tv CNN Newsroom CNN July 8, 2009 3:00pm-4:00pm EDT
in the meantime, yesterday, the president went on tv, again, trying to put the vote behind him saying it is over. the opposition and their supporters saying it is not the leaders with the joint statement yesterday condemning the elections. >> you guys are on it. your national conversation begins right now with rick sanchez. rick? now, the investigation. what killed michael jackson? we have startling new information. sarah palin talks to cnn. is she fishing or cutting bait? literally. >> it's not a matter of retreating or quitting. cnn reporter embedded with u.s. forces in afghanistan. we will take you behind the front lines and watch your back when checking in during your summer vacation.
the video, all vacationers need to see on this national conversation for wednesday, july 8th, 2009. hello, again, everybody. i'm rick sanchez with this, the next generation of news. this is a conversation. it is not a speech. it is your turn to get involved. you heard me mention that police reached out and told us they are going to be holding a news conference during our hour where they are going to tell us definitively, one would think, whether steve mcnair actually was killed by his girlfriend or whether perhaps there was a third party involved. there is mcnair and sahel kazemi as well. he was found with four shots. she with one, to the head, the
gun. semi automatic was found underneath her leaving many to believe this was a murder suicide. that has not yet been confirmed by police. there is a lot to talk about here. motives, for example. we are going to be all over this. again, as soon as we can take you live to tennessee and bring you this update from police, you will see it right here, exclusively on cnn. meanwhile, once again, i want to focus your attention on what our troops are trying to achieve in afghanistan. this is important, folks. straight to it, let's do it. dave? look at these pictures. this is afghanistan, direct from the battlefield in helmand province. united states marines on patrol in the dust and the hot sun. i have news about their progress and about what the commanding general says he wished was different and about a u.s. service member that died there as well. that brings the total to nine
those are our guys heading out. we thought you would want to see it without comment. that's what it looks like in southwest afghanistan today. it is worth noting that those pictures were provided to us by the defense department. of the nine members of the armed forces killed so far there since monday, the latest died today while on patrol in the far west barack province. also, these words today from the one star general who is now commanding the u.s. led fight against the taliban. here it is. quoting from him by phone in helmand province, brigadier general, larry nicholson, says, i am not going to sugar koet this. the makt of the matter is, we don't have enough afghan forces. identify like more. he is talking about the 650
troops from afghanistan fighting along the u.s. marines. let's bring to you someone who is embedded there with the province. atia. >> hi, rick, how are you? >> let me start by asking you about this comment from the general which makes me wonder why it is so difficult. we are eight years into this now. why is it so difficult, eight years into this war, to find suitable afghan troops to fight along with the u.s. forces? >> reporter: when you look at u.s. soldiers and u.s. marines, you see pride in the u.s. flag. we have to remember that in afghanistan, it has been 30 years of destruction and destruction of a nation, not just country itself. there is divisions among the people. the people of afghanistan are used to fighting each other, even. there are divisions within the
ethnicities. they are not thinking of protecting each other as something they want to do. the afghan national army has been considered a success story when it comes to many of the provinces in afghanistan, more successful than the afghan national police. at least the people of afghanistan have some sort of respect for the army. it is going to take time to build that nationalism. also, to build that trust. you have men of different ethnicities working together trying to protect the nation when just a couple years ago, they were fighting each other. >> answer this. i think a lot of americans would want to know. are the afghans behind us?
do they want to really see this thing through? do they want to kick the taliban out of their country? >> reporter: the majority of the afghan people want peace. they are tired of fighting. they are tired of seeing their families die and their children die. yes, they want peace. sometimes they actually have to turn to the taliban. as i mentioned, the afghan national armies a sign of success but the afghan national committees weren't. they are telling me they would turn to the taliban protection from the police. they did turn to the taliban. the only day of giving some sort of stability in their life, even though it is stability out of fear. >> well, that's good to hear. you know, a lot of americans
don't want what we've experienced in iraq to be repeated in afghanistan. certainly, a lack of enthusiasm on the par of the pop last as we saw in many ways in iraq, seeing that again in afghanistan would certainly be demoralizing, not only for our troops there but for many americans here watching it from a far. atia, you are doing a great job. my thanks to you. i appreciate it. that bomb was smuggled into security buildings before it was detonated. speaking of security, i have some surveillance video i want to show you right now. take a look at this. a florida couple at a motel in delaware getting robbed and beaten. how they did it and the warning it represents for all of us, especially if you are planning a summer vacation. you may want to watch this.
