tv State of the Union With Jake Tapper and Dana Bash CNN September 18, 2022 9:00am-10:00am PDT
rare for an american president and british monarch to speak, conveys he condolences. that's the focus of his visit here. tomorrow he will be representing the united states at this funeral. already a very small contingency from the united states that is coming, just president biden and first lady jill biden that were invited to come tomorrow. that would about his two-day visit, paying tribute to the queen. he first met the queen back in 1982, when he was a senator from delaware. he was on a congressional visit. he last saw her as president, when she visited g-7 leaders, hosted them when they were visiting the cornish coast, and she hosted them for tea at windsor castle. you've heard this from him as well as former presidents, she
reminded them of her mother or grandmother. talking about how she had these political questions, questioning insights into what was going on with china, russia, talked about their conversations they had the last time she saw the queen in person. >> max, in addition to your excellent reporting on the royals, you're also a subject. you personally paid your respect to the queen's casket earlier today. if you don't mind stepping outside of your role as a journalist, just telling was that experience was like, and what the mood was like inside westminster hall. >> i wanted to get a sense of what it would be like for president biden appearing there. i was there as a member of the media. i wanted to say that's correct because i didn't queue up. there were very long queues. i didn't jump the queue. it was a media opportunity. i didn't go up to the casket. i was at a distance looking at other people paying their respects.
i just wanted to say, the atmosphere, tiffs extraordinary. it has a stone floor. normally it's very echoey and noisy, but they've got this -- if you look there, you can see carpets on either side, people walking on the carpets, so its utterly silent. it's quite eerie. people are queued up for 10, 15 hours, and they come into this spectacular room, it looks like a painting, and they're struck by it. they go up to the coffin, with three, four seconds to curtsy and moved on. a loot of them were there to thank her as monarch, but a lot of them connecting somehow with the spirituality of the moment. it's a quite profound place to
be. i think president biden would have felt that. >> just to clarify, it's rare for someone to lie in state in westminster, i believe. in the u.s. it happens much more often in the congress. is that right, though? it doesn't happen every time there's a death of a former prime minister or a monarch. >> no. state funerals are only for monarchs. the one exception was for winston churchill. the queen's mother did lie in state, but it wasn't a full ceremonial like this. it's an extremely rare honor. there's so much that goes into it. it's not something you can, of course, do, and it certainty isn't done for prime ministers. there's devil levels. there's a state funeral, a sermonian funeral. that's what diana had, for example, what prince philip had. >> kate, the leaders are nearly
200 countries are coming to london to pay their respects. obviously that underlying her importance as a global figure. >> yes, the queen was such a global figure. she travelled to 120 kungs, a million miles, 42 times around the world. so many tributes have stressed her work on the world stage. for her core onation we saw 130 heads of state, now we're seeing 200 estimates. this is really a great global meeting around the world, reflecting both her efforts on the world stage and how many lives she toughed. i think this is an end of the era, this great moment that max is talking about. we've only had four in the 20th century. now, this is the first in the 21st century.
