tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 13, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
detected in space. every fraction of a second they recorded a boom, boom, boom. that heartbeat similar to what happens when stars run out of fuel and collapse. what about real heartbeats in space? the new james webb telescope might change our most fundamental understanding. already it's picked up water vapor on a jupiter type crater. that star is only 1,000 light years away. water vapor. just imagine what that could mean? ac 360 starts now. good evening. a day after the seventh public hearing by the january 6th committee, we have new information about a separate justice department investigation and how it ties in about the effort to overturn the elections, specifically that scheme to install fake electors. we want to start with that tonight on capitol hill with cnn
congressional correspondent ryan nobles. what have you learned about this with the january 6th committee? >> reporter: we know it's starting to happen, anderson. this was, of course, a big roadblock to the department of justice's investigation as it expanded into areas beyond the rioters that breached the capitol on that day and started looking into more of the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. they were very interested in many of the interviews of the january 6 select committee had already conducted, but the committee was reluctant to hand over those transcribed interviews to the department of justice because they considered it their work, their property and they wanted to be able to make sure that they had it in their possession as their investigation moved forward. this became somewhat of a standoff between doj and the january 6th select committee, but now they're starting to find areas of common ground and the select committee chairman bennie thompson telling us today that the first batch of information they're going to hand over to the department of justice is the
information that tgleaned about the fake electors. that's significant because we've not seen a lot of detail about that aspect in the department of justice's investigation. it shows that that investigation continues to grow. tomorrohompson said this won't end of the investigation. they will find ways to give the department of justice what they're looking for. anderson, at the end of the january 6th investigation they plan to issue a final report and make all of their interviews public. of course, at that point the doj would have access to all of that information as well. >> what do we know about next week's hearing? there was supposed to be a hearing tomorrow. that got moved. >> we know it will be next week. we expect primetime later in the week. this is of course the hearing that the committee has been building from the very beginning. it is what they believe is the most damning evidence related to donald trump. it is the 187 minutes that the
capitol was under siege. what donald trump was and probably more importantly not doing. they've already described his conduct that day as a dereliction of duty. we expect to hear firsthand accounts from people like pat cipollone, cassidy hutchinson and others in and out of that oval office, in and out of that dining room where donald trump was holding court watching it all unfold. many of them, we assume, are going to offer up testimony that shows he was not making too much of an effort to quell the violence despite the effort that it was his supporters. as you mentioned the committee planned on doing it this week. they pushed it back to next week because i am told they have gotten so much information, new information that will be a part of this hearing and they're just trying to get it all together and put it in a way that is most digestible to the american public. they've been pretty successful at that up until this point but this next hearing could be the biggest one yet. >> ryan nobles, thank you.
let's get perspective from carrie corderro. daniel wriggleman and dana bash who co-anchors united state of the union. carrie, how significant is it that the justice department is looking at the committee to look at the fake electors? >> i think it's important to their investigation that they're able to gather as much information that's relevant to ongoing investigations that they have. if they are working under a theory, for example, under conspiracy to defraud the united states, if they are looking at violations of the electoral count act or basically the issue of fraud that was conducted against the united states by trying to file fake electors and trying to change the outcome of the election through fraudulent means, then anything that the committee is obtaining, whether it's documentary evidence or interviews would be relevant to
the justice department's investigation, both from the perspective of evidence that they might want to obtain and also from the perspective of exculpatory evidence or conflicting evidence that the committee might obtain as compared to what the justice department has learned through its means. >> carrie, can you tell me why won't the committee turn over everything they have to the department of justice? i mean, obviously their interests are aligned. is this sort of -- is this politics? i mean, do they feel protective of the interviews they've done? i don't understand. >> i think there's a variety of reasons. one, there is prerogatives and separations between the branches of government. it's a separate legislative branch. it is conducting its own inquiry so there is just some turf issues with respect to the information that's collected. it could be a manpower issue. the committee is not big, does not have a large, huge staff of resources and they've been conducting their own hearings and putting on their own evidence. it may be that they just haven't had the bandwidth to be able to
comply with all of the information that the justice department wants to obtain. but in order to have both tracks go efficiently and have the justice department to be able to move as expediently as the legislative branch and the public would like it to be able to move, it's a good step, i think, that the committee is finally finding a way to work with them. >> dana, the committee has heard they will hear from pat cipollone from his done testimony, videotaped testimony. is there any sense of what those excerpts are likely to entail? >> a big part, i'm told, of what we are going to hear from pat cipollone is to fill in the blank. the 187 minutes. this is the key question that the committee really hasn't answered. what was the president doing when he was getting desperate phone calls from pretty much everybody saying, do something. tell your people to stop.
