss hutchinson herself that may show attempts to influence testimony. or intimidate. you've spoken before about the communications, text messages, emails, to which the committee has access. are attempts to influence or intimidate witnesses, do you think that's going to be a focus of the committee or potentially department of justice? >> i think it should be. i mean, when you talk about intimidating witnesses, you're talking about influencing people to say something or not say something, it's pretty interesting. there's a lot of members right now who don't believe one thing about stop the steal, yet there's no way they're going to push back against that, because there's a couple things that's going to happen to them. number one, they're going to
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lose their money or fund raising, they're going to lose power and they could very likely lose an election. when you talk about text messages that are being sent to cassidy, it's almost like the negotiation method, right? here's a deal, you know, that you can't refuse, right? you're going to have to do this. either you are going to get the money or we're going to try to destroy you, just do the right thing. and that happens a lot in these circles. when you see the people going after cassidy, just look at where they work. are they working at the american first institute, are they working for cpi, are they working for turning point? so, as you look at the individuals that are attacking cassidy online, you think about the text messages she's getting, this is all about financial collaborators making sure their money lines are working and making sure they protect the president, because that's how they earn a paycheck. and again, anderson, i've said this for a long time, i love listening to you and mr. toobin talk about this, but for me, it's pretty simple. they are just telling cassidy, listen. if you buck up, you're going to get paid.
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if you don't you , you're going get attacks. i'm glad that the committee is looking at it. >> by the way, no one wants to follow that model, because he wound up sleeping with the fishes. >> the -- it's very hard to make these witness intimidation cases unless people are stupid enough to send texts or emails with the threats in them. if it's simply based on conversation, that's just a very hard case to make. >> jeff toobin, congressman, thank you. coming up next, and this goes to what we've been discussing, more on reaction to cassidy hutchinson's testimony says about the former administration's view of staffers, especially women who take the witness stand. i'll ask former republic congresswoman along with olivia troy. and later, we've been talking about it, the qanon cult. after a year and a half, the account used by so-called q is active again, just in time, of course, to start trying to raise suspicions about cassidy hutchinson. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep,
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talked at the top of the broadcast the former president's attack on cassidy hutchinson and the character of it. bear in mind, as you listen again, he's talking about someone talented enough to work in the west wing as the gate keeper for the chief of staff, mark meadows. >> she's got serious problems. mental problems. mental problems. but for this girl to sit there and just -- i think, just make up stories. and again, i hardly know who she is. >> which is of course an old favorite for the former president. perspective now from barbara come stock and olivia troy, who worked in the administration with cassidy hutchinson, serving as former vice president mike pence's homeland security and counterterrorism adviser. >> congresswoman, as you watch the reaction to cassidy hutchinson's testimony from the former president and his inner circle, what does it tell you about how they view former staffers, particularly women who are brave enough to testify in public? >> well, i usually can't get through some of the ridiculous
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interviews donald trump does. such a sore loser, but the little i saw of it made clear they were frightened by what cassidy hutchinson did. i think she was a poised, accomplished young woman who came forward, you know, 26 years old and did what men, boys, frankly, a lot of these guys working in the trump white house, you know, twice and three times her age were afraid to to. so i think she was impressive. i think this entire effort by the committee has been impressive and i think liz cheney in particular with showing us that courage is contagious. whether it's people like olivia troy who's with us tonight or cassidy or liz cheney out there being i think the margaret chase smith of our generation. i think courage is contagious and the misogyny of the trump
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world is not going to be received well. >> it's women like you, cassidy, alyssa who had the courage and it's mostly men who have chosen to remain silent. >> yeah, it's completely shameful. and the sad part is that they know someone like cassidy, she was critical to the operation in the west wing. i mean, she was mark meadows' right-hand person. we all worked closely with her. and it's sad, because here she is standing on her own and she's being disparaged and you have a former president of the united states demeaning women very publicly and talking about her mental health. i saw that clip. it was disgusting and appalling. and yet where are the men in this whole scenario? they could be taking a stand, as well. and they continue to hide or they make comments, anonymous comments behind closed doors or statements, but they won't come forward and testify publicly and they won't go on the record to say things. >> yeah, congresswoman, you mentioned mig sojny and i think it's important to talk about. we heard the former president refer to cassidy hutchinson and, quote, this girl, attacked her,
