tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN July 15, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT
january 6th. new reports on the question of lost or erased secret service texts. gentleman, thanks for joining, good evening. evan, i am going to start with you for the reporting. i am going to talk to you about this police officer backing up casey hutchinson's testimony. what do we know? >> it could be really important testimony from someone that was there that day. this is a metropolitan police officer who was part of the motorcade and who has now given an interview to the january 6th committee. this is reporting. what they are telling us is that essentially the police officer was able to corroborate some of what cassidy hutchinson provided testimony to. there has been a lot of push
back from some of the people in secret service, some on pack ground, some of it on record claiming there was some or parts of what she was saying there was this altercation that the president, the former president reached for the steering wheel and that he actually pushed the lead secret service agent who was there to protect him when they tried to tell him he could not go to the rally. some of that obviously is very, very important testimony. and so this police officer who apparently was there corroborating some parts of that testimony, don. >> i want your viewing to know, i want to remember exactly what hutchinson told the commit bethat incident. here it is. >> the president said something to the effect of i am the effing president, take me up to the capitol now, to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing.
the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, stir you need to take your hand off of the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his freehand to lunge towards bobby engel. when mr. renando recounted the story to me he pointed towards his clavicals. >> secret service pushing back saying the agents involved would testify and deny it. but they haven't. so, how does all of this look now to you? >> well, it looked at -- cassidy hutchinson's testimony stands as of now unrebutted. circulating widely in the metropolitan police department and the secret service and in the reporting today it is great
reporting that shows, you know, it is consistent with what cassidy hutchinson said. it is more important to take a step back and to remember that whether or not trump actually lunged at a secret service agent and if he tried to grab at the steering wheel is not the point. the point is he wanted to go. he was insist ant ongoing up to capitol hill and no one, not even the behind-the-scenes whisperers at the secret service who do not seem to be ready to offer up a sworn testimony not even they can attest that. that is the fact, that is the fact that matters and that is what all of the evidence is pointing to. >> more information about the secret service, evan, responding to reporting that they deleted text messages from january 5th and 6th? give us the reporting. >> the department of homeland
security department that oversees secret service told congress that it was doing doing an investigation into what happened and the secret service's handling of it. they said there were key messages, text messages from january 5th and 6th that were deleted. now, the secret service apparently was doing some kind of change over of their phones and as a result of that those messages were deleted. the secret service is pushing back on that. they were saying they were not requested by the inspector general until february of 2021, well after they begun the change over. i will read you just a part of the message. pushing back strongly against what the inspector general said. they are saying that the secret service deleted text messages following a request that is false, in fact, the secret service has been cooperating with the oig in
every respect if it is in interviews, documents, e- mails or text. according to the secret service they provided 800,000 text messages or e-mails, rather, and other documents that the inspector general requested. obviously there are still a lot of questions about exactly what happened here. the importance of this, obviously, the story that we were just talking about on january 6th, you know, it would be important for the investigators to see it t is not just witnesses coming in now, it would be good to see if it backs up the stories. >> in that statement, saying that none of the text messages the committee wanted were lost. there is nothing going on. does that make sense to you?