basically, call off the mob. and i am told that it was about seven hours that pat cipollone sat and talked with the committee this past friday and that he -- though he was careful to not divulge anything that would be attorney-client privilege, even though it's a little bit suspect because he's white house's counsel and not the president's personal attorney, there are a lot of blanks that will be filled in by pat cipollone about what the president was doing and more importantly not doing during that time. >> congressman wrigman from working on the january 6th committee, how much do you think cipollone's testimony will bolster the evidence that the committee has about the president's actions or inactions on january 6th? >> when you see they've conducted over 1,000 interviews and what they've done on the legal side of this, i think cipollone seals the deal and
validating the information they already had. when you see about the investigation, it's interesting to talk about the optional electors. there are three things they're going to look at. the alternate electors and who they were communicating with. if they have people like the legal team, cipollone talking about the alternate electors, this could be a bombshell for the committee. that's what's very interesting for this. i think they're going to look at the communications, how they interacted with state legislators. if they were getting any kind of constitutional advice from the trump legal team. that's what's really interesting about all of this is they're going to combine the data in text messages. they're going to combine the voluntary data and they're also going to look at the communications and when you are looking at the legal team, when they're talking to trump and cipollone, when you are looking at rosen, all of these individuals, i'm actually pretty confident that the doj and
congress working together on the alternate elector strategy is going to bear fruit and, lastly, i'm going to say this, i think they should work together. curt battles calls this intelligence breakdowns. they want to prioritize this, but i do believe sharing now is actually imperative based on the time line and mid terms coming up, things of that nature. >> carrie, this is naive of me, they have a small staff, but there's plenty of xerox machines still in existence. i'm not sure how much it takes to copy the interviews you've done. it's not like the justice department is going to immediately release those interviews and steal the thunder of the january 6th committee, right? >> right. no. as a practical matter, some might be provided in paper, others digitally, the committee wants to know what it is providing. there is a due diligence where people have to look at -- they have to go through all of the information before they provide it. but, you know, just with respect
to looking ahead in terms of the hearings that are coming and the one that was this week, from my perspective, the -- what transpired on the day of january 6th and the missing time and what transpired in the white house, i tend to view that as more relevant politically in terms of folks on the committee bant wanting to damage the former president versus the several days and weeks leading up to january 67th as more of a time frame. so what representative raskin said the other day was that they had -- the committee had in its possession hundreds of messages between individuals connected to the violent extremist group and folks in the former president's inner circle and they have only released a fraction of those.
to me, that was the most important pieces of information that we still don't know in terms of evidence that the committee has obtained. >> anderson, i think that's true, that the committee has very much especially in the hearing that they had this week laid out the fact that the former president was very much involved in getting the word out there that this rally was going to happen. he's the one who did it. in fact, the protesters, then there were protestors, changed the date of the time that they were going to come to washington after they saw his tweet. he was communicating with them the best way that he knew how, which was through twitter. but the time that he was not doing anything, when this was actually happening, when stuff was going down, it's even more -- potentially more evident and more damning because it's even more proof that that's what he wanted.