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claiming she has mental problems. i mean, how much do you see misogyny as an underlying theme here? >> oh, well, it's been about underlying theme with donald trump. if you had a man and a woman say the same thing, he would particularly go after a woman with relish much more. if it was a minority woman, he would do it even more. this is how he has operated. so i think it's petty and silly. i think that's why you're seeing more and more people are just looking, you know, even if they don't want to admit, you know, we don't like trump, they're looking away. they realize this is a guy who's petty and focused on himself and selfish. i mean, while literally the capitol was under siege and being attacked, while cassidy hutchinson is going around the white house saying, please, grownups here, do something, do something, donald trump is doing nothing, mark meadows is scrolling through his phone. and, you know, she has to, you know, figure out, how can i get them to do something? we know ivanka trump didn't -- i
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guess sometime she came forward, but listen, in life, you want be a cassidy hutch chininsonhutchi ivanka trump. these women who at this difficult time when somebody needs to stand up for democracy, she's doing this and it's actually i think easier to do the right thing and i think she will find that out and i think she will inspire other young women to realize public service is a great thing to be involved in and we don't need to have the kind of ridiculous boys that we had during the trump administration. a lot of these guys have young daughters or kids cassidy's age and they should be ashamed that they're making her carry the cross when they should be doing it themselves. >> olivia, you worked in the administration. how were women, especially junior staffers viewed -- although, frankly, cassidy hutchinson, you know, by her age, you would say she was a junior staffer, but obviously she had tremendous responsibility and was a point person for the chief of staff.
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but how were women viewed, treated by not only the former president, but the senior staff in general? >> well, you know, the president was known for making comments and it was known that he would comment on your looks or outfits. he would do this openly in meeting. it was just that type of environment. that's who donald trump is. and that carried forth i think in the way, the behavior that surrounded us. but i will say this. these staffers, more junior staffers, although she was senior considering the access she had, they worked hard. they were a critical part of the operation and making the trains run and that's what people forget. people try to, you know, i saw donald trump's tweet earlier, donald trump jr.'s tweet and he's calling her the coffee girl. okay, well, let's say she was the coffee girl. but the coffee girl and the staff, they hear all. i was a young staffer in my 20s
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you sit in all the meetings and you hear it all and she witnessed it. that doesn't take away the fact she heard it and she was willing to come forward and testify truthfully. and so, i think they're scrambling. i think they're reaching for whatever they can, but the truth is they're not deflecting the actual facts of what happened here. and so, you know, i think it's unfortunate, any time somebody tells the truth, especially when they call us names or call us liars or they say they never met us. that seems to be the trend, right? who? i don't know her. >> for donald trump jr. to disparage miss hutchinson as the coffee girl, you know, not everybody has a father who runs a corporation that you can get a job for on, job with even though you have no qualifications, which donny trump jr. doesn't have. so for him to be disparaging anybody who has worked hard and gotten themselves to a position of tremendous respect is sad at
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the very least. sorry, congresswoman, i interrupted you. >> and look who's not talking. i was going to point out, you're not getting, remember, elise stefanik was going to be leading the charge in these hearings and defending donald trump. she's nowhere to be found. >> appreciate it. thank you. just ahead tonight, after an 18-month absence, the online poster known as q is back, and naming cassidy hutchinson. perhaps not coincidentally. we'll discuss the dangers the qanon movement may pose. also a history-making day for the supreme court and for america. with technology that can scale across all your clouds... it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling] your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit
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another person lining up against cassidy hutchinson is the anonymous online poster q, whose completely absurd posts, which would be laughably cryptic and are never actually accurate, are at the heart of the qanon conspiracy movement. after 18 months of silence, the q count is back and on wednesday, it aimed its conspiracies towards hutchinson. it's really too stupid to even show the posts of this q person, but the posts contain numerous cryptic questions and ended with a asking, "who is cassidy hutchinson" and "trust the plan." the q stuff would be funny if it didn't have real world consequences. the fbi says it's arrested more than 20 people involved in capitol riots who said they followed qanon.