>> it is too early to tell. they seem to be talking passed each other. careful look at the letter from the inspector general and a look at the statement from the secret service. the ig is saying that there were materials from january 5th and 6th that were lost. what the secret service is saying none ever the things that you would ask for that is relevant was lost. so, those two statements could be both true but we just don't know whether or not they are being contradicting each other or talking passed each other. the ultimate question is, how does the secret service know that any materials may have been lost that were generated on january 5th and 6th in 2021 are not relevant. a lot of questions here. it takes a lot of digging to sort of get to the issue of whether or not anything bad happened here and if it matters. >> to be continued as we get
more information as it is investigated. thank you, george, thank you, evan, i appreciate it. now, we are talk to the author of the up coming book "and there was light: abraham lincoln and the american struggle". >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. they are revealing damning evidence about the president and his enablers and those who were willing to stop joe biden from taking office. these are the hallmarks of our nation, how big of a threat is american democracy under at this moment? >> we are in the midst of an unfolding crisis, i think. beyond the hearings. we have this crisis of trust in the capacity of american democracy to continue to, as lincoln would say, long endure. and, it is not being driven by
both sides. just put that to the side. it is being driven by a hard core, right wing that has moved to more or less of the mainstream of the republican party. and we simply don't have, at the moment, two functioning parties under the constitutional structure. and that is what the constitutional structure requires. >> john -- i made that point this morning on our morning show and you and i have been talking about this. i have been saying the same thing for awhile now. why is it all of a sudden that people are shocked or upset or surprised at where the gop is moving and what is happening with the extremism coming from that party or it is being co-opted by extremists, why is it shock something it is the truth? >> it is the truth. i think january 6th changed
just about everything. before january 6th and this might make some liberal people unhappy, but before january 6th trump and his world was somewhat recognizable in terms of american history. right? it was joe mccarthy, it was george wallace, on a bigger scale. you could identify it, right? recognizable, sometimes i happening of it as remember the old charlie brown cartoons where the kids all talk to each other but the parents and the adults all went wonk, wonk? >> right. >> it went from you could understand the 2015 to really i would say the middle of 2020. you could see that, you could fight against it, you could be disenchanted by it, you could be just repelled by it. but you knew what it was. a mob at the capitol trying to
assassinate leaders, trying to overturn a duly constituted election was of a different, not just degree but a different kind. and the one thing that i would say, this will be hugely important, i believe as we try to keep the experiment going, is from the bible, right, the prodical son. going over one sheep even though you have 99 and one went a stray. people need a way back. republicans that are outraged by what they are learning need to know there is a place for them. they need to acknowledge what has happened, without that they are going to continue to live in a fantasy world and not be a part of it. one thing i am so impressed by
in terms of the overall debate for those defending the constitution right now is that it is kind of a joe friday thing. charlie brown and joe friday, you can tell i am really, really old. it is pretty much the facts, right? here is what happened. >> right. >> here is what the president said. here is what his people wanted to do. and, the great question and this goes to something you and i talked about a lot, the great question is, if facts are not enough, if the truth of what has happened and what led to january 6th is not enough to get enough people who are willing to follow this authoritarian, perhaps we are not a democracy, heck of a run, it has been imperfect but
could always be amended or reform or adjustment. but there is nothing guaranteed about this. to go to your first question, what i think is at stake is the durability of a democratic experiment. if we break america, if we break america, we are not getting it back. >> right. yeah. >> you are right on. i could end the segment right now. that makes my next question all the more important, this is what the new york magazine is reporting that trump 2024 announcement is a matter of when not if. i am not sure how surprising that is. he has been leaning that way. we all lived through the presidency, living through the aftermath. what would it do for the country to actively campaigning for the next two years? >> i have been wrong about president trump from the beginning -- [ laughter ] -- take it for what it is worth. the people who think that somehow he is not going to run it is almost
as though it is a rip van winkel problem, right? if you are consumed by narcissism what are you going to do? you are going to do it again, he is going to run again. he does not think he lost the last time or he has convinced himself not that he did not lose but that he should win. that is the difference, right? i think that it is -- if anything here is a positive thought -- if anything it will remind people who may or may not be happy with the way things are unfolding with the administration it is going to remind people that presidential politics is not a referendum, no one ever came to the country and said "do you want donald trump to be president?" do you want donald trump or secretary clinton. then in 2020 it was not do you want president biden or do you want
joe biden or do you want trump. a comparative question. so, having trump even more visible than he is may remind people of why he was sent back to florida. and so to some extent trump may be his own worst enemy or at least we can hope. thank you, sir, be well. >> thank you, you too. conservatives putting out a report saying the 2020 election was lost not stolen. rebutting every single claim made in court by team trump. we will talk to two of them, next he's feeling it. yep, them too. it's an invigorating rush... ...zapping millions of germs in seconds. for that one-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves you feeling... ahhhhhhh listerine. feel the whoa!