and that perhaps when that was happening, that he had some idea in his head that one of the other sort of fantasy theories of how he could stay in power could come to fruition even though there was no way because as we've heard from testimony after testimony after testimony, that was not legally possible. >> yeah. >> anderson, every time you talk about xerox machines i can see all the millennials and gen z googling. >> they can look it up. >> i didn't say ditto machines. >> mimeograph. >> appreciate it. still more to come on the january 6th investigation. the woman who promised to release the cracken and thought she had been appointed as the special counsel. sidney powell. she was at the center of the effort to overturn the election. who better to talk about these pictures, william shatner, who did actually go into space
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yesterday former white house counsel pat cipollone describing the meeting in athat descended a vortex. >> i was not happy to see the people in the oval offic e. >> in the short time he received receptive to the presentation you were making? >> he was very interested in hearing particularly about the
>> sidney powell with the dr. pepper. actually, i think it was diet dr. pepper. gary tuchman has more. >> planning for her while she was helping him promote his election fraud claims. >> pat cipollone, if he had the authority to name the special counsel and he said yes and he asked him if he had the authority to give me whatever security clearance i needed and pat cipollone said yes. and the president said, yes, i'm naming her that and i'm giving her security clearance. >> and what was then white house counsel pat cipollone's answer? >> i was vehemently against it. >> sidney powell has a history of dabbling about conspiracy theories. a week and a half after election day she was asked by a sympathetic tv host if she believed the election results were part of an effort to
overthrow trump's presidency. >> oh, absolutely. it's been organized and conducted with the help of silicon valley people. >> i'm going to release the cracken. >> release the cracken. >> it became a catch phrase for releasing the evidence. >> i can hardly wait to release the information. it was created to produce altered voting results in venezuela for hugo chavez. >> donald trump ranted about the dominion voting system's company, too. >> with the turn of a dial, with the change of a chip, you can press a button for trump and the vote goes to biden. >> none of the evidence is true.
>> it's a massive and historical egregious fraud the world has ever seen. >> one of the organizations who had the responsibility to check the nature of this election say there was no froud. >> that's the propaganda they're putting out. i disagree with that. we will produce information that shows otherwise. >> are you saying thousands of americans participated in a fraud? >> i am saying that thousands of americans had some role in it knowingly or unknowingly.
>> reporter: these claims have led to lawsuits against powell. her own lawyers defending her in a defamation lawsuit by dominion made a notable claim arguing that no reasonable person would conclude that her statements were truly statements of fact but her attorneys also declared she believed the allegations then and she believes them now. >> do you ever hear yourself and think it sounds ridiculous? >> no. i know myself very well. i've been in me a long time. i know my reputation. >> reporter: gary tuchman, cnn, new york. >> that's an interesting phrase. we said it's from a four decade old film, clash of the titans, 1981 it was made. we showed a clip of the 2010 remake. i don't want to get letters from my film friends, nerd friends who will be like, you messed it up. we go on. up next, inflation reached a 40-year high in june according
to a new report as president biden spoke about a possible rematch. harry will probably complain about us getting it wrong, clash of the titans. he'll talk about how it could turn out if the two men meet again. we'll be right back. [whistling] when you have technology that'sasier to control... thatan scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] ♪
jumped by 9.1% since june. overall prices rose by 1.3% from may to june. that's the biggest jump since september of 2005. recession looming high on people's minds. the president today called the inflation reading, quote, unacceptably high and said tackling inflation is his, quote, top priority. he said the reading is out of date noting decreased prices in the last 30 days. president biden hinted he will welcome another run against the former president. >> are you predicting a biden/trump rematch in 2024. >> i'm not predicting but i would -- i would not be disappointed. >> you would not be disappointed. so you look forward to that? >> no. look. the one thing i know about politics, american politics in particular, is there's no way to predict what's going to happen.
i'm he not even halfway through my term yet. >> yeah. >> there's a lot of room to figure out what's going to happen. >> we've decided to release the cracken tonight. joining me is our favorite senior data reporter harry enten. >> you don't know what that film is. >> it's all good now. i'm caught up. >> and the remake. i'm caught up. >> inflation. >> i made a limited number of slides. the first someone complicated. i'll walk us through it. >> i'm thrown by slides. >> you're not that old. my mother perhaps has a few from a few years ago. >> don't say that. >> i love my mother. >> anyway, the point is, take a look at joe biden's job disapproval rating since last year, july of 2022. look at it seven months ago in december of 2021 -- july of 2021, december of 2021 and now.