you really may want to watch this. we are awaiting a news conference with police in nashville, tennessee as a for mentioned by me in the beginning of this newscast on the murder of arguably one of the best quarterbacks the nfl has seen in the last ten years. stay with us. we'll be all over it when it happens. you will see it here live, guaranteed. kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing... gecko vo: ...but i do work hard, mind you. gecko vo: first rule of "hard work equals success." gecko vo: that's why geico is consistently rated excellent or better in terms of financial strength. gecko vo: second rule: "don't steal a coworker's egg salad, 'specially if it's marked "the gecko." come on people. mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help?
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palin, referring to the governor of alaska, palin is fishing and cutting bait. >> yeah, funny. we will be all over that story in a little bit. we did get an interview with the governor. she was good enough to grant us that. you will see it here. i want you to look at some undercover video. keep in mind, this is video from a building that's supposed to be heavily protected, especially post 9/11. this is a man going through security at a level four federal building carrying bomb-making supplies, not fake supplies, real supplies. he is an investigator with government accounting office. in fact, i want you to watch this. yeah, yeah. see that. that's the explosion that occurred when they put all the supplies together that he carried through to show what guards were letting through.
do you think security may be too lacks in some of these buildings, some of these federal buildings? reports found failure like this one at ten different buildings. we welcome you to watch and comment. up next, though, did sarah palin commit political suicide. it is not far from a direct quote that comes from her and you are going to hear it for yourself because she speaks to a cnn correspondent who tracked her down while fishing and cutting bait. you will see that when we come back. stay with us. having the right tools is crucial to being able to manage your diabetes properly. it's very important for me to uh check my blood sugar before i go on stage. being on when i'm feeling low can be like a rollercoaster. it does at times feel like my body is telling me to do one thing...
when i returned from the campaign trail, i am trying for those months to not allow the distractions to sometimy or paralyze our administration. tns, pretty tough. >> is this your unconditional way of announcing you are going to run for president in 2012? >> as i said, i do not need a title, nobody does to effect
political change. >> reporter: political office? >> i can't see me being totally out of public service because that is within me. it is the way i am wired, to desire to help. >> are you ever going to run for president? >> are you ruling it out? >> all options will keep on continuing to be on the table as they have been for me my entire life. i am not going to close any door that may be open for me out there. all options are on the table. for now, i want to help other people in or out of office, don't care what party they are in if they are willing to fight for what is right, smaller, smarter gorse, energy independence, national security, those things that i believe in. i will fight for other people who can help effect the change in those areas. >> that's sarah palin in her own words. obviously, some of you on twitter and myspace and facebook not so kind to her since she made this decision on friday. many of those, conservatives, some who have been the toughest
on her for quitting which she denies. >> palin cannot prove political stamina or experience shall knowledge. supporters march in honduras for ousted president zelaya. how many are honduran? are some of these venezuelans who have been infiltrating, snuck in? now, the questions that are still not answered as well. over what killed michael jackson. that's right, a day after the memorial, we have received new information. there is also an interview with jackson's dermatologist that you probably should hear if you are interested at all in this story where he is asked, point blank, if he is jackson's children's
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i mentioned this at the top of the newscast. it probably bears repeating for those of you who didn't hear it. we have received word from authorities in nashville, tennessee, that probably within 15 or 20 minutes or so, they are going to be holding a news conference to announce what gives with the situation having to do with steven mcnair, the quarterback, the nfl quarterback who played for so many years, in fact, was mvp three times in the nfl. we are hoping to get a decision definitive decision as to whether this was a homicide by itself or a murder suicide specifically. as soon as this happens, you will hear it right here. we are checking on it with our affiliates and our sources in the area. we will turn that around. stay tuned.
meanwhile, i have something else to show you from that security investigation that i was talking about earlier. this is a security guard that we are looking at there. see him in the picture. he is sleeping, sleeping, at a level four federal building. so many of you have been writing me with your twitters, your tweets and your myspace and facebook. he was fired for this, by the way. get this. he was upset that he was fired. so he sued the federal protective services. he says they failed to train him properly on the use of x-ray machines. now, what the heck does that have to do with sleeping? we don't know. get this. he won. he won the suit. here is another example, by the way. no video to show you on this one that we have been gathering throughout the day. a female investigator placed an infant in a baby carrier.