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one of the most famous, jacob, who was seen in face paint and a head dress in the senate chamber, he's been sentenced to 41 months in prison. another was sentenced to eight years following an armed standoff near the hoover dam. that guy. he was demanding release of a justice department report on hillary clinton's e-mails, which is a popular qanon conspiracy. i'm joined by donny sullivan and andrew mccabe, former fbi deputy director. what does it mean that, now that the q account is back up and running? >> yeah, i mean, anderson, i think among the kind of polite company here in washington -- in washington, d.c. and here in new york city, the conventional wisdom might be to say we should ignore it, it's stupid. it is dumb, it is objectively dumb, but what happened last time when folks weren't talking about that? half the country then was wondering why did a ton of people wearing q pair nail ya
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show up at the capitol? >> and mike flynn was selling that. >> it's part of a huge grift. look, there is obviously the crazy qanon believes when it cameras to kabals -- >> drinking blood. blah, blah, blah. >> but it's part of just a tapestry, a range of conspiratorial parts that the republican party now believe. from lies about the election up to qanon. it kind of all goes hand in hand. i think what we're all going to see that this account, this phantom poster online, could actually play a role in upcoming republican primaries and could cause a bit of chaos in the midterms, as well, when it comes to the republican side of things. >> it seems interesting that the former president is you know, coming under serious criticism after cassidy hutchinson's testimony, q -- the q account pops back up, raising questions about cassidy hutchinson. >> yeah, q had not posted since
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december of 2020, right after trump won the election. q was promising -- >> lost the election. >> sorry. lost the election. >> said he won the election. >> that is going to drive the qanon people crazy, so -- >> right there. you will now be the subject -- as if you haven't been already. >> actually. but -- has not posted since december of 2020. came back a few hours after the roe decision and like we saw, mentioned cassidy hutchinson by name. called her out and what we have seen in the past when q calls out someone, they become harassed, as you know yourself. >> i spoke with qanon followers for a special report we did last year. listen to this guy. >> did you at the time believe that democrat -- high-level democrats and celebrities were worshipping satan, drinking the blood of children? >> anderson, i thought you did that. and i would like to apologize for that right now. >> was it something about me that made you think that?
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>> it's because q spe sif ifkly mentioned you and he mentioned you very early on. he mentioned you by name. >> andrew, what is the significance of q mentioning hutchinson and what could be you think real world consequences? >> sure, so, as you and doni have already summarized, there is no significance to the post beyond the fact that he included her name specifically. it's not because he said anything logical or factual. it's just the existence of her name in that post turns her into a target for people who ascribe to these beliefs. and as you know, anderson, the posts are deliberately vague. they're inane. they just raise questions that cannot possibly be answered. and then to throw her name into that conspiratorial milieu is very, very damaging to her, in terms of the attention it will
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bring from people who believe in who knows which one of the qanon conspiracies. >> right, andrew. because part of the appeal, i think, for people who follow this stuff, is that it gives them a focus to, you know, project things onto. it gives them this, like, treasure hunt of, you know, then they just go online and start to kind of imagine stuff about miss hutchinson or whomever it is, and they go down all these rabbit holes and invent all this stuff and it becomes this -- it's like a -- just this ball rolling that more and more people get in on and believe it that they're part of some sort of investigation that amounts to nothing and is all based on just complete bs. >> it's a cave. it's a cave of conspiracies that people project their anger, they project their grievances into and they extract from it whatever they want. and so if you toss this young woman's name into that conversation, into that froth,
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you run the risk that someone who is following these things and who's projecting their own rage and their dissatisfaction about whatever it is in life they're mad about, is going to attach her to that and one of those people, maybe more than one, might decide to take the matter into their own hands and resort to an act of violence in the exact same way that the young man from north carolina did about the nonsense around comet ping-pong pizza, the pizza restaurant here in washington, d.c., when he had been digesting all this material, got in his car, drove to d.c. on a sunday with an ar-15, intending to shoot up the place. >> right, believing that there were kids being held in the basement. i mean, some sort of crazy conspiracy theory. yeah. andrew mccabe, appreciate it. donie, as well. coming up, history being made at the supreme court today, but both because of its newest member, also because of the decision handed down by the court's conservatives curbing the power of the epa. the fallout from this monumental