what a great moment we are witnesses. >> kaitlan, president biden and the first lady will represent the united states at the ceremonies. the other living former presidents were not invited to the events. >> reporter: right. that's not any kind of message that the royal family is sending. it's simply because of limits. so many world leaders, so many dignitaries, ambassadors that have descended upon london for the funeral. i was told that they extended the invitation to the president of the united states, he brings a plus one. that is obviously the first lady, jill biden. while the president has other aides accompanies him, it's a much smaller group, and they will -- that's a level of the space restrictions. that's not a surprise to you as
officials. this is a funeral long in the works, so they did have insights into what the planning was going to look like. it also speaks to the level of security here on the ground, which is enormous, frankly, because of so many world leaders being here, getting them to and from the funeral. tip wale they world leaders would take helicopters. that's not what you're seeing. it speaks to the level of planning. you won't see any other former u.s. presidents here, no president trump or president obama or bush or carter. >> we are waiting for president biden to sign that condolence book. we'll bring you that moment when it happens. now an issue dominating here in the united states. blue state leaders are scrambling to take care of the
a150i8 limb seekers shipped up north without warning. florida's governor says this is just the beginning, and he will use, quote, every penny to relocate more migrants out of florida, as he and governor abbott say it's time for blue states to share their burden. joining me is the mayor of new york city, democrat eric adams. mr. mayor, thanks so much for joining us. more than 11,000 asylum-seekers passed through new york's shelter system since may including roughly 2,500 bused to new york from texas. you have warned that new york is, quote, nearing its breaking point. you've talked about maybe bringing cruise ships to temporarily shelter these migrants. what help do you need from president biden and the federal government right now that you aren't already getting, and how much longer can new york continue without more resources? >> well, we should be clear that
this is, as stated, a humanitarian crisis created by human hands. it is an all-hands-on-deck moment where we're all supposed to come together and coordinate. coordination during a crisis is something we must do together. that's the federal government. that's also the governor of the state of texas as well as the governor of the state of florida. we should not be really treating other cities and municipalities in the manner we're witnessing now. we need resources for housing, resources to make sure that we can properly give people the medical care -- all the basic necessities you would give new arrivals that enter a city. >> how long until you run out of resources for these migrants? >> well, we're not. we're going to follow the law as well as our moral obligation and responsibilities. it's going to be challenging. we're experiencing the challenges in doing so.
but we're obligated by law here in the city of new york. as has been mentioned over and over again, this is a right-to-shelter city. we're going to fulfill our obligations. >> what's your message to governor abbott and governor desantis about the migrants they shipped to new york and other blue state areas? >> well, i think it's a message for the entire country. these are two governors who are hiding up some of the actions they've done around gun control which is really a proliferating our country with guns. it's what they did with the women's right to choose. you see, this is their way of covering up what many people have been really concerned about, the erosions of basic human rights. we're saying crisis calls for coordination. we received a minimum of six buses early this morning. over 11,000 individuals,
asylum seeking migrants have come to the city already. it is time for us to coordinate this humanitarian crisis that our country is facing. >> you're struggling to process the 2,500 migrants sent to you from texas. meanwhile, the el paso sector of the border seeing an average of 1,700 migrants crossing every single day, a record 1.9 million migrants apprehended on the southwest border this fiscal year alone. even if you think what these governors are doing is horrific, it seems like you agree this is a crisis that needs more attention from the biden administration. >> no. i believe it's a crisis that needs more coordination from our country. this is one country -- this is a country that's always been capable of handling those who are seeking to participate in american dream. that coordination should not only be on the federal level, the state level but even city to city. we reached out to the el paso
mayor as well as our team attempted to reach out to governor abbott. they refused to do any formal coordination. they think the politics of treating people in an inhumane manner to cover up, i believe, what they've done around human rights, the erosion of it the last few years is what they believe is the best way to handle it. i just disagree. >> would you like to see president biden and democrats in congress make immigration reform a priority using their political capital to finally fix this problem? there hasn't been, as you know, any major immigration reform since the reagan years. >> i reached out and traveled to washington, d.c. and had great conversations with the white house as well as with senator schumer, senator gillibrand and other lawmakers to discuss this issue. i think one of the most important parts that we should move forward is to allow those new arrivals to be able to work. they came here to pursue the
american dream. i don't think it really is logical to allow people to be here for months without the ability to seek employment, particularly during a time when we are seeking employees on various sectors in our city. >> we're in the middle of a worker shortage right now, as i don't need to tell you. it's a big problem all over the country. new york's one of the only cities in the united states with a right-to-shelter law. meaning anyone seeking a place to stay must be given one. you said this week because of this, quote, new and unforeseen reality, new york's prior practices must be reassessed, unquote. are you considering changing new york's right-to-shelter law? >> no, not at all. we're not considering it. we don't believe we should change the right-to-shelter law. what needs to be looked at is