the guard allowed the baby, the baby in the carrier, to go through the x-ray machine. the guard wasn't paying attention. the good news for the baby is and for the guard, i suppose, the machine was not on. the machine was not on when the baby went through it or it would have harmed the baby. we'll be following this. a little later on, mike brooks is going to be joining me and talking about why possibly security is as lacks as these incidents seem to suggest it is. stay with us. people notice my love for animals. my smile. my passion for teaching. my cool car. people notice i'm a good friend and a good listener. people notice that i'm a good boss. people notice my love of nature. people notice i can fix anything. (announcer) thanks to miracle-ear what people don't notice about you is your hearing aid because, look closely, our hearing aids are nearly invisible. our exclusive line of open fit products
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a household name for better hearing, miracle-ear. what will your miracle sound like? call 1-800-769-9112 to schedule your free hearing test or for a free information kit with complete details about hearing loss and how we can help you. call 1-800-769-9112 to take one of these easy steps toward better hearing. that's 1-800-769-9112 call now! i welcome you back. i'm rick sanchez here at the world headquarters of cnn. no question there are very important questions that many americans want answers. without those answers, the story still seems incomplete. for example, did michael jackson father his children?
or did he actually get somebody else to do it? is that somebody else his dermatologist? a man named arnold klein? here now, i want you to listen to this. dr. klein is asked this question about whether he is or isn't on good morning america. >> i can tell you to the best of my knowledge, i am not the father of these children. if push comes to shove but to the best of my knowledge, i am not the father of these children. >> debbie rowe, who is the children's biological mother and jackson's second wife, as you know, used to work for klein. also, dr. klein will be appearing on "larry king live" at 9:00 p.m. eastern in a prime time exclusive. here is another question for the doctor. did he prescribe pain killers for michael jackson? klein says that he did not. cnn has now learned that there
welcome back. i'm rick sanchez. you know how sometimes things change because so many things are going on at once. i mentioned that i was going to bring the latest on this new revelation about what michael jackson's body says about his possible death and how it was found. some of the marks that were found, for example. we are going to put that in the
next block. i want to talk to you about this now, another story that this show has been all over for quite some time now. is hugo chavez trying to pour gasoline on the fire that is the honduran coup. we connect you with what's important right now in latin america. i want to start with what secretary of state, hillary clinton said yesterday after meeting with ousted president zelaya. she says he will now meet with the interim president, roberto micheletti. a meeting that's going to be hosted by him. oscar arias, the president of costa rica, who knows diplomacy
very well. he has won a nobel peace prize back in the 1980s for brokering peace. he is considered credible by most. hovering in the background on this story is hugo chavez, who wants hon do youriduras to take turn and he wants zelaya back in. some hondurans see him as a pickup pet. would he send some of his own people, venezuelans, into honduras to infiltrate the protests. would he mess with the affairs of another sovereign country. this woman, in venezuela, said she was asked to do just that and she says, there are thousands of others who have also been asked to do the same thing.