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well, an internet connection's a good start. but kids also need computers. and sometimes the hardest thing about homework is finding a place to do it. so why not hook community centers up with wifi? for kids like us, and all the amazing things we're gonna learn. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. historic day at the supreme court today. ketanji brown jackson was sworn
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in as supreme court justice. the first black woman to serve on the nation's highest court. president biden was overseas during the ceremony, but said in a statement her historic swearing in represents a profound step forward. there was other significant news out of the court, as well. a significant blow to the environmental protection agency in the efforts to slow climate change. in a 6-3 decision, the court's conservatives curbed the power of the epa to broadly regulate greenhouse gases. the court cited a legal doctrine. critics are outraged not only because of what it means for the fight against climate change, but the impact it may have on the government's ability to regulate other areas, including the internet and worker safety. joining us again, jeffrey toobin, a former federal prosecutor. what does it mean for federal government's efforts on climate change? >> going to be a lot harder. the doctrine here is that conservatives have been saying for years the administrative agencies are too powerful. so, they've been arguing that when congress passes a law, all the agencies can do is precisely
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what's in the law. they can't use the law as an invitation to use their expertise and regulate the way they have traditionally for generations. it's all designed to limit the power of the administrative agencies and it's especially true with the environment because you can't just regulate the environment without detailed regulations and that's what was struck down today. that idea. >> in her dissent, justice kagan said that the supreme court quote doesn't have a clue about how to address climate change, which may be true, but is that really the court's job to address climate change? i mean, if they view the law just reading the law, even if it's bad for the planet, isn't their job just to care about the law? >> yeah, but their view of the law is that agencies have to be -- they can only do what the law says.
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they can't extend the law. they can't interpret the law. that's the big issue is do the regulatory agencies have the ability to interpret law in order to pass regulations. if they can't interpret the law, they can't do anything and that's the point and that's why you know, the coal companies and the oil companies have been so active in funding these supreme court fights because they're the big beneficiaries of this decision. >> ketanji brown jackson becoming a justice of the supreme court, does that change things at all? >> you know, it changes things because america's a different place because an african american woman has now been on the supreme court for the first time. in terms of the results that come out of the court, almost certainly not. presumably her record will be very similar to stephen breyer, for whom she clerked. she was appointed by a democratic president. but look at these decisions on guns. on abortion. on the environment here. all of them 6-3.
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all of them with elena kagan, sonia sotomayor, and breyer. >> this was a huge season in terms of rulings. is this going to be every season now? >> you know, anderson, i've been covering the court for 25 years -- i knew intellectually this was going to happen, but to see it unfold this way is so extraordinary and the influence is so tremendous and the answer is yes, as far as i can tell. it is going to be like this. and we've even seen the cases lining up for next year. getting rid of affirmative action all together. changing electoral law so state legislatures can do whatever the hell they want. all of this is teeing up for the conservatives to keep changing constitutional law. as they did this year. >> thank you. coming up, judges in two states putting a pause on abortion restrictions and more fallout from roe v. wade reversal. the growing fear from some that ivf could be the next target and doctors' work could be criminalized. criminalized. that's the pain. emerge tremfyant®.
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judges in florida and kentucky took action today after the roe v. wade reversal last week. florida judge will issue a
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temporary injunction on a state law that would prevent abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy and abortions can resume in kentucky for now after a judge granted a request for a temporary restraining law on the state's so-called trigger law calling for the end of abortions if roe is overturned. before leaving madrid, president biden called for this action on capitol hill. >> i believe we have to codify roe v. wade in the law and the way to do that is to make sure the congress votes to do that and if the filibuster gets in the way, it's like voting rights, it should be -- we provide an exception for this, the -- require an exception to the fillibuster for this action. >> president biden today but right now, the senate doesn't have the 60 votes needed to codify roe v. wade. all the uncertainty isn't just tied to abortion. there are those who go through fertility treatments. those families and their doctors worry they could be the next target.