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election lies, the group including lawyers and judges, rebutting his claims that the 2020 election was stolen. looking at more than 60 court cases filed by team trump in six battleground states. the report found and i quote here, there is absolutely no evidence of fraud in the 2020 presidential election on the magnitude necessary to shift the result in any state, let alone the nation as a whole. in fact, there was no fraud that changed the outcome in even a single precinct. two of the people behind the report join me now. former circuit judge for the u.s. court of appeals for the 10th circuit, michael mcconnell and former counsel to the republican committees, ben gensburg.
thank you for joining us. i am so glad you are both here. ben, i will start with you, the report found no signs of fraud, not a single shred, period. why did you and your conservative colleagues find it so important to issue this report? >> we heard what donald trump said in the election. those are extremely serious charges that our elections don't work. if in fact there was any evidence behind them then the system needs to be fixed. but, if there is no evidence behind it, that needs to be said because of the corrosive effect that the allegations he was making is having on the democracy. that is why we undertook the thorough report. >> michael, you looked at more than 60 cases. 20 were dismissed before a hear, 30 were dropped by trump and his supporters, 30 had a hearing and lost, yet republicans continue to push his election lie, why?
what is going on here? >> i can only think that people did not look into it. trump was the president of the united states, they assume he and his supporters are telling the truth. it is really essential for us to think for ourselves and to actually look for actual evidence. and not simply to buy the claims of ad advocates in the system. >> even before this report his allies knew allegations were baseless, listen to this. >> made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff which i told the president it was >> there was a question in my mind and a real concern, particularly after the attorney
general that reached the conclusion that there was not sufficient election fraud to change the outcome of the election when other people kept suggesting that there was the answer is, what is it? and, at some point you have to put up or shut up. that was my view. >> okay. at some point you have to put up or shut up. these people were under oath here. >> despite his own allies saying it is bs, they are believing trump is the winner, 60% believe he is the legitimate winner, trump, right? is there anything at this point that will convince his supporters that he lost? >> well, we hope that looking at the facts behind his cases will. the testimony of steven ayers before the committee, the january 6th committee last tuesday in which he said that he was arrested for being in the capitol.
he told the committee, you know, if i had realized when i went into the capitol that there was no evidence behind the allegation i never would have been there. and when i step back and got beyond my social media filters he realized there was nothing there. we hope that this report which does look at every -- each of the 107 counts made in the 64 cases filed by trump and his supporters, we hope that this will help convince people that there is no there there. >> is it a problem getting the right information for people that are not exposed to it? >> well, it is partially that. it is partially the responsibility of elected officials. it is partially the responsibility of voters when they go to the polls this year. there is no one single answer to this problem. but we hope that this report will be
another piece of evidence that people can use to see the truth. >> michael, the consequences, what consequences could we see to our democracy if these election lies are not put to bed? >> well, it certainly is not good for democracy, not good for the nation. this is, after all, a country that is built upon trust t is built upon the idea of two legitimate political parties that engage in putting policies before the american people. the other side is not an enemy. but i also am not an alarmist about all of this. i think one of the most important things to see in what happened this year is just how strong our institutions were that, you know, not a single member of president trump's white house counsel staff believed these. the department of justice
lawyers did not believe this. not a single state legislature did not. not anyone bought it. our guardrails were tested but they held that is important to remember. >> thank you very much for that michael, thank you, ben, an excellent report, again. nothing found as it comes to the election lies. >> appreciate you both joining us, have a good evening. in less than four months georgia voters will decide who represents them in the senate and the race is drawing national attention. not the kind the gop wants m,
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so, things people are talking about, pennsylvania and georgia. many in the gop worried about walker's recent missteps and if that spells trouble and they desperately need to flip. >> thank you, thank you, thank you. in battleground georgia, concerns about walker's candidate performance. >> since we don't control air, our good air floated over to china, when china gives out good air their bad air has to move so it moves over to our good airspace. and now we have to clean that
back up. >> to gun legislation. >> supporting new gun laws? >> what i like to do is -- >> miscues like those and a disclosure he fathered three children he has not spoken about publicly sparked questions about his ability to compete. >> georgia senate race this november is yet, again, probably going to be the deciding factor in control of the u.s. senate and with a volatile national environment for definites. >> warnock has questioned his preparedness for office in several ads.