[ speaking in spanish ] that's amazing. cnn's international correspondent, carl benhall has been all over this. let me start you off with a reaction to what we have just seen. a woman saying as a venezuelan, i am going asked to go over there. have you, tharere on the ground seen any evidence of ven ez way lanes infiltrating these
prozelaya protests by honduran. >> reporter: you have to understand the climate. there are deep social divisions. that lays open the field of these claims and counterclaims. some seem wild and others aimed at scare among gerring. personally, and i know the ven iz way lanes very well, i have not seen any signed of ven ez way lanes or nick ar ago wans at the protests. we have in in the thick and in the middle. i haven't seen anything along those lines. >> let me ask this of you as a follow-up if i can. how is venezuela's hugo chavez regarding there in honduras? how does he factor into this equation? >> reporter: i think right now, given the climate in all of latten america, no the just hon tour ras, it is very difficult to separate hugo chavez physically or as a symbol from
any of the politics going on in latin america. on the one hand, you have the business and political elite that have traditionally ruled the roost in latin america. even though leftist presidents have been elected, business and the economy is still largely run by those in generations of power. they are very much in fear of mr. chavez and anybody who tries to cope his leftist style socialist policies. on the other hand, you have the full majority. across latin america, two thirds of the population lives below the poverty line. they see him as a symbol of something to be imitated so that they can get a little bit bigger share of the pie, rick. >> it sounds like it depends on who you ask. the poorer they are, the more apt they are to be following hugo chavez. karl, good job as usual. >> i want to bring in christina,
direct for for the latin american and caribbean center at florida university there in miami. professor, thanks for being with us. how important is this for the obama administration? here you have not only the president of the united states but secretary of state hillary clinton really trying to come up with some settlement on this, a settlement that ends up being peaceful for the people of honduras. >> good afternoon to everyone. thank you for having me here. to answer your question, i think that for the united states and for the obama administration, of course, is what's happening in honduras is important for two reasons. one, because it is a president. even though honduras is a very small country and it is the second or third poorest country in the hemisphere, it doesn't have a strategic and economic
weight in the hemisphere or in the overall international relations of the united states. it is an example. military coops in latin america have been historically a staple. fortunately, in the last 20 years or 30 years or so, we thought that they had become something of the past and that we wouldn't be witnessing new ones. >> but we are. by the way, some people would argue whether this was a coup. after all, president zelaya wasn't exactly behaving saintly while in office. a lot of folks are saying he had gone too far. let me ask you this question. do you think micheletti, the president who has been put there now, will let zelaya, seen here in this cowboy hat, rea sum power in the country? if so, under what conditions?
>> micheletti? >> they arrive to some kind of arrangement. zelaya has six months to go in any event or had six months to go in any event. there are elections in november. there are different ways of setting a calendar for the election, setting an agenda for the political campaign, allowing zelaya to come for a while. there are different kinds of arrangements that can be found. >> i will tell you that it sounds like they are going to have to get some kind of guarantees from both of them. certainly, a guarantee from zoo
lie zelaya that he is going to honor the constitution. let's see if secretary of state hillary clinton can make that happen tomorrow in this meeting. it certainly seems like it would be good for the region and certainly good for the people of honduras as well. we have ten seconds if you wanted to make one other point. >> my next point would be that there is an important honduran community here in the united states and the future of that country is directly linked to the economy of many locales in this country to begin with, new orleans and miami. >> we thank you, professor, for taking time from florida international university to take us through this. by the way, we have got a picture, i think, we can put up of a news conference that's about to take place. we told you moments ago there will be a developing story going on out of nashville, tennessee. quarterback, steve mcnair's mysterious death. some have thought this possibly could be a murder suicide but,
again, but, police have not confirmed that. are they about to confirm that at any minute and give us more details about how he died? the news conference, any moment, we'll have it for you as it happens. you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help? yeah. i'll contact emergency services and stay with you. you okay? yeah. onstar. standard for one year on 14 chevy models.
i am talking to him. that is a picture of a paid yum where any moment now police in nashville, tennessee, are going to come out and tell us more about the strange death of steve mcnair with four gunshots, two to his head and two to his chest and the woman right next to him with the gun underneath her, was this a murder suicide or was it not? really, only police know at this point. meanwhile, on our twitter board, we have been getting a lot of comments from all kinds. look at this one. i thought this was kind of interesting. thousands and thousands of people take a cnn tour from all over the world. this person just took the cnn tour and probably right there back behind me. just left the cnn studio tour. really fun and exciting, got to
see rick sanchez from cnn too. a lot of folks on twitter have been talking about the michael jackson case, arguing back and forth months themselves, as i look at the pages, about whether we are following the story too much, whether they want to see another michael jackson story or whether they don't want to see another michael jackson story. it is about 50/50 actually. but there is this. this michael jackson story. you and i have heard for weeks now reports suggesting that michael jackson was hooked on medications only administered usually during surgery with the use of an i.v. needle. well, now, cnn has talked to a source that says that jackson's body did have track marks, was as white as a ghost when it was found and did have veins in his arms that appeared to have collapsed completely. this is where the news about michael jackson's untimely death now picks up with the investigation into what really
happened to him. and this report by cnn's randi kaye. >> we have a gentlemen here that needs help. he has stopped breathing. >> reporter: cnn has now learned disturbing new details about what precisely police investigators found when they answered the 911 call from jackson's house 12 days ago. a source involved with the investigation tells us that jackson had, quote, numerous track marks on his arm. and that those marks, quote, could certainly be consistent with the regular i.v. use of a drug like diprivan. diprivan is the powerful sedative xhont used in anesthesia in a hospital. a nurse who had work for jackson told cnn he had begged her for diprivan a few months ago so he could sleep. our sources can't say if this caused the track marks on his arms. some of the marks appeared fresh. others, older.