what do you see? do you see his disapproval rating is rising from the 40s into the high 50s. at the same time their top concern is inflation. a year ago no one was saying inflation was a concern outside of larry summers. now it is a clear number one issue and we see this clear correlation as more people are concerned about inflation, joe biden's disapproval rating climbs higher. >> larry summers did get it right. >> he did. >> how does this stack up? >> yeah, so we can look at both joe biden's disapproval rating on inflation and joe biden's disapproval rating overall and what we see is his disapproval rating on inflation is topping 70%. his disapproval rating overall is in the 50s. but if you compare that to every single other president at this point in their first term throughout polling history, all
the way back since the 1940s, he is the worst on both. the reason he is worst overall is because inflation is eating his presidency alive at this point. >> what does it look like in comparison with him and former president trump? >> you know, one of the things i love about politics is a song i think nothing from nothing was a song back in the 1970s. >> take it away. take it away ♪ nothing from nothing ♪ >> if you match up joe biden and donald trump, their favorable ratings, joe biden is slightly higher than donald trump. not that he's a popular guy. 41% is a higher favorable rating than 39%. this gets at what joe biden was talking about, why he welcomes this. because i'm fairly convinced at this point that the only candidate joe biden could beat is donald trump. >> and where do things stand overall for voter's choice?
>> we had a poll that came out earlier. nate cohn at the "times" put it out. in your choice for president in 2024, joe biden leads donald trump 44 to 41%. there's 10% who said they would vote for another candidate. that's not surprising. >> are you friends with all the other data people? >> we all get together -- we all get together. i'm going to cohn's wedding, i believe it's in december. >> nice. >> you know, maybe one day i'll invite him to my wedding, but that is not in the near future. >> run some numbers. >> i'll run some and get them back to you. >> up next, new developments in the mysterious murder of alex mourdock's wife and son. why his lawyers say he could be facing more charges soon. what a texas house committee plans to do when they investigate the slow robb elementary school shooting where 19 chihildren and two teachers were murdered.
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attempted insurance fraud and financial fraud. randi kaye has been covering this for years. there are possible murder charges against mr. mourdock. randi? >> reporter: anderson, this grand jury is meeting in south carolina tomorrow. i spoke with both of alex mourdock's lawyers and they both told me that sled, south carolina law enforcement division, has informed them they are seeking murder charges against alex mourdock. the lawyers have always defended him saying he was not at the property but now it will be up to the grand jury here in south carolina to decide if there's enough evidence to indict alex mourdock. here is what we know about the night that maggie and paul mourdock were murdered. >> my wife and child. >> reporter: june of last year, a disturbing 911 call from the mourdock family home in south carolina. >> are they breathing?
>> no, ma'am. >> you said it's your wife and your son? >> my wife and my son. >> what is your name? >> my name is alex murdaugh. >> that's alex and his wife and 22-year-old son paul. >> the shooting happened here at the family's home. you can't see the home. when they arrived at the house that night of june 7th, they quickly determined both victims had been shot multiple times. >> this is paul mourdock's death certificate, showed he suffered gunshot wounds in the head and chest. alex said he found his wife and son dead. listen to how he checked to see if they were breathing. >> i don't want you to touch them at all. i don't know if you've already touched them. i don't want you to touch them in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? >> i've already touched them
trying to get -- to see if they were breathing. >> from the start despite alex murdaugh's denials, he was identified as a person of interest in the double murder but say he was visiting his mother at the time of the murders and has alibis to back that up. as far as evidence in the case, south carolina's fits news first reported and a source with knowledge of the investigation confirmed to cnn high velocity impact spatter was found on alex murdaugh's clothes which could place him at the scene and in close contact with one of the victims when they were killed. high velocity spatter is from a high velocity weapon like a rifle especially at close range. it creates a very specific blood pattern. paul murdaugh's phone was found at the scene and on that phone there is video which contains audio of alex murdaugh's wife
maggie. he is not seen on the video but he is heard speaking with her and that has a time stamp which could be key to the investigation. we reached out to both of alex murdaugh's lawyers about all of this. they would not go on camera but told me by phone they don't know the existence or quality of any evidence since he hasn't been charged. they did confirm that s.l.e.d. has said they will charge him with the murder but they have not shared any evidence with them. >> if the state does bring murder charges, is it clear what motive they would allege? >> reporter: it's quite unclear, anderson. there are a lot of questions about the motive and it is really still a mystery. when i spoke to his lawyers today, they described his relationship with his wife maggie as a loving relationship.