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more on that now from cnn's amara walker. >> she's always awake. always >> always a way. always wanting to see what's going on. >> for carly gilbert, her twins are a gift from god and science. >> you wanted a family. how badly did you want it? >> so bad. >> a nearly four-year long struggle with infertility led this hospice nurse to in vitro. the embryo is then planted into a woman's uterus. >> i saw how hard it is for families to be started . i don't take my girls for granted whatsoever. >> she says it was a dark and lonely journey after three failed embryo transfer, she began to lose hope. >> got on meditation because i felt so depressed that i couldn't have what other people were getting. ed but this past march 30-year-old got what she wanted
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from her fourth embryo transfer, two healthy babies. triggering abortion bans or restrictions in multiple states including mississippi, gilbert's home state, which is moving to ban abortions in nearly all cases. she wonders what all this means for her frozen embryos in storage in texas when its new law stating life begins at fertilization takes effect. >> is that going to affect that? >> reporter: dr. preston perry is gilbert's reproductive endocrinologist. he says his patients are petrified. >> whether they can do ivf, whether somebody can regulate, whether they can get their embryos, how they will be able to choose embryos before transferring. >> reporter: dr. perry worries about the impact on his career. >> basically doctors could be charged with murder if an embryo fails to develop. >> reporter: they're valid concerns says this professor. she expects some states to pass
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fetal personhood laws giving legal rights of people to an embryo in the wake of a supreme court ruling. destroying an embryo, she warns, could be considered homicide. >> if we end up in a place where there are states that define an embryo as potential life and there's restrictions on discarding them, then you would have to actually implant them in order to not, you know, quote, kill them. >> reporter: one round of ivf could result in multiple embryos which could be frozen. some embryos that are not viable or are genetically abnormal are discarded to increase the chances of pregnancy. fetal personhood laws will potentially determine now embryos are used. >> we're going to see this kind of fertility tourette where people are going to try to move the embryos because of this uncertainty and fear that they
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wouldn't have control of what to do with their embryos, that they would have to implant them or that they couldn't discard them. >> reporter: for dr. perry, meeting his patients' babies, like gilbert's twins for the first time, is the best part of the job. he and gilbert hope the scientific process of building families will not be sacrificed as the battle rages on. >> my job is bringing kids into this world. that's the most pro-life type of setting that you can imagine. it is really scary to see how far this pendulum may swing. we don't know when it will stop. >> i just feel like everybody should have the opportunity to be able to start their families and live the dream that we all dream to be. >> reporter: now, anderson, some legal experts say that if a person has an embryo in storage in a state that has already banned abortion or has severely restricted it or is in a state
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that is likely to do so, like here in georgia, they advise that these people move their embryos to a state that has safe haven laws like california, new york, connecticut, oregon, that have strengthened abortion protections. ivf is currently legal in all 50 states and it's unlikely according to many legal experts i spoke with that there will be an immediate effect on the system. >> thank you. up next, after six weeks on the run, authorities have finally found the woman accused of killing an elite cyclist. the details of where she was hiding and how they found her is next. so, people can get a free samsung galaxy s22 when they trade in a galaxy, any year any condition. oh i get it. so you can take your old phone, that you've had for 12 years and loved every minute of, and trade it in for something new that suits your life now? that's right, yeah. and then enjoy immediate success, even though you'll never forget your old phone. ever. it's a great trade.
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now they know she flew from newark airport to san jose, costa rica. they were told she had been using someone else's passport, someone i'm told by the u.s. marshals that she resembles. so, she looked like the person in that passport, and she was passing herself off as that person. so, once they knew that, i'm told with the help of homeland security, they went through the passenger list of newark airport on that day. they were able to pinpoint that person's name, the rightful owner of that passport. they saw that a ticket had been bought, a one-way ticket to san jose, costa rica, in that person's name. they zeroed in on the gate that that flight left from at newark airport, and they were able to see, according to my contact at the u.s. marshal's office, they saw kaitlin armstrong boarding that flight for costa rica. they then reached out to the costa rican authorities, who
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then were able to locate her at a hostile. they arrested her there. she was picked up on an immigration violation for using a fraudulent passport. she's going to be extradited back to the united states. she'll face that murder charge in austin, texas, which occurred on may 18th. and on top of that, anderson, she'll face a federal charge for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. >> just very quickly, did the person whose passport she was using know about it? >> reporter: that's what's unclear. the marshals couldn't say. she just said she resembled that person. it's unclear how she got that passport or if they knew. she did change her appearance as well, anderson. short hair instead of the long, blonde hair she had. the news continues. i want to hand it over to sara sidner and "cnn tonight." -- captions by vitac -- thank you. and this is "cnn tonight." new information is coming to light pertaining to a star witness for the january 6th committee. did donald trump's inner circle try to keep cassidy hutchinson from speaking the truth about what she knows, and is that a