>> is herscehel walker prepared to lead georgia. >> announcing thedition of several top operatives. boosted by the endorsement of former president trump. >> herschel has been one of the greatest athletes in america. he will go down also as one of the greatest senators in america. >> well, hello, atlanta, georgia. >> but warnock is facing his own challenges. >> some of the things we are seeing nationally. issues with inflation and gas prices and kind of the direction of joe biden as president it is trickling down into georgia voters even ones that are democrats, even ones that may like warnock. there is a feeling that they are tied to the hip. that republicans are trying to push. >> that is a message outside groups supporter walker are
reinforcing on tv. >> tell senator warnock to stop inflation. >> reporter: a poll says 33% of georgia voters approve of biden's performance, a larger share, 49% approve of the job that warnock is doing, he is out pacing walker in fund-raising, hauling in more than $17 million in the second quarter of 2022 compared to $6 million for his gop rival. both democrats and republicans in the state told us they believe this race really could go either way. and that is very clear from how the parties are spending in georgia. we are still four months away from this election and there is already nearly $60 million going into ads in the state. don? >> christian, thank you very much, appreciate that. joining us now ron brownstein, wow. >> oh,. >> that is a lot of dough. >> that is a lot of money. >> let's put up that poll
again. he is pulling in more money than walker. warnock is up 10 points. >> that is probably too high. >> there a new poll out today, arp is doing polling in battleground states done by the polesters for trump and biden, they had him up three today. but most importantly they had warnock up three when biden's approval is only 34% in the state. that is remarkable. he is running 16 points ahead of where biden is. we have seen very little of that in the last couple of decades. candidates levitate above. >> he has all of the missteps,
a gaffe after gaffe, is it drowning out his opponent? >> no, warnock has a vivid presence, people that run and study elections talk about over hour lifetime they are more parliamentary. meaning with party they want in control not the individual. walker is testing the maximum extent of that. he is, i think, there have been few candidates that ever raised as many doubts about their own qualifications for the job. he is in the ball game because georgia is a tipping-point state. a close state, voters are unhappy with the way things are going in the country. even amid all of that, in this poll today warnock is winning one quarter of the voters that disapprove of joe biden. go back to 2018, there was no
more than roughly 10 or 11% in any state of voters that disapproved of trump that said they were going to vote for the republican candidate and he is winning 24% at the moment. by the way, fetterman is similar to that in another poll that was done in pennsylvania. the question is, can they separate themselves from what is very real disenchantment with biden. >> speaking of walker, he still got 93% of the republican vote in georgia. >> right. it could be a good run for republicans. >> that is his only chance. it is hard to imagine there are voters looking at the candidates and degree of fluency on the issues and say walker is personally good for the job. that is saying we don't want
mcconnell or schumer to be the leader and setting the agenda. that is the problem, that is why people describe senate elections are more about the party and less about the person. more parliamentary. there are exceptions. 2012, if you remember, mckaskel won in missouri. what we are seeing right now in a number of the states in wisconsin, pennsylvania, georgia, republicans are only winning a little over 70% of the voters who say they disapprove of biden. okay. that is way below. democrats sustain that all of the way through? that will be a challenge. there is a pathway, a plausible narrative that is developing that could allow the democrats to
hold the senate even if they do poorly in the house. >> stay tuned. >> stay tuned. >> thank you. >> good to see you. >> tiger woods back at the british open and he has choice words for players playing in the saudi-backed liv series. what is he saying? that is next in three seconds, fifteen couples will share a perfect moment. is that? oh wow! but we got to sell our houses! well, almost perfect. my place is too small; your place is too far. selling them means repairs, listings, cleanings. what's the market even like? this could take like... forever! or... more like days. skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. done. yes! oh yes. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house.