the actual practices. i'm sure 40 years ago when this law was put into place no one thought that we would receive 11,000 -- over 11,000 migrants or asylum-seekers. so it's the practices in parts of it that we want to reexamine to make sure we can actually carry out an influx. that law was put in place for the individuals who were living in new york and needed shelter under emergency situation. this is a humanitarian crisis and it needs to be viewed that way. >> where are you going to put up all these individuals who need shelters if you're running out of pace? >> we're consistently pivoting and shifting to make sure we can accommodate. we opened 23 emergency shelters. we had a smooth transition of close to 1,500 students that moved into our educational facilities. we're going to continue to shift our resources to whatever locations we have from the
emergency hotels or the emergency shelter locations. we are used to adjusting. we did it during covid. we did it during 9/11. this is a city that clearly understands how to stand up and operate according to the crises that are in front of us. >> many of the migrants flown to martha's vineyard by florida governor ron desantis say they were falsely told that jobs and housing would be waiting for them when they arrived. were any of the migrants that have arrived in new york, have they been similarly misled? >> yes, they have been. it's really unfortunate when you watch government misrepresent where you're sending people. in some cases we had those that were covid positive on the buses with individuals who were dehydrated, didn't have proper food. some were even tagged like you would tag an animal. it's unfortunate that a country known for humanitarian actions, this is a blight on our entire country. again, it falls in line with
some of the inhumane and some of the changes that you're seeing and some of the basic laws, women's right to choose and gun reform in this country, coming from particular locations like desantis and abbott. when one wants to travel to another location and forced to go to new york city, these are the things that we have witnessed based on our preliminary interviews and conversations with those migrant seekers and asylum-seekers. right now, we see first lady jill biden and president joe biden signing the condolence book, the official condolence book for her majesty, queen elizabeth ii at lancaster house. we are having some problems with the pool signal, which does freeze up every now and then the apologies for that, but what they are doing is part of the tradition of a major state
funeral such as this. previously president biden signed the condolence book at the british embassy in washington, d.c. he wrote in that book, kaitlan collins, he bronc at the embassy -- the american people mourn today for people in the uk and throughout the commonwealth. she led with enduring strength and. jill and i will never remember meeting her. i suspect he will probably write something similar in this condolence book. >> reporter: jake, that was his first stop he made, to pay his respects after she passed. they lowered the flags at other federal buildings, something that remained several days after that, until her funeral tomorrow. that was part of paying respects. now he and the first lady are signing the condolence book in
london. then they'll go to a reception hosted by king charles. i think what people have reflected on is this long-standing relationship she had with so many u.s. presidents. there's very few figures that can say have me 14 presidents in total, with the exception of lyndon b. johnson. whether she was hosting them or they were hosting her at the white house and the united states, or at their homes. she rode horses with them. she went to baltimore orioles games with them. all these memories with the american presidents. a lot of them talked about how clever she was, her witt, warmth, kindness, and a lot of them paying tribute to her. you know, when i was mentioning earlier that president biden remarked that she had inquired
about president xi of china and president putin of russia, it's something that bill clinton also said when he was recalling his meetings with the queen, talking about how she asked for his political insights. he was inquisitive about american politics. it's fascinating to look back at her relationship with so many different presidents. a lot of times they had awkward moments on how to act, whether they be republican or democrat, and it's remarkable to look back at the different interactions and meetings she had. >> max foster, as wore watching these images come in, tell me what we're -- just a brief overview of what we can expect for the funeral tomorrow. >> i think it will start early, because you've got so many, as kaitlan was saying, so many heads of state in town for this
moment. in that book we've been getting updates who have been signing it. just before president biden was the swiss president and palestinian prime minister, the somalian president, and endless presidents. we're not being given a list of people going to the funeral, but we think it's pretty much the full 200, with the plus-ones as well, apart from the putin and xi who are unable to come. you'll have a deep and meaningful service in westminster abbey, and the profession from westminster hall to westminster abbey, and a profound procession between westminster and admiralty arch? >> yes, the wellington average,
with about 100 sailors pulling the coughent, and she will be interred. we woven see exactly where she's buried, but we will see the service. >> just to interrupt for one second, on the right side of your screen, all sources of world leaders coming to pay their respects at buckingham palace. we've been seeing that for hours and hours. marks, sorry to president. >> the irish president is there, for example. they're also some other foreign dignitaries invited. we think this is, for modern times, at least, the biggest gathering of heads of state. we can't think of a time with more heads of state gathered in one particular event.