the lawyers also told me that maggie did not have any life insurance so it seems as though that could not have been a motive. she did leave all of her property to him. we had a look at her will so all of her property did go to alex murdaugh. he is looking to renounce his interests in her estate and let it go to his only surviving son buster. perhaps that wasn't a motive either. if he is indicted, anderson, he will remain in jail. he's there facing many charges for financial crimes and he has not been able to make that $7 million bond. so he will remain in jail and we should know sometime tomorrow afternoon if the grand jury does indict him in south carolina. to texas where they are looking into the deadly school shooting in uvalde plans to meet with the victim's families. seven weeks after the massacres, the families of the 19 children and 2 teachers are still demanding answers why it took more than an hour for law
enforcement to storm the room. what is the latest into the investigations of the shooting? >> they're still ongoing, anderson. officials say we don't have a complete picture. yes, we have the video that's been leaked and is out there now, but there is still -- think about this, anderson. there is still a lot of video we haven't seen, there is audio transmissions, there is communications between just the cops talking in the hallway that could also explain a lot. there's other angles inside that hallway that we have not seen yet. all of that is still being tightly held and really right now from this video we're only getting one perspective, right? it's horrific to see but there are other perspectives that i'm told are going to answer a lot of questions and there are people certainly pushing to have that released. we still don't have a lot of answers to many of the questions and the investigations, as far as we know, are still ongoing,
anderson, with the district attorney, the texas department of public safety and of course the legislators who are expected to release their findings this weekend. >> this briefing that's supposed to happen this weekend by law enforcement to the families who have been obviously waiting and deserve answers, do we know how that's going to happen and when the report might be made public? >> reporter: right, anderson. that's going to be the texas legislators. that's going to happen on sunday. that was the committee that was formed by the state representatives. they formed this committee, three of them. they've been interviewing police officers, they have been interviewing the former school police chief, pete arandondo. they've interviewed the mayor and other individuals. all of those findings are supposed to be made public over the weekend. the family is going to have access to that information. they're going to bring them in fairly early and then they're going to spend the afternoon taking questions from the family members. it's going to be in private. the family members are going to
get to see the video sadly again, the right way this time, and then at some point those officials, texas legislators as well as city officials are going to have a press conference and we're going to be able to ask questions. still, anderson, despite all of this that's going to happen in the next days and over the weekend, there are still so many unanswered questions. there is still a lot of information that we're fighting and trying to get. >> appreciate it. thank you. going to speak with our favorite spacex morer, william shatner with the breathtaking images from the james hubble telescope. we'll be right back.
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new stars, interaction of galaxies and providing new information about black holes. we're going to talk to william shatner. before i bring him on, one of the last times i spoke with him he had landed from a brief visit from space. here's what he had to say. >> you look down, blue down there, and the black up there and it's -- it's just -- there is mother earth. comfort. there is -- is there death? i don't know. is that death? is that the way death is? and it's gone! jesus. it was so moving. what you have given me is the most profound experience i can imagine. i'm so filled with emotion about what just happened. i -- i just -- it's extraordinary. extraordinary.
i hope i never recover from this. i hope that i can maintain what i feel now. i don't want to lose it. >> and with me now, actor, author, spoken word poet, singer, william shatner. bill, it's great to have you back. i'm wondering looking at that, have you been able to hold on to that feeling since returning to space? >> so much so, anderson. so much so. we -- my team wrote a song called so fragile, so blue. i was entertaining for an hour at the kennedy center a couple of months ago and we performed numerous songs, but among them was "so fragile, so blue" which is the keynote song about that very experience. a phrase i hope i never forget. and why was i crying? why was i weeping uncontrollably and i had to sit down and figure it out?