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golf great, tiger woods, playing the british open and blasting the saudi-backed liv series. that series is financed by the fund chaired by saudi crown prince bin salman. he denied involvement in the journalist murder. to discus that is bob, bob, good to see you. >> in person, yes. >> important issues we are talking about. this is what tiger woods is saying. >> i disagree with it. i think that what they have done, they turned their back on what has allowed them to get to this position.
>> break it down for us. i mean, it seems like he is talking about loyalty to pga. this controversy around liv is bigger than that. >> yes, just talking about golf, tradition, tiger and many other prominent players believe this is a threat to the traditions of golf and that it is not competitive enough because they play only 54 holes, 48-man fields, no cuts. they are guaranteed money from it. and a number of players like phil mickelson and johnson and others have gotten large up front money into the 100s of millions of dollars, pga tour can not compete with that on the financial basis and the saudi family has unlimited funds. hais that is like a free agency in sports. who is underwriting this? the september 11th families are incensed today because the liv tour has announced
that they will play an event at the bedminister course, trump's course, at the end of this month and the final event of this season will be at his course in miami in october. >> and it is -- what do you make of that? what do you think of the timing here. >> talking about funds and being a candidate. >> we know he is all about evening scores, after comments he made in 2016 the pga tour pulled an event from the durrell course. they pulled that, donald trump does not forget that sort of thing easily. so, this is a chance,
obviously, he is obsessed with golf, this is a chance to gain some measure of revenge. but at what cost? we can discus phil mickelson has done or whatever, this is a former president of the united states that has ambitions, yet again, to be the president of the united states. the saudis have contributed $2 billion to a business venture run by jarad kushner. 700 of those that parishes were from new jersey, many of them around people working in the financial district in the twin towers, this is a former president of the united states, maybe i am outside of my lane by saying this, but when you talk about -- leave policies aside -- you talk about somebody who told the gigantic lie about the election and now it is obvious
took specific steps to overturn a legitimate election, attack the pillars of democracy, a former president of the united states in bed and relishing being in bed with the people who very well, according to what information we are getting from released fbi files and from the state department there is reason to believe that they were responsible for financing and providing logistical help to the 19 terrorists who pulled off the september 11th attack. 15 of whom were saudis. this, those that continue to support him preversely think of themselves as patriots, i can not understand that. this is not a matter of conservative, liberal, whatever. what are we talking about here? >> yeah. >> has this country or a portion of this country lost its mind? [ laughter ] i think that is a rhetorical question, the answer is obvious. >> listen, we don't have all night to sort out how we feel about that and
just telling the attack about the attacks. i want to get this in before we go. britteny griner, back in court today with a hearing in moscow, still no verdict, the owner of the russian teammate testified on her behalf. tell us about what the testimony does for her? >> i don't know if it helps or not. she is a political prisoner. there are others, it is pretty obvious that their intention here is to make a statement, to thumb their noses at the united states. what she did was at worst a misdemeanor, it was foolish to run a risk knowing what country she was in to have some vaping cartridges in her luggage. she could face up to 10 years in prison. they already extended it by six month that is what we are led to believe. maybe they are looking for a
prisoner exchange. so, someone comes along and provides a character assessment she is a nice person, she helped russian basketball, her team excelled. she is showing good sportsmanship. do you think any of that matters to vladimir putin? >> especially with the war in ukraine. >> you are appealing to the better instincts to a regime and a person who bombs schools and hospitals and civilian targets? he is going to be swayed to britteny griner is a nice person. >> i like having you here. >> i like to get in trouble every now and then, it makes me feel alive. >> yes, late great john lewis said, good trouble. >> good trouble. >> you don't mind. >> i don't. >> thank you, don. >> we'll be right back. but your stomach doesn't. that disagreement ends right now. lactaid ice cream is the creamy, real ice cream you love
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hello and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the united states and around the world. i'm becky anderson live for you from jeddah in saudi arabia from where we are following president biden's trip to the middle east. >> and i'm christina macfarlane in for max foster here in london. just ahead on "cnn newsroom" -- >> i think any other president would have moved very quickly to try to prevent violence and blood shed in an a
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