in fact, some of the newest marks could have within caused when emergency medical personnel rushed into the house and used their own i.v.s in an effort to save him. the source would not confirm if diprivan had been found with jackson. he told us numerous bottles of prescription medication had been found in jackson's $100,000 a month rented mansion. he described them as, quote, dangerous drugs. similar to those found in a hospital setting. that's as far as he would go. as for jackson's body, the source said he had never seen anything like it in decades of investigative work. he described it as, quote, lilly white, from head to toe. was it caused by the disease jackson said he had? we don't know. another source with knowledge of the case described jackson's body as having, quote, paper white skin, as white as a white t-shirt. he also told me his scalp was bald, that the pop star had no hair, that may have been a result of injuries jackson
received when his hair caught fire while making this pepsi ad years ago. this source also said jackson's veins were, quote, collapsed in both arms suggesting frequent intravenous drug use. his final note, the body was emaceated. despite the vigor he showed on stage during his final rehearsal just 36 hours earlier. randi kaye, cnn, los angeles. president obama, while in italy for the gh summit takes time to see earthquake damage in l laquila. >> here is the question. given the awful and embarrassing
press that ber leus sko any is getting, what does president obama have to say about him? mike brooks is going to be taking us through what's going on with the steve mcnair investigation? we are minutes away from police unveiling what new information they are ready to reveal. stay with us. it will happen as you watch. the price on the tag is the price you pay. get a 2009 pontiac vibe for $13,708 after all offers. or get 0% apr for 60 months on most 2009 pontiac models! all are backed with the best coverage in america, including a 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. get some excitement while you still can, during the pontiac summer closeout. visit pontiacdealer.com
ready? we want to hear about michael jackson says sandy who is tweeting us right now. just 24/7. there are other things happening in the world. we promised that we would be taking you to nashville, tennessee, for the decision on the mcnair case. let's take that live now. >> lieutenant pat taylor, captain david kimhoff and the two investigators assigned to this case, detectives charles robinson and norris harkington. >> chief? >> thank you, don. thank you all for being here. withen the last two hours, i had a chance to have a conversation with mrs. mcnair and share with her an update on what we think the investigation tells us to this point which i'll do with the community now. after nearly four days of intensive investigation that includes laboratory test results and other methods, the police department has concluded that steve mcnair was murdered by sahel kazemi and killed herself with a single gunshot wound to her head. while we may never know what
exactly drove miss kazemi to make that decision, the totality of the evidence clearly points to a murder/suicide. it is also important to note that diagrams of the exact body of kazemi and other information about the shooting sequences in fact is an error. based upon the appearance of the crime scene, evidence collected, autopsy findings, laboratory results and an incredible amount of work by our investigative team, there's no doubt we believe now at this time that mcnair was seated on the sofa and likely was asleep and we believe that kazemi shot him in the right temple, then shot him twice in the chest and then shot him a final time in the left temple. kazemi positioned herself next to mcnair on the sofa and shot herself in the right temple and expired. today, we received preliminary
investigation from the tbi that the five shell casings recovered match the weapon that was purchased by kazemi last thursday. that the five bullets have been recovered and they, too, fired by the barrel of that weapon. gunshot residue evidence, trace evidence was found on kazemi's left hand, not enough far conclusive result. and there was no gunshot residue evidence on mr. mcnair's hands. because the lack of any evidence of a struggle or defensive wounds to mcnair, his physical position on the sofa, the trajectory of the bullets and the wound pattern, we still believe it's that kazemi shot mr. mcnair and he didn't know. over the last five to seven days of kazemi's life, our investigation is learning that she had become very distraught and on two occasions told friends and associates that her life was all messed up and that she was going to end it all. miss kazemi had a vehicle that
she owned while thes ka laid was purchased we think with mr. mcnair, we believe she was paying payments on the escalade, paying payments on a kia and the roommate about to leave effectively double the room -- her mortgage. her rent payment, i should say. we also have reason to believe that kazemi recently learned before this day that she believed mcnair was involved with another woman and that, too, participated in her state of mind, we think. as it relates to the discovery of the bodies and mr. wayne kneelly's actions, analysis of preliminary cell phone records and reinterview indicates that he has been in fact truthful. while it is unusual that there was a 44-minute delay between the discovery of the body and the first phone call, it is not unheard of. again, i would caution there is no evidence whatsoever that any of the crime scene and the bodies had been tampered with or