to be a fly on the wall in there, i can see there some monarchs at well from europe. we're only getting the arrivals live. we are going to get some images inside, but we're not entirely sure. it's very closed event, but it's fascinating, isn't it? >> kate, you were saying 129 world leaders came for the coronation in 1953, and we're expecting a larger number than that for her funeral, both ball the world is smaller today, with ease of travel, but because of the figure she was, and all that she meant to so many people. >> the 70-year reign of the queen, crowned in 1953, and that was a great world moment, 129
world leaders, the greatest before had been her great-grandfather, with 70. really, the royal families there, related to queen elizabeth. all these presidents, all these prime ministers from all over the world. she only stopped doing foreign travel in 2012, in her 80s. up until then she was traveling frequently on state visits. she continued to host, but stopped the overseas travel, and really so many of these people have individual experience of her, they talked about her warmth, they talk about they had fun experiences with her. she rode horses with her, swapped recipes, and really, i think, it reflects how she had this great diplomatic role, but also she specialized in putting people at their ease. whether you were a new president
or president who had been in the job for many years, she saw it as her job to understand your country, research about your country, and really show what an interest she had in the world. i just don't think her like again. the absolute brilliance she had on the world stage, and she never expected that. she was born when air travel was an impossible thing. now she was traveling around the world. >> max, it's also true the british empire is different from 1952, 1953. right now we're seeing images of president biden walking into sign -- is this the condolence book at buckingham palace? let's listen in for a second as the president and first lady are there.
max, what i was saying before, obviously the you can is quite different today than it was in 1952, 1953 when the queen assumed the crown. it was once said the sun never sets on the empire, and that can no longer be said. it was a time of self-determination by colonies. >> the empire was collapsing, countries were gaining independence, one after another. one of the great's credits to the queen's reign is to managed
decline, as they call it, of the empire and reinvention will be the commonwealth. creating an independent associate of states, as she was head of the commonwealth. what was quite clever is it was no longer the empire, but she retained her global footprint, so she retained her global stat cu -- status. >> we've met with a lot of influential people, but the ones who stand out in your mind are those whose relationships and interaction with you are consist aren't with her reputation. when the queen had us to the castle for tea and we were joking crimp ets, she kept offering more, and i ate everything she put in front of me, but she was the same in person as her image -- decent,
honorable, and all about service. our hearts go out to the royal family, king charles and all the family. it's a loss that leaves a giant hole, and sometimes you think you'll never overcome it, but as i've told the king, she's going to with him every step of the way, every minute, every moment, and that's a reassuring notion. to all the people of england and the united kingdom, our hearts go out. you were fortunate to have had her for 70 years. we all we are. the world is better for her. >> reporter: why does she remind you of her mother? >> just because of the way she touched, when they leaned over. she had that look like, are you okay?
, and also make sure you do what you're supposed to do? >> reporter: what do you think she meant for the wider world? >> i think the american press has heard me say for a long time that i think the thing is -- maybe it's too much, excuse the expression, the irish of it, but it's about treating people with dignity. i talk about how my mother and father thought that everyone, no matter who they were, no matter their station, no matter where they were from, deserved to be treated with dignity. that's exactly what she communicated. just the way she walked by, just the way she acted. i think she gave a sense of maybe, above all, a notion of service. we all owe something. there's something within our capacity to do, to make not just the world better, but your neighborhood better, your
household better, your workplace better. that's what she communicated to me, anyway, and it was an monitor to meet her. an honor to meet her. thank you. which way are we good? >> we just heard president biden talking about his experience with queen elizabeth ii, about how she was the same person in private as she was in public, and dignity and service, and somebody asked the president about how the queen reminded him of his late mother, who died in 2010 at the age of 93. he talked about that as well, kaitlan. >> yeah she said she had a look about -- whenever they med, joe
biden for tea at windsor castle, and she said her look about, are you okay? but also, you needed to look like, maybe sure you were doing what you needed to be doing. they talked about how she had tea, but also she talked about how, when he met her, her in-person demeanor matched her reputation. she was decent, honorable, all about service. of course, that's what so much of the memories about her, jake, in the last week having about, have focused on what she was like, and that's somebody that biden has focused, how he's commemorated her loss, and talking about what that was like. she hosted them for tea privately. they met for quite some time. they talked about personal stories, about politics, and the world politics.