i was in grief for what we've done to the earth. i know we're losing the earth. you know, as everybody knows. we're on the brink of terrible things unless we do something like now, it'll be too late and our -- your 5-month-old child will be suffering the worst of will be suffering the worst of it. i'll get out first and with your gray hair, you'll be next. >> and we're going to stick it to the next generation. >> your little boy will be suffering. i realize that was my -- the reason for this grief. and i talk about it and i entertain about it. but -- excuse me. >> when you see these breathtaking images of our universe -- >> but that's exactly the phrase, isn't it, breathtaking. here's what's breathtaking to me. 20 years ago, about, this web telescope idea came to somebody,
and they put it together with billions of dollars and overruns because as time went on, things improved. so, what they thought was working 20 years ago, 20 years later, they have new equipment. so, you can see how complex it is. and finally, they fired off -- apparently 350 things have to go wrong -- go right. and any one of them doesn't happen, the mission is scrapped, $10 billion. it goes to an eddie in the gravitational flow. all i know is that learning to kayak, you learn as the stream goes this way, there's an eddie of water going this way. so, native americans paddling the canoe would go to these eddies. apparently that's the same thing in gravity. the eddie, where they parked the webb telescope so gravitational pull would be at a minimum. now, the whole thing is aimed at
gathering knowledge. the magic of human beings sending up these complex, expansive things that with the money people would say, why don't you spend it on x, y, and z? this is the search for pure knowledge. what drives us to kill and maim and then drives us to look for knowledge that has no direct meaning except what is the universe made of? how does it work? and where does the universe go? >> i also -- i feel -- by the way, i feel like you and i are having one of those conversations you have very late at night after a long night out. maybe we're in a pickup truck looking up at the stars. >> well, i'm talking to a guy in korea. it's late at night there, so maybe we are. >> but i look at these images, and i've tried to read about this stuff. i'm just not smart enough to understand even what i'm looking at.
nasa has said that this telescope can look backwards billions of years practically to the big bang. i cannot wrap my head around the idea that we're seeing galaxies and stars being born. >> no -- yes, we're seeing them being born. but they've long since been born and probably died. >> yes. >> here's the mystery, one of the great mysteries. so, this photon of light hits our retina and is 13.8 or more billion light years old. in all that time, which is billions of years, that thing that is -- that object that is shedding that light is long gone. >> right. >> it's -- it's gone. when our telescopes look back, are they looking back at the late 13 point 8 or the beginning of the 13.8. >> i don't know. i don't know.
>> exactly. >> is the thing. >> so, we need people on this program to tell us -- >> right. but we only have you and me. we could have had neil degrasse tyson, but i wanted you. i love neil degrasse tyson, but i wanted to talk to you. >> because the more you know, the less you know. and you know so much, so little we know. >> yes! >> where did those -- where did those constellations go? where did they go? >> yeah. the other -- okay. here's what just blows my mind. they said the universe is endless. what does that mean? how can it be endless? how can it just keep going? >> see, that's the brain -- that's the brain that came out of the tree and is looking for nuts and fruit. that's our tree. we're looking for, where did it go. >> yes. >> it's gone. it's gone into endless space. >> i don't understand. >> we can't imagine.
>> i don't understand. >> it is -- it's -- that's -- but that's it, see? >> i like that i don't understand. >> you're saying you don't understand. >> i like that we live -- for all the fear about what lies ahead, i like that there are -- it's like religion. i like that there are these mysteries that we cannot explain -- >> why don't you use the phrase -- why don't you use the phrase, it's unexplained. >> oh. it ties -- it ties in. >> that ties in with my show. >> you have a new show on netflix. >> no, it's an old show. >> it popped up in my algorithm. >> it's so good and popular. my new book, "boldly go," which is coming out in october deals with -- >> what's the new book called? >> it's incredible. "boldly go," and boldly go with knowledge. boldly go with vibration. >> i'm intrigued, bill. >> of course. that's the object.
>> well, listen, when the book comes out, i know you probably already have a whole line of people -- oprah is probably going to be first. >> i crossed my fingers you would ask me. >> gayle king is probably getting the second booking. i would love to have you even if i'm 20th in line. i would love to talk to you about your new book. >> you're on. we're booked. you and i are booked. we've got to be booked already. but going back for as long as time as we have -- >> 27 seconds. >> 20 seconds? >> yeah. that's what we have right now. >> the magic of this object that man made needs -- the whole world needs to be watching with awe and wonder what america and canada and the great britain -- >> it's extraordinary. and those folks at nasa, at jpl, are extraordinary. i know you've been out there a bunch of times. >> and canada. >> they're the best. they're just incredible. and thank goodness for them.
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[whistling] when you have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com the news continues. let's hand it other to laura coates and "cnn tonight." nice to see you. i am laura coates and this is "cnn tonight." we're seven hearings in and we're going into a great deal of alleged election interference, the president's refusal to accept his defeat at the polls,