moved or altered in any way. at this time, the police department still has remaining issues to look at. there are videos of the area around the condo that we're looking at and the videos we have seen so far do not give us any information to contradict the conclusions. we also want to remind anyone in the community if they have any additional information to please contact our detectives and we'll provide that information. finally, any death is tragic. and the deaths that we are talking about today are tragic to the families of all involved and tragic to our community. with that, i've concluded my formal comments. are there any comments? >> is there a suicide note? >> no. >> was there anything that you've been able to determine that pushed her to violence towards him, that particular night? >> as we discussed, we think in the last five to seven days of her life many things were stressing her. one of the stressors was whether
or not her relationship was unraveling with mr. mcnair. we can't put ourselves in the mind of people who do these terribly ir relational acts but we believe there's evidence she was spinning out of control. >> had he made promises to her about the relationship? >> i don't know that. >> what about -- >> seems a factor and to be totally clear from the investigation? >> given all the investigation, the statements taken and physical evidence he is no longer a suspect. >> what about the -- [ inaudible ] >> we believe that was just her and the person she purchased it from. she had a -- she knew the gentleman she bought the gun from with a vehicle purchase and quite by serendipity he said he had a gun. they trance acted the deal around 5:00 at the dave and buster's area in the parking lot and that pretty much is where
that ends. i know that the atf commented on that issue. >> is there -- no one of this woman -- >> i don't know any of that. >> any indication of -- precipitated this crime? >> we found no drugs at the scene of the crime. >> any evidence? >> -- together? what did she decide -- romantically -- >> we have reason to believe kazemi witnessed someone leaving the condominium several days before. we have reason to believe that kazemi attempted to follow that person and or at other times tried to follow that person to learn who they were. the detectives are of the opinion that she believed from a conversation with friends and others that she thought mcnair was involved in another relationship and just recently learned that. >> how long -- >> the woman -- >> she's been interviewed.
>> how long -- [ inaudible ] >> we're not exactly sure. [ inaudible ] did you ever seriously consider -- [ inaudible ] >> no. i'm very sure that our detectives from the very beginning didn't rule out any possibility. the crime scene itself is a technique and a investigative strategy that's very well done and our team did a very good job and the crime scene tells us a lot of what we know today and from there other interviews, other information did not change what we originally saw in the crime scene. we wanted to wait until we had the tbi results to have the science tell us that the pellets and casings were the same and share the information with the coroner's office. again, you know, it is a bit unfortunate that there were widely spread diagrams that were not factual that may influence peoples' decisions or thinking.
there was a widely spread order of shot sequences that is not based in fact at all that we now want to make sure is overcome in the mind of the community and we had those conversations with the coroner's office today. >> -- shots that were fired -- [ inaudible ] >> it is difficult to know because we have no affirmation that anyone heard the shots. but we do think that based on what we know today and what we know about the scene and the evidence and the autopsy, the trajectory, we think it was four shots by miss kazemi against mr. mcnair and then once against herself. we don't know exactly the times. mr. mcnair's shots were likely very quick. [ inaudible ] that's more speculation than we know right now. we do know that she was clearly sending a message to people in the last seven to -- >> unbelievable development coming to us from the police there in nashville. mike brooks joining us now. she was, quote, spinning out of control according to the police.
possibly killed him while he was sleeping on the couch and there was still another woman involved. a third woman, second girlfriend. >> or she believed there was. >> she believed there was. unbelievable development. what do you make of this? >> talking about a crime of passion, when you shoot somebody twice in the chest, once in the temple, twice in the chest an then again in the other temple, that is -- that is someone who is seriously, seriously upset. >> i'm just -- >> wants to make sure that that person is dead. >> i'm struck by the fact that he was asleep which means they probably didn't argue because usually people don't stick around and take a nap after a heated arlgment. >> usually not. usually not. >> if he had suspicions -- >> maybe he brushed it off. there's a lot of speculation to make because was he about to end a relationship with her? did she see this woman? does he have a second girlfriend? we can't say that for sure. i'm telling you what.