that was after she hosted g-7 leaders in that summit on the cornish coast, and why she reminded him of his mother. max foster, we should know that the last official time we saw the queen was when she greeted the brand-new prime minister liz truss. the queen passed away a couple days after that. she was a symbol of stability and consistency in the uk, and now the uk is at a time where and you have brand-new p.m., a brand-new monarch for the first time in recent memory. i interviewed prince challenge a few years ago on the balmoral estate about his relationship with the united states. she talked about visiting more than 20 times, and how he always
had a fond welcome when he went there. i think it would be interests to hearing his conversation tonight and would continue, and the queen was at the heart of that relationship, and the king i think will want to definitely continue that. i think president biden's invest is extremely important today, and his relationship with king charles as the first president of king charles' reign. we always talk about how churchill was the queen's first president. we'll talk about how biden was the king's first president as well. as you say, incredible time for the british nation to have lost both the prime minister and the monarch in a week, and we're all readjusting to this new period at the same time the economy is collapsing, but no one is talking about it, we're so focused on the funeral. so i think coming out of this week will be a big week of
adjustment, with what's happening into the winter. liz truss will have to get back on tvs and do her real day job, running the country. >> jake, you also saw president biden talking about his call with king charles, talking about loss. that's something that's defined major aspects of president biden's life. he lost his own mother, but also when he lost his wife and daughter. he talked about what he told king charles, which was saying, you know, despite the loss, she will still be with you every step of the way. it's rare for a u.s. president to have a phone conversation with a british monarch, as president biden did this week, but that was one of his first calls after she had passed. >> and, kate, queen elizabeth was able to keep the monarchy relevant to the 21st century even at a time that a lot of
people throughout the world and certainly in the u.s. are questioning whether or not the month knacky should continue. it's going to be a big challenge for king charles to keep the monarchy relevant, and prove its necessity. >> just to point out the king and queen of jordan are arriving at the palace. >> king charles as a difficult road ahead. there is been a huge outpouring of sympathy, his job is to convert that outpuerto rico of sympathy into support for his reign. his ratings weren't -- and there are difficult roads ahead. there's a potential heating problems, and how does a man who lives in palace with 775 rooms relate to that. also the monarchy itself, and
heads of state, they were a talking about opening the process of becoming republics. the prime minister of new zealand, she want new zealand will be a republic in her lifetime. these are the questions that king charles negotiates. i also see the commonwealth will change, and they see aspects as having its roots in empire, the exploitation of the empire, so great change ahead. i think they have great challenges, and the rocky road the uk is going through, and he has a lot on his plate. he doesn't have the person popularity his mother did. the question is whether he will manage to get to that. it's going to be tough. >> we're waiting right now to see president biden and the first lady biden as they come to
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welcome back to state of the union. we are live right now. we're waiting for president and first lady biden to arrive at a reception at buckingham palace. kaitlan collins, who is in the uk, along with other members of our panel, the president said he wants to maintain a close relationship with king charles. i assume we expect that to be similar to what we have seen in the past, and also it would be managed mainly with the prime minister, hliz truss, not with the month knack. >> there's two relationships to chart. he spoke this week with the king, and also the new british prime minister liz truss, who was just in office a few days before the queen passed.
tonight it will be king charles hosting president biden and first lady jill biden and other dignaries and heads of states who are visiting for the funeral. in just a matter of days, once president biden has returned to the united states, that's when he'll have the first meeting in person with the british prime minister. he had a call with her the day the queen passed. her health was being called into question, there were concerns. they had a call focused on ukraine when he had checked in with the new british prime minister. we are told they will not be meeting privately while president biden is here on the ground. they will meeting in new york when the world leaders gather there for the general assembly. you're right. it is two new relationships, but obviously the one with the queen has been a factor in every u.s. presidency since harry truman.
when queen elizabeth met harry truman, she was a princess at the time, but it's been fascinating to see how from presidency to presidency, and how quickly they changed, whether it be at the white house, or often she would visit them at their homes. so with the exception of lyndon b. johnson, that was the only president she did not meet. president biden recalling that phone call they had this week, when he conveyed his condolences, but also talked about the person loss, dealing with grief itself. >> max, as kaitlan notes, biden will be the first president to deal with -- we're seeing here is the prime minister liz truss, and her husband, walking in right now.
we are expecting president biden at any moment to do the same. this will be the first time that the u.s. president has dealt with a monarch who isn't queen elizabeth since harry truman in 1952. biden will also be dealing with the new prime minister liz truss. it's a somewhat uncertain era in the u.s./uk relationship. >> yeah, it's all up for redefinition. boris johnson was famously pro-american. he had an american passport for a long time. liz truss sees her position as a more united, and they very much play that down. she wants to reach out to countries like india, other nations around the world, so i think she's until a lot of pressure to maintain that
relationship. king charles is under pressure, which is why the queen also prioritized american presidents when it came to visits, also when she was visiting the united states as well. it's hugely important on the global stage and for bring to have a global standing. the president of france is arriving now. france is the other one as well. you will remember, jake, we talk about how liz truss said some discourteous things about macron. they put that behind them as well. we also saw before that, a lot of middle eastern monarchs arriving. they are absolute monarchs. they have a different time of monarchy and government than the united kingdom, but the queen always maintained relationships all the monarchs, even the
former king of greece. she would invite him to events. he doesn't have a country to preside over. he was desupposed years ago. >> and, kaitlan, as has been pointed out by historians and late-night comedians, both president biden and king charles have in common they spent their entire lives waiting for the big job, and they finally got the big job in their 70s, in the twilight of their years. >> it's a bit striking how similar those backgrounds ar e
but you are right, he wanted to say president years ago, but they do have a lot of similar in a sense, so it is remarkable. king charles is 73, president biden is 79, the two coming face-to-face tonight for the first time since king charles has become king charles, and with president biden in office, obviously. it is remarkable to see the through line in them and what that looks like as they're in these very new roles, charting this path forward. it's obviously the british prime minister that president biden will be having many conversations with when it comes not to just brexit, all of these conversations and big topics they have to discuss, but also the relationship with king challenge is significant as well. >> we are not expecting to see
vladimir putin. he was not invited because of the invasion of ukraine. we're going to squeeze in one more quick break here, and we'll be right back. relax from daily stress. plus, shoden ashwagandha for quality sleep. so i can wake up refreshed. neuriva think bigger. psst psst. [sfx: monster roaring and people screaming] allergies don't have to be scary. flonase sensimist stops your body from overreacting to allergens with a non-drowsy, ultra-lightweight mist. psst psst...flonase. all good!
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while we wait, we'll turn to politics. from an expected red wave to who knows what's going to happen with just over seven weeks until election day, the republican party is trying to recalibrate its message. so far they can't seem to agree on what the message should be. joining us from south dakota republican senator mike rounds. senator rounds, thanks so much for joining us. let me start with immigration. florida governor ron desantis flew planes of migrants from texas to martha's vineyard without any warning to local officials. i get the immigration is a mess and has needed reform for decades. these are people fleeing marxism in venezuela. many were falsely told there would be jobs and housing waiting for them when they arrived in massachusetts. do you support what abbott and desantis are doing? >> they're doing their best to try to send a message to the rest of the nation about the plight of those individuals that are coming from south of the border. you're talking about 3.4 million people just since the start of this biden administration that have crossed the border. they're coming into southern states.
what is a governor supposed to do? they're trying to send a message to the rest of the country that this is not acceptable, and that their states can't handle that type of an inflow. that's an equivalent of four times the population of my state of south dakota. jake, it's more than that. it's also everything else come across the border at the same time. we're 1200 miles away from the border in south dakota, yet the drug trafficking affects our state as well. our native american population, reservations have huge inflows of drug trafficking coming into our state, some of the heaviest poverty areas in the country. it's affecting the states but the administration isn't doing anything about it. >> as i said, this immigration crisis has been going on literally for decades. there hasn't been a major immigration bill since ronald reagan was president. as you did not note and i did earlier in the show, one of the buses sent by texas governor
greg abbott dropped off about 50 migrants in front of the vice president's residence, including a 1-month-old baby. there isn't any heads up being given to mayor adams, you just heard from him, or the individuals on martha's vineyard. i get they're trying to send a message, trying to get the attention, but isn't there a degree of trolling going on here? do you really have no issue with using human beings, a 1-month-old baby, little kids to make a political point like this? >> you have to put it in perspective of what's happening at the southern border right now. this is every single day thousands of individuals coming across with babies. they're coming into those states. that's governors are facing that not just in terms of 50 of them. they're talking hundreds, if not thousands per day. do any of us like the situation that we're in? absolutely not. as a matter of fact, i would suspect that the individuals in
the southern states that are trying to find a way to get the attention of the administration would love to have other alternatives to them. it's been 606 days since joe biden took office, and this problem has done nothing except continue to develop. this is a national problem, and yet these governors along the southern borders are the ones faced with trying to address it. it's not just 50 of these individuals coming across. it's thousands, and it's on a daily basis. >> of course, the immigration laws in this country do allow people to come to this country to seek asylum. it seems to me that the larger solution that needs to happen here -- and i don't know that you would disagree -- is a comprehensive immigration bill that would include border security and perhaps in order for there to be a compromise, a pathway to citizenship for people who have been here for decades. in the more than 20 years i've been in this town, i've seen people like president george w. bush, senator graham and senator
marco rubio trying to get immigration work down. every time they were defeated by house republicans who wouldn't go along with a compromise. would you support restarting bipartisan negotiations to try to finally fix this broken immigration system? >> those discussions are on going in the united states senate. in fact, the last time that there was a hard push was in 2017. myself and senator angus king co-sponsored the measure together on behalf of a bipartisan group. we got 54 votes on the senate at that time. that included addressing the folks that have been brought here through no fault of their own, the dreamers. we addressed chain migration. we addressed a pathway to citizenship over an extended number of years. we thought we had a pretty good approach. nothing has happened during this administration. yes, would we like to step forward again and try an approach again?
absolutely. do we have to address it? yes. do we have to have border security before anything else can happen? we've got to be able to defend that border. we've got to be able to make a border that actually works. otherwise, why should people pay any attention to the laws that we've got? what good would it do to reform them if we're not going to enforce them? let's turn to abortion, because your republican colleague, senator lindsey graham introduced a bill that would ban abortion nationwide after 15 weeks. do you support the bill? >> no. i think right now we should allow the states to explore the different possibilities about the appropriate way. here in south dakota we have one which is -- i actually signed into law when i was governor back in 2005, 2006. i think the individual states will come up with a multiple, a whole lot of different ideas about how to appropriate discuss abortion in general. then i think there will be a consensus over a period of years. at this point to have congress step back in and tell all the states we know better than them how to handle this is probably not the right direction to go.
we actually looked before the last decision, we looked as a group of us at trying to ban any abortion past 20 weeks. we weren't successful at that time. i don't think any proposal today would be successful in the house and the senate. i think a better approach probably will be to allow the states to work through this and to find the appropriate language on a state-by-state basis and to find that common ground. after that maybe congress steps in again. at this point i think the states are in better shape to explore and to find the right direction on a state-by-state basis. >> you're on the senate foreign relations committee. the top republican on the house intelligence committee, congressman mike turner of ohio, told me he does not think the u.s. should swap convicted russian arms dealer in exchanged for jailed americans in russia, paul whelan and brittney griner. he thinks viktor bout is too dangerous. do you agree or do you think the
u.s. should be willing to make the swap? >> i'm on the armed services committee and also on the foreign relations committee. we have not had a classified discussion about what the impact would be. i know this is up to the president to make up his mind and we probably won't have a say in it. i'm going to withhold judgment at this point. i don't mind being critical of the administration, but i don't want to be critical of the administration on their decision-making process without having all the facts in front of me. >> all right. senator mike rounds of south dakota, good to see you, sir. thank you so much for joining us today. >> thank you, sir. you are right now looking at video of president and first lady biden arriving at the reception for heads of state at buckingham palace. tomorrow the bidens all of the world leaders will attend the funeral. you can see special coverage of that tomorrow morning starting at 5:00 a.m. eastern. until then, thank you so much for spending your sunday morning
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